I've yet to see any legitimate evidence that the Boston bombing official story is a fabrication or a cover-up. In fact most of the evidence I've seen presented has been barely even circumstantial, so that's why I've downvoted it.

Check my comment history if you think I have a covert agenda.

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What does this have to do with anything?

There's a difference between the government using a tragedy to push an agenda - and creating a tragedy to push an agenda.

I'm anti-gun in general, to be honest so I am in favour of gun control. Of course I do not support marshal law, but how can you argue that the tactics used by the police departments involved in the manhunt were not effective? Putting an area on lockdown for a temporary period of time (less than 24 hours) for the safety of residents is far from being malicious or sinister.

why would we care about your opinion on gun control, you don't even live here. how do you even know what it's like? from reading reddit? you basically peeking into people's windows and trying to give them advice. turn off computer, go outside and deal with issues in your own country.

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Correct, and I'm rather happy that I am not considering the substantial social problems facing your country (many of which are related to your gun laws).

like what?

[deleted]

Who are "the illegals"? Do you mean illegal immigrants?

Are you aware of the violent crime rates in the US vs. crime rates in countries, such as Canada, where it is illegal to carry firearms? The difference is staggering.

yet another person who gets dazzled by numbers. don't believe everything you read. most of it is bullshit.

Guns are used more for self defense then they are used in murders look it up its not hard to see. And most gun violencd is caused by drug/gang violence. take a second and browse around. r/dgu

Alex Jones? Is that you??

keep fighting for teh truth mate

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If you are anti-gun control what is wrong with the government giving away guns without background checks? Just spreading the freedom right?

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I know quite a bit about your country, considering I've lived there for a summer and visited over 15 different states. I live within a 2 hour drive of the border and our news is rather saturated with US content.

This is exactly the shit that's killing this subreddit. People like abc523. ConsumerAdvocacy, I apologize on behalf of the open minded and educated Americans. Not all Americans are like abc523.

All I want is a level playing field. The department of homeland security (aka the latest militarized police force that will enforce marshal law) has tanks and guns.

This is a joke isn't it? Throughout the history of the world there has always been a clear distinction between the armed forces and the common citizens but suuuure let's be Oprah in this bitch and give everyone automatic weapons and tanks! Fearmongering xenophobes like you are much more detrimental to our society than what you claim to be against.

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Asshats like you in the world aren't helping either. Look at your downvotes, everyone clearly disagrees with you ideologies. You're the type of person the government should be monitoring.

Now, you seriously need to shut the fuck up.

so he should just shut up because of democracy? you know mob rule?

Did you miss where abc523 said "Seriously, shut the fuck up" a couple comments up? That's why I told him to shut up.. I honestly wouldn't have said that if he didn't. He's also the type of person that is killing this sub.

I was responding to " Look at your downvotes, everyone clearly disagrees with you ideologies. "

it's a pet peeve of mine.

he may be bit of a troll. the best way is to ignore them. they whither up if not paid any mind. He doesn't do any justice to his cause but then again he is part of the masses, and the masses do not make policy decisions. Thank God.

I never made the claim that he should shut up because everyone was downvoting him.. Anyway, if he is indeed trolling he needs to be banned.

I didn't realize the 2nd amendment covered the right to have armored vehicles now.

Sure, go right ahead and suppress the free flow of information and expression of ideas by banning new accounts. That will fix the problem.

"See all the trouble that week old accounts are causing here?!? We need to act immediately to bring back the reputation that this sub once had! Ban all of them!"

"But what about when something seriously bad happens on this sub and people get so fed up with it that they create an account just to call it out? How will that be possible if we've banned new accounts?"

"Obviously the influx in shills is a false flag in order to take away our new accounts so that the mods can maintain total control here."

Sound familiar?

Seriously though, this is a bad (not to mention impractical) idea.

"Obviously the influx in shills is a false flag in order to take away our new accounts so that the mods can maintain total control here."

This is beautiful.

But this isn't true, the front page is full of Boston related stuff.

I just checked, I counted ten threads on the first page of 'hot'.

You are wrong. You are seeing your own subscriptions and not the average reddit that the average user sees. Sign out of your username, click on hot again and you will see what I am talking about.

I just did it.

I thought you were talking about r/conspiracy.

You expect r/worldnews to be talking about what seems to amount to ever so slightly wild conjecture?

Multiple media accounts of the second suspect having no gun in the boat after the public being told repeatedly by news sources that he engaged police in a shootout and then shot himself is not "conjecture".

When its announced before any actual evidence, it most definitely is conjecture.

Conjecture: Noun -An opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/officials-boston-suspect-had-no-firearm-when-barrage-of-bullets-hit-hiding-place/2013/04/24/376fc8a0-ad18-11e2-a8b9-2a63d75b5459_story.html

This link has been posted on r/news and r/politics. It seems to have generated significant discussion on r/news.

It seems to have a handful of upvotes when it should be front page news.

It seems like the reddit hordes, who "cared so much about Boston" when it was the "it" thing, have already moved back to cat pictures and confession bears.

it's #2 on /r/politics right now.

The disinfo agents of reddit probably saw this thread and realized they fucked up so they put that story, which was subbmitted two hours before this post, at #2 on /r/politics. Right OP?

Now way. r/politics is not gamed in the least. The mods there have reputations beyond reproach. What you are describing could not, would not, should not, must not, and no way in hell, would it happen. I know this is r/conspiracy but dude, take it easy.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but what you say here is pretty damn funny, if you are.

|"cared so much about Boston" when it was the "it" thing

That's humans for you.

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Do you understand the difference between questioning someones opinion and condescending insulting and ridiculing it? The latter is become a common theme in /r/conspiracy which is the fundamental problem but people like you twist it to suggest we don't want any debate.

What do you expect to happen when they don't want to provide sources to their claims?

Well I know how I behave. If someone suggests a theory I think is dumb I don't immediately start calling them a delusional conspiratard etc. like some here love to, I either won't say anything or I'll try and civilly point out the holes out in their claim.

If everyone acts like the cunts from SRS this whole place will go to shit.

Whenever I click a link here at r/conspiracy I go into it with an open mind. You have to, otherwise what's the purpose of questioning everything? Unfortunately, I'm the type of person who links evidence and sources to support their claim. The thing is, many users are either too lazy to do it or have no source. When that happens of course someone is going to call them out on their bullshit.. If somebody doesn't do it, what is keeping some innocent and easily convinced person from reading and believing? I'm sure there were some people who believed the claims in r/conspiracy that Sunil Trapathi was one of the bombers, while there was no evidence to back those claims. I can see how these claims could cause people to get upset and say something out of line... Because the claim itself was completely out of line.

Then again, there are those awesome users who have links to everything known to the internet. Those dudes, they fuckin rock. The ones with open minds at least!

[deleted]

Than don't come here.

*then

So you are suggesting that this should be a place of ridiculous claims without reasoning or debate?

Mission accomplished.

Point me to where I said that?

This was in reference to the previous comment (now deleted) that suggested this. Your reply of "than dont come here," suggests that if you dont like debating conjecture, you shouldn't visit the subreddit.

Which leads me to believe that you want this sub to be without debate of any ridiculous claims.

The original comment now deleted did not suggest this, I didn't suggest this, and I'm really guessing you're just looking for an internet fight here.

Nope. The " ridiculous claims without reasoning or debate" was directly from the comment that was deleted. That's why I posed the question.

But let me ask again: Do you support the idea of a civil debate and discussion about the various conspiracy theories?

Yes

Can it be done without resorting to calling someone a shill just because they disagree with the conspiracy theory?

Check my comment history and point me to where I've ever called any one a shill. Again, pretty sure you're just looking for an internet fight here but what have you got for next?

Im trying to point out that there are a significant number of people in this sub (or perhaps a handful of REALLY vocal people) who immediately throw the "shill" word around to anyone who disagrees with their comment. It may not have been you, but it is prevalent in this sub.

opinion or not, it was posted here as early as saturday that Jakhar did not have a gun, and now it looks like it's the truth.

that's just your opinion, man

No man, this is where the "critical thinkers" have gone

Pfft, not their fault we can't see the truth for what it is - that everything is fake!

Then don't come here. This isn't about questioning opinions it's about people berating others for their opinions, kinda like you just did by saying 99 percent of the people here are stupid and illogical. Think everyone here is stupid and illogical? Well than don't come here and stop posting worthless comments.

I see what you are saying. I have been dealing with a lot of trolls lately. Just report them to the mods.

[deleted]

Well done on raising the tone of the discussion.

This guy made a post about banning accounts that just started or that only postes on r/conspiracy. In my opinion the people that have been on this sub forever are far more annoying than the newbies.

Downvoted for an opinion. Further proving my point.

I got your back man. That's how the majority of "veteran" users here are. Also, their theories don't have to have evidence, or sources. But if you don't believe them? You're working for the CIA/FBI trying to infilitrate r/conspiracy in hopes of gaining all the identities of every user so we can round everyone up in our FEMA camps. lol

fucking stupid

Yeah but your point is based on something that makes sense, that's not encouraged here.

So, you are trying to silence the people that offer theories that go against your own? Hypocrisy at it's finest. This is what is great about Reddit, you can disagree.

There is a difference between disagreeing and humiliating people who are just asking questions.

A big difference.

To be fair you guys do a lot of the humiliating yourself by making outlandish claims, and not providing sources. I've had 2 discussions in the past 24 hours where the user wouldn't send me a link to their source(one being the aunt of the boston bombers saying that was the oldest brother who was stripped and arrested). The guy said I should look it up myself, and that I don't really want the truth anyway.

And that's the sort of shit you are defending.

This is exactly what I mean.

And...you're pretty much asking for the second one in this thread.

If you have information with great sources, post them. If you get flamed, let them burn. The information should speak for itself, rather than you attempting to speak for it.

now the question remains, what is a great source?

CIA operative here, damn you critical thinkers! If only you knew how many man hours we put into downvoting posts and comments in a sub that no one takes seriously anyway!

Just coming here to say I visited here only after the bombings. I'm not a full fledged conspiracy theorist by any means, but I love hearing people's ideas and opinions and being given stuff to sit around and think about. I've learned a lot of interesting stuff, some of it may or may not be true, while other stuff seems pretty legit. I have encountered nothing but calmness and civility while discussing things and asking questions, so I just wanted to post to ask that not all newbies get lumped together like this? I never downvote here myself, I just come here to read and upvote when people give me their insight. I also have noticed the downvoting, but from what I've seen so far people aren't downvoting my posts for some reason even though I am continually questioning what the hell is going on (maybe because I'm late to the discussion, I don't know). Sorry some people literally have nothing better to do than get on here and downvote. I'd be really sad if it was made private...

Congratulations on being one of the exceptions to the rules, unfortunately we cannot assume everyone is like you, because they aren't.

True :( well thanks for reading, and I really do apologize for people who just come on here to antagonize members. I am kind I jealous some people have time for such shenanigans honestly!

There's a lot of users like Distichlis-spicata

In fact we should probably assume he is like everyone else because he probably is.

No, the solution is to have moderators who ban obvious trolls. Banning all users under 1 month would do more harm than good.

I agree, you can't just ban people who's accounts are less than one month (that would seriously harm Reddit, and is unfair to people who are legitimately opening accounts).

I think it would be far better to simply limit the number of accounts in a given calender year. I would suggest 3 per IP address. That way, when a troll is removed, he can't just create a new account over and over again.

Three strikes and you are out.

So you want to ban the people who are making posts containing common sense, evidence, and most importantly sources?

But lets keep around those who continuously call those who disagree with them a "shill"(I've been called a shill more than once). The kind of users who change the subject, or refuse to post their source. I've even seen someone say they weren't giving up their source because the person has only been on reddit for 6 months. Give me a fucking break.

Although those close minded users(probably 90% of this sub) are fun to debate with. I enjoy linking sources while they call me a shill, yet them having no proof or sources for their argument. That's fun.

So you want to ban the people who are making posts containing common sense, evidence, and most importantly sources?

Where do you see this? Where do you even infer this?

Really? You've never seen someone call another a "shill?" You've never seen someone change the topic, or decline posting sources? We must not be looking at the same subreddit..

I guess I will hunt down these few most recent arguments I've seen, and even copy/paste a couple conversations I've had with users that won't post sources and call me a shill. Give me a lil bit to find em, and get them in order.

Edit: Here's a couple quick conversations I have had the past couple days. It pretty much speaks for itself.

--- a few msgs shared between myself and a daily user of r/conspiracy---

[–] to cpl-punishment sent 14 hours ago

I assume you don't have the link to the interview where the aunt says that it was Tamerlan that was forced to strip before being arrested. If you did you would have no problem proving me wrong.

That's the problem w/ this sub.. You people who believe these crazy conspiracies never want to post your sources, yet you expect people to side with you?

[–] from cpl-punishment sent 14 hours ago then fucking leave. go post in r/news..

[–] to cpl-punishment sent 14 hours ago I would but the kooks here at r/conspiracy are more entertaining. It's also too easy to debunk some of the theories, and it's SO funny when you ask for sources. 90% of the time they just make an excuse like you did. Which just validates my presumptions

[–] from cpl-punishment sent 13 hours ago You've debunked nothing private. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

[–] to cpl-punishment sent 13 hours ago Are you trying to say that I'm getting paid to post here? LOL

---From a different thread.---

[–]cpl-punishment 0 points 14 hours ago FBI has been reported visiting people and taking their cameras and deleting photos. The teacher for example.

[–]AdviCeSC2 1 point 14 hours ago The teacher went to the bombsite a few days later and was taking photos. That is when he was confronted by someone from the FBI who personally deleted the photos of the scene. The FBI DID NOT visit him at home to delete the photos. Who is your source for the reports of FBI visiting people at work/home to delete photos?

[–]cpl-punishment 0 points 14 hours ago Find it yourself.

[–]AdviCeSC2 2 points 14 hours ago Thought so.

[–]cpl-punishment 0 points 14 hours ago I don't care what you think. The bombing was staged, actors were used and patsies were killed and shot at unarmed. Boston experience a taste of martial law. And they cheered the police for all of their incompetence. Rubes.

---Another great example---

[–]AdviCeSC2 1 point 3 days ago Can you hook me up with sources, please? I'm very interested in this whole crisis actor thing.. I mean they had to hire A LOT of people for the Marathon, and had to make sure NO civilians were around the finish line. Also I am surprised they hired an activist(Carlos Arredondo) to "help" Bauman stop from bleeding out and get him to an ambulance.

can you link me to your sources?

[–]marcy_anonex-redditor 0 points 3 days ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpIkY24xmKQ

9000sins is already on the case: http://www.reddit.com/r/csshelp/comments/1d0976/is_there_any_way_to_implement_this_i_want_to/

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The complaints are not because people don't want to have discussions about topics the problem is this sub is being overrun with arseholes who're just making sarcastic arrogant comments about how stupid certain theories are.

The problem is with generally insulting condescending behaviour that is bringing the whole sub down. Why would people want to suggest ideas if others are just going to insult them? Instead of creating somewhere for free thought that atmosphere creates exactly the opposite effect.

/r/conspriacy should be a place were people can put out ideas into a non-judgmental space where they will be rationally discussed on their merits, not a circle jerk or somewhere were everything you say is ridiculed.

I just made this same argument over on R/UFOs, complaining about that sub and this one. This one is much worse but UFOs is getting to be just as bad. I was told by 3 different people to stop whining. I was told that the Trolls are necessary to "police" the sub to stop "UFO nuts and Conspiratards" from making wild unsubstantiated claims and being dicks is necessary to weed out the weak and either make them stronger people or make them go away. There seems to be quite a bit of hostility brewing in this post. Lots of fuck you's and fuck off. Sad, sad people.

What is this society coming to when rational discussion is shunned and juvenile name calling is considered the proper way to refute someones claims. Reddit is really going down hill, I wish there was another site to go to.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

The super rude jerks should just be banned, calling people names it not in anyway showing evidence or logically disproving what someone else has to say. But thanks to the mainstream media these people have learned that calling someone crazy or stupid = disproving their argument.

[deleted]

Why not say the older brother was a Socialist and the younger a Right Wing militant while their at it? So we can really get the country divided and fighting amongst itself.

[deleted]

Yup, it's what minority group to we marginalize and blame for all the problems of the country today so the people don't realize who is really causing their problems.

It is relevant because "eye" witness testimony from people hearing "bombs" is ridiculed if it's not in agreement with the official story, so why is it accepted 100% when it is?

Because it aligns with what hundreds of others also witnessed and reported on? That's a good time to trust the official story.

[deleted]

[deleted]

That you argue people can't differentiate between gunshots and explosions makes me question if you are one of the very shills you speak of.

[deleted]

Shill

Here's the thing.. Most of the new users are here because of what happened in Boston, not because theyre on the FBI/CIA payroll. Most of them like a little bit of evidence to go along with a persons' claims. Now, most of the time the person suggesting the theory would have no problem posting sources... Unfortunately there have been theories coming about like the whole thing being staged, and it was all actors. Do you not understand how that theory could upset someone? I honestly hope you do..

This theory might actually upset some people because people actually died, and were injured. So, those of you claiming they are all actors is kind of like hitting those victims while theyre down. Most people find that sort of thing wrong, and not cool. So, they might get bent out of shape that users are suggesting this as INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE INJURED AND KILLED. When the only source they provide is a video to a Military Training involving actors on youtube, of course people are going to look at you like "wtf," because there's no fucking evidence to support your claim.

So, when you make outlandish claims and don't have evidence how can you expect people to be intrigued enough to actually debate it?

And I'm the shill

Yup I'm not even subbed here nor do I consider myself a conspiracy theorist but I do enjoy reading different ideas about what happened.

I've been seeing a LOT of messages in the sub from fresh faces calling for all kinds of self-censorship; banning new users, creating yet another r/conspiracy splinter sub, and the persistent calls to make the sub private.

I'd only note that the people calling for these things aren't discussing how to keep robust conversation alive in those cases. And I feel like that's the point.

isn't a sub for "free-thinking"

Even then it would be a "free-thinking" sub, since anyone with a profit motive wouldn't be allowed.

It's not too extreme it's a great idea, this sub is being totally destroyed. If it makes no difference reverse it.

Thank you for starting this thread.

Yes, the tenth one this week.

I actually had messaged the mods last night. I do have some thoughts about the bombings but decided not to post them because of where I work at UMass and what I know, I do not want my job at risk god forbid anyone at work sees the post and ties it to me. (Even thought its nothing too crazy, just something that hasn't been mentioned at all since the bombings and I just do not want to chance it) I was going to use a throwaway to throw out the questions I had, but I do see where you are coming from, trying to keep the trolls down. For now I will keep the questions in my head.

I sincerely hope you reconsider that decision, because according to the sidebar, this is a subreddit where we should welcome that. One person scaremongering and starting a witchhunt should not be enough to prevent you from having a discussion here.

I am still contemplating it. I'm sure one day I will, maybe when my contract is up and I am no longer working there. Plus I am still trying to decide if i need a throwaway anyways, its just a question, know what I mean? But yet you never know in this day and age what could get you fired esp in an at will employment state.

Exactly why a throwaway makes sense in the situation, and you shouldn't be afraid to use one on a subreddit like this.

i delete my account sporadically. /paranoia

Protip: If you only want to talk to people that agree with you, it may be a sign that your belief system is not actually supportable by facts that are derived from reality.

Also you're trying to exclude or "censor" people with opposing views.. kind of ironic, don't you think?

There are plenty of non-constructive contrarian accounts here older than a month. This problem is a lot older than the Boston bombing, although it certainly has intensified since then.

reddit's design really doesn't allow for conversations without interference from non-constructive participants.

in for this

Keep in mind that some of the people posting the "official" story are likely questioning things. I think the Boston bombings have served to wake up a lot of people, and those people are teetering on the edge of the rabbit hole and falling back "in line".

While I don't disagree there are shills and trolls in record numbers, there are also legitimate, curious people who are ignorant of a lot of things.

It's hard, but we all need to show some patience, and report trolling to the mods. It's all we can do. We have to harbor free speech in this sub, and banning new accounts will only hurt us, IMO.

Ignorant to what? Wanting sources? It seems like the majority of those who have been here for a while are more close minded than the newbies.. The newbies don't call others names, or try to get the seasoned users banned(kinda the opposite goin on here huh?). The newbies also have no problem linking to a source, while many users will immediately call you a shill and then proceed to not provide sources because theyre mad you don't support their theory.

"we have to harbor free speech in this sub" really? a sub that is suppose to support the U.S. constitution through thick and thin, yet you make a comment like that?

I'm new to this subreddit, but when you said To me, its one of the biggest admittance of guilt in the history of this subreddit. They have recognized that this is the place where the critical thinkers have gone, and it is now a battlefield. - do you really believe that this particular internet chat space is a battlefield where conspirators come to discredit and discourage the critical thinkers? That's what they want you to think.

Reddit is one of the largest and most popular sites within the newest and most viral form of media to ever exist: the internet.

Are so many so naive to believe that entire departments aren't dedicated to shift how its readers think and process information.

"Banning" is a strong word, but creating a consistent pro-truth message across /r/conspiracy is important. So I believe that the removal of truth-suppressors is vital if this subreddit is to survive the onslaught of shill accounts.

We can keep the process transparent by keeping lists of members who promote truth-first agendas, and those who post anti-truth rhetoric, and allowing those on the blacklist a chance to defend their comment history before final removal.

I have not had an account very long because before the boston bombing I was only a casual reader of reddit. Now I am addicted to it - please dont ban us we are not all bad..

But it's fun to make new accounts!

I think it would be better too allow only 3 accounts in a given year. It doesn't take too many reports to have someone's account closed, but then they just come back over and over again.

If you put a limit on the number of accounts (per IP) and everyone keeps reporting obvious shills and trolls, the problem would work itself out pretty quickly.

a post here already convinced me shills exist

[deleted]

Doesn't that simply confirm that many people are noticing it?

[deleted]

What is a fallacy about noticing that brand new accounts are swarming a conspiracy subreddit after a complete sketchy bombing event (with long-term political implications) with the sole purpose of trolling people who are asking questions.

There are two kinds of responses to sketchy information.

1) Wow, that is an interesting and new development, I wonder what it implies

2) Wow, you conspiracy nuts should just believe the official story and move on with your lives

The first calls for critical thinking, the second is trying to prevent said critical thinking from happening. The first has no agenda but discussion, the second could clearly have a large agenda with more menacing undertones.

Why is it so hard to accept that there are entire departments with the capabilities and desire to stop people from thinking critically? It has been happening over and over again as far back as recorded history exist.

[deleted]

Yes there is nothing sketchy about this account at all:

http://www.reddit.com/user/pepper_princess

[deleted]

Ok, I am done talking with you. If you are so dense that you find nothing sketchy about a 2 day old account with one comment. A comment that tries to diffuse further discussion in a thread that makes an extremely valid point to anyone who is objectively following this thing.

That comment is contributing to the discussion, I made the same observation on the same thread. It provides an explanation to the problem raised by the OP.

It's a perfect example of you trying to disprove the argument by attacking the user directly and not by discussing the argument itself. See Ad hominem.

What's so dangerous about so many Conspiracy theorists on this subreddit is that you refuse to be told that certain things don't seem to be conspiracies at all, i'm not just talking about the Boston events here. You need to be ready to have a dialogue with someone who disagrees with your theory.

Otherwise, just create a subreddit named /r/conspiracycirclejerk

Edit: See, downvoted for saying we should be able to have dialogue xD

Multiple media accounts of the second suspect having no gun in the boat after the public being told repeatedly by news sources that he engaged police in a shootout and then shot himself is not "conjecture".

It is relevant because "eye" witness testimony from people hearing "bombs" is ridiculed if it's not in agreement with the official story, so why is it accepted 100% when it is?

Because it aligns with what hundreds of others also witnessed and reported on? That's a good time to trust the official story.

The super rude jerks should just be banned, calling people names it not in anyway showing evidence or logically disproving what someone else has to say. But thanks to the mainstream media these people have learned that calling someone crazy or stupid = disproving their argument.

Yup, it's what minority group to we marginalize and blame for all the problems of the country today so the people don't realize who is really causing their problems.

Im trying to point out that there are a significant number of people in this sub (or perhaps a handful of REALLY vocal people) who immediately throw the "shill" word around to anyone who disagrees with their comment. It may not have been you, but it is prevalent in this sub.