I posted this same thing! Why would someone who thinks conspiracy theories are crazy go to /r/conspiracy in the first place. I don't go to /r/hinduism to tell them that reincarnation is stupid. I simply disbelieve in it so hard that I have no interest in it whatsoever. And how they talk is so uncharacteristically mean...like it's some sort of tactic.

They are so transparent it's ridiculous. You can't fool us!

Actually, as soon as the bombing happened I thought "I wonder what those good folks on /r/conspiracy are saying about this" and I've been here all week.

EDIT: I mean I came here to chuckle at the silly stuff you guys say. Not because I agree with any of it.

This sort of illustrates my issue with this subreddit. It is not free, rational thought, as is claimed. It is a stubborn group of people who see phantoms in every shadow, and search for evidence to support their conclusion rather than the other way around.

Certainly, questioning the official story isn't a bad thing, but rejecting answers that you find simply because you don't like them is destructive. By its very nature, almost every theory posted on this subreddit is likely false. If this was acknowledged, there would be no issue. The problem comes when anyone who provides evidence against an "alternate" explanation is accused of being a shill or is told they belong in a different subreddit. You must make room for reason, or else this entire community is a pointless circlejerk.

you are CLEARLY a paid shill </s>

The kind of immense delusions of grandeur that go into thinking your favorite community is important enough to warrant paid shills in order to change your mind....it's staggering to contemplate. There are certainly shills on reddit, but they are normally involved in link spam to drive traffic to sites they own so they can reap advertising dollars. No one is doing that on /r/conspiracy. The thought that there are people who are paid to come here just to post opinions - no link spam, no nothing that drives real, actual revenue back to whoever is paying the "shill" - is utterly laughable.

CentCom blogtroll detected! ;)

" No one is doing that on /r/conspiracy."

You have no proof for that assertion.

Do you see link spam anywhere around here? By that I mean the posts people link for link karma. /r/conspiracy posts tend to be self posts or posts to conspiracy websites. Contrast that to /r/politics, where there was a recent scandal regarding the fact popular posters there are basically spamming links to their own websites and reaping huge amounts of traffic and link karma.

The kind of immense delusions of grandeur that go into thinking your favorite community is important enough to warrant paid shills in order to change your mind....it's staggering to contemplate.

Did you ever hear about the study that showed that contradicting evidence can actually reinforce false beliefs? This is it. It's not about the importance of the community, it's about reconciling the existence of different opinions in the face of the 'obvious' 'truth' and all the 'proof' and 'evidence'.

Yes, I've had dealings with auralgasm before, and he may not be a shill, but he loves to troll r/conspiracy and stir up shit for shit's sake.

I think you're thinking of someone else. You can search through my comment history if you want; the first time I ever posted here was several days ago.

It's not 'staggering' and it's far from laughable, clearly you have no idea of the extent of the PTB's desire for influence and their unlimitedd funding to do so

If you aren't aware of the current mainstream media's control and cooperation, you are extremely naive /u/auralgasm

Of course, who would monitor and subjugate one of the largest social media sites in the world.

Yeah, this ones a classic. They always prank the new guy with a golden age script.

Either your a shill or a dumb ass zombie .. Why would they not have people trolling along to monitor and push the crowd in certain directions ? I love how you took 20 mins to sound as sophisticated as possible when its pretty simple .. Go back to bein a lab rat and stay off this sub

Why would they not have people trolling along to monitor and push the crowd in certain directions ?

Because it's extremely pointless to employ people to shill for the mainstream opinion on the internet. There's enough people around who support it for free. That's why it's called the mainstream opinion. If anyone has any interest in having paid shills spread an opinion, it's supporters of fringe views.

It's even more pointless to try to influence 'the crowd' by posting on a miniscule niche community that consists almost exclusively of people who either disbelieve the 'official story' out of principle or already agree with it and are only here to mock the former group. There's nothing to gain here.

Reddit has millions of followers , this is the ideal spot to push an idea or way of life .. You obv dont want to give anything else a honest ear.. Do you really believe everything that has transpired is exactly how they say it did on tv ? Do you really believe the govt and media tells us the absolute truth ? Do you think an established journalist like Glenn beck is trolling for attention ? He has a prominent career why ruin it over lies ? Hes puttin his lively hood on the line exposing this huge lie thats being fed to us .. At the end of the day my opinon is worth as much as your is . But the fact still remains that the known master mind with known al qaeda ties was deported , do to national security . Instead of being detainned and interrogated .. Maybe i am feeding into the conspiracy but if i am please shoot down glenn becks theory and shoot down infowars theory . So this way i can be on the same page as you

Do you really believe everything that has transpired is exactly how they say it did on tv ?

It's assumed unless I have good reason to think otherwise. I certainly won't dismiss it outright because it's how they said it on TV.

Do you really believe the govt and media tells us the absolute truth ?

No.

Do you think an established journalist like Glenn beck is trolling for attention ?

Yes. I actually do.

He has a prominent career why ruin it over lies ? Hes puttin his lively hood on the line exposing this huge lie thats being fed to us

He's putting nothing on the line. He has a prominent career as a conspiracy theory spewing attention whore that is built on lies. The man has zero credibility outside of your community of believers. I'm sorry to say, but your filter bubble is showing.

"It's assumed unless I have good reason to think otherwise. I certainly won't dismiss it outright because it's how they said it on TV."

WTF are you doing on r/conspiracy then?!

Came via a link in /r/bestof, stayed because I like having a laugh.

Wow thanks for sharing that with me .. It seems that logic isnt for everyone .. Theres no point in speaking to you , your so blinded you remind me a horse with visors walking down the street .. I really cant figure out how you people stumble thru life

Do you know the only difference between someone who believes everything he hears on TV and the typical conspiracy theorist? The latter is anti-establishment. That's all there is to it.

Not true , what our establishment is based on and what is was coudlnt be more beautiful .. But anti police state that we see ourselves being scared into is a little more on point .. For some reason or another the govt wants more control over us and i dont see how its the best for us as a whole .. I love capitalism and besides tsa strip searching disabled kids and racial profiling i really dont have many complaints about the est.. Whats going on now , wasn't goin on in the 90s or 80s ..

Glenn Beck's entire career consists of scaring the shit out of people with conspiracy theories so that they will buy his books, buy the overpriced gold coins from companies that pay him and memberships to his many enterprises. He knows that even if he appeals to only 3% of the population, 3% of 300 million is still a sizable customer base.

Look, I am an Iraqi and a worker for a prominent civil liberties organization. I know that the government lies to you and have lost relatives because of this fact. I also know there are people in the government and the national security apparatus who want to curb civil liberties. But this is not an Illuminati conspiracy. They are behaving in natural, human ways- they either want more power or genuinely believe that less civil liberties will help them protect their fellow citizens. It makes the jobs of us fighting for civil liberties much harder when we get grouped with "conspiracy nuts" all the time.

Glenn beck is not as bad as you make him out to be. .. Your describing alex jones to the fullest .. And tour saying it yourself , that for one way or another you see things the same way just for different reasons . And forget illuminati , how about the bilderberg group? Is that a conspiracy ? Have you researched the saudi national that got deported ? Do you think those brothers master minded all this on there own ? Terrorist and conspiracy are words of the same feather .. There both used by the media to manipulate people ... Most people believe every drop they hear on tv , when this nightnare showed how false the media can be .. They were just blurting shit on air that had no facts to support it . I on the other hand choose to believe half of what i see and none of what i hear .. And its worked out for me so far .. I realized a long time ago thru history and self experiences that i will never be able to make change on my own no matter what i do .. If we all do not unite as one under the umbrella of being just a man or a women , we aint getting shit done .. The powers that be have been running shit for centuries ..

[deleted]

No abusive/threatening language. <- Sidebar rules.

Sry

And you're a perfect example of why so many people have a bad attitude towards this subreddit.

[deleted]

You have to stop using my name Dale

[deleted]

shhhhshaaa

Annnnnnnd success! You have now reduced the conversation to less than critical.

What is the interview process like for the paid shill job?

Why do you call anyone who challenges your theory's a paid shill. Why are you so scared of people debunking the theory's you believe.

then why do you go here in the first place?

By its very nature, almost every theory posted on this subreddit is likely false.

yet you're still here

The problem comes when anyone who provides evidence against an "alternate" explanation is accused of being a shill or is told they belong in a different subreddit.

so how much of an "alternate" explanation have you ever provide here? or maybe you're just being unreasonable?

or else this entire community is a pointless circlejerk.

maybe we are? but you're still here, so what do you make of it?

if you don't like it, that's just tough shit for you. you can go away if you can't deal with it. what are you going to do? tell people they can't have theories? are you going to tell them what to believe.

sorry if you are offended by other people having different beliefs than you. you might want to hang out at r/politics where they seem to conform a little more readily.

sorry if you are offended by other people having different beliefs than you. you might want to hang out at r/politics where they seem to conform a little more readily.

What a fucking strawman.

[deleted]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-scale_(personality_test)

How to spot a fascist:

Conventionalism: conformity to the traditional societal norms and values of the middle class; Authoritarian submission: a passive notion towards adhering to conventional norms and values; Authoritarian aggression: punishing and condemning individuals who don’t adhere to conventional values; Superstition; Power and "toughness"; Stereotyping; Destructiveness and cynicism; Anti-intraception; and

What this man is doing is pointing out how our society, in a major way, encourages fascism, and how the "shills" you people speak of are fascist. They are fascists by this definition, are they not? By ridiculing our ideas, and honest free thought it really does deeply, And spiritually discourage our inner most vulnerable thoughts.

I agree with everything in that post with the exception of "Anti-intraception" because I don't know what that means.

I could look it up, but I'm too lazy.

What's it called when you accuse someone of being a paid shill so that you don't have to deal with the existence of different opinions? Because that's not even ridiculing another's opinion, that's flat-out declaring that he doesn't have one because people only get to have an opinion if you agree with it.

I don't use the word shill, but when someone does use it, I usually stop reading before the following passage hurts my ability to think. If you're going to use terminology like that thwn expect negative results from the community, because you're loading your profile.

I guess that would be the difference between "X is not true according to [source]" and "lulz u dum people r craycray"

So which comes first; the chicken or the egg? Governments have never lied to citizens. Nope. Gulf of Tokin attacks totally happened. They've never manufactured consent. They've never been caught trying to stage a coup.

Noble _Flatulence : Spot on!

Do you at least concur that CNN and FOX news speculate wildly as well?

Actually, as soon as the bombing happened I thought "I wonder what those good folks on /r/conspiracy are saying about this" and I've been here all week.

Exactly why I am here

Yes! Seriously! I haven't been on this subreddit for a while...all conspiracy talk wore me down after a while. But as soon as this incident happened and I heard all the official reports this was the first place I came to try to find alternate explanations or ideas. So much of that has been lost over the last few days...

Reddit can sometimes remind me of the courthouse scene in Idiocracy.

"Go away, I'm Baitin' " Lol love that film

Fuckin LOVE that movie, have an up vote :)

I come for the same reasons; entertainment with the chance to see a solid subversive conversation. But then I get frustrated by posts that contain a checklist of false reasoning, logical fallacies, and emotional driven pattern finding wrapped in a fear-based, self-centered belief system.

"false reasoning, logical fallacies, and emotional driven pattern finding wrapped in a fear-based, self-centered belief system"

Yet you spend more time here naysaying than you probably do commenting on mainstream news articles at CNN.com. Why?

Please help us out by downvoting them and reporting if necessary, but there is no need for personal attacks.

Did you realize this thread is all about you? You're that guy.

you obviously thought it would be funny because you are a paid shill. Humor i one of the 5 points of the Illuminati pentagram

Most definitely a good point, but why would you hold one of the top comment from a viewpoint that most would find offensive? Unless this is one of those meta posts...which it very well may be.

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I live far from the US in a different time zone. When I woke up this morning it seemed like some people missed the sarcasm in my post so I edited to make it clear. It has nothing to do with upvotes. In addition I really don't care if I'm banned here.

What a two faced back handed patronizing comment. "The silly stuff you guys say..."

Might as well call us little children, little naïve children.

me too me too me too

The guys with the backpacks and khaki pants was created by a troll. The picture of those two guys touching their ear communicators was taken after the bombings had already happened.

They both stil had their backpacks on after the bombing happened. They are either government agents or private security contractors, there's no question.

If there's any lesson to be leaned from this episode, it's that no amount of security forces will ever make you safe.

There's a .0001% chance that a psychotic asshole will kill you in part of his delusional plan to try to change the world. You've got nearly a 500% better chance of getting smashed in an auto accident.

Carry on and be strong. The fewer fears you entertain, the more life you'll retain.

My personal favorite parts were the sandy hook links.

There have been at least two so far, a PhotoShop of the exact same picture of a woman with a caption saying one picture was from sandy and the other from the marathon, which got upvoted straight to heaven.

The other was three cops from sandy hook and three from the marathon that looked nothing alike. /r/conspiracy was saying they were the same people.

Between that and the "4chan cracked the case" posts i'm laughing too hard to catch my breath.

This post is quite useless, and exactly what OP is talking about. Although I don't buy into the actor theory, those 6 men in the picture did look similar, and they could have been the same group of three. The pictures are not clear enough to rule out the theory. The fact that you think it is sufficiently clear to draw any conclusion shows your bias and shows you should not be here.

As far as "4chan cracked the case", that picture does raise a lot of questions. These questions may have benign explanations, but they need to be answered. If you disagree, you don't belong here. Period.

The hairline of the man on the right was significantly different between the pictures.

The one in the middle was the only one who looked remotely similar to his counterpart. There's some decent shit here I checked top posts all time. But this is ridiculous. The actor theory doesn't make the remotest ounce of sense.

Re: the hairline. Men with a receding hairline will often have one side that recedes slightly faster than the other, giving the hairline a significantly different look depending on which side you see. The hairlines of the men on the right may be the same.

Anyone want to explain why this post is downvoted?

[deleted]

saw your post history. FYI there's a greasemonkey script "delete all reddit comments". runs right in firefox, set it up and it will delete both your post content and your username from the post

although sometimes I feel bad about deleting all my posts, there are a few good ones in there that people might want to read.

bahahahaha

If you disagree, you don't belong here. Period

In other words: "We aren't into rational examination of all possibilities. We only want to point fingers. If you don't help confirm our cognitive bias, you need to get the fuck out. Exclamation Point."

In other words:

Or, in my own words: "These questions may have benign explanations, but they need to be answered."

Maybe you think these questions don't need to be answered. Fine. Then this subreddit is not for you, just as /r/fanfic is not for people who don't want to read fan fiction, and /r/dornercase is not for people who don't want to hear about Dorner anymore.

Your post adds nothing to the discussion. You're pointing out that there is a bias in this subreddit. Thank you, this point has been made before, and we're all aware of it. Your post should be downvoted, but it probably won't be. This is the problem with this subreddit, it's overrun by people like you. When a subreddit reaches that point, it's time to find new, smaller subreddits.

These questions may have benign explanations, but they need to be answered.

Except the primarily benign, highly reasonable answers are generally dismissed during the search for a more ludicrous explanation that fits into the preshaped peghole of more overarching conspiracy theories.

Your post adds nothing to the discussion. You're pointing out that there is a bias in this subreddit. Thank you, this point has been made before, and we're all aware of it. Your post should be downvoted, but it probably won't be. This is the problem with this subreddit, it's overrun by people like you. When a subreddit reaches that point, it's time to find new, smaller subreddits.

LMAO yep can't have anyone challenge the conspiracy world view, the whole thing might collapse then. You once again prove that discussion of all points of a subject is not welcome around here, only ideas that fit a prebuilt mold should be accepted. This subreddit constantly preaches how its the last bastion of freedom yet a large number of its members promote censorship of any detractors.

Except the primarily benign, highly reasonable answers are generally dismissed during the search for a more ludicrous explanation that fits into the preshaped peghole of more overarching conspiracy theories.

The most likely answer is that they were there running security. That's probably true. Few dismissed that. In fact, most of the posts in that thread stated as much. But as of yet there's no real hard evidence. If you're not interested in that evidence, then you don't belong here.

You once again prove that discussion of all points of a subject is not welcome around here

What discussion? All you've done is make claims that we are not open minded, and that we only want to engage in some kind of circlejerk. That's not a discussion, that's just pointless and insulting. If you think someone is wrong, then explain why they're wrong; don't just say "you're wrong and stupid".

This subreddit constantly preaches how its the last bastion of freedom yet a large number of its members promote censorship of any detractors.

Nope. Check my post history, I don't think the answer is increased moderation. I'm asking people like you to kindly leave.

What discussion? All you've done is make claims that we are not open minded, and that we only want to engage in some kind of circlejerk. That's not a discussion, that's just pointless and insulting.

This whole topic is about how anyone that is critical of a conspiracy theory is a shill. You also promote that anyone that thinks a conspiracy ridiculous should not be here and should not voice their opinion. That's just as insulting as people pointing the circlejerk out.

Nope. Check my post history, I don't think the answer is increased moderation. I'm asking people like you to kindly leave.

Just in this comment thread you have expressed that people that are critical should either 1) leave and not voice their opinion or 2) be downvoted so their opinion isn't scene. How do you deal with this cognitive dissonance?

This whole topic is about how anyone that is critical of a conspiracy theory is a shill.

There's a difference between being critical of a conspiracy theory, and mocking people who buy into a conspiracy theory. You, and most of the newcomers here, are doing the latter.

You also promote that anyone that thinks a conspiracy ridiculous should not be here and should not voice their opinion.

No. If you think a conspiracy theory is ridiculous, and all you say is "that's ridiculous", or "you're stupid", then you should not be here, because you are not contributing to the discussion. If you can logically deconstruct the theory, and that's what you do in your post, then that's fine.

Just in this comment thread you have expressed that people that are critical should either 1) leave and not voice their opinion or 2) be downvoted so their opinion isn't scene. How do you deal with this cognitive dissonance?

Neither of those are censorship. You don't seem to understand censorship. Asking you to leave is not censorship. Downvoting posts that don't contribute to the discussion is censorship - the goal is to prevent it from disrupting the conversation. Downvoted posts can still be seen. I often sort posts by controversial, especially in /r/askreddit, so that I can see downvoted posts. Having mods delete your post would be censorship. I am against that.

And all of this applies not to people who are critical of conspiracy theories, but people who are critical of conspiracy theorists.

There's a difference between being critical of a conspiracy theory, and mocking people who buy into a conspiracy theory. You, and most of the newcomers here, are doing the latter.

If you think a conspiracy theory is ridiculous, and all you say is "that's ridiculous", or "you're stupid", then you should not be here, because you are not contributing to the discussion.

Well said.

Its one thing to engage in constructive criticism and take on a valid argument, it's another to post "bwahahahahah" that is plain ridicule and exacty what OP is talking about.

This sword that the OP is talking about cuts both ways.

OP also claims that this subreddit is supposed to represent " exchange of free thinking". I was laughing at a comment the supports the exact opposite of that. Hyperbolic satire is an effective form of criticism.

I don't know if 4chan cracked the case is really that ridiculous.

Beside from the appearance that they didn't "crack the case" they sure as hell were doing a bang up job in bringing forth viable suspects.

I think the sleuths on 4chan were doing as thorough of a job as they could with the evidence they were given. Which in this case was scant little. They turned a photographic landscape of a crowd into a running theme of possible scenarios.

That is commendable not laughable.

I'm willing to bet that if those same sleuths has access to the same tapes that the FBI were privy to they would of identified the same suspects in a similar amount of time.

So maybe you should get off your high horse and stay awhile. Or stay on it and ride to a different subreddit.

I think the sleuths on 4chan were doing as thorough of a job as they could with the evidence they were given. Which in this case was scant little. They turned a photographic landscape of a crowd into a running theme of possible scenarios.

Irony is, the FBI etc did exactly the same thing as 4chan but with, like 2546298356 times the sources and intel. Intel and videos and pictures that they don't share. huh. One is labeled a pestilence the other is god's word official seal of approval. hahahaha. It's either hilarious or scary. eh.

But then you gotta compare the FBI's track record of creating False Flag's and history of lies vs. 4chan's.

With power comes corruption.

4chan? That's conspiracy.

One is labeled a pestilence the other is god's word official seal of approval

And the only difference between this subreddit and the general public is that the order in which they'd answer the above is flipped.

Funny how the people who think themselves less gullible than the sheep turn out to be even more gullible.

Yes, 95% of drivers believe themselves better than average. It's funny :D <-- that is my funny face.

you dont understand. The FBI can't be trusted with anything they are CONTROLLED. DUN DUN DUN!

Hahaha very well said.

bleh! That must have been awhile ago.

See, this is what we're talking about. We come here to make outrageous claims with no supporting evidence, and entertain these wild ideas for the sake of our own amusement. Occasionally we stumble on something. Why the fuck are you here? Foil hat or gtfo.

Instead of laughing why not coherently explain the problem with the posts?

Were my responses not coherent enough? The 4chan posts had people attacking the wrong people for days.

I have not personally seen any of your responses on the matter and was unaware that you made any as you did not indicate in your post. You only stated that you were laughing too hard to catch your breath.

I also typically do not read username of the person posting, so even if I did see one of your responses there is doubt I would attribute it to you.

because then you get called a shill, and any evidence you use to support your argument is automatically disregarded because it doesn't fit the pre-accepted narrative.

People need to get over the idea that they're arguing with someone. You are arguing against an idea and it has a public audience.

It doesn't matter that the specific person typing believes you as there are untold masses that see your position as well.

Who cares if they call you a shill? If you're right, you're right, and at least you're providing a counter-argument to allow someone else to decide on their own.

I'm arguing directly with you now. You are a person, no? Sure it is publicly reviewable but nothing in a comment thread will set a precedent. Just pointing out that an idea is ludicrous and laughing at it presents a good enough counterpoint to outside observers.

You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with my idea.

You cannot argue against a person you know nothing of. You can only make baseless allegations. Though statistically not likely you don't know if I'm a 3' 4" stripper with club foot, a black ops AI program, Tupac(or Biggie), The Lindberg Baby, or none of the above.

The only reason you would try to make it about me was because you couldn't make it contextual. If you're trying to disprove me and not my idea you will always fail.

[deleted]

So why don't you tell me enough about myself to prove you know enough about me to discredit what I say?

You cannot. You argue against ideas, not me.

[deleted]

I'm really having difficulty understanding how you're not following this. I'll attempt to explain it better.

I use the term person to describe an individual personality, not specifically a living entity. Yes, I am alive and yes I am typing these responses.

But my personality is anonymous. You don't know anything about me. You are arguing against the information I present. You are not arguing against me as an individual.

If you knew me well enough to prove that my word was not credible then you would have a chance to argue against the me person, not the idea; but you do not. It doesn't matter if you like what I'm saying or not. I'm not saying it for just your benefit, I am saying it for the benefit of all that may read it.

You've also provided an excellent example of devolving the discussion by attempting to insult me. Please keep to the subject matter and leave any baseless personal accusations out of it, because as I stated, there's no way you know enough about me to discredit what I say on that basis.

[deleted]

Please explain to me how you can know enough about an anonymous individual to discredit their argument based on the person, not the idea.

[deleted]

So you have no idea what you're arguing against? You just agreed with me.

[deleted]

An internet argument is not a two person event. It's a debate. You're should not be arguing to convince the other person, you should be arguing to convince the crowd.

[deleted]

Our difference lies between the big and little picture. I concern myself with all while you concern yourself with one. I don't care if the other person typing agrees or not, I concern myself with the larger and more important audience by addressing my points calmly and clearly.

The internet is a debate. It's two opposing ideas that will almost never come to a consensus. The only thing that matters is presenting an argument that clearly describes you're side for the interpretation of the masses.

If we were sitting down for drinks you would have a valid point.

I don't go to /r/hinduism to tell them that reincarnation is stupid. I simply disbelieve in it so hard that I have no interest in it whatsoever.

Exactly! very, very good point. You don't lurk other subs you think are ridiculous, especially not on a frequent basis and just contradict the methodology behind the theory. Instead, You would just not care enough to go that way in the first place. Ulterior Motives.

I come here to laugh, and chuckle.

I often go to several subreddits of things I dislike just to loathe at them. Like /R/Digimon? Loatheeeee Digimon, but I'll go there to see what people have to say, and sit there and go to myself "god digimon are stupid".

It's a strange habit, but I'm not the only one to do it.

People come here to read the ridiculous things people have to say, offer responses, and yes, make fun.

It's amazing what people do when they fashion boredom.

[deleted]

Your tone is just mean and condescending. I don't believe that conspiracy theories hurt the families. In fact, some of the families believe in them. Agree to disagree...stop harassing us.

That's also the main issue for me. Got a different viewpoint? Don't believe in what others are posting? Fine.. but don't be a DICK about it!! There is literally no reason to be such an asshole, just state your opinion, have an adult debate or if not, & move on.. but all the endless insults & mean-spiritedness is what makes me far more suspicious that this is just a case of: 'attack those digging for the truth'.

If you are someone who is legitimately just dubious of someones theory, just explain it without being a dick. Employ a little diplomacy, that's good for everyone to develop. But when you just start attacking & insulting, right off the bat, I immediately brush you off as a shill, troll, loser-looking-for-lulz, or some other waste of oxygen, EVEN though that may not be the fact of the situation.

Again just to be clear: Say whatever you want to say, just remove the insults & bad manners. It's not as hard as some of you think!

Petty insults and shit like that shows one thing: lack of a decent argument. I've got no issue with people having different view on things, i personally don't agree with a lot of what is written/posted here. You know what i do? I ignore the crazy stuff, and i discuss other ideas about the dubious or fairly speculative stuff.

That's the problem with a lot of things posted here - the track record of the government makes a lot of it believable, but there's not much solid evidence to back up the theories. Theories are great, a lot of them make sense, but they're just theories for now, especially when we're, what, 6 days into a situation?

It's like me going over the r/Christianity and telling them they're all delusional retards for believing in such fairytales. Why would i bother? Why would i feel the need to do that?

I just realized I'm on a 3 month old thread. In the depths of the web...I can't believe this conversation happened. Shills man, fuck those guys.

[deleted]

These two comments are a great and essential argument to consider.

I think calling people shills for disagreeing with you is pretty provocative.

But, you're right, gleefully baiting people who disagree with you seems like a mean-spirited waste.

But, telling me dead people I know are actors also seems like a mean-spirited waste -- and appaling to boot.

I think calling people shills for disagreeing with you is pretty provocative.

Its very easy to tell the difference between a disagreement and an uneducated irrational unswerving defence of the status quo and mainstream agenda. We all know the mainstream arguments, better than the shills do.

mainstream arguments

You mean the ones that have real physical evidence behind them rather than insane speculation right?

This place is for conspiracy theories. A theory that's been backed up by conclusive evidence is not a theory anymore and should be in an other sub, Just like most of our new subscribers. Insane speculation is the reason the rest of us are here.

also, what the fuck is this? http://www.reddit.com/r/inthenews/comments/1cpk64/boston_marathon_explosion_live_update_thread_21/c9j2o9z?context=3

I'd like to try to give a reasonable, non-provocative answer to why I actively try to head off conspiracy theories: they can genuinely hurt innocent people. There are parents of kids who died at Sandy Hook that are being harassed by conspiracy theorists. That's just unconscionable to me.

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I don't engage in any kind of bullying tactics or abusive behavior. I've found that conspiracists actually will engage in constructive discourse, we just end up completely disagreeing about what constitutes evidence, etc. I never end up changing their minds, but I hope that someone reading the thread sees another thoughtful perspective.

[deleted]

Ah, you're right. I was paying attention to the "spending time" part and not the "ridiculing" part. My bad, you're absolutely right that ridiculing someone who disagrees with you is not constructive.

Somebody downvoted you for your comment. Unbelievable.

Scary.

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[deleted]

And in so doing you are propagating a theory concocted by someone for whatever ulterior motive they may have (I.E. making money).

[deleted]

Point invalid-subs make no one money.

Traffic makes naturalnews money.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Clicks = profit. It doesnt matter if you think Alex Jones is a sweaty, bloviating dickhead or not. If you click on his site or watch one of his videos, he makes money. He profits off of people's paranoia and uses various marketing tactics to ensure as many people know his name as possible.

He's a fear monger, wrapped in the American flag and pandering to the lowest common denominator who worship him like a god.

What if you're lying?

I don't believe in a lot of conspiracies, but I like to read them and think about possibilities, no matter how far fetched I may feel they are. I tend not to comment, but I do lurk a lot, and occasionally contribute with throwaways. People looking to make fun of or criticize conspiracies as weird or crazy don't belong here, but in /r/conspiratard

If I may, why is it that you feel the need to use throwaways when posting to /r/conspiracy?

What a painful journey that was. There should be r/conspiradont

Totally agree, I've become so frustrated with the whole thing, maybe a change in moderators might do the job or a change in how they moderate..

[deleted]

I hope you guys didn't feel as if i was having a go ,it just feels as if a lot of stuff is getting through that really annoys me, nothing worse than opening a link and the first comment you see is someone attacking the post...thanks for the comment ...

Need help? I can handle that approach.

[deleted]

Ah, man. Well I don't even know about bring a mod but I'm passionate, honest, and respectful. Let me know when you guys need a rookie.

Hivemind can be easily spotted especially when we hit the front page. If you see hivemind comments that trash this subreddit and redicules everyone here, then its your duty to delete it imo. This place is being flooded and its not a conspiracy, its just the mechanics of reddit.

I understand the problems with deleting comments and how it relates to free speech, but any comment that in general terms trashes this subreddit or laughs at us should be deleted. I'm not posting my opinions as much as I used to because of these assholes that come here.

The hivemind is awful. There's nothing more toxic to the community than when anyone who disagrees with a consensus opinion is silenced.

any comment that in general terms trashes this subreddit or laughs at us should be deleted

Like this. You're saying that anyone who goes against the consensus should be silenced. That's not helpful at all.

Trashing and ridiculing a group or subreddit is not at all helpfull and will only fuel rage between the two parties. There is absolutly no reason for it to be here. One can perfectly comment against status quo sentiment if that person is respectfull and geniune. Not a retard douchebag wanting to troll.

Nice attempt though :/

Conversely, if you see conjecture it should be disproven.

Not you again.

Hi! How'ya doin?

Which i have disapproved of as "exacerbating the situation."

Moderate posts!

Not comments!

Not users!

POSTS!

[deleted]

[deleted]

happened I few minutes after that post. but again thats ok. Despite the need to oppress critics the mods hear will never silence my voice.

Every time theres a big national story, you get an influx of douches because they are searching Reddit for Boston bombers or something. Once subscribed, they come back and mess with you on the next big story.

This place got noticeably worse after Aurora. Sandy Hook was a huge brawl. Dorner, and now this one.

I'll tell you this: the crisis actor nonsense, which is trivial to disprove, turns many of us into critics of the sub, rather than supporters, because it is an insult to the victims. "conspiracy" researchers studying JFKs murder or Cheney's war crimes are often motivated by compassion for victims who don't get justice.

Also, since this sub started to approach everything as a matter of 2nd amendment rights....I'm cool with that, but then you start to cross-pollinate with conservative law and order types, birthers basically. 80% of those guys are total asshats, and I guarantee you they think the BDP walks on water.

Agreed. However, most of us are smart enough to know a troll when they enter the room. The bot-posts and nay-sayers I smell in the first sentence and just skip over their posts. Never a constructive rebutal, just "bwahhhh's" and "I'm here for the entertainment". It only adds to the sadness of their positions.

Most of the people who tried constructive rebuttals were tired of being called shills and otherwise completely ignored

Yeah, the behavior of those who see shills everywhere is driving off the dissenters and providing jollies to trolls.

What I really hate is "Downvoted and moving on" comments that just outright dismiss me for disagreeing.

That feel.

unemployment makes trolls.

"it is an insult to the victims"

Expand upon this theory please? Unfortunately, this talking point is used all too often whenever any official story is questioned. I think it's an insult to the investigation process, but let's be honest. The victims are already victims. Everything that happens after that is purely emotionally reactionary. Our (ideal) justice system is supposed to utilize these investigations in presenting evidence to make criminals pay for their crimes. That's the only connection between the investigation and the victims (after the crime). Any other emotional response is purely biased for revenge, and cannot be trusted.

If someone that I know were a victim of a crime, I would be slightly disapproving, but understanding, not insulted, at the thought that investigation may have went overboard and campy, in an attempt to explore every angle to find the truth behind the victimization of my loved one. I would rather have too many suspects than too little. Not everyone is going to use common sense, but part of the faith in justice is believing in the ability of Detectives, Prosecutors, and a Jury to eliminate the overly absurd information.

the victims are already victims

Exactly, why make things worse for them by saying that they are paid actors.

Imagine if your son was shot dead in front of you, and as you lay there holding him some asshole on the internet said 'it's obviously fake, gunshot wounds would have left a different bloodspatter' with absolutely zero evidence and the only reason for it being brought up is someone who 'never trusts the official story' how would you feel? How would your son.

Have some fucking humanity

how would your son

He can't actu--

have some fucking humanity

-- nevermind.

When we say the victims are actors, they are no longer victims. When we say those poor families in Sandy Hook are acting, that their dead daughter is alive and posing for pictures with the president, that is a grotesque and insensitive mockery.

Ok , this makes more sense, See I was thinking in the context of Those police officers being actors.

While I don't agree with The practice, the only thing I can say is that we have a First Amendment, Which means the internet will have some vile and disgusting things said. If everyone took everything that was said on the internet personal, Society would break down overnight

Also, the big issue I have a problem with, Are the people that say when you question the official story, By not jumping on the bandwagon and blaming the people they want you to blame, That somehow the victims suffer.

This is a great post. Some of the shit flung at people here is disgusting. I've had posts saying your basically shitting on people's graves for not subscribing to a story that's been fed to me.

I ask questions because other people don't, my position on government is that for a large part they are corrupt and have bare face lied on so many occasions it'd be stupid to believe everything they say. And yeah, there are a lot of people who want true justice for people that have been so badly manipulated and killed in the name of profiteering and power. I want to expose the true account of historic events in the hope that people done fall for it again.

Do you think children were killed in Sandy Hook? Plenty of people here claimed the funerals were faked and the parents were actors, based on zero evidence.

I'm sorry, where did that question come from? I don't subscribe to those theories if you must ask. Not everyone here is the same or holds the same views. Like every other topic there is a varying degree of views held.

Sorry,I am pretty sure I misread your first reply, Cheers!

This post won't get the attention it deserves. I want to stand by and applaud you regardless.

Then they try to treat us like /b/ --

[completely ridiculous accusation by new account]: come up with a theory guise!

Then a bunch of the other newcomers take that as status quo around here.

Then this thread gets made and the latter complains about the former.

My question is, will there ever be another mass event that won't catch the eye of the average conspiracy theorist? I wasn't really surprised to see a lot coverage in here on the Boston situation, but it did get me to thinking "is anything able to just be?" Some people on here seem to look at every event with the preconceived belief that it is somehow orchestrated by some unknown group or agency. I honestly think that we've passed the point of no return and these types of approaches just delegitimize the serious questions that need to be asked and answered. Once you flood the market with conspiracy theories who in the general public are going to take them seriously? How can we expect change and accountability when we seem to be crying wolf?

Asking questions is not crying wolf.

Did I say asking questions is crying wolf? No. I'm not talking about the people asking questions and fact checking, I'm talking about the people that drew conclusions long before there was any sort of definitive official story, before anyone was identified as a suspect. Now think about it, if this happens every time a major event happens do you think the general public are going to in future pay any attention to what we have to say? Of course not, because we will just appear self indulgent and irrational. Even if it is only a few people doing it, they tend to be the loudest and then they make us all look bad.

And that's the biggest problem right there. You nailed it right on the head, just about.

Conspiracy theories that cite "scientific proof" that turns out to be an incorrect interpretation of science are a really strong contributor to this effect.

Why would someone who thinks conspiracy theories are crazy go to /r/conspiracy[1] in the first place. I don't go to /r/hinduism[2] to tell them that reincarnation is stupid.

Practitioners of Hinduism (generally) don't make a major component of their religion be calling everyone else that doesn't believe in it, "stupid/sheeple".

Proponents of conspiracy theories, such as the numerous ones that this event has inspired, make it a huge point to accuse everyone that doesn't subscribe to their theories of being stupid/sheeple/blind/whatever.

This pisses people off, and they come here to sound off.

[deleted]

Do you read the stuff that is posted here?

Not only do a non-insignificant percentage of the people here believe it wholeheartedly, and not only do they look down the the ones who don't, but they they are so full of themselves and the "enlightenment" they've achieved:

Check this guy out

I'll be getting my 10 year Plaque here in a few months and i have to say, i'm glad i took the red pill!XD It's kinda amusing watching the puppets show/dance while I sit on the side of the stage smoking a cig with a smirk. The best part is watching another puppet cut the strings and come up to you " Dude... did you know that...." Me: " YUP, have a seat bro"

No, I think this is a perfect example of ass soon as the event happens the conspiracy is crowd created and accepted whole heartedly

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right because CNN reports no facts. Its not that a discerning person could understand the biases and filter the facts thru what is presented, its actually the case that anything they say is lies and the opposite of whatever they say is true until proven otherwise. Got it.

[deleted]

I'm helping because I'm sarcastically pointing out that CNN does actually report some facts, so I'm 'helping' your argument because...?

they don't?

[deleted]

I never said everyone here believes only nonsense. I never said everything but CNN is nonsense, a lot of CNN is nonsense.

I never said truth isn't complex and doesn't require work to discern (in fact I implied the opposite)

'McNews' and using an absurd anonymous post on 4chan as the basis of your arguments are two entirely different ends of the spectrum.

It's really absurd that because I don't believe that these guys were patsy's (or hadn't jumped to that conclusion days ago) and because I believe Sandy Hook was not a false flag, suddenly I'm a McNews chomping temper tantrumming bully with no valid points.

No I don't have new evidence for you, I don't have a video tape of these guys doing the deed. So I guess the preponderance of evidence is with 4chan anonymous, please don't mention him

But people who can't entertain alternative ideas are stupid sheeple.

No, people who don't entertain clearly ridiculous ideas are critical thinkers.

[deleted]

In the context of this sub it is; anytime someone is called a "sheeple" here, it's because they won't accept some ridiculous and obviously insane bullshit.

[deleted]

Can you show me once where it wasn't? Good luck.

Sounds like a bonafide conspiracy.

Why would the mere fact that lots of people use the same logical fallacy imply that they are working together in concert?

...Today in /r/conspiracy, /r/conspiracy poster doesn't know the meaning of the word conspiracy. Have to say, that's a new low for here.

/r/christianty is (ironically) less likely to take the "holier than thou" attitude than /r/ atheism, and infinitely less likely to invade the other board.

So while i disagree with the conspircy culturalists insulting demeanor, apparently that alone is not enough for religious boards to constantly invade those that insult them and disagree with them.

Conversely, /r/atheism subscribers tend to shit on religious posts, even when they are in the appropriate board.

There seems to be an underlying psychological reason to go to great lengths attacking those who disagree with you or insult you, not a rational one.

No it's actually the opposite.

It's probably the same individuals that come here and call everyone sheeple who also call us conspitards. Classic divide and conquer

You can't just go around saying nonfactual statements without sources and evidence. As of right now, no one has cold hard evidence. I need evidence. For instance, give me evidence that the holocaust did not happen.

So start a sub where no ideas, theories or questions are allowed. Call it /r/onlyfacts or some shit like that.

And then we will start a new subreddit called /r/onlyflimsyideasicameupwhilesittingonthetoilet.

No, wait, there's already a subreddit for that.

So what are you doing here?

Comedy.

Oh... "Herp derp, im better than everyone" got it.

Speculating on what on what you already know is fine, coming up with theories with no supporting evidence whatsoever? That's /r/conspiracy

Some of us feel that we have been lied to so much that the burden of proof is now on the government, but they never give proof. They just act the same way the trolls in this subreddit are acting...dismissive in a suspicious way.

No no no no you're missing my point here. You do not need the government for your proof. For example, the World Trade Center 7 towers. All you need is science. the tower fell at free fall. Anybody can discover that. That's what evidence is.

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Give a historical instance please.

BofA's gross negligence and fraud concerning all of the faulty foreclosures that have happened over the last few years.

2006-2013 crash in real estate market.

But there is ample scientific evidence to explain why Tower 7 collapsed at free fall speed (temporarily) but everyone dismisses that portion of the report and instead uses it to reinforce their pre-conceived ideas.

I agree! The burden of proof is on the state. That's not even controversial, that's how our legal system works.

That doesn't make me a shill for disagreeing with people who say that there is a troupe of actors travelling from crisis to crisis pretending to be cops.

I get what you're saying, but I promise you that this will lead you into a spiraling (up or down, your choice) realization that there's no such things as truth and there's no such thing as evidence. There's only a story that one person tells and another person chooses to believe or not to believe.

Believe nothing of what you hear or read, and only a tiny fraction of what you see.

And if you don't see it happen first-hand, in real time, with undisputable evidence that what you're seeing is real and unbiased (in your own head, especially), then it's not evidence for you.

You don't have to believe anything if you don't want to. In fact, not believing anything is really a beautiful source of freedom.

Noone argues that the holocaust did not happen.

There is a large amount of debate regarding statistics, motives, and the specific methods used for eliminating and disposing of the jews.

Drawing from an extremely large amount of sources some people of have come to inductive (read: not unfalsifiable) conclusions on what happened.

I'm sorry I dont' have sources as this is hardly an area of deep interest to me; I only responded because a common tactic to marginalize dissenting thought is misrepresentation, which it appears you were a victim of.

[deleted]

I agree with this, but that is still not proof of any alternate theory or speculation. And, if I disagree that the guy with his legs blown off is not photoshopped, someone will smugly call me a shill.

People's legs get blown off in explosions. I don't think this is a lie the PTB told me.

not sure if sarcasm

or actual retard

I like to argue on the Internet. Whenever I see an interesting topic that I disagree with, I input my opinion.

Is my opinion not wanted?

This subreddit is full of confirmation bias and logical fallacies. Why are you comparing my coming in and pointing these out to someone pointing out the flaws with someone's religion? Are you implying you're entitled to your delusions in much the same way religious people are?

What's wrong with people going "Yeah, this is illogical"?

You have to admit that there is a lot of confirmation bias here, friend.

like it's some sort of tactic

What kind of tactic? Like, what is that supposed to mean? I'm not paid off to disagree with people on the Internet, if that's what you're implying.

Sometimes, people just honestly disagree with you.

Yet you never adapted you approach? You just kept trying "this is illogical" rather than "this is illogical because xyz"?

The definition of insanity is trying the exact same thing expecting different results.

Logical argument and disagreement is beneficial. When each side brings a viewpoint and their evidence, they can both learn something. The problem is the ad hominem attacks.

From my months of posting here - honestly, I think the most consistent attacks on this subreddit are by those who write everyone off as 'shills' simply because they're a bit more skeptical instead of just assuming everything is a government conspiracy, false flag, etc.

I do agree that it's obnoxious that some people see this as a place to come laugh at who they view as 'crazy' though, instead of a place the offer different viewpoints and discussion.

[deleted]

Does having geeky hobbies and not having a girlfriend somehow make me wrong?

Isn't this just a baseless attack, for no real reason except self-satisfaction?

Maybe because hearing an opinion that differs from yours is the cornerstone of conversation and allows you to consider things you hadn't thought of before?

But most people are not offering a new perspective...just bullying/calling names.

When I first started posting in here, I was the same way. I came in with guns blazing, firing off insult after insult. But I discovered that incendiary comments only propagate more of the same. So now Im trying to be more diplomatic. Its a daily challenge, but Im learning a lot in the process.

Well okay...you're not going to really change anyone's mind (except maybe a couple) nor will we change yours. But have fun!

Im not trying to change anyone's mind, only to get them to see that there are other sides to the story and that most of the information that they take as fact is really just someone's opinion.

[deleted]

The information I take as fact, are actually facts.

"History is written by the victors"

'Facts are written by the rulers.'

"Opinions are like assholes: everyone's got one."

LOL TINFOIL HAT = i know you may not believe in lizard people but you're in the same category as people who do so i'm going to disregard everything your group has to say.

To be interested in conspiracies doesn't mean you have to put every major world event down as a conspiracy. You can't have rational discussion or investigation if you aren't allowed to point out that someone is full of shit and speculating based on nothing. Show some facts about why you think it's a conspiracy and your arguement is valid and up for further scrutiny. Scrutiny is good. Without it this sub is pointless.

I find it ironic that you and OP find it disturbing that people are questioning other's radical (let's face it...all of our ideas are considered radical, whether right or wrong) ideas and opinions, whilst supporting scrutiny of the powers at be.

We know absolutely nothing about what happened in Boston, relatively speaking. So why should I listen to some asshat on the internet who says it's all a conspiracy? We have very little information to make an assertment on, only assumptions, and I'm not going to be told that I'm not allowed to tell someone they're an idiot for stating their opinion (which is based on practically no actual information) as fact.

Also, inb4peoplesayingimagovernmentshill.

it gives more fuel to the fire, like eh man if you dont believe it why are you trying so hard to discredit it?

Should this sub be one big circlejerk where everyone agrees on the same thing? That seems kind of pointless, dont you think?

It's okay to disagree...we are just talking about the really suspicious group of people who come into this subreddit solely to disagree and bully.

That's the thing, the "true believers" NEVER concede a point to a dissenters, which leads me to believe that many here considers all who disagree with them a shill.

You are right, but people shouldn't be bashed because their human nature is to ask questions and share their ideas on a social media site...

I fully agree with this. But this works both ways: Just because I disagree with a particular theory, and am able to point out the flaws in the logic of that theory, doesnt make me a shill.

Its one thing to provide counter points with an open mind, another to act facetious and entirely dismissive.

Because you people are willfully spreading disinformation that other people may stumble across and accept as fact

honestly I disagree with pretty much all conspiracy shit. But if you really want to know why I swing past here occasionally is because I find conspiracies and the people that follow them extremely amusing. I comment and argue because a lot of the times amount of mental gymnastics needed to believe this stuff is baffling to me and I can't help but point out flaws sometimes. Sometimes I just want to ruffle feathers.

Believe it or not the vast majority of people that disagree aren't "shills" they are people that looked at the "evidence" for these conspiracies called BULLSHIT! to themselves and were compelled to voice that belief. The very fact that people around here automatically call people shills for voicing disbelief just tells me that the are unable to actually articulate why they think that the "shill's" view is off base and instead feel the need to discredit them.

Go look at Building 7 fall down and then come back here.

[deleted]

Do explain it for me, please.

[deleted]

How did it fall down? edit the support beams just magically vaporized?

[deleted]

How was Building Seven destroyed by politicians? Surely, they beat paw and gnashed tooth against sharp steel and managed to wrestle the foundation down in a day?

[deleted]

First of all: what request? The only time you ever asked me a question before was when you said "BAHAHAHAHA really?"

As to: Sandy Hook, Aurora, and Boston, I don't have to use what happened with WTC7 and apply it to Sandy Hook, Aurora, and Boston, because WTC7 went down in Manhattan, not Sandy Hook, Aurora, nor Boston. Therefore, the incidents are independent of each other. I am pointing out clear discrepancies in the official story they (media & govt. officials, CEOs, etc.) provide about what happened to WTC7 because I recognize that point as the "Achilles' Heel" of the Official 9/11 Story. There are discrepancies anywhere you look at it, but when you have to chose the most plausible one, you don't have to look any further than WTC7.

You never clearly addressed my request to you as exactly how Building Seven, was, as you say, "destroyed."

If you happen to do a little research, you'll see that the NYFD "pulled" the building with explosives.

It's physically impossible to put enough explosives to take down a building the size of WTC7 in the span of a day while simultaneously dealing with the worst terrorist attack in the history of the United States; and yet they seemed to accomplish the feat with impossible speed.

The only logical explanation that remains is that the explosives were placed on the foundations in the months or weeks leading up to 9/11. This would indicate prior knowledge of a catastrophic event on 9/11. Why would one want have such knowledge, I wonder?

The owner of WTC7 was soon compensated in large denominations of dollars due to the insurance policy he had on the building.

I would say that there is more than enough probable cause to be deeply suspicious of the official story.

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Believe it or not, but the vast majority of people who use the word "shill" are from /r/conspiratard.

But not all :(

[deleted]

Believe it or not, but the vast majority of people who use the word "shill" are from /r/conspiratard.

But not all :(

Wait, so you don't think that the government hired actors to play dead/injured people in the bombings?

Obvious shill right 'ere.

Ok, give it a shot, smartmouth. Articulate, as you say, the conspiracy flaw in the WTC bldg. 7 theory, if you got it all covered. I'm really curious what you figured out.

The problem is, many people who claim to be skeptical - also claim to know all the answers with limited information. It's understandable to look at WTC7 and be skeptical. However, it's not understandable to take some few unknown or misunderstood pieces of evidence and claim to 'know' exactly what happened. This I feel is the biggest non sequitur I see in most discussions. People just claim to 'know' simply because they have a distrust in the government, MSM, TPTB, etc.

I consider myself a skeptical person, but my threshold to believe in most conspiracies is pretty high. I often try to offer different explanations so that we can attempt to find the truth, even if it's not a sinister plan devised by the Illuminati. To me, that's the point of being a skeptic - as the side bar says: to create a more 'transparent world'. But sometimes the world just isn't as black and white as some skeptics try to make it.

Not understanding your question, though I'm not the person you replied to. Are you claiming there is evidence of something else destroying WTC 7 besides WTC 1 and 2 falling into it, and it burning uncontrolled all day?

You do realize no modern steel building ever collapsed of fire in history. Ever. Until WTC 1&2. Plus, firefighters pulled Building 7 in a controlled demolition. Do you not research the news?

You do realize no modern steel building ever collapsed of fire in history. Ever.

So? How is this evidence?

No human ever ran a sub-4-minute mile until Roger Bannister. That statement is not evidence that he didn't do it, or that he's an alien from outer space. Understand?

Yes but you didn't have three Roger Bannisters breaking the record on the same day.

You also sidestepped Bld. 7

Yes but you didn't have three Roger Bannisters breaking the record on the same day.

Again, so what? Do you understand that, merely because an event is rare or unprecedented does not mean it didn't happen? I asked for evidence. Saying something is rare is not evidence it did not happen.

You also sidestepped Bld. 7

Sidestepped what? I asked if you had any evidence of an alternate theory of why/how it was destroyed. You keep repeating the all-too-common 9/11 Denier fallacy that "rare" = "impossible."

I never said WTC never happened. Just the heat from the fires alone was nowhere near enough to weaken nor melt the steel, even with the fireproofing blown away in Towers One and Two. Strangely enough, Building Seven had no loss of fireproofing but the media still claimed it collapsed by the same mechanism as One and Two, even when firefighters later admitted that they gave the order to 'pull' the building.

It is simply impossible to successfully place bombs on critical building supports in a single day, and still successfully blow up a building in the middle of downtown Manhattan during America's worst crisis in history because of "safety reasons". Does it not bother you that the owner of Building Seven was present during the order to pull the building and later claimed an insurance policy to the tune of millions of dollars? Does it not bother you that to successfully demolish a building like Building 7 requires months of planning, and could not be physically done in a day?

Rare does not equal impossible but many extraordinarily rare events happening all at a single time usually indicate some semi-invisible hand guiding these events.

I don't even wanna get into the Pentagon, NORAD, or Shanksville. It's clear to me you're only interested in denigrating people's opinions rather than seeking the truth.

I never said WTC never happened.

You implied that, because "no" steel-framed building had ever collapsed from fire before, it was impossible for WTC7 (and 1 & 2) to have collapsed from fire. That was your implication.

Just the heat from the fires alone was nowhere near enough to weaken nor melt the steel, even with the fireproofing blown away in Towers One and Two.

Citation needed.

Strangely enough, Building Seven had no loss of fireproofing but the media still claimed it collapsed by the same mechanism as One and Two

Who gives a shit what the media claimed? They're wrong as often as they're right. You can read the NIST report, or any of a half-dozen other actual engineering studies on the collapse, to understand that's what happened.

even when firefighters later admitted that they gave the order to 'pull' the building.

LOL... Really? You're still repeating this lie that's been debunked for a fucking decade? The infamous "pull it" quote? We've known for a decade that what was being discussed was the decision to "pull" the firefighting efforts out of the building and let it burn. Anyway, to "pull" a building in demolition means something entirely different than to demolish it. But don't let reality mess with your delusion.

It is simply impossible to successfully place bombs on critical building supports in a single day, and still successfully blow up a building in the middle of downtown Manhattan during America's worst crisis in history because of "safety reasons".

You're absolutely correct, which is one of the many reasons why this didn't happen.

Does it not bother you that the owner of Building Seven was present during the order to pull the building and later claimed an insurance policy to the tune of millions of dollars?

There was no "order to pull the building." There was an order to remove firefighting from the building, and no, it doesn't bother me that he was there when that decision was made. If it were my building, I sure wouldn't want any more firefighters to lose their lives in a futile effort.

Does it not bother you that to successfully demolish a building like Building 7 requires months of planning, and could not be physically done in a day?

Why would this "bother" me considering I know that fires destroyed WTC7, not demolition?

Rare does not equal impossible but many extraordinarily rare events happening all at a single time usually indicate some semi-invisible hand guiding these events.

LOL. No, no it doesn't. Not at all, and this is an incredibly unsupported and illogical statement. What is your support or rationale for even saying this?

I don't even wanna get into the Pentagon, NORAD, or Shanksville. It's clear to me you're only interested in denigrating people's opinions rather than seeking the truth.

Translation: "I'm in over my head and this guy is asking for proof I can't provide, so I'm going to run away."

Citation: http://wanttoknow.info/

Citation to what? I've been there a million times, it's just blog posts from anonymous doofuses.

There's a 9/11 section that has detailed citations.

Yeah... I've read it. It's the same nonsense that's been going around for a decade, and none of it is true or correct.

Look at my response to /u/JabberWocky above

I noticed a LOT of good comments were getting crazy amounts of downvotes. so i mentioned that right now instead of downvoting- to just upvote relevancy, ignore, or if you dont agree comment why because so many downvotes can be seen as censoring info at such a time when info is vital. My post about downvoting itself was then downvoted to shit

Actually, I think it might be more a matter that some conspiracy theories are worth exploring and some conspiracy theories are utter nonsense.

Or do you think that anything and everything on /r/conspiracy is 100% true and believable? And should not be debated at all? I exaggerate to make a point, but what about a post on how the Holocaust was a total lie and no Jews at all were killed? Would you agree, or would you shut that person down with blinding speed? (by shut down I mean point out holes, discredit, etc).

This is what intellectual discourse is made of: to put it crudely, it is to expose bullshit to the sunlight.

Because believing in conspiracy theories doesn't mean you believe in every conspiracy theory

Considering that people here don't even offer theories as much as conjecture and speculation, it seems like a pretty obvious answer to your question.

Why? Because It's fascinating to me. Sometimes good points are brought up (and even I'm curious about some stuff with the bombing, like the arrested old man and the Saudi who is to be deported) and other times I laugh at how off the wall it can be (some 9/11 stuff is too far gone, I can accept the idea that the government helped or allowed the planes to hit, but going much past that and it becomes "tv" for me)

With that said I only comment when I know for a fact that something is wrong, such as the Newtown principal at Boston too, (I know the son in law of the principal, she was older) but for the most part just like the entertainment....same reason I also read nutsy left and right wing subs.

Not trying to be mean, I've just always liked this stuff, I'd listen to Coast to Coast am with my dad and grandmother and watch alien shows and all that, its fun.

I come here because I like to hear different points of view and admire people that seek the truth. Then when I get here I realize this subreddit is flooded with misinformation, half truths, out of context garbage, racism, and I realize this isn't a subreddit of truth seekers.

It's not that I don't hold with some conspiriatorial notions, or I wouldn't post here. I just believe that Sherlock Holmes was right: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true."

Eliminating the impossible is part of that task. So yes, I will call bullshit where I see it. But always with an eye towards furthering the pursuit of truth.

because it's entertaining to read all of the crazy conspiracy theories.

Personally I come here to laugh. If you go to an old folks home and laugh at this kind of complete loss of touch with reality people think that you're an asshole. Luckily for me, we're still allowed to laugh at conspiracy nuts. It's even encouraged in some places.

You can't fool us!

Says the conspiracy theorist.

But joking aside, I am one of those people who think most conspiracy theories are crazy (I probably wouldn't normally use that word, though.) I come here (not regularly) to see how people think differently than I do. I sometime come across comments that upset me, mostly when I see comments that completely disregard logic, but I generally refrain from responding unless I have anything that adds to the conversation.

What always gets me is that you would assume that people that believe in conspiracy theories would be more open-minded towards analyzing and interpreting information that is relayed to them, but more often than not I see people looking at things much less open-mindedly and just crying foul.

Well Youtube has this same issue of peopple going onto certain videos of whatever like bible stuff, conspiracy thing for example. All to simply bash on those whom believe it, consider it, or interested in it for learning and etc. It's like why waste your time seeking that out if you know your not going to believe it?

Shill's are a useful indicator. I say let them come. Iron sharpens iron.

So anyone that disagrees with you is a shill?

[deleted]

Are you speaking hypothetically, or specifically to me?

[deleted]

ad hominem

What is this in reference to?

did you pay the gold price for that misinformation or the iron price?

I posted this same thing! Why would someone who thinks conspiracy theories are crazy go to /r/conspiracy in the first place. I don't go to /r/hinduism to tell them that reincarnation is stupid.

Yes, one must suspect anyone here just to repeat negativity and defend the status quo.

Normal people just wouldn't bother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jj98AOeqws

to have done with the judgment of god

opinions. Everyone is allowed to one.

is this sarcasm?

I came here knowing I was going to be reading a bunch of hilarious bullshit by people who lead lives that are so boring, they would question the motives of farts coming out of their own asses, just so that they would have something to do.

[deleted]

Or flexing at the mall?

Uh, what does an iPhone have to do with anything? Oh, because I posted in that thread, you just assume I am some Apple fanboy who waits in line 10 hours for each new iPhone, right?

Why the bullying/ridiculing?

I guess /r/conspiracy started to scare some individuals/organizations enough to start paying shills and assholes to disrupt and discourage those who belong here. It stinks to hi heaven.

I'm here because you guys are funny as hell. I can't believe the tenuous links you make and the way you act like 4chan is a more credible source than the police themselves.

[deleted]

Of course they do. They don't let out info that can interfere with the way they handle a case.

[deleted]

I'm sure "release pictures of people of interest with the caption THIS GUY DID IT" is exactly the kind of help they meant.

Maybe because believing in hinduism doesn't hurt the victims and their families. You can pretend that they don't, but these theories about the victims being actors, etc 100% do hurt people. Personally, I find some of the posts here repulsive.

How do they hurt people?

I know it might be hard for you, but assume Sandy Hook was 100% real. Your 7 year old daughter just died. The worst feeling in the entire world. Now people are accusing you and your daughter of being government shills or actors or whatever. Don't you think that this would intensify the horrible feelings. There were interviews with those parents where they talked about how horrible the theories were for them.

Maybe...what about with this event though? The Boston one.

People are saying that the guy who lost both his legs was an actor. Now multiply that 100 times across everyone involved, everyone hurt, and their families.

No one said that.

Yeah they did. [http://imgur.com/xKt4DSz] (this was posted to this subreddit).

Okay they did.

Yes they fucking did, lazy moron. You couldn't even do a modicum of research to check?

There was an entire post about a picture of an army veteran who had lost their legs and then people trying to say that he looked like the guy who lost both his legs in Boston. An entire post about how the army veteran was an actor in this tragedy. Why would you say that no one said that without checking if anyone had said it?

Well fine if someone said that then I disagree with them but I respect their opinion. Maybe they are correct!

Because the people that believe they're actors, fake, in on the staged event have been leaving threatening phone calls to the victims and their families and have harassed them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/15/gene-rosen-sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory_n_2481912.html

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/11/17699840-conspiracy-theorist-harassed-aurora-shooting-victims-families-cops-say?lite

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/07/nation/la-na-nn-aurora-victims-conspiracy-20130207

To be fair, some stuff posted here is purely speculation written as fact. A lot of people take that and run with it. I question a lot myself, like the official narrative of september 11th, president kennedy, gulf of tonkin, but I don't like misinformation. If I see something on here, I do as much research as I can to debunk it. I'm not talking about debunking UFOs or numerology and religious stuff. I don't believe in that. I'm talking about when someone posts a picture claiming a guy who just had his lower legs blown off, is an actor who lost his legs at the hips in Afghanistan. When people claim a TOW missile blew up the fertilizer plant in Texas. When people say Navy Seals had the IEDs in their backpacks in Boston. When people say haarp is the cause for earthquakes and hurricanes. When people say there's a conspiracy with meteors, because there's video of 3 or 4 in a week, when you can talk to any sailor and he'll tell you of meteor showers all night long on the open ocean. There's just so much fantastical theories here, it makes the whole sub look bad.

Well said.

But.

To be fair, some stuff posted here is purely speculation written as fact.

SOME?? Most everything that gets posted follows the same narrative. Its an opinion based on circumstantial evidence that miraculously gets trumpeted as incontrovertible fact and if you disagree with this, you are labeled a shill. There is no reasoning. There is no consideration for an opposing view. You either agree, or you are working for the government or part of the liberal whore media.

Its really sad that intelligent debate cannot be conducted here. I keep hoping, though.

Pretty much every single person in this subreddit who calls other people shills is a paranoia loser who can't separate fantasy from reality. That word, "shill," has really become their calling card. If I see someone using it, I know that they're an unthinking mouth-breather who will howl in fury when nobody buys their insane, irrational and imbecilic "theories".

This is the most perfect comment I have read in months.

Many people who get involved in conspiracy theories suffer from mental health problems. Not all, but many. I myself had a mental condition and was drawn to conspiracies due to my paranoia. I got medicated, and stopped obsessing, only looking at it with interest. I'm not trying to say you/we're all crazy..but a lot of us are, and sadly they tend to be very influential to others.

Aww shit. I better stop going on r/conspiracy 24/7 braj

Its no worse then the group think in any other semi popular sub. Go over to r/politics, express an unpopular opinion and watch the downvotes tally up.

[deleted]

Yup, facts are a sign of smugness now. Thanks for letting me know.

Man, your viewpoint definitely reflects mine. Thanks for saying this. I've known lots of ex-military who weren't brainwashed conformists, and knew exactly why they were doing what they were doing and looked forward to the day when they were done.

To add: Empiricism and skepticism go hand-in-hand, and the most important thing is not to jump to early conclusions. Speculation is fine if you're laying grounds for a new route of inquiry, but you have to phrase your questions in a neutral fashion which allow for confirmation or denial. You have to accept you could be wrong in your suspicions.

If people would adopt this viewpoint we'd be a hell of a lot closer to figuring out how to pass this plutocratic bolus and get to a better place for all of us instead of calling each other names.

I agree, and thats the negative side of a massive influx of people. When you are in this conspiracy business for a long time you start to become more grounded, but I can clearly remember my first years researching and reading this stuff and my mind was wide open.

Many people are only now waking up, and the subreddit is being flooded. The masses are by definition a stupid entity and they ussually do not make a place better by their presence. They destroy quality by diluting it in quantity.

Its the nature of man basicly, its becomming very hard to maintain this subreddit but we have already created such a nice community it'd be a shame if we left it to rot.

So we have to start cleaning it up ourselves and report stuff to the mods. The mods are one of us, so I'm certain they will do their best to clean up without infringing upon free speech.

[deleted]

They just look barely similar. I posted about them earlier. You can find it in my submitted links.

^ this

Judging from your comment history, you've taken recent notice of the /r/conspiracy subreddit, and from your military and security background you feel the need to... protect people in security?

I'm trying to feel out your angle.

EDIT

You're exactly to whom I'm addressing this submission. Seriously all you do when you come to this subreddit is provide negative comments. What benefit do you gain from this?

I don't feel the need to protect anyone. My background in the military and security tells me not everything is a conspiracy. I was never ordered to do something and keep it a secret. Never ordered to turn a blind eye. Never ordered to torture. You may calk me a minion or whatever. But if I saw something fishy, I'd be talking about it, because I don't believe anyone would come and silence me. I only care abut myself and the guys I deployed with, and the guys I work with. I work in a hotel, so I protect people's privacy and belongings. I worked at a bar so I protected patrons and property. I was a scout in the army, so my job was reconnaissance, observing and reporting. In Iraq we patrolled, waiting to get hit by an IED or take small arms fire, and we also escorted engineers to set up for voting in 2006. Did a few raids to take blacklisted people into custody. Got shot at and blown up, never dropped a jdam on an apartment. Never shot up a marketplace. Dealt with only 2 technologies considered secret at the time, not sure if they still are, I'm not going to look them up, but one dealt with detonating IEDs, and the other dealt with communications. I never witnessed a violation of the law of land warfare. I have nothing to hide and no one to protect. I don't have an angle. I just want the truth. Not speculation. Not fantasy. I understand there is a "fog of war". In the army we had a blue 1 contact report. Goes "callsign, contact, north (direction of travel), out." Then you develop the situation and report. Deal with the initial contact, gather as much info as possible as soon as possible and pass on the info. That info is subject to change as details become clearer. It seems people take the first piece of information as fact and that stays concrete in their minds. That's what needs to change. First reports are often inaccurate. But they stay that way despite newer clearer details emerging. That's what I want to fight. The ignorant and sometimes intentional transmission of misinformation.

I appreciate your candor.

Do you ever think that maybe you were compartmentalized?

I'm sorry if I offend you, but it sounds like from your military and security experience you've been heavily indoctrinated with a pro-statist and pro-authoritarian view of society. And it's sounds like, if there's one thing you're trying to protect, it's your world view which will be challenged in this subreddit. Consciously or not that, in effect, is what it appears you're doing with the insults.

Regardless, I appreciate the sentiment.

I do believe in law and order. I wonder why the fuck we're in Afghanistan. I wondered why we went to Iraq, tho to be honest I did wish to volunteer for the invasion, and later felt foolish for that. I deployed not in the mindset of making the world safe, protecting America, making life better for Iraqis, I deployed in the mindset of protecting my soldiers and doing all I could to make sure they came home safe, with doing the least amount of damage possible to the people and property in Iraq. And in case you're interested, despite being combat arms and going on over 350 to 400 patrols, I never killed anyone. Only really shot warning shots are cars that got too close. I saw the effects of sectarian violence, and made up my mind they were better off under Saddam Hussein.

Like I said, I do believe in law an order. I don't believe in giving up my rights to achieve that. I believe I have the right to drive past a DUI checkpoint without stopping, because I don't drink. I believe in stop light cameras, buy they need to be vastly improved and fail proofed. I believe in gun background checks because sometimes felons do try to buy guns legitimately. I do believe that a law abiding citizen should be able to own a semi auto rifle with 30 round mags. I believe in concealed carry. I do believe there are aggressive and psychopathic and abusive police officers, and I believe there are great good officers who really are police for the idealistic dream of making their community better for everyone. I believe weed should be legal. I believe our troops should be in mexico if anywhere, destroying drug cartels. That's what directly affects America. I'd say a bunch of the gun related gang violence in america can be directly attributed to drug trafficking.

So take that as compartmentalized or brainwashed or a shill, but I'm not entirely on one side of the fence or the other.

And thanks for having a civil conversation without calling me a Jew shill.

May I ask you what your perspective is on Bradley Manning and especially the collateral murder video?

Lastly, I would like to mention two factors that greatly influenced my anti-war penchants. If it could be of interest to you.

Very easy to digest.

-The Tillman Story http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568334/

(The film is about the 2004 death of U.S. Army Ranger Pat Tillman in the war in Afghanistan, the cover-up of the true circumstances of his death, and his family's struggle to unearth the truth.)

-War Is A Racket http://www.scribd.com/doc/2624419/war-is-a-racket

(War Is a Racket is the title of two works, a speech and a booklet, by retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two time Medal of Honor recipient Smedley D. Butler.)

Who downvotes this?

Exactly. That's the problem. That's a great comment. No controversy. There's no content to downvote...yet they come. Scary.

Sounds like your reality bubble isn't popped yet and your comments are "push back". It's normal. But not sure why you are here if your bubble hasn't been burst yet? Go dig into 911, media lies, JFK, WW1, WW2, The central banking cartel, for starters, and get back to us when the bubble is gone.

Maybe start here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4

Downvoted why? Dare I say the Sh__ word? Conspiracies abound, even WWII, America's beloved war.

Do you believe in long wet kisses that last three days?

[deleted]

No personal attacks.

Cant believe this was downvoted.

The benefit is that it gives me something to do when I'm bored. That's the only benefit needed, but of course the melodramatic minds of r/conspiracy can't stop at that conclusion.

and from your military and security background you feel the need to... protect people in security?

He's probably being paid to be here.

Not everyone who comes here and gives what they think is a rational answer is a payed shill. When he's giving his opinion hes a payed shill and when you give yours your advocating free speech?

You don't have to, he does it for free!

Just noticing that now are you? I've only been on Reddit for about 2 years, and it's become maddening to even express a point of view without at least one or two people a) calling you an idiot, b) labeling me a conspiracy nut, c) or on occasion, threatening to harm me in very creative ways.

I've been on for 9 months and I've seen /r/trees , /r/atheism , and /r/gaming become one minded, closed community groups, not to mention all the rise in spam. 9 months. Not long for the honeymoon to come to an end

I'm one of the outsiders you guys are hating on in this thread, but you do realize that you just criticized a bunch of subs for becoming one-minded while bemoaning the fact that people are coming in and challenging your viewpoint, don't you?

I don't think many here are opposed to a proper discussion of facts or speculation. You'd have to spend time here to see the difference.

Most front page posts went from 0-20 comments to being over 100, with the bulk of the new comments be jokes, insults, and sidetracking comments and not pertaining to the content. That's what this thread is about- the destruction of the discussion.

Really? I've found that whenever someone argues with a post that isn't an obvious trollpost, they get downvoted to hell and called a shill

Double post, sorry

I think most of the people that try to argue properly have been shown the door rather harshly

I was almost with you, but I really hate "sidetracking the discussion" as a rhetorical device to shut people up. I kind of get that this is a niche forum that has come under intense scrutiny of late, but I hate that argument nonetheless. Saying, well we defined the terms of the debate and you going outside of those invalidates your arguments just seems weak to me.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I think redirecting the discussion through tangential arguments is a large and effective issue.

One of the most effective ways to get someone off topic is to put them on the defensive about something that is outside the subject.

A great example is creating a debate about Zionism vs Judaism in a discussion about whether or not it's prudent to allow holders of dual Israeli/American citizenship into some of the higher levels of government.

Challenging in a rational dispute would be fabulous. What I see is childish behaviour of know it all types that bring up long debunked theories mixed with propaganda techniques or we observe downvoting of the most reasonable post that have facts and upvotes for stupid posts that come straight from /r/conspiratard.

I was having a discussion today (staying on point, and not making it personal) and this dude actually said:

" If I could only tie you to a chair throw buckets of ice water at you and slap the ever living dog shit out of you until you woke up to reality." - User: Livefortruth

I believe that was in a post that I made because I remember reading it. My post was about being called a Truther and the constant name calling that seems pervasive in this sub. OP hit the nail on the head.

Seems he only posts on certain subs and only on Terrorist or military subjects. Seems like some soldier who might work in engineering or communications. This was an odd one I found:

My guess, some fat Reservist using his rank title to get internet cool points.

Has an ego over reservists which is why I thought he was military (but like a communication or some other non combat division)

Ha! Well you have to give him points for at least being creative.

What kinda scares me? He seems to know exactly what he's talking about, like he read it in a manual.

What? He's hardly describing some advanced torture technique, just tying someone to a chair, throwing water at them and beating them.

I get that it's pretty messed up to say that to someone but it hardly takes a lot of brain power or knowledge to come up with.

No, I understand that...but if you followed our conversation from the start, you would see how that just jumped out (without provocation). I had an odd feeling that he viewed me as some kind of animal, an how dare I question his authority. I believe he is either military, or ex military.

It's like he knows you need the cold water to keep waking you up when you pass out, so they can beat you again. It was just...kinda creepy. Normally someone would say "I'd like to beat the crap out of you". Not, "I'd like to tie you to a chair, throw buckets of ice water on your face, and slap (beat) the living dog-shit out of you". It's very specific.

I notice that in your little paranoia stream-of-conscious blurting there that the only thing he said that you didn't requote was "...until you woke up to reality."

Telling. Quite telling.

Ya, that last part really changes everything. I guess I was more concerned with his desire slap the living dog-shit out of me, and less concerned with the part about me waking up to (his) reality. Sorry about that, and thanks for pointing it out....my bad.

What I meant is that you focused entirely on the threat, spun it into wild and crazy paranoid fantasy, and in doing so pretty much demonstrated that you have no grip on reality.

Basically what I'm trying to tell you is that in complaining about this guy's insulting comment, you have pretty effectively demonstrated the personality traits that inspired the comment.

TL;DR: After reading a few of your comments, I kinda want to tie you to a chair, throw a bucket of cold water in your face, and slap you silly until you come back to reality.

And no, I was never in the military.

Well then, like him I'll simply report you and leave you to it.

Have a nice day :D

Nah, he probably saw it in a movie. It sounds like the cop torture scene in "Reservoir Dogs"

I had some right-wing keyboard commando threaten to fly down to Australia just so he could break my neck in person. He did it in private message because he's a coward.

[deleted]

I had some right-wing keyboard commando threaten to fly down to Australia just so he could break my neck in person. He did it in private message because he's a coward. &#12494;( &#94;_&#94;&#12494;)

Let me fix that for you (automated comment unflipper) FAQ

This bot needs to make an exception for when it encounters the bot above it.

[deleted]

lol.

Clever.

I don't believe it's a paid shill influx, but a lot more poor quality posts being put forward. No information just paranoia and false suspicions. It seems every time something tragic happens r/conspiracy is there to twist/blame the government. There are a lot of truly sick individuals is this world and shit happens.

Exactly. I'm skeptical of the official version of events and I'm equally skeptical of conspiracy theories. I take evidence seriously and I scoff at unsupported nonsense, regardless of its origin. People posting here don't get a free pass just because they're Fighting The Man. The truth doesn't take sides.

Hey! For once, somebody that says 'skeptical' and actually means it!

Too many people think 'skeptic' means 'rejects the official story out of hand'

Yes, but when shit happens, its because THE GLOBALIST ZIONIST SOCIALISTS made it happen.

/s

Yep been here for a year + and have noticed an invasion of people trying to steer people onto a more mainstream line. It used to be a place where a person could float an idea and people, if they disagreed, would state why they disagreed in a constructive, friendly and considerate manner. Now it's all sarcastic comments and "lol, you're all dumb" type statements. They've really brought the tone of the place down from cooperative to combative. Not to mention the use of downvotes to bury opinions that are both anti mainstream and hard to refute. ( preemptive edit : I, and I think most of the subreddit don't care about reddit points we just want the best stuff to rise to the top and not be buried by close minded zealots. ) Unfortunately all we can really do is ignore them. remember a troll wants most of all to engage you in their game. If you don't engage they are lost ( unless you have a zinger or a well reasoned post that trumps them ) .

People are trying to do a similar thing with 4chan however the focus is much more trying to turn it into a "nice" place ( every joke or topic that's not politically correct gets put down to edgy teenagers. It's annoying because everyone knows /b/ is a cesspool - but at least it was funny in it's political incorrectness )

OP thanks for making this post. You're not the only one that has noticed this trend.

[deleted]

So, unsubscribe from this subreddit and spend less time worrying about us "idiotic" people.

[deleted]

...YOU'RE JUST A PAID SHILL BRO

Looking at your account, all you do is inject sarcastic one-liners. Obviously this isn't a main account. So why?

No one is prohibiting you from providing your opinion, but that's not what you're doing... at least with this account.

Obviously this isn't a main account. So why?

Probably because they think you're crazy. I don't blame them and if you can't piece that together, you might not be as good at connecting the dots as you think you are.

But idiotic people like you are what gives real consiracy theorists a bad name.

Guys like you are the ultimate Useful Idiots. You spout off these asinine, ludicrous and completely unhinged theories, and then when people point out that you're a clueless fuckwit, you demand that they leave.

No.

You leave. Get the fuck out of here, and take all your asshole friends with you. Nobody cares about your wild speculation, your fact-free paranoia, or your pathetic persecution complex. We want to talk about real conspiracy theories, based on real evidence. You want people to applaud when you masturbate in public.

Fuck off, you tin foil hat wearing loser. You aren't a conspiracy theorist, you're an unhinged, paranoia whack job, and you make people who actually care about what is really going on look stupid.

Again insults like this.

Yes, I am insulting you. That doesn't mean I'm wrong. This whole post of yours does not require rebuttal. Your post is self-rebutting. It's pure idiocy, all the way through. All it demands is for people to point and laugh.

You say you're open to other's opinions, but you really aren't. Because you'll never accept that most other people's opinions is that people like you are stupid, and embarrassing, and completely pathetic.

Oh, I know, more insults. But there really is no way to address your arguments without insults. Because your arguments are fact-free speculation that demonstrate your fundamental unwillingness to think. And there's nothing that can be said to such nonsense except "That's nonsense."

What particular nonsense theory are we talking about here? We are just talking about proper etiquette in the subreddit, if people will just troll and be disruptive/dismissive every time they see something they dont believe, what is the point of them being here? I see some theories as farfetched, I dont go out of my way to be an asshole about it.

What particular nonsense theory are we talking about here?

In this particular case, we're talking about the theory that the government is paying people to babysit /r/conspiracy and downvote/mock the tinfoil hat brigade.

[deleted]

And I'm sure there is some truth to that, but those kinds of campaigns serve a meaningful purpose - they promote the agenda and ideology of those who fund them.

In this case we're asked to accept the possibility that an unknown shadowy organization is devoting time, resources and manpower to discrediting ideas that have no traction in the mainstream and are widely seen as self-discrediting.

Redditor for twenty odd days, is unnecessarily hostile, mostly posts in this sub- I'm calling it.

I mostly post in this subreddit? I've posted in this subreddit maybe eight times, all in the last 24 hours. Post to this subreddit make up maybe 1-2% of my total posts.

And I've been a redditor for several years. I just regularly delete my accounts because of faggots like you who go digging through people's past comments to try to change the subject.

You're an idiot. I won't call you a liar for making the false claim that I mostly post to this subbreddit, since that was probably just further expression of your idiocy, and not a malicious lie.

Concentrates on irrelevant generalisation I made, calls me a faggot...

So you're calling your own one sentence post an " irrelevant generalisation?"

Tagged as "Fucking Moron."

I love it.

"Sorry man, I'm not a paid shill, but I think some of you suffer from some serious issues and like to think 1+1=3 even if everyone tells you that it's 2."

Or maybe - "Sorry man, I'm not a paid shill, but I think some of you suffer from some serious issues and like to think 1+1=2 even if everyone tells you that it's 3."

A lot of people here may be here exactly because what they hear told to them doesn´t fit with what they observe, or with what their observation compared to what they were told of previous situations leads them to predispose about those doing the telling.

There are FOUR lights! (gold star if you the reference)

You sһould know thаt SubredditDrama has written about you.

«More Hilarious Minor Drama from /r/conspiracy when OP Calls out "Paid Shills" Who are Trying to "discredit Free Thought" in the Subreddit, some Commenters Disagree», submitted 6 hours ago.

As of nоw, your comment has a score of 14 (39|25). Thе pаrent submission has a sсore of 521 (701|180).

ЅRD has no enfоrced rules against іnvading or votіng in linkеd threads, and threads linked by them have a tendency to suddenly acquire large amounts of votеs and derailing comments.

^{http://youtu.be/0mBVfM_Ylus}

http://youtu.be/s0F3LKaGN2A

When I joined reddit nearly 6 years ago, it was a site where questioning authority and not accepting official statements wasn't just the status quo but encouraged.

I've noticed this from the time I've been here. Everything was legitimate and individuality was recognized and respected. Arguments and discussions arose - now it's everything has to be fact and if you are not with the hive mind you get down voted.

[deleted]

I believe those downvotes are ironic jokes.

Reddit now is 90% committed to 'forming and shaping opinion'

Reddit is an extension of the lying whore media

Reddit works in the interests of government

Dual passport 'americans' infest reddit and work for their glorious zion. Most of all, like the parasitic trash they are, they work at destroying the US and American and anyone else with an independent brain in their skulls

Reddit is infested with lunatics who believe twirling a chicken above their heads will eradicate their sins

Reddit is overrun by those who believe sitting inside a plastic bag in an airplane will do ...... shit, I'm not crazy enough to comprehend the crap they believe

Best you can do is upvote the threads that seem worth it and leave the sabbateans to make their worthless comments which they seem to believe are 'witty'

Then dump this site, because it's crap

RT threads are one of the few public meeting places of former /conspiracy Redditors.

Notice how it was taken down today?

where do I find RT threads?

Russia Today.

What was taken down today?

Russia Today.

Or on the flipside of this...

Free speech is one of the foundations of this country and just because you don't like what someone may have to say doesn't mean they are destroying the country by saying it.

I was wondering how long it was going to take before someone started spewing the anti-semitic hate speech.

I'm just curious: how many confederate flags are on your pickup truck?

The greatest part is how he tells everyone to dump the site, then posts constantly after.

Poruss made no anti-semitic comments. He said anti-zion. Zionism is a political philosophy.

Your comment is the perfect example of what the thread is about. You misconstrue the comment and then finish it off with an insult to devolve the discussion. Please be respectful in your posting.

Your comment is a perfect example of someone denying the obvious.

He spent the entire post implying that the forum (that he frequents on a daily basis) is comprised mostly of people whose sole purpose in life is to promote the idea of a Jewish nation state. He called these people "parasitic trash." He stated we are all part of the "lying whore media." He then said that anyone that believes in the teachings of a Jewish rabbi who was proclaimed to be the Jewish Messiah in 1665 will have nothing worthwhile to say.

Perhaps this individual should refer to the rules listed to the right that mentions "No racism" "No abusive/threatening language,"or "Any posts that attack the sub, users or the mods will be removed."

Or are those rules only for the individuals that disagree with the consensus of the sub?

I'm really not sure what post you're referring to. How are you reading any of this as anti-Jewish or threatening?

Zionism is not Judaism.

Zionism is not Judaism.

This is correct.

From Wikipedia:

"Zionism is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel. Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority in their own nation, and to be liberated from antisemitic discrimination, exclusion, and persecution that had historically occurred in the diaspora."

Poruss stated that Reddit is "infested" with people that support someone having a Jewish identity and that these people are"parasitic trash."

The definition of anti-semitism is "The intense dislike for and prejudice against Jewish people."

So how is what he said NOT anti-semitism?

He only spoke of the ideology, not the people. It's no different than an anti-christian stance.

So what you are suggesting is that Poruss doesn't mind that Jews exist, they just shouldn't have an identity?

EDIT: Let's Take a look at some of Poruss' other comments:

"A suspect the only people who were remotely affected by my comment were believers in chicken-twirling..."

"The uber controlling mod must be the same guy who sits in the plastic bag on the plane. And I try to stay away from lunatics, even online."

"It's like the endless repeats of ' 6 million'. They were chanting that back before WW1. And have continued ever since...Those who twirl chickens around their heads and sit inside plastic bags are one-trick ponies. They're through. And the fake government goes down with them"

He seems to really like bringing up those two topics.

"This entire site is 'home' to shekel-grabbing paids-to-post."

"It's a badly scripted, poorly acted Z-grade movie written by lunatics who twirl chickens round their heads and sit in plastic bags."

"UK media of course is owned by the same scum who own 96% of the world's media

Here, he's referring to any one of a number of websites that claim that 96% of the world's media is owned by six Jewish companies.

"And your nose will head straight to the stuff that matters such as your gay Malaysian muslim fake president facing war crimes charges and taking his Zionist owners down with him"

"Yes, Boston and West and Sandy Hook and 9/11 --- all failures conducted by the same mob that produced Phil Specter...Laugh at all of it. Then get involved in something worthwhile. Or you'll end up as nuts as those who twirl chickens around their heads and who sit inside plastic bags"

"people around the world are going to light fires beneath these bastards and put them to the sword yet again. Then back they'll go to hiding in sewers and trying to sell buttons from trays around their necks Laugh at them. Because when life is through with them, they have nowhere to go. Just blackness. No light-tubes. No-one to welcome them. No forgiveness Which is not surprising, because they don't have souls. Therefore there's nothing in them that can be saved"

This is only part of his comment from the post "Greetings to our friends from Isreal" where he recycles the "sit inside plastic bags" and "twirl chickens" comment again, along with a long string of other, equally insulting comments.

In fact, these are just the most recent comments he's posted in the last 17 hours.

He also did a great one about how "Japs enjoy OTHER people's suffering"

So now people aren't allowed to disagree with an ideology now? Or is that only when it can be misconstrued as Judaism?

Hey, if you want to try to defend this guy as NOT being an anti-semite, go right ahead. I think the evidence is overwhelmingly clear that he's pretty much a textbook racist.

Dual passport 'americans' infest reddit and work for their glorious zion

It's obvious what that meant. "Infest"? Give me a break. The idea that Jews have no loyalty to their state is inherently racist.

Also this shit:

Reddit is infested with lunatics who believe twirling a chicken above their heads will eradicate their sins

Reddit is overrun by those who believe sitting inside a plastic bag in an airplane will do ...... shit, I'm not crazy enough to comprehend the crap they believe

Best you can do is upvote the threads that seem worth it and leave the sabbateans to make their worthless comments which they seem to believe are 'witty'

Zionism is not Judaism.

Allow me to enlighten you: http://www.nkusa.org/

What about those other comments?

-Reddit is infested with lunatics who believe twirling a chicken above their heads will eradicate their sins [Traditional Orthodox Jewish practice]

-Reddit is overrun by those who believe sitting inside a plastic bag in an airplane will do ...... shit, I'm not crazy enough to comprehend the crap they believe [Fringe ultra-Orthodox practice]

-Best you can do is upvote the threads that seem worth it and leave the sabbateans to make their worthless comments which they seem to believe are 'witty' [Sabbeteans, I think, are a certain breed of ultra-Orthodox Jews]

Enough with this "Zion" smokescreen. You can't say it once then make all the antisemetic comments you want.

You're confusing religion, another ideology, with race.

Wait... Jewish is not an ethnic identity anymore? Better call my genetics professor right away.

Yeah, it's a bit bigoted to say they're all non-loyal, chicken-waving nutjobs.

The real antisemites deny they exist though (whenever convenient).

And I would say that's it's prejudice to assume that everyone of the Jewish race adheres to the ethnicity.

Thanks for saying what must be said

r/conspiracy was the biggest reason I joined reddit over 5years ago. I have never seen the up/down vote system so obscenely manipulated as it has been here lately...

Comments that are completely pushing establishment agendas are getting upvoted to the moon while comments that question and challenge the MSM narrative are downvoted into oblivion. It is obvious manipulation in an attempt to make alternate theory look socially unacceptable.

Maybe its time to abolish the up/down votes system in r/conspiracy. That way we will not have the FALSELY upvoted comments FALSELY representing the general consensus of the REAL r/conspiracy community.

you have been invited to /r/noshill

I want to be invited.

done

May I also join, please?

please try to post new topics from /r/conspiracy to here so we can discuss like growups.

Invite please

I would love to be invited just to see how reasonable and logical the arguments for and against specific theories are.

I tend to lock on to really obvious inconsistencies when it comes to conspiracies. Take Sandy Hook. While I don't believe for a second the parents are paid actors (impossible to keep that kind of information quiet), I do find it strange that the authorities have not released a tape showing Adam Lanza approaching the school.

From what I gather, the school had multiple cameras that should have caught these images. Columbine video was released showing those two jerkoffs. Why not Sandy Hook? I'm not saying I want to see kids getting shot, just release a video showing Adam Lanza with rifle in hand approaching the school. It's not traumatic footage and it would go a long way toward killing off the conspiracy theories surrounding that story.

That is the depth of my speculation and questioning with respect to conspiracies.

Free thought means that you are willing to accept the truth of the situation whether or not it accords with your predisposed world view. If /r/conspiracy can not withstand challenges to their POV, then it simply needs to grow up.

It has nothing to do with challenges to their POV, it has to do with "lol ur all so stupid need a psychiatrist lmao" 314/55.

THAAANK YOU.... THANK YOU!!!!you sir, get it! welcome to /r/noshill you are a mod as well since i cracked up so hard reading your comment! i know exactly what you mean. FUCKING SHILLS . You're a mod, Use your powers properly.

[deleted]

Ah, yes, back to dissent = disinfo. That old standby.

Ah, yes, 'straw man = logical argument'. That old standby.

If /r/conspiracy can not withstand challenges to their POV, then it simply needs to grow up.

[deleted]

NO YOU ARE

I am.

Pretty telling that a bunch of 'free thinkers' want to cut down honest discourse.

EDIT: Ya know what? These downvotes are fascinating. You all think I am some anti-conspiracy shill. That is the furthest thing from the truth that is possible. I ACTUALLY tend to think this issue could stand some sincere scrutiny. But y'all need to do your homework better. Read some Karl Popper: evidence of a theory is not a bunch of shit that suggests something is true. If you come up with a hypothesis, you need to do your absolute utmost to FALSIFY that theory. Because A SINGLE bit of contradictory evidence destroys the theory. This subreddit asks amazing questions but then stumbles when they re-interpret their questions as the actual answers. I was tryin to make you better. But ya know what, fuck you all.

5 day old account, no personal attacks.

Is this a warning or a ban?

It should be a ban based upon your account age but most of your comments check out so its just a warning.

Thank you. I will ensure that I do not engage in anything that can be construed as a personal attack.

Much appreciated.

[deleted]

I know that. I admitted that. Is this news? You are what is wrong with the conspiracy theorist movement. You are using the exact same tactics as those you profess to oppose.

Have a great day :)

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

Awesome find. He is EXACTLY what OP is pointing out

[deleted]

It's funny because he is at +3 and complaining about downvotes. That is sad

Why are you complaining about downvotes? You never were negative so leads me to believe that you were up voting yourself to keep up. Lots of accounts? Usually why users have short simple usernames

It's not a complaint about fucking karma. I have ONE account. Jesus. The paranoia is so rampant.

So why do you care about getting downvotes? Everyone gets downvotes in almost any comment or post that gets attention. Christ, people have bots just for that. So are you really that sensitive to getting any negative feedback or is it something else?

I don't specifically care about downvotes. I have never complained about them before. I like downvotes. It just seemed like a well-used trope to justify an edit. Clearly it was a mistake. I will not be making it again.

The edit truly wasn't needed

Duly noted. I will have some chamomile.

Chai for me!

There are conspiracy theories, with evidence, motives, and well sense. But then there are crackpot bullshit that doesnt deserve to even be discussed. Calling the bullshit out doesn't make me a shill it makes me a logical person who doesn't want to be looked down on because so many in this community are bat shit insane.

So why come to a subreddit to just point out the easy fallacies. That can be done on any subreddit. Why not come to r/conspiracy and be helpful by pointing out interesting, substantiated things?

Deriding instead of contributing is part of the problem.

wow, downvoted fast!

I could spend all day going around reddit & pointing out idiots, but i do not. Why would people choose to do that?

When did this good sir KikiCVIII ever say he came here simply to point out easy fallacies? He probably doesn't - and so probably do not the other users who call out the bull shit. They come here to have interesting substantiated discussions but the bullshit tends to get in the way.

But then there are crackpot bullshit that doesnt deserve to even be discussed. Calling the bullshit out doesn't make me a shill it makes me a logical person

Start with the religious subs then. What they believe is infinitely more batshit insane than pretty much everything that is discussed here, and there is some CRAZY shit discussed here...

You do understand that "free thinking" means others are free to think and say whatever they want about your comments, correct?

YES! I concur! In fact, there are a lot of submissions on /r/conspiracy with which I disagree; however, insulting submitters and commenters is not constructive behavior.

Not everyone is here to be constructive.

Are you advocating censorship?

Absolutely not. If I believed that would benefit the subreddit, I would have mentioned it.

I just want more constructive speech in /r/conspiracy.

I hear you, brother. Maybe we need to tighten the rules and have the mods get ruthless with their deleting and banning powers. I'm sick of the juvenile BS I'm seeing here. When I first joined /r/conspiracy it was a great place to come for alternative points of view and interesting perspectives but of late it's become mostly asinine. C'mon folks, let's defend our subreddit!

Yes, let's conceal information, punish dissent and silence those that disagree with us!

Sounds bad, huh?

That said, I get what OP is saying. If someone only wants to come on here and stir up trouble and insult people, then why are they here? Answer: It's the internet. People get bored. People want to talk shit because they can. You get the same thing on video game forums from people who don't like the game, especially previous players.

I should have clarified my point about tightening the rules and dishing out the mustard to whomever breaks them. The tightening of the rules part of my comment is key. Let's makes 'em tight like your granny's sphincter just before she squirts and woe betide anyone who thinks they can flaunt them and think they can get away with it thereafter. Tight rules, tight community. Power!

Exactly, and conspiracy theorists are the easiest to troll because of how insane some of them are.

The problem with this sub isn't "shills" it's that every time something happens, someone tries to take the most irrelevant things and tie them together.

Well, I think that we can all agree, this being the internet, that we all end up reading the words of some not-so-stable individuals, and I don't just mean on /r/conspiracy. Or just assholes. Or trolls. Or people who are way too high to post coherently, sometimes.

The conspiracy theorist in me, though, wonders whether or not anyone interested in disrupting the free flow information might not just post a bunch of clearly insane gibberish in order to drive away reasonable people who might actually learn a thing or two.

Now, of course, I consider myself a reasonable person so I get to be the victim of that, and feeling that way can color my perceptions. All I know is that, from time to time, I stop going to conspiracy sites (not just /r/conspiracy) because I get tired of reading some of the really out there stuff and especially the faulty logic that people try to present as fact.

I dunno. In the end, what I know or don't know probably/surely doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. A lot of people attach way too much importance to themselves, personally, which isn't helpful.

I wanted to post the same thing, OP (and mildly did) but didn't want redundancy.

completely and utterly agree, OP. I believe half of it ARE shills, but the other half are fuckin morons who think that surfing r/wtf, r/askreddit, /animaladvice, and r/funny makes them experts on political agendas and life.

Massive influx of arrogant, ignorant pricks right now - worst combination you can get.

they stick out like sore thumbs

Well, the JIDF is invading /r/conspiracy. http://shieldofisrael.blogspot.com/2013_04_01_archive.html

[deleted]

[deleted]

Wow.

[deleted]

@JIDF How you frame your arguments is very important. If you go against reddit you're toast. Against /r/conspiracy, you're gold.

I've always taken the JIDF in /r/conspiracy thing with a grain of salt. Figured it was mostly trolls, being labeled as shills. But there it is. So... Wow.

[deleted]

Yeah well... Fuck them

[deleted]

Sounds great, I'll bring a deck of cards if you bring the hookers.

[deleted]

My deck of cards is missing the 2 of clubs...

That's the problem. There are a lot of people who come to this thread thinking that we're all talking out of our asses! Not true. We really don't just "make shit up" and call it truth. However, we DO entertain and investigate leads and possibilities and some people confuse that as if we are saying "that's what happened".

Yes really.

The JIDF publishes and announces that they plan to spam /r/conspiracy. Why is this unbelievable to you?

Why do you shy away when the word jew is mentioned? This is not a conspiracy, look at the website, it says it right there. I don't get it why can you not accept that? It just shows me that you are biased. You blurt out a single sentence and go along living your life around the borders.

I'm not saying this website is some sort of governmentally funded organisation. Wether they exist or not. But this specific instance it is jews comming together and targetting specific websites, and this is not by far the first time it has happened.

Why do you shy away when the word jew is mentioned?

a lifetime of programming via tv, films & media

free thought and blind illogical idiocy are not the same thing.

Not everyone who thinks some of you are bat shit crazy are paid shills. The fact that you think everyone that disagrees with you are paid shills kinda goes against you beliefs of free thought.

Seems that you are only for free thought if those thoughts are meeting your agenda.

If you read my submission, you would note there is a difference in the content of the comments. Free thought, whatever the position, is encourage. Insults, as stated in my original submission discourage free thinking people from discussing their views.

You need some way of categorizing the way people think about conspiracies. To my mind, if you look at the extreme ends of the spectrum, one group tends to create elaborate, far reaching and honestly completely unbelievable conspiracies that shatters the credulity of reasonable people.

The other group asks reasonable questions, analyses available data and discounts that which is impossible or highly unlikely. They then draw conclusions that are at least plausible including the idea that a conspiracy might be at play.

The first group is why the term "conspiracy theory" is looked down upon and by extension discredits the second group.

So you are opposed to people questioning the people questioning the status quo?

You can't have one without the other. If you really want discourse you are going to have people say your ideas are shit. It goes with the territory.

I am very interested in conspiracies. What I am not interested in is blindly accepting theories with absolutely no evidence. If you want a make believe subreddit go ahead and make up fanciful stories, but if you post in a place that calls for critical thinking and evidence based reason then expect someone to challenge your theories.

I am very interested in black programs, weapons development, cyber warfare, secret government agencies or military units. Instead I get a daily bombing of ridiculous made up headlines with not a shred of evidence. Then people get angry when you point out there is no evidence.

If you have an interesting theory, promote it as a theory but be honest you have no evidence. Certainly don't make statements you cannot back up in your OP. And don't downvote when someone correctly calls you out.

This wave of people comming in from the mainstream part of reddit is not doing us good as you would like to believe. Sure they make very good points, points that would make them a valuable asset here, but while making a good point they will turn around and in the same phrase trash this subreddit and everyone in it as nuts. Thats unacceptable. They feel themselvs to be better then us, thats why they use sarcasm and generalizations.

They are not helping the community they are destroying it by hatefull comments. Comments that rile up people into flame wars.

I have said it once and I will say it again. Those who are not "awake" (I know I hate this word) are living in a COMPLETELY different paradigm. I have a friend and I started to talk to him about all the shit thats going on. He never believed me, now that he is seeing Boston unfold and my previous comments to him he is beginning to wake up. Thats what we have to do. Plant seeds of the future and when that future is unfolded before them they will suddenly realize that we were correct.

Alex Jones how nutty he may be sometimes, has foretold many many things. Things that were not apparent in the time when he said them. Like homegrown terrorism, and how citizens will be targeted as terrorists. To be honest I didn't see how they were going to pull that off, but guess what?! They did pull it off.

"Reality is not only stranger than we suppose.. it's stranger than we can suppose."

• Terrence Mckenna

LOL

So people disagree with you, and then you make a new conspiracy about users being paid to purposely distort your already distorted imagination!

That's rich!

To me, the people who see a tragedy are profoundly curious and naturally want all the answers. It's okay to be scared but when you let your fear and paranoia consume you, then you see with a sort of tunnel vision. There's also the natural teen rebellion and angst which is glaringly apparent here. There's also the attention seekers. You feel like something can't possibly be going on that's bigger than you so you 'get invlolved' and jump into the circle jerk. When I saw people suggest that the man with the cowboy hat was an FX specialist for hollywood I couldn't help feel disgust. Like people are dying and all you can think of doing is pushing your half baked anti establishment message. Like I said though, in tragedy with no one to blame we tend to think of the easiest person to blame, the government. It gives people comfort to feel like they got it all figured out, when in reality we're all a bunch of chickens running around with our heads cut off.

And just to clarify, there is NO SUCH THING as mainstream media. It's what YOU CHOOSE to pay attention to. I don't watch the news because a) They don't report news, they push an agenda sought by the corporate entities which manage them. It's not conspiracy, it's capitalism and it's the way things have been since before the Revolutionary war. b)If you want actual up-to-the-date info, rather then a bunch of bumbling idiots who say the same paranoid, delusional bullshit I see on here your gunna want to go with social media.

The best thing people can do. What CNN should have done, is realize and understand this is a chaotic and tragic event and that misinformation will be flying left and right which you need to take with a grain of salt. Realize your not a part of the situation, your computer screen DOES NOT hand you all the facts nor does it even come close.

If anything you should be concerned about NRA trolls who are trying to sell sell sell by establishing an irrational and baseless fear that this or that will be banned.

If you read my submission you would note the difference between disagreement and insults.

Please, quit making me laugh. Some of you really don't belong here, and it's not those who disagree with you that don't belong. It's those who think up the most erroneous stories in there head and then cry about people calling them out for what they are, that is, fools.

Also, there is nothing more insulting than to accuse suffering people to be behind some crap conspiracy. It's also ironic how you call people out for negativity when in reality, the people who look at anything and see conspiracy are the most negative people I've seen on this board. They are filled to the brim with hate and yearn for the chance to reap vengeance on the monsters they've thought up.

So either keep crying or actually come up with a legitimate argument. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you then gtfo yourself.

I thought this sub reddit could be about discussing theories, how you came to a theory, thoughts on world events, and general paranoia or fear of TPTB about whatever you may think. I didnt think this was a forum where anything the government said was instantly wrong and discredited and that we have to agree with whatever conspiracy theory or loose connection that any one can cook up.

Nothing wrong with having a theory with some ground to stand on. But at the same time, how can you encourage people to participate if they arent allowed to not believe your theory or discuss (read: not argue or flame) the other side?

Answer every single one of these people with the same statement.

"If you are not providing new evidence or reasonable speculation that furthers the current discussion please withhold your comments."

This will cause them to devolve the argument into personal attacks. At this point you can ignore them and move on as they have proved your point that they are incapable of adding to the discussion.

I've seen countless attacks upon the contributors of /r/conspiracy recently but very little counter-argument. The best debunking done of the speculative photos has been done by level headed thinkers providing clear evidence without the need to insult the commenter.

We could make a new conspiracy oriented subreddit with better mods.

you just got what you wished for /r/noshill Private and you're been added

I can't guarantee I'll contribute much or do anything other than occasionally lurk but I promise I won't be an ass. Add me?

Well yeah, the shills and agents better just watch and listen or they will be out on their ass.

[deleted]

Maybe leave the sub open for a couple weeks then ban all shills/trolls/sheep/tards/useful idiots?

[deleted]

Not really, just a slow way to populate the sub. Agents/shills etc will gain access eventually anyway, the difference is if they say anything they WILL get banned :D

How do we go about being added?

Woohoo!

How would one go about getting an invite there? I'm sick of what /r/conspiracy is spiraling into these days.

Can I be?

wanttoknow.info and realityzone.com are a few of my favorites.

Good post, couldn't agree more.

[deleted]

GLP is a Tavistock den. Post here because it comes up in searches.

I wish I could. Every post i make here is automatically downvoted.

Most of my posts go to twitter anyway

Doesn't matter. It is still searchable.

Paid shills? Really? Cause no one would disagree unless they were payed by the government.

A conspiracy is defined as simply 2 or more people that collude in a crime.

"Conspiracy Theory" was literally a term coined during the time of the JFK Assassination investigations and the Warren Commission for the sole purpose of discrediting what were called "Assassination Theories" at that time.

It doesn't really mater if people think a 'conspiracy' is not possible - they are and history has proven that. To what extent can't really be known in every case. I think of it this way, yes, I am going to use the "Nazi" example - as the Germans did not actually know the full truth that the Nationalist Socialists actually lied to them, including the Reichstag False Flag incident until the Nuremburg Trials. At that moment it became Historical Record - even though many Germans were wary of the Nazi's and believed they were being lied to, but many were duped. Victors write history and those Empires that fall we learn about what heinous things they did to their citizens. The U.S. and other Western Nations are no different in Modern times - being deceitful, using the media as propaganda (admitted facts by intelligence agencies and whistle-blowers), false pretense for war (examples of admitted historical facts where these wars started by false flags or deceit - Vietnam, Gulf War 1, and Gulf War 2) and answering to the mighty Petro-Dollar. This is all information out in the open. So by definition, if an act to cover up crimes against humanity, like the say the Apache gunning down civilians and journalists from the leaked Manning video, not evidence of a 'conspiracy of the willing'? People colluded to keep it from the public eyes to hide behind a veil of 'national security.' I could go on and on about multiple subjects, I've practically researched them all and read other people's research.

Why should any of that be a surprise to anyone? Label it what you want you want, it is what it is. Certainly known by paid trolls the OP post was alluding to.

"We'll know our our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William Casey, CIA Director 1981

"The CIA worked very closely with them and United States supported Saddam Hussein at every level - gave him arms, gave him money, gave him political backing, the military helped him; none of this is really fully understood by the American people." - Peter Camejo

Take General Clark, for example, when in 2007 he admitted facts, on Democracy Now, about the wars the U.S. in which plans were conspired from think tanks in the Pentagon and White House far in advance to take out Iraq, Libya, Syria, and finishing off with Iran. When you have people in high places like Generals laying out information for people, it is no longer a theory.

This can only go so far before the general public realizes they are being duped. And people might ask, why, why would they be deceitful and commit crimes against the public? A means to an end why else, to protect interests, to further Imperial agendas - again, as shown through History. Humans are not perfect, but we're getting better from our dark past history - those that seek power for instance tend to follow what I think are the detrimental cultural 'memes' that lead people down paths of corruption, like narcissism or machiavellianism - and we don't live in some sort of Utopic World Peace group of nation cultures like Star Trek or whatever.

I'm a mechanical engineer and have been recording police scanners since 3 am last night.

Pick up anything noteworthy?

nothing that is obvious conspiracy, just really bad ass shit, like "i got a secret service detail" at one point fema took over the police scanners for 5 minutes with a crazy annoucement

i did sleep from 8am to 2 pm so wasn't recording then

also a lot of it is on my cell phone and garageband before i switched over to youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/robotluvhottub2

HOLY SHIT RIGHT NOW THEY ARE FIRING "DUMMY ROUNDS AND GAS INTO A BOAT" at sixT SevIn franklin st

Of course what interests me most are the happenings at Cyprus and School ST late afternoon... Anyone else? A lot of online scanners went down but mine did not ;)

What?

what is your question or what are you confused about what i wrote?

ha i hope you're not a twat

I have too. i have bpd using sunil's name and identifying him as suspect, also screen capture immeadlly after discrediting that and going with the brother, , the users who are now deleted are very, very vulger.

the fema message at like 6 am was intense

Wait - I can get paid for posting on here?!

Hear, hear. And well said.

Although it's linked in the sidebar, I have found it handy to keep The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies open in a large print text file behind my browser window so I can read it often and constantly remind myself of the varyious techniques being used. Newcomers (who are not shills) unfamiliar with this information should read it very slowly and very carefully.

It's harder for certain people to deal when they are faced with sudden, massive cognitive dissonance. In the early 90's I told an s/o before dumping him that what I despised most about him was his obsession with conspiracy theories. I remember reading in the local free paper every year the Top 25 underreported stories of the year and feeling my tenuously happy life suddenly fill with gloom and horror. I forcibly turned my head away and tried like hell to forget. But this stuff kept coming up and eventually - 10 years later - I started actively reading and learning. It was in the mid-2000's when I realized there even was a building 7 and then what happened to it. I was news obsessed after it happened and I just couldn't believe that it didn't register wiht me at the time. I really feel there is some mass hypnosis happening via media.

But it's also isolating if you start talking about it to others and no one likes to lose friends. It's worse if these people are still around you every day - the stares and whispers. I guess I'm trying to find a place where I can feel empathy for some of the newbies and their caustic comments. I used to be a bleeding heart and I still can be at times.

But in the end, I believe it's best to know the truth, or at least be on your way to knowing it, and wanting to know it. You get used to the heavy heart that comes from understanding how awful the ones running this joint really are.

I feel very soon that this stuff will go full-on mainstream and there will be some serious defections, public ones by well known talking heads in the msm. Maybe something like Network but not so crazy. (Olbermann was good.)

So you're asking to question authority without being questioned? Well I don't think you're questioning should go unquestioned. I don't simply accept your unacceptance, and there bust be an alternative to your alternative.

It's called circular logic. For reference: Religion.

I am all for questioning authority. But I am also for using logic and reason. In addition, I am for presenting a viewpoint that someone might not have considered, even if it falls on the side of authority.

If a theory is logically inconsistent or conveniently ignoring certain facts I will point that out every time.

It is what separates the lunatic fringe from the reasonable skeptics.

yes. everyone who questions your questioning is a paid shill. literally every single event is fabricated by the Illuminati.

I am loving the conspiracy in /r/conspiracy

Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma.

Emphasis mine. What /r/conspiracy routinely fails to comprehend is that it isn't a "bastion for free-thinking", if anything it's a dogmatic echo-chamber.

The dogmatic principle of /r/conspiracy is similar to the religious fundamentalists in that 'everything is a result of x'. For the religious 'x = god' for the conspiracists 'x = grand, overarching conspiracy'.

Within hours of any tragic, wide-reaching event /r/conspiracy routinely deems said event to be the result of a grand, overarching conspiracy - without fail. That's this sub's 'status quo'.

You allude to the fact that a dogmatic echo-chamber that actively silences dissent is what you want as the result of being a 'freethinker' without even the slightest hint of irony - for those of us who actually understand critical thinking and free thought this can be simultaneously hilarious and infuriating, giving us urges to post to try to correct you, and what we do we get?

Accusations of being 'paid shills', 'trolls', 'government agents', 'sheeple', etc. What we also get is users that create whiny threads simply as an attempt to gain support from like-minded individuals because that's the conspiracist's inherent problem: they can't convince anyone that isn't already convinced. Furthermore they conclude that every time someone tells them they're wrong, they must be right creating a false-reality where they can never be wrong.

TLDR: /r/conspiracy is dogma, not free thought.

I think the fallacy in your thinking is that because /r/conspiracy thinks every tragic wide reaching even = grand, overarching conspiracy doesn't mean that some of those events are NOT conspiracies.

With God, there's an impossible premise to overcome if you're not a believer. With conspiracies, not so much. We have plenty of them to refer to in this country's relatively short history. MKULTRA, Gulf of Tonkin, USS Liberty, (dare I say JFK, RFK), etc, etc.

I think the fallacy in your thinking is that because /r/conspiracy[1] thinks every tragic wide reaching even = grand, overarching conspiracy doesn't mean that some of those events are NOT conspiracies.

This is a strawman. My argument was not 'there are no conspiracies', my argument is /r/conspiracy deems everything to be a result of a conspiracy due to dogma which is the antithesis of free thought.

No your argument is the strawman.

/r/conspiracy is not one person. It is comprised of many people and contains a large collection of opinions. Not everyone in /r/conspiracy deems everything to be a result of a conspiracy. The fact that you are in /r/conspiracy arguing against conspiracies proves my point.

Nice try accusing me of using a strawman though.

/r/conspiracy is not one person. It is comprised of many people and contains a large collection of opinions.

Then why didn't you state as such in your initial reply? You're clutching at straws because you can't argue against my premise that /r/conspiracy is dogmatic and not 'free thinking'.

My initial reply pointed out that conspiracies are not only possible but that there is documented evidence that they've occurred in the past. Everything else you said is not relevant to my post and is quite clearly you "clutching at straws".

In summary, just because a lot of retards post to /r/conspiracy doesn't make every post made to /r/conspiracy retarded.

I think the fallacy in your thinking is that because /r/conspiracy thinks every tragic wide reaching even = grand, overarching conspiracy doesn't mean that some of those events are NOT conspiracies.

There is no fallacy here. Never did Puddle say that conspiracies do not exist, and whether they do or not makes no difference to the arguement that the conversations are dogmatic, and not free thought. As was pointed out, it isn't "free thought" to point out a non-mainstream way of thinking, and then not accept any opinions that differ from your own.

I think we all agree that conspiracies exist. But you don't get credit for correctly labeling conspiracies when you cry "conspiracy!" about everything and one ends up being right.

You kind of missed the bus on this debate. It happened two weeks ago. Because of that, your post is fallacious.

I didn't even realize that. I thought I got there through the front page, but I must not have. Carry on.

The problem is when people see a conspiracy in everything and draw conclusions with no evidence. Conspiracies have become almost like a religion to some people and no matter what you say, their preconceived notions and world view just seem to override logic.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for posting this. I have noticed this as well as every top comment to every submission to this subreddit is the same calling out anyone who is making speculations. There is no need for such animosity. Who knows if there are paid shills. Honestly, I would think the majority are people who can't handle the truth(whatever the truth is) or have a problem with others coming to different conclusions. Those who put others down are just putting themselves down.

There are paid shills. Check into what was found in the HBGary hack by anonymous. The company developed and sold software that could create and maintain many online identities for the purpose of infiltrating forums and controlling the debate, they're not the only ones making and selling this stuff.

The fact is that reporting news in real time is difficult to do. We witnessed the big news agencies fuck it up earlier in the week. We watched reddit and other internet sleuths fuck it up just as badly (albeit to less fanfare, because inaccurate fourth hand observation is a trivial result).

We should come to an agreement that the accuracy of news is inversely proportional to latency. We should come to an agreement that, given such a complex system, the only way to improve is with investment in scientific research and development.

We are just beginning to cope with the speed of modern human communication. The social uproar is evidence of such a gap. Economic flash-crashes are evidence of the same at smaller time scales.

I love the occasional conspiracy theory...but we mustn't dull Occam's Razor over every incident. Requisite acceptance of weakly sourced conspiracy theories are precisely the reason why real conspiracies are allowed to hide in plain sight.

Perhaps because people here take every little thing and turn it into "it must be a conspiracy because we don't have all the info/the government is reporting all of the info"? Because not one tragedy can occur without everyone jumping on it assuming it can't be as its reported?

A lot of content here is just shit, and that's a bigger problem than people being a little douchy.

Governments are systemically documented covering up details of tragic events with the intent to deceive the public. This is not new behavior for governments but thousands of years old. However, you're saying it's ridiculous to look for evidence of this behavior now... because?

[deleted]

If /r/conspiracy is completely irrational, why waste the time trying to discuss this?

People will always have different opinions than you. You could try talking to the person, or just ignore it and move on. Crying about it in another thread is just attention whoring. You dirty attention whore

Different opinions is one thing but insults as I mentioned in my submission add nothing but discouragement.

This subreddit was linked from one of the very popular ones last week (not sure which thread, could probably find it). That led a lot of new people in. Check the subscription numbers. These are the people who find the stories interesting, but automatically discount theories that have no available proof. So while I wouldn't say they are paid shills, it is true that they are not necessarily people who understand what this subreddit is for.

There is a difference between "exchange of ideas" and "free thought" and people clawing at air posting blatant ignorance for upvotes. I'm happy to discuss a logical detail of event or speculation, but things like a picture of a bomber and an immediate correlation to Osama and trying to question legitimacy that way is....ignorant. Or police state claims when people are simply advised to stay indoors. It seems that a lot of times here people will see A or B and then jump to the letter Y with no thought at all instead of trying to find an intelligent thought process

Or police state claims when people are simply advised to stay indoors.

Did anyone try challenging this? I wonder what would have happened if you took your dog out for a walk past the swat teams when they were searching house to house. I think it would have gone from "your being advised" to "your being ordered" to stay inside.

Yes. I know that not everyone in Watertown was inside their homes for all of yesterday. I have friends that were outside for various reasons. I also think there is a difference between - and again, your logic comes into play here, which is lost on some it seems - between being either within very close proximity to say, the boat or suspect for instance, or a swat team doing searches, and being 2 blocks away and needing to take the dog out to take a piss.

If you live next door to the boat, or the house next to you is being swept and you decide to waltz out your front door, you are probably going to be told to not move/get down/etc because they are looking for someone and you are in close proximity. The same with living next door to boat guy and deciding to go outside when there are weapons trained on people in the area.

If you were 2 blocks away and went outside and a cop saw you, I'm sure he'd recommend you go inside, but you aren't going to be arrested on sight. People in town were getting updates from police and asking them questions.

I get not interfering with a police investigation which is illegal and will get you arrested. It just seems odd that the governor told Boston residents to stay in place and everyone, or at least most, complied. Seems rather excessive to my mind. But then I'm the guy that would go out anyway just to see what would happen.

I'm from the city so I take this closer to the heart than most. Boston is a small city. I would have been watching the marathon had I not been at Logan - but the thoughts of myself and pretty much everyone I talked to during this week were "holy shit, that's right down the road" or "I walk that street everyday" or "They're shooting in front of a bar I love". I know for a fact that all of my friends complied because they had no interest in being outside. It is very easy to get around and in the early hours of what was going on it was very possible for these guys to be in a completely different section of town in a matter of minutes, as you saw going from Copley to MIT to Watertown. I would have absolutely been sticking my head out the door at a reasonable distance but I have no interest in stray bullets or being mistaken for a suspect if I was in close proximity. Most businesses shut down so people didn't really have a reason to go out with the T being closed as well.

Yeah I get self preservation but from a probability standpoint you likely never would have been in that much danger from the suspect.

I think back to the DC shootings when Malvo and company were indiscriminately sniping people all over the area. How long did that go on? Weeks if I recall correctly. The authorities certainly didn't close down DC or suggest that people not go to work. People just went about their business and hoped they wouldn't be the next victim. I have a sister who lived about a quarter mile from one the shootings. Yes they were a little freaked but her and her family still went about their business.

IDK, this was a strange way to go about apprehending this guy. I can't think of another case where an entire city was closed down for want of capturing one dangerous suspect.

If you think about the power of this one individual who had already been widely identified and was on the run, against an entire city, it seems that he wasn't that much of an overall threat. IMO the military style door to door search was reminiscent of Iraq or Afghanistan and is a disturbing portend of things to come.

Well spoken.

The line of thought some people have been taking here recently is that of "everything bad that happens is part of The Big Conspiracy"

People are spreading ideas, yes, I get that, and I think that´s a good thing. But a noticeable amount of people have been making assertions, judgements, that have no base or solid reasoning behind them. Ideas that if true, would require a level of complexity in their execution that is, to many people, unfathomable.

I think /r/conspiracy is hurting itself by jumping to incredible conclusions. I saw somebody yesterday contending that none of the Boston manhunt was actually happening; no real people being chased, no real shootouts happening, no real bombs going off.

That to me looks like narrow minded thinking. And your request for people who don´t accept the general reasoning of /r/conspiracy to go somewhere else looks like incredibly narrow minded thinking.

I believe that it is a good thing in the search for truth and knowledge to criticise yourself, and not accept the first thing you think, or the first thing somebody tells you to think, whether that is from a news source or a discussion forum.

So I think what you´re advocating is a curtailment of free discussion and free thought. Nevermind how some of the more extravagant claims are hurting this subreddit and alienating potential readers.

Why are you people so convinced that folks like me are "paid shills"? I mean, you all enjoy the endless speculation and fact-finding and the like, right? Trying to prove your side of the story? So do I. That's the only reason I'm here.

The "shill" thing is easily the most overplayed and inaccurate accusation you guys throw out. Any time somebody disagrees, it's somehow immediately apparent that they're being paid by the government, because the government really fucking cares about conspiracy forums, apparently. Seriously, if I could make money doing this shit, I would, but I can't. I'm unemployed, 27, living at home, and bored out of my mind. I find this sub distracting from that stark and depressing reality. I haven't been banned, so you'll just have to deal with it.

It's a fact that there are paid shills on Reddit. This is not something that's just a theory. There is a financial incentive for corporate PR departments to sway pulic opinion, and there is an incentive for political parties to sway opinion as well.

Right, but the idea that everyone who disagrees with you guys in particular is a shill is tiresome.

I'm new to reddit so forgive me if I don't know the lingo. I saw an article in the Canadian free press in Feb. that stood Obama is hiring "cyber warriors" to troll the internet to spred disinformation. That probably what's going on here.

might mean that we hit upon something, or we pushed a threshold somewhere, keep on keepin on

People are hypersensitive when fearful, if you mess with the thought process that is their "mental security blanket" they lash out to protect the illusion.

TL;DR: This is r/conspiracy: We are here to piece together circumstantial evidence that jumps to the conclusion that everything the government does and says is part of the plan to collapse the country.

We demand lock-step unanimous agreement. Dissent will not be tolerated.

Providing dissenting opinions IS encouraging. Providing sarcastic / passive-aggressive comments adds nothing to the conversation.

I was referring to dissenting opinion of the generally agreed-upon opinion in this sub.

Answer to them by asking if they consider their position so weak that it couldn't survive a little scrutiny.

i dont come to r/conspiracy to see what is parroted in r/politics.... i come here to check out what "crazy" things people are saying because i find it interesting. If r/conspiracy lost it's charm it would be a great loss for reddit. The healthy questioning of authority, the unhealthy questioning of authority, is what makes america so great.

I in no way agree with the majority of what is said here, but i still come here to lurk (and some times comment) because i find it fascinating. I don't go to r/christianity and rain on their parade... this is a religion to some people, to put them down is dispicable, especially if they're hurting no one.

I feel like that's the type of thing that comes along with talking about conspiracies. It's a very touchy subject, for obvious reasons. I came here a few days ago initially to see what people had figured out or were talking about because I myself was becoming skeptical of the things I was seeing on the news and on social media. But, I can honestly say it wasn't long before I wanted looked elsewhere. All I can see is a lot of misinformation and plenty of ego to go around which is a bad mix for any kind of discussion about these types of events, and I mean that on both sides of the arguments. It's incredibly easy to make a conspiracy out of something and I think that may be the problem. Questioning things is fine, but calling someone a sheeple because their "eyes aren't open to the truth" or that "ignorance is bliss" is just immaturity and internet childishness in its prime.

Oh that I have only one upvote to give. Here here. I've had certain "official narrative" doubts that I've made known that have gotten so downvoted to hell that it's not even funny. A pity really.

I made a comment in a post that went to the front page the other day. I went from +12 comment karma to -12 in about an hour. There's a coordinated effort to control the narrative and downvote anyone who disagrees.

And realize it is not a real person but a program. It is not organic. It is merely an attempt to hide some point, to bury the comment.

You know, for a member of our group that professes having an open mind and encourages asking questions, you don't sound all that open minded. Why is it a problem for us to ask questions to get at the TRUTH, to figure out what's REALLY going on? How do you know they're paid shills anyway? And how do we know YOU'RE not?

Providing information and opinions is encouraged, but insults and personal attacks provide nothing but discouragement.

To be fair, he attacked and insulted their opinions.

Hey man, I just wanted to say it was really nice to see you hold up to your principles (I'm projecting here but free speech seems to be important to the regulars in this sub) and not suggest heavy modding as a solution. Well done.

This is from KarmaBomber23:

"What I meant is that you focused entirely on the threat, spun it into wild and crazy paranoid fantasy, and in doing so pretty much demonstrated that you have no grip on reality.

Basically what I'm trying to tell you is that in complaining about this guy's insulting comment, you have pretty effectively demonstrated the personality traits that inspired the comment.

TL;DR: After reading a few of your comments, I kinda want to tie you to a chair, throw a bucket of cold water in your face, and slap you silly until you come back to reality.

And no, I was never in the military"

Thanks for this post, onward my fellow friend!

If you're not a paid shill and you're going around /r/conspiracy calling people lunatics for questioning official statements. Stop wasting everyone's time and go to another subreddit.

This is a terrible attitude and absolutely NOT what /r/conspiracy was back when it was started.

If people come up with a conspiracy theory, they should be expected to defend it with evidence. They should expect this evidence to be questioned by others.

This is /r/conspiracy, not /r/fantasy.

The reason why conspiracy theories are looked down on by mainstream society is because there's a lunatic fringe within it who make the rest of us look insane. This is the rod which they use to beat us with. The only way to have any sort of credibility is to present your point balls out with your evidence and allow it to tell its own story.

The reason that 9/11 conspiracy theories are in the mainstream is because people took the time to present compelling evidence that the official story was not the way it went down. People responded to this and made their own judgements.

Questioning official statements is perfectly rational and fine but there's too many things like "the Jews did (insert event)", the Monsanto Protection Act bunch of crap, and "aliens invaded my cellar" that are heavily upvoted and it makes us look ridiculous and allows the powerbrokers to group us all in together and readily dismiss anything out of hand.

The only way to fight the system is to not become part of it. Allowing badly researched theories with no evidence supporting it to become part of the fabric that "everybody knows" in /r/conspiracy is the EXACT role in the system that they designed for you. Don't fall into it, let evidence do the talking.

However, today there is a contingent of paid shills, jerks, or both who en masse discourage any theories that question the authorities.

All the people who DO question events in the news are paid shills, jerks or both who en masse are planting seeds of doubt to destroy normal sane life.

Not upheave the existing authority (set us sheeples 'free') - but, to create confusion and chaos for the purposes of harming us.

You don't feel right in being a 'sheeple', because you choose to, which is fine. But, you hate people like me so much, that you want me to feel fear and terror about my very normal and sane life. So, you attempt to poison my thinking.

I think there is an organized attempt to just cause havoc and chaos. It's human nature to destroy and harm others,.. just because.

I totally agree that the war on Iraq was unwarranted. However, I do not think events like 9/11, Boston bombing, etc. were done by our own government to restrict, control and harm us. Nonetheless, forums like /r/conspiracy are like a soapbox, where malcontents do not like anything associated with normal human living - and take events of aggression/hate and claim that the entity which essentially establishes and allows me to live a normal human life, is the cause of it.

The government isn't responsible to make sure I eat 3 healthy meals a day, get fresh air and enjoy life - I am. And, I do.

And, the government isn't responsible for when some maniac blows him/herself up in front of me - they are (the maniac). For such a thing to happen, the government makes mistakes in preventing it (at times), but they are not intended nor desired.

So, my normal sane life, becomes chaotic when one and/or two things occurs;

1) some random maniac decides to harm me in an act of terror (again, 9/11, etc.)

2) some paid shill, jerk or both en masse plants seeds of doubt into this freshly upturned event (again, 9/11, etc.)

/r/conspiracy and others alike KNOW that even if every terrorist organized a world wide event to harm innocent people, that it would STILL not bring suffering, confusion and chaos to everyone,... so, the organized havoc and chaos makers take to such forums (again, soapboxes) and start making claims it was all from our own government.

/r/conspiracy is the tip of a large iceberg - where OPs pretend they are 'looking out' for us normal sane people. You want us to feel fear, horror and terror, by attempting to poison our thinking.

You are not looking to free us, enlighten us or educate us. You are looking to flat out harm us.

You are angry because of whatever personal reasons and are taking it out on us, by attempting to create a fervor. You refuse to accept any facts and proof, because they would deter you from planting that seed of doubt and seizing the opportunity to spread your own personal suffering and self loathing.

It makes perfect sense really. You can not be a happy person, so, you spread your own misery by tainting those who do indeed feel safe and OK with their own lives. They won't suffer like you do (again, because of whatever personal reasons make you feel awful), so, you attack 'the establishment' to create suffering and fear, on the same level you suffer; the mind.

And, there are many like you. And, you are organized, via these soapboxes.

So, I am here to call out the call outs. You are not calling out events of terror, to point out they were done by our own government. You are using events of terror to spread doubt, fear and personal mental suffering - much like how you yourself are feeling.

THAT is the biggest conspiracy of all; a hive mind of miserable people who are trying very very hard to spread their suffering. Possibly in hope of alleviating their own?? I don't know. I don't care.

But, know this, you alone control your feelings. You do not control the events that trigger your feelings (9/11 & /r/conspiracy's organized attempts to spread fear, self doubt and terror), but you control what you feel from these event. And, there are quite a few of use that won't let terror events and malcontents make us feel what we do not want to feel.

new to this sub, but well said.

The findbostonbombers reddit was the subreddit that was full of pitchforking, lynchmobbing witch-hunt racist assholes. They were responsible for countless statements of offense and spreading misinformation every 10 seconds about the event. This one, this subreddit is exactly what it should be, people wondering, speculating and asking questions. I would remind people however it really should be about 'asking questions' because the truth is never so convenient as 'they were muslim terrorists--game over.' Ask questions.

Wow. A conspiracy within r/conspiracy.

*insert Inception quote"

The sign of a smart child is when they ask questions...the dumb ones just take the word of others...known fact.

I blame the mods.

I agree! Today there is a contingent that specializes in attacking, demeaning and ridiculing those who voice their conspiracy ideas in this Subreddit. What the fuck are these shills doing here, start your own Subreddit or go to /r/politics if you have to attack others here. It is perfectly ok to take issue, but to ridicule and attack, well... Fuck you.

130,216 readers

That's the reason this subreddit is horseshit now.

When it was 10,000 readers, the number of useless mouth-breathing idiots was much, much lower. And idiots want nothing if not to be heard.

Reading some other posts on other subreddits, /r/conspiracy is being linked in addition to the insults of anyone questioning authority, mass media, or commenting on the sick nature of cheering for another human's death and another's capture claiming guilt before trial. So for events like this, I foresee this subreddit getting bombarded with "haters" (for lack of a better term at the moment I write this).

We need more free thinkers. Keep discrediting and don't believe the media lies...just like everyone else.

i agree i got censored on this subreddit! if i can't post conspiracies here, where can i post them???

/r/agorism

al gore made darpa invent google just for you, inerwebs is just like psa drug commercials, first you give it away, then see who comes back for more....or maybe its more like good ol' al einstein....hey al, they say your really smart....well ya kinda....hey I bet you couldn't invent a nuke could you....cause like your not that smart....I bet if you stuffed me in a room with funding I could.....hahahaaaaa....pure genius.....who was smarter, einstein....or the people that manipulated his ass into making the bomb with oppenheimer....did you ever think this place was yours? for you, by you?....freedom, first you give it away, then you see who comes back for more, then you slowly get them hooked and they think they are free....you are born unto this world a slave, trapped in an illusion dictated by every mind but your own. we are not ourselves when reality is an illusion. living in each others lies, ashes ahses we all fall down.

There's always the option of a new subreddit. /r/christianity is now sadly and largely populated by atheists who just mock the commenters, and /r/atheism is a pool of hate, so there are subreddits to avoid and funnel out the trashtalk. So, perhaps a new subreddit?

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My tip is just to ignore them and with that here's my top ten shill lines for fun:

10: Do you have any sources for that? (misses links in post)

9: You believe in X so you're weird/crazy/insane

8: You're only hurting your movement

7: That's been discredited (with no explanation as to why)

6: That's not a reputable enough source / not mainstream enough

5: That source is too main stream

4: If it's the truth then why doesn't everyone believe it

3: Stop being an anti-Semite / stop hating jews

2: herp derp tin foil hate hat herp derp

1: You've lost all credibility due to <insert minor grammar error>

I know I'm late jumping in this thread, but I'm glad this front paged. In my opinion, the theories I've seen here can be crazy. But, that's ok. It's a conspiracy subreddit. I loved it here because I was raised to think critically. In my opinion, asking questions and postulating anything but the official story, which has proven to be completely wrong before is not even outlandish, but the media has gotten us to the point where even doubting their makes you sound like a back-woods, tin-foil hat wearing lunatic.

the masses are blind, and once you make points about their authorities and control structures their ethnocentrism comes out to defend the system blindly holding them back.

we are being trained to not speak up not question authority, idk if you are in school or not or college, but I have noticed when ever a teacher or professor ask a question the kids wont answer no one speaks up, its like we all are being held back. I try to speak up in class and answer questions I know, but there are times also where i want to speak but for some reason just do not. Think about what your gunna say, you say it, with tone or power, then live with the consequences, you pick what to say from your lexicon and the discourse and habitus we are surrounded by

people feel like they are not allowed to speak out or its the norm to be quiet and just go w. the flow .. where is that flow going?

this subreddit is for discussion. we are all discussing theories. the theory of 1 man may not always line up with the theories of another man. if people are against the status quo, so be it. use it to further the discussion.

i have seen some users get defensive and accusatory but that's not what we should be worrying about. there are some sinister things going on and discussion on those topics is warranted, unless it doesnt forward the discussion.

simply put, ignore the ignorance of those who rally against discussion and you wont be bothered.

i came to this subreddit not too long ago because there was good discussion, even sometimes on hard to digest topics and opinions. it now seems we are getting way too defensive over people calling us "paranoid" or whatever else. i get called worse by better. seriously, just brush it off and keep it moving.

Two words: Corporate Shill

Information this day and age is akin to looking for a real conversation on Chat Roulette - you have to wade through all the dicks to find a friend.

It's a double sided coin. You can say your thoughts, but people also have the right to disagree. That is part of freedom is it not? Do you want this to be a circlejerk or do you want this to be a healthy forum where ideas are discussed and everybody, not just the people with the same opinion, gets to weigh in? It sounds like you want this to be a simple circlejerk where people who may disagree with what you are saying shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinion. People should be able to discuss their theories in a mature manner.

Expressing a dissenting opinion is different from "You're a fucking lunatic!"

It goes both ways. People who disagree with the conspiracies on this sub are belittled and verbally insulted just as much. Probably more so because they are in minority.

I've been thinking similar things for a while now. I love reading the stuff on here and I find it interesting, but it's frustrating when all I read are insults to people who offer up unpopular theories. They're not accepted...That's why they are theories. If you want to argue, at least throw up some reasons why you disagree and facts and encourage everyone to post sources with their information.

This "You're an idiot" and "I can't believe you believe this bull" and the flying of insults and name-calling isn't productive at all. Whenever I see this I always assume it's some 12 year old who is too lazy to look up anything intelligent to say, so they simply throw out insults.

I've honestly considered quite a few times unsubscribing because of this, but I enjoy reading all of the other theories about historical events. I am conflicted.

I don't belive people want to research anything for themself anymore that is the problem everyone of the shills as you call them are not paid in this subreddit they are just accepting what the tv tells them I won't do that anymore.

Problem we have here is that if it don't happen in there backyard or front or in somewhay disrpts there daily routine it is not real in there minds come on we live in a technolgy age of information in everything we use for daily life

From refridgerators that have tvs and cars that have satalite uplinks to monitor in case you have a crash it may not seam like it but it distances you from the reaity that control is the goals of government it has always been and always will be

I have given up trying to convince people anymore belive what you are told ignore those of us that question everything I understand and would hate to fracture your controled life

This disturbs me too. A bunch of naysayers, downvoting anyone that questions.

r/conspiracy has become the defacto go to spot on the net for this type of content, making it easy to access and interact. every other site is commercialized to death like abovetop, infowars, Icke forums etc.

THAT seems why. The front for the infowar in a sense. People on r/conspiracy are more suspicious of government entities than posters on r/anarchism... or maybe I should have wrote that in past tense. This reddit is hurting due to shills and bots.

Bravo man! I have been feeling the exact same thing, I feel like ever since April fools day when there were jovial exchanges between sub-reddits; there seems to be a huge influx of people that are specifically on here just to down vote and criticize others who are doing some damn fine critical thinking. It seems like /r/conspiracy has been compromised to an extent. Especially with the creation of conspiritard whose entire purpose is to discredit and make fun of people that spend time doing alternative research. The same type of research that acts like CISPA are made to essentially destroy the true mass communication that takes place around the internet at large.

I love to irresponsibly speculate just as much as the next guy, and I have seen these posters and wondered, why the hell would you come and look at the r/conspiracy subreddit if you aren't atleast willing to have an intelligent logical discussion about it. There are several ways to disprove a theory with out going ad Hominem on them.

I actually just joined Reddit. I came here because my brother is an avid Redditor and ran upstairs to tell my mother and I about the Tsarnaev brothers shooting the MIT security guy before any mass media sources in our area had reported it. I became curious about alternative explanations to the Boston Marathon so I signed up and have been lurking here a bit. However, isn't it possible that the free thinking and discussion is disintegrating because of increasingly idiotic posts? I mean some of the top posts boast "evidence" which are in reality just blurry pictures, with captions that contradict themselves. I was hoping for intellectual conversations & theories .. I guess I will just have to dig deeper on this subreddit. I can see there ARE many intelligent people here.

Reddit is under covert attack by the media companies who are printing all these stories about the asshole "reddit" social community since The Apology. So the type of people who read mainstream rags are running over here to avenge a few miscellaneous posters and besides we're Commies too. Capiche?

I don't believe in conspiracies. Yeah, right.

downvote the motherfuckers!!!!

Downvoting is what has destroyed the conspiracy section. Just like in real life, you can get enough shills to cover the truth. It's fucked up but it's true. There should be a ban against that here. There should be no downvoting just because it hurts your feelings or it goes against your views.

If something here goes against your views, fucking FIGHT it with your sources and your intelligence. Not with internet reputation. Too many men and women have staked their actual lives on fighting government tyranny for anyone on this site to worry about their digital one.

Thanks for being the WhistleBlower on this topic. I have seen evidence of this as well. Kudos for thinking of it first and getting all this karma.

Self post != karma.

haha 10-4 that!

You shouldn't be afraid until they start agreeing with your narratives, because that's when the people are completely powerless to stop them.

Take comfort in knowing that their involvement in this may one day come to light. When people get paid, there is an audit trail, and as we saw from Stratfor, sometimes that information becomes public.

If things really went south, I would hate to be someone that helped the wrong team.

When people get paid, there is an audit trail, and as we saw from Stratfor, sometimes that information becomes public.

And yet there are some people in this sub that take everything Alex Jones says as if its the word of god.

Funny, that.

Funny as a crutch, man.

[deleted]

Thanks for identifying yourself.

Your lack of sarcasm comprehension is fucking astounding

Why was this down voted?

Because it is something the paid posters don't like to consider -- that not only will they one day be exposed but that their real names might be linked to their unethical activities. And given the current political climate, people may not be too forgiving.

So lest it give Anonymous some ideas, it is better to downvote and bury.

[deleted]

The image I get is one of pitchforks and torches.

[deleted]

Exactly.

Because it's stupid

The problem with the disinformation is this: they come in and do their immediate damage and then melt away. It doesn't matter if "conspiracy theorists" end up being right in the history books, politics are being manipulated by untruths today. Many conspiracy theories have been proven true by declassified documents, but this does not convince your average voter. The government and corporations knows they can get away with manipulating public opinion with impunity. The same dopes will keep getting fooled over and over again. I am sick and tired of your average person automatically accepting the official story by default when it's provably false time and time again.

[deleted]

Burried. If you don't even put forth even a single legitimate point to address you're just a troll.

Where did /u/Thinks_Like_A_Man put forth a single legitimate point?

He just asserted that the government did it in a roundabout way.

I don't think that is happening. I see people waking up now, first after Sandy Hook, now after this Boston debacle.

By waking up, you mean ignoring plain facts right?

Got it.

Seek professional help

The real question is why the lack of meaningful moderation in this sub? I went to r/christianity and repeatedly called them stupid for their beliefs - banned. R/atheism - banned. Same goes for anywhere else.

If someone is doing the exact same thing you used to do, then where is your right to complain?

I don't like the idea of moderation, it just turns a place into a group of people circlejerking over something different. Ie, /r/atheism is a notorious circlejerk.

I think the answer is new subreddits. When a subreddit is overrun and turns to shit, similar but smaller subreddits sometimes pop up.

Base moderation is important, but call me a romantic, because I like the idea of someone coming here to disrupt only to have their opinions changed.

Once in a while it's fine, but I think there are literally more people here to mock conspiracy theorists than there are actual people who are open to the idea of conspiracy theories.

/r/atheism was turned into a circlejerk by trolls shitposting so they could show everyone how much of a circlejerk /r/atheism was

[deleted]

Because being skeptical of the baseless conspiracy theories makes us trolls

Riiiiiiight

No, trolling this sub because it doesn't share your worldview makes you a troll.

Yuck - [Request] moar tentacles.

Im doing my best to report the pro-conspiracy trolls as fast as I can.

we dont fuck around... /r/noshill

/r/noshill

Invite only

I've been here 4 years and agree that it has sadly changed. There are mobs of paid shills parroting the official story. I'm on the lookout for a replacement for r/conspiracy.

If you're not interested in conspiracies, why are you here? I don't go to r/knitting and say "knitting is stupid, what a way to waste your life, etc."

That would be hilarious though. "Mohair? You believe in that shit? Wake up Sheeple!"

Adapt....

Ill fucking say it. This Board is flooded with COINTELPRO. The only way to beat it is to downvote the batards.

No one in this thread is important enough for some government agency to give a shit about.

It's not just here. I've seen articles on several newspaper websites today, calling Reddit/4Chan speculation over the Boston Bombings internet vigilanteisim. So ar I've seen it on three sites, Canadian, UK & American, and it continues here with shills downvoting anyone who questions the official story.

Yeah these calls of internet vigilanteism bothered the crap out of me. We're a huge site with a metric assload of users - people are going to have opinions and speculations. That's natural. Few people actually went overboard claiming, for example, that they knew for certain who the bombers were in those people who were id'd as potential suspects. Most of us knew that it was just speculation. Yet I've seen so much talk today on how reddit/4chan destroyed the lives of these people who were not the bombers. I fail to see the connection. The only destroying of their lives that was done was by official media sources who were stupid enough to assume we actually knew what we were talking about when ever we knew that we didn't know the answers and then plaster innocent peoples pictures all over everything.

It just seems so prominent today because TPTB know that /r/conspiracy is going to be particularly busy given recent events, so they've gotta step up their game for a couple days to make it look like even the conspiracy loons are on board.

All the temporary visitors will see a bunch of "conspiracy theorists" that support the government's recent actions, and they'll think, "Oh, well if even the crazies are sold, then there must not be any actual conspiracy."

I've notice this too, before it was only a handful, but lately they've been coming out of the woodwork. Shame, Reddit is slowing becoming the next Digg.

The fact people are linking a punisher logo to Craft to .gov to false flag to NWO is why this place sucks.

What to do about it? honestly don't know. Until a reliable alternative to reddit is found, I think the best solution is to continue shining the light on the cockroaches. If you're not a paid shill and you're going around /r/conspiracy[4] calling people lunatics for questioning official statements. Stop wasting everyone's time and go to another subreddit.

Since the world is a cesspool of corruption of those seeking control with power. You just have to have the resolve that when wading through shit. Your going to get a taste of it with each step.

Just spit the shit back at them.

Maybe its not paid shills and its just people who like to get a quick karma boost. There are plenty of karma gimmies on reddit, and calling a 'free thinker' a nut is one of them. Its easier to point and laugh than it is to think.

Really? who gives a fuck about karma?

this subreddit is amateur hour yall aint conspiracy theorists shills ye whole lot! only im right always

Dude is right.

There are guys here that post only contrarian comments. They are biased from the get go and come here to trash the place. I don't think they are shills, I think /r/conspiracy has reached the frontpage too many times and is being flooded by the mainstream hivemind.

Its fucked up but I'm going to say it. The way the subreddit has been for the last days has really discouraged me from posting my views. And that is EXACTLY what they want. Wether this is a personal or impersonal phenomena. This discouragement for questioning the official story is bad.

This is peer pressure at its best.

Because when you try to call bullshit on something fresh like the Boston Bombings people are going to tell you to fuck off. The wounds are still open.

[deleted]

[deleted]

im down baby! lets get this bitch rollin should i set up a paypal account? any benefits? pension plan?

I simply speak my mind. As long as you provide a logical frame work and ignore the negativity you can overcome them. Just don't harp on it. People who are afraid of free thinkers only are because of their own insecurities.

Stay on topic and keep talking, be civil.

God dammit this is sad how insular a supposed "free thought" community can be. People dont argue with you because you are questioning the official story and this enrages their sheeple instincts. They argue with you because they disagree with you.

Free speech doesnt mean a hugbox. You have the right to post stupid ideas and people have the right to disagree with them. This is the one thing I hate about the modern Alex Jones conspiritainment crowd, they care more about being part of some special enlightened group than finding the truth.

"Why would someone who thinks conspiracy theories are crazy go to /r/conspiracy in the first place. I don't go to /r/hinduism to tell them that reincarnation is stupid." You see? Its like a religion now, questioning someones pet theory or calling it out for being stupid is like doing the same to the core tenant of a religion.

If you want to find the truth you need a free exchange of ideas, but when have the mindset that anyone who disagrees with you is a secret government agent contracted to give the clever illusion that people disagree with you on the internet, you arent going to get very far because you have completely closed yourself off to any negative feedback. This is known as confirmation bias.

And I was there for the Boston threads. People werent saying "How dare you question our lord and savior Obama when ye are but a lowely prole." They were pointing out that we didnt know anything, all we had were newsreports that kept changing and a few shaking cell phone camera videos. Yet despite this complete blackout of information people were already forming elaborate theories about what happened and presenting them as unquestionable dogma that you must be a shill to even dream of doubting.

And yes, some people were insulting, this is the internet enjoy your stay.

Oh my god I hope your comment doesn't get buried. This. Yes.

With the Boston bombing incident, I'm not saying don't question... But there IS such a thing as too soon. Planned by the government or whatever else you believe or not... People were still hurt. I had family that was hurt. (None dead, thank goodness.) So that may have something to do with it. If you all have Boston conspiracy theories cool... But let the dust settle. For some of us, it's really too soon.

The problem is that the hivemind of this sub seemed to immediately jump on the bombings as a false flag before there was any evidence at all.

If, at the end of the day, someone examines all the facts and personally concludes that Obama did it, fine. I accept that people will draw completely different conclusions from the same set of facts. I may argue with you to try to show you my side of the story, or I might just laugh at you since this is the internet and I have nothing better to do at the time.

Too many people seem to want it to be a conspiracy, ignoring the fact that this world is chaotic

Social Media in Strategic Communications. DARPA Project you should look up.

A reliable alternative to reddit? There are plenty of those. How about godlikeproductions.com? If you want to bask in the revelry of your fellow conspiratards, then you need look no further.

I think one problem is that because something so big has occurred, people know this subreddit will have a lot of activity going. they know they will disagree with anything the regulars have to say, and they will put down any and everything that is said, even if it's just a simple opinion. I've been a victim of this a few times this week.

I myself have let some people know why I'm disappointed with this reddit, calling them out on their bullshit or stupid comments.

But this certain breed of people come here with only one interest: disparaging our thoughts and acting as if they are all experts, while simultaneously claiming we are doing just that.

The zombies are out numbering us ... Im afraid to even think of where were gonna be 5 yrs from now . Whatever is going on is pickin up serious momentum .

I get put off by all the people crying out "SHILL!!", but its true that a lot of people in this sub as of late just don't belong here, for one reason or an other. I don't think we should find a new sub, I still love this place. I think we just need to be more open with our new friends about how we don't want to hear their shit and how they should gtfo.

A conspiracy within /r/conspiracy? I fucking love it. Have an up vote!

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1d1vqn/the_boston_conspiracy_goes_deeper_than_we_think/

this is what happens when scrub nubs try actual dialogue with trolls. Threaten them with death and post-mortem sex

I totally agree. I read /r/conspiracy because I'm interested in conspiracies. Why would someone who believes the mainstream story come to this subreddit and call people names if they weren't being paid to do it?

Calling people names is bad form, but I have no problem trolling this sub and telling you people you're wrong, and nobody is giving me a cent. Cue claims that I'm a reptilian Iluminatus who is being paid to say this

you sir have access to /r/noshill pass the info around.

It is designed to still your resistance. The purpose is subjugation.

Challengers of the mainstream opinion has left a trail of steadily observable pattern of an influence that left evidence of itself throughout the ages. They have been called, Terrorists, Jihad, NEOCON, GOP, Tea Party, Dirty Hippies, PINKO COMMIES, LIBERALS, ILLEGAL ALIENS TAKING OUR JOBS, Super Secret Super CIA Super cover up, ~Whoever is the current President of the U.S.A.~, Shadow Government, Mafia, conspiratards, sheeple, mentally ill (Paranoia, Schizophrenia, Paranoid Schizophrenia etc), Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten, Heretic! Witch! and on and on. There's no shortage of big labels to go with. There are ALL red herrings. Again, it is designed to still your resistance. The purpose is subjugation. The perpetrators (most like yet another big label) may not even be aware of what they are doing.

Here is the blog of a witness of many things. It contain many texts that, as a whole, touch exactly everything OP's post alludes to. Might be a bit of a shameful plug (I have no connection neither relation to the author whatsoever) but start reading, my friends. Im linking to the one page that I believe fits this thread's narrative the best.

http://unduecoercion.blogspot.ca/2013/04/false-flags-police-foreknowledge-and.html

Seek professional help

Why do you say that?. I don't suppose you would kindly tell exactly what I need help with?

Paranoia

ah. Why would I want to get rid of that? Are you out to steal my precious bodily fluids too?

I feel the same about anyone in general. Check out all the down votes I got in the past few days. I am going for a record. I also learned that Reddit is just a popular place to shape societies thoughts. Government agents can just sit and plug away downvotes at anything they dont want to be seen. Still better than disclose.tv which is just powerfreak mod clique and their kiss asses.

Yep, makes my stomach turn each time I view "all" subreddits, the days I could find comfort in skeptical and intellectual thinking on this site are mostly over, I only have my few subreddits left, conspiracy being the final stand.

It is time to find another forum.

dont give up yet. /r/noshill made today. post stuff from /r/con and we can talk like growups about it

Well, by extension, we know something else important: the moderators are not our allies. If they were, they would put an end to the problems here with trolls and shills. It would not be difficult at all.

It doesn't take much to buy them off. I knew a guy who was disrupting a forum for $200 a month -- and he posted things he personally did not agree with.

Yep, it is quite unfortunate how few men are left today who do not compromise on matters of honor. Most are greedy little cowardly bitches, at least on Reddit.

And this is why the world sucks. Bankers and politicians would not get away with this shit if we didn't condone it in our own lives.

Reading through these comments is surreal... shills up in arms circlejerking each others as usual. Signs that you are a shill:

1. Being rude - calling names, crazy the usual "conspiratard" bashing
2. Denying the existence of paid shills
3. Pretending you agree with conspiracy theories in general but then contributing to the discussion in the aforementioned manner
4. Not agreeing with a post stating something so basic as this

Remember, the main strategy of the shills is to focus on the comment section, it gives the curious people the impression that this community upvotes without investigating and sensationalizes, but when you investigate thoroughly you find someone who debunks it. The bashing serves to discourage people from opening their mouths. These tactics are transparent and getting old. Most of us see through this by now.

sounds like hypocrisy to me. youre saying free thought is fine as long as it agrees with you. surely people are allowed to believe in different degrees of conspiracy and discuss any accusations that are made? i dont trust the US government, but a lot of stuff on /r/conspiracy is paranoid people putting 2 and 2 together and ending up with 8796.

Sounds like you didn't read my post. There's a difference between dissenting opinion and insults.

There's a difference between healthy skepticism and being a complete tool who will accept any story, no matter how implausible, just because of its anti-establishment narrative.

And the sub is starting to cry wolf (shill) almost as much as it loves to cry wolf (false flag/psy-op). Because they're great ambiguous cop outs.

I think what you are witnessing is simply the demographics of the site widening, thus creating more access to dumbasses... but yeah, paid shills and the TSA could be the issue too.

A whole lot of people trying to shame me and make me feel guilty. Emotional bullies who can't cope with their own fear lashing out at the people they want to be.

I posted this in response to this post by /u/jvardrake in a thread similar to this.

/u/jvardrake has multiple highly rater comments that supposedly debunk a specific topic. Yet if you read the jvardrake's posts you will find flawed and at times, fallacious arguments as one of the highly rated replies in /r/conspiracy.

Not saying /u/jvardrake is a paid shill but the evidence at hand (his comment history in context with each topic replied to) is not lending the user any credence either.

And if you point out the shills in a thread, who are doing the above mentioned behaviors, you get downvoted to hell, and insulted by the other shills.

This subreddit is now a shill circlejerk. You can see them below, making comments about how if they don't call people out, the subreddit will be full of crazies posting about their Applebee waitresses working for the gov't. *One example I saw by scrolling down 2 whole comments.

Fear. People are scared and want their government to hold their hand when life gets scary. Oh yeah, and people are dicks on the internet.

[deleted]

You're exactly the sort of person to which I'm referring.

wow dude chill the fuck out, hes just stating an opinion not a fact that's a beauty of this subreddit cant we show respect and have a decent discussion? Thats the one i don't see anymore now days its just people being complete ass holes with nothing to say but insults and yea your the exact person hes talking about.

throwaway because I don't actually use this site anymore

I left more than a year ago, after joining reddit in late 07. I was the mod on two popular (but nsfw) subs (find the two with created by: deleted).

Anyway, as a tinfoil hat appreciator, I noticed exactly what you mention.

But like, almost a year ago now. I can't remember what it was that pushed me over the edge.

Anyway.

It became obvious to me, and it is obvious to you, that reddit is totally sold out and that the admins MUST be complicit. The whole site is rigged, and being used as a social control mechanism to distribute the common narrative.

The only option is to leave the site. I only came by today to see if r/conspiracy was talking about cispa.

Nope.

Just continuing to eat itself.

The thing about cointelpro is that once mistrust has been seeded, the game is over. We lost.

"wah wah, we can oppose your beliefs, but you can't oppose ours, wah wah"

amen

As of now 145 paid shills disagree and downvoted your selfpost.

[deleted]

follow your own gut instinct

No, follow facts, follow evidence. Do not disagree just for the sake of being contrarian

You caught me.

I'm being paid to support democrats in /r/Politics and call you guys lunatics.

Shit man, now I gotta find a real job. Thanks.

Chances are they'll all be gone in a week, well at least i hope

they've been here for months, if not years

I hope so too, but it seems to be a recurring trend.

This is, I presume, true if there will be no more news of this nature in the US in a week?

And unfortunately that will mean any real care for what went on this week will begin to fade too, just another event for history. Another job well done.

Can someone please create a pure conspiracy subreddit. I'm getting tired of every discussion being sitfled by the unread and braindead.

There is no conspiracy dumbass. It's people coming here to mock you fruitcakes for entertainment.

No personal attacks. 8/

[deleted]

Obvious troll is exceptionally obvious

The problem with the disinformation is this: they come in and do their immediate damage and then melt away. It doesn't matter if "conspiracy theorists" end up being right in the history books, politics are being manipulated by untruths today. Many conspiracy theories have been proven true by declassified documents, but this does not convince your average voter. The government and corporations knows they can get away with manipulating public opinion with impunity. The same dopes will keep getting fooled over and over again. I am sick and tired of your average person automatically accepting the official story by default when it's provably false time and time again.

No personal attacks. 8/

When people get paid, there is an audit trail, and as we saw from Stratfor, sometimes that information becomes public.

And yet there are some people in this sub that take everything Alex Jones says as if its the word of god.

Funny, that.

I had some right-wing keyboard commando threaten to fly down to Australia just so he could break my neck in person. He did it in private message because he's a coward. &#12494;( &#94;_&#94;&#12494;)

Let me fix that for you (automated comment unflipper) FAQ

But idiotic people like you are what gives real consiracy theorists a bad name.

Guys like you are the ultimate Useful Idiots. You spout off these asinine, ludicrous and completely unhinged theories, and then when people point out that you're a clueless fuckwit, you demand that they leave.

No.

You leave. Get the fuck out of here, and take all your asshole friends with you. Nobody cares about your wild speculation, your fact-free paranoia, or your pathetic persecution complex. We want to talk about real conspiracy theories, based on real evidence. You want people to applaud when you masturbate in public.

Fuck off, you tin foil hat wearing loser. You aren't a conspiracy theorist, you're an unhinged, paranoia whack job, and you make people who actually care about what is really going on look stupid.

Why was this down voted?

By waking up, you mean ignoring plain facts right?

Got it.

Seek professional help

But there is ample scientific evidence to explain why Tower 7 collapsed at free fall speed (temporarily) but everyone dismisses that portion of the report and instead uses it to reinforce their pre-conceived ideas.

An internet argument is not a two person event. It's a debate. You're should not be arguing to convince the other person, you should be arguing to convince the crowd.

Exactly.

"Go away, I'm Baitin' " Lol love that film

Our difference lies between the big and little picture. I concern myself with all while you concern yourself with one. I don't care if the other person typing agrees or not, I concern myself with the larger and more important audience by addressing my points calmly and clearly.

The internet is a debate. It's two opposing ideas that will almost never come to a consensus. The only thing that matters is presenting an argument that clearly describes you're side for the interpretation of the masses.

If we were sitting down for drinks you would have a valid point.

Fuckin LOVE that movie, have an up vote :)