Problems cannot be solved by the level of awareness that created them.

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. … Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Well ok whatever the fuck. Love drives out hate. Ok.

Problem is, love dont do jack shit to evil. And there are some evil motherfuckers out there. You know what works on evil? It aint hate, its stone cold motherfucking violence.

Yo man I'm pretty sure the government is prepared for any kind of violence you throw at them right now. I mean they've got thousands of drones and human slaves. Best thing right now is to stay under the radar and inform more people. We don't have the numbers to do anything except end up in prison/dead right now, which is why they'd only enjoy violence.

Information is our greatest weapon. Violence only legitimizes them, and would only serve to divide us, as many cannot agree with violence besides the most basic of self-defense. The state, or whatever force you deem, has a monopoly on violence, we can not play that game.

I'm pretty sure the government is prepared for any kind of violence you throw at them right now.

Nope. Not if literally EVERY civilian on the planet moves against them. Not if that happens. I know it's not likely, unfortunately, but they would have NO chance against that.

Best thing right now is to stay under the radar and inform more people.

Problem is that there comes a point where the ONLY way you will be able to inform more people is to no longer be "under" the radar. You have to be up and open about it eventually or the movement won't succeed.

We don't have the numbers to do anything except end up in prison/dead right now

And this, of course, is the problem. Too many are brainwashed and brain dead.

If you don't mind me asking, what's evil?

Really?

Here's an example :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8PMZB1bvZE&feature=player_embedded#!

Im sure you can find millions of others. Love aint going to do shit to the type of people who would do that type of shit.

I'm not saying go out and hug them and be ignorant or whatever, but I'm saying that violence will not cure it. Who would you kill? Some worse fuckhead will guarantee take their place, and many will be instantly turned off on the message because violence was used. Knowledge is our key here, did violence somehow wake you up?

Concious awareness or the acquisition of greater understanding and knowledge. We as a collective organism have to enlighten ourselves together, or we will surely perish. This human organism is diseased and distanced. The ego has spread amongst us like a cancer.

Actually, you're incorrect. Violence would cure it.

If I found out some sick fucknut did something like that to my family, I would hunt them down, and chop their fucking heads off.

The only thing that keeps fucked up sociopaths like that in check, is the threat of violence against them. As I said, they are fucking evil. And you have to chop the fucking head off of evil, to make other evil understand that you're not going to put up with their shit.

Agreed to an extent and a certain level.

Seems both is the key. Lots of knowledge, as well as the knowledgeable and effective use of violence if and when necessary seems to be what will work. Someone who thinks only and doesn't act is useless. Someone who acts (violently) only and doesn't think is equally useless and destructive.

Both approaches need to be effectively mixed. Those that advocate only one or the other exclusively are both missing the point.

War stole the future, Peace is for bitches ~ El-P

All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State. -- Albert Camus

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We have moved past predator and prey, wolf or sheep, we are human beings. Including those who perpetrate such "evils" against us. As I asked the person above, were you awakened through violence? Or were your questioning ways brought upon by knowledge and information? These are our weapons.

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What the fuck man, your not even making a point. There is no sheeple, that does not exist, there are human beings. Sheeple is just some word that you are using as an ad-hominem attack to classify a group of people, and what that even entails you are not listing, just that it's bad and I'm it and your not. We, as in the human race, I don't know how else that could be taken seeing how I said "we are human beings."

You never did even answer my question, were you enlightened through violence, or through knowledge?

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I don't understand the first quote, and it doesn't really make sense in the line of conversation we are having. Perhaps giving it some context or something, and the bold is unnecessary. If anything, it helps prove my point that violence doesn't work, as violence shows itself after only being practiced on the children.

Also, as far as I'm aware, the people you mention are still biologically human beings. Are you not getting this somehow? People have been lied to, and sometimes they know they've been lied to, and other times, they never knew anything but the lie. But that doesn't make them any less human. If anything could be argued that some people aren't "human" it might by psychopath's, but then, that is merely an illness or a reaction to their environment, and is not the fault of that person. It's more than just the US as well, it's been throughout history, but violence is falling, it's no longer necessary for survival as it once was. And as one separates the imaginary barriers of race, religion, country, political affiliation, etc. and recognizes people for what they truly are, fellow human beings, the violence drops even further.

Also, once again, you still haven't answered me, what led you here? Was it violence, or was it knowledge?

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I'm not talking about Utopia's, I'm talking about modern day, never mentioned a perfect world or anything. My whole point I guess boils down to that violence is unproductive, at least for the goal of a better world/waking people up. As illustrated by even your own experience, that a violent action wasn't what "woke you up". Unless your goal is different, and I would love to hear how you think violence could help achieve either these goals or your own better. I would be actually interested to hear any situation where violence could perhaps be a "good thing" than in the strictest self-defense means.

Also, to clarify, I've enjoyed this conversation immensely, and don't want to seem like I'm attacking you, or anyone else. Through such discussions, we are better able to get an idea of what may or may not work, as well as fleshing out personal philosophies and such.

This thread was great. A classic encounter of fear and love. I am biased towards love because I am a living organism. Although, "fear" didn't make that many coherent arguments, it was entertaining nonetheless.

Tell that to the Colonials of the Revolutionary War.

We are in an incredibly different time than the Revolutionary War, and have not yet reached the levels to which the Revolutionary War was needed. Also, remember that such acts as the Tea Party, were non-violent, and nothing was stolen either. The pamphlets of Thomas Paine and others were the stepping stones that were necessary before such violent defense was needed. With the advent of a global communication network, and the ideas of Democracy, Liberty, and Individual Rights of Man so much more mainstream than the previous eras, such a conflict may be never needed. Personally, I don't know if I could be involved in such a war if it came to pass and would more likely take actions resembling Thich Quang Duc. But I would not disparage those who would fight to defend their family and friends from immedieate harm.

But we are a very long ways from such an event, as such full civil war would be nearly impossible to rationalize or to spin in the modern conversation from the State's point of View. Unless, violent revolutionaries (or a series of false flags) could convince the general populace that such actions were necessary for "protection".

One of my favorite quotes from Wizards: "Mommy why can't we win?" "They have guns and technology. We just have love."

I appreciate the sentiment, but IMO it is pretty doomed to failure. To use a drug metaphor, hate is unto cocaine as love is unto marijuana. Put up a crack-head against a pot-head in a straight-up fight, I think you can guess who wins.

That's an incorrect metaphor, because the war that is being waged is not happening on the physical level (on a gross scale), but is a war of culture, is a war for your mind. There is no they, there is only us.

There is no they, there is only us.

Heh. "We have met the enemy, and he is us." =Pogo

Well stated, sir. Doesn't change my mind, but boldly stated.

There is no they, there is only us.

"We're not listening to ourselves" - periphery

Solid. We must rise above, we must rid ourselves of the ego that urges us to seek revenge instead of listening to our mind, body, and spirit which would suggest to love. It would be hipocrisy to perpetuate ourselves in a cycle of fear.

That's why they assassinated him.

I recommend Malcolm X's autobiography to anyone who hasn't read it.

Truly inspiring.

Agreed.

Why do you consider Martin Luther King a "house-negro"?. Because he didn't promote violence?

That's an incorrect metaphor, because the war that is being waged is not happening on the physical level (on a gross scale), but is a war of culture, is a war for your mind. There is no they, there is only us.

What the fuck man, your not even making a point. There is no sheeple, that does not exist, there are human beings. Sheeple is just some word that you are using as an ad-hominem attack to classify a group of people, and what that even entails you are not listing, just that it's bad and I'm it and your not. We, as in the human race, I don't know how else that could be taken seeing how I said "we are human beings."

You never did even answer my question, were you enlightened through violence, or through knowledge?

Concious awareness or the acquisition of greater understanding and knowledge. We as a collective organism have to enlighten ourselves together, or we will surely perish. This human organism is diseased and distanced. The ego has spread amongst us like a cancer.

We are in an incredibly different time than the Revolutionary War, and have not yet reached the levels to which the Revolutionary War was needed. Also, remember that such acts as the Tea Party, were non-violent, and nothing was stolen either. The pamphlets of Thomas Paine and others were the stepping stones that were necessary before such violent defense was needed. With the advent of a global communication network, and the ideas of Democracy, Liberty, and Individual Rights of Man so much more mainstream than the previous eras, such a conflict may be never needed. Personally, I don't know if I could be involved in such a war if it came to pass and would more likely take actions resembling Thich Quang Duc. But I would not disparage those who would fight to defend their family and friends from immedieate harm.

But we are a very long ways from such an event, as such full civil war would be nearly impossible to rationalize or to spin in the modern conversation from the State's point of View. Unless, violent revolutionaries (or a series of false flags) could convince the general populace that such actions were necessary for "protection".

Actually, you're incorrect. Violence would cure it.

If I found out some sick fucknut did something like that to my family, I would hunt them down, and chop their fucking heads off.

The only thing that keeps fucked up sociopaths like that in check, is the threat of violence against them. As I said, they are fucking evil. And you have to chop the fucking head off of evil, to make other evil understand that you're not going to put up with their shit.

Seems both is the key. Lots of knowledge, as well as the knowledgeable and effective use of violence if and when necessary seems to be what will work. Someone who thinks only and doesn't act is useless. Someone who acts (violently) only and doesn't think is equally useless and destructive.

Both approaches need to be effectively mixed. Those that advocate only one or the other exclusively are both missing the point.