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If Corporations buy the Government, how can one expect laws from said Government to do anything but benefit those that have bought it?

The difference is there is now the technology to enforce the desires of the ruling class. We aren't approaching 1984? Tell that to cities who are installing street lights that can film and eavesdrop or the surveillance state that is NYC.

As a native racially indigenous American, I can protest to a coming golden age in america.

there was a significant stretch of time during which the USA was not imperialist and expansive,

I think there was a stretch of time where US imperialism and expansion 'trickled down' (lol) to the people, more than it does now. I am speaking of course about pre-RonnieRayGun.

Citizenship begins at firearm ownership.

Laws only exist because police armed with firearms enforce them through the barrel of a firearm.

What good is the constitution without the means to back it up with?

Most youth today are interested in dubstep, macbooks, updating facebook statuses, posting buttholes on gonewild, slutwalks and gay marriage. They have no desire nor inclination to get their hands dirty and bloody to defend their liberties that they so take for granted.

Ah, the popular society is in decline and the youth are to blame.

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” - Socrates

Too bad the aged have been saying this of the youth for 2000+ years and yet through that entire time period humanity has done nothing but progress. It's almost as if.... the young eventually become older, more mature, and then draw on that wisdom to make decisions in middle age. Crazy. That's the reason you see people like Justin Amash and the Occupy Wall Street crowd which unfortunately lost all of it's strength.

The reason that "crowd" lost their strength is because is was overpowered by men with chemical weapons and night sticks. Then it was time to elevate the force level and meet those armed thugs with firearms. Up the ante. Take out their handlers.

You know this to be true. Search your feelings.

The only way to get humanity to give up greed is to make the cost higher than the payoff.

Oh what's that? You are going to remove your employees health benefits?

BAM! Shot right in the fucking head.

What's that the next CEO who replaces you wants to take away the employees pensions? BAM! Right in the fucking head.

Sooner or later they will determine that owning a 200 foot yacht is not very good when you have to rob your employees to get the money and they kill you so you cannot use said boat.

You know this is the only way. You know it to be true.

Hey! Leave dubstep alone! Pop music is what really trashes the kids. Besides, ever shoot a gun to dubstep or electronica? It's like you're Neo.

Srsly though guise, the youth is simply over stimulated in so many ways that they become addicted to the stimulation. Why care about losing liberties when you might lose your plug-in?

Citizenship begins at firearm ownership.

You can be a citizen and choose to not own a firearm.

They have no desire nor inclination to get their hands dirty and bloody to defend their liberties that they so take for granted.

Yeah, it sucks that kids these days aren't obsessed with killing people and the "glory" of war. There's no way freedom can be obtained without murdering people.

As far as the 2nd amendment is concerned, I think you have it backwards. Not only is gun ownership at an all time high, but most people on reddit seem to be liberals who support gun rights. Just head over to r/guns and you'll realize that many of them, like reddit in general, are liberal. Even when guns are brought up elsewhere you usually see gun control supporters getting massive downvotes.

global progressive revolution

There is nothing in the constitution saying that we should be isolated from the rest of the world.

smoke free public space, free education and healthcare

I don't see how these are forbidden by the constitution either or could be considered to be bad for the people.

We have, as a nation, lost our motherfucking minds over this left versus right bullshit.

Gotta agree with you there.

We have allowed our runaway government to take away all of our best tools

Such as?

Here, Gallup poll. Self-reporting, but it should be relatively accurate. The long and short of it, is that gun ownership is the highest it's been for about 20 years.

There's also a record low number of people supporting a handgun ban and, despite recent shootings, the majority of people are in favor of less strict gun control.

This is all from Gallup, of course, but I'm not aware of any methdological flaws with the studies I linked you to. It's possible that your friends opinion changed in ways different from the general trend. That is something that is in no way unusual.

What you mean "our", kemosabe? You are aware that this internet thing isn't exclusively American?

The internet isn't, but reddit is a US site with US headquarters owned by US company that happens to have foreign users.

I don't think that hardly any of them are "puppet" accounts. I think that, as you state, propaganda has just done its job well.

Why stop at back 5 years. Congress has not declared war for 60 years, but that has not stopped them from pissing away my money to keep the chattel scared and in line. It cracks me up when people point at dictators in their palaces and how terrible they are while praising the idiots we are forced to choose between. The partisan sideshow is just a mechanism to give the illusion of legitimacy. The winner of the majority of elections in the US is voter apathy in the existing choices.

What they may or may not be able to do to amendment 2 is less worrisome to me than what they've already done to Amendments 1 and 4.

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I absolutely agree, how dare people disagree with your precious constitution. After all, it is perfect and eternally unquestionable! Well, apart from - you know - little details such as slavery and suffrage.

Also, the 2nd amendment is somehow part of the "founding principles of the constitution".

You may want to look up suffrage. And while slavery wasn't sanctioned by the constitution, it also wasn't forbidden, and was acknowledged by things like the 3/5th compromise.

allegiance to history is a bad idea

thats what they all say

It's a campaign of distraction. The magic trick of "Look at this" while something is going on out of ones frame of sight. soon there will be enough power in the hands of the people who money and power of humanity, and they are achieving this under the radar by means of distracting the masses with other things. I have my ipod and girls to chase and social status to maintain and I am so hip, I do not have time to waste on what 30 years from now will look like.

I know, I was speaking sarcasm. I just think its crazy how un aware people are. It is insane to me. I know a couple very very intelligent people and even they just don't know and or wont accept that not everything is as it seems.

Hey flytape.

For the record, some of us are going the other way. I have never been anti-gun, but I had never owned a gun until about a year ago. Now I have several and I practice fairly often.

I am still a 'liberal' but I don't really know what that means anymore. I don't support Obama policies really at all (the idea of universal healthcare is rad, the reality is fucking stupid, etc).

Anyway, several years ago I would have probably said "guns are cool, but you don't really need one". Now a days, I hang out over in r/collapse.

In closing, I also completely agree with you about the Bush/Obama thing. Bush was so clearly a 'vilain' that the left was quick to protest. The left is however, currently snowed to think that Obama actually represents them. So it is not time to protest anyone. Meanwhile, OWS sure got its ass kicked under Obama, didn't it?

Doing what I can bro.

What is strange is that I went and got an MA in sociology (the most liberal of the liberal arts lol) and came out of the degree more "conservative". Of course, the main lesson is that the "liberal/conservative" split is a false dichotomy meant to keep wingnuts of various flavors from uniting. Wingnuts, meaning us, of course. And in the best meaning of the word.

<3

If you live in the Pacific Northwest I will buy you a cup of coffee.

Half the principles "this nation" was founded on are shit. Hth

The Constitution is a magnificent document, but it is not perfect - this is why there are so many amendments to it.

One of the greatest anachronisms of the Constituion is the so called "right to bear arms" as if this were the very definition of freedom. It is not.

The primary purpose and/or effect of owning guns is to assert your "freedom" over other people's freedom. Every year the ultimate freedom of tens of thousands of Americans is extinguished (either deliberately or by accident) because of your ludicrous "right" to own a death stick.

I don't believe that humans have an inalienable right to strut about brandishing handguns, no. The stats are very clear that handgun ownership causes death rather than prevents it. This has a net negative impact on citizens' freedom.

I have no problems with the controlled ownership of hunting rifles and shotguns.

Turning it around, do you believe anyone should be allowed to own an Uzi?

[Citation Needed] I would love to see those "stats" &#3232;_&#3232;

Criminals will always be able to aquire firearms, all gun laws do are disarm law abiding citizens. After all cops aren't even legally obligated to protect you. That responsibility falls squarely on your shoulders.

The right to bear arms is there to protect you from criminals, the violently insane, foreign invaders, and out of control domestic governments. If you lose the right to defend yourself, you lose everything.

Cars and alcohol (Not even mixed!) kill far more people than guns every year on their own (excluding armed conflicts), better start a grassroots campaign to get those Death Mobiles off the road!

And that Death Juice needs to go, WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone who believes the primary purpose of a car is to kill people. And if you don't think that, why the hell are you equating cars and guns?

Where did I say that was the primary purpose of a car? Seriously, where? Auto accidents kill At least 30,000 people per year in the US. Where as there are only on average 40-50 thousand gun related INJURIES per year

Because I'm pointing out how stupid it is to outlaw a tool just because it is dangerous. A firearm is just that, a tool for your protection. Which every year saves countless lives.. There is a reason you don't often hear about the plethora of instances where a firearm saved someones life or property from a criminal, because if you did you might start to look at weapons as the tools they are, not a "death stick" that kills people all willy-nilly

BTW, you still haven't provided any sources for your claims

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You almost held it together there, buddy.

I would just refer you the fact that I did say I had no problems with the controlled ownership of certain weapons, which is hardly a fundamentalist viewpoint.

The research I've seen suggests that looser fun control laws reduce crime. For example, Florida after loosening up gun control laws. Before, you had to have your fun in plain sight in your vehicle, you'd have to leave it on the seat. Criminals would look in your car when you were stopped at a light, and if no gun was visible you just got carjacked.

They changed the law so you can carry concealed in your car. Carjackings went way down because they didnt know if you had a gun or not!

So you can't think of any exceptions. Children, the clinically insane and convicted criminals should be allowed to own an Uzi? How about rocket-propelled grenade launchers?

The stats are very clear that handgun ownership causes death rather than prevents it.

No they aren't. Saying that gun ownership cases more gun violence is the same as saying that drug legalization causes more drug addicts and available birth control causes more teen pregnancies. These are all bullshit stats which are only parroted by ignorant people who have a personal issue with guns/drugs/BC.

There's no point equating gun ownership with drug legalization, because the stats aren't on your side.

Drug use is a personal choice. The legalization of drugs does not envision making it legal to inject OTHER PEOPLE with your drugs. Gun ownership kills OTHER PEOPLE and the USA has the death-by-firearm stats to prove it.

So show me these stats. If gun control lowers gun violence, then we should see very little gun crimes in Chicago, D.C. and New York, where pistols are illegal (except D.C. just changed the law I believe). Quite the opposite, these cities have very high rates of crime.

The legalization of drugs does not envision making it legal to inject OTHER PEOPLE with your drugs. Gun ownership kills OTHER PEOPLE and the USA has the death-by-firearm stats to prove it.

Wrong again. These are comparable because many drug addicts commit crimes to fund their habit just like some people with firearms use them illegally. The majority of drug users and gun owners do not commit violence against other people and are law abiding citizens (except for possession, in the case of drugs).

Another rant about the government taking away guns. Free education? What world do you live in where the student debt economy isn't SOARING? Free health care? Keep dreaming.

Libertarians always seem to be ignorant, disgruntled right wing paranoids. The world is fucked because of corruption and you're going on about the New World Order and imaginary threats to your right to carry a gun. Fighting Agenda 21 again?

Keep sucking Wayne LaPierre's balls - but you might try insulting everyone on Reddit a little less in your headline if you expect a legitimate conversation.

Thanks for that bracing clarification.

What exactly did you find insulting about my headline?

Oh, I don't know, how about the part where you say the majority of Redditors are against the principles of the Constitution? This is a stupid, self-serving, and meaningless assertion.

What do I think about it? Personally, I like the Glock 21, it's got a nice light trigger pull. Americans have the right to bear arms - it's in the Constitution because people thought it important enough to establish that right.

Now, do I think it's too easy for civilians to get guns in America? Yes. Do I think that small arms contribute to high murder rates in U.S. cities? I definitely do. Do I think that high capacity mags and assault rifles are overkill for civilian fire arms? Yes.

What pisses me off the most is the economy of arms in America, and how arms sales are tied to the fear tactics of motherfucking asshole cocksuckers like the NRA and the gun faggotry of Wayne LaPierre. The waves of sheep buying up weapons when Obama was re-elected are the perfect example - Obama's administration has done NOTHING to restrict access to guns, yet the propaganda machine that propagates throughout the conspiracy wing-nut crowd drives demand with straight up lies and obfuscation. - all the while in the employ of the arms manufacturers - you know, proud members of the military industrial complex.

How do you create a market for a tool that isn't going to be used 95% of the time and just sits in a drawer? Hunting (which I support unless some it involves running game with a dog-pack and GPS collars) is a different story. Then again, I'm not hunting game with a .44 mag or an AR-15 with a suppressor and a 100 round mag.

The issue is complicated. But the propaganda is working overtime and your submission contributes to it.

Today they call me antiquated for possessing firearms.

Liberal friends? Give me a break. Your post is a pose and a played one at that.

Sonmi, you won't be well received here, unfortunately, but you're dead on correct.

This guy probably has a giant american flag on his ford f150 with a sign under it saying "if you're offended by this, fuck you".

He's a paranoid fighting a battle against enemies who don't exist. Of course, because we tell him he's a nutjob and that he just might be wrong, we'll be downvoted and called shills, or sockpuppets, or whatever the term of the day is for people who disagree with them.

I fail to see how OP said free education was a good thing. He points out that the "Crazy New World Order" has promises that they try to sell the public. Mainly, the promises will be the removal of basic rights and privacy first and foremost. Free education? L-O-L They claim free education. Will they provide it? No. If they do, it will be the education to place people on their side. Free health care? Ha! An obvious system to inflate currency and secretly create economic crisis.

And worst of all you claim to know the system is corrupt but, you stopped there. You found out that things are fucked up and stopped there. You stopped your own education. Why? For what? So you can go into this subreddit and embarrass yourself? How about you make claims we don't know what we're talking about, IN OUR OWN SUBREDDIT, find out what the corruption in the system wants.

And if you want a legitimate conversation, take your own advice: How about you try not insulting the people you're talking to.

YOUR subreddit!? Of all the megalomaniacal monkeyshit I've read on this sub - that statement takes Fuckhead of the Week. "OUR OWN SUBREDDIT" LOL, you strutting little Napoleanic nitwit.

Show me a single instance of the American government promising free health care. Show me where our government promises free education. Or are you bloviating about the United Nations and their mighty unchecked power? Show me where the UN promises free education to Americans, or free health care to Americans.

Why does the UN have to say it when the US administration says it? Did you sleep through obamacare? That's the beginning of "free healthcare". Free education: public school system. I guess you're right. They aren't promising it any more because its already here. It's quite obvious you don't belong here because communities should not fight amongst themselves. If you wish to continue acting this way I suggest you take it to /r/ienjoybeinganass

I don't beliong here because I don't agree with your fantasies? Do you understand just how ridiculous that makes you sound?

Here's a little reality for your oxygen-starved brain:

free education = public school.

Public school in america has been a reality since DAY ONE First public school in America was opened in 1635, and not only that still exists! Watch out for that New World Order, when you're dodging Algonquin insurgents on your way to His Majesty's socialist indoctrination center in the Colonies.

Obamacare!? Ain't nothing free about Obamacare, son, it was compromised by corporate interests from HMOs to unions to Big Pharma during the entire process. Real reform in the form of single payer? That was taken off the table immediately and media blacked it out, Congress refused to discuss it, and Obama would no longer mention it due to political weakness. There's no case for Obamacare, which makes people BUY insurance leading to free healthcare. It's another loosely constructed talking point fed into the conspiracy network (which is now entirely compromised by corporate and government activities.)

As far as the idea that communities shouldn't fight amongst themselves, I beg to differ. Every community is driven by the honesty with which it is willing to address the voices that compose it. My voice is here to specifically be a counter to all the lazy-brained, unsupported, baloney salad sandwiches which everyone seems to be scarfing down with glee and calling it information.

I'm a fly in the buttermilk, a wrench in the gears, i'm the cog that doesn't fit, i'm that song you hear in the frakkin ship! And I'm not here to be lovey dovey with operatives or intellectual opportunists who prey on the newly-illuminated like Scientologists at a plane crash site. I've been following these affairs since the mid-Eighties, sir, and I'm seeing a rigidity of opinion derail good information practices. I oppose it.

A legitimate conversation can't take place when the entire premise is rigged. Fake nostalgia

invigorating our youth with any allegiance to history

An ambiguous statement written by some thirtysomething meant to evoke trumped up emotions of the Illuminated Outsider. The Never Ending Story? It's a fucking joke of a sentiment, sir or madam, and I dismiss it as such.

In fact, this entire post is psy-ops designed to shift the allegiances of the conspiracy movement away from supporting their traditional allies, the environmentalists. As is the Agenda 21 anti-movement. It's anti-movement because it derives entirely from corporate disinformation tactics as opposed to real movements that involve people's actual personal opinions and grass roots actions.

I speak against it. Strongly. And I will continue to call out this propaganda when I see it.

I know 3 people with a combined military and government career of 75 years. 1 of them has 15 years of training police officers. They all know that there's a new world order and they know a good bit of their plans. I guess people with high level clearance is just a bunch of conspiracy. We even politician openly speaking of a new/one world order. I guess that's just a bad April fools joke?

Fine, be an opponent. Be and ass. Be some one who thinks that just because you don't see the blatant evidence, you don't believe the "fantasy".

Did I claim obamacare was free? No, I said it was the beginning of "free healthcare", a system to create inflation and economic stress. The public school system is an example of free education. Now, the idea of such would be fine if the history books weren't obviously censored and skewed, full of propaganda.

One last thing, if you want to help people by pointing out propaganda and lead them to truth; calling them and idiot and being rude, as well as, brash is not the way to do it. You can oppose a view point without belittling people.

Thank you for having an opposing view point. Thank you for your time. Have a nice day.

I know 3 people with a combined military and government career of 75 years. 1 of them has 15 years of training police officers. They all know that there's a new world order and they know a good bit of their plans. I guess people with high level clearance is just a bunch of conspiracy. We even politician openly speaking of a new/one world order. I guess that's just a bad April fools joke?

Fine, be an opponent. Be and ass. Be some one who thinks that just because you don't see the blatant evidence, you don't believe the "fantasy".

Did I claim obamacare was free? No, I said it was the beginning of "free healthcare", a system to create inflation and economic stress. The public school system is an example of free education. Now, the idea of such would be fine if the history books weren't obviously censored and skewed, full of propaganda.

One last thing, if you want to help people by pointing out propaganda and lead them to truth; calling them and idiot and being rude, as well as, brash is not the way to do it. You can oppose a view point without belittling people.

Thank you for having an opposing view point. Thank you for your time. Have a nice day.