If it were possible to correlate every vote to a voter, it would be impossible to commit voter fraud - which is why votes are anonymous, they're easier to steal that way.
Or because when you have a way to know every voters vote it's much much easier to get rid of people that don't vote the way you want.
Stop living in fear, it enables those who would keep you fearful.
Anonymous voting isn't perfect and a receipt would be a good idea but removing it to remove the possibility of fraud is shooting yourself in the foot.
I have never once feared anyone knowing how I vote, and apparently most of the public doesn't either. How much intimidation do people face over campaign signs?
You don't live in fear of that because you're lucky enough to not need to because you are protected with anonymous voting.
You are the one living in fear. You would remove all the protections and benefits awarded to us with anonymous voting over the fear that someone might tamper with votes. Both ways open up the possibility of vote tampering mine just doesn't include physical violence as a means.
You don't live in fear of that because you're lucky enough to not need to because you are protected with anonymous voting.
And I don't live in fear of tigers because I have this anti-tiger rock! Doubt me? Well, I've never seen any tigers around here, have you???
Both ways open up the possibility of vote tampering mine just doesn't include physical violence as a means.
Hiding problems away in the dark doesn't solve them. Putting them in the sunlight does. It's very hard to intimidate voters when everyone knows that you're trying to intimidate voters. It's very easy to steal an election when nobody knows who voted for what.
So because it's worse somewhere else, we can't ever expect it to improve here? Should I burn down my house and live in the dirt because someone, somewhere does?
You're afraid of people silently changing your vote while saying with absolute certainty that if those same people know who was voting what way they wouldn't do something to ensure they couldn't vote in a manner they don't agree with?
You go right ahead and bury your head in the sand.
It has improved here. It's called anonymous voting.
Ok since you seem to only be able to think on a national scale.
Say Gangster A wants the official thats in their pocket elected(or the one in the pocket of EvilCorp who is paying them). They send their thugs door to door in your neighbourhood to tell you who you are going to vote for. With non-anonymous voting they can then come back later and teach you a lesson for voting for the wrong person. With the receipt system they can make you provide a receipt showing you voted for their candidate. They don't care that vote tampering is illegal they are already gangsters.
The cure for vote tampering isn't removing the security of anonymous voting. It's providing more oversight on the polling stations and vote counting.
Say Gangster A wants the official thats in their pocket elected(or the one in the pocket of EvilCorp who is paying them). They send their thugs door to door in your neighbourhood to tell you who you are going to vote for. With non-anonymous voting they can then come back later and teach you a lesson for voting for the wrong person. With the receipt system they can make you provide a receipt showing you voted for their candidate. They don't care that vote tampering is illegal they are already gangsters.
Is this in England, where persons are unable to defend themselves against persons making threats?
It's providing more oversight on the polling stations and vote counting.
Which means nothing what-so-ever when the fix comes from inside.
Right so there are no gangs in the US and no one is ever intimidated into actions they don't agree with(protection schemes?).
Are you seriously that ignorant? I think not, you're just pretending now to try to draw out your point until I give up. Winning not by being right but by being so wrong your opponent gives up trying to talk with you. Thats a bad strategy btw.
Why couldn't they have it just register one thing and print out a receipt for something else? A receipt changes nothing at all. It's just as likely to be blamed on faulty software in either case.
Sixty percent of the country now supplies voters with optical scanners. To use them, voters shade in their choices on paper ballots (similar to how they would take an SAT test) before feeding it to the machines. These optical scanners, while not exactly a brand-new technology, are the state-of-the-art for both their accuracy in processing votes and their security against tampering.
But the same cannot always be said for the alternative, e-voting machines (direct recording electronic machines, or DREs), which are used in about 25 percent of the country. These are lined up in places like Georgia, Maryland, Utah, Nevada, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Texas.
E-voting machines come in three variants: push-button machines sporting a keypad; LCD touch-screens; and machines that use a rolling wheel to select and confirm a vote onscreen. All of these register votes on an electronic ballot. The absence of a paper trail, which is preserved by the optical scanners, has caused concerns since the inception of the machines.
My best friend works in the (casino) gaming industry and he constantly remarks on this simple fact OP brings to light. The level of security and detail involved in his job is ridiculously tight. Every move can be traced and tracked by the gaming commission. This is to prevent theft on any level.
Voting is a rigged game. They won't fix it because that would break it for Them. Imagine the chaos if chance was actually introduced into elections! I won't hold my breath in antici
EDIT: Interesting side note. According to my friend, he literally sits next to this dude at work. Literally. That dude. I was told his name.
Well if you consider slot machines generate revenue, which in turn pays for its regulation, as opposed to voting machines, which is 100% expense. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying.
Well, you could lower that expense but you'd end up with a more crooked product. All the companies competing for state voting contracts have to provide some sort of cost figures. Honest companies would lose out compared to crooked companies like Diebold and ES&S. Even if those companies spent lots of money putting back doors in their machines they would put out low figures to come in as the low bid and achieve their true goal of stealing democracy. In other words, as long as there are crooked players, there is no profit to be had in the voting machine industry. I'd rather pay much more to assure a true vote.
Simple. Sell ad space on the voting machines! Even better, tailor the ads for the way people vote. Democrats would see ads for Volvos, etc. Republicans for BMWs, etc.
Simple. Sell ad space on the voting machines! Even better, tailor the ads for the way people vote. Democrats would see ads for Volvos, etc. Republicans for BMWs, etc.
24 comments
24 [deleted] 2012-11-07
[deleted]
14 ChaosMotor 2012-11-07
If it were possible to correlate every vote to a voter, it would be impossible to commit voter fraud - which is why votes are anonymous, they're easier to steal that way.
6 haveyouconsideredthe 2012-11-07
Or because when you have a way to know every voters vote it's much much easier to get rid of people that don't vote the way you want.
Anonymous voting isn't perfect and a receipt would be a good idea but removing it to remove the possibility of fraud is shooting yourself in the foot.
1 ChaosMotor 2012-11-07
Stop living in fear, it enables those who would keep you fearful.
I have never once feared anyone knowing how I vote, and apparently most of the public doesn't either. How much intimidation do people face over campaign signs?
7 haveyouconsideredthe 2012-11-07
You don't live in fear of that because you're lucky enough to not need to because you are protected with anonymous voting.
You are the one living in fear. You would remove all the protections and benefits awarded to us with anonymous voting over the fear that someone might tamper with votes. Both ways open up the possibility of vote tampering mine just doesn't include physical violence as a means.
0 ChaosMotor 2012-11-07
And I don't live in fear of tigers because I have this anti-tiger rock! Doubt me? Well, I've never seen any tigers around here, have you???
Hiding problems away in the dark doesn't solve them. Putting them in the sunlight does. It's very hard to intimidate voters when everyone knows that you're trying to intimidate voters. It's very easy to steal an election when nobody knows who voted for what.
-1 haveyouconsideredthe 2012-11-07
Have you ever seen any other less fortunate countries elections before? Your responses lead me to believe you haven't.
2 ChaosMotor 2012-11-07
So because it's worse somewhere else, we can't ever expect it to improve here? Should I burn down my house and live in the dirt because someone, somewhere does?
0 haveyouconsideredthe 2012-11-07
You're afraid of people silently changing your vote while saying with absolute certainty that if those same people know who was voting what way they wouldn't do something to ensure they couldn't vote in a manner they don't agree with?
You go right ahead and bury your head in the sand.
It has improved here. It's called anonymous voting.
1 ChaosMotor 2012-11-07
Improved the ability to steal elections. Nothing more!
1 haveyouconsideredthe 2012-11-07
Ok since you seem to only be able to think on a national scale.
Say Gangster A wants the official thats in their pocket elected(or the one in the pocket of EvilCorp who is paying them). They send their thugs door to door in your neighbourhood to tell you who you are going to vote for. With non-anonymous voting they can then come back later and teach you a lesson for voting for the wrong person. With the receipt system they can make you provide a receipt showing you voted for their candidate. They don't care that vote tampering is illegal they are already gangsters.
The cure for vote tampering isn't removing the security of anonymous voting. It's providing more oversight on the polling stations and vote counting.
1 ChaosMotor 2012-11-07
Is this in England, where persons are unable to defend themselves against persons making threats?
Which means nothing what-so-ever when the fix comes from inside.
1 haveyouconsideredthe 2012-11-07
Right so there are no gangs in the US and no one is ever intimidated into actions they don't agree with(protection schemes?).
Are you seriously that ignorant? I think not, you're just pretending now to try to draw out your point until I give up. Winning not by being right but by being so wrong your opponent gives up trying to talk with you. Thats a bad strategy btw.
1 [deleted] 2012-11-07
[deleted]
1 haveyouconsideredthe 2012-11-07
Why couldn't they have it just register one thing and print out a receipt for something else? A receipt changes nothing at all. It's just as likely to be blamed on faulty software in either case.
2 Itheism 2012-11-07
Sixty percent of the country now supplies voters with optical scanners. To use them, voters shade in their choices on paper ballots (similar to how they would take an SAT test) before feeding it to the machines. These optical scanners, while not exactly a brand-new technology, are the state-of-the-art for both their accuracy in processing votes and their security against tampering.
But the same cannot always be said for the alternative, e-voting machines (direct recording electronic machines, or DREs), which are used in about 25 percent of the country. These are lined up in places like Georgia, Maryland, Utah, Nevada, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Texas.
E-voting machines come in three variants: push-button machines sporting a keypad; LCD touch-screens; and machines that use a rolling wheel to select and confirm a vote onscreen. All of these register votes on an electronic ballot. The absence of a paper trail, which is preserved by the optical scanners, has caused concerns since the inception of the machines.
Link
1 joseph177 2012-11-07
Either votes are worth less than a 1c candy, or you're on to something.
1 fahque650 2012-11-07
In California you get a receipt?
8 BrapAllgood 2012-11-07
My best friend works in the (casino) gaming industry and he constantly remarks on this simple fact OP brings to light. The level of security and detail involved in his job is ridiculously tight. Every move can be traced and tracked by the gaming commission. This is to prevent theft on any level.
Voting is a rigged game. They won't fix it because that would break it for Them. Imagine the chaos if chance was actually introduced into elections! I won't hold my breath in antici
EDIT: Interesting side note. According to my friend, he literally sits next to this dude at work. Literally. That dude. I was told his name.
2 hoppyfrog 2012-11-07
Don't mess with The Owl. HOOT!
2 garthock 2012-11-07
Well if you consider slot machines generate revenue, which in turn pays for its regulation, as opposed to voting machines, which is 100% expense. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying.
2 my_cat_joe 2012-11-07
Well, you could lower that expense but you'd end up with a more crooked product. All the companies competing for state voting contracts have to provide some sort of cost figures. Honest companies would lose out compared to crooked companies like Diebold and ES&S. Even if those companies spent lots of money putting back doors in their machines they would put out low figures to come in as the low bid and achieve their true goal of stealing democracy. In other words, as long as there are crooked players, there is no profit to be had in the voting machine industry. I'd rather pay much more to assure a true vote.
2 garthock 2012-11-07
Me too.
1 hoppyfrog 2012-11-07
Simple. Sell ad space on the voting machines! Even better, tailor the ads for the way people vote. Democrats would see ads for Volvos, etc. Republicans for BMWs, etc.
2 [deleted] 2012-11-07
Also-- when was the last time that you got incorrect bills from an ATM?
Machines CAN be made to function properly.
0 [deleted] 2012-11-07
[deleted]
2 joseph177 2012-11-07
They always win.
2 garthock 2012-11-07
Me too.
1 hoppyfrog 2012-11-07
Simple. Sell ad space on the voting machines! Even better, tailor the ads for the way people vote. Democrats would see ads for Volvos, etc. Republicans for BMWs, etc.