I have not been following this closely, and I have no idea whether you have a point or not, but whatever anyone says, I applaud you for at least asking the question and putting it out there.

This is a poorly conceived "theory". Any good conspiracy theory worth any consideration would be looking at the motives, and results. Everything I'm seeing about this story is making people distrust figures of authority and the methods being used. In the end, this will be a net loss for convincing people to accept more "security".

you know what? his reasons why may be off, but the rest of his theory does make sense, as i wondered how they wouldn't get the slightest clue from the foot prints of where he is. He's also not trying super hard to convince anyone, nor does he say that he's absolutely postive this is the case. He just writing some ideas he had that he'd like to share. Perhaps he is not a theorist by profession, and this is just how the situation struck him, which is why you seem to think this is not a "good theory." He never did claim to be a good conspiracy theorist. This did brought some valuable points to my attention though. I'd really like to believe there is a hero like him out there though.

I just can't believe how quickly they caught Luka Magnotta in another country, but they've yet to find this guy yet who they seem to believe is still in LA.

What does lead me to believe he is real is the fact that his "manifesto" has been changed a few times. there are a couple pictures of him. it's believable a man of his age just recently made a facebook account.

then there is that (to my knowledge) we haven't heard from friends or family, how convenient that his family does not speak to him anymore. all we know is a man who wishes to remain anonymous and has had his voice aletred on the news for "safety reasons" that says "he does not know him personally, but remembers him years ago from police training because he stood out with a great shot. this man is dangerous and will kill you." how does a man who didn't know him, but went to training some time ago know if he is a good man or dangerous man or not? wtf?

many great points to support both sides.

Let's examine his main theory then:

• Dorner does not exist.
• Dorner was created to make people accept drones and a police state.

He supports this with:

• "the testimonies from his former boss at the police department (the man who fired him) and a guy he said he looked up to in the navy, they both said that they could not remember him"
• "capitol hill hearings on the use of drones on American citizens"... "gets LA ready for the soon to be police state full with police officers shooting citizens, hunting down people with drones, and all out panic/fear"

I shoot this down with:

• People are less likely to accept any type of authority when police are shooting people up at random looking for Dorner.
• People are less likely to accept any type of authority when police are painted as corrupt.
• People are less afraid of Dorner than they are of the police, and thus no real help to making people accept drones. People are focused on the LAPD's actions, not drones.
• There are more creative ways to "false flag" people into accepting drones and a police state. E.G. Stage a false flag where "militia members" shoot police officers trying to serve a warrant.

Again, his theory is junk.

You are falling into the classic trap of applying logic to a new conspiracy theory. How Dare you.

Seriously though, your arguments should not be in the negative for votes, I up-voted to mitigate, but common people.

agreed - people use the 'preparing city X for martial law/whatever else' is is a fairly thoughtless point

It's still thoughtless. You can say it's true at any point. The only requirement is your own paranoia.

No, not really. Maybe if you were dumb, and given though logical processes you seem to be applying, that might be the case.

You act as if there was some recent application of martial law, or gun rights were actually revoked. None of that happened, though don't let your own ignorance get in the way.

I'll just put this as a retort to your points.

1. People are less likely to have support for LOCAL authorities such as the LAPD. But a federal authority that controls drones based in Nevada or Arizona could be considered more trust worthy because it could watch cops and follow vehicles with less collateral damage.

2. People are less likely to trust LOCAL public authorities but they again could be persuaded to "hire" a privatized police force that has command centers far away and are painted as being less corrupt than those nasty local police.

3. Dorner is less frightening than the police but let me ask you this. Local law enforcement hires then fires a "man" that then goes apeshit and begins shooting at cops and killing related civilians. That's still a pretty terrifying thing. What if he despised latinos or transvestites or any other group because of something they'd done to him. A guy like Dorner could just crop up and start killing with his own personal arsenal. This becomes anti-gun ownership and pro-surveillance.

4. I agree that there are probably better ways to stage a false flag but this way has its merits. He's a hard to find local that's hiding out in LA. The cops can't find him and begin shooting anything they think resembles him. This would be so much better if there were drones that could just fly over and pick out all the cars that matched his and follow them until a suspect is found.

Now I'm not saying OP is right but at the same time there's always a chance.

The general public is not that sophisticated to ascribe federal agents as being more trustworthy because the local LAPD is corrupt. They probably don't know the difference between the county Sheriff and the LAPD.

Now I'm not saying OP is right but at the same time there's always a chance.

Chance, but very poor fit. Hence I'm saying it's junk.

Generally speaking, we "conspiracy theorists" are under attack, and the main stream media will use all the ammo possible to make these theories look like crap. We don't need weak theories such as this. It only add to the perception of looking like nuts. Weed out the bad ones, and keep the ones that provoke real questions.

Did anyone stop to think that what if this is what they want? For citizens to get behind a hero rather than be afraid of a boogeyman? I am not saying I agree or disagree with OP or you but what I am saying is conspiracy theorists have been gaining a lot of ground and this could easily be another technique they have devised for an agenda to push through.

im a little lost. what makes him a hero exactly?

He seems like a modern folk hero,... sticking it to the man? As far as media reporting goes, I have heard more about his supposed "supporters" than anything significant to the actual case. When the trail became cold in the search, the news shifted to covering the "corruption" angle. This is the realized Django Unchained drama.

but what makes him a hero? he killed a couple of people so Im confused

Exactly. Why is a "madman" being promoted, via media reporting of "support" groups? He isn't a hero and likely to be a figment of our shared imagination.

understood but why are people saying hes a hero? were the cops corrupt?

It seems to be the motive. Corruption has to be rife in a place like LA.

So ive gathered. is anything specific known about the cops he shot?

except now the MSM is reporting drone use

To add to two of your last points, maybe the installation of cameras, both static and mobile would help to mitigate the distrust held mutually by the public and police? More accountability I'd say. As for using more creative means to push an agenda, I'd bet that we have only seen the opening acts as of yet. Stay tuned.

like i said, his points may not be good, but the fact that he doesn't exist isn't too far fetched. and again who said the police are even aware?

i wasn't saying you were wrong, as your points are better than the OPs. I'm just saying anything is possible.

anything is possible.

The problem is that it detracts from more plausible and relevant theories. Weed out the junk and keep the good stuff. His theory is simply not plausible nor relevant.

As far as not finding footprints - fresh snow.

Dorner most likely walked into the wilderness in the middle of a snow storm and shot himself - it'll be years before anyone stumbles across his body.

My theory as well. He was mentally disturbed. He burned the truck, found a nice secluded spot (maybe pre planned) and then offed himself.

This also brings to mind the manhunt for Eric Rudolf. He hid for quite a while, not in the mountains where the search took place but near enough to Murphy, NC so that he was able to dumpster dive behind a local supermarket to keep himself fed.

how could that be possible if he just posted a fb status saying he didn't kill anyone? assuming that it is his account of course.

I've not heard about this FB status update... got a link?

front page of r/conpsiracy

there are many i have noticed posting on here a lot lately. mostly the same ones

On this Monday back to the grind, everyone I've spoken to about it knows of it on pretty simple terms. Basically, that an ex-cop went psycho because he got fired and there's a million dollar bounty on him. And the police accidentally shot up a car, thinking it was him. No outrage, no wondering why.

I should start asking people what they think that the government should do in response.

I've thought about this as well, and if it is a top down conspiracy, then they chose a horrible candidate. He is Good looking, honorable in his intentions, well spoken(from his manifesto) and in general a very likable character. I know a lot of people who have been telling me he is their hero.

The best thing that can be argued is that this is a case of "never let a good crisis go to waste", not a false flag.

It's easy to look at a clear psycho and assume he would've found some way to murder people. It's not so easy to say the same of a normal person. You can argue that if only he didn't have guns, that maybe he would've gotten help instead of resorting to the readily available violent path.

maybe the theory was to cover up the two other shootings...

That does not fly either. If you need to cover something up, simply make it look like a random shooting or gang violence. Don't invent someone that does not exist and do a state wide manhunt.

Then it's a case of "never let a good crisis go to waste", not a "black flag". E.G. "We can use this Dorner thing to make news stories about drones. Call up our news buddies and have them draw up a story about it."

i think you meant false flag

Yep. Thanks.

Still a very expensive false flag in terms of attempting to make people accept "security".

Expensive to the goals stated, not money.

It's not, but it's not overtly promoting this agenda either. That's the point. If this is a "false flag" with the intent of promoting drones, one can imagine far better ways of doing so. The drone stories are more congruent with a "never let a good crisis go to waste" scenario, where it was an afterthought to write stories about using drones to track Dorner. Thus I think "events are real, but the narrative is being manipulated". "Events are fake to create a narrative" does not fit.

Nice try. I did not admit I was wrong.

That last bit was wholly anti-productive. Because you knew of hearings and made a connection does not mean any intelligent person should have.

There's 99% of Reddit outside these walls who would read your posts here and tell you to use (oh yeah, you accidentally a 'use' there) a little bit of intelligence. Have some humility.

to gain public support of killing US citizens on US soil

People already accept killing an armed suspect that is hell bent on resisting arrest and killing officers. This is nothing new to the "programming".

Results: Christopher Dorner is being hunted down by drones on US soil.

This is way to elaborate to make people accept drones, as people are more focused on the LAPD and how the officers are acting, not the drones.

Please a little bit of intelligence here.

How about a little more critical thinking. Your logic is like solving a jigsaw puzzle with a hammer. Things simply don't fit.

And that last bit was even worse.

He at least existed when my childhood buddy went to Navy Flight school with him, at Vance AFB Enid ,OK

http://i.imgur.com/75Jhnhl.jpg

I applaud you for at least asking the question and putting it out there.

Is it possible that you're retarded?

Hey, you gotta applaud me for putting it out there!

You must be a big Glenn Beck fan.

Id be inclined to agree with you, if most of LA weren't treating Dorner like a freakin folk hero. If Dorner had run amok and targeted civilians/random folk and then took to the hills it'd be more plausible. As it stands now, having him be the Hero Gotham Deserves targeting corrupt cops and shit doesnt seem like itll benefit the government.

This is true, but perhaps they are also looking to ferret out people who think that killing police officers is a good idea.

Notce also how much social media has played into this whole thing. He posted his manifesto on facebook, people have been blowing up twitter about it, etc. It's a great way to monitor sentiments that are negative and even potentially violent to the establishment.

It's also great fuel for an assault weapons ban, which Dorner even calls for in his manifesto

The manifesto was modified by media to ensure a positive political agenda, the real manifesto doesnt mention Obama/ gun control at all.

The gun control part "read" differently than the rest, it seemed to have a different voice, by a different author that was emulating the rest of the writing.

I have only read one manifesto which contains no mention of gun-control or Obama....happen to have the other copy?

Just like that really weird screen shot someone took of some guy claiming to be a lower level DHS - it's all about information dissemination. The control of information flow.

Shit's genuinely scary.

You know I have thought about this, and sometimes it seems you need an extreme situation to make people agree to something they don't want. Like the TSA, Homeland Security, and The Iraq and Afghanistan wars would have never happened without 9/11. This may be the beginning af a campaign to have an increased drone presence in the US.

Maybe, but that campaign would be more effective if people were afraid of Dorner. I dont think the average citizen of LA is afraid of him, I think they are afraid of the police.

But it's not about what the people think in 2013. Maybe even in 2001, but not anymore, my friend. We don't declare wars anymore - we send in mercenaries after general conflict - they do what they want without the consent of the people. The nature of government is to poke - to prod - to test the waters for eternity, and they have been doing this decades now. It is all coming to fruition. They are realizing that they can literally get away with anything because the thought of armed revolt is so far from people's minds - people like Dorner and view him as hero? Yeah, so what? It's not like anyone's copying him or rallying behind him. They realize the people are just talk, they're all pussies.

Afraid of Police and ready for Drones as their less violent replacement?

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste"

In a way it does help the Illuminati. They don't want cops to treat people like human beings. Best way to accomplish this? Fear. Make the cops fear the populace at large. Make them fear "rogue" cops out to kill them. Make them fear libertarians, survivalists and "domestic terrorism".

When you're afraid for your life, you tend to forget about compassion for your fellow human being and just get your job done, no matter what it is.

What this sort of attention does is simple: turns the strong against the weak. What I mean to say is that the powers that be know of the differentiating views between police and citizens after having politely implanted all of this power to police officers for years, granting them substantial immunity from a number of different prosecutions and allowing them to operate above the law. This, obviously, has angered citizens over time and it's overflowing now. Now what you have here are people who don't give a shit about the police, and the police not respecting people who don't give a shit about them. You attack the moral and strength of a population of people, not by killing them and attacking them directly, but rather you get them to attack, belittle and destroy each other.

Unless they're hyping him up to bring him down?

Maybe they're three steps ahead of all of us?

Maybe info will come out totally disproving Dorner and making him seem like a fool. This would make the public feel guilty for ever doubting the police.

Drone use on US Soil.

That's a development that they will have to sell to the mainstream public before they can do it, and if the mainstream public in California isnt afraid of Dorner then their argument will fall a little flat, unless im vastly overestimated the popular support he has.

Wait... so the way people react to what happens is evidence of the motivation or cause of what happened?

I actually feel the same way about this situation, I'm an IT in the navy, so i figured of course he would have a digital footprint some where on the NMCI network, or on the old IT21 system, especially since he was a supposed LT. Theres nothing absolutely anywhere on him, and everything I can find dates back to 90 that i can look for. Very very weird. Ive never seen anything like it before.

Is it possible that they pulled all information about him?

If this is true this is a big deal remember the post that claimed he once found 8k and turned it in? Maybe he was recruited for some black ops and this is part of the plan?

So I thought to myself, they aren't going to find this guy, he doesn't exist.

r/conspiracy, the place where random thoughts become facts.

Speaking of facts, what proof is there he killed anyone?

I didn't claim that he did.

Then what are the facts?

Why are you picking a fight?

No fight - we have an issue with astroturfers here, so I try and flush them out.

IMO, the best way to do that is to be civil and logical and let them expose themselves. You just looked like a jerk, and made his attack appear less illegitimate.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/18bv8p/christopher_dorner_doesnt_exist_self_post_in/

I understand, another poster indicated as much before I posted my last post. My advice stands. Baiting can work, but it's too easy to get egg on your face and let them chalk up a win. It's like poker in the sense that you often don't profit by winning the most or biggest pots, but but by minimizing your losses in the hands between the big pots that seem to be making you the money.

this did not come off to me as "these are the facts"

more of a self thought

This post has been jacked. The OP's account is only a few days old, and yet this was pushed up by 100 votes.

New accounts can't have 100 votes? What's the angle?

account age should have nothing to do with upvotes.

Nothing weird about this. The m ore outlandish the claim, the better the chances for success here, especially if it's about current events.

Usually conspiratards generating these mushroom accounts.

edit: proof http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/18bv8p/christopher_dorner_doesnt_exist_self_post_in/

[deleted]

I think you're right. All these victims and yet we haven't seen any of them. How about the people the police shot? I haven't any of those either. They are training people to get used to abuse.

The utterly strewed up way these panicked idiots are handling this situation seems to be creating more contempt then it is "training" us for acceptance.

That is my thinking as well.

I am astounded that more people aren't getting up and taking pot shots at them.

A friend of a friend knows the Quan woman, for what it's worth. I fully believe that SH and WTC7 were hoaxes, but there were real victims in both of those events. Thus, I'm not saying the guy may not be made up an perhaps this is a conspiracy. But that doesn't mean there haven't been victims in this event too.

Someone posted some videos in another thread. However I am still convinced there's more going on here than we are being told.

I'm with you that there may be other alternatives to the story that's unfolding. But, there is video of the two women being put in an ambulance. For what it's worth.

How about the people the police shot? I haven't any of those either.

You need to open your eyes then.

Here's video of the two women

And here is an article with the other truck, featuring a photo of the driver:http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story

Netsec amatuer here. 10 seconds is simply ridiculous, command and control would take longer than that to confirm, but in theory what you're talking about is possible. But in reality, 'chris' could take a number of simple steps to hide his location

The character of chris seems incongruant. Why does somebody who believes corruption is commonplace in law enforcement support gun control? How does somebody with top secret clearance write so poorly.

I would say manufactured,rather than fake.

There was a manifesto without the gun control misinfo.

Can you elaborate? I just read both parts of the manifesto and found his support of gun control to be a bit odd.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/18599p/scanned_original_dorner_manifesto_from_early/

Wow, some very powerful interests are really pushing this gun control regime down our throats.

It's not verifiable which is authentic. To many, the short version seems more credible. However, the long version appears to be the earliest.

Oh?

If were going to make an assumption on the government's desirable IQ for TS clearance it would have an Upper limit of 100.

TIL that everyone who has a top secret clearance has impeccable handwriting.

Not hand writing, but grammar and spelling skills. Maybe I'm wrong here.

Nah, it isn't a requirement to be smart, unfortunately. I'm in the Air Force, and have secret clearance, with many friends who have top secret. Based on my day to day interactions with some, I often wonder how the hell they got into the military in the first place, much less given a top secret lol.

Mostly they look at past convictions and your debt-to-income ratio, in case someone wants to offer you money in exchange for some information.

EDIT: Deleted an extra "s"

As a navy member with a Secret and who has been interviewed for a friend's TS I can fonfirm this

[deleted]

You are fucking kidding.

Bitcoin. That's one.

Public access via library to overseas vpn bought with visa gift card. Two.

Wireless plan with pay as you go sim card. Three.

And for shits, a series of wireless repeaters, or even cat five cable lines providing access from a range outside their anticipated radius.

What I am seeing is people who think they know need more evidence. I think this is smart because in the world of the internet and Tv we need more then just wolf blizer saying something and we believe him. And yes this investigation so far seems fishy.

I also find it kinda crazy that so many things are coming together so fast. now i know humans are kinda dumb, and i think one of our fatal flaws is that we have an amazing ablitiy to conect dots that dont need to be. im not saying they dont, im just saying we can find a connection to things even if they do or do not connect. Kinda why the whole idea of conspiracys exsist for good and for bad.

What im gettign at is that we have the state of the states as they are an economy falling on its face and then WHAM we find out today the pope is out soon. now im not somebody who knows a lot about the pope. but i do know that many times i have seen this image floating around and it makes me wonder whats going on and how they knew it would be short. then again... i may be making dots connect that don't really exists.

not trying to be a jerk here but did he just derail the conversation? what do the popes have to do with dorner?

Some guy started banging on about Dorner in one of the Pope threads earlier. It all balances out I guess.

That image makes no sense. Benedict ruled "only a short time" (8 years) but John Paul I's 33 day tenure isn't worth mentioning as short? How about the 7-year tenure of John XXIII being a "short time"? Why start in 1929? Go back just a decade or two more and you've got John Paul I falling into the "one yet to come" slot. But then the prophecy doesn't work... which is why you'll see this updated once the next Pope doesn't cause the end of the world.

WTF is that image all about? Retarded.

If you agree that the image you posted has any validity you are insane..

i think i was just trying to make the point we have a amazing brain as humans to find connections, the picture was just an example. sorry if it came out the wrong way.

alright makes sense.. no wrong done there its just the sad thing is some people believe that... /:

The whole using a drone has been blown out of proportion by this community .. The drone is going to be used for surveillance not attack..

Nice try UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Manufacturing).

You people are seriously retarded.. You may be joking but the people down voting me most certainly are not

I personally feel weird being surveilled by flying machines. There's going to be a bunch of surveillance drones in the sky anyway in a decade, but it just seems a bit like totalitarian overkill.

I agree with you 100% this should not be happening.. I love how they can just pass bill that under our noses and now we have drones flying in our skies.. The sad thing is that the logic of most Americans is 'oh its going to protect me... I don't do anything wrong or illegal anyway..' what they don't realize is there is no privacy anymore but they apparently don't care about this..

But it is one thing to surveil America via drone .. that is bad enough alone.. but making claims that there will be attacks on US soil is just completely ridiculous.. there is not a soul out there that would support that that does not have stock in Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Manufacturing

I was trying to find who makes the US surveillance drones but wasn't having luck. I can only hypothesize that the main companies are heavily embedded in the industrial military complex. I have a hard time trusting any arms manufacturing company these days.

someone burying in the government is making money off this.. unfortunately its hard to find exactly who

i feel like i've read 1984, and being watched like this - any american being watched remotely by the gov't - is just a bad, bad road to start walking down.

My only question is how is he able to be in hiding for so long when everyone in the entire country knows what he looks like? I would imagine if your picture is being put on the news in every city in the country, it would be extremely hard to go anywhere without being noticed by someone and yet, not a single person has seen him? Is it even possible to pull something off like that?

I would imagine if your picture is being put on the news in every city in the country, it would be extremely hard to go anywhere without being noticed by someone and yet, not a single person has seen him? Is it even possible to pull something off like that?

I think I have solved your conundrum here.

What if he doesn't go anywhere. What if he has found a place to hide and is simply holding up there?

STOP WITH YOUR COMMON SENSE!

What if he had someone working with him behind the scenes. Some random person could hide him in their house no problem. He could just hold up for awhile and play cat and mouse with the LAPD as he pleases.

when everyone in the entire country knows what he looks like

I think you might want to take a step back on this one. Most people in the US don't get the majority of their news off the internet. Most Americans don't watch a 24 hour news networks. Most Americans don't care enough. Most of them MAY have heard of him, but that's about it.

Not to mention that a beard, a hat and some sunglasses and he's walking past 95% of the people in the US without anyone batting an eye.

You must have responded to the wrong comment because frankly I have no idea how my comment relates to yours in any way.

Well, being as he hasn't shot at the LAPD, I'm gonna guess it's pretty easy. What research have you done on the story before making this post? For instance, there's a years-old news article about him returning a bunch of lost cash from his college years. That's a big question mark to your theory, for starters.

Well, he's a cop. Depending on his years of experience, he'd know all the procedures they'd use to track him. So if he's smart and paid attention during other hunts and investigations, it is possible he could stay one step ahead of the cops.

It will be more interesting when he gets caught and what he looks like compared to the current photos.

[deleted]

La-di-da-di

Given how the police respond, and Dorner's stated objectives, I would not call the police, pretend not to notice, and leave the area.

or maybe people are helping him? he seems to have a fan club from what i've seen on tv and the internet.

Do you watch the news? People are "seeing" him all over the country.

Drones and Guns....oh and that little lovely idea of federalizing local police forces so they all work under one unit. That's the way this will end.

It doesn't matter whether Dorner is real or not, the government is fucking us in both scenarios

Doesn't take Sherlock to figure that out.

If we sacrificed JFK in the interests of the Military Industrial Complex, unsuccessfully tried to implement Operation Northwoods to get us into war with Cuba, faked the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get us into Viet Nam, sacrificed 3000+ Americans to get us into 2 fake wars over seas and launch a war on "Terror" which never has an end and Obama signs the NDAA , the gun debate only serves to make people buy guns....

would they sacrifice 3 people, pin it on an ex military, good cop, Patsy like Dorner only to get people comfortable with a heavier police presence and now drones in the air as surveillance in the name of public safety?

AND THEY ARE GUNNING DOWN INNOCENT PEOPLE WITH BLIND JUSTICE AND STILL CANT FIND THE DUDE.

what if there's no dude to find.

possible?

as possible as all the other amount of evil shit this country has done in the name of Money.

Money that isn't real.

I think you have an interesting and viable hypothesis. It is very interesting to note the proximity in time from when our leader's mouthpiece told us that drone attacks on Americans are ethical, good, and wise.

Roadblock

Good find!

You are overlooking the obvious. Dorner exists...and he's about to become the new surprise pick for pope.

I'm all for conspiracies but his Naval record is codified.

I thought that as soon as I reached Dorner's opinions on gun control in his giant 20 page rant.

Nobody actually saw the face of the masked Aurora killer. Nobody actually saw Lanza's face at Sandy Hook. Did anyone actually see.Dorner murder someone? And notice how the Dorner thing popped up in time to drown out any more Sandy Hook news. And who rewrote/edited the Dorner manifesto? Did he even write the original at all? I suspect that when they do get 'Dorner', the victim will be caught with an assault weapon, then blown into unrecognizability. And then Feinstein will tout it as more reason to remove all weapons from the public. It all seems like an evil game. I'm betting we will see more high publicity murders until they get their way and grab all the guns.

may I say that you have pushed your theorizing too far. you are getting into scifi territory.

I actually feel the same way about this situation, I'm an IT in the navy, so i figured of course he would have a digital footprint some where on the NMCI network, or on the old IT21 system, especially since he was a supposed LT. There's nothing absolutely anywhere on him, and everything I can find dates back to 90 that i can look for. Very very weird. I've never seen anything like it before.

There are to many reports of police performing real actions to doubt that there is a suspect they are trying to hunt down. Plus, what would would be the motive of putting the LAPD in a negative light?

What if the police do not know he doesn't exist? What if they are being fed the same bull shit we are being fed?

LAPD credibility is going to shit. If it were planned and the objective is to garner support for more "security", you don't destroy or discredit the thing you are trying to promote.

You're assuming lapd is behind this. Showing the incopetence of local agencies may not bother a federal person.

Bull. If your objective is control, you don't destroy or discredit an agency that can be used to enhance your control over a major region of the U.S. Also, you don't teach your population to distrust figures of authority.

Notice chris is not a particularily likeable guy, nor does he present his case well. A federal agency would remain unconcerned with public opinion of the lapd.

It's not just about the LAPD. In order to maintain control you have to "program" people to accept authority. If they are burned by the LAPD, that "programming" is damaged or destroyed.

Nobody thinks that big.

Unless you want the hands that control agency to change

He worked for the police department. So obviously some of them know him personally. He had a case before the review board when he got terminated. His family members and people affiliated with the police department who knew him during his time as an LAPD officer have all talked about him.

This is the problem with 99.9999% of outlandish conspiracy theories. When you have to "explain away" so many logical explanations and facts to justify an outlandish view, then it is extremely likely that the "conspiracy theory just isn't true.

Chris is a wetwork specialist inserted into the police dept shortly after his 'return' from the reserves, with the goal of creating a situation like this and then escaping, in order to move public opinion towards favoring stricter national security controls. That wouldn't be too difficult to explain, and requires only a few people to be in on it.

Is there any prominent mass murder and/or famous murder case where you don't believe the government was behind it?

Nah first one actually.

very few. the reason for this is because the ones the government aren't behind also get shown little to no light by the media.

also, even the ones the government are not behind, the news still reports false information on. this much i am 100% sure of as i've dealt with news people very many times living in the ghetto. i'm not black, but as someone said before in another post, it's always about putting the blame on the no good dirty nigger. it's not hard to see that.

they would be. because i know most of us have met a good police officer. and there are of course officers who would stand against this.

So who killed those people then? Who blew up his car? Who is the man in the picture?

It would be unwise to underestimate the full power of the US Government, Police force of America, and The Media. Not to mention the lack of morals some humans have, making some individuals perfect tools in any plot.

Ok I get that. But everytime a prominent killing happens the government is involved? I don't understand how one starts off with the assumption that the government planned this without any credible evidence.

You have to look much more deeper then just shootings, ect. In sociology I payed attention to one concept/theory especially well and that was the Social-Conlict theory. The way society is studied and looked at in reference to this theory of how it operates, is that a select few (the elite/old money/ ancient family/ secret societies/ etc) do all in their power to maintain that power and uphold the status quo. When you start to realize who truly benefits from every single event, you start to understand that nature of certain choices, how the media (owned by a few) portray certain events and play mind tricks on you to engage you and have you support their cause. For example: Why legalize weed when so many people would lose so much money from it? The private industries cannot monopolize it because it's very easy for ANYONE to grow. Why allow a cure for cancer if it would screw over the medical industries? Why have a war on terror (an endless war with no clear enemy or end)? Simply to justify the undeniable increase in arms and loss of privacy until the point where their power is unchallengeable. Ideology is much more powerful when the public opinion sways against and sees the true nature of their authority. This is not a conspiracy in the terms that it is made up, fictional, or a delusional thought. This is logical assertions toward a human condition in which natural resources are mined from the ground and sold back to us as if we have no stake in the ownership of it.

nice

hey, that last sentance reminds me of my country. Canada sells the US oil, you guys do whatever it is you do to it to make it usable, and sell it back to us :D now how does that make any sense? haha

I would say that the government is probably using this situation to their advantage more than anything else. They see an opportunity here. Get the drones out, get people to like them more on US soil. Probably stick with just the non-lethal ones for the time being... but just for the time being. Make baby steps forward in exacting more control.

the man in the picture is the dad from that's so raven. I just saw it on r/funny.

I've been thinking that he didn't exist for a couple of days. I think they riled up the cops and the people about a completely fictional person. I have no proof or theory as to why but I'm sure this is a political agenda of some kind in the making. When the former chief who supposedly gave him his coin that he sent, shot full of holes, to Anderson Cooper, and the guy said he had no memory of him whatsoever that's when I first started thinking he was total fiction.

Weather he's real or not, this event does do a few other things. It shows the powers that be how many people would support this kind of action against the police and who, if copycats start to spring up, the then have an excuse to crack down with an even bigger police state. It also furthers the anti gun agenda they have.

His military records were put out pretty quick, which have been proven by past friends and other military persons.. Same as personal things. Looks like he tried to build up a career in the Navy and the LAPD... Didnt work in either so he stewed about it for several years until this.

In the Navy, he made Lieutenant in 4 years, which is the minimum time-in-rank required (must have 2 years as O-1 to be eligible for O-2, 2 years as O-2 to be eligible for O-3) meaning he was promoted 2 times each on his first time eligible. I'd say he did pretty well in the Navy, especially considering he was a reservist.

Yeah but he was decommisioned? on '09 I think.. Navy didnt want him either for some reason.

If the guy doesn't even exist and this is a false-flag operation designed to distract and/or manipulate public perception on guns, it's only succeeded in accomplishing the exact opposite. This whole thing is generating massive public unrest while exposing the true nature of the LAPD and various other police departments.

If you ask me, nothing about this chris dorner story makes the tiniest bit of sense.

It's real, except perhaps the second half of the manifesto. The OP's theory is junk.

if faked.. then its backfiring.. because many people..

MYSELF included.. are rooting for this guy..

fuck the corrupt police. Im glad to be seeing the rise of the vigilante

Im glad to be seeing the rise of the vigilante

While I understand the sentiment about the corrupt nature of our 'authority figures', vigilantism is dangerous, when the mobs rule you end up with mob rule. Ask the french how well their Vigilante justice worked out for everyone.

"the tree of liberty must be refreshed time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

Thomas Jefferson

i was kind of thinking that perhaps dorner himself is real ... but perhaps all of these years of training, and pushing - it would take a unique mindset to do what he is doing. and a very incredibly strong ethical & moral compass... that is coincidentally a bit, just a tiny, skewed. what if the gov't took chris dorner, average nice guy soldier, and turned him into chris dorner, killing machine... and what if just a few days ago, or weeks ago, someone felt the need to pop that little killing machine on? obviously he snapped; i guess i'm just saying that i think there's a possibility that he was essentially brainwashed because of his strict ethics etc, but he seems to have a somewhat weak sense of "self" - thereby making him an excellent brainwashee, coerced type.

totally makes sense lol... i just have to have things explained to me sometimes. there's a reason my name isn't panziegenius!

Firefly?

haven't ever seen it. just not a big tv watcher... but while i was writing that comment i was desperately trying to think of some literary figure who still escapes me that was tweaked like that.

You should watch it. It's pretty darn close to what you just described. It's all on netflix. Only 1 season + 1 movie (Serenity).

i have no netflix (not into the tvs, again) BUT i happen to know that my mom loves firefly and has anything watchable, including random things she's videotaped (no kidding, vhs.)

Taking it way back... nice!

I like your theory but the problem I see is that you think the government created a hero for the people. Why I say that is because everyone I talk to so far seems to agree with what he is doing. he doesn't want to target citizens, only the government, because the government is corrupt with people who will not police themselves, so he's going to do it for them.

I have an additional conspiracy theory to the "innocent citizens" he has killed in addition to the cops he got from his list.

I think that the LAPD wanted to demonize him and because they are the LAPD they can point at anyone as the killer. Why not finger our modern day Anti-hero to diminish his cause to the people he is saying that he is standing up for?

Therein lies a conundrum because the LAPD are taking actions against the people, making public statement against Dorner, in the fashion to which his outlines in his manifesto.

Just a theory here. But maybe that want to make a hero for the people. Maybe let it get so big that people actually start to riot then they can start enforcing the things the powers have wanted to enforce police states, drones in America, marshal law, and so on. Think about it if there is civil conflict then it would be easier to get things started in order to "protect law enforcement and government officials". Again just a thought. But make L.A look like a battle zone and most of the rest of American's would be afraid the same thing could happen in their area and go along easier with the government's orders

That is a great perspective.

If Chris Dorner doesn't exist then how do you explain the court case?

I can accept the theory that Dorner is being set up or whatever but I think it's a stretch to say he doesn't exist.

"If you want to hurt people go to Iraq! Why are you 'hurting' U.S. citizens?! BODY COUNT THREE.

I mean, let's no check public records or anything...

I think it is possible. I didn't want to believe this could all be a put on at first because I wanted to believe that some guy was killing cops and paying them back. But it's really strange how the story has suddenly gone silent. I think that could be accounted for by the unexpected happiness and joy that this "dorner rampage" caused.

It's like the powers that be stepped on a landmine by accident. I bet it must really shock them just how many people are prepared to embrace a cop killer in this day and age.

I mean when you have pro-dorner postings on /r/politics something strange is going on.

this is my take

So when this all started, and I saw the testimonies from his former boss at the police department (the man who fired him) and a guy he said he looked up to in the navy, they both said that they could not remember him, adding it was odd he wouldn't have noticed someone so large. Not only that, his facebook page (where all of the pictures of him have came from) was created in January. So I thought to myself, they aren't going to find this guy, he doesn't exist.

That is pretty poor reasoning. He may not have considered a need for facebook before January. Also I'm pretty sure that the Chief at the time saw a lot of officers in day to day and in meetings, a lot of them probably fit Dorners basic description and would blur into each other as would their relevant cases.

Amidst all the capitol hill hearings on the use of drones on American citizens on American soil, appointing new members to Obama's cabinet, and the fiscal cliff we have put off, it seems to me like this is not only the perfect distraction, but also gets LA ready for the soon to be police state full with police officers shooting citizens, hunting down people with drones, and all out panic/fear.

AFAIK drones came out of a Mail/Express story. The two papers aren't known for being exactly accurate especially in the case of the former that used to run made up millitary stories that no other paper would touch. On about the SAS being hot on the heals of Osama Bin Laden was one. Appeared in no other national newspaper, but front page headline for the Mail (also known as the Fail, Fascist, Nazi).

Secondly drone is a wide ranging term, and tbh I can make one using a web cam and Arduino system to send pictures from a remote control plane (you can get auto pilot type shields for them now). They're probably using camera drones if at all, it's safer than using helicopters and risking policemen and they won't be using armed drones as they don't have the best track record for collateral damage, something that wouldn't be welcome at all in LA.

So after already telling myself he doesn't exist I then watch the press conference of the police officer from like Big Bear California or something like that, the place where all the cabins were, they say they found his truck, but that the footprints coming out of the truck didn't lead to the suspect, this makes no sense.

Why? If it was snowing there then his tracks would get covered, he could have found alternate routes and gone through scrub to lose his tracks, if he finds an area with little snow and goes there then he won't really leave tracks, if he walks down a road before people are looking for him his tracks may blend into others or get trodden by others or just not appeared on compacted snow.

It also makes no sense how someone could kill cops in Los Angeles, and just drive out of the city without cops following him, yeah right.

In that case you are an idiot. This isn't GTA where cops randomly appear and chase you and there aren't security cameras absoloutely everywhere. Secondly Dorner looks like a million people or more in the world and probably a lot like everyone else in the areas he's moving in. First someone has to notice his vehicle and reg, then they have to do checks to locate the area of the vehicle and make sure it's the right one and if he changed his plates that will confuse the ANPR as that means it won't be looking for the plates he switched for. It's also confusing as the basic description is a big black guy driving a pretty stereotypical looking Utility Truck. There must be a shed load of people fitting that description in California. Now imagine on the street, he's a big black guy wearing plain clothes that look like a lot of other plain clothes in these colours unless he got changed recently. Now add in the probability he's moving around at night for the most part. Hmmmm...

Mark my words, he will never be found, he's our little home grown Bin Laden 2.0. This is just my take on the situation as I've seen it developing.. Let me know what you think Ok so, I went on about a bunch of different things above, which ended up confusing some people from my initial thoughts about this, so I'll just simplify the general idea to a few sentences: I think this whole "Dorner Saga" is being carried out by the powers above. I think the motive of this is #1) to gain public support for drones to be used on US citizens on US soil, in light of the Capitol Hill hearings on the subject a few days before this saga. That is what I believe to be the main purpose. Other secondhand effects I think, that I think they planned on as well, is to decensitize (sp) the public to the idea that a police officers life is far more valuable than the average person, and if officers (or other government officials) get attacked, they will stop at nothing to ensure it doesn't happen again even if it means innocent people will get hurt. Now I'm not saying the second part is concrete, just a thought I had. But I feel strongly this saga was designed to gain public support for drones on US citizens on US soil. Just as 9/11 gave us the foot in the door to rape the middle east for a decade, just as Sandy Hook gave us the foot in the door to start disarming the public. You can say you don't AGREE, but to say there isn't motive and results is not a valid argument, at least based off of the arguments I've seen or heard so far. For people confused about the drone issue, this was taken off of this thread http://www.activistpost.com/2013/02/drones-may-be-our-only-hope-of-finding.html I made a new post, so if you want to keep the convo going this post is much more concrete and less thoughts, more just layed out simply http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/18c1jx/christopher_dorner_conspiracy/

Here's my take. You're the big super mother bug. Set yourself on fire.

You need medication

If he was dead for a long time before this, would anyone know? I mean, gnshot wound to the head, then being burned... hard to imagine a more conspiracy friendly CoD.

I'm not shooting down your theory but the tracks from the burnt out vehicle could have been covered since he's probably got survival training. Also, I don't even believe he was at the vehicle when it blew up. That was a decoy and maybe he even set a charge on it or something seeing as though he has reportedly got demolition and ordnance training.

Did someone fake up that lengthy court appeal? that's a lot of work and a lot of foresight. It's easier for me to believe he doesn't exist because he was killed for attempting to blow the whistle.

[deleted]

What's magic about it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irL1M15DH8

[deleted]

Yeah well, the 'coincidental number' that shows up all the time is a lot of bull plop. I number of motivated friends and I did about a 6 month long search into numerology and found that there's almost no connection between any type of event and any number. It only shows up because you are looking for it in the same way the guy who convinced us to look into it was positive 42 was 'the' number. You can understand his mistake having read A hitchhikers guide to the galaxy too many times. And he always replied "But look at all the things that happened that day!" to which I would reply "Go look at any other day".

Another 9 years and his actions would have given us the meaning of life.

[deleted]

scottish rite 33 york rite 9

33 + 9 = 42

Douglas Adams was probably a mason...

"What do you get if you multiply six by nine?"

"Six by nine. Forty two."

"That's it. That's all there is."
"I always thought something was fundamentally wrong with the universe

Lemme get this straight OP. You're saying they had the police work with the media to masquerade a plot in order to make drones on US soil legal?

Yeah you're probably right. I barely even need to think about it now, but you're absolutely right. This has been the strategy since 9/11.

Tell the lie. Repeat is often. Eventually the public caves in. Government is then given authority to do as it pleases.

Lemme get this straight OP. You're saying they had the police work with the media to masquerade a plot in order to make drones on US soil legal?

Yes, kind of like what they did in 9/11 or Gulf of Tonkin etc... You find it unusual that the media and government lies to get public support?

No. I'm just freshly awakened to the concept. The more I think about it the more it seems obvious that the strategy is genius. Anyone who questions the official story gets laughed at, and the publics opinion gets formed by the media instead of the public. I guess we're at a point in history where the individual no longer exists unless he has money... but then again it's sorta always been like that.

christopher dorner = C H R I S T - D R O N E It is some sort of hypnotic suggestion to christians trying to get them to accept drones or something. That name is way too coincidental and you would have to be pretty dense not to realize this. However, most of us are. Sigh...

I don't know if he has never existed, but he is likely dead now, as I pointed out in my most recent podcast/video: The California Report Episode 3: Is Christopher Dorner Dead Already

I think the other day there was a picture of him entering a general store in the mountains via security cameras. If I wasn't mobile at the moment I'd provide a link.

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Their lives are so boring, that they have to pretend everything is secrectly much more exciting than it actually is.

So like those images of himself on camera? Creating a cache... He may have created his Facebook as a PR reason.

The best lies make the liar look bad...

Goldstein!!!

After reading the actual manifesto that was deleted from r/politics I believe that he does in fact exist.

"Yes Jim, word is just in.15 years after the fugitive policman Christopher Dorner went on a rampage word has it he's been found. It was assumed that he perished in the hills of the Big Bear mountain range, but apparently he was living as a lift operator going by the name "huggy bear". After being cornered by Seal team 6 and being taken out in a fire fight, insurgent Dorner was given an immediate burial at sea at an undisclosed location on-top of bear ridge."

Dorner attacks and copycats are wanted as justification.

If it was a hoax, his manifesto would not have been nearly as well-written.

Twist: Christopher Dorner is actually Manti Te'us Girlfriend.

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Except people are more annoyed and agitated at the police shootings and random searches than they are with Dorner. There's no conspiracy here, except perhaps the second half of his "manifesto".

[deleted]

Maybe since he was in the military, he knows that war is more about perception then reality, he knows he needs to get his side out before it gets put out there for him? Or it could be faked

So they produce a fake manifesto exposing major corruption in the LAPD? Yeah, surely that's in the interest of your "powers that be" (lol) and a completely logical step. There would have been no other way to do it.

You're looking at the pieces, check out the picture. If you want to federalize local police, where would you start? By showing it works in a small town or by showing that a large city's police force is incompetent? I hope this guy is real and does have information to expose corruption and what have you, but I wouldn't be overly surprised if it was a false flag

My problem with this "conspiracy theory" is that Dorner is not a hateable guy - in fact a lot of the public seems to view him as a folk hero.

I do recall a news agency showing a clip from an officer at Big Bear saying the footprints leaving the truck were not his.

actually he's an illuminati mind control slave, those former superiors are just his handlers

Sometimes I wonder if conspiracy theorists just don't have an outlet for their over-active imaginations.

This is DUMB!

No doubt!

WTF> Its totally cool with me to share out of the box ideas but this is silly talk.

I like the way you think..

His theory is junk.

Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions.

I recognize this. However, I want evolved thought, not junk reasoning. So, I claim the right call out poor reasoning skills.

It's frustrating that you're getting downvoted. This subreddit claims critical thinking as their tool, yet they upvote any irrational thing that criticizes the U.S. government.

Haahahahahah... this is a manufactured conspiracy so drones can be used in the US???!?!?

Hey conspiratard, DRONES ARE ALREADY BEING USED IN THE US.

Dumb ass? Moi?

Me thinks you were looking in the mirror when you typed that. Or maybe it was your zombiefied alien doppelganger?!?!?!? That DUDE is always worming his way into your reddit posts!!!11!1

I bet all of those hearings in Washington are cover for something else they are trying to sneak in the back door. Did you know that the Benghazi hearings were meant to help Obama push Shariah law into US? True story.

That's conspiretard sir you retard.

I say potato, you say I am working with the NSA to subvert the Constitution and put everyone in chains.

I was really rooting for this guy....until I heard about the drones. Now I know this shit is fucking fake.

Speaking of facts, what proof is there he killed anyone?

This post has been jacked. The OP's account is only a few days old, and yet this was pushed up by 100 votes.

this did not come off to me as "these are the facts"

more of a self thought

I have an additional conspiracy theory to the "innocent citizens" he has killed in addition to the cops he got from his list.

I think that the LAPD wanted to demonize him and because they are the LAPD they can point at anyone as the killer. Why not finger our modern day Anti-hero to diminish his cause to the people he is saying that he is standing up for?

Therein lies a conundrum because the LAPD are taking actions against the people, making public statement against Dorner, in the fashion to which his outlines in his manifesto.

i have no netflix (not into the tvs, again) BUT i happen to know that my mom loves firefly and has anything watchable, including random things she's videotaped (no kidding, vhs.)

Lemme get this straight OP. You're saying they had the police work with the media to masquerade a plot in order to make drones on US soil legal?

Yes, kind of like what they did in 9/11 or Gulf of Tonkin etc... You find it unusual that the media and government lies to get public support?

So ive gathered. is anything specific known about the cops he shot?