You realize there's a military base here with an airport attached to it right? There's also the Edmonton International, Nisku and Leduc airports. These are always over the city in some way or another. They are not chemtrails. They're just contrails from the planes.
Not to mention the fact that flight paths often resemble grids because well, they don't want planes flying into each other. Not only that but most of the time the trails are at varying altitudes even though from the ground it doesn't seem that way.
Not at 35,000 feet lol. A lot of this (north to south vice versa) traffic can be attributed to flights coming from Europe to California. The planes going the other way though at that altitude, I have no idea.
The grid pattern is an emergent property from wind + flight paths :D
Also yes, contrails do linger for hours believe it or not. There are books documenting this back to WWII when planes first started being able to fly high enough to make them
The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim they're chemtrails.
From this article, full of sources and evidence to the contrary:
This theory is not accepted by the scientific community, which states that they are just normal contrails, as there is no scientific evidence supporting the chemtrail theory.
Edit: In the hour since I posted this, someone edited the page to remove what I quoted.
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
There is a mountain of information about contrails, its a well understood phenomenon going back to WWII. Chemtrails on the other hand, started on a mailing list in the late 1990s.
Christopher Hitchens? That guy who supported vehemently the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
The whole idea is more along the lines of contrails being a well understood phenomenon that does not linger in the sky for hours while dissipating like particulate material sprayed behind jet aircraft. You're the one making the claim that these are contrails rather than chemical trails being released by the aircraft.
This isn't a big conspiracy theory, it's obvious, well-documented, and admitted. It's only when someone uses the term "chemtrail" rather than 'weather modification/cloud seeding/blahblahblah' that people like you show up pretending we're talking about being anally probed by creatures from Venus and Mars.
You need to start using that brain you pretend to have.
The whole idea is more along the lines of contrails being a well understood phenomenon that does not linger in the sky for hours while dissipating like particulate material sprayed behind jet aircraft. You're the one making the claim that these are contrails rather than chemical trails being released by the aircraft.
There are books dating back to WWII mentioning contrails persisting for hours.
obvious, well-documented, and admitted
Proof? I haven't found any admissions, other than people misconstruing discussion of SRM in the form of panels and research papers as admissions of chemtrails.
There literally is no documentation of it that stands up to the scrutiny of scientific rigor. If you know of any evidence that isn't on metabunk.org, please show me(or post it there). I used to buy into the chemtrail thing so I've seen all of the major pieces of "evidence".
Actually there's decades of scientific literature along with photos, videos, and written accounts of contrails going back to WWII. It's a completely understood phenomena that is 100% reproducible.
Chemtrails have....amateur photos, videos, pseudoscience by the likes of Carnicom, faux-documentaries like What In The World and groups like Geoengineering Watch and Global Skywatch(so several groups making money off it).
To cap it all off, there are a dozen different answers(depending on who you ask) to the questions of:
What are they spraying?
For what purpose?
For how long have they been spraying?
With what apparatus on the plane?
Who?
Where?
There are very simple experiments that would prove chemtrails exist if they indeed did. All of the folks claiming to have proof are guilty of bad science, misreading the results or outright lying once their science is held up to the light. On the other hand, some folks have disclosed their methods, documented their experiments and shared their actual data, and they've proven that chemtrails are not, in fact, real at all.
I can't tell if you're trolling, but as ice_cream_car said, there are several airports nearby. Wouldn't contrails then be the most reasonable, if not utterly obvious, answer? Is there any proof to back up the claim that these are chemtrails?
Aircraft don't have to descend or climb .. they can be overflights. A lot of West Coast flights to Europe and other points overseas will traverse that airspace .. at altitude .. you're a headcase, they are NOT chemtrails.
There are dozens of theories about chemtrails, including that cloud seeding = chemtrails. Well, cloud seeding doesn't look like the images people post claiming they're chemtrails! This is a video of what cloud seeding looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B3iMc3TG1g
Don't ask for votes or engage in vote manipulation.
And has it occurred to you that maybe the subscribers of /r/Edmonton simply don't want that type of post there? It's very unlikely that it's being "automatically downvoted."
Have you ever been to Edmonton? There are plenty of people here who will get offended by the word "fag". Did you consider maybe people in r/Edmonton don't want conspiracy theories on the sub? That they'd rather have hard facts instead of someone saying, "I know the difference."
No you won't. You don't fucking respecting anything apparently. You don't even have the respect to answer a question about your education, qualifications, or proof.
What connection? Do you really think they're using this program for something sinister? All they're trying to do is counteract the affects of greenhouse gasses.
If that where the case why would they spray in the first place then. They would also be harming themselves and their loved ones. Also, I got your other reply to the comment above. Stick in one comment so I'm not jumping around please?
What is the connection between the condensation that comes out of jet engines during normal operation and the unrelated efforts of others to affect our climate?
The fact of the matter is you've posted a link to a site about geoengineering, which is an umbrella term. Just one tiny subset of geoengineering is SRM(solar radiation management), which is remotely similar to the (literally dozens) of chemtrail theories out there. The reality is noone is doing anything but research on SRM, and it's not a lot of research at that. The cost/benefit ratio is likely low, there are many other methods of geoengineering we can purse to slow climate change and to decrease humanity's impact on climate change. You wouldn't even be able to see SRM with the naked eye.
Wait, are you talking about the Solar Radiation Management thing? It clearly says that the techniques are going to be used to counteract the rising temperatures that are being caused by greenhouse gases.
The difference is that noone is doing SRM yet. Noone knows enough about the consequences of such a program(since it would have to be done globally) and whether or not it would even be cost effective compared to other methods of slowing climate change/decreasing our impact on climate change.
Hahaha! Oh man. Did you even go to school? Or did you just not pay attention? Maybe smoked too much pot and forgot everything? The burden of proof lays on the person making a claim.
No, every class is not a critical thinking class in Canada. And it's clear you're unfamiliar with the term in an academic sense.
Critical thinking is a particular type of class where you're specifically taught best practices in reasoning. You learn to recognize fallacious reasoning and arguments, so you can tell when someone is bullshitting. Like now. With you.
You're claiming a teapot is rotating Mars. We're saying you have to prove that. You're asking us to prove there isn't a teapot rotating Mars, and since we can't there must be a teapot. Do you understand why that is a bad argument?
Nobody is spraying anything. You didn't just claim to see clouds, you said there was a large "chemtrail" campaign over Edmonton and you wanted people to be aware. What people are arguing is that there's no reason to assume chemtrails in the first place. This is where the teapot orbiting mars comes into play. There's no reason to even begin that logical leap. They're god damned contrails. They arent' sprayed, they are a byproduct of jet engines at altitude.
You aren't being a critical thinker right now. You have shown that you don't even understand the term. Do you know what a logical fallacy is? Do you know how to spot one?
And enough with your "just asking questions" bullshit. You weren't just asking questions, you were making an alarming claim and then produced no evidence to back it up, choosing to instead insult anyone who criticized your ridiculous hypothesis and troll the entire thread. You think those are contrails, but you have no good reason to believe that. Admit it.
And we're back to square one. I can't prove there isn't a teapot in orbit over Mars, so it's plausible to believe it. This is not good reasoning.
You're not going to find a "scientist" to come and debunk your thread (why don't you define "scientist" while we're at it.) and it's not necessary. Like I said, contrails are a very well understood phenomenon, chemtrails are not proven in any way, shape or form. So why do you put your faith in them?
I bother posting because I'm seeing bad reasoning, and I like to hope that little by little I can break through to the reasonable person inside of you and foster a bit of intellectual rigor. People arguing against you doesn't make you right, it's bizarre that you see things that way.
First they fight you, right? That's critical thinking.
Nope, still haven't quite gotten that. I thought all your classes were critical thinking? But you can't figure out what exactly it is...
Ok, so what are you trying to say? I never claimed to have evidence. All I'm saying is that throwing up a youtube video about chemtrails really doesn't help with proofing anything. Hell, if I wanted a video on chemtrails I would of gone to youtube myself and found one.
Yes, and I'm not watching it again to disclaim every little source in the damn thing. I tried it before and it was not fun at all. Look, all I'm saying is is that maybe you should look at it from another point of view. Leave all bias behind and consider other options. I've had to do it myself multiple times and yes, the shit is hard to do.
The fact of the matter is she provides zero, zip, zilch evidence to back up her claims. If she can't do that then she's not whistleblowing.
Later in the thread, someone with intimate knowledge of her MOS(her job in the military), who even worked with her, completely debunked the notion that she would even have even seen the things she claims she saw(if they existed in the first place) that proved to her there was something fishy going on.
If you read the thread and her posts, she then goes on to dodge the assertion that she is whistleblowing chemtrails(a claim she says was made by the interviewer in the video, not her), instead claiming her whistleblowing is related to OHSA violations at a different workplace(which is verifiably true with evidence). She is still trumpted about by the likes of InfoWars that she's a chemtrails whistleblower. If her dubious claims held any water at all I would be totally on board, but whenever you ask her for evidence she just deflects to geoengineeringwatch.com and other sites like it that are demonstrably full of bunk.
I don't get why your post was downvoted, I upvoted both your posts because I think it's for a good cause. Canadians have way too much trust in their governemnt, they're more vulnerable than Americans in some ways.
These guys have busted this wide open. The Aluminum, Barium and strontium coming down on us is staggering. Don't let any of the paid people here tell you otherwise, and dodge those who are just not thinking or even looking up.
Bullshit. This entirely depends on the altitude and weather conditions. 60k ft up, its very dry so they disappear immediately. Lower altitudes (which most commercial flights are at ~24 - 45k miles) and high humidity, condensation trails can stay for quite some time. They act just like clouds, because they are only water vapor.
Also, do you think if a chemical was being disbursed in the atmosphere, they would use something that would that would linger for a such a long time drawing attention to it?
This is such a silly conspiracy theory. I still can't believe people hang on to it.
.... You're kidding right? looks like chemtrails to me people have tested different objects underneath the area that was sprayed and everyone of them showed substantially higher levels of aluminum and barium.
Sharing the same doctored photos that have been part of "Chemtrail" conspiracy theorists since the newsgroups days doesn't gain you much credibility. Why don't you look at the science behind the persistence and dissipation of contrails, instead of posting pictures and looking like a daft cunt by doing so.
I know what contrails look like, and I can tell the difference. I've told lots of people who think certain trails are chemtrails that they're just contrails. These aren't contrails.
This would have been an excellent opportunity to share some of that knowledge. Justsayin.
As I say, I know nothing about air traffic or how airports operate, perhaps it's unusually busy and they're simply waiting for a landing space to open up?
The airport wouldn't have to be busy relative to a big airport, just more busy that it normally is.
Again, I'm anything but an expert on contrails, planes or how air traffic is managed but wikipedia says that a holding pattern looks like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HoldDirectEntry.svg, so you wouldn't really be seeing any circling unless you were right at the end of it.
Contrails or lack thereof change depending on the state of the atmosphere, its humidity, temperature, everything. You are misjudging things with the express purpose to "find" what you look for.
Although Google uses the word satellite, most of the high-resolution imagery of cities is aerial photography taken from aircraft flying at 800–1500 feet rather than from satellites; while most other imagery is in fact from satellites
You should answer the OP's question. What chemicals are in these chemtrails? Where's your lab report showing the makeup? Do you have any photographic evidence of the specific chemicals being loaded into planes? Any physical evidence other than what you think they look like?
The difference is, I don't know if I'm right. My beliefs simply reflect my best thinking at the time, but I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong, that I'll learn something new tomorrow that will change my views. And I think that's where you and every other conspiracy theorist go wrong. You're convinced of your conclusion, and search out evidence to support it, rather than letting the evidence form your beliefs.
I'll bet that you don't have any physical evidence of these chemtrails. You don't have any air samples showing the presence of dangerous toxins. You don't have any photographic proof or video of chemicals being dispersed. You don't have any peer reviewed journals showing correlations like an increase in some disease following these chemtrails.
But you're convinced it's a chemtrail already, because it "looked different".
No, chemtrails haven't been proven to be real. No one is claiming that air dispersal doesn't exist. We have crop dusting, cloud seeding, sky writing, and plenty of other things that can be sprayed in the air. What you're claiming, that the government or some organization is secretly spraying the population with these chemicals, is something completely different.
This is where air tests come into it. You could take some air samples and have their composition analyzed. You could show that the same chemicals found in the use of cloud seeding were present in the air over Edmonton.
First: if the government was to actually use such a thing, wouldn't they hire chemists and scientists to make the chemicals non-visible?
Second:What are supposed chemtrails suppose to do? Do you think the chemicals control the people or something?
Third and final: What do you do when you see airplanes fly over your head and see these "chemtrails"? Do you run inside, lock your self indoors? Do you wear a ventilation mask?
I never get why you people call other people sheep for not blindly following what you are saying. It's pretty ironic since you are blindly believing something that has no evidence of existing.
Scholars believe that the first tribe encountered by Christopher Columbus were Lucayan-Arawak Indians, who lived on the island he called Santa María de la Concepción (known as Mamana by the Lucayan and now called Rum Cay, off the Bahamas). Columbus noted in his log:
Saturday, 13 October 1492: ... They brought us sticks of the cotton thread and parrots and other little things which it would be tedious to list, and exchanged everything for whatever we offered them. I kept my eyes open and tried to find out if there was any gold, and I saw that some of them had a little piece hanging from a hole in their nose. I gathered from their signs that if one goes south, or around the south side of the island, there is a king with great jars full of it, enormous amounts. I tried to persuade them to go there, But I saw that the idea was not to their liking... Sunday, 14 October 1492: ... These people have little knowledge of fighting, as Your Majesties will see from the seven I have had captured to take away with us so as to teach them our language and return them, unless Your Majesties' orders are that they all be taken to Spain or held captive on the island itself, for with fifty men one could keep the whole population in subjection and make them do whatever one wanted.[4]
Th island became abandoned as the Spanish took the Lucayan as laborers; most died from infectious diseases. The islands passed back and forth between Spanish and English control
In the past little while most municipal governments have subscribed to a program that utilizes low flying planes that take 3d pictures from all angles to form renderings for assessment purposes.
I can tell you from personal knowledge that the City of Edmonton, St.Albert, Fort Sask and Leduc all take part in it.
Take for what you want but it might explain the increase in air traffic.
Source: I work in assessment.
Low flying planes don't cause contrails. Do you know the manner in which they are caused? Also all international flights where I'm from (which is northeast of Edmonton) fly to Calgary. Which would have them fly relatively close to Edmonton.
Your question presumes they were spraying something. Where's your evidence of that? In what way did the chemical composition differ today compared to other days? Mass spectrometry has existed for a century. You could go outside and collect some air samples and have it tested right? What haVe the lab reports shown?
I watched all my television shows for the night already.
Oh, you're absolutely CONVINCED! that this is a chemtrail, that shills are spreading disinformation and downvoting your posts in an elaborate scheme to spray the population with dangerous toxins. But you, the lone crusader will alert people on reddit. But as for actually testing the air, you have a job and a life, and can't be bothered. That's top notch science if I've ever seen it.
Never mind that not a single laboratory, public or private or institutional, has ever detected these chemtrails. We have thousands of university labs teaching environmental science, doing independent tests, and not a single one has detected what you claim.
You really should do those air tests. You could be the first to ever detect a chemtrail, and probably win a Nobel for it.
No one disputes cloud seeding or crop dusting doesn't exist. We have universities that study it. You should look into taking a class in this, then you'd have a better idea of how science works.
You don't get to make the jump from air dispersals exist to the government is using them against the population without at least one piece of evidence.
Dude, just shut the fuck up. You want to be part of some conspiracy, yet you're dumb enough to not come into the debate with a shred of evidence .. just vague claims such as "uhhh, China does it! ya, China!"
For fucks sake, no. Your link is evidence that cloud seeding exists, which no one disputes. It is not evidence that's what is happening in your photos.
You're trying to jump over the grand canyon of logic. Just because atomic bombs exist doesn't mean I get to claim every cloud in the sky is the result of them.
There is a reason he created an account just for this post, because he doesn't want his original account to take all the downvotes. As an engineer and member of the science community, OP is promoting as much scientific evidence on this chemtrail BS as the WBC does for homosexuality
Sigh, it's not specifically about chemtrails, but the type of thinking.
The irony is you're guilty of what you accuse religion of doing. You've already established your conclusion, that chemtrails exist, and now you're looking for evidence to support it.
Where you go wrong is your claim that what you are seeing above Edmonton is a chemtrail. Every single scientist in this field, every university, every environmental professional organization has said you're wrong.
I said that would be my last post, but I want to try one more time. You can't make the leap from these things existing, to that's what you're seeing, without some physical evidence.
Cloud seeding exists and is openly studied
What you are seeing are vapor trails left as a result of normal aviation
Sure does, you even see NOTAMS about it in south east Asia .. "Cloud seeding"
What doesn't exist is the SCALE that you people portray; there is no cloud seeding, no chemtrails being dispersed over Alberta. The OP is a fucking idiot if he's blind to all the proof against his claim.
High level contamination by natural and industrial sources of the alkali earth metal, barium (Ba) has been identified in the ecosystems/workplaces that are associated with high incidence clustering of multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurodegenerative diseases...analyses of ecosystems supporting the most renowned MS clusters in Saskatchewan, Sardinia, Massachusetts, Colorado, Guam, NE Scotland demonstrated consistently elevated levels of Ba in soils (mean: 1428 ppm) and vegetation (mean: 74 ppm) in relation to mean levels of 345 and 19 ppm recorded in MS-free regions adjoining. The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores, [other sources]...as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.
Aerosol sprays are used. Geoengineering is happening.
Is it NWO end-game? Won't comment.
Might it give you cancer? I don't particularly want to bet on it not.
That said, I've never understood the "chemtrails and contrails look different," and I think planes fly in grids the same way shipping lanes exist.
But there is potential proof that this activity (harmful aerosol sprays) is happening in some form. And it's tied to military aviation, among other causes.
No problem. Just FYI there is really no evidence for chemtrails that holds any water once scrutinized by people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to meteorology and aviation. Check out metabunk.org and contrailscience.com, they've addressed pretty much all the evidence for chemtrails out there(very telling thing about chemtrails: most of the evidence is the same stuff from 10 years ago, being recycled over and over by new people exposed to the conspiracy, there really hasn't been much new evidence in the last 3-4 years)
As I said earlier, I place no faith in chemtrailing. I was using that article as evidence of effects similar to chemtrailing without the precise conspiracy/malicious aspect.
I think it is far more likely that wholly benign attempts at improving/repairing the ecosystem/atmosphere/biosphere could severely fuck us in the end, though.
Totally agreed. That is why serious methods of geoengineering like SRM are not being attempted by any country(the UN has a moratorium on things like SRM I believe, for example). On the other hand people are using renewable energy, painting roofs white(or installing gardens on them), and other things that fall under the umbrella of geoengineering
Let me guess, everyone in Edmonton is getting sprayed by mind-control drugs while they are being poisoned? So does this mean that they will control our dead corpses?
Hey OP, why did you pick the name "chemtrail_fags"?? Your representation of your argument seems really... strange. I'm not trying to slander you here, but your post seems a lot more like something someone who hated chemtrail believers would write than an actual opinion.
The first paragraph starts with a lot of unpopular assumptions about the existence of chemtrails, and ends with a kind of insult in "Anyone who knows the difference can tell these aren't contrails."
The second paragraph is all about votebrigading which is something most redditors would find annoying not to mention it's against the rules almost all over the site.
The edits are just as strange. "Thanks for keeping this crazy train going"?? Are expecting us to take this seriously when you can't?
All that aside, kudos to everyone in the thread, there's some real discussion under the topvoted jokes. I thought this comment was a good representation of the no-conspiracy side.
Shame on everyone who got angry or insulted other users because they thought they themselves were right. Your emotional knee jerk reactions convince nobody and you look foolish.
Just stop. You are claiming that airplanes flying in regular paths as passenger planes are dumping chemicals so high up that a jet stream can take it thousands of miles away to a different location all together.
Just a question. What is your educational background. Are you getting this information from websites or from credible sources.
Well the pressure was at 102 kPa. With a dew point of -9. Sometimes simple science can give us answers. I don't deny that it's possible because anything is but maybe it's because you live in northern Alberta and there is snow melting and high atmosphere humidity. Just maybe...
Scientific evidence is hard to come by on this topic.
Because maybe.....and just give me a second here...there isn't scientific evidence BECAUSE there is none?...
Most people who've studied it either lose their jobs, or get suicided.
"Get suicided"?? Do you mean "commit suicide"? Do you get English? Not even the point I was going to make on this, but it leads me to believe you are not educated. Why don't you reply to the other post asking for your education, training, and qualifications?
My point I was going to make, besides your low grasp of the English language, is that you have posted no source or proof for any job losses or suicides. NOT ONE. All you have to do is provide one article, one shred of evidence, and then people MIGHT start taking you seriously. But you fail to even do that. Your conspiracy abilities are beyond terrible and petty.
Thanks for providing a bit of faked suicide ON SOMEONE THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. Where are the "get suicided" people that work on chemtrails? That is what I asked and you walked right around it like a fucking textbook shill.
It's the Portland Winterhawks who are paying for this in case we face the Oil Kings in the finals. Too much barium in your blood and you can't skate as fast.
Realist checking in. It's the same difference between a horse and a unicorn. One you can see every day on LSD and the other is a horse....
There are no chemtrails above Edmonton. Long standing water vapour particulate in the upper atmosphere is exposed to air pressure and wind speeds that we are NOT getting down here making it possible to have vapour trails last a long time.
It's the LSD in the morning coffee causing these unicorns...
I'm not going anywhere, I'm entirely with you. I just wanted an actual attempt to an explanation so I could examine it scientifically. I was hoping that pro chemtrail "experts" could enlighten me as to how these chemtrails are supposed to chemically and thermodynamically work, but as I expected, no one delivered.
Ah yes, the common misconception that cloud seeding is chemtrails. I was going with the more popular definition, that being the long white trails left behind planes at cruising altitude are chemtrails(as evidenced by the hundreds/thousands of pictures on sites like globalskywatch and geoengineeringwatch).
Just so you know, cloud seeding looks nothing like that. This is what it looks like, it's quite obvious when cloud seeding is being performed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B3iMc3TG1g
Sure, cloud seeding is chemicals released from planes, therefore chemical trails. But it doesn't mesh with the shady panglobal conspiracy that all long white trails in the sky are chemtrails, sprayed for some nefarious purpose as peddled by pseudoscience faux-documentaries like What in the World Are They Spraying.
i live in petersburg michigan and we are sprayed very heavy here. sometimes it rains down from the sky. they used to spray very high but now are so low i can hear the sprayers. im scared to death to go outside. we were gonna buy a house here but i dont want to live where i have to deal with something like this.
OP I see a lot of the same in my skies in the US. Grid patterns starting early in the morning, by mid afternoon the sky is a hazy white. No blue sky anywhere, the sun looks like a white dot, and the sky is completely gray/white.
My thoughts are this is done for solar radiation management - the material they are spraying reflects sunlight into space, keeping the earth cooler.
Those of you reading this that think we are crazy, I encourage you to read some of the many links provided in this post.
Actually we all have aluminum in our body(along with a ton of other elements).
Are they spraying something? No, atm there is not enough knowledge about the true effects of SRM to be doing anything but research on it. So, about the biggest experiments that have been done are a few rockets sent up to gauge how long particulates would stay at the altitude they need to and what effect they would have on solar transmission.
There is no conclusive evidence(people have tried) that there is anything being sprayed along the lines of the various chemtrail mythologies out there.
I didn't say anything about it relating to health. All information I can find says that it is not good for soil quality, air quality and water quality. I do believe the material is aluminum and perhaps aluminum/barium .
I've been noticing the patterns in the skies for the past couple of months. The pattern here lately has been 1-2 days of spraying followed by a couple days of white haze and very sparse light rain. Out of the past month we have had maybe 5 days where there were no trails in the sky, or the sky wasn't completely covered in the white haze.
If you are an instagram user you can find a lot of users uploading photos under various hashtags relating to chemtrails, for different areas of the world.
It's always good to meet new people that are open minded to this stuff.
Trails in my area usually lead to a hit of snow the next day or two. Less lately because things have been warmer but with ups and downs that cause +8 then down to freezing again in the span of a day is not unheard of, but with 3 instances in the past 3 weeks........it just becomes more obvious.
Have you watched 'What in the world are they spraying', and it's sequel, 'Why in the world are they spraying'? I like to try and make mention of those because they shed some light on what is going on, and whenever I do.......the downvotes come a' rainin'!!!
High level contamination by natural and industrial sources of the alkali earth metal, barium (Ba) has been identified in the ecosystems/workplaces that are associated with high incidence clustering of multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurodegenerative diseases such as the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Analyses of ecosystems supporting the most renowned MS clusters in Saskatchewan, Sardinia, Massachusetts, Colorado, Guam, NE Scotland demonstrated consistently elevated levels of Ba in soils (mean: 1428 ppm) and vegetation (mean: 74 ppm) in relation to mean levels of 345 and 19 ppm recorded in MS-free regions adjoining. The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries, as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.
www.weathermodification.com
Just so happens the USA is the biggest client, people are so fucking dumb. The answers are always right in front of your faces if you'd take the time to look.
You should see it here where I live, (west-coast) it's god awful when summer comes around, when it's winter there is hardly any. Then when summer comes around they checkerboard the sky something crucial.
What if they are using chemical aerosol sprays to combat global warming and these chemicals may be giving us cancer or neurodegenerative diseases or it's ruining the soil or it's further disrupting/manipulating the global ecosystem?
Conversely, it could perfectly end global warming with minimal side-effects. But I feel like whatever you put into the environment will be returned to you in some way or another...
You can talk NWO chemtrails operated by Delta. Or you can talk about potential ramifications of aerosol sprays. I think one is real, the other isn't. Same thread, though.
Some people are in desperate need of critical thinking training -- specifically, following another person's argument.
Even though there intentions might be in the right place, fighting pollution and what not, the real question is should they be doing it in this manner? I feel what people should be looking into is which company/ies are benefiting from chem trails.
I kinda came up with a theory that what we think are chem trails (which I believe are real, well maybe) could possibly just be from repeated chemicals in the water vapor leaving a mark in the sky. Hear me out for a minute-- planes take repeat paths, they fly the same spot in the sky daily.. Multiple times in a day even. And the exhaust from the planes might just be gradually forming a floating residue that we are just starting to observe because it has been so gradual.
It was just an idea. Why is that moronic? We haven't been using airplanes high up in the atmosphere long enough to see if it is leaving a lasting effect up there. It's obviously incredibly cold, I don't know everything about chemicals and every reaction they have and if they just dissipate or freeze and leave almost a dirt trail behind that stays. Don't put me down for having a theory.
Because nothing you said was even remotely coherent. And you clearly know absolutely nothing about chemistry (other than maybe a highschool chem lab). A theory is shit if there is no shred of fact behind it. I will put you, and anyone else, down that tries to make a wholly misinformed and uneducated point.
Edmonton is the main hub for most of the oilsands workers and the amount of air pollution over the last decade has gotten continually worse. All last summer i saw these trails, whatever they are. They'd start spraying early afternoon, by the late afternoon, it'd be overcast, and rain at night. Every single day.
You can tell the difference too. Normal planetrail would dissapear quickly. This shit, it doesn't. It dissipates slowly and you can watch it. It takes a while, and then it gets cloudy.
well, yes Edmonton is an oil hub, but as for the rest, maybe you should try going anywhere else on the prairies, the exact same thing happens. you can set you watch by the late afternoon thunder shower across most of western canada, and yes the condesation from plane lasts a long time everywhere too. i grew up in the alberta prairies, and went to a lot of no-where, it is all the same
"chem trails" ARE bullshit, and if they weren't, the only place it would make sense to use them would be low altitude high population. no one gives a fuck about edmonton, it is already under oil cartel control, what possible use would it be to release any sort of chemical there?
Drought for one thing. The clouds form on sunny days, the rain at night makes it good farming conditions.
I agree with most of your comment, but last year was odd. Rain is a lot more random. We had the same conditions for weeks on end. Not saying there is a conspiracy but there is a company out of Calgary that does cloud seeding.
I live in Edmonton too, well Sherwood Park; I see this too.
Our government has shills circling reddit too. Don't bother posting in /r/edmonton. This subreddit isn't even safe. You'll have to stick to private forums on other websites if you want to be taken seriously.
I've looked at some of it, I'm just not convinced it's nefarious as opposed to cloud seeding. Although I admit I haven't researched it enough to have an informed opinion.
Wait, are you talking about the Solar Radiation Management thing? It clearly says that the techniques are going to be used to counteract the rising temperatures that are being caused by greenhouse gases.
Aircraft don't have to descend or climb .. they can be overflights. A lot of West Coast flights to Europe and other points overseas will traverse that airspace .. at altitude .. you're a headcase, they are NOT chemtrails.
Hahaha! Oh man. Did you even go to school? Or did you just not pay attention? Maybe smoked too much pot and forgot everything? The burden of proof lays on the person making a claim.
259 comments
93 ice_cream_car 2013-04-24
You realize there's a military base here with an airport attached to it right? There's also the Edmonton International, Nisku and Leduc airports. These are always over the city in some way or another. They are not chemtrails. They're just contrails from the planes.
24 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Not to mention the fact that flight paths often resemble grids because well, they don't want planes flying into each other. Not only that but most of the time the trails are at varying altitudes even though from the ground it doesn't seem that way.
-1 saxmaster 2013-04-24
And even if planes were all taking the same path, the wind could move the trail so it would look like parallel paths.
Still, I think there might be something to the chemtrail thing. Hell, it might be for the greater good after all, just not politically sellable.
1 Kode47 2013-04-24
Maybe, no, no, and no.
4 Thehealeroftri 2013-04-24
One of the first times I have ever seen any bit of common sense in this subreddit.
-12 lyndy 2013-04-24
Not at 35,000 feet lol. A lot of this (north to south vice versa) traffic can be attributed to flights coming from Europe to California. The planes going the other way though at that altitude, I have no idea.
-17 RiseAndGrindDub 2013-04-24
Yea cause contrails linger for hours and are purposely woven in a grid like pattern. Open your eyes buddh
7 jvnk 2013-04-24
The grid pattern is an emergent property from wind + flight paths :D
Also yes, contrails do linger for hours believe it or not. There are books documenting this back to WWII when planes first started being able to fly high enough to make them
-6 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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6 NorseGod 2013-04-24
Hah, do you know how to edit posts?
-22 thereisnosuchthing 2013-04-24
How would you know that? Do you have any proof to back up your claim?
19 ExaltedNecrosis 2013-04-24
The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim they're chemtrails.
From this article, full of sources and evidence to the contrary:
This theory is not accepted by the scientific community, which states that they are just normal contrails, as there is no scientific evidence supporting the chemtrail theory.
Edit: In the hour since I posted this, someone edited the page to remove what I quoted.
11 jvnk 2013-04-24
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
There is a mountain of information about contrails, its a well understood phenomenon going back to WWII. Chemtrails on the other hand, started on a mailing list in the late 1990s.
-12 thereisnosuchthing 2013-04-24
Christopher Hitchens? That guy who supported vehemently the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
The whole idea is more along the lines of contrails being a well understood phenomenon that does not linger in the sky for hours while dissipating like particulate material sprayed behind jet aircraft. You're the one making the claim that these are contrails rather than chemical trails being released by the aircraft.
This isn't a big conspiracy theory, it's obvious, well-documented, and admitted. It's only when someone uses the term "chemtrail" rather than 'weather modification/cloud seeding/blahblahblah' that people like you show up pretending we're talking about being anally probed by creatures from Venus and Mars.
You need to start using that brain you pretend to have.
9 jvnk 2013-04-24
There are books dating back to WWII mentioning contrails persisting for hours.
Proof? I haven't found any admissions, other than people misconstruing discussion of SRM in the form of panels and research papers as admissions of chemtrails.
There literally is no documentation of it that stands up to the scrutiny of scientific rigor. If you know of any evidence that isn't on metabunk.org, please show me(or post it there). I used to buy into the chemtrail thing so I've seen all of the major pieces of "evidence".
5 jvnk 2013-04-24
I dunno about that. Was he?
Anyways, is the quotation any less relevant? What can be asserted without evidence(chemtrails) can be dismissed without evidence.
-2 thereisnosuchthing 2013-04-24
Your assertion is the same, that those are contrails, not chemtrails.
5 jvnk 2013-04-24
Actually there's decades of scientific literature along with photos, videos, and written accounts of contrails going back to WWII. It's a completely understood phenomena that is 100% reproducible.
Chemtrails have....amateur photos, videos, pseudoscience by the likes of Carnicom, faux-documentaries like What In The World and groups like Geoengineering Watch and Global Skywatch(so several groups making money off it).
To cap it all off, there are a dozen different answers(depending on who you ask) to the questions of:
What are they spraying?
For what purpose?
For how long have they been spraying?
With what apparatus on the plane?
Who?
Where?
There are very simple experiments that would prove chemtrails exist if they indeed did. All of the folks claiming to have proof are guilty of bad science, misreading the results or outright lying once their science is held up to the light. On the other hand, some folks have disclosed their methods, documented their experiments and shared their actual data, and they've proven that chemtrails are not, in fact, real at all.
2 Kode47 2013-04-24
Holy ad hominem batman!
9 anxiousoyster 2013-04-24
I can't tell if you're trolling, but as ice_cream_car said, there are several airports nearby. Wouldn't contrails then be the most reasonable, if not utterly obvious, answer? Is there any proof to back up the claim that these are chemtrails?
-33 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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13 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Aircraft don't have to descend or climb .. they can be overflights. A lot of West Coast flights to Europe and other points overseas will traverse that airspace .. at altitude .. you're a headcase, they are NOT chemtrails.
-14 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 Sweaterking 2013-04-24
And I'll take your word for it that they're not contrails why?
-14 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 Sweaterking 2013-04-24
Actually it's called you making claims with no proof.
-13 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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8 jvnk 2013-04-24
There are dozens of theories about chemtrails, including that cloud seeding = chemtrails. Well, cloud seeding doesn't look like the images people post claiming they're chemtrails! This is a video of what cloud seeding looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B3iMc3TG1g
6 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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62 ExaltedNecrosis 2013-04-24
http://www.reddit.com/rules/
And has it occurred to you that maybe the subscribers of /r/Edmonton simply don't want that type of post there? It's very unlikely that it's being "automatically downvoted."
-22 thepaulstalservice 2013-04-24
Shill says whaaaaat?
19 ExaltedNecrosis 2013-04-24
Vote brigading? Good
Suggesting reasonable explanation? Bad
For whom am I supposedly shilling, anyway? I'd love to get paid to be on Reddit all day.
6 Miora 2013-04-24
I know, right?
-12 mememonkay 2013-04-24
Glad someone else spotted this!
-38 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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26 I_d0wnvoted_u 2013-04-24
because its a subreddit about Edmonton and not about Conspiracies or Chemtrails?
-19 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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23 I_d0wnvoted_u 2013-04-24
are you posting as chemtrail_fags?
Maybe they think your username is inappropriate and disrespectful?
-33 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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17 ice_cream_car 2013-04-24
Have you ever been to Edmonton? There are plenty of people here who will get offended by the word "fag". Did you consider maybe people in r/Edmonton don't want conspiracy theories on the sub? That they'd rather have hard facts instead of someone saying, "I know the difference."
-18 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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10 ice_cream_car 2013-04-24
Are you sure you live here? The sky changes every 5 minutes.
-16 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 ice_cream_car 2013-04-24
Oh you saw it, eh? I saw Bigfoot in Jasper. Bigfoot must be real too.
Could it be you're just, oh I dunno, wrong?
10 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
I can only speak for myself but I'll happily downvote any chemtrail thread as soon as I read the title. I might be not the only one.
-21 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
No you won't. You don't fucking respecting anything apparently. You don't even have the respect to answer a question about your education, qualifications, or proof.
-5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Yes, I can't type straight...Keep it coming lol
61 jack_spankin 2013-04-24
Chemtrails are bullshit.
-23 Ihateyuppies 2013-04-24
yeah it, isn't.
14 jack_spankin 2013-04-24
You like doesn't prove anything.
-5 puppymeat 2013-04-24
The way you prove things is to post unrelated links.
4 [deleted] 2013-04-24
ignore the connections and just focus on something else
6 Miora 2013-04-24
What connection? Do you really think they're using this program for something sinister? All they're trying to do is counteract the affects of greenhouse gasses.
-9 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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8 Miora 2013-04-24
If that where the case why would they spray in the first place then. They would also be harming themselves and their loved ones. Also, I got your other reply to the comment above. Stick in one comment so I'm not jumping around please?
-9 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 Miora 2013-04-24
Because it would directly affect them.
-1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 Miora 2013-04-24
Im not talking about the people flying the planes. Im talking about the people who are supposedly creating chemtrails.
-5 puppymeat 2013-04-24
What is the connection between the condensation that comes out of jet engines during normal operation and the unrelated efforts of others to affect our climate?
-10 Ihateyuppies 2013-04-24
it just states facts.
4 Miora 2013-04-24
What facts? What are you even talking about?
8 jvnk 2013-04-24
Geoengineering != chemtrails
(right, a massive panglobal shady conspiracy of spraying chemicals from all planes in the sky has websites about it? gimme a break)
3 Kode47 2013-04-24
No man, if the Illuminati leaves clues to their work in Lady GaGa's songs then why can't they have a website! DUH!!!
-8 Ihateyuppies 2013-04-24
You are getting caught up on a silly word. Your denialism is quite appalling.
7 jvnk 2013-04-24
The fact of the matter is you've posted a link to a site about geoengineering, which is an umbrella term. Just one tiny subset of geoengineering is SRM(solar radiation management), which is remotely similar to the (literally dozens) of chemtrail theories out there. The reality is noone is doing anything but research on SRM, and it's not a lot of research at that. The cost/benefit ratio is likely low, there are many other methods of geoengineering we can purse to slow climate change and to decrease humanity's impact on climate change. You wouldn't even be able to see SRM with the naked eye.
-8 Ihateyuppies 2013-04-24
Thatta boy.
1 Toploader 2013-04-24
If you want to poison the populace, there are far, FAR simpler ways to do it than chemtrails.
-1 Miora 2013-04-24
Wait, are you talking about the Solar Radiation Management thing? It clearly says that the techniques are going to be used to counteract the rising temperatures that are being caused by greenhouse gases.
-10 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 jvnk 2013-04-24
The difference is that noone is doing SRM yet. Noone knows enough about the consequences of such a program(since it would have to be done globally) and whether or not it would even be cost effective compared to other methods of slowing climate change/decreasing our impact on climate change.
-25 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 jack_spankin 2013-04-24
Isn't it amazing that something so widely distributed would have some shred of proof or chemical trail?
-20 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 Miora 2013-04-24
Youtube video =/= Evidence.
-11 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 qwerty0805 2013-04-24
The burden of proof is on the person making a claim.
-8 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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6 qwerty0805 2013-04-24
Nice argument
-11 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 RoflThatCopter 2013-04-24
Hahaha! Oh man. Did you even go to school? Or did you just not pay attention? Maybe smoked too much pot and forgot everything? The burden of proof lays on the person making a claim.
-3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 RoflThatCopter 2013-04-24
Having a bad day. I assure you that you are not the cause.
2 lobf 2013-04-24
That's not how this works. I feel like you may be trolling...
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 lobf 2013-04-24
The critical thinking course I took in school.
1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 lobf 2013-04-24
No, every class is not a critical thinking class in Canada. And it's clear you're unfamiliar with the term in an academic sense.
Critical thinking is a particular type of class where you're specifically taught best practices in reasoning. You learn to recognize fallacious reasoning and arguments, so you can tell when someone is bullshitting. Like now. With you.
You're claiming a teapot is rotating Mars. We're saying you have to prove that. You're asking us to prove there isn't a teapot rotating Mars, and since we can't there must be a teapot. Do you understand why that is a bad argument?
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 lobf 2013-04-24
Nobody is spraying anything. You didn't just claim to see clouds, you said there was a large "chemtrail" campaign over Edmonton and you wanted people to be aware. What people are arguing is that there's no reason to assume chemtrails in the first place. This is where the teapot orbiting mars comes into play. There's no reason to even begin that logical leap. They're god damned contrails. They arent' sprayed, they are a byproduct of jet engines at altitude.
You aren't being a critical thinker right now. You have shown that you don't even understand the term. Do you know what a logical fallacy is? Do you know how to spot one?
And enough with your "just asking questions" bullshit. You weren't just asking questions, you were making an alarming claim and then produced no evidence to back it up, choosing to instead insult anyone who criticized your ridiculous hypothesis and troll the entire thread. You think those are contrails, but you have no good reason to believe that. Admit it.
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 lobf 2013-04-24
And we're back to square one. I can't prove there isn't a teapot in orbit over Mars, so it's plausible to believe it. This is not good reasoning.
You're not going to find a "scientist" to come and debunk your thread (why don't you define "scientist" while we're at it.) and it's not necessary. Like I said, contrails are a very well understood phenomenon, chemtrails are not proven in any way, shape or form. So why do you put your faith in them?
I bother posting because I'm seeing bad reasoning, and I like to hope that little by little I can break through to the reasonable person inside of you and foster a bit of intellectual rigor. People arguing against you doesn't make you right, it's bizarre that you see things that way.
Nope, still haven't quite gotten that. I thought all your classes were critical thinking? But you can't figure out what exactly it is...
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 lobf 2013-04-24
You've missed the point entirely. Your arguments are weak, your mind is weak. Nobody will be convinced by your shit.
5 Miora 2013-04-24
Ok, so what are you trying to say? I never claimed to have evidence. All I'm saying is that throwing up a youtube video about chemtrails really doesn't help with proofing anything. Hell, if I wanted a video on chemtrails I would of gone to youtube myself and found one.
-8 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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4 Miora 2013-04-24
Yes, and I'm not watching it again to disclaim every little source in the damn thing. I tried it before and it was not fun at all. Look, all I'm saying is is that maybe you should look at it from another point of view. Leave all bias behind and consider other options. I've had to do it myself multiple times and yes, the shit is hard to do.
5 jvnk 2013-04-24
Kristen Meghan has been exposed here(she responded earlier in the thread, see for yourself how, er, serious she is about backing up her claims):
http://metabunk.org/threads/1066-Kristen-Meghan-former-US-Air-Force-whistle-blower?p=36511&viewfull=1#post36511
-3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 jvnk 2013-04-24
The fact of the matter is she provides zero, zip, zilch evidence to back up her claims. If she can't do that then she's not whistleblowing.
Later in the thread, someone with intimate knowledge of her MOS(her job in the military), who even worked with her, completely debunked the notion that she would even have even seen the things she claims she saw(if they existed in the first place) that proved to her there was something fishy going on.
If you read the thread and her posts, she then goes on to dodge the assertion that she is whistleblowing chemtrails(a claim she says was made by the interviewer in the video, not her), instead claiming her whistleblowing is related to OHSA violations at a different workplace(which is verifiably true with evidence). She is still trumpted about by the likes of InfoWars that she's a chemtrails whistleblower. If her dubious claims held any water at all I would be totally on board, but whenever you ask her for evidence she just deflects to geoengineeringwatch.com and other sites like it that are demonstrably full of bunk.
44 AnSq 2013-04-24
Wait, you're calling for an upvote brigade?
Are you saying that you're a ... shill?
-37 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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-12 blove239 2013-04-24
I don't get why your post was downvoted, I upvoted both your posts because I think it's for a good cause. Canadians have way too much trust in their governemnt, they're more vulnerable than Americans in some ways.
4 Jackski 2013-04-24
maybe because chemtrails don't exist.
35 [deleted] 2013-04-24
All that dihydrogen monoxide is pretty dangerous, doncha know.
9 ANewMachine615 2013-04-24
I hear as little as a half-inch can kill you, and it's found in all cancer cells!
2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
It's true, it's all true! The horror!
29 ArmyTrainingSir 2013-04-24
chemtrails AND water fluoridation in one post? Very nice. ;)
22 pyap 2013-04-24
How do you know they're not just contrails?
38 puppymeat 2013-04-24
There is an easy way to tell the difference between contrails and chemtrails. Contrails are an actual thing. Chemtrails are not.
6 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
naaiiiiiice.
-21 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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13 pyap 2013-04-24
If this is the case then I've seen a hell of a lot of chemtrails.
Do you have a citation for this?
-12 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 pyap 2013-04-24
Or maybe they're just contrails.
What do you propose that they are spraying down on us?
-11 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 Revofev92 2013-04-24
Both Strontium and Barium occur in nature. Being radioactive is not a qualifier for not existing in nature.
-2 bittermanscolon 2013-04-24
Thank you Cpt. Obvious.
3 Revofev92 2013-04-24
The linked video directly denied that, hence the need to say it.
-6 bittermanscolon 2013-04-24
And these people. If you haven't watched both videos, what in the world are they spraying, and why in the world are they spraying, please do.
These guys have busted this wide open. The Aluminum, Barium and strontium coming down on us is staggering. Don't let any of the paid people here tell you otherwise, and dodge those who are just not thinking or even looking up.
I took video of the checkerboard today.
12 hanumanCT 2013-04-24
Bullshit. This entirely depends on the altitude and weather conditions. 60k ft up, its very dry so they disappear immediately. Lower altitudes (which most commercial flights are at ~24 - 45k miles) and high humidity, condensation trails can stay for quite some time. They act just like clouds, because they are only water vapor.
Also, do you think if a chemical was being disbursed in the atmosphere, they would use something that would that would linger for a such a long time drawing attention to it?
This is such a silly conspiracy theory. I still can't believe people hang on to it.
-5 aimlesseffort 2013-04-24
.... You're kidding right? looks like chemtrails to me people have tested different objects underneath the area that was sprayed and everyone of them showed substantially higher levels of aluminum and barium.
3 hanumanCT 2013-04-24
Right beneath? You know things drift when they fall from that altitude. You really want to believe this nonsense don't you?
3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
No, they do not. Do you seriously spout this shite without any proof? How did you discover this?
Contrails will persist, if the atmospheric conditions permit them to do so. the persistence of contrails is NOT PROOF that they are chemtrails.
-1 aimlesseffort 2013-04-24
http://imgur.com/Djf3sTS ?
3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Sharing the same doctored photos that have been part of "Chemtrail" conspiracy theorists since the newsgroups days doesn't gain you much credibility. Why don't you look at the science behind the persistence and dissipation of contrails, instead of posting pictures and looking like a daft cunt by doing so.
-33 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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30 [deleted] 2013-04-24
This would have been an excellent opportunity to share some of that knowledge. Justsayin.
19 The_Crazy_Never_Die 2013-04-24
you're just a dumbass, he already provided concrete proof:
stop huffing the chemtrails man
17 pyap 2013-04-24
So, how do you tell contrails from chemtrails?
I don't know, I do find the grid pattern a little odd, but then again, I know nothing about air travel. Is there an airport nearby?
-24 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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13 pyap 2013-04-24
As I say, I know nothing about air traffic or how airports operate, perhaps it's unusually busy and they're simply waiting for a landing space to open up?
-23 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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8 pyap 2013-04-24
The airport wouldn't have to be busy relative to a big airport, just more busy that it normally is.
Again, I'm anything but an expert on contrails, planes or how air traffic is managed but wikipedia says that a holding pattern looks like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HoldDirectEntry.svg, so you wouldn't really be seeing any circling unless you were right at the end of it.
-12 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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11 rienafairefr 2013-04-24
Contrails or lack thereof change depending on the state of the atmosphere, its humidity, temperature, everything. You are misjudging things with the express purpose to "find" what you look for.
3 Miora 2013-04-24
I really wish more people understood this....
3 ashboring 2013-04-24
International flights originating from places outside of Edmonton fly right over and carry on to Calgary. I have never had a stop in Edmonton, ever.
5 puppymeat 2013-04-24
The grid like pattern is explained in this podcast somewhere. Don't have a timestamp for you. Sorry.
EDIT: about 19 minutes in. You should hear the whole thing though.
4 notian 2013-04-24
Just throwing this out there, but the grid could be explained if they are trying to do aerial photography of the city for Google or Bing maps.
-5 TimothyGonzalez 2013-04-24
They use satellites for that.
7 solicit 2013-04-24
No, they also have aerial photos...
-17 TimothyGonzalez 2013-04-24
Nope.
8 solicit 2013-04-24
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps
Fuck off.
-8 TimothyGonzalez 2013-04-24
The downvotes have spoken bro, no need to get all potty-mouthed.
10 solicit 2013-04-24
Sure there's no need, but you earned it.
1 Gloeks 2013-04-24
Not only
8 puppymeat 2013-04-24
For a very informative discussion on what contrails are, listen to this very interesting podcast from Stuff You Should Know.
7 [deleted] 2013-04-24
What chemicals are believed to be in Chemtrails?
11 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Loopy doopy nutbars
-13 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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14 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
You should answer the OP's question. What chemicals are in these chemtrails? Where's your lab report showing the makeup? Do you have any photographic evidence of the specific chemicals being loaded into planes? Any physical evidence other than what you think they look like?
-10 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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11 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
Op of this comment chain.
No I don't. I don't have any... which is why I'm a non-believer...
-11 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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10 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
The difference is, I don't know if I'm right. My beliefs simply reflect my best thinking at the time, but I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong, that I'll learn something new tomorrow that will change my views. And I think that's where you and every other conspiracy theorist go wrong. You're convinced of your conclusion, and search out evidence to support it, rather than letting the evidence form your beliefs.
I'll bet that you don't have any physical evidence of these chemtrails. You don't have any air samples showing the presence of dangerous toxins. You don't have any photographic proof or video of chemicals being dispersed. You don't have any peer reviewed journals showing correlations like an increase in some disease following these chemtrails.
But you're convinced it's a chemtrail already, because it "looked different".
-11 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
No, chemtrails haven't been proven to be real. No one is claiming that air dispersal doesn't exist. We have crop dusting, cloud seeding, sky writing, and plenty of other things that can be sprayed in the air. What you're claiming, that the government or some organization is secretly spraying the population with these chemicals, is something completely different.
This is where air tests come into it. You could take some air samples and have their composition analyzed. You could show that the same chemicals found in the use of cloud seeding were present in the air over Edmonton.
Do you see how you have things backwards?
7 cheesetarian 2013-04-24
Couple questions for a "beginner to chemtrails."
First: if the government was to actually use such a thing, wouldn't they hire chemists and scientists to make the chemicals non-visible?
Second:What are supposed chemtrails suppose to do? Do you think the chemicals control the people or something?
Third and final: What do you do when you see airplanes fly over your head and see these "chemtrails"? Do you run inside, lock your self indoors? Do you wear a ventilation mask?
Thanks for your time.
7 brightboy 2013-04-24
You should research aerodynamics and how planes work. Those aren't chem trails dumb ass. You are being downvoted because you are a moron.
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2 Jackski 2013-04-24
I never get why you people call other people sheep for not blindly following what you are saying. It's pretty ironic since you are blindly believing something that has no evidence of existing.
6 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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14 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Did you really go back through this user's post history? You're a fucking nut.
12 Howells122 2013-04-24
Can't make legitimate claim, resorts to ad hominem attacks.
-17 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Keep it up buddy. The more you post and comment, the more people don't believe or give a shit what you have to say. WATCH OUT FOR THAT FLUORIDE!
8 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
gonewild creep here, problem?
8 Revofev92 2013-04-24
Ad hominem, central to conspiracy counterarguments
7 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 aldonbee 2013-04-24
That last sentence...LOL!!
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1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Anything else I should find?
1 sephferguson 2013-04-24
You are the Christopher Columbus of chemtrails
4 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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5 xito5 2013-04-24
In the past little while most municipal governments have subscribed to a program that utilizes low flying planes that take 3d pictures from all angles to form renderings for assessment purposes. I can tell you from personal knowledge that the City of Edmonton, St.Albert, Fort Sask and Leduc all take part in it. Take for what you want but it might explain the increase in air traffic. Source: I work in assessment.
-15 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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4 ashboring 2013-04-24
Low flying planes don't cause contrails. Do you know the manner in which they are caused? Also all international flights where I'm from (which is northeast of Edmonton) fly to Calgary. Which would have them fly relatively close to Edmonton.
1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Then they were overflights bud .. what do you think, aircraft don't fly over you unless they're producing chemtrails?
-9 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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5 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
How were they different? In what way did their chemical composition differ?
-7 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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5 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
Your question presumes they were spraying something. Where's your evidence of that? In what way did the chemical composition differ today compared to other days? Mass spectrometry has existed for a century. You could go outside and collect some air samples and have it tested right? What haVe the lab reports shown?
-7 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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9 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
I watched all my television shows for the night already.
Oh, you're absolutely CONVINCED! that this is a chemtrail, that shills are spreading disinformation and downvoting your posts in an elaborate scheme to spray the population with dangerous toxins. But you, the lone crusader will alert people on reddit. But as for actually testing the air, you have a job and a life, and can't be bothered. That's top notch science if I've ever seen it.
Never mind that not a single laboratory, public or private or institutional, has ever detected these chemtrails. We have thousands of university labs teaching environmental science, doing independent tests, and not a single one has detected what you claim.
You really should do those air tests. You could be the first to ever detect a chemtrail, and probably win a Nobel for it.
-8 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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7 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
No one disputes cloud seeding or crop dusting doesn't exist. We have universities that study it. You should look into taking a class in this, then you'd have a better idea of how science works.
You don't get to make the jump from air dispersals exist to the government is using them against the population without at least one piece of evidence.
-8 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Dude, just shut the fuck up. You want to be part of some conspiracy, yet you're dumb enough to not come into the debate with a shred of evidence .. just vague claims such as "uhhh, China does it! ya, China!"
-5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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4 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
For fucks sake, no. Your link is evidence that cloud seeding exists, which no one disputes. It is not evidence that's what is happening in your photos.
You're trying to jump over the grand canyon of logic. Just because atomic bombs exist doesn't mean I get to claim every cloud in the sky is the result of them.
2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
There is a reason he created an account just for this post, because he doesn't want his original account to take all the downvotes. As an engineer and member of the science community, OP is promoting as much scientific evidence on this chemtrail BS as the WBC does for homosexuality
-2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
I care because this type of ignorance and pseudo-scientific thinking is the ball and chain that weighs down human advancement.
The big fuss is because you and I have the same amount of power in voting for elected representatives.
-1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
Sigh, it's not specifically about chemtrails, but the type of thinking.
The irony is you're guilty of what you accuse religion of doing. You've already established your conclusion, that chemtrails exist, and now you're looking for evidence to support it.
-2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
This will be my last post, since you're very dense.
No one denies the existence of cloud seeding, crop dusting, or any other use of dispersing chemicals in the air. It's openly studied for fucks sake. I even found scholarly papers in cloud seeding published by students at the University of Edmonton (http://books.google.com/books?id=-qN8rBPg-8IC&pg=PA514&lpg=PA514&dq=university+of+edmonton+cloud+seeding&source=bl&ots=R90cCRffIJ&sig=PZsqgWUR69_lWXhr4ynM_fwJhLs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=W3x5UbGMGqW30AH-_YH4BQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=university%20of%20edmonton%20cloud%20seeding&f=false).
Where you go wrong is your claim that what you are seeing above Edmonton is a chemtrail. Every single scientist in this field, every university, every environmental professional organization has said you're wrong.
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3 conspiracy_nut_ 2013-04-24
I said that would be my last post, but I want to try one more time. You can't make the leap from these things existing, to that's what you're seeing, without some physical evidence.
Do you see how they can both be true?
Physical evidence mean's more than what you, a casual observer, thinks it looks like. Just as I don't get to claim an atomic bomb just went off because of this picture: http://www.valleycentral.com/uploadedImages/kgbt/News/Stories/Mushroom_Cloud_West_Texas1.jpg?w=440&h=330&aspect=nostretch
2 Jackski 2013-04-24
Because you have no evidence and you keep claiming these things. It's like my saying I can fly, You can't prove I can't so that must mean it's true.
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2 Jackski 2013-04-24
Why even bother making a post like this if you're going to dismiss what most people are telling you?
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2 Jackski 2013-04-24
I am interested in them. I'm not interested in claims that have no evidence.
-2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
You called contrails, "chemtrails" - that is making a claim.
1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Yeah, this is it, I'm a shill right?
Apparently not.
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Watch out for Bigfoot!
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
As plausible as "chemtrails" :)
2 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
and in what are contrails and chemtrails different? how can you distinguish them?
5 bro918 2013-04-24
Whether you like it or not, Geoengineering DOES exist.
5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Sure does, you even see NOTAMS about it in south east Asia .. "Cloud seeding"
What doesn't exist is the SCALE that you people portray; there is no cloud seeding, no chemtrails being dispersed over Alberta. The OP is a fucking idiot if he's blind to all the proof against his claim.
1 hazardouswaste 2013-04-24
To be honest, I tend to hold chemtrailing up as the height of conspiracy stupidity (no, not even aliens).
That said, here's an interesting abstract from the NCBI/NIH:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15082100
Aerosol sprays are used. Geoengineering is happening.
Is it NWO end-game? Won't comment.
Might it give you cancer? I don't particularly want to bet on it not.
That said, I've never understood the "chemtrails and contrails look different," and I think planes fly in grids the same way shipping lanes exist.
But there is potential proof that this activity (harmful aerosol sprays) is happening in some form. And it's tied to military aviation, among other causes.
3 jvnk 2013-04-24
There is a pretty thorough debunking of the efficacy of that paper in this thread(mainly it is from a junk science journal and the paper itself is not peer-reviewed): http://metabunk.org/threads/1066-Kristen-Meghan-former-US-Air-Force-whistle-blower?p=37572&viewfull=1#post37572
4 hazardouswaste 2013-04-24
solid, thanks for the heads up on that one. will remove from my mental list of 'well what about...'
5 jvnk 2013-04-24
No problem. Just FYI there is really no evidence for chemtrails that holds any water once scrutinized by people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to meteorology and aviation. Check out metabunk.org and contrailscience.com, they've addressed pretty much all the evidence for chemtrails out there(very telling thing about chemtrails: most of the evidence is the same stuff from 10 years ago, being recycled over and over by new people exposed to the conspiracy, there really hasn't been much new evidence in the last 3-4 years)
1 hazardouswaste 2013-04-24
As I said earlier, I place no faith in chemtrailing. I was using that article as evidence of effects similar to chemtrailing without the precise conspiracy/malicious aspect.
I think it is far more likely that wholly benign attempts at improving/repairing the ecosystem/atmosphere/biosphere could severely fuck us in the end, though.
2 jvnk 2013-04-24
Totally agreed. That is why serious methods of geoengineering like SRM are not being attempted by any country(the UN has a moratorium on things like SRM I believe, for example). On the other hand people are using renewable energy, painting roofs white(or installing gardens on them), and other things that fall under the umbrella of geoengineering
1 jvnk 2013-04-24
Yup, 100% proof here: http://i.imgur.com/0wLYAYK.jpg
Protip: geoengineering is an umbrella term
5 Sraigux 2013-04-24
Let me guess, everyone in Edmonton is getting sprayed by mind-control drugs while they are being poisoned? So does this mean that they will control our dead corpses?
3 Sraigux 2013-04-24
Other than zombies being really cool. What do you even think the government would gain from all these ridiculous conspiracies?
4 eirikraudi 2013-04-24
Chemtrails aren't real....
4 AverageThinker 2013-04-24
If that is "chemtrailing like mad" you should see the skies above PA cities!
2 webbery 2013-04-24
Or London.
1 webbery 2013-04-24
Or San Francisco for that matter.
4 nixxxxxxx 2013-04-24
Hey OP, why did you pick the name "chemtrail_fags"?? Your representation of your argument seems really... strange. I'm not trying to slander you here, but your post seems a lot more like something someone who hated chemtrail believers would write than an actual opinion.
The first paragraph starts with a lot of unpopular assumptions about the existence of chemtrails, and ends with a kind of insult in "Anyone who knows the difference can tell these aren't contrails."
The second paragraph is all about votebrigading which is something most redditors would find annoying not to mention it's against the rules almost all over the site.
The edits are just as strange. "Thanks for keeping this crazy train going"?? Are expecting us to take this seriously when you can't?
All that aside, kudos to everyone in the thread, there's some real discussion under the topvoted jokes. I thought this comment was a good representation of the no-conspiracy side.
Shame on everyone who got angry or insulted other users because they thought they themselves were right. Your emotional knee jerk reactions convince nobody and you look foolish.
4 userphan 2013-04-24
OP, you spelled Contrails wrong.
Or your a fucking moron. Your pick.
3 brahmide01 2013-04-24
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=flights+overhead+Edmonton+Canada
-14 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 rand0mnewb 2013-04-24
you can also try sites like this one. http://planefinder.net/
3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Number one. Why edmonton. Number two. What actual economic gains are you talking about. Number three. Did you know why critical thinking is.
-5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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7 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Just stop. You are claiming that airplanes flying in regular paths as passenger planes are dumping chemicals so high up that a jet stream can take it thousands of miles away to a different location all together.
Just a question. What is your educational background. Are you getting this information from websites or from credible sources.
2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
No response. This is the HIGHLIGHT of him having no case.
3 RandsFoodStamps 2013-04-24
Oh look. Blatant vote gaming. I'm sure the mods will delete this right away. /s
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 RandsFoodStamps 2013-04-24
Nobody asked for vote gaming in that.
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 RandsFoodStamps 2013-04-24
Says the one day Redditor. Successful troll though. Good job, son.
X-posting isn't against Reddit's TOS. Vote gaming is.
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 RandsFoodStamps 2013-04-24
One day Redditor.
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 RandsFoodStamps 2013-04-24
Yes, obvious vote gamers tend to do that.
2 ashboring 2013-04-24
Just curious what days were you seeing this?
-9 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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11 ashboring 2013-04-24
Well the pressure was at 102 kPa. With a dew point of -9. Sometimes simple science can give us answers. I don't deny that it's possible because anything is but maybe it's because you live in northern Alberta and there is snow melting and high atmosphere humidity. Just maybe...
6 ramble_scramble 2013-04-24
Aren't barometric pressure and dew point surface measurements? Unless someone is measuring the dew point at 30k feet.
4 ashboring 2013-04-24
Yes but surface readings can be calculated to account for altitude with pretty good accuracy.
3 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
This comment thread is the only reasonable thing I've seen in all of the comments. Thank you, ramble_scramble and ashboring.
2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Agreed. ACTUAL science was discussed here, unlike the rest of this post from OP.
2 VideoLinkBot 2013-04-24
Here is a list of video links collected from comments that redditors have made in response to this submission:
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3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
So if they don't share your view, it's not reasonable? How about YOU be reasonable and show some fucking scientific evidence
-4 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Because maybe.....and just give me a second here...there isn't scientific evidence BECAUSE there is none?...
"Get suicided"?? Do you mean "commit suicide"? Do you get English? Not even the point I was going to make on this, but it leads me to believe you are not educated. Why don't you reply to the other post asking for your education, training, and qualifications?
My point I was going to make, besides your low grasp of the English language, is that you have posted no source or proof for any job losses or suicides. NOT ONE. All you have to do is provide one article, one shred of evidence, and then people MIGHT start taking you seriously. But you fail to even do that. Your conspiracy abilities are beyond terrible and petty.
-2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
FTFY so you apparently don't.
Thanks for providing a bit of faked suicide ON SOMEONE THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. Where are the "get suicided" people that work on chemtrails? That is what I asked and you walked right around it like a fucking textbook shill.
-2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
So how long do you wanna keep dancing around the question of your qualifications and proof? Maybe 3 more posts?
1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
http://www.weathermodification.com/projects.php
1 snugglebandit 2013-04-24
It's the Portland Winterhawks who are paying for this in case we face the Oil Kings in the finals. Too much barium in your blood and you can't skate as fast.
0 AverageThinker 2013-04-24
ITT: Morons who don't know the difference between contrails and chemtrails.
ITT: People who shouldn't be subscribed to /r/conspiracy
ITT: Shills calling other people shills.
ITT: People who don't know what proof is and seem to have forgotten how to google.
7 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
moron reporting: please explain the visual difference between contrails and chemtrails. thank you.
9 aldonbee 2013-04-24
Realist checking in. It's the same difference between a horse and a unicorn. One you can see every day on LSD and the other is a horse....
There are no chemtrails above Edmonton. Long standing water vapour particulate in the upper atmosphere is exposed to air pressure and wind speeds that we are NOT getting down here making it possible to have vapour trails last a long time.
It's the LSD in the morning coffee causing these unicorns...
Go back to r/conspiracy with this shit...
2 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
I'm not going anywhere, I'm entirely with you. I just wanted an actual attempt to an explanation so I could examine it scientifically. I was hoping that pro chemtrail "experts" could enlighten me as to how these chemtrails are supposed to chemically and thermodynamically work, but as I expected, no one delivered.
1 aldonbee 2013-04-24
Yeah this thread had me shaking my head pretty hard. The Internet is great at cat pics and memes but not so hot at actual science most of the time.
1 AverageThinker 2013-04-24
Contrails go away quickly, chem trails do not.
Let me google that for you
Or this...
1 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
yeah, I damn well know how to google. You know, if you want to know something scientific, you should at least stick to Google Scholar.
-1 localjargon 2013-04-24
They are doing the same in NYC!
-2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
USUALLY, people use capitals when they want to emphasize something that they would PHONETICALLY emphasize.
-2 webbery 2013-04-24
I'm pretty sure these aren't contrails. (Taken over London a couple of years ago.)
(edit - formatting)
3 jvnk 2013-04-24
And what makes them different from pictures of contrails from throughout the 20th century?
-2 webbery 2013-04-24
Chemtrailing has been going on for decades; for example Operation Popeye began in the 60s.
3 jvnk 2013-04-24
Ah yes, the common misconception that cloud seeding is chemtrails. I was going with the more popular definition, that being the long white trails left behind planes at cruising altitude are chemtrails(as evidenced by the hundreds/thousands of pictures on sites like globalskywatch and geoengineeringwatch).
Just so you know, cloud seeding looks nothing like that. This is what it looks like, it's quite obvious when cloud seeding is being performed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B3iMc3TG1g
Sure, cloud seeding is chemicals released from planes, therefore chemical trails. But it doesn't mesh with the shady panglobal conspiracy that all long white trails in the sky are chemtrails, sprayed for some nefarious purpose as peddled by pseudoscience faux-documentaries like What in the World Are They Spraying.
-3 freakfarm 2013-04-24
i live in petersburg michigan and we are sprayed very heavy here. sometimes it rains down from the sky. they used to spray very high but now are so low i can hear the sprayers. im scared to death to go outside. we were gonna buy a house here but i dont want to live where i have to deal with something like this.
4 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
bullshit. what kind of "sprayer" would be louder than a turbine?
-4 platinum_peter 2013-04-24
OP I see a lot of the same in my skies in the US. Grid patterns starting early in the morning, by mid afternoon the sky is a hazy white. No blue sky anywhere, the sun looks like a white dot, and the sky is completely gray/white.
My thoughts are this is done for solar radiation management - the material they are spraying reflects sunlight into space, keeping the earth cooler.
Those of you reading this that think we are crazy, I encourage you to read some of the many links provided in this post.
-1 platinum_peter 2013-04-24
I love the down votes and the fact that nobody is arguing the point..what does that tell you?
-3 bittermanscolon 2013-04-24
So they spray something into the air......and you breathe that air.
Are you OK with that reasoning.....here, breathe this, it will protect you from the sun?
What if the material in the air is aluminum? Is aluminum good for the human body?
3 jvnk 2013-04-24
Actually we all have aluminum in our body(along with a ton of other elements).
Are they spraying something? No, atm there is not enough knowledge about the true effects of SRM to be doing anything but research on it. So, about the biggest experiments that have been done are a few rockets sent up to gauge how long particulates would stay at the altitude they need to and what effect they would have on solar transmission.
There is no conclusive evidence(people have tried) that there is anything being sprayed along the lines of the various chemtrail mythologies out there.
0 platinum_peter 2013-04-24
I didn't say anything about it relating to health. All information I can find says that it is not good for soil quality, air quality and water quality. I do believe the material is aluminum and perhaps aluminum/barium .
I am definitely not ok with it at all.
-1 bittermanscolon 2013-04-24
Just making sure my friend. Some people are so firmly up their own asses, they will bring us all down with their collective ignorance.
Take care.
-3 platinum_peter 2013-04-24
I've been noticing the patterns in the skies for the past couple of months. The pattern here lately has been 1-2 days of spraying followed by a couple days of white haze and very sparse light rain. Out of the past month we have had maybe 5 days where there were no trails in the sky, or the sky wasn't completely covered in the white haze.
If you are an instagram user you can find a lot of users uploading photos under various hashtags relating to chemtrails, for different areas of the world.
It's always good to meet new people that are open minded to this stuff.
-1 bittermanscolon 2013-04-24
Trails in my area usually lead to a hit of snow the next day or two. Less lately because things have been warmer but with ups and downs that cause +8 then down to freezing again in the span of a day is not unheard of, but with 3 instances in the past 3 weeks........it just becomes more obvious.
Have you watched 'What in the world are they spraying', and it's sequel, 'Why in the world are they spraying'? I like to try and make mention of those because they shed some light on what is going on, and whenever I do.......the downvotes come a' rainin'!!!
-2 hazardouswaste 2013-04-24
High level contamination by natural and industrial sources of the alkali earth metal, barium (Ba) has been identified in the ecosystems/workplaces that are associated with high incidence clustering of multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurodegenerative diseases such as the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Analyses of ecosystems supporting the most renowned MS clusters in Saskatchewan, Sardinia, Massachusetts, Colorado, Guam, NE Scotland demonstrated consistently elevated levels of Ba in soils (mean: 1428 ppm) and vegetation (mean: 74 ppm) in relation to mean levels of 345 and 19 ppm recorded in MS-free regions adjoining. The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries, as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15082100
-12 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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-3 platinum_peter 2013-04-24
The downvotes won't stop the truth. Keep up the good fight.
-4 RiseAndGrindDub 2013-04-24
www.weathermodification.com Just so happens the USA is the biggest client, people are so fucking dumb. The answers are always right in front of your faces if you'd take the time to look.
1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Here are the planes that weather modification uses:
http://www.weathermodification.com/aircraft.php
Not exactly a match for image 9 of 12.
-5 [deleted] 2013-04-24
I see that exact thing in the sky on a regular basis here in Texas.... When you need to be concerned is when you see a 2 come together and 1 leave....
6 ygduf 2013-04-24
why is that? no chemtrail marriage?
1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
It's just planes man.... No chemicals are falling out of planes over Texas or we would all be dead. That stuff is DAILY here
-2 a_telescreen 2013-04-24
lol
++++++++++ hahaha
-5 -Money- 2013-04-24
You should see it here where I live, (west-coast) it's god awful when summer comes around, when it's winter there is hardly any. Then when summer comes around they checkerboard the sky something crucial.
-5 mattalex415 2013-04-24
chemtrails are real. Speed of global warm. Depopulation plan
-6 yrugay 2013-04-24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWFSwt2aqb8&feature=player_embedded
would you like to know more?
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-524873.html
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/339573/3/I-Team-The-Armys-secret-Cold-War-experiments-on-St-Louisans-
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1003703226697496080.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series10/week9_aerial_spraying.shtml
http://beforeitsnews.com/chemtrails/2012/06/bbc-documentary-reveals-1963-us-and-uk-conspiracy-to-spray-toxic-chemicals-from-aircraft-2222754.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1457035.stm
http://www.reddit.com/r/AnythingGoesNews/comments/ypkja/pilots_conducting_mass_spraying_of_pesticides/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_LAC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dew
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/7/13/how_the_u_s_government_exposed
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/04/30/homeland-security-to-test-biological-sensors-in-mbta-tunnels/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/sep/25/picket-lawsuit-filed-against-epa-over-human-experi/
more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Stormfury
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charged_Aerosol_Release_Experiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_%28geoengineering%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_Particle_Injection_for_Climate_Engineering
http://www.ametsoc.org/searchresults.html?cx=006604013691433161533%3Acni8ugxqzym&q=HAMP&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A11&siteurl=ametsoc.org%2Fsearch.html&ref=ametsoc.org%2F&ss=4575j7219867j7
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/02/navy-research-p/
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/01/weaponizing-the/#previouspost
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/21/us-geoengineering-idUSTRE69K18320101021
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/research/2008-02-29-china-weather_N.htm
http://www.news.com.au/technology/chinese-scientists-create-second-artificial-snowstorm-in-beijing/story-e6frfro0-1225796559341
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Weather_Modification_Office
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWaJlkyiZjE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da5bRNNaKM0
more
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-ugly-medical-uncovered.html
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/5/5/plutonium_files_how_the_u_s
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/01/health/human-test-subjects/index.html?hpt=hp_c2#
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/gitmo/
http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/t5tnd/police_in_minnesota_have_been_caught_on_video/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/11/minnesota-police-occupy-officers-marijuana
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/177405891.html?refer=y
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/health/research/02infect.html?_r=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advisory_Committee_on_Human_Radiation_Experiments
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/04/02/lab.257/
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/p0rka/doctor_accused_of_working_on_a_virus_that_only/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=united-states-building-massive-dna-databases
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna
more
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/11/hacking-the-presidents-dna/309147/?single_page=true
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/10/09/265663/sars/
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/213377.html
http://www.scmp.com/comment/blogs/article/1209796/pla-officer-calls-h7n9-virus-us-bio-psychological-weapon
more
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/16zjhh/during_the_1950s_the_cia_developed_cancercausing/
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/18aswz/til_the_cia_has_a_gun_that_gives_you_a_fatal/
http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/efhj9/hillary_clinton_ordered_us_diplomats_to_steal_dna/
http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/152xhe/til_the_cia_planned_to_assassinate_fidel_castro/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20537157
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9779589/Hugo-Chavez-respiratory-infection-causing-severe-problems.html
http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/25/4146114/us-government-not-sure-how-many-biological-labs-report
14 The_Crazy_Never_Die 2013-04-24
thanks for a whole fuckload of random unrelated articles.
0 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Thanks bud -cause posting a fuckton of semi-related links is a lot better than posting to a few reputable, accurate sources .. ya fuckin' mong.
-6 montclrwrestlr1 2013-04-24
Same thing happens over here in Southern California, I'm starting to think they do it to hide things in the sky, maybe aliens?
-11 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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6 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
that makes total sense, just look at Venus with its nice and cloudy atmosphere and only chilly 863°F degrees surface temperature.
0 montclrwrestlr1 2013-04-24
so you think they're using chemicals to battle the chemicals already present above cities? Sounds like fighting fire with fire
0 hazardouswaste 2013-04-24
What if they are using chemical aerosol sprays to combat global warming and these chemicals may be giving us cancer or neurodegenerative diseases or it's ruining the soil or it's further disrupting/manipulating the global ecosystem?
Conversely, it could perfectly end global warming with minimal side-effects. But I feel like whatever you put into the environment will be returned to you in some way or another...
You can talk NWO chemtrails operated by Delta. Or you can talk about potential ramifications of aerosol sprays. I think one is real, the other isn't. Same thread, though.
Some people are in desperate need of critical thinking training -- specifically, following another person's argument.
1 montclrwrestlr1 2013-04-24
Even though there intentions might be in the right place, fighting pollution and what not, the real question is should they be doing it in this manner? I feel what people should be looking into is which company/ies are benefiting from chem trails.
-7 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Dude .. something is seriously wrong with you. Your posts are just ... wow.
-7 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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-7 MrMissMrsMaam 2013-04-24
I kinda came up with a theory that what we think are chem trails (which I believe are real, well maybe) could possibly just be from repeated chemicals in the water vapor leaving a mark in the sky. Hear me out for a minute-- planes take repeat paths, they fly the same spot in the sky daily.. Multiple times in a day even. And the exhaust from the planes might just be gradually forming a floating residue that we are just starting to observe because it has been so gradual.
5 supraman1120 2013-04-24
holy shit, that may be the most moronic thing I have ever read.
-3 MrMissMrsMaam 2013-04-24
It was just an idea. Why is that moronic? We haven't been using airplanes high up in the atmosphere long enough to see if it is leaving a lasting effect up there. It's obviously incredibly cold, I don't know everything about chemicals and every reaction they have and if they just dissipate or freeze and leave almost a dirt trail behind that stays. Don't put me down for having a theory.
5 supraman1120 2013-04-24
Because nothing you said was even remotely coherent. And you clearly know absolutely nothing about chemistry (other than maybe a highschool chem lab). A theory is shit if there is no shred of fact behind it. I will put you, and anyone else, down that tries to make a wholly misinformed and uneducated point.
-8 WarriorV2 2013-04-24
An up vote for you good sir!
-9 Abe_Vigoda 2013-04-24
Upvote because OP is not full of shit.
Edmonton is the main hub for most of the oilsands workers and the amount of air pollution over the last decade has gotten continually worse. All last summer i saw these trails, whatever they are. They'd start spraying early afternoon, by the late afternoon, it'd be overcast, and rain at night. Every single day.
You can tell the difference too. Normal planetrail would dissapear quickly. This shit, it doesn't. It dissipates slowly and you can watch it. It takes a while, and then it gets cloudy.
6 ham4cats 2013-04-24
well, yes Edmonton is an oil hub, but as for the rest, maybe you should try going anywhere else on the prairies, the exact same thing happens. you can set you watch by the late afternoon thunder shower across most of western canada, and yes the condesation from plane lasts a long time everywhere too. i grew up in the alberta prairies, and went to a lot of no-where, it is all the same
"chem trails" ARE bullshit, and if they weren't, the only place it would make sense to use them would be low altitude high population. no one gives a fuck about edmonton, it is already under oil cartel control, what possible use would it be to release any sort of chemical there?
0 Abe_Vigoda 2013-04-24
Drought for one thing. The clouds form on sunny days, the rain at night makes it good farming conditions.
I agree with most of your comment, but last year was odd. Rain is a lot more random. We had the same conditions for weeks on end. Not saying there is a conspiracy but there is a company out of Calgary that does cloud seeding.
3 polysemous_entelechy 2013-04-24
welcome to the global climate. shit's been fucked up everywhere in the last few years.
-11 WideAwayk 2013-04-24
I live in Edmonton too, well Sherwood Park; I see this too.
Our government has shills circling reddit too. Don't bother posting in /r/edmonton. This subreddit isn't even safe. You'll have to stick to private forums on other websites if you want to be taken seriously.
9 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Put on your tinfoil hat!
-18 NewYurk 2013-04-24
Upvote for exposure although I still haven't bought on to the Chemtrail thing.
-13 aimlesseffort 2013-04-24
There's lot of material out there
2 NewYurk 2013-04-24
I've looked at some of it, I'm just not convinced it's nefarious as opposed to cloud seeding. Although I admit I haven't researched it enough to have an informed opinion.
-4 sodwins 2013-04-24
That vid in germany you posted is crazy, looks like the other plane is trying to hide whatever the fuck its spraying.
-10 [deleted] 2013-04-24
[deleted]
0 NewYurk 2013-04-24
Again, I haven't looked in to the topic enough to give an informed opinion. I just wanted to help OP get exposure.
-2 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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6 [deleted] 2013-04-24
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-9 trailerparkboi 2013-04-24
Upsetting you, am I?
edit: check my submissions for more on Shills
14 jack_spankin 2013-04-24
You like doesn't prove anything.
2 rand0mnewb 2013-04-24
you can also try sites like this one. http://planefinder.net/
-1 Miora 2013-04-24
Wait, are you talking about the Solar Radiation Management thing? It clearly says that the techniques are going to be used to counteract the rising temperatures that are being caused by greenhouse gases.
6 ramble_scramble 2013-04-24
Aren't barometric pressure and dew point surface measurements? Unless someone is measuring the dew point at 30k feet.
13 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Aircraft don't have to descend or climb .. they can be overflights. A lot of West Coast flights to Europe and other points overseas will traverse that airspace .. at altitude .. you're a headcase, they are NOT chemtrails.
4 ashboring 2013-04-24
Yes but surface readings can be calculated to account for altitude with pretty good accuracy.
3 [deleted] 2013-04-24
Dude .. something is seriously wrong with you. Your posts are just ... wow.
4 hazardouswaste 2013-04-24
solid, thanks for the heads up on that one. will remove from my mental list of 'well what about...'
8 jvnk 2013-04-24
Geoengineering != chemtrails
(right, a massive panglobal shady conspiracy of spraying chemicals from all planes in the sky has websites about it? gimme a break)
3 hanumanCT 2013-04-24
Right beneath? You know things drift when they fall from that altitude. You really want to believe this nonsense don't you?
1 Toploader 2013-04-24
If you want to poison the populace, there are far, FAR simpler ways to do it than chemtrails.
3 RoflThatCopter 2013-04-24
Hahaha! Oh man. Did you even go to school? Or did you just not pay attention? Maybe smoked too much pot and forgot everything? The burden of proof lays on the person making a claim.
4 Jackski 2013-04-24
maybe because chemtrails don't exist.
1 [deleted] 2013-04-24
So how long do you wanna keep dancing around the question of your qualifications and proof? Maybe 3 more posts?
2 Jackski 2013-04-24
Why even bother making a post like this if you're going to dismiss what most people are telling you?
2 lobf 2013-04-24
That's not how this works. I feel like you may be trolling...
2 RandsFoodStamps 2013-04-24
Yes, obvious vote gamers tend to do that.