What exactly is the objective in Afghanistan? Especially in light of Bin Laden being dead?
28 2012-11-08 by [deleted]
I am also trying to avoid the question whether he was already dead or not, and whether or not the seal team six operation ever actually took place. I don't want to get derailed from that.
61 comments
29 renholder777 2012-11-08
Off the top of my head:
Strategic geolocation for military bases and nuclear deterrent armaments against Iran, Russia, Pakistan.
Opium production to subsidize said military incursion.
Huge deposits of lithium and other rare minerals valued in the trillions.
Perfect training ground for drone and other advanced weapons technology.
Good excuse for continuing insanely high defense budgets.
Exporting freedom and democracy...
3 destructifier 2012-11-08
Milk squirted out of my nose when I read the last one.
2 [deleted] 2012-11-08
[deleted]
1 Tenacity22 2012-11-08
Questions like that are exactly why this subreddit was created.
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
[deleted]
16 renholder777 2012-11-08
CIA Drug Trafficking is old, old news.
I believe the official explanation for our current plan to remain on the ground through 2014 is to aid the Afghani people in establishing a cohesive government and military capable of supporting itself and free from insurgents. If you read between the lines on that, it is to install a puppet government that will not collapse by democratic overthrow the second we withdraw our full occupational complement of troops. But even in that plan "withdrawal" does not mean we are going to leave. We are going to "withdraw" from Afghanistan like we "withdrew" from Iraq.
8 keymaster999 2012-11-08
Google afghan poppy production by year. Theres a great graph under images. In 2001, before we invaded, the taliban made it illegal to grow poppies in the country. Production plummeted. Then we invaded and 2002 numbers were majically back to normal. The graph is amazing.
Edit: here u go.
5 digger_ex_pat 2012-11-08
The CIA uses Opium profits to fund black budget projects.
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
[deleted]
5 joseph177 2012-11-08
To people in ghettos, which in turn creates more criminals, which in turn fuels a nice and plump prison industrial complex. It's the circle of life.
The people on top are on both sides of every war, including the war on drugs.
4 Psycon 2012-11-08
Just standard daily operation for the CIA. They do the same thing with cocaine to. This doc touches a little on the CIA's support of 'Freeway' Rick Ross.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyuBuT_7I4
2 [deleted] 2012-11-08
[deleted]
1 Psycon 2012-11-08
Glad to see other people interested in learning more about this stuff. Always glad to show people info I found to be really interesting and essential in formulating effective fact based beliefs and arguments against the established institutions ruining our world.
2 dominus_nox 2012-11-08
That's a great doc.
2 Psycon 2012-11-08
One of my favorites. It really gives you the big picture and all the evidence and testimonials needed to back it up rock solid.
3 WhoShotJR 2012-11-08
Here
2009: "the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country’s booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials."
1 chrisradcliffe 2012-11-08
Until he was killed for raising his media profile.
2 SplitFigure 2012-11-08
Here's a semi-related article describing the opium situation in Afghanistan. A good read IMO!
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/02/opium-wars/draper-text
1 digger_ex_pat 2012-11-08
They have (allow) drug dealers to farm it. They profit form basically protection money.
-1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
Why do they need Afghanistan to do that? Burma and Laos can easily satisfy US demand for opium and we don't even have to invade them.
0 renholder777 2012-11-08
But why compete with Taliban heroin when you don't have to?
-1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
Because it's a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to just let Burma keep doing it. Burma was ALREADY providing plenty of opium before we invaded Afghanistan. Half of that country is controlled by three drug kingpins.
3 renholder777 2012-11-08
Because Burma was only part of the opium production industry. It's easier and cheaper to own just Microsoft, but what if you could own Apple, too?
-1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
If it costs NOTHING to own Microsoft, and Apple costs hundreds of billions of dollars, it's a no-brainer to go with Microsoft.
4 renholder777 2012-11-08
But - you're not buying Apple with your own money. You're buying it with the tax dollars of the duped and the blood of dead soldiers. So, at least to the mind of a profiteer, you're getting both for free.
-1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
I'm buying it with money I could have otherwise spent on something else. So there is still an opportunity cost, even if it's not my money.
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
An opportunity cost to gain a monopoly on the most dangerous, addictive, oppressive and profitable drug trade in the history of man? Worth it. Besides, the opium was a bonus. See the other reasons for the war listed above.
1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
Yes, it makes no sense to incur an opportunity cost to obtain something that you could already obtain for free.
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
I don't think you've ever won Monopoly, have you...Sitting there with your one corner of green, hoping and praying for the dice to come your way.
1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
I'm talking about reality, not some fantasy board game. In REALITY Burma and Laos were already producing more than enough opium to keep the USA well supplied. In REALITY the CIA already had extensive control over that opium supply. In REALITY there was already a Laotian drug kingpin named Vang Pao living comfortably in Minneapolis, who had made his fortune moving opium into the US via CIA channels.
So in REALITY there was no need for the US government to expend resources to obtain something in ALREADY had.
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
In reality, we invaded Afghanistan and the poppy fields were sitting right there. It wasn't the reason, it was just another benefit.
1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
Yes, but clearly that can't be REASON we invaded because we already had all the opium we needed.
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
I just said that. However, now that we're there, entrenched and our opium with no Burmese overhead is flowing right out of US occupied fields, it is a reason to stay.
1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
So my point stands.
What "Burmese overhead?" We get Burmese opium for FREE. We don't have a forward military presence in Burma. Afghanistan cost us hundreds of billions of dollars to occupy. Burma costs us NOTHING.
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
Do you have a vested interest in Burmese opium? I guess I don't see what exactly we're arguing about. Whether or not it makes sense to you, we are involved in both areas of opium production. I think we both admit that. If you're saying its bad economic policy, I sort of think that pales in significance to being involved in the illegal drug trade in the first place. Whether it's Burma or Afghanistan or both, what's the difference? It's all corrupt, illegal, immoral and lining the pockets of all the wrong people to the detriment of the globe.
1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
I'm simply pointing out that opium want the reason we invaded Afghanistan.
One costs hundreds of billions of dollars, the other doesn't.
1 herpaderp2026 2012-11-08
He's just going to keep going. He's trolling. Ignore.
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
It's not their money though, it's people tax money that goes towards the defence budget. It's like private contractors reaping the benefits from war and paying nothing towards it except for probably some millions in pay offs to politicians.
1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
Then how the hell are they able to spend it?
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
How are they able to still have a defence budget over $1 trillion when people are starving on the streets? APATHY!
1 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
According to you they don't. It's not their money.
3 jmiggidy88 2012-11-08
Supposedly over the last decade we have pushed enough heroin into Russia to have 1 in 5 addicted in urban areas of the country.
0 inkandpaperguy 2012-11-08
A population in a haze, regardless of it being opium or alcohol, are much less likely to be aware of being taken advantage of by their government.
1 evenmoretiredoflibs 2012-11-08
Being mined by china
2 [deleted] 2012-11-08
source?
5 evenmoretiredoflibs 2012-11-08
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/06/15/chinese_takeout
Why the downvotes?
3 renholder777 2012-11-08
Great article. Thanks for the link.
1 Alcorr 2012-11-08
Came here to say this, well said.
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
[deleted]
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
I'm not going to go into great detail on how companies such as Haliburton are tripping all over themselves to get at this stuff. There will be your typical graft, corruption and racketeering on the part of CIA-backed middlemen and the profits will start flowing, I assure you. It's been happening in Africa and India for ages. It's such a big deal in India its actually just referred to as the Indian Mining Scam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_scam_in_India
1 NeoPlatonist 2012-11-08
Mainly #3. That's what is powering all our nice smart phones.
1 danxmason 2012-11-08
Don't forget protecting the caspian sea oil pipeline.
1 jablome 2012-11-08
You forgot one of the big ones: Afghanistan is part of the oil corridor to the East. There are still pipeline projects on the back burner.
There are also oil deposits as well as plenty of natural gas.
This article has some good info an what you said
3 dmareddit 2012-11-08
I'd have to say lithium is a big factor.
With more electronic devices and electric cars coming out from factories, it's an easy cash cow for corporations to exploit.
Cheap labor, probably lax labor laws, perfect recipe for huge profits.
3 [deleted] 2012-11-08
Afghanistan is in a total mess, partly due to the NATO-led war. Foreign military presence is in place to attempt to stabilize the country and avoid it becoming a failed state along the lines of Somalia.
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
[deleted]
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
It certainly should be an actual reason for being there. The West (especially the US) needs Afghanistan to become at least relatively stable. The country is geopolitically speaking in a very strategic location as a "buffer" between East and West. Also, the US needs their operation to be seen as an overall success to try and limit the rise of anti-American sentiment that is so prevalent in the Middle East and further afield. America and its allies need to be seen as a force that overthrows barbaric regimes and (eventually) sorts out places like Afghanistan, not a force that simply invades places on a whim and fucks everything up for everyone.
3 keslehr 2012-11-08
Protect opium production.
2 jacobe7 2012-11-08
This
1 mothereffingteresa 2012-11-08
Not admitting it's pointless until after the election.
1 odoyle321 2012-11-08
To protect the production of Heroin, supplement defense contractors, and promote American Imperialism. If there's one thing the Taliban did well, it HATED narcotics. Use and production.
1 theliberatedamalgam 2012-11-08
Keeping the Karzai government in power
1 hanahou 2012-11-08
Rare earth minerals and metals. that many military
offense...err...defense industries want.1 arkansah 2012-11-08
There are an abundance of natural resources in Afghanistan that our nations companies want. Compare the map at the bottom of the known natural resources to a map of american military bases and you have the best answer. http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/11/jp-morgan-hunt-afghan-gold/
Compare this to a map of military bases in Afghanistan and you have one of the main reasons.
http://coyoteprime-runningcauseicantfly.blogspot.com/2010/02/700-military-bases-of-afghanistan.html
0 billsang1 2012-11-08
To surround Iran.
2 [deleted] 2012-11-08
[deleted]
0 SargonOfAkkad 2012-11-08
Establish a strong national government that isn't as insane as the Taliban.
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
An opportunity cost to gain a monopoly on the most dangerous, addictive, oppressive and profitable drug trade in the history of man? Worth it. Besides, the opium was a bonus. See the other reasons for the war listed above.
1 renholder777 2012-11-08
I'm not going to go into great detail on how companies such as Haliburton are tripping all over themselves to get at this stuff. There will be your typical graft, corruption and racketeering on the part of CIA-backed middlemen and the profits will start flowing, I assure you. It's been happening in Africa and India for ages. It's such a big deal in India its actually just referred to as the Indian Mining Scam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_scam_in_India
1 [deleted] 2012-11-08
It's not their money though, it's people tax money that goes towards the defence budget. It's like private contractors reaping the benefits from war and paying nothing towards it except for probably some millions in pay offs to politicians.