Please up vote this, this isn't nutjob conspiracy bullshit. This is true media spin in the making, war propaganda beating the drums of war.

I checked out the wiki page for Christianity in Iran, and I have to say that it seems to back up the OP... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iran Iran may be a theocracy, but it seems that Christianity is alive and well there. But after how they maligned Libya (which was a great country by so many standards), nothing will surprise me.

Cherry picking. The Wikipedia article you cite lists Christian leaders who have been imprisoned and killed as a result of their religion:

Most prominent has been the death of Haik Hovsepian Mehr, bishop of the Jamiat-e Rabbani, in 1994. Recently the continuing imprisonment of Hamid Pourmand, a lay pastor of Jammiat-e Rabbani, and the murder of Ghorban Tourani, the pastor of an independent evangelical church have created international concern. Youcef Nadarkhani is an Jammiat-e Rabbani pastor allegedly "sentenced to death for refusing to recant his faith."

Also this Wikipedia article on Blasphemy Laws In Iran:

The regime uses these laws to persecute religious minorities such as the Sunni, Bahai, Sufi, and Christians and to persecute dissidents and journalists. Persecuted individuals are subject to surveillance by the "religious police," harassment, prolonged detention, mistreatment, torture, and execution.

It raises the question - why are you shilling for a country that you've only read about on Wikipedia?

This actually is nutjob bullshit. We won't go to war with Iran over a jailed Christian pastor. Israel couldn't care less about Christians. Their laws are more oppressive than Iran's when it comes to Christians in many ways. All they care about is support from idiots like John Hagee

Edit: tons of down votes and not a single response or refutation. Way to go, guys.

There's a large Jewish enclave in Iran and they are left alone. They even get respect from Iran's president.

See here

Why would they treat Christians any differently?

There are huge Muslim enclaves in America. Surely the FBI would never entrap Muslims.

And there are Arab Palestinians in the Israeli Parliament. Surely Israelis would never discriminate against Palestinians.

...and the French police don't harass against Algerians, the Spanish love Moroccans and the Portuguese treat black people equally to white people.

Why do you think that the Iranian government acts any different than the USA, Israel or any other government in the world today? Don't be naive about the situation.

They are also free to leave & they don't.

We're not talking about America, stick with the subject please.

In this historic document, we Palestinian Christians declare that the military occupation of our land is a sin against God and humanity, and that any theology that legitimizes the occupation is far from Christian teachings because true Christian theology is a theology of love and solidarity with the oppressed, a call to justice and equality among peoples.

A Moment of Truth

http://www.kairospalestine.ps/

FACT SHEET: Palestinian Christians in the Holy Land

Why doesn't the corporate media report on this? Why doesn't Fuax News' supposedly Christian bias implore them to expose this injustice?

Because it isn't copacetic with the Kosher war propaganda, and Israel's undue influences.

Why are people so quick to believe that the USA, the UK, Israel and any other country can be involved in conspiracies to fake school shootings, kill thousands of people in false-flag terrorist attacks, or steal Palestinian eyeballs but Iran couldn't possibly do anything that is just a fraction of this.

Why are people so quick to believe that the USA, the UK, Israel and any other country can be involved in conspiracies to fake school shootings, kill thousands of people in false-flag terrorist attacks

So quick? People aren't "so quick" at all, okay? As if the public hasn't been given reason after ample reason to realize and understand just how replete the false flag attack paradigm has been throughout the course of America's history. Research continues to show that America is little if not a country that's been created on a foundation of false flag attacks.

And regardless of whether Iran can or can't do something similar, the point is that it HASN'T yet been as bad a perpetrator of FFs as America has proven itself to be, so the focus should be on the United States more than anyone else here really.

To be fair, to his point, some people are just so enthralled in the idea that everything that happens is bad, that when proof/evidence says something that differs from their belief, they just reject it all together.

Obviously speaking in generalities though will allow nearly anything to be true. Not all conspiracy theorists are actually critical thinkers, but not all people who aren't critical thinkers are conspiracy theorists, etc.

To be fair, to his point, some people are just so enthralled in the idea that everything that happens is bad, that when proof/evidence says something that differs from their belief, they just reject it all together.

That's a fair point, but he also phrases his question in a manner that seems derisive toward those that are very aware of TPTB's penchant for FFs. While I don't think there's any reason to get into any fear mongering whatsoever, as it's very counterproductive, I also don't think that the OP is all too out of line in advising awareness and caution as it pertains to the subject that he/she brought up.

It may be an Iranian FF, but 1) if it's a FF on anyone's part, it would be safe to say that the US has a pretty strong monopoly on that, and 2) his phrasing, again, seems to be almost mocking of what seems to be the OP's interest in not fear mongering, but simply keeping a close watch on things.

I don't think keeping a close eye on this event is that ill-advised, and I don't think one is necessarily being a fear monger for doing so.

Oh yeah, I agree pretty much across the board with your sentiment. I was more of speaking in a generality as opposed to just about this thread >_> I apologize.

Oh definitely. Speaking in generalities, I pretty much do agree with you. There are indeed quite a few fear mongers in our midst - cough-Alex Jones-cough. I feel we need to keep level heads as much as possible, however, and also be aware that the government we live under does NOT have the best interest of the citizenry in mind - not by a long shot - and has shown that it is definitely in the Problem-Reaction-Solution business of staging FF after FF in order to get what it wants at the expense of the people.

Actually any talk about FFs, Israel, the USA, etc. misses the point completely. Unless there is specific evidence of a link between that and what has happened to this Iranian man in Iran, there is no reason to link the two. The USA might be hiding aliens at Area 51, Jews did 9/11, Bayer is infecting vaccines with AIDS, the FBI did Sandy Hook and Elisa Lam was put in the water tower by time travellers - with the govt' behind it all - but there is no legitimate link between any of that and this Iranian man in Iran.

What I don't understand is why people are so quick to trust Iran when it is a country that they have zero experience with. Most are Americans (they talk about "our government" so it is easy to tell). I'm certain none have been to Iran. It's is as if there is an assumption "America is bad, therefore 'x' country is good." And it is easy to pick the country that is seen as the "enemy" of the US as if there is a genuine dichotomy. The end result is someone shilling for Iran. Iranians don't trust their government to the extent they seem to.

Ask an Iranian - even better an Iranian who is not a Muslim - if they experience persecution in Iran.

Actually any talk about FFs, Israel, the USA, etc. misses the point completely. Unless there is specific evidence of a link between that and what has happened to this Iranian man in Iran, there is no reason to link the two.

No. You've entirely missed point behind my having brought that up. The reason has nothing to do with the "Iranian man in Iran", but with your feeling that OP is unjustified in being on alert to the possibility that there might be shillery or "spin" going on by the MSM. I'd say that given the US' track record for FFs, OP is pretty well justified in being on alert.

What I don't understand is why people are so quick to trust Iran when it is a country that they have zero experience with.

I'd say part of the reason you don't understand it is because that's not what's actually going in the OP. Again, it's more about a concern that TPTB don't continue pulling the wool over the public's eyes as continues to be the case over and over again. Iran is secondary to that.

It's is as if there is an assumption "America is bad, therefore 'x' country is good."

I think that's a limited, cornered type of dichotomy that you are imposing upon the discussion based on your own biases, and doesn't necessarily represent OP's overarching point. I may be wrong, but I certainly didn't interpret the message in the manner that you have.

And it is easy to pick the country that is seen as the "enemy" of the US as if there is a genuine dichotomy.

Certainly not for me. I think that generalization fails pretty badly (as most generalizations do) where it regards those people who can be critical of the US while understanding that no place on this planet is a utopia.

Iranians don't trust their government to the extent they seem to.

I don't know much about Iranians, but I wouldn't be very surprised if they didn't.

All this is ultimately besides the point, however.

What evidence is there that Iran hasn't engaged in more false flag operations than the USA? Most people know very little about basic Iranian history, much less what Iranians in Iran think of their government.

Take the case of Saeed Abedini, for example. He's an Iranian arrested for breaking the law in Iran. It isn't an American issue. His family - also Iranian - are the ones who said that he is being persecuted for being a Christian.

However, the conclusion being lept at is that this is somehow a media spin. This isn't a conclusion that is based on the evidence, but rather OP specifically asked to find evidence to support the conclusion. Settling on a belief and then trying to find evidence to debunk it isn't unbiased or honest fact-finding.

What were you saying during the run up to the Iraq War? "Oh my heavens... why don't people believe the government when they say Iraq has weapons of mass destruction guys? Why would the media all lie to us? why can't you just trust them? why does everything have to be such a conspiracy to you guys????"

Or were you saying "This is bullshit - I don't believe the government for a minute."

Because I know which I was saying, and I was in the minority.

It isn't my government. That's your issue as an American. No one else thought that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It also detracts from the issue at hand. What happened between the USA and Iraq has no impact on the Iranian government arresting an Iranian for breaking an Iranian law in Iran.

WMDs were a conspiracy theory. People believed it because they were gullible. Similarly, that same gullibility fuels the belief in random conspiracy theories in this sub. There is no more evidence for things people are willing to accept on faith here than there was for WMDs.

What evidence is there that Iran hasn't engaged in more false flag operations than the USA?

I think the real issue that should be looked at as it pertains to this question is 1) what evidence is there that the US has engaged in enough FFs to likely far outstrip Iran and any other modern country? as well as 2) the fact that the US, being the most powerful military force on the planet, is also the most violent and aggressive and has engaged in more wars of conquest by far than any other nation on Earth in recent history.

These two facts alone will give anyone a pretty decent indication that the US has indeed engaged in many more FFs than Iran or possibly any other nation in quite a while.

Most people know very little about basic Iranian history, much less what Iranians in Iran think of their government.

Well, if you have any information that you think contradicts anything I mentioned above, please feel free to educate me. No sarcasm. I certainly don't know everything about these subjects by far, and am always open to new information.

Take the case of Saeed Abedini, for example. He's an Iranian arrested for breaking the law in Iran. It isn't an American issue. His family - also Iranian - are the ones who said that he is being persecuted for being a Christian.

However, the conclusion being lept at is that this is somehow a media spin.

While you may be right that it might be too soon to jump to a conclusion that this involves spin, I don't think that it is all that ill-advised to be very, very wary and cautious of the very thing. If there's ANYTHING that's been absolutely proven since AT LEAST 911, it's that the MSM in the US is in the business not of educating the public, but of manipulating perspective (usually nefariously so).

This isn't a conclusion that is based on the evidence

Yes it is. I just gave quite a bit of information above here that suffices as qualitative and quantitative reason for thinking that there might (not "definitely IS", but "might") be a FF brewing.

but rather OP specifically asked to find evidence to support the conclusion.

Really?

OP states:

Please help me dig up some credible sources on this before it spins out of control, i refuse to fully believe this story until some creditable news sources research this further.

Sorry but that doesn't sound like someone who's already made up their mind to me. It sounds like someone who's, again, very wary and justifiably THINKS that their might be something fishy that's about to go on, but that is also very much willing to listen to evidence that might credibly account for other possibilities as well.

Settling on a belief and then trying to find evidence to debunk it isn't unbiased or honest fact-finding.

It's funny because it seems that casting judgment and coming to the conclusion that one is personally committed to before doing any real, thorough, critical analysis or evaluation of what's really going on and being said seems to be EXACTLY what you're doing right here with OP.

I would refer you to this information regarding begging the question. You're asserting that 9/11 and Pearl Harbor were false flag attacks to justify why the USA, instead of Iran, is responsible for imprisoning and Iranian. The initial premises (that any false flags exist) aren't sufficiently proven to assert the latter.

Let me ask you this - can you name any false flag attacks that the average Iraqi or Iranian believes were done by the Iranian government? Probably not. Few people who are not Iranian know very much about the country. And it is easy to spot, because the average Iranian who does not live in Iran is far more critical of Iran than the average American (who usually tends to be far more critical of the USA). It might be worth researching the Iran-Iraq war, or earlier Iranian history like the toppling of the Shah. Even modern events, like the explosions in the Iranian nuclear site and bombing attacks on Iranian scientists. There are far more events in Iranan history to interpret as false flag attacks. They just aren't as salient in the average American's mind.

Also this:

100% of the search results and associated videos are directly from either fox news or pro Israel / Israel funded news sources, and there's thousands of these articles/videos regurgitated word for word via nut job Christian blogs and "news" sites

That is settling on a belief and then trying to find evidence to debunk it. Googling the man's name brings up literally dozens of sources from all around the world. Dismissing literally every source by saying "pro Israel" or "Christian" is dismissing evidence. The AFP reported it. Washington Post. CNN. Jerusalem Post. ABC. Indonesian-language paper Jawaban. German-language Open Doors. RT in English and RT in Spanish. The Italain-language ICN. And, in addition, hundreds of blogs from both the right and left wing of the political spectrum - even an atheist blog has an article.

Anyone who says they can only find "Zionist" or "Christian" either thinks that every mainstream media outlet is pro-Israel or they are searching for information to prove the point they already have in mind.

I would refer you to this information regarding begging the question.

There's nothing circular going on.

You're asserting that 9/11 and Pearl Harbor were false flag attacks to justify why the USA, instead of Iran, is responsible for imprisoning and Iranian.

Sorry, but I don't even understand that sentence. Do you mean imprisoning AN Iranian? Wha? Try the sentence again if you will please because I can't respond to it since it's not structurally decipherable to me and I don't know what's being said here.

The initial premises (that any false flags exist) aren't sufficiently proven to assert the latter.

You're saying that there's insufficient proof that any FFs exist? Really? A military general STATING such isn't proof for you? Proof that the government is purposefully lying and fabricating an alibi and narrative isn't proof enough for you?

Well...okay. Not sure how to help with that one.

Again, there's zero that is circular going on.

can you name any false flag attacks that the average Iraqi or Iranian believes were done by the Iranian government?

No. I haven't talked to any Iraqi or Iranian, however - average or not - so it's no surprise that I haven't any idea.

Few people who are not Iranian know very much about the country.

I certainly don't know much about it. I've never been sufficiently interested to research it, however, so I just chalked my ignorance up to lack of interest.

There are far more events in Iranan history to interpret as false flag attacks. They just aren't as salient in the average American's mind.

Seems fair. As I said, I'm certainly not privy to too much going on there, and I wouldn't doubt that the Iranian government fucks its citizens. I don't dispute that. The problem I have is that it seems you think that the US should for whatever reason be, somehow, less criticized because we don't know whether Iran is just as bad or not. That doesn't make any sense. Regardless of what Iran's situation is, the US' situation is pretty damn horrible, and to even imply a dismissing of anyone attempting to point out the possibility that there may be further fuckery afoot is exceedingly shoddy.

Regarding the referencing you made to OP's comment, I wouldn't entirely dismiss what you noted, but you also shouldn't entirely dismiss what I quoted from him/her as well. It seems what this means is that, while you may have a point, so do I, and this further means that while I would be erred in thinking OP is "totally objective" (something I never thought or alleged in the first place), it would be just as erroneous for you to think that the are "totally SUBjective", which it does indeed seem that you are thinking.

I don't know OP, so it's not like I'm here trying to defend him/her in particular. I'm just objectively dealing with the fact that you don't have enough justification to be anywhere near as dismissive as it seems you're being. That's all.

The problem I have is that it seems you think that the US should for whatever reason be, somehow, less criticized because we don't know whether Iran is just as bad or not.

No, I think that the issue is about an Iranian in Iran. It has nothing to do with the USA. This would be like if someone said, "The Japanese are hunting whales" and I said, "Well the USA did Pearl Habor!" You're interjecting completely unrelated topics into an incident of daily Iranian affairs.

And that is the issue with OP as well. Instead of simply looking at it from an Iranian point of view it becomes "Christian/pro-Israel/FOX/USA" when none of that is involved.

There is psychology behind this. It has to do with what is called the perception of the shared enemy. It works like this: Individuals are distrustful of the USA. That is fine, no one should blindly trust the government. They view the government as against them. An enemy. And they see that the government treats Iran as an enemy. On an unconscious level they immediately feel that they have something in common with Iran, because we, human beings, have a cognitive preference toward viewing the enemies of our enemies as our friends.

The same thing happens with professional sports. If there is a team we dislike we enjoy seeing them get beat. We will ally ourselves with any other team that is against them, even if it is a team that we are not fans of.

This is why people jump to the defence of Iran, "USA Bad! Iran Good!" There is no real reason to defend Iran. It's just as crooked as the USA, if not moreso. Ask an Iranian. Everyone hates their own governments. It is just a knee-jerk response because, naturally, if we think the USA is bad then Iran, by proxy, is good.

You're interjecting completely unrelated topics into an incident of daily Iranian affairs.

I thought I was just dealing with OP's topic this whole time.

And that is the issue with OP as well. Instead of simply looking at it from an Iranian point of view it becomes "Christian/pro-Israel/FOX/USA" when none of that is involved.

Seems to me that when the very real possibility of MSM spin comes to play, it does involve at least some of those things.

Regarding "the perception of the shared enemy", I don't know if so many Americans view America in such a hostile light as to literally side with Iran.

It seems to me that you are assessing this dynamic from the perspective of how you feel others react to it, and this assessment might be a valid one, but I'm dealing with it from the perspective that I personally have and how I personally react to it...and, although I can't speak for anyone else, not much that you've said here actually applies to me or my feelings or how I look at Iran at all. Critical as I am of America, I don't for a moment think that Iran isn't choc full of its own problems and issues.

In that sense, perhaps I'm projecting in assuming OP isn't being too imbalanced, as I don't feel too imbalanced on the subject myself - at least not in the way you've defined it here at all.

Seems to me the interpretations you and I both respectively have of OPs post are colored by how we personally think about things. Duh. No surprise there, of course.

You're points seem valid enough to me, and my points seem valid enough to me as well.