One of the most powerful images from Columbine was this one showing Harris and Klebold in the act. The chilling silhouette of Klebold with the TEC-9 did more to advance the cause for tighter gun controls than 10,000 words of rhetoric could ever accomplish.
Where's the image of a remorseless Adam Lanza with his Bushmaster AR-15 walking down a Sandyhook hallway?
I don't want to see bodies, blood or gore. I have NO desire to see dead children or teachers. I don't even need to see the dead perpetrator.
I just want to see bullet holes in the walls. I want to see spent brass on tile. I want to see shattered plate glass and crime scene tape. (I understand not having this sort of evidence from the Aurora shooting. There is going to be a trial, there are survivors, witnesses etc. Even with this fact there were plenty of pictures of physical evidence outside the theater.)
Essentially, I want this tragedy treated JUST like every other shooting the macabre media splashes across the headlines and in continuous coverage. If the goal is gun control, why not use all imagery available just like they have in the past?
I don't want to believe that this is anything worse than it is. It is already one of the worst days in American history.
..but if they announce that there was a "system malfunction" and there is no video and seal the crime scene photos since there will be no trial and announce that Lanza's hard drive is unrecoverable because of the damage and the city demolishes the building because they "want the community to have some closure"....
They can shut a hell of a lot of people right the fuck up with the release of just a few bits of impersonal evidence that is respectful of the families and the community but yet totally debunks most if not all the conspiratorial hypotheses put forward. They could inspire real outrage and a groundswell of support for any laws they want to pass. An unstoppable wave of anti-gun fervor greater than what we see now could be stirred up by the images that should exist.
M.E. H. Wayne Carver said it himself
you can control the situation, depending on the photographer and I have very good photographers.
I do NOT want the release of any images of dead children.
My point is that if you want a powerful image to sell the country on gun control, show the public security video still frame shots of Lanza walking up to the front door of Sandy Hook Elementary with his AR-15 in hand. Law Enforcement have released images like this for other incidents.
They release them for other incidents when they need help identifying suspects. There is no such need here(except in the minds of people who both think it was staged, and think it would be impossible for them to stage it to play out exactly how they claimed).
There was no need to identify Klebold or Harris at Columbine or Cho at VT. Yet for both of these incidents images of the assailants holding firearms were front and center in most forms of media for months after the event. They were powerful images used to emotionally charge the discourse and sway public opinion. This time we get a small B&W portrait and an old family photo showing a very non-threatening socially awkward young man.
Every single person who saw Adam Lanza that day is dead. To my knowledge, that is unique feature to this incident.
(AFP) – No video has been released of Adam Lanza entering the SandyHook school but the school had recently spent $300,000 on a new security system including state of the art video cameras and door locks. One of the big questions is how did Adam Lanza get into the school did someone let him in as he was carrying an assault rifle? Was the door left open? Did he shoot out the door? This is a key question from the event. No pictures exist of the crime scene. No one was wounded. No one survived. Out of 20 no one survived? Maybe because they blocked the road to ambulances?
One of the big questions is how did Adam Lanza get into the school did someone let him in as he was carrying an assault rifle?
No, he shot out the glass.
No pictures exist of the crime scene.
No pictures have been released. Of course they exist.
No one was wounded. No one survived.
No children who were wounded survived. There was at least one wounded adult who survived and quite a few other children and adult survivors.
Out of 20 no one survived? Maybe because they blocked the road to ambulances?
There were two ambulances standing by while police searched the building. As soon as it was cleared, the ambulances were called to the scene. The police checked the children for signs of life and as the first ambulance pulled up, there was a policeman holding a child, trying to stop the bleeding by holding his hands over the wounds. The officer told the EMT, "call dispatch and tell them to send everything."
Another officer radioed "see if surrounding towns can send EMS personnel. We’re running out pretty quick."
Sadly, of course, as they checked the many bodies, they found only one other with any signs of life.
How else did everyone get it? If it was leaked, youd see multiple articles saying how school video was leaked. Just slow down, and read what you post. :)
Go read what I posted and look at the article it has the surveillance stuff in there. I don't get how you can be so dense so I'm done replying after this.
All the crime scene photos(and the video) from Columbine were leaked and not released. The police did release some personal videos of them but not from the attack.
You won't find anything to dispute that claim because it's correct.
I understand your concern about these videos... especially since there is so many oddities surrounding this incident. But when faced with your question my mind goes to another question... Why would they show the videos? There is an official story of what happened and they have told us what transpired. If what they have told us is true then why would they even need to show such video? I understand that you are looking at this from a skeptical standpoint and I also am somewhat skeptical of the official story. But look at it from their perspective... there is no reason to show the public such video.
Edit: I just wanted to add that the goal of the people involved in this situation is not to validate what has happened... to these people what has happened is real enough in itself and does not need to be justified.
What you are suggesting is blind trust. Osama Bin Laden is dead because they told us he was. They say they dropped the body out to sea. I don't believe sh** unless I see evidence. That is how science and our justice system works, and I can't believe the inconsistent, proof lacking news stories people gobble up these days. I'm not saying I know what happened, but I sure as hell don't believe it if I don't see some solid footage.
If what they have told us is true then why would they even need to show such video?
they don't. but they should understand that many people will not believe it happened otherwise. that plus the millions of people questioning the performances of actors = they should have shown something a little more convincing. terrible job, like they don't even care.. it's become a serial joke.
I believe the Osama Bin Laden studio is currently available. Possibly, they are there right now working up a blurry movie production just as believable as the OSB videos.
This is the one thing I don't get. People around me at work and people on my facebook want to dismiss investigation because "kids". I even saw some little 19 year old girl post that conspiracy theorists re: sandy hook should "fuck right off" because "kids" and "guns" and "crazy people". I am not giving my opinion on Sandy Hook either way (and I have one) but shouldn't the people that do not think we should figure out truths about children's deaths "fuck right off"? Seems fair enough to me.
Help who? Only the conspiracy theorists. You think the authorities care enough about placating the twisted beliefs of a conspiracy theorist at the risk of sabotaging a criminal investigation?
the only video of the people leaving a theater isn't very convincing. but hey at least there's a trail of blood... and a suspect, and a trial (though it will be a secret trial) even kafka would be amazed.
43 comments
23 maxxforce 2013-01-17
One of the most powerful images from Columbine was this one showing Harris and Klebold in the act. The chilling silhouette of Klebold with the TEC-9 did more to advance the cause for tighter gun controls than 10,000 words of rhetoric could ever accomplish.
Where's the image of a remorseless Adam Lanza with his Bushmaster AR-15 walking down a Sandyhook hallway?
I don't want to see bodies, blood or gore. I have NO desire to see dead children or teachers. I don't even need to see the dead perpetrator.
I just want to see bullet holes in the walls. I want to see spent brass on tile. I want to see shattered plate glass and crime scene tape. (I understand not having this sort of evidence from the Aurora shooting. There is going to be a trial, there are survivors, witnesses etc. Even with this fact there were plenty of pictures of physical evidence outside the theater.)
Essentially, I want this tragedy treated JUST like every other shooting the macabre media splashes across the headlines and in continuous coverage. If the goal is gun control, why not use all imagery available just like they have in the past?
I don't want to believe that this is anything worse than it is. It is already one of the worst days in American history.
..but if they announce that there was a "system malfunction" and there is no video and seal the crime scene photos since there will be no trial and announce that Lanza's hard drive is unrecoverable because of the damage and the city demolishes the building because they "want the community to have some closure"....
They can shut a hell of a lot of people right the fuck up with the release of just a few bits of impersonal evidence that is respectful of the families and the community but yet totally debunks most if not all the conspiratorial hypotheses put forward. They could inspire real outrage and a groundswell of support for any laws they want to pass. An unstoppable wave of anti-gun fervor greater than what we see now could be stirred up by the images that should exist.
M.E. H. Wayne Carver said it himself
Will we ever see these images? Time will tell.
Edit: Formatting.
5 kidbudi 2013-01-17
exactly.. where were these things in the aurora shooting as well?
2 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
Those images weren't released. They were leaked.
-2 [deleted] 2013-01-17
[deleted]
9 maxxforce 2013-01-17
I'll state this again to be clear.
I do NOT want the release of any images of dead children.
My point is that if you want a powerful image to sell the country on gun control, show the public security video still frame shots of Lanza walking up to the front door of Sandy Hook Elementary with his AR-15 in hand. Law Enforcement have released images like this for other incidents.
-1 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
They release them for other incidents when they need help identifying suspects. There is no such need here(except in the minds of people who both think it was staged, and think it would be impossible for them to stage it to play out exactly how they claimed).
1 maxxforce 2013-01-17
There was no need to identify Klebold or Harris at Columbine or Cho at VT. Yet for both of these incidents images of the assailants holding firearms were front and center in most forms of media for months after the event. They were powerful images used to emotionally charge the discourse and sway public opinion. This time we get a small B&W portrait and an old family photo showing a very non-threatening socially awkward young man.
Every single person who saw Adam Lanza that day is dead. To my knowledge, that is unique feature to this incident.
0 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
They were leaked not released by the police for columbine and all the photos for VT were media photos.
14 [deleted] 2013-01-17
(AFP) – No video has been released of Adam Lanza entering the SandyHook school but the school had recently spent $300,000 on a new security system including state of the art video cameras and door locks. One of the big questions is how did Adam Lanza get into the school did someone let him in as he was carrying an assault rifle? Was the door left open? Did he shoot out the door? This is a key question from the event. No pictures exist of the crime scene. No one was wounded. No one survived. Out of 20 no one survived? Maybe because they blocked the road to ambulances?
Link
1 kahirsch 2013-01-17
This is not from Agence-France Presse.
No, he shot out the glass.
No pictures have been released. Of course they exist.
No children who were wounded survived. There was at least one wounded adult who survived and quite a few other children and adult survivors.
There were two ambulances standing by while police searched the building. As soon as it was cleared, the ambulances were called to the scene. The police checked the children for signs of life and as the first ambulance pulled up, there was a policeman holding a child, trying to stop the bleeding by holding his hands over the wounds. The officer told the EMT, "call dispatch and tell them to send everything."
Another officer radioed "see if surrounding towns can send EMS personnel. We’re running out pretty quick."
Sadly, of course, as they checked the many bodies, they found only one other with any signs of life.
Source: this article and listening to the EMS radio.
-2 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
When do they ever release the security videos or photos on things like this? (Mass shootings)
2 acidbass303 2013-01-17
Columbine
0 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
That was an unauthorized leak.
1 acidbass303 2013-01-17
No it wasnt, it was released to the media. Got a link that it was leaked?
-1 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
Got a link that it was an official release? Go look and you'll find sources to support my assertion.
1 acidbass303 2013-01-17
I didnt make the initial claim that it was leaked, you did.
Got a link to it?
-1 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
You made up the initial claim that the police released it. But here you go http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1859887.stm
Your welcome.
1 acidbass303 2013-01-17
The article you posted only talked about crime scene photos being leaked. Not video. The video stills were given out to the public.
http://www.columbine-online.com/killers/columbine-photos-pictures-eric-harris-dylan-klebold.htm
-1 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
Where in that does it say the surveillance video was released by the police?
0 acidbass303 2013-01-17
How else did everyone get it? If it was leaked, youd see multiple articles saying how school video was leaked. Just slow down, and read what you post. :)
1 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
Go read what I posted and look at the article it has the surveillance stuff in there. I don't get how you can be so dense so I'm done replying after this.
All the crime scene photos(and the video) from Columbine were leaked and not released. The police did release some personal videos of them but not from the attack.
You won't find anything to dispute that claim because it's correct.
0 acidbass303 2013-01-17
You added (and the video) part. How much more disingenuous can you get?
THe article only talks about crime scene photos. They didnt have the leaked photos to show so they showed the next best thing.
-7 VanillaPudding 2013-01-17
I understand your concern about these videos... especially since there is so many oddities surrounding this incident. But when faced with your question my mind goes to another question... Why would they show the videos? There is an official story of what happened and they have told us what transpired. If what they have told us is true then why would they even need to show such video? I understand that you are looking at this from a skeptical standpoint and I also am somewhat skeptical of the official story. But look at it from their perspective... there is no reason to show the public such video.
Edit: I just wanted to add that the goal of the people involved in this situation is not to validate what has happened... to these people what has happened is real enough in itself and does not need to be justified.
5 evoltap 2013-01-17
What you are suggesting is blind trust. Osama Bin Laden is dead because they told us he was. They say they dropped the body out to sea. I don't believe sh** unless I see evidence. That is how science and our justice system works, and I can't believe the inconsistent, proof lacking news stories people gobble up these days. I'm not saying I know what happened, but I sure as hell don't believe it if I don't see some solid footage.
4 frolltrucker 2013-01-17
they don't. but they should understand that many people will not believe it happened otherwise. that plus the millions of people questioning the performances of actors = they should have shown something a little more convincing. terrible job, like they don't even care.. it's become a serial joke.
6 doubleherpes 2013-01-17
where are the surveillance videos of everything? why aren't police dashcams livestreamed to a publicly accessible website, for example?
13 [deleted] 2013-01-17
Multiple Choice:
A) You can't handle the truth.
B) Different rules for different people.
C) Criminals (Government Officials) don't want video proof of their crimes.
D) All of the above.
-4 Wrestlingisgood 2013-01-17
E) The video of children being executed should not be shown on public airwaves
F) There is no footage, Maybe they did not have a camera
6 maxzutter 2013-01-17
There are three security cameras at Sandy Hook Elementary. The footage was handed up to one of the higher government agencies, where it will stay.
2 ronintetsuro 2013-01-17
Got stored on the same shelf as all the hotel and gas station footage of the Pentagon on 9/11.
0 [deleted] 2013-01-17
It was in the same plastic storage container that had the moon footage that was lost by NASA.
1 downtowne 2013-01-17
I believe the Osama Bin Laden studio is currently available. Possibly, they are there right now working up a blurry movie production just as believable as the OSB videos.
-11 Wrestlingisgood 2013-01-17
Good, no one should see images of these childrens final moments. It is just sick.
12 drakuer 2013-01-17
at least show a picture or video of Lanza alive at the school.
0 [deleted] 2013-01-17
This is the one thing I don't get. People around me at work and people on my facebook want to dismiss investigation because "kids". I even saw some little 19 year old girl post that conspiracy theorists re: sandy hook should "fuck right off" because "kids" and "guns" and "crazy people". I am not giving my opinion on Sandy Hook either way (and I have one) but shouldn't the people that do not think we should figure out truths about children's deaths "fuck right off"? Seems fair enough to me.
1 [deleted] 2013-01-17
Who said anything about public airwaves? By all means though, let's continue with the sentimental PC crap that seems to be working so well.
G) Stop making excuses for an incompetent & criminal government.
1 Makaveli777 2013-01-17
where are the surveillence videos of the aurora shootings? they don't show us because somethings not right about it.
5 [deleted] 2013-01-17
It also happens to be an ongoing criminal investigation, so releasing evidence in the form of surveillance videos would obviously be impossible.
0 Makaveli777 2013-01-17
true. but at least showing us evidence that is was only one shooter on each occasion would help
2 [deleted] 2013-01-17
Help who? Only the conspiracy theorists. You think the authorities care enough about placating the twisted beliefs of a conspiracy theorist at the risk of sabotaging a criminal investigation?
0 Makaveli777 2013-01-17
sure. I guess its the peoples fault anyway that they'd allow themselves to get so far manipulated.
2 frolltrucker 2013-01-17
the only video of the people leaving a theater isn't very convincing. but hey at least there's a trail of blood... and a suspect, and a trial (though it will be a secret trial) even kafka would be amazed.
1 ronintetsuro 2013-01-17
Trust me, if any of this CCTV footage showed what they wanted us to believe it showed, we'd be sick of seeing it by now.
0 joseph177 2013-01-17
They need more time to cherry pick a few frames to 'leak'.
0 haveyouconsideredthe 2013-01-17
They were leaked not released by the police for columbine and all the photos for VT were media photos.