rational thinker = questioning the media government, not the other way around

Yeah I never understood how people who consider themselves skeptics usually pit themselves against conspiracy theorists. They question everything from religion to alternative medicine but when it comes to the government and corruption everything is above board because conspiracies have too many variables and it is easier to apply Occam's Razor and act like they don't exist.

No, it's because conspiracy theories often require convoluted explanations that require layers upon layers of deception for things that honestly can be explained by sheer idiocy of people who try to stay in power. Basically, it's possible that there are a bunch of extremely smart people who try to control everyone else and instigate events to do so, but it's also possible that there are much more idiots who happen to be in power and fuck things up over and over. Having met enough people, I'd be more willing to hypothesize that there are more idiots than there are brilliant masterminds who are so rich and intelligent as to be able to deceive for generations (and are lucky enough to have offspring who are just as intelligent to keep up the deception). No, far more likely is that we have a bunch of idiots in charge, and they all fuck up constantly.

Idiots don't make/keep millions to billions of dollars and/or positions of power in their lifetimes without a massively corrupt system keeping them in place. Which would require a good bit of intelligence to keep from completely unraveling.

Just my two cents

No one's suggesting the system isn't corrupt.

We're all just suggesting that it's simply the ordinary type of corruption, rather than the NWO crazy talk.

Well let me pose this question to you. Corruption, if left unchecked for a long enough time, would it evolve into more?

Hypothetically, if the sort of "dumb corruption" implied is left to more or less it's own devices for a 100 years what would the society around it look like? As the corruption grows and grows, how will those committing the acts mask it even further?

It would look like this. We see people working for their own greed in lots of cultures. One of the biggest sources of examples for this is Chinese history. The government becomes infatuated with itself and does everything to keep its wealth with its supporters and officials, and no one does anything because they're either apathetic or too uneducated about the matters (and dealing with survival) to care. The corruption doesn't try to mask itself. It explains its rationale for its acts, until the acts are unexplainable and that's when a revolution happens. In Chinese history, it's usually some kind of disaster that strikes an already weakened society (due to internal conflict from corruption among other things) like a drought or flood. This triggers the people into not taking the bullshit reasons that higher ups use to explain their corrupted actions.

Actually, I guess this doesn't really answer your question. I don't think corruption can really evolve into something more. You'd need cohesion in the corrupted group who is in control, but given enough time, that group will grow large and will also split into its own conflicting factions. This is why I don't think that the NWO or Rothschild crap is possible because there is no way to keep egotistical individuals in a collaboration for generations (and this is assuming that they can somehow muster up the smart enough individuals every generation).

But apathy is more reasonable as a mechanism to continue the system. People just don't want to bother with things until it's REALLY bad. It's just human nature to not fix things unless it's completely unworkable, I mean, look at how people left Hitler alone until it was clear that they were fucked unless they did something.

So corruption can lead to an authoritarian nightmare? How is that not possible on a global scale?

I mean it is unlikely and all, but given enough time, I feel an attempt at an all controlling world government is almost a certainty

Sorry, I'm exactly sure what you mean in your comment. Could you clarify?

Personally, I don't think a world government is possible without either a realistic and gigantic threat, or one government holding enough guns without the other governments having anything at all. In addition, you'd need to be able to control every religion and its own factions. So, there probably would have been some leaping advancement in technology that is very well hidden and funded before this is remotely possible.

You're not a rational thinker if you're purposely seeking confirmation bias.

Have you made the same post on /r/skeptic?

There is a cabal. I've seen it first hand. In multiple cities.

So have alot of the people in this thread. If you want to live in ignorance, you shouldn't need someone to validate this for you. You should do the opposite though.

Take the knowledge you know and awaken others. Or at least ruffle some feathers.

Have a steak. You'll feel better.

They have the optimal good hormone to bad hormone ratio.

No. Not at all. You won't feel better. Ignorance is not bliss.

Don't believe shit. Research and find evidence. Mere belief simply will not do.

And don't wish you would have taken the blue pill. Ignorance is NOT bliss. It never has been. Knowledge and awareness can be painful, but only because knowledge is power, and with great power comes great responsibility, so you have to become more and more and more responsible the more you begin fully understanding just what's going on in the world and in the universe...and well, we're not. We're lazy. We've been indoctrinated to be lazy, sleeping, eating, tv-watching sheep, and nothing more.

We need to break out of that...and becoming more aware of the deep fabrications of this world and life will force you to have to wake up, break out of that, and begin taking responsibility for your life.

It might be tough at first, but it's basically just like working out. If you've never jogged before, it will be very, very tough at first, so start slow. Don't run too far, and certainly don't run fast. Pace yourself. Do a little bit every day. Keep at it, and before you know it, you will soon be able to run very long distances and you will be in very great shape and very physically and mentally strong.

Same thing with conditioning your mind and heart and awareness to deal with the ACTUAL reality of the world around you. Finding out just how messed up it is IS indeed pretty traumatic, but just take a deep breath, dive in, and just start swimming around slowly in the sea of information available.

You'll learn how to swim in this ocean better and better, and before you know it, you'll have a better foundation regarding what's really going on here.

Best,

I wouldn't necessarily focus on the "Illuminati" or "NWO" aspect of things, but rather something more tangible, things you can point to and talk to people about. Example, what would grab people's attention more, would it be you talking about a hidden entity that no one really has a grasp on, or tangible things that are being manipulated by said entity, things like the banking system, the monetary system, politics etc... These are all things that you can point to and talk about, but at the same time know that they are being manipulated by the entity behind the scenes. My 2 cents..

Well heres the thing. Relax. Nobody is going to "get us" because they pretty much took over about 100 years ago. Much of this has already happened. So just relax, and watch the show :)

I suggest reading some books, like shadows of power, or tragedy and hope (but thats pretty weighty for light reading)

Definitely read The Creature From Jekyll Island, it will give you the best introductory historical perspective you can find. Its truly a fantastic book.

http://torcache.net/torrent/89051ACEB5ED30A6E90D0F1DB6F579280FED1B7C.torrent?title=[kat.ph]creature.from.jekyll.island.by.g.edward.griffin.pdf.and.kindle

http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/0912986212

Also, I would stop thinking of them as "NWO" or "Illuminati" because much of that is nonsense.

I personally believe our matrix is spiritual as well as cultural, economic, military etc. I recommend the Hidden Hand dialogue and The Law of One (can't link on phone but easily googled). There are some beautiful metaphysical hypotheses that mesh quite well with the new world order. As a previously life long atheist, understanding the depth of deception in every facet of our lives made me rethink spirituality as well.

Jump off. Take a deep breath, and jump off.

Learn to live without fear.

welcome to the New World Order, bitch

0 http://lockerz.com/u/20988635/decalz/10409326/millenium_2000_the_illuminati_anthony

1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BPhYEFGaGM&feature=gv

2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_McDonald

3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zNwOeyuG84&feature=youtu.be

4 www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1889512,00.html

5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8IyREChuIg

6 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/europe/08pope.html?_r=2&em=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1322924617-Mi0StdLFsidHPV+5ZpmfHQ

7 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1877388,00.html

8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMtbJ1Dcyek

9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g&feature=related

10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNI2PJhluEI

11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SISUIhprOa8

12 http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bob-woodward-why-obama-picked-hagel-for-defense-secretary/2013/01/27/b87eb8ce-68ae-11e2-af53-7b2b2a7510a8_story.html

would you like to know more?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsEZqlvjYLc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrLFYaX75-0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mzJro8F44E

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06/02/leaked-u-s-cable-lays-out-north-american-%E2%80%98integration%E2%80%99-strategy/

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aeFVNYQpByU4

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/5796892/Russian-President-Dmitry-Medvedev-pulls-new-world-currency-from-his-pocket.html

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I wish more people could understand just how important "designed to break down Western civilization, both economically and morally" is. Because that is exactly what is happening. Just look at society, look around you, look what is considered acceptable behavior on television, in music. Ethics, morals, common courtesy, it's all gone. The nation is turning into a population of self centered, uninformed, entitled people that have no idea what is really going on.

[deleted]

Very well said. And very true..

try to think of it like this. it's a giant card table with mafia families playing at the table. occasionally one of the players gets caught cheating and gets whacked. the players fight amongst each other. but when an outside force intrudes on the game. the players band together and kill that outside force. the game continues. there is no "one" power trying to control the world. it's just a buncha goons tripping up over each other. I prefer to think of what Alan Moore said (creator of the watchmen and v for vendetta).

"there are many conspiracies of course, but the truth is far more terrifying because the world is rudderless and no one is in control of the ship". paraphrased

This subreddit is as unreliable as any other source. Every post here has an agenda every bit as much as any "Illuminati" controlling the media. Any new world order isn't a goal some small group is aiming at instead it's the result of millions of carved out fiefdoms of powerful people working for their own short sighted self interest.

People aren't as smart as we think we are. And many of those doing bad have simply convinced themselves they are doing good. Heck libertarian ideals are pretty much founded on the idea that unenlightened self interest is the best way to do things. People just don't want to accept what that ends up turning into.

Exactly. People aren't smart enough to pull off a global deception that is maintained for generations (and are not lucky enough to have descendants and followers who are just as smart). I think the far scarier thing is that there really is no one in charge, and we don't have a precedent where someone was able to take charge and put some kind of order (good or bad) to the whole world.

I think the idea of no one being in charge is so scary to people they invent conspiracies as a preferable option. The unknown is always more terrifying than the known.

Not to say all conspiracy theories are wrong just that most are due to stupidity and short sighted greed without a clear plan or goal.

Here is a guideline which might help you to evaluate the credibility of a soure: http://www.wikihow.com/Evaluate-the-Credibility-of-a-Source

Perhaps the most important aspect is, that one should always verify the primary source. Hearsay should never be enough.

I believe one should especially scrutinize articles by authors who write about lots of different topics (Alex Jones) . Some authors are very good at this, but usually it takes a lot of time to master a topic.

Research. Fact check and cross fact check. Also try to use a bit of intuitive understanding. Common sense helps a bit sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. It's problematic because there are indeed a lot of needles, but there's literally a mountain of hay, so there's a lot to sift through.

Be patient, take your time, and realize/don't have a problem with the fact that you likely WILL get lost and get fooled and get duped along the way by some information that you might initially think true but ends up being false - or vise versa. That's okay. Again, just keep researching.

Here. Check this out. Fascinating data that also deals with the NWO stuff along with a lot of other things.

Small steps. :)

All the proof you need of nwo is the bank of international settlements. The rest is semantics.

"When we are successful...and we will be (smirk)...."

Novus Ordo Seclorum

I have always thought of myself as a rational thinker

You probably still are. I think people focus too much on using the word 'Illuminati' though, as if it's a bunch of guys sat in a smoky room, planning how to take over the world. I dunno, maybe that's true, but i haven't seen any evidence for it and i wouldn't make a point of trying to convince anyone about it.

The NWO on the other hand, seems like it's a fairly out-in-the-open agenda. It's referred to a hell of a lot (by officials, former officials, and even the MSM at times) considering it doesn't exist. I mean, i just stumbled across this guy because he's a lecturer at my buddy's university; he's worked for both the US and UK government, and he's writing books like that. It's hardly a secret.

You're not crazy dude, the world is fucking crazy.

[deleted]

I have always thought of myself as a rational thinker and not one to fall for conspiracy theories

That's your problem right there (initially speaking anyway). Your inability to understand that some (not all, but some) conspiracies are actually about the most rational things out there explaining certain situations is a big problem to begin with.

Can anyone talk me out of this or show me proof I'm not actually going crazy?

This is (yet) another problem you have. You think you're, somehow, "going crazy" for thinking certain things that are actually quite valid to think.

You're, unfortunately, way too indoctrinated and bought into the bs the MSM has fed you and everyone.

Keep searching though. It seems you're just beginning to have an understanding that not everything is as it seems and the world you thought you lived in isn't quite as you think it is.

Keep digging. The rabbit hole goes veeeery deep.

Na. Don't worry at all about becoming some "tin-foil hat" type soon. After all, what is a "tin-foil hat" type? If you think about it, it's either 1) the type that the public make fun of and ridicule, and/or 2) someone that actually is not very stable and not very critical or intelligent in their investigative process so they tend to fly a bit off the handle and believe a lot of stuff that they, perhaps, shouldn't.

If you're 2, then...well...DON'T be. Stop being that. Be critical, take your time, go slow in what you investigate, and - again - cross fact check information. Be willing to also look at and investigate things from a holistic perspective - that is to say from a perspective that takes in ALL the data and information as a whole and sees what general direction it tends to point toward. One need not really understand the specific particulars about any one individual case in order to still understands just where things in general are leading or what things in general mean as far as the overall picture goes. Just be critical and perceptive. This will tend to prevent you from falling into the 2 category.

If in the process of continuing to intelligently research things, you still none the less find yourself in the 1 category - that is to say that people begin to LABEL you or try to put you in the 2 category regardless of how sound or valid you're investigating is - then that's when you have to be very strong and realize that the information you're investigating IS indeed valid regardless of how many sheep or people around you might wish to ridicule it. This is part of the reason why it's important to be diligent and responsible in the research you do, so that you don't end up being unduly swayed by a public that is more ignorant than not. You don't want to fall into or believe any research uncritically, but you also don't want to disregard valid perspectives as it pertains to things that might be considered "out there" simply because there might be a large number of people that are themselves not very intelligent, spend the majority of their time watching tv/plugged into the matrix, and as a result try to ridicule you and label you as a "tin-foil hat" type even though you're actually not that and are investigating things responsibly.

Under those circumstances, you - again - have to be strong enough to just say "fuck'em" and ignore them and just continue on moving forward and getting to the truth of things.

Realize that we do live in a world similar to Plato's allegory of the cave. You're bound to get a lot of criticism when you entertain a perspective that is different from what the majority are looking at - even if what the majority are looking at is predominantly false, manufactured, and designed to lead them astray.

Stay focused and strong.

Peace,

Illuminati is silly. What on earth convinced you of that?

NWO is a goal, not a group or force.

The question should be "have you stopped being a coincidence theorist?"

Look at law enforcement, in a murder investigation. The lower tiered staff set up a crime scene and act as security to keep evidence intact and people away - they are, in essence simply following directives, as expected. The detectives; however, are seasoned, smart and in general, have higher IQs. They gather evidence (a rational, cause and effect process) and ask the question - who benefits? I believe that Latin is qui bono?

I believe rational, logical people eventually start to ask this question of global events and financial matters. No one rational takes reptilians or David Icke seriously; however, very little in this world happens by chance on financial or political platforms without a powerful nudge from benefactors.

The great depression was engineered, world wars are financed by bankers who fund both sides. The federal reserve manages the economics of the most powerful nation on this planet, yet it is as federally managed as federal express is. The fed is a private corporation held by a pack of global banking families. Learn and make your own judgments. Don't live your life chasing or avoiding a "label" from brain dead sheep.

There is no Illuminati, its gov created to lure people away from the truth.

It would look like this. We see people working for their own greed in lots of cultures. One of the biggest sources of examples for this is Chinese history. The government becomes infatuated with itself and does everything to keep its wealth with its supporters and officials, and no one does anything because they're either apathetic or too uneducated about the matters (and dealing with survival) to care. The corruption doesn't try to mask itself. It explains its rationale for its acts, until the acts are unexplainable and that's when a revolution happens. In Chinese history, it's usually some kind of disaster that strikes an already weakened society (due to internal conflict from corruption among other things) like a drought or flood. This triggers the people into not taking the bullshit reasons that higher ups use to explain their corrupted actions.

Actually, I guess this doesn't really answer your question. I don't think corruption can really evolve into something more. You'd need cohesion in the corrupted group who is in control, but given enough time, that group will grow large and will also split into its own conflicting factions. This is why I don't think that the NWO or Rothschild crap is possible because there is no way to keep egotistical individuals in a collaboration for generations (and this is assuming that they can somehow muster up the smart enough individuals every generation).