I have yet to see evidence for your claim, that any of the local posters is a paid shill. I have seen some posters who only post ludicrous stories from the most unreliable sources and could perhaps be labeled misinformation operatives, but perhaps these posters are simply trolls.
Most false claims, assumptions, and ridiculous unfounded stories are in my opinion the result of misinformed, careless posters who just spread disinformation they have picked up elsewhere.
Instead of the constant shill accusations it would be more productive to analyze the fraudulent information and show the disinformative nature of such posts and submissions.
That something like sock puppet software, online-marketing liars, megaphonies and other shills exist is one thing. But the amount of people who have been called shill in this subreddit is ridiculous. Also usually the only reason for such an accusation is based on a disagreement between the accuser and supposed shill.
If someone posts disinformation, call him out on it and provide for your counterargument sources which show why his claim is false.
If someone continues to spread disinformation or disrupts this forum with dishonest posts, alert the mods or the community.
did you see yrugay's link above? you want specific evidence of a paid shill 'locally' - how do you propose that the evidence is collected and presented to you so you will accept it?
how do you propose that the evidence is collected and presented to you so you will accept it?
Analyze the posting history of a submitter/commenter and show when and how he disrupts this forum and tries to kill genuine information or polludes this subreddit with a either a constant flow of disinformation or the production of disinformation (forum sliding) at a critical moment. Although this might not be enough to show that the poster is paid, it is enough to show, that he has a dishonest agenda.
While I don't doubt that disinformation is created and spread through the web by paid shills, I believe someone who is paid for disinformation will usually put it out at places where it reaches a wider audience. This could be posts in popular forums, original newspaper articles, books and testimonies of witnesses who make false claims etc. /r/conspiracy hasn't that many readers and most subscribers are probably not very active in spreading the information they have encountered in this subreddit.
When the FBI targeted various groups with its COINTELPRO, it tried to create discord. The fear of infiltration was exploited and genuine activists were smeared as agents. I believe people who throw around unfounded accusations play right after the playbook of those who want to manipulate the free flow of information.
I have yet to see evidence for your claim, that any of the local posters is a paid shill.
Once again, if you'd been paying attention (as I believe you actually are), you will have noticed the preponderance of evidence; empirical, circumstantial or otherwise. However, would you expect any of the said "operatives" to expose the true nature of their employment?
"Hai, guis! I'ma work for teh NSA lol!!111!"
Obviously, the first move of any intelligence agent is to expose themselves. /sarcasm
Most false claims, assumptions, and ridiculous unfounded stories are in my opinion the result of misinformed, careless posters who just spread disinformation they have picked up elsewhere.
Yes, there is a lot of frivolous non-sense on this sub. However, with the understanding that the "conspiracy" community is thoroughly replete with misinformation, intentional or otherwise, it is better to be informed of any possible operations, legitimate stories, tin-foil hat claims and other madness and disseminate for yourself what is worth taking to heart and what is not...as you say:
it would be more productive to analyze the fraudulent information and show the disinformative nature of such posts and submissions.
The reason there are so many accusations of "shill" is because of the people who make the conscious decision to come to this sub knowing full well it's purview and, using subtle manipulation of conversations and insinuations of "inappropriateness" or of being "misinformed", attempt to dissuade people from attempting to understand the scope of any one particular theory or piece of insight.
Why is it so hard to believe that "our" government and it's bloated, bureaucratic intelligence community wouldn't spend a couple million drops in the budget-bucket to spread propaganda, misinformation & psychological warfare amongst the populace? After all, they're already subject it's own citizenry to:
domestic wiretap spying (made legal after the fact) & drones
Indefinite detention without due process
Assassination without due process
Warrant-less search & seizure
Bail out major banks that intentionally caused the recession and never charge any executive with a criminal offense
Refuse to charge bankers who laundered drug cartel money
People have plenty to be suspicious of and are perfectly justified in behaving as such.
Yes, ignorance. Also the "US government agencies only have your best interest in mind, are the world experts on safety issues, and aren't possibly swayed by money" folks.
They use language to imply that the poster is crazy/stupid/deluded etc., but never mention it directly - "You' have to be crazy to think that a naturally occurring mineral added into water or sometimes even naturally occurring in water would be any harm to the brain" - notice it's saying 'you would' instead of 'OP is a crazy nutbag'? Also, notice the leap of logic here - lead and uranium are naturally occurring, and no doubt they would naturally appear in some water supplies somewhere in the world.
They usually rely on words, rather than evidence and substance.
They will suddenly have a strong opinion on a certain issue and will stick at the issue with great conviction.
They avoid answering direct questions and requests for evidence.
They avoid saying they don't know, don't understand, don't have evidence or that they merely suspect things - they will instead state things as absolute and self-evident facts.
They try to persuade rather than debate.
Any issues which are too difficult to answer - "Why would anyone trust the same profession that inflicted the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment for 40 years until 1972 to be honest and ethical in releasing information about the risks of (or claimed lack thereof) with vaccinations" - get completely ignored because it's too hard to respond to, and the more it gets acknowledged the worse things get. Better to ignore it and hope it goes away.
Maybe look into reading up on how PR/Propaganda is used, too.
All these comments and not a single bit of evidence of any poster on this sub being a paid shill. Your paranoia is laughable. The problem this sub has is many of you think disagreement = paid shill. Asking for evidence doesn't make a shill out of anyone. Believing and arguing in favor of what this sub calls the 9/11 "official story" doesn't make anyone a paid shill either. Both those things are certainly met with downvotes here, however. A forum for "free thought"? Laughable.
EDIT: Hmm... I wonder if this is the comment that got me banned.
All these comments and not a single bit of evidence of any poster on this sub being a paid shill. Your paranoia is laughable. The problem this sub has is many of you think disagreement = paid shill. Asking for evidence doesn't make a shill out of anyone. Believing and arguing in favor of what this sub calls the 9/11 "official story" doesn't make anyone a paid shill either. Both those things are certainly met with downvotes here, however. A forum for "free thought"? Laughable.
Lol I'm totally shocked that some retarded alexjones 420 child perceives 'threats' where none exist, life must be really hard for dudes who are mentally ill paranoid hahaha
41 comments
8 drunkenshrew 2013-02-17
I have yet to see evidence for your claim, that any of the local posters is a paid shill. I have seen some posters who only post ludicrous stories from the most unreliable sources and could perhaps be labeled misinformation operatives, but perhaps these posters are simply trolls.
Most false claims, assumptions, and ridiculous unfounded stories are in my opinion the result of misinformed, careless posters who just spread disinformation they have picked up elsewhere.
Instead of the constant shill accusations it would be more productive to analyze the fraudulent information and show the disinformative nature of such posts and submissions.
5 danxmason 2013-02-17
How about from a newspaper?
3 drunkenshrew 2013-02-17
That something like sock puppet software, online-marketing liars, megaphonies and other shills exist is one thing. But the amount of people who have been called shill in this subreddit is ridiculous. Also usually the only reason for such an accusation is based on a disagreement between the accuser and supposed shill.
If someone posts disinformation, call him out on it and provide for your counterargument sources which show why his claim is false.
If someone continues to spread disinformation or disrupts this forum with dishonest posts, alert the mods or the community.
1 acronyman 2013-02-17
did you see yrugay's link above? you want specific evidence of a paid shill 'locally' - how do you propose that the evidence is collected and presented to you so you will accept it?
1 drunkenshrew 2013-02-17
Analyze the posting history of a submitter/commenter and show when and how he disrupts this forum and tries to kill genuine information or polludes this subreddit with a either a constant flow of disinformation or the production of disinformation (forum sliding) at a critical moment. Although this might not be enough to show that the poster is paid, it is enough to show, that he has a dishonest agenda.
While I don't doubt that disinformation is created and spread through the web by paid shills, I believe someone who is paid for disinformation will usually put it out at places where it reaches a wider audience. This could be posts in popular forums, original newspaper articles, books and testimonies of witnesses who make false claims etc. /r/conspiracy hasn't that many readers and most subscribers are probably not very active in spreading the information they have encountered in this subreddit.
When the FBI targeted various groups with its COINTELPRO, it tried to create discord. The fear of infiltration was exploited and genuine activists were smeared as agents. I believe people who throw around unfounded accusations play right after the playbook of those who want to manipulate the free flow of information.
-1 [deleted] 2013-02-17
Once again, if you'd been paying attention (as I believe you actually are), you will have noticed the preponderance of evidence; empirical, circumstantial or otherwise. However, would you expect any of the said "operatives" to expose the true nature of their employment?
Obviously, the first move of any intelligence agent is to expose themselves. /sarcasm
Yes, there is a lot of frivolous non-sense on this sub. However, with the understanding that the "conspiracy" community is thoroughly replete with misinformation, intentional or otherwise, it is better to be informed of any possible operations, legitimate stories, tin-foil hat claims and other madness and disseminate for yourself what is worth taking to heart and what is not...as you say:
The reason there are so many accusations of "shill" is because of the people who make the conscious decision to come to this sub knowing full well it's purview and, using subtle manipulation of conversations and insinuations of "inappropriateness" or of being "misinformed", attempt to dissuade people from attempting to understand the scope of any one particular theory or piece of insight.
Why is it so hard to believe that "our" government and it's bloated, bureaucratic intelligence community wouldn't spend a couple million drops in the budget-bucket to spread propaganda, misinformation & psychological warfare amongst the populace? After all, they're already subject it's own citizenry to:
People have plenty to be suspicious of and are perfectly justified in behaving as such.
7 [deleted] 2013-02-17
Shill for hire!
1 spaghettigod 2013-02-17
what's your going rate?
2 Leonard_Laney 2013-02-17
Ten illuminatis per hour.
6 toomuchpork 2013-02-17
there are also people who support official stories just not to turn their world view on its ear!
1 TPbandit 2013-02-17
Yes, ignorance. Also the "US government agencies only have your best interest in mind, are the world experts on safety issues, and aren't possibly swayed by money" folks.
4 iam_sancho2 2013-02-17
Mention a post on chemtrails and watch the slime emerge from the darkness.
0 toomuchpork 2013-02-17
well that aint just here. my only flagged craigslist post was on weather modification
4 WormCastings 2013-02-17
Anyone who disagrees with me = Shill
3 spaghettigod 2013-02-17
Please point them out so we may have a point of reference.
1 SincerelySincere 2013-02-17
For a lot of users here it's almost every other user they encounter.
-1 Buffalo__Buffalo 2013-02-17
They use language to imply that the poster is crazy/stupid/deluded etc., but never mention it directly - "You' have to be crazy to think that a naturally occurring mineral added into water or sometimes even naturally occurring in water would be any harm to the brain" - notice it's saying 'you would' instead of 'OP is a crazy nutbag'? Also, notice the leap of logic here - lead and uranium are naturally occurring, and no doubt they would naturally appear in some water supplies somewhere in the world.
They usually rely on words, rather than evidence and substance.
They will suddenly have a strong opinion on a certain issue and will stick at the issue with great conviction.
They avoid answering direct questions and requests for evidence.
They avoid saying they don't know, don't understand, don't have evidence or that they merely suspect things - they will instead state things as absolute and self-evident facts.
They try to persuade rather than debate.
Any issues which are too difficult to answer - "Why would anyone trust the same profession that inflicted the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment for 40 years until 1972 to be honest and ethical in releasing information about the risks of (or claimed lack thereof) with vaccinations" - get completely ignored because it's too hard to respond to, and the more it gets acknowledged the worse things get. Better to ignore it and hope it goes away.
Maybe look into reading up on how PR/Propaganda is used, too.
-1 spaghettigod 2013-02-17
This is Nebz604 in a nutshell.
3 SilentNick3 2013-02-17
All these comments and not a single bit of evidence of any poster on this sub being a paid shill. Your paranoia is laughable. The problem this sub has is many of you think disagreement = paid shill. Asking for evidence doesn't make a shill out of anyone. Believing and arguing in favor of what this sub calls the 9/11 "official story" doesn't make anyone a paid shill either. Both those things are certainly met with downvotes here, however. A forum for "free thought"? Laughable.
EDIT: Hmm... I wonder if this is the comment that got me banned.
-1 [deleted] 2013-02-17
I would find it hard to believe that would get you banned...
2 arthurpaliden 2013-02-17
Just look for the guys bitching that their NWO pay checks have not yet arrived but are supposedly 'in the mail'...
2 Hhmm_Interesting 2013-02-17
I think it applies not just to this subreddit... but most of the political discussion sources online... read the comments on most news sites...
I feel as if there are definitely lobbyists whose sole purpose is to express their views all over the interwebs.
2 SargonOfAkkad 2013-02-17
Why would the US military post pro-vaccine propaganda?
2 NuggaNooch 2013-02-17
All these comments and not a single bit of evidence of any poster on this sub being a paid shill. Your paranoia is laughable. The problem this sub has is many of you think disagreement = paid shill. Asking for evidence doesn't make a shill out of anyone. Believing and arguing in favor of what this sub calls the 9/11 "official story" doesn't make anyone a paid shill either. Both those things are certainly met with downvotes here, however. A forum for "free thought"? Laughable.
0 gwf_hegel 2013-02-17
Source please.
-1 NotAtLunch 2013-02-17
wut?
-1 danxmason 2013-02-17
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
-3 argoATX 2013-02-17
An r/conspiracy user asking for a source? HahahahahahaahhAahahahaAA
6 danxmason 2013-02-17
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
-3 acronyman 2013-02-17
What's the policy on abusive and threatening language?
4 Meister_Vargr 2013-02-17
No abusive/threatening language.
-4 [deleted] 2013-02-17
[deleted]
-3 acronyman 2013-02-17
Don't threaten me. Your cap fits, so wear it proud.
0 argoATX 2013-02-17
Lol I'm totally shocked that some retarded alexjones 420 child perceives 'threats' where none exist, life must be really hard for dudes who are mentally ill paranoid hahaha
-1 acronyman 2013-02-17
ironic post of the day. thanks for the laugh.
0 argoATX 2013-02-17
Bro did u kno chemtrails r controllin ur mind??? L o l
0 [deleted] 2013-02-17
Shills are easily identified during vaccination posts.
-1 yrugay 2013-02-17
http://www.redditinvestigator.com/
http://www.unedditreddit.com/
beware
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/drgp9/how_is_it_that_a_random_comment_on_reddit_leads/
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/qu0mp/confirmed_laurelai_is_an_fbi_informant/
http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/qnc24/laurelai_gets_caught_abusing_her_mod_powers_in/
http://www.reddit.com/r/NolibsWatch/comments/v74sk/ulaurelai_forgets_to_switch_accounts_and_reveals/
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/03/fbi-uses-phony-profiles-on-social-networks-to-gather-information-on-suspects/1#.T17Ypnlofn4
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57471570-93/facebook-scans-chats-and-posts-for-criminal-activity/?tag=postrtcol;mostPop
http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/tm4su/til_that_the_us_created_and_still_runs_the_office/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4655196.stm
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/exclusive-militarys-persona-software-cost-millions-used-for-classified-social-media-activities/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/counterterrorism-trolls/all/
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/fog-computing/all/
http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/g5tf8/revealed_us_spy_operation_that_manipulates_social/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367535/U-S-military-using-fake-online-profiles-spread-propaganda.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/us-military-runs-somali-propaganda_n_2122114.html
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/12/the_man_the_state_dept_wants_silenced/singleton/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-04-19/vanden-brook-locker-propaganda/54419654/1
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-05-24/Leonie-usa-today-propaganda-pentagon/55190450/1
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/07/20127205441433206.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/22/nation/la-na-cyber-school-20121123
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-08-02/politics/35271956_1_defcon-hackers-nsa
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/06/us-hackers-fbi-informer?CMP=twt_gu
http://www.reddit.com/r/evolutionReddit/comments/zrqn0/16yearold_gets_a_visit_from_the_fbi_for_making_
more
http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/y1k2c/story_about_google_censoring_its_search_algorithm/
http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14ugsc/updateredditors_uncover_how_mods_of_rtechnology/
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/judge-google-didnt-follow-show-your-shills-order/
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/30/google_teams_up_with_cia_
http://www.pcworld.com/article/217550/google_comes_under_fire_for_secret_relationship_with_nsa.html
https://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/21/exposed_inside_the_nsas_largest_and
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/05/11/court-rules-nsa-doesnt-have-to-reveal-its-semi-secret-relationship-with-google/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-17/google-judge-accepts-22-5-million-ftc-privacy-settlement.html
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/01/117_79291.html
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2012/01/google-streamlines-privacy/
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/04/opinion-singel-google-walls/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/dugan-darpa-google/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/07/darpa-wants-social-media-sensor-for-propaganda-ops/
http://phys.org/news/2011-10-darpa-master-propaganda-narrative-networks.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Information_Awareness
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/fog-computing/all/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-02/your-119-billion-google-searches-now-a-central-bank-tool.html
http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/10/3233625/google-search-ranking-copyright-dmca
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-lays-framework-for-purge-of-online-opponents
more
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57318372/cia-tracks-global-pulse-on-twitter-facebook/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/14/facebook
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026755/Manchester-Facebook-riot-inciters-Perry-Sutcliffe-Jordan-Blackshaw-jailed-4-years.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/tql34/britain_50_policemen_raided_seven_addresses_and/
more
www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/qfx3k/twitter_turns_over_occupy_users_data_to_police/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/article1870913.ece
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-Bunting-Leigh-Van-Bryan-UK-tourists-arrested-destroy-America-Twitter-jokes.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/world/09wiki.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/c67eq/twitter_subpoenaed_to_expose_anonymous_critics_of/
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/14/4988890/homeland-security-office-oks-efforts.html
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-11/13/scan-social-networks-for-bioterrorism
http://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryConspiracy/comments/16kn5s/washingtonsblog_20092012_multiple_detailed_and/
would you like to know more?
http://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalModeration/comments/12otmi/reddits_admins_at_the_request_of_mods_from/
http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1404xm/in_the_final_week_of_the_2012_election_msnbc_ran/
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1c9z/i_am_barack_obama_president_of_the_united_states/
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http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/138yi5/i_am_al_gore_founder_and_chairman_of_the_climate/
http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/172175/til_that_during_reddits_early_days_the_founders/
more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20982985
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/24/iran-fake-blog-smear-campaign-journalist-bbc
http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/167vxc/ctv_confirms_governments_employing_internet/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/13/us-military-behind-africa-news-websites/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/02/10/rights-groups-slam-ratheyon-secret-software-that-tracks-social-media-and-predicts-peoples-future-behavior/
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/cybersecurity/hiring/index.html
would you like to know more?
http://www.dailydot.com/society/reddit-hire-spam-ian-miles-cheong-sollnvictus/
http://www.dailydot.com/news/reddit-ban-porn-mods-nsfw-bribes/
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http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/b8evo/the_community_has_spoken_ive_removed_saydrah_from/
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http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/v0kiu/wtf_reddit/
http://www.reddit.com/r/BannedDomains/
http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/18jgbj/hi_rnews_how_are_you_we_are_preparing_a_list_of/
http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/wieden-kennedy-seeks-help-old-spice-crazy-epic-job-listing-144871
2 roflcopter44444 2013-02-17
Haven't I seen this before ?
0 SincerelySincere 2013-02-17
Never! <-------/S
-1 [deleted] 2013-02-17
Anyone who uses critical thinking skills = Shill
4 Meister_Vargr 2013-02-17
No abusive/threatening language.