>Redditor for 0 days

How do we know that you aren't a Hamas agent swaying the public opinion toward Palestine?

I guess you don't, and I applaud your skepticism. But I'm really not..lol

But in someways we are all propagandists to our own view points. especially in a public forum.

Very well.

I'm sure you're not, just pointing out that just because somebody has an opposing view doesn't mean they're agents or something.

because Israel shut off their fucking internet

citation needed

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/12/29/the-sad-sad-world-of-israels-big-time-liars/

Israel’s hasbara liars verge on the compulsive and pathological. Telling lies is routine; they are in denial of reality; they exaggerate; they come to believe their lies; they have no remorse; and they have no regard for the consequences.

the manual they work to pdf warning:

http://fedgeno.com/documents/israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf

This is verging on the edge of satire, it is so spot on...I had to search if it is real or not. It is a such a stereotype of the Israeli states response but seems legit. If this is really legit, then maybe we can start recognizing comments that follow the procedures set out in the manual. Very useful. Thank you.

its legit. there is probably a newer version around though.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Hasbara

Hasbara refers to the propaganda efforts to improve Israel's image abroad, to justify its actions, and defend it in world opinion. It is a public diplomacy effort undertaken by Israeli government officers, or individuals in target countries (public or private efforts; group or individual efforts). Israel portrays itself as fighting on two fronts: against the Palestinians/Arabs and world opinion. The latter is dealt with hasbara. The premise of hasbara is that Israel's problems are a matter of better propaganda, and not one of an underlying unjust situation.

the older manual is here:

Hasbara Handbook: Promoting Israel on Campus, World Union of Jewish Students, March 2002

pdf warning: http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf

It isn't just Hasbara and JIDF, it is there Sayanim cousins in the USA that greatly dominate news media. Then you have the so called Christian Zionists who are just as bad as Israel Firsters.

I fully agree, will add an edit.

Do you think there is coordination between these groups or that it is just their natural defensive position on the issue?

IMO it is both, but Israelis would never get away with it without the support and cover of their Sayanim cousins in the USA.

I think its really important that we stop them or do something to counter.

Right now we're only dealing mainly with regular Sayanims. But the way things are going now they might soon become SUPER Sayanims. Then there power will truly be unrivaled.

Super Sayanims - Joe Lieberman, Michael Chertoff, Rahm "Israel" Emanuel, Diane Feinstein, Eric Cantor, Jane Harman, Carl Levin, etc, etc, etc.

through coordination they are hijacking all real debate

A few days ago I posted this

Check out the story abut the New York Times comments section

You could present evidence. Actual evidence.

They told him through his fillings.

I think at this point in time there is no direct written/solid evidence that will prove my case of what is happening in subreddits. Giving you specific examples of comments in other subs will only lead to conjecture, because they will be just my opinion and in no way evidence. How I have derived at my conclusion on this matter is based on looking over the default subs and seeing the change in 'hivemind' from light spatterings of pro-Israeli sentiment to the polar opposite.

This is completely anecdotal, but I'm reaching out to other people who may also see this emerging... Maybe it is just me.

Edit: It's a bit of a cop-out but I'm not really sure how to prove it.

[deleted]

They always demand proof

Well, shit.

They always demand proof

Are you saying that I'm a Hasbara shill?

My god, how many times I've encountered this in this sr!

While the JIDF and other Israeli-owned propaganda machines are indeed very powerful and utterly control most social outlets, at least with Reddit everyone can get the word out about what they're doing.

When comments such as this one are removed by mods THEN you will know that the JIDF has achieved their mission goals.

Beware, with their latest incursion into Gaza to steal yet MORE land from the beaten-down Palestinians in their concentration camps the JIDF will be hard at work in the next few weeks.

I have seen Israel's terror, both to Arabs and anyone that is not an Ashkenazi, with my own eyes. In the long run, they will not win.

Israel is setting themselves up to be destroyed. American Jews have to recognize that what they are doing "in their name" is purely terrorism, plain and simple.

JIDF: FUCK YOU!

Solid points T, upboats !

You can not win

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There's a lot of people lying for sure. Some "redditors" keep saying how they're being attacked by rockets yet when I ask for proof about their house being attacked they say nothing...

Edit: Here's an example.

"under threat" does not mean "attacked by".

WHAT'S UP CONSPIRITARD BITCHES

IT'S ME, JEWBOT 3000

I ADMIT IT. I AM BEING PAYED 3 JEW GOLDS PER POST.

CHECK MY COMMENT HISTORY, YOU WILL HAVE TO AGREE THAT IS A LOT OF JEW GOLDS

THAT IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION FOR A SUPPOSEDLY LIBERAL COMMUNITY SUPPORTING A LIBERAL SOCIETY OVER AN ULTRA CONSERVATIVE GROUP OF THUGS

AMA

Reddit is certainly gamed, but you still have to deal with the logic and facts.

Do you think it is it possible that the israeli argument is more reasonable to many more people on reddit than the gazan one?

If it is, a big reason for that is very likely the Zionist shill propaganda that this very post and others like it are wondering about.

I think you give propaganda too much credit. Most of the propaganda I've seen on Reddit lately was to support a regime change in Syria. The propaganda was seen through (as with Libya) because the information and arguments did not stand up to scrutiny.

Again, we can discuss all the points here and it becomes obvious that most people think firing rockets indiscriminately into israel is a very stupid thing to do - unless you want that kind of response, then it's very irresponsible and someone should protect the gazan's from their leaders - apparently bent on sacrificing them for political gain.

I think you give propaganda too much credit.

I think you're not sufficiently aware of it. Israel might likely be wiped off the map if the world (and especially America) were more aware of what is really going on over there. And why aren't they? Because of the very MSM propaganda machine that 1) the Zionists own, 2) pretty much controls and manipulates a great portion of public opinion, 3) maintains a tight grip on the Zionist-controlled military industrial complex of the U.S., and 4) you mistakenly say I give too much credit to.

Most of the propaganda I've seen on Reddit lately was to support a regime change in Syria. The propaganda was seen through (as with Libya) because the information and arguments did not stand up to scrutiny.

Yet what's happening is happening on this planet, no? It doesn't matter what it might seem is or is not the case on a place like Reddit. The proof is ultimately in the how things are actually going, and what is in reality happening is that Israel is bombing the fuck out of Palestine and the US is both indirectly supporting them (by having given them the bombs in the first place), and directly supporting them (by spineless swine condoning the murderous atrocities Israel is responsible for).

Again, we can discuss all the points here and it becomes obvious that most people think firing rockets indiscriminately into israel is a very stupid thing to do

Of course it is, but the real point with regard to the effectiveness of the Zionist shill propaganda shows itself in the continued violence being perpetrated upon the Palestinian people by Israel regardless of what you or I or anyone else on a place like Reddit might think or say. Therefore, your original point wondering about whether "Israel's argument is more reasonable to many more people on reddit than the gazan one" I feel is one that is heavily influenced unfortunately by that same PR machine that also effects and influences the MSM and much of the planet for that matter.

it's very irresponsible and someone should protect the gazan's from their leaders

I think it's own leaders - more effective as they could possibly be - are NOT the biggest problem the Gazan people are facing in the least.

Zionist shill propaganda shows itself in the continued violence being perpetrated upon the Palestinian people by Israel

can you provide examples here on reddit, or is it simply the overwhelming majority that seem to disagree with you.

I'm not sufficiently understanding the second half of your sentence - the "majority that seem to disagree with you" part - but, in the interest of my giving the benefit of the doubt to people here and not just immediately jumping all over them right off the bat, I'll simply provide you with this as but one of literally DOZENS of examples of Israel and Zionist Jewry raping the Palestinians and their land.

Again, I didn't sufficiently understand your sentence phrasing, but it really doesn't matter how many people "disagree" with me. Whether it's only one person or an entire country, I will continue to stand up and say "You are 100% wrong in what you're doing" if what is happening is as ill as what Israel is doing.

Isn't it possible that the vast majority of active redditors agree that israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attack? We both agree it's wrong to send the rockets into civilian areas, launched from civilian areas. seems to be a rational opinion despite your bias.

Isn't it possible that the vast majority of active redditors agree that israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attack?

Heck, it's more than possible. I myself am one of those that feels that Israel has the right to defend itself from a rocket attack. I think anyone absolutely has the right to defend itself against a rocket attack.

However, this is not what is going on in Israel. You see, if I walk up to you, kick you in the balls, punch you in the face, and then call your mother a slut and spit on you while you're on the ground, would I then have the right to say that I must "defend myself against your evil tyranny" when you get up and try to punch me back?

If you call my saying that you would MORE than have the right to punch back - and that indeed I would deserve to actually get my ass kicked under these circumstances - a "bias"...then okay. We have very different definitions of what a bias actually is.

You see, if I walk up to you, kick you in the balls, punch you in the face, and then call your mother a slut and spit on you while you're on the ground

by the same token, israel is keeping an attacking rabid dog at bay. we can use all the analogies we want. israel isn't going to let the rabid dogs attack them, and certain gazans won't be kept from attacking their perceived oppressors unless by force. the only rational solution is to cease all violence on both sides.

by the same token, israel is keeping an attacking rabid dog at bay.

You fail to realize that 1) you're a pit bull and the dog "attacking" you is a chihuahua. Additionally, 2) you've been goading that chihuahua for years, telling it you're going to kill him just like you (already) killed his wife and six pups before it.

If this dog is rabid now, it is only because it was made to be such. No other reason.

RELEVANT

israel isn't going to let the rabid dogs attack them

Of course they're not. They are the rabid dogs. What's needed is a country of dog catchers to come in and tame these rabid dogs from Israel.

Many Gazans will justifiably not stop defending themselves because they have no choice but to defend themselves - even if only by throwing occasional rocks against the guns of the rabid dogs.

the only rational solution is to cease all violence on both sides.

This is absolutely, 100% correct and agreed.

You do realize that it is Israel and the Zionists that have thwarted all UN attempts to an Israel Palestine peace agreement? to a unanimous nonproliferation agreement? Literally EVERYONE except Israel and its owned guard dog - the U.S. - have agreed to and signed every peace agreement available and proposed by the UN.

Israel and the U.S. have been the only ones that haven't.

What does that tell you? Who's really interested in ceasing the violence and who is it that's continuing it?

israeli people aren't too happy with their leaders either. they overwhelmingly choose peace. stop firing rockets, and go back to the table. there's plenty of desert.

israeli people aren't too happy with their leaders either. they overwhelmingly choose peace.

Well maybe they need to get their leaders to act right, because these leaders have acted in such a way that represents Israel as an evil, war-thirsty place for decades now.

stop firing rockets, and go back to the table. there's plenty of desert.

Agreed. This, unfortunately, goes more for Israel than anyone else, however.

You could start by not claiming everyone who doesn't buy into your brand of conspiracy is a super secret Mossad agent.

I really don't believe that that is the case, there are definitely valid Israeli concerns and view points, being expressed by genuine commentors. But it's hard to pick out the genuine comments whilst in a sea of propaganda.

I am more talking about the how there seems to be a coordinated effort that is being managed from without side Reddit to manipulate the Reddit 'democracy'.

If you don't see then fair enough. I may be wrong.

Also accusing someone of being JIDF is hardly saying they are Mossad.

Well how do you deal with people like me? I have about as much love for the apartheid state as you do but I don't believe Jews are behind everything evil in the world. This often get's me called all the names in your post even though I have never and would never work for the Israeli government.

Some people are just pointing out how crazy this sub is without being a Zionist shill.

I deal with people like you just fine, I respect you opinion and probably agree with it. I'm not commenting about the views in this sub, I'm talking the really big subs being manipulated. I'm really not saying that everyone who apposes my opinion is a Zionist shill, that would be ridiculous.

I also think implying that I think 'Jews are behind everything Evil in the World' is an absurd leap of Hypocrisy.

Because I believe that it is mainly (not solely) Israeli being the main aggressor in the larger picture. I automatically believe 'Jews are behind everything Evil in the World'? Nope.. Is everyone who is apposed to to that view point a Zionist Shill? Nope.

Problem is money is backing Israel big time. American money. I mean just look at IDFs videos, shit they look like Karl Roves "Let's Get This Done". Compare that with this one from IDF "Why Was Private Property and Infrastructure Harmed?".

Just looking at IDFs videos make me sick, it's as they want you to think war is cool, looks like some kind of McDonalds commercial bullshit. And guess what, they succeed with it judging from the top comments:

This is an awesome video! Love it! Feels like a video game almost :-) Go IDF!!! --From America, w/ Love

Yeah, awesome. War is awesome. Video game.. super awesome..

The war on terrorism is a fucking joke. Follow the money. I hope people are smart enough to see through this IDF crap.

Your bravery will literally echo throughout the ages.

Yeah you're a real cool guy hating everyone, aren't you.

[deleted]

No, John. You are the terrorists.

Just found this guy's video in world news.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=akN_2kWZXnU

It will get buried in worldnews.. but this is how I feel.

This guy is 100% correct--just sucks that he has to scream it.

I understand though...it IS maddening that Israel is killing many, many people for the sake of terrorism.

They may be the kings of the world now but it will not last; apartheid terror states always collapse under their own weight...in fact you're seeing it happen right now.

The "advanced propaganda machine" known as people having different opinions than you.

The vast majority of people on reddit only care about being fed republican propaganda. Most other propaganda they'd be happy to participate in even.

I think at this point in time there is no direct written/solid evidence that will prove my case of what is happening in subreddits. Giving you specific examples of comments in other subs will only lead to conjecture, because they will be just my opinion and in no way evidence. How I have derived at my conclusion on this matter is based on looking over the default subs and seeing the change in 'hivemind' from light spatterings of pro-Israeli sentiment to the polar opposite.

This is completely anecdotal, but I'm reaching out to other people who may also see this emerging... Maybe it is just me.

Edit: It's a bit of a cop-out but I'm not really sure how to prove it.

Very well.

I'm sure you're not, just pointing out that just because somebody has an opposing view doesn't mean they're agents or something.

They told him through his fillings.

This guy is 100% correct--just sucks that he has to scream it.

I understand though...it IS maddening that Israel is killing many, many people for the sake of terrorism.

They may be the kings of the world now but it will not last; apartheid terror states always collapse under their own weight...in fact you're seeing it happen right now.