[deleted]

Holocaust dogma maintains that millions of Jews (other people don't matter in the Holocaust dogma) were gassed to death in Nazi camps.

Where can I find examples of this claim that millions of jews were gassed?

You cannot as it is not true, one of the reasons for the introduction of death camps was the negative affect that shooting a large number of people was having on the people that did it.

Six million Jews were not gasses within a gas chamber. The vast majority where worked/starved to death or walked up to a mass grave and then shot. Some German solders where so affected by doing this to another human being that they choose to join the victims.

Edit: Spelling

Holocaust deniers always focus on the gas chambers thing though. They seem to think that if they can show that only a few people were gassed (if at all), that means the holocaust probably didn't happen.

That seems like odd way to frame the debate, since although I recall learning that there were gas chambers I was never taught that they were a particularly common means of killing people. In reality I would guess that disease and starvation killed off more jews than the gas chambers.

Which, to me, is the conspiracy.

The conspiracy is people inventing straw man claims about the holocaust, then attacking those straw men, and then using that as a basis for denying the holocaust?

To me, in this case, yes. But I'm happy to be told how I'm wrong.

I think you're right. Jew hatred among Europeans goes back at least to the early middle ages. During the first crusade, crusaders from France on their way to Jerusalem actually made a detour into Germany to massacre a bunch of jews. They figured since biblical prophesy (as they understood it) required them to exterminate non-christians, it wasn't good enough to massacre only muslims.

In later centuries you had all kinds of problems like blood libel that frequently forced jews to go into hiding on the woods for months at a time just because somebody's kid went missing. A lot if these retarded ideas get reincarnated today in various crackpot "theories" about jews.

I consider that humans have a need to be part of a group, if you want to define a group then do it by displaying aggression to another group with an identifiable characteristic, Jew, black, women, gay ect.

As an individual if you define and lead a group you have power and status.

Did you know that one of the reasons for the success of Venice was the Jewish? Although required to live under a curfew and pay for their own guards the freedom they had to do business contributed to Venice becoming a significant city state.

At that time and place in order to ensure that a Jew kept to the rules they were required to wear a yellow star on their clothing.

If I wished to create a group or a cult I would spend more time saying what I was against than for.

Most of the religious texts I have ever read just reinforce this position.

No one has suggested that six million were gassed.

Try reading this Web page. No, it isn't a site backed by Zionist Jews. There's no point in looking for truth on sites backed by Zionist Jews, because all you will get is the Holocaust dogma, and if you are attempting to question critically the Holocaust dogma, it does no no good to have it shoved in your face repeatedly. You must look at authorities that dispute the dogma, and consider their argument.

There's no point in looking for truth on sites backed by Zionist Jews,

I'm looking for evidence to support your assertion that "Holocaust dogma maintains that millions of Jews (other people don't matter in the Holocaust dogma) were gassed to death in Nazi camps."

I'd check out wikipedia on the topic for the "official narrative" of the holocaust.

There are many other sources, most claim that they were gassed to death. If the Nazi's wanted to kill as many Jews as possible, why ship the Jews to concentration camps? If you want to kill every Jew in the world, taking the time to ship them to concentration camps would be a waste of resources that could be used to kill more Jews.

I'd check out wikipedia on the topic for the "official narrative" of the holocaust.

That article doesn't actually say that millions were gassed.

If the Nazi's wanted to kill as many Jews as possible, why ship the Jews to concentration camps?

Maybe they wanted to use them as prison labor.

That article doesn't actually say that millions were gassed.

It said most were gassed, most of 6 million is millions.

Maybe they wanted to use them as prison labor.

So now they wanted to use them as prison labor, instead of exterminating them? I understand that you can indeed work people to death, what I don't understand, is why the camps were built the way they were. A death camp would need no pool, nor theater. If you wanted to kill 6,000,000 people, a typhus epidemic would be welcome (so why disinfect for it?). If your goal was to kill the Jew's, you'd kill them in the most efficient way possible, or the least costly way possible.

If your plan was to exterminate the Jew's, would you have 150,000 Jews serving in your military?

So now they wanted to use them as prison labor, instead of exterminating them?

Keep them alive for a while, make them work, do some medical experiments, etc. If you run out of useful things for then to do, kill them. If they get too old or cantankerous or they try to escape or something, kill them.

a typhus epidemic would be welcome (so why disinfect for it?).

Typhus could easily spread to soldiers working the camps. The last thing nazis needed was a typhus outbreak among their troops.

If your plan was to exterminate the Jew's, would you have 150,000 Jews serving in your military?

Serving in the Nazi army was actually a terrific way to get someone killed. It's too bad they could only get 150,000 to fight for them, or else I'm sure they'd love to send every jew into Stalingrad.

What do you think you are doing here? We all agree that nobody said millions of Jews were gassed. Somebody said that it's holocaust dogma to say that millions of Jews were gassed. That is true. That is why Bishop Williamson was skewered in the press because he said millions of Jews weren't gassed.

Somebody said that it's holocaust dogmato say that millions of Jews were gassed. That is true.

How can it be dogma if no one said it?

Nice attempt at derailing the conversation by demanding proof for irrelevant minutiae. Nobody ever said that millions of Jews were gassed. So what?

So what?

So it seems like holocaust deniers are attacking straw men.

Well, if you say that even 1 million Jews died in the Holocaust, you would be denying the existence of, much less the death of 5 million Jews. So you could say that a Holocaust happened and yet still be a denier. You have to be prepared to accept the possibility that you might be wrong and be comfortable with the fact that you may in fact be a Holocaust denier.

There is reason to doubt this number six million, which appears to be a mythical and magical number, applied to the Holocaust for religious and occult purposes.

That's actually complete BS.

It was made up in White supremacist communities from misinterpretations of several newspaper headlines. Russia had about 6 million Jews way back in the early 20th century, so you've got people sifting through newspapers. Any mention of 6 million Jews in peril must be evidence of early revisions of "Holocaust mythology" to these people. But the truth is, there was actually awful antisemitism in Russia and 6 million was the number of Jews. So "6 million in peril" was the truth. It turns out 6 million did die in a genocide, but it's a coincidence that the number was equivalent to the population of Russia.

There is so much cherry-picking and selection bias going on with this theory. It is so dishonest. Find me where it says in the bible or Talmud six million.

What we need is holocaust provers. If the outlandish claims of the Holocaust are true, then there should be proof. In a death camp, why was their a theater? A swimming pool? If the Nazi's were intent on killing as many Jews as possible, why did they allow the Red Cross access to the camps?

Seems the Bolshevik's are much more efficient at genocide than the Nazi's. The Nazi's are so bad at it, they built a damn pool inside the camp.

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Really? So the Jews have enough power to ban denial in 17 countries, but not every Western country?

As a person that was raised in West Germany (as was), walked round the sites of the camps, talked to people that lived through that time I do consider that a good many people died in an industrialised genocide.

Multiple methods where used throughout this period to kill people, for example many were just shot and left in mass graves and concentration camps worked people to death so to look at one method and say the maths does not add up misses this fact.

On many occasions in my life I have looked into things and considered them to just be false from the available evidence but my judgment is that the holocaust happened and will always questions the motivations of any that deny it.

Yes records where lost at the end of the war and some speculation will always happen over the numbers, you also need to consider this is not just a Jewish issue, many of those that met a premature death where just those that did not fit the needs of the regime.

Although you may point to a slight observation and dismiss the whole issue the evidence is abundant that this happened.

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I get worked up as this is not a remote event to myself. I walked in these places ane spoke to these people.

I'm a critic of many things within this world but on this issue the conditioning is denial, I do not consider asking questions wrong it is just when these are events that affect how the world works today I question.

Many things in our world need to be challenged but this is not one of them.

Youre pretty much the only voice of reason on this thread

because you havent looked yet at the counter evidence, which is the 500 page factual book I mention below, Read 20 pages of it and you will feel very different

Thats because there is no counter evidence. The Holocaust happened and millions of people died in it. Whether they were gassed to death or not isnt important because the Nazis did execute millions of people.

So a book written by an electrical engineer and published by a right wing publishing house is your source? And you consider this credible?

A book I did read many years ago.

I spoke to primary sources on this, my grandfather was part of the attempt to support the people that had been imprisoned, family friends where police officers in Germany during this period, I have met people that walked out of the camps and I myself have walked in places like Bergen Belsen.

Unlike those that you are (possibly indirectly) supporting I am happy to have my thoughts and idea challenged but please consider your sources. If I did support your opinion then I would uses one of the far better arguments from far better sources.

As it is the best evidence comes, as always from primary sources and then there must be a process of peer review. It will be interesting to look for well-informed reviews on this book.

Although I do consider many things that do happen within our world need to be discussed and re-examined this is not one of them.

Do you only consider sources from main stream publishers? The very publishers that are pushing the "official narrative"?

No I consider any sources that has value, would you trust a study on weight loss that was published by a food company?

an electrical engineer, why not? The time for "experts" is over. The "experts" have been fooling us long enough. This guy has dedicated his entire life to researching the topic and as you can possibly imagine, it is near impossible to get such a book published, unless you revert to a publishing house that has "similar" books on display. Bergen Belsen for example was a death camp yes....for sick and wounded people to die, yes, very barbaric. But to be actively killed, no! In Nuremberg trials they started with outrageous claims, and one by one they disappeared. Until finally, they confirmed that no camp whatsoever was a killing camp on German soil. In the end, they basically stayed with Ausschwitz. And this, we should all know by now, was a labour camp (yes, people die while working, very cruel), and one of the benefactors was the SEC factory across the street which was co-owned by the Bush family. THIS is the stuff that is real history. Not the fairy tales about (Ashke-)Nazi Germans. The BUsh family built their fortune on jewish slave labour. Two American presidents. Skull & Bones. Death worship. And the concentration camps were a British invention to begin with. South Africa, Bure war, look it up.

Great video

And another.

This young jewish man went to Auschwitz with questions, and got some interesting answers.

Was going to post this and other related videos by David Cole, himself a Jew. For these and other videos and interviews he made, he was completely ostracized and his life and his family's life was continuously threatened until he finally recanted everything that he alleged and publicly recanted everything that he had been so previously vociferous about.

A truthful, critical, and inquisitive Jew was destroyed by Zionists propagandizers.

http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/145-references-to-6000000-jews-prior-to.html

6,000,000 is a special number for the Jews.

1900 - Stephen S. Wise, New York Times, June 11, 1900 "There are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism."

1905 - New York Times, November 1st, 1905 "From 1800 to 1902 he caused 6,000,000 Jewish families to be expelled from Russia ..."

1911 - Max Nordeau, The Jewish Chronicle (London), August 18th, 1911, page 14 " ... the downfall of six million creatures ... for no war has ever yet destroyed six million human lives."

1919 - The Corsicana Daily Sun, April 3rd, 1919, p.5 "SIX MILLION ARE STARVING ... It is estimated that there are six million Jewish women, children and aged men actually starving to death.

1919 - San Antonio Express, April 9th, 1919, page 12 "At no other time in the history of the Jewish people has the need been so great as now. Six million of our brothers and sisters are dying of starvation. The entire race is threatened with extinction."

1921 - New York Times, July 20, 1921, page 2 "BEGS AMERICA SAVE 6,000,000 IN RUSSIA. Russia's 6,000,000 Jews are facing extermination by massacre."

1931 - The Montreal Gazette, December 28th, 1931, page 25 "SIX MILLION JEWS FACE STARVATION. ... FEARS CRISIS AT HAND. ... six million Jews in Eastern Europe face starvation, and even worse, during the coming winter."

1938 - New York Times, January 9th, 1938, page 12 "PERSECUTED JEWS SEEN ON INCREASE. 6,000,000 VICTIMS NOTED. ... Five to six million in all are today the victims of governmental anti-Semitism ... "

1939 - Contemporary Jewish Record, Volume 2 July/August 1939 (Published by the American Jewish Committee) " ... the coming ward would be the annihilation of the six million Jews in East and Central Europe."

...and WW2 hasn't even started.

The Jews have been telling us BIG LIES for a long time.

I see what you're getting at but what specifically makes it a special number? I mean aren't these just quotes taken from old newspaper articles, I'm sure if we tried hard enough we could find as many articles referring to just two jews that span across decades. Is it something religious about 6mil?

Edit: Sorry I think I see, 6million being persecuted I guess.

Do you have another source for this?

This is part 2 of a talk show which is quite interesting. David Cole is one guest who points out a few facts I didn't know about the gas chambers, but is shouted down by the irrational opposition. The last part has guests who claim they were eye-witnesses to stuff which appears to be fictitious. There is a commenter in the background explaining why he thinks its all rubbish too.

By 'holocaust denier' do you mean Zionists who refuse to acknowledge the systematic eradication of Palestine?

"The hoax of the 20th century" by Arthur R. Butz, can be found as free Pdf on the net. The book provides detailed, solid facts that what the allies have labelled "Holocaust" (burning sacrifice to a deity in Koine Greek) has at the very least been greatly exaggerated for propaganda purposes. Victors write history, as we should know. Both Stalin and Hitler went after the jews, yes, true. Because they were in the same Club. Churchill and Roosevelt as well, by the way. One club, one show, one agenda. Careful with the term "holocaust denial", nobody would be capable to deny something, that has not been properly defined. What is to be rejected is the idea that this was a purely German agenda. Same trick was already tried after WWI by the way. The point was that as an outcome of WWII, a jewish homeland was to be created in Palestine, see Balfour Declaration to Lord Rothschild. Adolf Schicklgruber was a 25% jew himself, bastard son of the Vienna house of Rothschild. Geneology enquiry done by Chancellor of Austria. Of course it has been buried.

The problem was cremation. Ovens were too small for amount of people killed as you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd4XSk_UJug

If you take a look at this painting http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dSOfCu1Rjos/UArV_VHr8uI/AAAAAAAAAHg/4owTPy6zeNQ/s1600/escanear0006.jpg made by David Olère http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ol%C3%A8re you can see that oven is for 1 person (+ child). Human body burns for 2-3 hours. Number of people killed is up for discussion. People were killed, there is no doubt about it.

There is doubt as to the methodology of the deaths. If a typhus epidemic sweeps through an under nourished camp, are the resulting deaths due to extermination? If the bodies of the victims of typhus are burned, did burning the victims hide evidence, or save other prisoners?

Prisoners died on both sides without a doubt. There were murders, but there was no Jewish Holocaust. If those who died during WW2, I would say the most tragic genocide was of the Russian people, by the Bolshevik's people.

The Holodomor occurred in 1932-33 (by the Bolshevik's as well), and illustrates perfectly what the Zionist's would do to break a country's nationalism. Millions intentionally starved to death, some chose to cannibalize the young to survive. But all of it was intentional.

They did use zyklon B made by I.G. farben (financed by rothschild family)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben_Building

and there is also carbon monoxide http://www.zchor.org/VAN.JPG

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005220

Now, let us talk about profit side of operaition. Let us say we have few hundred thousand people (it does not metter religon or race) to kill. The most profitable thing to do would be to put work capable people in work camps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowitz_concentration_camp but people who are incapable of working is too much of expense (housing, food..etc.) to keep. The logical thing would be to kill them and thus maximize profit. Every person that is killed was profitable for nazis. They would take clothing, gold, hair (for blankets)....

And fastest (and cheapest) way to kill people is with readily available and cheap substance

was the trade name of a cyanide-based pesticide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B

And cheap SOBs bought cheapest crematoriums. With not enough capacity to burn body's.

You have to look at it from business side of event. Not emotionally. It was business after all (for them).

Nobody denies the Holocaust. Holocaust Denier is a pejorative term made up by people who don't understand the difference between "it didn't happen" and "some of it didn't happen." That said, you won't find any evidence that some of the Holocaust didn't happen. That's because there won't be any evidence for something that didn't happen. People who are called Holocaust Deniers deny the existence of gas chambers and the existence of a master plan by the Nazis to exterminate the Jews. They also say that the six million dead figure cannot be substantiated. They say this because the evidence for gas chambers, a master plan, and six million dead is an insult to the intelligence of any thinking person who looks beyond the superficial "evidence" we're told about.

Well the thing about burning the bodies, apparently they've had no problem cremating the victims while they were still alive though most were dead.

Out of this entire conspiracy, there is one thing people always overlook: Not all of the prisoners were Jews.

There were gays, gypsies, political prisoners, Slavs [Seen even worse then Jews], Ethnic Poles and Serbs, Soviet PoWs, Africans, the disabled/mentally ill, freemasons, and Jehovah Witnesses.

Their numbers combined exceed just the Jewish death toll alone by a million and few hundred thousand with Soviet Prisoners being 2-3 million alone.

So in total, it was estimated that about 10-13 million roughly were exterminated by the Nazi-driven Holocaust with, if you go by the official numbers, the Jewish death toll only being half.

I only want to see those victims be recognized as much as the Jewish victims were.

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There were some camps for certain groups like the Slavs whom were brutally murdered by Croatian allies of Germany that ran the camps but generally they were mixed.

These were the patches that the non-Jewish Polish wore in Auschwitz.

http://i.imgur.com/uuVCa.jpg

Within many of the camps this was true, not just as a non-Jewish thing but as a status thing. I still wonder if this was about organisation or division. I remember seeing the large collection of patches that had been collected by a family friend.

This depends on when and where. In the 30's this was true in many areas of Germany (but not all - although missed within the literature I have been told that many temporary facilities where around at this time) but in the 40's it was less defined. This lack of definition may have been due to many things but I often consider that it was properly more efficient to ship people to facilities that worked rather than to make the queue at the right facility.

Another thing that was overlooked, was that 150,000 Nazi's were Jew's. The Nazi's integrated their fighting force, rather than the segregation that was done by the Allies. One of the Nazi regiments was the most diverse fighting forces ever. When they went to places like the Ukraine, the people welcomed the Nazi's, and the events of the war never changed their mind.

You cannot claim to be knowledgeable about a subject if you only explore one side of it. If you refuse to question the official narrative, then you are just an agent of it, rather than a thinking individual. But be very careful about questioning the official narrative, when it comes to the Holocaust, it is illegal in many countries.

There isn't any. The people who think that the Holocaust didn't happen tend to just hate Jews.

I have visited a Concentration Camp. I have seen records of the horrors that occurred there.

End of story. You're welcome.

I have visited Egypt. I have seen the records of how the great pyramid was built in ~20 years by people who hadn't discovered the wheel. End of story. You're welcome.

I have been to Korea. I have recorded Koreans saying that Gangnam Style is the best song in the world. End of Story. You're welcome.

One question, what did you hear?

The number is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that people allowed it to happen.

Rather than all die...for the racial survival and purity of the atheists Gods on earth?

Rather than stop Hitler before a single person died.

You are Hitler atheist.

But what if there were no "death camps"? What if the number of dead prisoners, didn't die because of extermination, but because of typhus?

By recognizing that the Jewish Holocaust didn't happen, we can then look at all of the actual genocides that have happened throughout history, and understand how they happened and how they can be prevented. Better yet, we could look in our present day world and focus our energies on solving those epidemic's and genocides, instead of wasting money building Holocaust monuments in major cities.

The fact that Jews were placed in concentration camps is bad enough, it doesn't matter if they died from typhus or gas oven. And it's fallacious to think that honouring the dead of ww2 somehow prevents or detracts from the ability to analyse other genocide.

What about Japanese placed into concentration camps? Russians?

The Jewish people declared war on Germany in 1933. Considering that act alone, I'd say it was a good decision to put Jews into work camps. Looking at the Bolshevik revolution in Russia in 1917, and the horrible things that Jewish revolution brought about, adds fuel to the fire. Seeing how they instrumented the Holodomor genocide... Do you even know about the Holodomor genocide?

Honoring a false genocide does detract from the ability to honor other genocides. In the major cities in the US, we have Holocaust monuments, not WW2 Monuments. Holocaust Museums. Most American's and Canadians never here about the other genocides, they only hear about the false genocide, the Jewish Holocaust.

We should honor the dead of WW2 undoubtedly. Let's not honor the imaginary dead.

Anyone placed in a concentration camp is unacceptable. Even the Eisenhower camps holding the Nazis after the war was unacceptable.

It was not a good decision to put Jews into concentration camps. Trying to put an entire race at blame for the actions of a few is fallacious and dangerous.

Honoring the jews of WW2 is not honoring a false genocide, regardless of how you believe those people died in the camps, it is a reminder not to allow these things to happen to anyone.

Most Americans and Canadians have never heard about other genocides doesn't mean they will learn about other genocides if everyone ignored the holocaust, nor does it mean they can't learn about other genocides in addition to holocaust. You present a false dichotomoy that does not follow.

To me, in this case, yes. But I'm happy to be told how I'm wrong.

What we need is holocaust provers. If the outlandish claims of the Holocaust are true, then there should be proof. In a death camp, why was their a theater? A swimming pool? If the Nazi's were intent on killing as many Jews as possible, why did they allow the Red Cross access to the camps?

Seems the Bolshevik's are much more efficient at genocide than the Nazi's. The Nazi's are so bad at it, they built a damn pool inside the camp.