price is 100% manipulated on the down side and clamped on the upside - it will bounce back

Or possibly crash completely.

[deleted]

Please explain to me how what I did was considered shilling.

[deleted]

You do realize how futile and ridiculous that sounds, right?

[deleted]

Im not saying its a conspiracy. Its not some ancient cabal of billionaires buying up the reserves. Im saying that gold is ridiculously overvalued.

Fear drives the value of gold up. Part of that fear is generated by fear-mongerig conspiracy theorists and get-rich-quick scammers trying to convince everyone that the economy is collapsing. You cant drive down a metropolitan street without a hand-drawn sign or a new business flying banners saying "We buy gold!"

So as a result, people buy gold, thinking that its going to save them from quantitative easing, skyrocketing inflation or the potential collapse of the economy. Supply and demand dictates that if there is more demand, the value of that product will go up. But the demand is generated by incorrect information. So far the things that the fearmongers warned about has not happened.

Paul van Eeden, president of Cranberry Capital says that the true value of gold should actually be around $900/oz:

In 2008, after the financial crisis, the Federal Reserve Bank announced the first round of quantitative easing. The gold price started to rally because there was an expectation, with the Fed openly engaging in quantitative easing, that we would see massive U.S. dollar inflation. But that didn't happen.

When the Fed engages in quantitative easing, it does so by buying assets in the open market, such as Treasury notes or bonds. When the Fed buys a government bond in the open market it creates the money to pay for it out of thin air. The payment is credited against a commercial bank's account at the Federal Reserve Bank and is not available for commerce in the economy. It's part of the monetary base, but not the money supply, as the money supply only counts money that can be used for commerce.

Thus, the money that the Fed creates is not in circulation. It's not part of the money supply because it cannot be spent. The commercial bank in whose name it is credited cannot withdraw it. The only thing it can do is to create new loans against that reserve asset. But the bank can only create new loans equal to the demand for such new loans.

Right now, as a result of QE1 and QE2, there is an enormous amount of excess reserves on account at the Federal Reserve on behalf of these commercial banks. These excess reserves in theory could be used to create new loans. The reality is that new loan creation by commercial banks have proceeded at a very normal pace, and not at all at a rate that should cause fear of hyperinflation.

http://www.theaureport.com/pub/na/14790

So what is happening is the market is correcting itself. Im sure Alex Jones and rest of the tinfoil-hatted blowhards will say its because of the Rothschilds evil doings - devaluing gold so the average consumer wont want to buy it, thus allowing the Rothschilds to buy even more gold for themselves, but so far no one has been able to accurately explain to me just how that whole conspiracy theory even holds water.

EDIT: Here's Alex saying pretty much what I expected him to say:

http://www.infowars.com/gold-collapse-the-bubble-is-pricked/

And here's an article from January saying EXACTLY what I figured:

http://www.infowars.com/house-of-rothschild-hoarding-gold-in-face-of-coming-collapse/

[deleted]

You ask:

Please explain in detail with sources and reference's, thanks.

So I do exactly that.

Then:

I don't listen to anything you say. I already know the official stance on the topics we discuss here. I don't need your repetition and regurgitation.

/facepalm

Cotratulations, Shillmemoreplz, in two posts you have illustrated exactly why discussing an issue with a conspiracy theorist is like trying to carry an intelligent conversation with a house plant.

[deleted]

[plugs fingers in his ears] "I cant hear you. Nyah nyah, lalalalalalala!"

You do it everytime you come here.

"...Cant hear you, cant hear you lalalalalalala....."

EDIT: *every time

On /r/conspiracy, if you disagree with someone, you accuse them of being a shill. That way you can prove them wrong without actually proving them wrong.

SHILL: Noun - An accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

You haven't answered the question.

I stated that the value of gold could crash. I say this based off of my opinion that its over-valued.

You called me a shill. Please explain to me your reasoning behind this.

What the fuck, I wasn't even involved in this conversation. That sarcastic comment about shills was the first thing I said in this conversation.

And actually I think that in a severe economic crash, gold will get hit just as badly as paper currency. That's why I'm invested in toilet paper and gasoline.

"Toilet paper and gasoline"

A man amongst boys.

The gold Fiasco happening right exposes State propaganda about the markets and the Economy. True economic principles still hold for those who know economics. Gold should go up against this hyper inflation we are seeing because printing money just causes inflation and devalues a currency., and when this happens people will flock to gold and other real assets.Pumping free money into the stock market will cause bubble and make stock prices too expensive, and bubbles will always burst. Poor people can't have demand either, therefore the economy will fall into depression. Anything that defies basic principles is all lies, and increase in lies, and obvious propaganda should worry people unless they are part of the lie. The manipulation of Gold = Manipulation of the free man.

Silver is at $25!! BUY BUY BUY BUY!!!

Buy it and keep it in small coin.

Please pardon my ignorance. How and where does an individual buy small coin silver? Do you personally know of and have experience with a dependable company that is not a rip off?

Just make SURE you buy the coins themselves and you get them in your hands. You don't get paper saying you own silver somewhere and you don't store it somewhere else either.

I understand. Thanks.

There isn't enough mined, manufactured and immediately accessible stuff out there to satisfy all of the people who think that they own it.

just go to a good coin shop

Thanks. I guess I should have been able to figure that out by myself. Thank you.

Look at a couple stores first to see how much they sell it for.

A good shop will sell and buy at the day's price plus a small service fee.

Thanks. I have just started looking online at stores in my area (Tampa) and most seem to be quite small and their advertising leans towards buying rather than selling.

If you wanted to buy 5 thousand dollars in silver dimes and quarters, would a small local coin shop be the place to do that?

try gainsville coins, in lutzs. I've dealt with them for years.

Thanks.

find one that has good reviews and tell them what you want to do. That's a lot of silver coin so they may have to buy cull coins from their sources to fill your order.

If I didn't have a shop I liked, once I found a shop I thought I trusted, I would maybe buy $50 or a $100 to start to see how they do things and how much I wanted to trust them.

Don't put too much faith in them quickly just because you like what they say.

That makes sense. I had already decided I would make several small buys to get a feel for the market.

Up here in Canada you can buy it directly from one of the major banks. It's super easy, and ships quickly.

http://www.scotiamocatta.com/

You should avoid banks if you can. You can buy Gold everywhere, even Canadian stuff without paying bank prices and paper work.

www.monex.com Very fair and very good product. They ship it to you as well. You can even buy bags of 90% pre-1965 coins. Or you can get the really nice new one oz coins. The Canadian Maple Leaf coins are very nice.

I have bought from APMEX.com several times now. They aren't always the best price, but list how much over spot their products are. They've seemed pretty straight so far.

I have been considering buying straight from Valcambi mint though.

Thank you.

Canned food and shotguns...lol http://youtu.be/qsMc-IswG3w

My dad hates conspiracies and wanted me to shut up about them.

But, he said, "Don't worry, Gold and silver are still high in price, once those go down a lot, then we are in trouble. The prices are manipulated already and they will be dropped before the crash so the wealthy can buy it all up at a cheap price. "

My dads no guru, but he almost never talks longer than 5 seconds.

I mean Arizona just passed its law saying Gold and Silver are now being considered currency.

They just found a lot of easily mineable gold in Nevada. That might have something to do with it as well.

Can you tell a little more about this?

Down near Virginia city near the historic Comstock claim, they came across a vein of gold that they are calling a "bonanza". Rich, easily reached ore. There is expected to be a buttload of gold extracted from it. Just the fact that it has been discovered and is owned by a mining company can affect gold prices.

As big as that vein may be it is still a promise to deliver gold and I don't see how that could counteract all of the fake promises out there. I think that the Libyan and now Cyprus plunder offers up far more immediately available gold for price manipulation.

One major point is that since gold was very low in price for a long time there was less prospecting and mine development going on then there would have been otherwise. So now a lot of these will be popping online as time goes on. I still don't think it will be anywhere near enough to keep the price down. To throw out a very rough number you will be wanting to get out of gold in say 10-15 years. For now gobble that shit up.

Also I doubt that the Nevada gold will be able to over the top fill all of the reduced production out of South Africa.

"Gold has maintained its value in terms of real purchasing power in the very long run in the US, Britain, France, Germany and Japan. Despite price fluctuations gold has consistently reverted to its historic purchasing power parity with other commodities and intermediate products."

Source : WORLD GOLD COUNCIL

Gold will always hold its purchasing power, and in time of Economic crisis( inflation), Gold is always the safe Haven.

But in a real crash, the kind where even millionaires are growing broke, would people still want gold? Let's say you're starving. Would you be willing to sell your only possession for something useless like gold?

No, you're going to be buying toilet paper and gasoline.

This is what I've always found odd. People always talk about the fact that who ever holds the gold holds the power. But why? The vast majority of people have no need or want for gold, and if push came to shove then people will just barter with things they actually need.

Its a bit of guess work since really we are living in a distorted economy with an enormous amount of the people living in intense illusion. So you have to do the equations in your head to try and guess the rate at which people will be waking up and the rate at which the system will collapse. I believe that people will be waking up and that the system will collapse and that I have only educated guess work to go on as to the exact timings. If you can time the waves of peak illusion and disillusion and peak bubble and pops as they meet then you can do very well. Some people think that things will go to the worst and they buy guns. Still guns have been a good investment even now with zero need to use them.

The government can make certain investments less liquid by outlawing them or heavily regulating them. Guns could be banned and while good to have it would make it either more difficult or dangerous to buy and sell. I suspect that gold and silver will simply be regulated with government disclosure limits set pretty damn low. So then how large of a solid and non-treacherous support network will you have? These are all gambles in a sense. I think that paper will ultimately be a big lose but even then at moments if enough people are still in massive illusion then it can be somehow still valuable. There could be a period of confusion where the shelves go empty but people still aren't bright enough to accept gold and silver. We are very acustomed to fully stocked shelves full of things that we can't afford but it could easily go towards fat wads of cash and empty shelves.

So to throw another concept out there you have price controls in an inflationary environment - something that I believe will one day occur, simply because historically it has been exceedingly common in a hyperinflationary environment. That equals empty shelves.

So gosh, lots of things can and will happen at different stages of the economical breakdown. I like gold and silver but I am increasingy aware that I might need to put on a smile and appear poor and barely able for potentially a long time while I hold steady.

Why would you expect gold to drop pre crash? It would increase uncontrollably.

[deleted]

But noone here thinks a mom and pop store is trying to manipulate the price of gold here-- were talking about the masters of finance and sometimes those that print the money in the first place...

Price is not an factor, in fact by increasing the cost of gold dramatically (in terms of soon to be worthless dollars) raises the available supply of gold for the rich and increases the demand to sell for th impoverished.

The theory is not sound.

[deleted]

But your theory contradicts itself. The paper is about to become useless so to an insider price is not a factor.

To an outsider, price is a factor. Lower prices and the layman buys, higher and they sell.

Increasing price reduces your (soon to be) worthless cash on hand while increasing the availability of gold.

[deleted]

I just lost a very long-winded response, so please forgive this for seeming short or crass. Again, crass: I am in a bad mood and I took it out on you in the rewrite, please do not be alarmed or offended.

No it doesn't...

Yes it does, phase one would be entirely to the detriment of the elite with your goal in mind, and phase two (as phase one) would accomplish everything faster, more efficiently, and with less risk.

The cheaper gold is, the more real gold they get for the paper they give them.

It doesn't matter, in your theory this is a coup d'etat by the wealthy to acquire real wealth leaving the poor with fiat.

Your phase one only risks real wealth being given to the poor in exchange for a smaller amount of (worthless) fiat. This would be what they call counter-intuitive. To make matters worse, phase one has no bearing on the success of phase two, making it not only detrimental but redundant. It makes your end-game less plausible by encouraging purchasing before selling.

[deleted]

Apparently at least two people are.

You fail to address that either way, their "plan" is not only inefficient, but potentially counter-productive as well.

There is no reason the central banks would want to make gold king so for the theory to be valid you would need another powerful group that would want to destroy fiat currency?

Who would that group be?

If paper is going to lose all its worth, won't gold lose its worth too? They're both useless.

If anything, the elite should be buying toilet paper and gasoline, not gold.

The two paper funds, GLD & SLV, act like currency on metal standards. The shares are paper and are supposedly backed by physical that the fund manager holds. Yes, when the trade value, or spot price, of silver or gold drops, the above funds drop as well. However, the paper funds price is not the same has the PM spot price. If the paper funds fail, they would most likely initially drop the spot price until demand drove the price back to close to where it was. This of course if there is no price manipulation.

I'm not talking about GLD & SLV.

What I was saying is that gold has no practical applications. You can't build stuff with it. You can't eat it. At least paper can be used for communication. Gold is just shiny.

In a collapse where paper currency loses all value, gold is just as useless as paper and will use its value too.

Gold is good for wiring...

Alright, ya got me there.

But if its only going to be used for wiring, I imagine its value may slightly decrease by a lot.

When you read a chart on a price of gold or any given stock, and the stock stands straight up like a ladder, there is no support and the ladder falls. Things that go straight up go straight down. These are some basic rules of the game. The charts do not lie , the way they work they have to build a baseline - a support level. When they go up and peak its called a resistance level. I recommend reading a few books on charting stocks like candlesticks which is eastern tech analysis and then you have western technical analysis. I would not be selling physical gold. The government repeatedly prints money and pushes the market ever higher. (Devalue of the US dollar) If a stock market crash occurs then the king dollar comes back. Go lay some gold charts over the sp500 a ticker symbol would by SPY and then lay GLD over the top of it and look it. Fuck what these reports say about this and that Figures do not lie but LIARS figure and they want your gold!!! Start the chart in 2005 I would also hold physical gold that does not tie your social security number to it!!!

yes, they can exchange their money for gold, but they are kings

Here's a thought: What if the price of gold and silver are artificially inflated as a direct result of the conspiracy theorists, survivalists and general doomsayers all preaching about the importance of owning gold over other investments?

How do we know that there isnt some cabal of individuals encouraging this type of gold rush so that they can make money off the panic?

Bait and switch, that is the game right now. Only pure fools would believe what you just said. What is happening on the surface is not what is happening behind closed doors. Stripping the greenback from the Gold standard was brilliant idea for the Elites because they could devalue the dollar, and control gold. That also means you can devalue currencies and print as much money as you want and that will make Fools believe that their paper is worth more than Gold. By devaluing Gold to the public, they cut gold demand, and at the same time devaluing the dollar, the purchasing power of the average American. In Gold, Elites will always have their safe money, Because smart people know worthless greenbacks cant buy you food. Simple as that. Gold is the universal currency, who would refuse gold payments? Nobody. So next time you buy the lies and bullshit propaganda, ask yourself how much barrels of greenback will i need to buy bread? and in that situation what merchant would ever accept dollars over gold?None. Gold cannot be devalued, what you see happening right now is only artificial manipulation to create reserves for the rich, and quietly scheming banksters. When the shit hits the fan, you will know what the scheme really was , and Gold will have its value, unaffordable to you, of course.

But if it ever got as bad as you said why would anyone accept gold either. If we are talking total economic collapse why would the merchant accept gold at all? They would have use for it in the short term. People would trade in gas, food, clothes, what ever they had.

If you say so.

Don't take my word for it. Think. You don't print money, and you don't control the value of your money. You could wake up tomorrow and your dollar can become worthless. Bernanke can do that with a flick of a pen. In such a situation, what asset holds its purchasing power? in 1800, an ounce of Gold would buy an awesome lavish night in the finest hotel. Today an ounce of Gold will still buy you an awesome night a five star hotel. Drop an ounce of gold at any lavish hotel in New York or London, I will assure no one will complain about your form of payment.

The price of gold is denominated in US dollars, so the higher the price of Gold, the more worthless the Dollar becomes. The important thing is, when prices of Gold skyrocket over night, you will need much more dollars to get it. Who will have 3000$ or Even 5000 for an ounce of gold? get it now.

A very small percentage of investors have physical gold in their portfolio.

I don't think they have that kind of buying power. If 'conspiracy gold', if you will, equated to X % value of the gold market, then perhaps. I don't have facts, but I'm thinking that most conspiratorial types are working stiffs.

Thanks. I have just started looking online at stores in my area (Tampa) and most seem to be quite small and their advertising leans towards buying rather than selling.

If you wanted to buy 5 thousand dollars in silver dimes and quarters, would a small local coin shop be the place to do that?

That makes sense. I had already decided I would make several small buys to get a feel for the market.