Or, you know, engage in actual discussion with real arguments. I've lost count of the times I've made a list of proper arguments against some theory presented here, and gotten only a response like "go away shill" or similar. No rational arguments in reply, no defense, nothing. Any time I disagree with a popular opinion, people instantly call me "shill" and ignore my arguments.

For a subreddit being a "thinking ground", the way you throw around accusations is utterly devoid of thinking. Not everyone who disagrees is a "shill" or a "troll", certainly not "disinfo agents". We just disagree with your conclusions. If your conclusions are right and based on solid information, they should withstand disagreement and critique, should they not? You shouldn't need to label people "shills" just for not hopping onboard the conspiracy-train immediately.

I'm a 4 year redditor with no history (or interest) in /r/conspiracy until the Boston Bombing put your "theories" right on the front page, and I was called a "shill" by a 5 day redditor, who completely ignored every single argument I made against his (heavily downvoted) post.

From what I see, the problem isn't "shills" or trolls at all, it's the incredibly narcissistic view people here have of themselves as the only people brave and smart enough to post "the truth". Anyone who disagrees must be a "paid disinfo agent", because why else would they disagree? If you're a regular to this subreddit, surely that means you could never be wrong?

If people question or criticize your theories, defend them. If you can't, then that's on you, not anyone else. Don't respond to properly skeptical replies with personal attacks and absolutely groundless and pitiful accusations of people being "shills" left and right.

A "shill" is not merely someone who questions you. If you want to keep using that word, you better know what the heck it actually means, and provide some evidence to back up your personal attacks with.

People here use "shill" the way the Smurfs use "Smurf".

If people question or criticize your theories, defend them. If you can't, then that's on you, not anyone else.

This. Although i'm on the other side of the fence, and i've been here since i created this account a few months ago, if your theories are worth the paper (pixels?) they're written on, then you should be able to defend them with sourced and logical information in the face of criticism, childish or not.

If someone dismisses your stuff with no evidence and name calling, call them out on it. It's very easy to make someone look like an idiot if you're posting decent information and they're the ones being purposely ignorant and belligerent. And i hate it when people accuse others of being "shills". Doesn't matter if they are, you should be able to stand up to whatever bullshit they throw your way.

Oh, and for people who haven't been here long, and are just maybe getting into these discussions and trying to figure things out: remember this works both ways. You can't disprove theories with other, more 'acceptable' theories. Take any theories with a pinch of salt (or even less if they're about crisis actors and reptiles), until you see well sourced and backed-up information from either side.

If someone dismisses your stuff with no evidence and name calling, call them out on it. It's very easy to make someone look like an idiot if you're posting decent information and they're the ones being purposely ignorant and belligerent.

I'm not even actually posting any information, really. All I'm doing is questioning the sources and conclusions posted by others, trying to make people think about what they're actually saying. That's enough. Just questioning someone else earns you the title of "shill" in this place.

Take any theories with a pinch of salt (or even less if they're about crisis actors and reptiles), until you see well sourced and backed-up information from either side.

That goes without saying. However, there's a trend I'm seeing where "stories", being literally fiction invented out of thin air, gets upvoted and defended as plausible explanations, whereas the real explanations are being dismissed outright for no other reason than that some newspaper or TV station mentioned it. In other words, pure fiction is perfectly acceptable as long as it originates here, whereas fact-based reporting is dismissed as lies only because it comes from the media.

That's not healthy reasoning, or good skepticism. That's fanaticism, plain and simple.

I agree. That's why i'm not particularly bothered by these new people. The trolls are a pain, but easily dismissed. But some people around here needed someone to reground them, without a doubt. It's easy to think you're right about something when you're only talking about it with people who agree with you.

And i agree that people throw the word 'shill' around way too much... If you want to know how ridiculous it is, look at my comment history, and know that i've been called a shill on more than one occasion...

For an example, this is the only person I have on ignore at this time.

Who, me? Or onlysaneman_?

I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Edit: Ah, heh, you're the one I was talking about before. Didn't remember your name. Awesome :)

Why?

I really like your take on it, you glorious bastard! Do you realize you're a genius?

If someone dismisses your stuff with no evidence and name calling, call them out on it. It's very easy to make someone look like an idiot if you're posting decent information and they're the ones being purposely ignorant and belligerent. And i hate it when people accuse others of being "shills". Doesn't matter if they are, you should be able to stand up to whatever bullshit they throw your way.

I still do that, but after a bit if the person keeps saying you're posting from your mom's basement or that you're an idiot I prefer to quit wasting my time talking to them and just ignore them. Don't feed the trolls.

Exactly. Anyone with half a brain can see who the adult is in that situation.

I read this sub everyday. I used to post everyday. But in the past year "shill" has become the goto diversion I've seen whenever someone questions conspiracy dogma, there is almost no discussion. Don't think the boston bombings were an inside job? Must be a shill, don't think James Holmes and Adam Lanza are MKultra? Must be a shill.

It seems most want this place to become an echo chamber where their views can be reinforced, and in all reality it basically is.

It seems most want this place to become an echo chamber where their views can be reinforced, and in all reality it basically is.

This.

I feel that there used to be more constructive arguments going on here, but I think that is just wishful memories.....

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I'm pretty sure 99% of people regardless of race have a pretty shady heritage.

Think about it this way. Most of the people here welcome criticism and debating theories are fine and dandy, but people that are on the opposing side of the conspiracy get up voted by trolls and the conspiracy theorist gets down voted. This not only makes the theorist look bad but it triggers the trolls to make a similar post, as the opposing idea, to chop away at a theory with one liners and jokes. Ultimately derailing the post and creating a bandwagon of jokes and puns.

Let's not forget people come here because they like making this subreddit look bad so they do anything in there power to do so. Such as creating 10 or more alts to down vote conspiracy theorists for no reason and upvote nonsensical posts to make everyone here look like wack jobs. Remember, real trolls have no life and will go the extra mile to make themselves feel better about themselves. I have witnessed in other subreddits where people openly admit to doing things like this to raise their self esteem.

In conclusion, I disagree with you. A simple down vote for disagreeing with people is sufficient enough, unless you have proof beyond a doubt to discredit someone's evidence. Otherwise you are just unnecessarily feeding the trolls.

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Ok Mr. Professional Troll All-Star in the making, explain this user /u/dadadydy for me than. This is in /r/news mind you.

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1d1x1h/officials_boston_suspect_had_no_firearm_when/c9m8kq7

Ultimately derailing the post and creating a bandwagon of jokes and puns.

In reality, however, it's rather the opposite. Crack-pot theories are upvoted, serious criticism is downvoted, and the jokes and trolls are hidden at the bottom.

Such as creating 10 or more alts to down vote conspiracy theorists for no reason and upvote nonsensical posts to make everyone here look like wack jobs.

Even /r/conspiracy is a big conspiracy. Awesome.

I have witnessed in other subreddits where people openly admit to doing things like this to raise their self esteem.

No doubt. I don't question the existence of trolls in the slightest. I just doubt that this particular subreddit is 90% trolls oppressing the poor 10% minority of truth-seekers.

A simple down vote for disagreeing with people is sufficient enough

In fact, downvoting for merely disagreeing goes directly against reddiquette, as well as any rules of honest discussion and debate.

unless you have proof beyond a doubt to discredit someone's evidence

But you don't need proof beyond a doubt to prove your own theories? Why is that?

In the real reality tho, this is Reddit, the place where everything on the front page of /r/all has nothing but jokes and puns at the top of every comment. That is enough to make you realize how bad it's polluting the whole of Reddit, it's literally spilling into every subreddit by the day. IF you don't believe me, that's fine, obvious trolls are obvious but, can you explain this user /u/dadadydy for me if you don't believe trolls are making new accounts to downvote people to shit? Read his comments that follow in /r/news and tell me that what I say doesn't have a hint of arousing suspicion regarding the art of trolling.

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1d1x1h/officials_boston_suspect_had_no_firearm_when/c9m8kq7

I don't want to sound like a troll...but sources for the claims about vote rigging or don't bother saying it.

Notice how old /u/dadadydy 's account is. Now read what he has to say here in /r/news.

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1d1x1h/officials_boston_suspect_had_no_firearm_when/c9m8kq7

I didn't see anything suggesting he was creating tons of alts, nor any mention of downvoting.

I do see somebody with a shitty attitude, but I don't see what you referenced happening in this particular thread (at least the comment tree I got from the link).

Remember that just because someone has a new account and disagrees or has a different worldview or is a shithead, doesn't mean they created that account just to fuck with you.

He said he enjoys going to /r/conspiracy and pissing on them to make himself feel better. Did you even read the rest of his comments? His account was 1 day old or less when he said that btw. Do you honestly let the obvious fly over your head throughout your life? You need to be less naive. These no life drop out kids have mental issues and you're just going to sit there and ignore the obvious? Grow some eyeballs you fucking scum.

You failed to produce evidence.

I know people downvote en masse here, it's widely known... that was never disputed. I was trying to Help You get into the habit of finding evidence of your claims. You showed me evidence that someone stated they COME HERE to feel better about themselves. Find the word downvote in that post thread, I dare you.

You failed and you're butthurt. It's okay, no need to name call. Remember this isn't high school.

Bro.

Seriously, who in their right mind would admit to that? You are a fucking troll yourself from the looks of it. If what I showed you wasn't enough evidence for you, than you should seriously get out of the habit of trying to debate with people. If you can't read between the lines, that's not my fault. Have a good life son.

Nah dude. I asked for a relatively easy piece of evidence from you. You brought me back something similar to what I was looking for, but not what I was looking for. I didn't need proof that people downvote here, I needed you to show me you had a source for your claim. You came up short. It's entirely on you that you failed the task. I'm not arguing for or against conspiracies, I'm arguing you are not competent enough to source simple claims. You failed and the response you had to your failure was ugly and hateful. I can rest easy having exposed both your incompetence and your true personality. Yikes. Have a great weekend friend.

If rules against trolling here were applied fairly, anyone who accused another poster of being a shill should be auto banned. Simple as that. It is a pure, simple ad hominem that adds nothing to the discussion.

You've hit the nail on the head, my friend.

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from our perspective, if you are that willing to tote the official story without questioning it, you are either a troll or a sheep.

I am absolutely questioning it, I'm questioning all of it. I just do it by replacing the official story with a fantastical alternative. I go from "official story" to "no explanation". That's the main difference between conspiracy theorists and everybody else, in my opinion. Conspiracy theorists are unable to question anything without first replacing it with a conspiracy.

For example, I've changed my mind about the campus police shooting (I thought the brothers did it, now I have no reason to), the robbery (no real opinion on that right now) and of course the arrest of #2 (were there guns? How was he hurt?). But none of that matters, in fact, no one even bothers asking me what I believe, just because I don't immediately accept any and all conspiracy theory alternatives, I'm labeled a "shill" or "troll" or told to go elsewhere.

I recently questioned a completely made-up story about the FBI setting the brothers up and telling them the bombs were fake, etc etc, a "theory" for which there was absolutely not a single shred of actual, factual evidence. Does that make me a sheep? Does it really? And why berate me for questioning that, and defend people who post things that are as far from "very researched and historically based" as you could possibly get?

why come to this subreddit and pollute the comment space? the fact of the matter is you are brainwashed in the mainstream mindset and you come from the mainstream (as you said in another comment, you are only here because some story showed up on the frontpage). people who operate outside of the mainstream can smell you from a mile away. your halfbaked arguments and officially supported ideas just don't jive with this community. the only reason i will be downvoted and you will be upvoted is because this subreddit has been invaded my mainstreamers such as yourself. sadly, you'll never know what this subreddit once was because you were never a part of it. RIP r/conspiracy

If CNN said the sky was blue, you would probably say it's actually green, and it's just the joint CIA/Martian bubble shield that makes it appear otherwise.

why come to this subreddit and pollute the comment space?

TIL that questioning that mainstream (in this subreddit, at least) belief is considered "polluting the comment space".

he fact of the matter is you are brainwashed in the mainstream mindset and you come from the mainstream (as you said in another comment, you are only here because some story showed up on the frontpage).

Mainstream this and mainstream that. I'm not even really making any claims about anything, I'm mostly questioning the claims made here. Yes, I suppose being skeptical of what some people take for absolute truth is part of my "mainstream mindset".

people who operate outside of the mainstream can smell you from a mile away.

You really like that word, don't you?

your halfbaked arguments and officially supported ideas just don't jive with this community.

I know they don't, that's precisely why I make them. Do you want to be a mindless echo chamber for conspiracy theory dogma? Or do you want to question things in order to get to the truth?

the only reason i will be downvoted and you will be upvoted is because this subreddit has been invaded my mainstreamers such as yourself.

Yeah. It's a veritable conspiracy.

sadly, you'll never know what this subreddit once was because you were never a part of it. RIP r/conspiracy

...Aaand the martyrdom card. Perfect conclusion.

Smurfy comment.

This is the best comment this subreddit has had in a long time.

I couldn't have said it better myself.. I've been called a shill almost daily since the attacks in Boston, and I've been frequenting/lurking r/conspiracy over a year.

You are right and I haven't seen enough people post the tens and tens of declassified false flag operations like Gulf of Tonkin, Northwoods, Ajax, Gladio, Fast and Furious, Bay of pigs, operation Mockingbird, and other things the US government has done that are declassified like MKUltra, infecting children with deadly viruses, radiating children with radiation, injecting black people with experimental vaccines, doing tests on the troops, etc... All declassified information for anyone who would want to research it.

So more people, heck everyone should post about the hundreds of events and things the US government has done just in the past 50 years, let alone we count international false flag events like Hitler blowing up his own Reistag to start WW2.

The thing is, at least with me, is that your (or any 'skeptic's) arguments make sense to you, but not to me, because youre missing information, and i dont have 3 hours to go and find every source on what information youre missing, on the off chance that you even were open to the information if its not from a mainstream news source. It takes years of independent research for a lot of the stuff here to make sense or for assumptions not to seem like "stretches" and if you dont do that it just seems like were crazy. Itd be like me being trying to explain to you string theory when you only understand trigonometry (except you are committed to believing i am wrong). It would honestly take days of writing to even give enough background to refute many of the arguments skeptics make, and thats why most of us just give up. And thats just one skeptic. None of us have the time, let alone are eloquent or educated enough, to lay out every single piece of evidence in perfect logical order as to why your argument is flawed. Theres are hundreds of thousands of books, articles, documentaries, and lectures by people who devotes their life to this, and when we say "do your own research" we are saying to check those out. This stuff isnt easy to understand and if youre committed to mis understanding, and refuse to even be open to it unless someone is going to lay it out for you (which would take at least days of writing, which most skeptics would just say tl;dr) its just not worth the time.

If you actually want to understand why we think what we think, i have hundreds of documentaries, dozens of books, hundreds of articles saved that would get you started, but of course if youre not willing to comb through information and research for yourself, this subreddit or 'conspiracy theory' are never going to make sense.

I agree with you however that people massively over use the term shill, and many may even think it means something it doesnt.

Itd be like me being trying to explain to you string theory when you only understand trigonometry (except you are committed to believing i am wrong).

The thing is, neither of us are physicists! That's the absolute main focal point of my argument. You are not divinely gifted with insights into the occluded in a way I'm not. You reference "years of independent research" as if that actually meant something on its own. You say you can't be bothered to spend 3 hours gathering sources for your claims, as if 2 minutes wouldn't be enough to at least get me started. Lastly, you push the entire responsibility back over to me, claiming I'm not open to contrary arguments to begin with.

There is no "years of independent research", at least not that actually proves the existence of all the various conspiracy theories promoted here. There are thousands of Youtube videos by enthusiasts and hobbyists blowing up "thermite" or collapsing stacks of bricks, but that's not nearly the same. The actual years of research performed, like the 9/11 commission and various other ventures, would be something you could actually refer to and sound somewhat convincing. But just doing the r/conspiracy dance of claiming you've got "sources" and "evidence" I don't even know about proves squat. Diddly squat.

Websites listing coincidences, numerology or pareidolia do not constitutes "years of independent research", yet that is 99% of the stuff being posted here. If you have credible, independent sources that are confirmed and corroborated elsewhere, post them. I'll gladly take a look at them with an open mind.

If you actually want to understand why we think what we think, i have hundreds of documentaries, dozens of books, hundreds of articles saved that would get you started, but of course if youre not willing to comb through information and research for yourself, this subreddit or 'conspiracy theory' are never going to make sense.

The problem is that this isn't true. What you actually mean to say is that if I'm not willing to simply accept what those documentaries, books and articles claim, despite all other "mainstream" research or facts, this subreddit is never going to make sense. Because it doesn't. Contradictory theories based on equal measures of evidence are presented all the time (global warming is a hoax, yet HAARP can control the weather), and no one thinks twice, but a "mainstream theory that contradicts a conspiracy? Conspiracy all the way, no questions asked, no doubt.

You being a shill or not doesn't mean shills don't exist. Sorry your opinions got bashed but it's the conspiracy subreddit fucking deal with it, I get downvoted to oblivion and called a moronic idiot when I post in regular subreddits

You being a shill or not doesn't mean shills don't exist.

No, I'm sure actual shills do exist. I also know I wish I would get paid to comment here, but I'm not.

Sorry your opinions got bashed but it's the conspiracy subreddit fucking deal with it

From the sidebar: "This subreddit is a thinking ground, above all else we respect everyone's opinions and ALL religious beliefs and creeds."

No, I don't think I will fucking deal with it. I think you should change your fucking demeanor, per this subreddit's guidelines.

Or how about I don't? Fucking deal with it meaning deal with everyone else's opinions all the time even if they're senselessly calling you a shill. Goes right with the subreddits guidelines, the guidelines don't say "be super nice to everyone in all your posts"

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I'm not "butthurt", I disagree with the opinion that it's somehow right to call me a shill.

Are you so butthurt that I disagree with you that you have to call me names?

[deleted]

That's not at all the definition of insanity.

[deleted]

You Glen Becked it! Lol :)

Typically only people who behave like shills get called shills unironically. If you disagree or agree fairly people will debate.

Not according to my experience. There's no pattern to when I get called a "shill". I can write a short, dismissive comment and be called a "shill", or I can write a long, numbered list of arguments and complaints, and be called a "shill" as well. Every person who has called me that has done so only after I openly disagreed. That's it. I haven't supported any particular position (not even the media's), I haven't defended anyone or anything in particular, only been highly critical of the fantastical and outrageous theories floating around in this sub. There is absolutely not a single reason whatsoever for anyone to consider me a "paid disinfo agent", except for that fact that I openly disagree with many of the conspiracy theories here.

Maybe there are some basics you don't subscribe to. List some conspiracies you believe in

This is part of the problem. What does that even matter? Whether I believe in other conspiracy theories or not in no way has anything to do with whether or not my arguments or questions are sound.

I'm not going to answer questions like that, because they're basically thinly veiled personal attacks and ad hominem arguments that carry no weight whatsoever in the actual discussion.

Go to /r/politics if you believe in no conpiracies. Or go to /r/conspiritard if you're a freak. I'll debate you on worldnews about JFK or something basic like that, but not here. It's a waste of time. And of course it has nothing to do with your arguments. The problem is that "shills" parrot the same establishment points that could be read in any textbook. I would imagine that debating the nuances of conspiracy is something that should be done here.

Thank you for mostly just proving my point.

Apparently I can only speak here if I already believe what you post arguments for believing. So what's the point? To be an echo chamber and circle-jerk for conspiracy theorist believers?

The problem is that "shills" parrot the same establishment points that could be read in any textbook.

No, the problem is that you disbelieve something just because it's written in a textbook. You're already convinced of the conclusion, and accept only arguments and facts that support them, nothing else. If I don't believe as you do, my arguments don't matter and I shouldn't even be here.

I would imagine that debating the nuances of conspiracy is something that should be done here.

"Respect other views and opinions, keep an open mind." That's right in the sidebar. It goes both ways, you know. I respect your views and opinions that everything is a conspiracy, but I choose to question and criticize it to make sure they're solid. You apparently don't respect my views and opinions, because they don't align with your own, and tell me I should go elsewhere.

Who's actually on the path to honest, fact-based and truthful conclusions? And who just wants to confirm what they already believe?

I'm with you one hundred percent. I've gotten carried away in the past and be a little rude to people, but you're right what needs to be at the forefront is facts and deductive reasoning. As I was reading your posts I feel like maybe the problem you're facing is you're not here to be entertained and a lot of people are. I think people that call out the fantasy theories, like crisis actors and reptiles, are just buzzkills for some people that just want to read about conspiracies and not do anything about it. I've said this before, it's a lot easier to look at a picture with text over it or watch a little radio broadcast than read through a dense piece about financial fraud or illegal whatever. It would be nice to see some more activist oriented stuff on here instead of, "EVERYONE ON EARTH IS A CRISIS ACTOR!!!!!111!!" I had to give myself a laugh here ha. Anyways, point is I'm glad you're sticking to your logic.

thats why It's called /r/conspiracy not r/general. For instance, I would never enter into a debate with a nihilist on morality. I respect your opinion I just don't understand your motivation. I don't go to /r/oranges and say that apples are better. I would be expected to go there and talk about why blood oranges are bad and why the others are better or whatever.

thats why It's called /r/conspiracy not r/general.

So that means you can only agree that politics are good in /r/politics? You can never think something is not funny in /r/funny? You should not say any game is bad in /r/gaming?

A subreddit is for discussion of a given topic, not just agreement. If you can't handle discussion about conspiracies, between people who are both for and against belief in them, then again, this is nothing but a giant circlejerk.

I don't go to /r/oranges and say that apples are better.

Neither do I. I go to /r/conspiracy and read your arguments for why they exist, look at the evidence given, and then proceed to speak my honest opinion on it. Fuck me, right?

So that means you can only agree that politics are good in [2] /r/politics?

Poorly framed question but yes. You must agree that politics are a real thing, and that you think they are worth discussing. In the same vein here you must admit that conspiracies outside of mainstream acceptance are real, and should be discussed.

You can never think something is not funny in [3] /r/funny? You should not say any game is bad in [4] /r/gaming?

No.

A subreddit is for discussion of a given topic, not just agreement. If you can't handle discussion about conspiracies, between people who are both for and against belief in them, then again, this is nothing but a giant circlejerk.

Circlejerk implies lack of debate. The reason /r/conspiracy needs moderation is because shills, JIDF, Hasbara, etc are real things. It's not some fairy tail, disinfo really happens.

Fuck me, right?

Yeah. Again I would ask if you believe in any conspiracies, in the same way I would ask if you even like chocolate on r/crunchbars.

You must agree that politics are a real thing, and that you think they are worth discussing.

There is no disagreement over whether or not politics itself is real. /r/politics doesn't argue that it's real, because there's no one else to argue that it's not.

Conspiracies, however, is something people do argue is "real", whether everyone else believes they're not. It's an actual topic of discussion, whether "is politics real" is not.

No.

I disagree.

Circlejerk implies lack of debate.

Yes, and since you're saying I can't debate whether conspiracies are real, this is, by definition, a circlejerk.

Yeah. Again I would ask if you believe in any conspiracies, in the same way I would ask if you even like chocolate on r/crunchbars.

Whether or not people like "chrunchbars" has no real impact on real life matters. Conspiracies do. It has even permeated the top levels of US politics. I'd say this is a far more serious matter than whether a person likes chocolate or not. The accusation that people seriously hurt in the bombing were actually actors, or that the entire FBI is involved in deliberately ruining people's live is a far more serious matter. It should be questioned, criticized and debated.

Right, but this isn't a religion or an entirely opinionated subject, it's a form of challenging authority based on objective facts and logical reasoning. I will tell you you shod debate a nihilist in morality or discuss why oranges are worse than apples, because those are subjective views and there are interesting things to learn about others discussing those things. A conspiracy, however, ought to be a logical chain that propagates an argument. So you should be able to debate the premises of your conspiracy theories and, better yet, know each piece of important information that leads a theory to be likely so you can explain it to people who ask or challenge you. This isn't a religion and we don't have to have faith in the JFK assassination being this or that, or that the moon landing was fake, or whatever to discuss what possible conspiracies are taking place in our world. Nobody wants to ruin your fun or anything, but some people want to keep the theories concise and logical so we can stand by them when there is a need to.

Seriously. There's a big difference between being a contributing member in a subreddit, and coming into one and shitting on all the users for following the spirit of their community.

Whiteknight all you want about being full of truth and "real" arguments, Endemoniada. You lost all credibility when you started attacking the userbase here. I wouldn't go to /r/aww and post about how banal their content is.

Besides, you said it yourself...

I'm a 4 year redditor with no history (or interest) in /r/conspiracy until the Boston Bombing

Then why are you here? By your own admission you're essentially just a troll.

Seriously. There's a big difference between being a contributing member in a subreddit, and coming into one and shitting on all the users for following the spirit of their community.

I'm not shitting on any user. I respect any member of this community who stands up for what they believe and present a good, honest argument in favor of it.

But most people don't do that.

Whiteknight all you want about being full of truth and "real" arguments, Endemoniada. You lost all credibility when you started attacking the userbase here.

I question the userbase. If the users can't handle being questioned on the theories they propose, they're not theories to begin with. They're dogma. They're faith-based beliefs.

Theories are for people who know how to make them and defend them. If all you want to do is look for reasons to keep believing what you already believe, /r/religion is over there...

Then why are you here? By your own admission you're essentially just a troll.

No, a troll is someone who posts things purely to annoy others, usually not even caring what they post. I care very much about what I post, and if having outrageous claims questioned annoys you, then that's your problem, not mine.

I am not a troll, nor a shill. I am a real person who disagrees with you on the facts, and questions the theories you propose. That's it. It's as simple as that.

Fuck it. Go right ahead and try to clean this place up then. All I see is a person who stereotypes an entire userbase and mass downvotes anyone who disagrees with him (rather poor reddiquette for a "charter member"). I never disagreed with any points you made, yet you insist on molding me into your view of this sub.

So once again I've got to ask: If you have such a distaste for the members of this sub, why are you even here? What insane mentality is driving you to wade through a subreddit that you aren't even a member of in a self-righteous attempt to "fix" it? What do you even seek to accomplish?

All I see is a person who stereotypes an entire userbase and mass downvotes anyone who disagrees with him (rather poor reddiquette for a "charter member").

I only downvote people who refuse to stick to the subject, and instead attack my person (which is perfectly fine according to reddiquette). I never downvote anyone for disagreeing with me in a mature and rational manner.

I never disagreed with any points you made, yet you insist on molding me into your view of this sub.

You accused me of not contributing, and implied that I was "shitting on all the users". By disagreeing with them. By holding them to higher standards of logic and evidence.

Right.

So once again I've got to ask: If you have such a distaste for the members of this sub, why are you even here?

I find conspiracy theories interesting. Not in the sense that I believe in them, but in the psychological sense of "why does anyone believe in them"? I also really dislike poor logic, lazy arguments and people who pretend that things they make up out of thin air is "truth".

Keep your pimp hand strong! That's what this place needs more of.

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If you drown, you're innocent. If you float, we burn you for the witch you are.

The mentality displayed here is absolutely fascinating.

well, look at your attitude. I'm not sure what else you would expect around here

I suspect he was expecting a subreddit that is a thinking ground where, above all else, people respected everyone's opinions and ALL religious beliefs and creeds. Where people hope to challenge issues which have captured the public's imagination. A subreddit where people respect other views and opinions and keep an open mind. A subreddit aimed towards a fairer, more transparent world and a better future for everyone.

he has no right to demand answers from anyone

he should expect the same treatment he offers

You do know that all I did was paraphrase the sidebar, right?

your point being?

My point being that both your responses to him and your responses to me go directly against what is described in the sidebar. You asked what he expected, so I quoted the sidebar.

I demand he be banned for violating the sidebar. Your move mods.

He violated the spirit of the rules, not the letter.

I rescind my demand!

Consider it rescinded then my friend and enjoy your day.

I was mostly joking anyways. I should have sarcasm tagged it. You have a good one too!

What about the sidebar says that you can demand answers from people?

really now

he has no right to demand answers from anyone

I don't, but you do? Or do you not, in fact, "demand answers" regarding the things you consider conspiracies?

Why the double standard?

who have I demanded answers from??

HI, I've frequented many conspiracy forums over the years and one thing I hate is being called a fucking disinfo agent. Just because I don't agree it does not mean I'm a paid agent for the man.

Hey man I've got a quota from the JIDF to piss off 5 conspiracy nuts a day or I don't get my shill money. I've got a family to feed.

It's gettin hard out there for a shill.

Seriously, where do I sign up to get paid to argue with people on the internet? Doesn't sound like a bad job to me.

Or, you know, have some integrity.

I don't see the ignore feature you are talking about.

Is it possible the government is now hacking reddit so the ignore button is hidden from me?

Ignore is a part of the Reddit Enhancement Suite, not part of reddit.

yes

100% thats happening they are on to you

Choosing ignorance, even in the face of ignorant people, is never a wise thing to do.

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Don't you know your dick gets bigger the longer you've been a redditor?

"The shill agenda" also known as difference of opinion.

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Dude nobody is a shill I have been called a shill so many times. I was accused of incubating this account or selling this account to government SO MANY TIMES. Is it true? NO, but the person who was telling me that was CONVINCED I am a shill and I work for the government ONLY because I posted something that supports the official idea. Nothing more

This subreddit will turn into Soviet Russia where everyone was thrown into jail for saying 1 wrong word.

I see you can only agree on this subbreddit as soon as you disagree you are called a shill and made fun of. As soon as you disagree you are a shill, no difference of opinion whatsoever

Yep, that's me. I've read here for a couple months and I did decide to jump into the pool when I saw this place was seriously looking at Boston. I've been watching all the down voting too since it is a hot topic now. I just pointed out a way for the average poster to avoid being dissed by a stalking troll. It's hard to ignore an insult, much easier if you don't have to see it every time you post a reply about the info you find interesting and decide to look at.

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if you really think somebody is getting paid to have conversations with paranoid humans on this subreddit you need a doctor and its not even a joke.

Don't feed the trolls.

There's a button that's better than the ignore button.

It's the report button. I've been using it judiciously. Especially when I see people working hard to post racist anti-jew content in an effort to prove this sub is racist. And holy crap are there a lot of new users working hard to do that.

dude you are really paranoid if you think that is happening on purpose.

"Nobody is racist here, only shills and trolls trying to seduce our absolutely not racist users"

That's not what I said, and there's an entire sub dedicated to making this one look bad.

Go sell it somewhere else, bubba.

there is absolutely no reason to make this sub bad, nobody is taking it seriously anyway. There is 0 motive for someone to do it. Of course if you have paranoidal thoughts you would think its happening but in reality its not.

r/conspiratard exists. Demonstrable fact.

It's agenda is clear, they make no apologies for what they do.

What you think of me personally is inconsequential.

At least we can ALL agree that the world is fucked-up and, as human beings, we have taken a personal interest in finding out the real reasons why. We may not always agree, fellow Redditors, but hopefully y'all (Texan here) just want to make the world a better place for everyone, including the accused AND the victims (in whatever conspiracy you believe in).

I cannot help but feel those who are "in the know" suffer as much from their corruption and knowledge as we do. The systems of the world have been in place for a long time, and people feel trapped on either side of the equation. I'm not crying for the bankers, or the Illuminati, or whatever. I'd just like to point out that, if any of these conspiracies are true, remember that there are "blue-collar" conspirators too, men and women who spend their whole lives toiling in the dark, compromising themselves as human beings, for what amounts to a modest middle-class life or less (I must assume many are rot in foreign prisons for a long time, or meet an early demise). And many times they, too, are programmed (brainwashed, for those who aren't RA Wilson fans) to believe that, despite it all, they are doing the right thing. I'm thinking Special Forces, many CIA agents, and even more "black" agents (perhaps the Boston bombers?). In truth, I could even garner some sympathy for some of the more obviously deluded power-players in history, like GW Bush. I may not forgive them, but I could never know what they had to deal with and experience in such a high level of power and therefore, ultimately, I cannot judge them with all honesty.

Empathy is the greatest human quality. To me, love is a mixture of many emotions, with empathy foremost. If you joined R/conspiracy in order to prove yourself right on some sort of power trip, or to try to excuse your standing in life by blaming others, or, Science forbid, to exercise your racial paranoia, you have no place here. For the rest of y'all, Happy Hunting ! And may you help bring the world the peace it so very much deserves after so much pain

I use the ignore button all the time. I also use the report button for the more foul mouthed trolls. I think these are the best tools this community has.

Or you actually engage other people with different beliefs and opinions than you rather than trying to entirely discredit and disenfranchise them with childish insults. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll never understand how people that label themselves as free-thinkers that aren't "blinded by what we're told" so blatantly and outright refuse to see things any way other than what they've been told to believe by other like minded people. If you're gonna think for yourself, don't jump on every train that rolls through the station.

I can't argue with that but what if the person you're being followed around by has no other beliefs or opinions beyond MSM talking points and turns into a passive/aggressive be-littler of anyone with a different view?

Oh, well they're assholes. I was mostly talking about my experience wherein I've been faced with tons of claims of being a shill and whatnot because I actually thought it would be best to reserve judgment on Waco and Boston until we had more information and tried to introduce science to the Waco talk. I really dig it around here and like reading what everyone has to say but I'd like it more if I could actually get away with posting my thoughts without being personally attacked and accused.

But yeah, those people you mentioned are real dicks.

I don't have an "ignore" option. Is that a reddit enhancement suite feature?

Hmm... might be. I installed it when someone mentioned it shortly after I joined.

I think it is a RES feature. I installed it shortly after joining Reddit and just checked... Ignore is there.

i don't think we should stay arguing with them or even speaking to them, we know who they are.so as madmalloy said it, hit the ignore button.

Im not putting out this info

Do you realize that ignore only works on PMs, not on comments?

Wow, well one thing has become very clear in the last few days, we need a sub for people who believe the mainstream media.

Maybe /r/sheepandzombies ?

Don't bother reading the comments? It used to be my favorite part but until these assholes blow over, I think I will skip it.

I hate using the ignore feature on forums.

I'd rather see it all and decide for myself what I choose to interact with and what I choose to disregard. I don't need an artificial filter to do that for me. It's just a little piece of real estate on a screen that I can chose to move my gaze past. I don't see the big deal.

when I look through /r/conspiracy I dont know if im looking at real conspiracy's or if its a conspiracy against /r/conspiracy it make this sub reddit like all the others.

Wow, thank you, this is the most practical and sensible solution to all the anger and frustration going on here. This post should be mandatory reading for everyone before they enter the sub.

They can still use their fake accounts to bury your submissions and comments. They need to be banned.

And there is no ignore on my page.

Kill yourself?

would you like to know more?

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It's a bot.

I've been looking at your thread and I have to say there's a lot of good info there.

Clicked on Endemoniada's name to "ignore" but don't see button. Please be specific about location of button.

i usw RES and just hover over the name for the option to ignore !

Unlimited. Breadsticks.

That's when you press the ignore button.

awwww poor baby conspiracist is upset are you? poor baby.

Lets ignore everyone who disagreeing with me and look for the truth then? It will be the truth I want to hear not some facts these idiots trying to bring in this subreddit.

Lets ignore everyone and only listen to false flag supporters! That will show them!

Gosh maybe you missed all the bitching that was going on here and the calls for banning posters? Banning won't work because of proxies. I offered a simple solution for those clamoring for something to be done. And thanks for the warm welcome! LOL

I tend to tag people with RES, but it's mostly feminazi's.

Just go to Subbmitt.com and post to the conspiracy section there.

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The people causing the problem are coordinated and they have an agenda -- the destruction of this sub.

No, we don't. Like I said above, disagreement is not the same as being paid to disrupt the common order. If you view disagreement as equivalent to disruption, nothing's going to save you. This is just a meaningless echo chamber, if the only permissible opinion is the one that agrees with the conspiracy theories.

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I'm still unclear why so many folks like you spend so much time caring about the stuff this sub talks about.

Maybe we just want to make the world a better place. Maybe we want to test ourselves, see if we can actually defend our beliefs. The reasons are legion. They're also utterly irrelevant. Either the arguments are sound, or they are not.

This is a conspiracy forum, if you want to debunk, go join a debunker forum and enjoy making fun of people who don't think as you do.

What's the point of separating the two? Surely, if you're a conspiracy theorist, you'd want to know if what you believe is actually true? Right? Or are you saying that people here only believe in conspiracies because it makes them feel good somehow?

People have said to me that what you do here is scientific. Propagating "theories" that only ever support one pre-conceived conclusion and rejecting anyone that questions it is not scientific. In fact, what you do should barely be called theorizing if that's the case.

The sidebar claims this is a "thinking ground", that respects everyone's opinions. It says to "keep an open mind", and that it works towards a "more transparent world". How does ignoring and rejecting anyone who doubts or openly questions the pre-conceived conclusions meet those guidelines?

So you think that spending your time refuting what you already know to be untrue is helping make the world a better place? You probably need to go outside.

No one here is interested in the mainstream view. If they were, they would be discussing it on the main subreddits and not one specifically made for his sort of thing. Again, you can explain it all you want. It just makes you come off as a petulent child who is angry because they aren't getting their way and no one will listen.

So you think that spending your time refuting what you already know to be untrue is helping make the world a better place?

I don't know it's untrue, what I know is that your theories lack solid evidence. That's all. I don't claim to know the truth, and I never have.

No one here is interested in the mainstream view.

That sounds like a very open-minded opinion.

It just makes you come off as a petulent child who is angry because they aren't getting their way and no one will listen.

Certainly no more petulant than all the people here who respond to critical questions with personal attacks. If you can't even defend your theories against common sense and reason, let alone the "mainstream views", what does that say about you?

If you post a theory, I post a reply with critical questions and holes, and you respond by calling me a "shill" or "sheep" or using the word "mainstream" 15 times in one comment, is it I who has to rethink my position? Or you?

Any evidence or just spouting nonsense from you ass?

srsly, so we can keep making new accounts to troll racists like yourself. Single account racist trolling gets boring ya know.

Ah well, a long time ago I and some others tried that on a forum we were running and we discovered the weak point in that idea. Proxies. Hard to block someone when the IP keeps changing.

For an example, this is the only person I have on ignore at this time.

I agree. That's why i'm not particularly bothered by these new people. The trolls are a pain, but easily dismissed. But some people around here needed someone to reground them, without a doubt. It's easy to think you're right about something when you're only talking about it with people who agree with you.

And i agree that people throw the word 'shill' around way too much... If you want to know how ridiculous it is, look at my comment history, and know that i've been called a shill on more than one occasion...

So you think that spending your time refuting what you already know to be untrue is helping make the world a better place? You probably need to go outside.

No one here is interested in the mainstream view. If they were, they would be discussing it on the main subreddits and not one specifically made for his sort of thing. Again, you can explain it all you want. It just makes you come off as a petulent child who is angry because they aren't getting their way and no one will listen.

I demand he be banned for violating the sidebar. Your move mods.

What about the sidebar says that you can demand answers from people?

really now