Why investing in physical gold and silver has always been dismissed by MSM and Government as crazy conspiratorial stuff, when is so clear it has always outperformed the stock market by miles?
you know nothing about taxation (but ohhh evil gobermint take an upboat): taxation on investments happens when there is a transaction. You do get taxed when you buy or sell, not simply when the value of something you hold changes- doing it any other way would be completely unfeasible.
Property tax is different that is the fee that current legal owner ( deed holder) pays to the overlord/ true property owner ( the government ). The government can't justly demand a share of something you've bought.
Look gold and silver can certainly be taxed. It is fucking being taxed right now in California at retail. If you buy over either $500 or $1500 (I forget which) then you are able to not pay the sales tax. So you can certainly tax gold.
I'll personally be holding onto my shit until people are getting a sparkle in their eye at the mere mention of transacting in it under the table.
Private physical ownership of precious metals as an investment is poo-poo'd by investment firms because they can't make money off of it. Had you given them your money then they would have made money on fees, commissions and reinvestments.
Precious metals are much easier for Joe Blow to deal with and middlemen aren't needed. As with any other investment, you buy the dips and sell the tips (if you're actively buying and selling rather than just sitting on it). If you're going through a dealer then you expect a +/- X% of melt value. You'd buy from him at +X% and sell to him at -X%. Private deals are whatever terms are agreed upon. It's that easy.
Private direct deals are probably a bit difficult to arrange at this moment but I believe that they will be actually preferred within the next decade.
As an experiment one time I offerred someone either $60 or $65 (at the time) in two silver eagles and they chose the silver. Its all abstract but when you give even the uninitiated an option in their face then things can change quickly.
They will likely hoard those two silver coins and spend all of the worthless cash that they acquire. When people feel the metal they know that they have something of substance, something worth holding onto.
When people feel the metal they know that they have something of substance, something worth holding onto.
Repeated so often by so many. The only thing convincing about it is how many dullards actually DO think the shiny stuff will never stop being valuable.
It's the same as buying and selling any other commodity. And you are very right about how any sort of investment position can be justified if you choose the right time-frame.
I remember the silver bubble from a few years ago. It got up to $40, everyone said "It's going to reach $50 and keep going!" I cashed out at 40, made a bunch of money, bought this computer and watched silver drop like a rock the next day.
The only people interested in getting you to buy precious metals are the people holding large quantities of precious metals. I guess that doesn't mean you can't make money off of them though.
I think that gold could drop 5% from here at most and silver could drop 15% or so still. The upside though is immense and for silver is 50-150%. I've been on this path for over a decade now when I learned of the conspiracy to crash the economy. I'm just so much more fucking right than assholes that I spoke to back then so I'm in for the distance. Also I don't have anything to spend that money on now anyways so I don't need the stress of having the think about arbitrary confiscation of anything. Silver and gold will vastly outperform US stocks although of course there is vastly more potential for profit and also disaster by flipping assets.
WHat do you do with your money? Spend it. Seriously, that's what capitalism is all about. Too many people holding onto money instead of using it for its intended purpose can ruin an economy. I'm not saying you should waste it but sometimes you can spend it as an investment. Invest in your own business. Improve your home to add value. Buy something which would increase your own productivity or might decrease your expenses like new insulation in a home. This whole idea that money should be hoarded away is not only wrong but is not what rich people do with their money. They purchase established and profitable businesses, they invest in certain thigs which bring a return. This difference in mindset is one of the key differences between the two classes.
Personally I think that getting back into silver gets better by the day. The price has stagnated for a while allowing the long curve to catch up. People are not on about silver at the moment even though shit is going down like the Cypress shenanigans. I think though that there is still a bit of time for it to go sideways before it explodes upwards. The silver price can be highly volatile and it will not rise slowly. Personally I would get in now if I had a chunk of cash, although I could just wait since I believe that the price will go sideways for 3-6 months more around the same price. The upside is tremendous and the downside is minimal.
Where exactly is buying gold or silver dismissed? I used to get a weekly market/finance journal for free and they had those sensationalistic "buy gold now!!" headlines at least once every two months, even before the financial crisis.
The same goes for the business/finance sections of almost every newspaper I read. There's hardly a conspiracy here.
Well I own metal and I believe in the future of it. Its possible to cherry pick some time ranges to show that it is weak. For example, at this very moment it has underperformed in the last few years. I was recently talking with someone who says that for the long term it is all about stocks. I said but over the last ten years it has vastly outperformed stocks and he said oh yeah well what has it done in the last few years. People love them their stocks. Especially since the tax code coerces people into owning them.
Bearing in mind that gold has been the best performing asset since 2000, and that it has appreciated (in fiat currency terms) by +500% during these last 12 years, you would have expected that plenty of analysts and journalists in the "serious" financial press would have "stuck their neck out" and recommended you buy gold at some point during the period.
Well I've never seen a single buy recommendation for gold, ever, in the serious financial press.
Gold is anathema to the financial sector, and kryptonite to central bankers. They don't want you know about it.
I am afraid I do not regard Jim Cramer as a serious financial journalist - he is a pump and dump merchant and here he is touting the SPDR gold trust (GLD) which many people in the "gold community" regard as a massive scam. By gold, I mean physical gold, not paper ponzis like GLD.
The WSJ article is about actually about the disconnect between the gold price and gold mining shares, which the article argues may be undervalued.
What I said may appear to be hyperbole, but you will have to look much harder to find a genuine buy recommendation for gold from a serious financial publication.
31 comments
18 [deleted] 2013-03-18
[deleted]
9 raw_deal 2013-03-18
you know nothing about taxation (but ohhh evil gobermint take an upboat): taxation on investments happens when there is a transaction. You do get taxed when you buy or sell, not simply when the value of something you hold changes- doing it any other way would be completely unfeasible.
5 oelsen 2013-03-18
yes, it can be taxed, just like houses, tobacco and stupidity (lottery) can be taxed.
-2 JeffBoucher 2013-03-18
Not if the gold is .999 and silver is .9999 in Canada at least it's looked at as an investment.
4 62tele 2013-03-18
Which are taxed...
0 arealitychecker 2013-03-18
How do you tax the gold after sale? Does a man with a scale come to your house and demand X micrograms of gold dust?
2 hedbangr 2013-03-18
How do you tax your house after sale? Does a man with a scale come and demand x pounds of sheetrock and tyvek?
1 arealitychecker 2013-03-18
Property tax is different that is the fee that current legal owner ( deed holder) pays to the overlord/ true property owner ( the government ). The government can't justly demand a share of something you've bought.
1 destraht 2013-03-18
Look gold and silver can certainly be taxed. It is fucking being taxed right now in California at retail. If you buy over either $500 or $1500 (I forget which) then you are able to not pay the sales tax. So you can certainly tax gold.
I'll personally be holding onto my shit until people are getting a sparkle in their eye at the mere mention of transacting in it under the table.
-1 [deleted] 2013-03-18
[deleted]
1 [deleted] 2013-03-18
[deleted]
-1 [deleted] 2013-03-18
[deleted]
4 [deleted] 2013-03-18
[deleted]
13 RawbHaze 2013-03-18
Private physical ownership of precious metals as an investment is poo-poo'd by investment firms because they can't make money off of it. Had you given them your money then they would have made money on fees, commissions and reinvestments.
Precious metals are much easier for Joe Blow to deal with and middlemen aren't needed. As with any other investment, you buy the dips and sell the tips (if you're actively buying and selling rather than just sitting on it). If you're going through a dealer then you expect a +/- X% of melt value. You'd buy from him at +X% and sell to him at -X%. Private deals are whatever terms are agreed upon. It's that easy.
2 destraht 2013-03-18
Private direct deals are probably a bit difficult to arrange at this moment but I believe that they will be actually preferred within the next decade.
As an experiment one time I offerred someone either $60 or $65 (at the time) in two silver eagles and they chose the silver. Its all abstract but when you give even the uninitiated an option in their face then things can change quickly.
They will likely hoard those two silver coins and spend all of the worthless cash that they acquire. When people feel the metal they know that they have something of substance, something worth holding onto.
0 Your-Wrong 2013-03-18
Repeated so often by so many. The only thing convincing about it is how many dullards actually DO think the shiny stuff will never stop being valuable.
12 [deleted] 2013-03-18
[deleted]
4 raw_deal 2013-03-18
It's the same as buying and selling any other commodity. And you are very right about how any sort of investment position can be justified if you choose the right time-frame.
3 Beelzehubz 2013-03-18
I remember the silver bubble from a few years ago. It got up to $40, everyone said "It's going to reach $50 and keep going!" I cashed out at 40, made a bunch of money, bought this computer and watched silver drop like a rock the next day.
The only people interested in getting you to buy precious metals are the people holding large quantities of precious metals. I guess that doesn't mean you can't make money off of them though.
2 [deleted] 2013-03-18
[deleted]
3 destraht 2013-03-18
I think that gold could drop 5% from here at most and silver could drop 15% or so still. The upside though is immense and for silver is 50-150%. I've been on this path for over a decade now when I learned of the conspiracy to crash the economy. I'm just so much more fucking right than assholes that I spoke to back then so I'm in for the distance. Also I don't have anything to spend that money on now anyways so I don't need the stress of having the think about arbitrary confiscation of anything. Silver and gold will vastly outperform US stocks although of course there is vastly more potential for profit and also disaster by flipping assets.
2 Beelzehubz 2013-03-18
WHat do you do with your money? Spend it. Seriously, that's what capitalism is all about. Too many people holding onto money instead of using it for its intended purpose can ruin an economy. I'm not saying you should waste it but sometimes you can spend it as an investment. Invest in your own business. Improve your home to add value. Buy something which would increase your own productivity or might decrease your expenses like new insulation in a home. This whole idea that money should be hoarded away is not only wrong but is not what rich people do with their money. They purchase established and profitable businesses, they invest in certain thigs which bring a return. This difference in mindset is one of the key differences between the two classes.
1 Mugenski 2013-03-18
Hello billionaires. Care to spend some of that cash?
2 destraht 2013-03-18
Personally I think that getting back into silver gets better by the day. The price has stagnated for a while allowing the long curve to catch up. People are not on about silver at the moment even though shit is going down like the Cypress shenanigans. I think though that there is still a bit of time for it to go sideways before it explodes upwards. The silver price can be highly volatile and it will not rise slowly. Personally I would get in now if I had a chunk of cash, although I could just wait since I believe that the price will go sideways for 3-6 months more around the same price. The upside is tremendous and the downside is minimal.
2 destraht 2013-03-18
True but the 80's were very differnent than now. Different dynamic. China and India were economically irrelevant. Now they are very much a factor.
8 Dayanx 2013-03-18
They also don't like the millions of people investing in lead and brass.
5 themandotcom 2013-03-18
Um, it hasnt always outperformed the stock market? The year-over-year returns for the stock market have massively outperformed gold.
3 falcon10474 2013-03-18
So where do I buy my GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD?
3 falcon10474 2013-03-18
No seriously, where?
2 gwf_hegel2 2013-03-18
Where exactly is buying gold or silver dismissed? I used to get a weekly market/finance journal for free and they had those sensationalistic "buy gold now!!" headlines at least once every two months, even before the financial crisis.
The same goes for the business/finance sections of almost every newspaper I read. There's hardly a conspiracy here.
2 destraht 2013-03-18
Well I own metal and I believe in the future of it. Its possible to cherry pick some time ranges to show that it is weak. For example, at this very moment it has underperformed in the last few years. I was recently talking with someone who says that for the long term it is all about stocks. I said but over the last ten years it has vastly outperformed stocks and he said oh yeah well what has it done in the last few years. People love them their stocks. Especially since the tax code coerces people into owning them.
1 62tele 2013-03-18
As opposed to investing in "the stock market." My portfolio has outperformed the shit out if gold. Gold investing is for the lazy and stupid.
0 Mdan 2013-03-18
Examples of it being so dismissed? At least in the financial press, gold prices seem like they're treated pretty straightforwardly.
-2 Sabremesh 2013-03-18
Bearing in mind that gold has been the best performing asset since 2000, and that it has appreciated (in fiat currency terms) by +500% during these last 12 years, you would have expected that plenty of analysts and journalists in the "serious" financial press would have "stuck their neck out" and recommended you buy gold at some point during the period.
Well I've never seen a single buy recommendation for gold, ever, in the serious financial press.
Gold is anathema to the financial sector, and kryptonite to central bankers. They don't want you know about it.
4 Mdan 2013-03-18
Well, here's Jim Cramer of CNBC saying 'buy gold.' http://www.cnbc.com/id/49482843 Here's some bullish gold commentary in the Wall Street Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323316804578161230254371890.html No disrespect, but 15 seconds of Googling found those two examples. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd imagine there are many more if I spent more time.
-3 Sabremesh 2013-03-18
I am afraid I do not regard Jim Cramer as a serious financial journalist - he is a pump and dump merchant and here he is touting the SPDR gold trust (GLD) which many people in the "gold community" regard as a massive scam. By gold, I mean physical gold, not paper ponzis like GLD.
The WSJ article is about actually about the disconnect between the gold price and gold mining shares, which the article argues may be undervalued.
What I said may appear to be hyperbole, but you will have to look much harder to find a genuine buy recommendation for gold from a serious financial publication.
1 Mdan 2013-03-18
Whether you agree with him or not, Cramer's one of the best known investment recommenders in the nation. He's a household name. Here's MoneyWeek. http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/precious-metals-and-gems/gold/nows-a-good-time-to-buy-gold-55919 Here's Forbes http://www.forbes.com/2010/09/24/barrick-gold-newmont-mining-markets-novagold-resources.html Here's CBS Moneywatch on how to invest in gold http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-51301604/how-to-invest-in-gold/ Not sure why you would want a Fortune magazine saying "buy gold." That'd be the surest sign at that point to sell.
0 [deleted] 2013-03-18
Just as FDR did, I am thinking in the near future Americans will have their gold, silver confiscated. You know in order to stabilize markets....