Honestly, in an infinite universe literally every thing is not only possible, but probable. To claim that we have even the most tenuous grasp of reality is vein and deeply flawed thinking.

This is VERY MUCH on the right path but there is one kicker... just one. and it's a big one. and it's that EVERYTHING has to follow an ordered path. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This still allows for everything to exist but it also creates a framework for possibility. That means there are only certain forms of infinite. Within our universe, in our time, with our laws, only certain things are possible at certain points in time. It's a linear progression of evolution. The consolidation of order or the condensation of what the universe desires or what I would call heaven.

Too tired / lazy /on my phone to look it up but the current thinking is that time depth and all other dimensions are relative and operate the way we expect them to in our corner of our universe. The only thing that my flawed mind hopes is constant is love.

And much to you T-F.

Cheers, constant love would be nice. We'll have to align ourselves with the truth before we will achieve that, which is why I believe it is important to have these discussions. :) Much love to you too Stevo42.

Nothing has order if you examine it closely enough. It's fractals of reality. Evolution isn't linear, it is cyclical and fractal. However I agree with what you call heaven, it's concentrated love (desire).

You think? I find it highly improbable that we could base our reality on probabilities if in fact it wasn't at the core, entirely organized. Is it the fact that it is infinitely organized that creates the illusion of chaos that is confusing? Like the number pi. On the surface of pi it appears it is random when in fact, because it always yields the same results each time, it is perfectly ordered. Fractals to me are the very fabric of reality that I believe we are derived from so I would agree definitely that the universe is precisely that and would love to someday see what it looks like it in written form if that is possible. I believe it probably is. Evolution is cyclical? Why do you say that? Surely someone as bright as you is aware of the awesome story of our evolution starting as far back as a photon being ejected from the big bang that evolved and transformed for billions of years until finally this light crystalized into these human bodies and everything else around us? If the universe collapses in on itself and then spits me back out into the same body doing the same things as I experienced in the previous cycle, then I would agree it's cyclical, if instead it reorganizes itself and I come back with an entirely different experience then I would think it is not cyclical. I just don't believe the universe, which I consider to be a perfect being, repeats itself ever because it is illogical. Nothing in known history has repeated itself to date and if the universe is infinite, I think it would be strange for it to be both repeating (cyclical) and infinite. That seems to oppose the very definition of infinite. History never repeats itself despite what you've been told lol.

Pi theoretically never ends, so any random string of numbers is contained within it. Dunno how relevant that is. How is it illogical to believe the Universe repeats itself? Look at the synchronicity of JFK and Lincoln. I agree that cyclical doesn't do it justice, that's why I included "fractal" to the description.

EVERYTHING has to follow an ordered path.

Yes it does, and, to use stevo42's language a bit here: To claim that we have even the most tenuous grasp of what that "ordered path" consists of is vein vain and deeply flawed thinking.

For ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

You don't even understand the level of the correctness in this statement, nor the implications and consequences of that correctness, for it involves an understanding of what the true meaning of the words "action" and "reaction" are...and well...we humans don't actually have that true understanding. You speak out of the side of your head like a small ignorant child that knows not what they say.

This still allows for everything to exist but it also creates a framework for possibility. That means there are only certain forms of infinite.

This very sentence actually gives a great example of my previous response above. A framework for possibility in no way only indicates "certain forms of infinite".

Within our universe, in our time, with our laws, only certain things are possible at certain points in time.

1) This is actually not necessarily true.

2) Even if it were, it actually means nothing since what's being talked about here in the ultimate sense in no way only refers to "our universe, in our time, with our laws" alone.

It's a linear progression of evolution.

This is the case for those who are limited and ignorant to such an extent as to not understand that it actually isn't.

Lrn 2 spl. "Vain"

Lrn 2 spl. "Vain"

Thank you - although the correction came at the expense of spelling errors exceedingly more embarrassing than mine (whether purposeful or not).

Yes it does, and, to use stevo42's language a bit here: To claim that we have even the most tenuous grasp of what that "ordered path" consists of is vein and deeply flawed thinking.

No... science has unraveled many levels of evolution within the universe and it is in no way vein or deeply flawed you fucking weirdo. Funny thing is, you would actually have to be vein and deeply flawed NOT TO SEE this at our current state of knowledge and technology.

You don't even understand the level of the correctness in this statement, nor the implications and consequences of that correctness, for it involves an understanding of what the true meaning of the words "action" and "reaction" are...and well...we humans don't actually have that true understanding. You speak out of the side of your head like a small ignorant child that knows not what they say.

Why are you sitting there, as a human, telling me that humans can't understand the true meaning of a word that you yourself just used as if to imply you have some how transcended the human flesh just so you could understand the words action and reaction. I don't care how transcendental you find these words to be... They are the basic working components of the universe, that is all. You speak out of a blackhole in your head where the soul has been sucked out leaving you with nothing but a shell of a perspective and only the ability to cry out in desperation hoping to one day return to the heavens in which you are already seated squarely at the throne of.

This very sentence actually gives a great example of my previous response above. A framework for possibility in no way only indicates "certain forms of infinite". 1) This is actually not necessarily true. 2) Even if it were, it actually means nothing since what's being talked about here in the ultimate sense in no way only refers to "our universe, in our time, with our laws" alone.

The point is dude... YOU HAVE TO MAKE AN INCREDIBLE STRETCH in order for your fantasies to be true. Sure maaayyybe somewhere in the vast infinite stretches of the universe and time... there could somehow possibly be whatever the fuck it is you are trying to protect. Jesus? I don't know. But Jesus isn't here. Jesus isn't saving you from your sins. In fact, you don't even have sins. Problem is, we are going way out of our way to defend fantasies, and they aren't even good fantasies. Where's the hookers and blackjack? You are fearful of death, as we all are, you are fearful of your place in the afterlife, which is a complete lie, and so you need something to comfort you. I get it. Problem is, it's man made and it's leading you astray. It's leading the world astray and it's tearing us all apart. Your, precious and enlightened, inability to accept reality as the one and only heaven will be the very thing that destroys the greatest gift ever given.

This is the case for those who are limited and ignorant to such an extent as to not understand that it actually isn't.

So then what? Does evolution time travel? Wtf are you talking about. Stop with the insults and actually give me some evidence for your claims. Your responses 90% follow this "You're wrong and ignorant!" and then provide me with nothing substantial at all.

"You speak out of a blackhole in your head where the soul has been sucked out leaving you with nothing but a shell of a perspective and only the ability to cry out in desperation hoping to one day return to the heavens in which you are already seated squarely at the throne of."

This MADE my day. Thank you T-F!

Haha I'm glad someone appreciated that. :)

science has unraveled many levels of evolution within the universe and it is in no way vein or deeply flawed you fucking weirdo.

The very fact that you start with this very sentence here is a testament to the fact that you don't actually know the first thing about which you speak.

Funny thing is, you would actually have to be vein and deeply flawed NOT TO SEE this at our current state of knowledge and technology.

Really? Do you really feel that? Is that your "official" retort? That's really the best you can come up with?

You've obviously never seen such easily-accesible fare as "Who Killed The Electric Car", and you've definitely never heard of Virginia Steen McIntyre.

Literally every sentence you've typed thus far digs you deeper and deeper into the hole of ignorance you've so comfortably nestled yourself into.

Why are you sitting there, as a human, telling me that humans can't understand the true meaning of a word that you yourself just used as if to imply you have some how transcended the human flesh just so you could understand the words action and reaction.

This is actually a wonderful statement on your part. Do you know what you just did in this statement? You just attested and gave weight and credence to the very thing that what I said refers to. Human knowledge is small and fallible, and for you or anyone to think that humanity or that tiny grain of sand called "science" has come up with too much of anything that can be justifiably called "universal truth" scales the very height of lunacy and hubris.

And in all of this, you don't even see that you just finished agreeing with the very point I was trying to make, do you? No. I know you don't.

I don't care how transcendental you find these words to be... They are the basic working components of the universe, that is all.

Oh I don't disagree. They indeed ARE working components of the universe. My point is that neither you nor I nor anyone human on this planet yet knows just WHAT those "components of the universe" really are. And no. I'm really sorry to tell you this, but much as you would like to otherwise think, science hasn't figured it out either.

You speak out of a blackhole in your head where the soul has been sucked out leaving you with nothing but a shell of a perspective and only the ability to cry out in desperation hoping to one day return to the heavens in which you are already seated squarely at the throne of.

lol. Not only is your great level of close-minded ignorance limited and relegated only to this conception of "heaven" as you call it, it's actually a quite wonderful and hilarious thing that even in the very vacuous statement that you made here (you continue outdoing yourself in them, by the way), you already admit the very existence OF a soul in the first place. The moment you acknowledge such existence is the very moment that the entirety of your limited, "physical only" argument falls like the deck of flimsy cards it showed itself to be from the very first sentence you typed.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE AN INCREDIBLE STRETCH in order for your fantasies to be true.

Firstly, you commit an immediate fallacy by calling them "fantasies" when the fact of the matter is that you've shown that you have not the least idea which way is up or down, let alone what is or is not a "fantasy". Secondly, you might have to "make an incredible stretch" in order to grasp some of these things, but this is only because of the extremely low and shallow level of your intellectual depth. It is very erroneous for you to project your inadequacy upon others. Not everyone is swimming in the kiddy pool of understanding.

Jesus? I don't know. But Jesus isn't here. Jesus isn't saving you from your sins.

See? Look at this right here. This is actually yet ANOTHER perfect "case in point" example of just how actually stupid and ignorant you are. You make assumptions that have really nothing to do with how things really are. What does Jesus have to do with anything here? with anything that I have talked about or brought up? You are, again, really a child delving into grown up games thinking that you have any idea whatsoever what you're talking about. You don't.

In fact, you don't even have sins.

I wonder if someone like you even understands the truth behind this statement.

Problem is, we are going way out of our way to defend fantasies, and they aren't even good fantasies.

No. YOU are. I'm not. I haven't brought anything like this up. It's been, in fact, you who have brought this up. This is all in YOUR head. Again, you continue projecting your own inadequacies upon others. Ultimately, this does a great deal more to show your own failings than anything or anyone else's.

You are fearful of death, as we all are, you are fearful of your place in the afterlife, which is a complete lie, and so you need something to comfort you.

Is that how you feel? Are you projecting again? It certainly seems that way. You're talking about things that, again, have nothing to do with what I've brought up and you're assuming you know what you're talking about. Heck, you're assuming that you know that I'm talking about…and you most definitely don't. You're not even close to where I'm at with regard to my points. You make an embarrassment of yourself doing this with all your assumptions, and if you only knew how wrong you are in even what you're assuming I'm saying or talking about, you'd go hide your head in shame for thinking that you ever had any idea.

I get it.

No. You're only getting what you THINK you get - what you've projected. You have no idea whatsoever what the truth of my energy is. Not even close. You're getting zero actually.

Problem is, it's man made and it's leading you astray.

No. It's actually led YOU astray. And you want to know why it's led you astray? It's led you astray because it's gotten you to so completely and entirely assume that you know what I and other people are talking about that you've committed arrogantly to an entirely incorrect point…and then, in assuming, you create this completely made up lie in your head that you then project upon others…And then when you "shoot down" another's viewpoint, you think you're shooting down the individual's argument when really in fact all you're doing is shooting down your own entirely mistaken idea of what they mean and what they're talking about in the first place. This is a particularly extreme and virulent variant of a personally-imposed straw man argument where an individual actually unwittingly imposes said fallacy upon THEMSELVES to such an extent that it renders their entire argument null and void to a really embarrassing (albeit humorous) extent.

It's leading the world astray and it's tearing us all apart.

Not what I'm talking about isn't - only what YOU'RE thinking about in your own, small, tiny little pee-hole sized world of make-believe arguments.

Your, precious and enlightened, inability to accept reality as the one and only heaven will be the very thing that destroys the greatest gift ever given.

It's a shame that you have neither a proper grasp of what you're talking about, nor even sentence punctuation (too many commas there, son) to come to grips with the fact that your simply arguing something that's not even being talked about or referred to here. You're so stuck on what you think you know that you have no idea that you're talking about a subject that was never even addressed in the first place.

This might be one of the biggest facepalms that I've given in a long time. Good job, son.

Stop with the insults and actually give me some evidence for your claims.

Stop with the insults? What? did you get butt-hurt at having to taste some of the very medicine you've been haughtily attempting to doll out left and right this whole time? Seriously?

And before I even begin talking about what I actually mean, you would have to first pull your head out of the dark ass-hole of your hubristic views and understand the basis from which I speak. I'm very not sure that you have the capability of doing that. You haven't shown that you do thus far.

Your responses 90% follow this "You're wrong and ignorant!" and then provide me with nothing substantial at all.

The vast majority of your responses come from a foundation of mistaken assumption, thinking you know what it is the other is referring to and then simply running headlong with that incorrect assumption without stopping to think for a moment about how incorrect you might actually be in your foundational line of reasoning. Based upon this modus operandi which you've demonstrably illustrated over and over again here, you're not merely ignorant, you're hubristic. This is much, much worse, and, as a result, it would simply take too much work for me to try to help you through the maze of confusion which is your mind in order to help you understand where I'm coming from. Perhaps someone else here can help you. It's certainly not worth my time.

Peace, and good luck on your journeys.

Peace bro. :P

Edit: you can spell hubristic, but not Vain?

Come on now. Are you stalking only so you can check for spelling errors while being entirely ignorant of the message itself? The misspelling came by virtue of mistaking "vain" for "vein". In everything I've written, you're going to choose to focus on that one particular mistake? and for what purpose? to what end? What does it accomplish? Does it make you feel better about yourself because you can tacitly make fun of someone for their missing the spelling of "vain"?

And what does this particular grammatical correction accomplish when you yourself have committed even more flagrant ones in every message you've sent thus far here?

I don't know if you're chiding lightly or trolling. Either way, I again appreciate the previous correction and it was notated appropriately.

Thank you.

It's the internet. Glad to hear you've a thick skin.

Fare enuff ser.

Pease,

My relationship with God is just that, MY relationship. It is a personal thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

umm... I didn't say a word about God. I was talking about religion... and sure your relationship with God is yours and yours alone... but that relationship defines everything that you do. If you think that animals don't have souls... then why does it matter if we kill them? If you think that the earth is only a temporary place of residency, then why not litter and obliterate ecosystems with our "God given rights" to dominate this place. The point is, these personal beliefs are reflected and echoed throughout everything that you do in life soo... No in fact it isn't personal. People fly fucking planes into buildings because of their "personal" belief in God.

People don't fly fucking planes into buildings because of their personal belief in God, they do it to start proxy wars in the middle east.

Also true. There is a lot of deception around 9/11. Yet religion is what is used to justify or at least explain away such horrible things.

Some of us remain spiritual by distancing ourselves from the cynicism of organized religion.

Of course, and that is a good and nobel path. I won't even bother with trying to point you in one direction or another... I'm just saying, THIS community, I would hope, would be evolved enough to see just how dark and destructive religion as a whole has been to mankind.

[deleted]

Haha no sir... I took Christianity to the very end and I broke it under the theory that TRUTH can be seen from all angles and will always remain true. Christianity is lightyears away from being anything close to that. I am not brainwashed.

Why were the early christians killed en masse and then suddenly after 500 years the roman made it their official religion? Why do you think that is?

It was because the philosophy that Jesus was sharing was destroying the boundaries between people and the establishment at the time didn't think it was sustainable, at least to their liking, so they decided to make it go away until they discovered that they could just distort the image of Jesus into their own liking. That's what I think. Case and point, Jesus wasn't white nor did he have blonde hair or blue eyes. This is a blatant distortion of someone that some people believe naively is the one and only God.

It was because the early christians didn't need a priest or priesthood to interpret the laws and words, they were easy and personal. The romans hated this since they couldn't direct them so they had them killed and introduced organized christianity.

Ok... we could speculate about that all day... but what's your point anyways? Who cares about all of that. It's the 21st century... We have so much more knowledge than those people could ever imagine. Why are we looking into the past so much rather than the future? Do we drive forward by looking through our rear view mirror?

Beacause they write of their future plans 50~100 years ahead, so if you want to know about this decade you go dig into publishings from the past. Its not a hidden plan they always write about what they plan to do. Guess why you never read any reports on them.

You guys seem to be agreeing with each other. Jesus was cool, the "holy catholic church" sucks, and the Romans were Romans.

I think Jesus was cool, if he was even real, but I also think if he was alive now we would agree on a lot of things and he certainly wouldn't be a bible thumping christian. He never called for the creation of a religion.

Read some "lost" gospels, you'd be surprised at how awesome Jesus can be. Christianity isn't all bad. The Church as an organized institution, however, has demonstrated itself to be ungodly in just about every way.

It's true, it's not that bad. But as long as people are unable to see a book as just a book written by men and not God and therefore aren't able to use their own minds to think rationally for themselves because the almighty book says something and that is the final word on the matter and even go so far as to indoctrinate their children before they are capable of forming their own ideas, then I would argue that it is in fact evil even if it does have some good ideas in it. Man... that was a horrible run on sentence... but I'm not fixing it either. haha

I love how offended people get when the conspiracy of religion is brought up.

Your religion is just as stupid as the ones you dont believe in

Religion is a collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Organized religion (or organised religion—see spelling differences), also known as institutional religion, is religion as a social institution,[1] in which belief systems and rituals are systematically arranged and formally established.[2] Organized religion is typically characterized by an official doctrine (or dogma), a hierarchical or bureaucratic leadership structure, and a codification of rules and practices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_religion

There is a difference...

Ex nihilo is a Latin phrase meaning "out of nothing". It often appears in conjunction with the concept of creation, as in creatio ex nihilo, meaning "creation out of nothing"—chiefly in philosophical or theological contexts, but also occurs in other fields.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_ex_nihilo

According to the Big Bang theory, the Universe was once in an extremely hot and dense state which expanded rapidly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

A creation myth is a symbolic narrative of how the world began and how people first came to inhabit it.[2][3] Creation myths develop in oral traditions and therefore typically have multiple versions;[3] and they are the most common form of myth, found throughout human culture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth

The Genesis creation narrative is the creation myth of both Judaism and Christianity. It is made up of two parts, roughly equivalent to the two first chapters of the Book of Genesis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative

Holy shit this thread is probably the biggest mess I've seen in months.

hahaha Indeed it is.

[deleted]

the Pope is planning on being in charge of the United Nations.

all the NWO leaders are Satanic worshipers.

[citations needed]

[deleted]

http://www.google.com/search?q=typing+something+into+google+doesn%27t+make+it+true

LOL

The UN would be much more competent with the Pope in charge

lol well... would Satan even exist if the church didn't make up his archetype? That's my point. Satan is bullshit. He's not fucking real. He's no more real than Satan Clause... Neither he nor Jesus nor any of these people that are used to literally cage peoples minds using extremely sophisticated mind control techniques developed over millennia are real. They are just tools. They are used to tap into your fears and execute code. That is just the harsh reality of it all. That is the truth.

Satan will be very upset with you now.

Yeah well that's great, I look forward to not giving a fuck about Satan's approval in my nonexistent heaven or hell and kicking him in his tiiiiiiny weird looking balls. :) I suspect you were just being sarcastic but I thought I would reply as though you were serious for fun.

He he :)

I smoked a doob with Satan in a dream, that was real enough. Nice guy considering he lives in the basement.

Damn, like he lives in your basement? I wanna come smoke a doob with you and Satan sometime then. I think it would be fun and "enlightening". Or wait, was that dream about you feeling guilty for smoking? Or did you just get it from some really creepy drug dealer guy that later ended up haunting your dreams?

Lol, no I was using basement as a metaphor for hell. The dream didn't reek of guilt, it was a journey to get to Satan, and the cherry pulled through the doob burning my tongue. It was a pretty interesting experience, can't for the life of me remember what we talked about but he was one funny guy. Kinda looked like the devil from Southpark, but less gay.

Man... I think you smoked with the bass player of my band...

are you open minded yourself? have you ever been baptized? how do you know that if you were baptized that you wouldn't have a 'religious' experience?

I'm not talking about modern baptism, more like the one that Jesus would have obtained from John.

Yes, I have been baptised. I have felt the holy spirit move through my body... I used to even hallucinate during a sleep state and see things that didn't exist without using any drugs at all. I've studied under someone who was a preacher with 3 phds divinity psychology and theology... I've cast demons out of people USING LOGIC NOT RELIGION. I have saved peoples lives by exposing them to the unfathomable incomparable beauty of the truth of the universe. This watered down bible bullshit bores me. Jesus's best work was nothing more than a plagiarism of Pythagoras on an off day. "Do not throw pearls before swine"? That was stolen. Jesus was most likely a guy that was just trying to dissolve the borders he could within his lifetime. He removed the barriers between the gentiles and the Jews... The type of radical that he was then is unacceptable to the establishment that has been running the show for far too long. They have milked this cow for as long as they could get away with it. They took someone who was probably honestly really great and using their ability to warp history into whatever they want made him into something that was used to entrap people rather than liberate them.

He also stood up against the bankers and the military, which got him killed.

agreed.

hey, I'm not defending organized religion, only accounting for it based on psychological phenomenon that don't need to be 'religious'

I think that organized religion is quite different than 'religious' experience.

How has my faith in Jesus Christ negatively effected you, directly or indirectly? (Please, don't respond with some collectivist argument.)

Why do you feel the need to push your beliefs onto others in such an abrassive manner?

It appears that you haven't come here with an open mind, and your intention was only to ridicule and belittle those who don't ascribe to your ideology.

Do you honestly believe that one can provide tangible proof of something which is rooted in faith? Of course you didn't, you just get off on this, because you are likely a sociopath.

Nobody here has the ability to prove that the son of God gave his life on the cross so that we may be forgiven. Knowing this, why do you persist? What do you plan to accomplish?

These are honest questions and my subjective observations. If you choose to respond, please refrain from resorting to "straw men" (as you have done numerous times in this thread) or other trite logical fallacies.

Your thesis relies upon the assumption that my faith is based on lies, can you prove that? Can you prove that Jesus Christ was not the son of God, without begging the question eg:there is no God, unless you are able to prove that there is in fact no God? I have an idea of what your response might be: "I can't prove a negative"; or some other tired cliche, but humor me.

Why do you feel the need to push your beliefs onto others in such an abrassive manner?

When a book creates a scenario where an apocalypse is necessary for the return of a messiah to occur then this is no longer just something that people can ignore. At that point a gun is being put to my head and my childrens head and I won't stand for it. Are christians more tame than most? Yes absolutely, but that is only because this brand of religion tends to be more cowardly. You people like to pick and choose your passages and only halfway live up to the book that you so pridefully and blindly believe God penned himself. You have no problem indoctrinating your children and scolding them or even deserting them as a family if they do not follow the same path. You create divides between your own family for nothing more than to feel slightly superior to other people and you and the rest of the religious community should be ashamed of yourself. Ashamed that you are so afraid of what happens after you die that you can't even see the universe around you. You can't see that you are already in the pinnacle of what any heaven could ever be. You should be ashamed that GOD hands you the key to eternal life, put's a crown on your head and says "GO AND CREATE THE HEAVENS" and you are too weak, too scared, to blind to fulfill that dream. You choose to live your life in servitude of a God that is powerless, meaningless, and heartless only to receive rewards of which you don't even know what they are...

It appears that you haven't come here with an open mind, and your intention was only to ridicule and belittle those who don't ascribe to your ideology.

Religion deserves ridicule... absolutely. That's the least I could do to respect the countless souls that have been lost due to it's web of lies. But no, that's not what I'm here to do. I was legitimately surprised conspiracy theorists are quite religious. It just seems oxymoronic to me.

Do you honestly believe that one can provide tangible proof of something which is rooted in faith? Of course you didn't, you just get off on this, because you are likely a sociopath.

I don't get off on this... I wish I didn't have to deal with it at all. Religion is destroying the world wide family. We are all divided by the very thing you hold so much hope and faith in... It creates the problems it pretends it's fixing. It's time we grew up.

Your thesis relies upon the assumption that my faith is based on lies, can you prove that? Can you prove that Jesus Christ was not the son of God, without begging the question eg:there is no God, unless you are able to prove that there is in fact no God? I have an idea of what your response might be: "I can't prove a negative"; or some other tired cliche, but humor me.

Do you not realize that had you been born in the Arab world you would be just as dedicated and devout to that religion as you are Christianity? Do you really think God chose you to be born in America so you could fight with the "chosen ones"? All these religions wear a mask of peace and forgiveness but... they also preach that they will be victorious in establishing their kingdom on earth. Of course Jesus was the son of God... but so am I. We all are. That's what it is to be alive. If you believe that the bible is really God's word, then you have to seriously learn hebrew so you can learn the bible in it's original form, you have to know the history of the time so you can define the meaning of words in their context, you have to know when the book was put together, by whom it was put together, for what purposes it was put together, what political pressures there were at the time... etc etc etc. You talk as if you have conviction about christianity but your faith is built on quicksand. God doesn't require faith, he's not fooling anyone. The truth is constantly blaring in your face as loud as it can and you simply have to look outside into the sky to see that the sky is blue and the grass is green. God isn't playing games with anyone...This isn't some celestial game of hide and go seek. God gave you everything. Take it or leave it...

I asked you not to reply with logical fallacies, yet I see that you have instead chosen to do just the opposite, on a massive scale. All the while ignoring my opening question, using copious amounts of hyperbole, as well as confining most of your rhetoric within a collectivist construct. It is sad that I was able to predict this.

I understand that you believe you have said a lot, but you haven't said anything at all. It's as if you are unable to venture from a script of talking points you've aped from various militant anti-theists.

Respond if you must, but don't expect a reply. I've already wasted enough of my time.

Cheers

Give me a logical fallacie... give me hyperbole. Let's see it. Quote me. I think you were just waiting to execute your premade defense paragraph despite anything I said. Also, I'm very very different than most anti-theists... there are no scripts here. I believe we live in heaven and that the laws of the universe support that theory. No other anti-theist would dare venture to say anything like that at this point in time.

Rather than humoring your petulant behavior, I'll let you do the honors.

If you don't see the multitude of fallacies, hyperbole, etc which you have perpetrated, then you don't know what you are looking for, and I don't plan on being your tutor.

Studying the basic Trivium is a great start, and there are many online resources which detail the various types of logical fallacies. It would be wise of you to utilize these sources if you ever plan on engaging in a legitimate debate.

I had no "preplanned paragraph", and I sincerely hoped that you would have respected my request for an honest discourse.

Feel free to have the last word.

Well... I do see it honestly but I can back up anything that I've stated so far with very basic facts about the universe that build the perspective from which I am speak from. Unfortunately, that takes more time than I am currently willing to invest, which is my excuse for the fallacies and hyperbole. They work as shortcuts to my points. I guess it didn't work though haha. Anyways, I'm sure you didn't have a preplanned paragraph just like I didn't steal any of these ideas from other anti-theists. I've been a lone anti-theist for a long time in fact.

I respect your desire for honest discourse. This above all else is key to some sort of unity in the world. I'm sorry if you found my end of the discourse to be "petulant", it has nothing to do with you personally...

Read The Secret Teachings of Jesus! So good. I use to not believe in Jesus, but now he's my homeboy.

Upvote for Disorganized religion!

Believe in God, or Don't! We don't care!

So you think a primordial soup all of a sudden exploded and created a mess called life? I mean come on, that is a baseless and stupid belief.

I know god exists from personal experience and I don't even go to churches or stuff, unless its one of those cultural things and traditions. I mean Jesus Christ didn't pray in large buildings and kiss so called priests hands.

No of course that didn't happen, that's the fucking switch. They tell you that there has to be an A and a B but never consider the fact that both A and B are themselves products of an eternal evolution. The beauty in existence is it's infinite story. There is no end and there is no beginning and there never will be. The only god that could possibly exist is the organization, the order, the laws of the universe that allow EVERYTHING to exist.

Congratulations! Their education has worked and your brainwashing was successful into making you an atheist.

...really? What evidence is there to support your claim?

For a second lets step aside from both our perspectives and take a look. Why does media seem to have one objective?(to prove that God doesnt exist). Every thing you have been told/learnt from the time you were crawling in kindergarten, isn't this the bastion they would like to control if change if they had as much control as we know they do. Why let children learn the truth in such a constant systematic manner? Makes you question the truth doesn't it?

So is the entire universe in on this conspiracy as well? Is the second law of thermodynamics and evolution just a part of the conspiracy?

Evolution is the conspiracy and the laws of physics have always existed. Discovering them didnt change anything.

haha ok... sure man. I bet the earth is 6000 years old too right?

Which media are you talking about that keeps claiming that God doesn't exist?

believing in a god, has absolutely nothing to do with religion. that is all.

Agreed... but the conspiracy I'm talking about is the conspiracy of religion and not the definition of God.

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Wait a sec... what did Jesus actually look like when he was alive? What was the color of his skin, what was the color of his eyes? Who put together the bible and when did they do it? and under what political pressures did this occur? Do you know hebrew? Can you read what the bible actually says? Do you know the bible in it's historic context? If this is what you are basing your entire existence off of, is it worth it to you to actually know by what, by who, and for who this book is written? If it is not... then why are you even trying to tell me what you think? I work hard to understand myself and my place in the universe. This is serious shit. I want to know what I am and where I am going. I don't need fear mongering books to steer me into submission for sins I never committed in the first place.

the good done by christian churches.... LMFAO.... holy shit.... that may have been true a couple hundred years ago, but the second churches received their tax exempt status, they were corrupt and for profit. All the free loving good christian help they give was already paid for with tax dollars.... what a joke

I grew up iN the church... that made me an atheist... so what now dick face? WHO? THE? FUCK? BRAIN? WASHED? ME? DEEEERRRRPPPPPPPP. I know your thought process is a bit off but I'll spare you the embarrassment of a history lesson for a quick lesson in logic. Atheist, non-theist, deist, and the many that are similar or not, have been shamed, tortured, raped, murdered, blah blah fucking blah in the name of religion. Long before any form of media, or any fucking medium for communicating was even around, religion was ass fucking people in the faces, advocating slavery, rape, torture, and so forth. your faggoty fucking bibles do the same thing. And any logical human being subjected to 'faith' or 'christianity' whatever it may be, should be able to realize... it's a fucking conspiracy.

America is NOT a Christian nation and God help us I hope it never will be. America is a nation founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION freedom of religion... freedom... (echo)

I love you tots, you never fail to get a rise outta me.

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No we don't have a badass... but we do indeed have an anti-theist.

Haha no sir... I took Christianity to the very end and I broke it under the theory that TRUTH can be seen from all angles and will always remain true. Christianity is lightyears away from being anything close to that. I am not brainwashed.

Evolution is the conspiracy and the laws of physics have always existed. Discovering them didnt change anything.

People don't fly fucking planes into buildings because of their personal belief in God, they do it to start proxy wars in the middle east.