The problem is so much bigger than food, unfortunately.

Take, for instance, the emergent problem of 'food deserts', urban areas where grocery shopping isn't available at all, only the Corporate eatery (McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, ect.). And in some cases, you have large food deserts that don't even have fast food, or even gas station/convenience store 'cuisine'.

Lots of the people in these food deserts don't have transportation other than their feet and whatever public transport is available. So they can't just pop round the corner for some steak and eggs, or even for a McRib. They must spend money and/or a significant time investment to even get to where the food is being sold.

Let's also factor in the unhealthy attitudes regarding personal maintenance in this country overall, not just in the poor. Attitudes fostered by the Corporate system that profits off uneducated views about self-maintenance and well being.

Mmmm... Food desserts.

Your theory on "food deserts" is wrong. There are PLENTY of fresh family grocers- even in Ghettos and urban area. It just takes a LITTLE more effort and a lot more money.

You are confusing "food deserts" with the fact that ignorant people are fucking lazy and wont put effort into their diet.

My source is google maps. Please point out an urban area where one cannot find fresh food within a reasonable distance?

Your theory on "food deserts" is wrong. There are PLENTY of fresh family grocers- even in Ghettos and urban area. It just takes a LITTLE more effort and a lot more money.

This is delusional nonsense based on nothing factual.

My source is google maps. Please point out an urban area where one cannot find fresh food within a reasonable distance?

Oh, that's easy. Let's start with NINTH WARD, NEW ORLEANS.

My google-fu found a grocer less than 3 miles from lower ninth ward called L B Saints Food Store.

Have you considered that poor neighborhoods have fewer options because there are fewer buyers and more theft?

Food store sounds like they sell chips and candy convenience store spread tbh

Yeah, most food stores carry less food than gas stations. Many food stores dont even sell food. At least there are two more options within 3 miles.

Present your evidence to back that assertion.

You made an outlandish claim without backing it. I should be the one demanding proof. I told you the name of the store and its approximate distance from ninth ward. I even told you how I found them.

If you can't be bothered to confirm this then you have decided your preconcieved notions are more important than truth, and no amount of evidence can help you.

Wait a second. I asked you for proof that "poor neighborhoods have fewer options because there are fewer buyers and more theft".

Then you respond like this and accuse me of being blinded by preconceived notions?

You could have just said that it was your personal opinion and been done with it.

I never made that assertion, i asked if you had considered the possibility.

Public schooling claims another victim.

Meanwhile, we are still waiting on evidence for your outlandish claim of food deserts, since ninth ward clearly is more of a food sandbox.

This "food desert" trope caught my attention recently. I've heard two local radio interviews within the past few weeks describing this new issue. I simply hate the term. I find the argument somewhat disingenuous.

North Tulsa, Oklahoma. They had a grocery store but it died, so a guy purchased the building and started his own store. It's not doing very well.

Ok, last comment of the work week!

I have lived on the East Side of major depressed city. I have Been the only non-minority in a supermarket, the only one in line without a food stamp "card"

I have even bought cards for half their value because the owners wanted booze more than groceries.

I am not proud of that fact.

That said, in the last year I've given up drinking, other drugs, and processed foods, even red meat and pork, unless I buy it from the farm and I trust the farmer.

I feed my children bell peppers, carrots, and water.

I pay about $20 a day to feed a family of 4. Which gets me a veggie enriched pasta, an onion or rice, eggplant, breading, 4 apples, 2 oranges, a loaf of wheat bread, and 2 bell peppers.

A single parent neighbor of mine (3 kids) received about $800 a month in food stamps. That's $26 a day.

They had tons of Pop, kool aid, and preservatives. Macaroni and cheese food, microwave dinners, chips, my god the chips. A bag of chips, with no nutritional value is $3+ WTF?

It's friggin hard to drive past those fast food places. I want a burger right freeking now, I want it dripping with grease and blood, and I want a butter covered white flour bun, with bacon, extra fucking bacon.

But I am aware. I cannot do that to myself.

So my question to you, who reached out on a web forum to invisible people, what do you plan to do in your community to help people be aware of the depressed state their body and minds are being corralled into?

The internet browsers of reddit and this sub, are not the only ones that need your proclamation. As much as it is a conspiracy to sell shite food, I feel it's just as much a conspiracy to remove real community from the population.

Go outside, talk to people, I promise I will do that this weekend. You don't have to be an evangelist, you don't have to yell, you just have to be an example! Be seen!

I hope you feed your children more than just bell peppers, carrots, and water... even more hopefull, for their sake, that's not all in one blender. =P

Reddit 2025: "My nutcase parents only fed me peppers, carrots and water to protect me from the Illuminati, AMA."

/r/budgetfood

So my question to you, who reached out on a web forum to invisible people, what do you plan to do in your community to help people be aware of the depressed state their body and minds are being corralled into?

I hope you don't mind. I x-posted your comment to random acts of pizza.

Have you thought about starting a garden? I dont know if it would be possible - just a thought...

[deleted]

It's not so much that they make cheap food bad for you. It is that the size of the population multiplied by the corporate lust for profits creates a demand for cheap food. When you account for Corporate's infamous penchant for cutting corners, that's how you get unhealthy chemical compounds marketed as food.

that's how you get unhealthy chemical compounds marketed as food.

In a far less (or perhaps more) conspiratorial tone, the chemicals each serve specific purposes. They were made individually to carry out specified tasks. For example, parabens are awesome preservatives for fat. Not used for food, they're found in most beauty products, which contain fats. There's now a large body of recently collected evidence showing they're likely carcinogens. Shit. They're in your hand cream, your shampoo, makeup, etc., so it's not an insignificant risk when you're rubbing a carcinogen on your body on a daily basis.

Were these made for the express purpose of causing cancer to feed the chemotherapy industry? Please. Parabens were created by a group of nerds like us who thought they were doing something good/cool.

So now it's "now," and the question is what do you do? The honorable thing to do would be for the companies using parabens to say "oh, crap, we'll take this out and find something else. Mea culpa." Of course, it won't end there. That company and every company like it will be sued into oblivion. Billions upon billions will be spent on litigation, because WE the people will sue their balls off. Of course some people at the government could try to strike a deal and say "ok, you guys take that stuff out of the products now and we'll quell lawsuits from these guys and we all move on with our lives." CONSPIRACY OMG! The government is protecting those mustache twisting evil-doers who made parabens to give us cancer and pad their packets with money they make from their chemotherapy-drug-making subsidiary!

Yes, not all things are so innocent. Bad shit happens too. A group of asshats knowingly dumped so much sludge into Lake Erie that the surface literally set on fire in 1969. Why? Because of greed. They viewed dumping in the rivers and the lake as "free disposal" for unwanted shit. In economics that would be called a false inentive. When that stuff is found out, it should be rooted out and never allowed. My point is that not everything bad thing happening is an automatic conspiracy. Sometimes simple ignorance is what is in fact going on. That is easily countered. Help people learn what to do that is better.

I agree. My intent was not to infer conspiracy, but to point out that unhealthy chemicals get marketed as food and in regular use products.

Yes, there are cases where things of this nature are found out after the fact. There are also cases where the potential ramifications were known at some point and the undirected sale of said products continued. Also in the name of greed.

Your point is valid, but we cannot discount conspiracy as automatically a knowingly negligent action. It's actual definition doesn't contain any such value judgement. In fact, it could be successfully argued that the value judgement many people inherently assign to the word 'conspiracy' was appended by a media complicit with those who engage most frequently in conspiracies that could be judged as negative by a properly informed public.

Well put.

I realized that my approach in commenting may have looked like a straw man argument...so just in case, I found that an interesting thought in the conversation.

I don't know why you got voted down. You're absolutely right. It's all about cutting corners. Making a profit no matter what, as long as you can get away with it. Just look at cigarette or alcohol companies. They kill tons of people and I doubt it's part of some grand conspiracy.

It could be, but it much more easily be about making profit hand over fist.

Isn't this the plot of Soylent Green?

Bullshit. They are killing off the middle class. Lower classes in America and Western Europe are rewarded for procreating through the tax codes and welfare systems. The more children you have, the more money and benefits you get.

Before you downvote, just follow along with me for one second: section 8 subsidized housing, heating/energy assistance, welfare benefits, cash assistance, earned income tax credit (refundable=you get more money back than was withheld), foodstamps, free healthcare, free cell phone, and the list goes on and on. Not to mention all the "disabled" people raping social security for bullshit conditions that they either exaggerate or don't have.

All meanwhile the middle class abstain from procreating all while accumulating massive amounts of debt to go to school that they don't need for jobs that don't exist to compete with the other crabs in their collective bucket. By the time they start having kids they are 30 and too debt laden to afford more than 1 or 2. They are angry at the system but outnumbered by many who need the system to survive.

So with all due respect, i would advance the opposite argument. That government is purposely advancing a system whereby the idiots procreate and the intelligent hard workers don't. And their motive is to create dependence to control the people.

Yes, because there's nothing worthwhile than an enormous amount of fat idiots as your populace. /s

Yes, because there's nothing worthwhile than an enormous amount of fat idiots as your populace. /s

Apparently you didn't read the last sentence of my post... or take basic grammar.

You seriously think they are making people be fat? Its about overindulgence, people who think eating at McDonalds 3 times a week is ok or drinking non stop soda. People who feed their kids unbalanced diets and not encouraging exercise. Simple math, dont take in more calories then you burn.

My ex-wife--a native of China--told me there are old Chinese words that refer to the diseases rich people get from overeating, highly processed foods like white rice. Back then, the refinement was expensive so only the rich had access to the foods that made them ill. Those diseases are of course, the diseases we in the US now associate with the poor, who are now the heavy consumers of these addictive constituents.

These refined foods didn't become cheaper than "whole foods" in the US overnight. Trace history and you'll see that novelty products like Wonder Bread struggled and finally found a market. That market at the time knew the ingredients to be low quality (in terms of nourishment), but a fun alternative to the hard dark breads with which more people were familiar. My grandmother rather candidly tells me that it was considered a confection at the time and even has copies of old government posters warning the public that white flour was not nourishing.

What's changed today? The education is all there. Anyone can learn this stuff. What we know about health and nutrition has increased dramatically but common practice is to shovel this shit into our mouths and ask for more. From neurophysiology it's known that these refined compounds stimulate the brain like an opiate. They are literally addictive and the increasingly corpulent population shows us how willingly people sucking down this crap.

It doesn't take a conspiracy for this to happen. It's lack of education. UPMC did a study where they educated blocks of people at a time on health and nutrition and taught basic cooking and food shopping skills. In every single sub group, weights dropped and health factors improved.

[Edit: Typos]

These refined foods didn't become cheaper than "whole foods" in the US overnight. Trace history and you'll see that novelty products like Wonder Bread struggled and finally found a market.

Colt 45 at it's introduction was marketed specifically and only to white people. When that market became saturated, they switched things up on the marketing side and it became a staple of the black community.

Only through EDUCATION did people learn how bad malt liquor is for the body. And now, Colt 45 doesn't enjoy anywhere near the popularity it once did.

Wow--great share. I haven't heard that before.

I'm about to blow your mind, then.

Where da white women at!

Uh oh, do I need my tin foil hat for this? ;-)

Nope. No conspiracy here. Just fact.

Well...and sometimes a few angry trolls and people who thrive on post hoc fallacies. Not everyone, of course. ;-)

Newports used to marketed to trendy young white girls. There are still a few kicking around who smoke them in their old age. Kinda funny to see the looks from others in line when grandma buys a pack.

It still boggles my mind how little the average person knows about proper nutrition, and this is not just in poor or under educated populations. Read the book "The End of Overeating" by Dr. David Kessler. He talks about the changes to brain chemistry caused by salt, fat and sugar. It causes an addiction to this stuff and the junk food manufactures know it.

We have the term too. They are actually called 'wester diseases', because instances of significant cardiovascular disease and a lot of cancers only came to real prevalance post-processed food.

Would your lovely grandmother consider selling one of those old posters? (serious question)

I wonder...haven't seen them in years. I love that stuff. I have a copy of the Time Magazine issue that ran the "DDT is good for me" ad. Just wild.

Word, I love nostalgic pieces like that, and being the food nazi that I am, I would absolutely love to have a poster like that in my kitchen.

Healthy food is quite a bit more expensive than preservatives and filler.

Of course, anything thats more refined will cost more. Its about choice. You can choose to make your own food with healthy ingredients or you can buy manufactured food with subpar ingredients.

anything thats more refined will cost more.

Refined food costs less. It used to cost more until around the 1940's, when technology was developed to process grains and separate it into individual constituents almost automatically.

I agree with your remaining assertion. What I've found is that many people simply don't know how to make good food purchase decisions and how to cook. To them, the choice is the prettiest box with the least difficult instructions.

The choice is about cheap and easy. It can be like this if people wouldnt overindulge. Like with anything in the world.

Perhaps but there's also substantial evidence disproving that "cheap and easy" remains the default choice when a person knows how to make better choices. UPMC has shown, through their landmark study (I don't have the citation handy), that when a population is educated, the results are measurable. Not small measures either. BIG. They're measurable because the people changed their choices. They had better information and made better choices based on new factual knowledge.

What is your working definition of 'overindulge' here?

Because you are potentially (accidentally, I think) correct. When a person eats over refined and over processed foods, their body isn't getting the nutrients it expects or needs. Because of this, the body tells the brain that it needs to keep eating. This is what leads to overeating in a majority of cases, not some inherent cultural imperative.

This is how you get malnourished, overweight poor people.

You've already forgotten the poor aspect of the argument. In many cases they are making a choice between their food bill and their gas tank. In the case of food stamps there are restrictions on what can be bought.

It's not as simple as placing all the blame on the poor, sorry.

Umm read the OPS story.. If you are getting OBESE then its not a matter of food and gas.. Food stamps can be used on food.... I DID NOT PLACE BLAME ON THE POOR.

You didn't understand anything that was said in the post you're responding to.

He talked about rich people buying nursing homes and poor people having a higher rate of being obese. He was making a link between the two. You talked about them having a choice of food or gas then to food stamps. I never agreed with the OPs story of poor people becoming obese so rich people who are buying up nursing homes can make more money, so I didnt know why you replied with that message.

I was making an additional point about the topic. Is that not allowed? Do you have a problem with discussion of additional points relevant to the topic?

At this point, I've disregarded most of the OP's assertions and am just enjoying the discourse. Of course we can make additional points. It does help though if it is identified as such to avoid confusion...

Ronintetsuro, hit context when you look at my reply. You said "You didn't understand anything that was said in the post you're responding to." to me which I replied with what the OP had said. I dont know why your rambling on about not being allowed to make additional topic points.

You were replying to my post. Not the OP.

You rehashed concepts I had already made my stance clear on, as if you hadn't just read my clarifications. I stand by my assertions, whether you understand them or not.

You replied to my McDonald comment first smartguy.. I didnt rehash anything you said but ill leave you to your ramblings.

What you fail to grasp is not automatically rambling. That is such a lazy way to view a discussion.

[deleted]

When you find it hard to move because your too fat that should be a warning. If you get tired walking up stairs, another warning. When your lunch has enough calories to nourish a whole family for a day, you got another warning.

[deleted]

Only if there was an easy way to stop it from happening.

I think you're ignoring the impending economic collapse that's coming within the next 18 months.

Won't be too many obese people still living once that's over our heads.

Always remember that poor health also consists of poor mental health.

A person who is fed nutrient poor foods is not going to be the brightest bulb in the package. For me its not about poor physical health, its all about poor mental health, the poor physical part is just a bonus :)

Thank you for bring this issue to light, as a health advocate myself I find it astonishing how far we have degraded in terms of nutrition and health in this society. I mean the human body is not meant to take in the vast amounts of processed carbs and fatty meats while sitting at a desk all day. I really fear for the health future of this nation. It truly is sickening how they have brainwashed so many people in believing that these foods and sedentary lifestyles are ok. What really upsets me more is the big pharma moving in trying to create fat fighting obesity pills......ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!! Chemicals and garbage got us into this mess in the first place and you want to combat it with more chemicals. Please we as a society need to head the words of Buddha "To keep the body in good health is a duty, otherwise we shall not be able to keep our mind strong and clear.". Remember a healthy body is a strong mind, so I beg you people ditch the cupcake and go for a run lift some weight you will be amazed what exercise and good eating can open up for your mind.

the human body is not meant to take in the vast amounts of processed carbs and fatty meats while sitting at a desk all day.

That is such an important point. Many eating habits instilled in Americans derive from when we were still a largely agrarian society. Eating everything on your plate is a good choice when you are about to go out and labor all day. As the first generation moved into manufacturing jobs, this was still a reasonable virtue. Fast forward to today and you have totally different food and it's very, very likely that you have never even pulled weeds let alone worked on a farm. The diet, and cultural norms behind eating, no longer fit the culture applying them.

Think of all the money they'll get back from pension/retirement funds.

[deleted]

Come on JM.. You cant use common sense like that without permission. Its easier to accept there is some vast hidden conspiracy to make people fat then to admit people might have a eating problem or people dont exercise enough.

It is some companies (McDonald's, Wal-Mart, Pepsico, Tyson Foods...) given advantages and protections by the government. What we have in the USA is far from capitalism. It is Fascism, the government controlling business and the people. Which really means totalitarianism and tyranny.

Calling this a conspiracy is a big leap in faith. I don't think any one group is responsible for the obese epidemic in America. But a big factor is education, people need to be educated about food. This needs to happen at all levels: kids, parents, and grandparents all need to know what a healthy diet is and how to prepare it on their budget. it's as simple as that. Until we get an organized system of food education on a nation wide level nobody is going to change because they just don't know how.

But of course blaming big companies or wealthy people obviously doesn't solve any problems at all. Of course there are people making money off of all this, but that does not mean that they created the problems, they are just opportunistic. Thinking that anybody has that much power over a nation's culture is very naive.

[deleted]

Calm down they are only making these people fat so we can feed them to the Flying Spaghetti monster. chill out..you don't even know the power of the Flying Spaghetti monster.

We all know that.

They are poisoning outrageous. It will be our future.

That is not why they are buying nursing mobility before 60. Many cases will be much young ages.

An entire generations related to be the poor obesity is much younger these thing else is jewish propaganda. Please read this, I promise it will be brief. I promise your narrative and Irving, but in the poor. They are poisoning outrageous. It will be much more common is the process you claim to being outrageous. It will dismiss these.

Just a thought - if all of the poor people are being killed off, who is going to do the work to fuel the profit machine that 'they' operate?

They are making people fat. Food stamps only go so far, that means buying cheap food. I work in a city where I've seen the poorest fat people they are literally everywhere. It's cheaper to buy a bag of Lays and a twelve pack of Coke then it is to by a dozen apples and a bunch of kale. It's unreal, they want a sick fat generation of people it's much easier to control sick sheeple then healthy conscious people.

Is it literally cheaper to buy the chips and Coke than apples and kale, or are you using that as hyperbole to make a point?

Honestly curious here.

Well let's see. Did some quick math, 12 apples weighs roughly 6 lbs. 6 lbs of apples = approximately $9.00, a bunch of kale is roughly $2-$3. A 12 Pack of Coke= $3.99, and a bag of Lays is about $2. Some that's $11 versus about $6. Healthier food is most definitely more expensive then junk. Another point too is that in urban areas (where poor people are generally more prevalent) healthy food is very hard to come buy, groceries stores are almost nonexistent i.e the "food dessert" phenomenon.

Holy crap that's depressing. Thanks for the answer.

[deleted]

ok so...$8 total? Still cheaper

As measured by the number of calories purchased, it is true according to an article published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition about 10+ years ago. The article ran a table of how many calories $1 would purchase through a variety of foods.

$1.00 will buy a heck of a lot more calories of potato chips than calories of raw carrots.

The problem identified with this comparison is that that

1.) Calories are a poor indicator of how nourishing a food is
2.) The calories found in food is the main variable used in the 
         common decision process made by people who are 
         uneducated about health and nutrition

Combine these two with the fact that "junk food" is less expensive in this context and there's no reason to expect someone to load up their basket with raw veggies and a small amount of meat.

junk food is more calorie dense than normal food and have barely any bearing on nutrition. So yeah it's a silly study.

Yes, that's what the study pointed out. The point was that it's the public that is choosing the junk food because they see it as a "better value." The study itself is far from silly and is a highly cited research paper in the medical community.

When you find it hard to move because your too fat that should be a warning. If you get tired walking up stairs, another warning. When your lunch has enough calories to nourish a whole family for a day, you got another warning.

He talked about rich people buying nursing homes and poor people having a higher rate of being obese. He was making a link between the two. You talked about them having a choice of food or gas then to food stamps. I never agreed with the OPs story of poor people becoming obese so rich people who are buying up nursing homes can make more money, so I didnt know why you replied with that message.