Every time I heard about the FBI giving a terrorist fake bombs and arresting them it was in the back of my head that one of these times, someone would slip through the cracks and succeed. Scary shit that they have to create problems on their own for them to deal with if true.

1993 WTC bombing, the bomb builder was on the FBI payroll, FOIA taped phone recordings between the FBI handler and the bomb builder, has the perp saying he will lose the bomb if he doesn't get paid properly, he didn't, the bomb went off at the WTC.

Its been rightly said that the 93 WTC plotters could not have built a big bomb without being supplied (by the FBI) the ex Egyptian military guy to build their bomb.

According to informant Emad Salem, this is basically what transpired during the 1993 WTC bombing.

Clearly these bombs were not faked. If the FBI was involved in a COINTELPRO like operation, the intention was for them to explode. That's how real false flag terror attacks work.

This theory that they were patsies and "switched" the bombs is pretty retarded, its like a fairy tale to explain FBI involvement in their lives, and yet they are stupid enough not to be monitoring them after "giving them a fake bomb."

Please. I wouldn't doubt that FBI was involved, but its obvious as hell that they were intentionally detonating explosives. That, after all, is how you sway popular opinion.

Remember Orwell. This isn't a new idea.

Or, consider that this was a sting operation, much like the one's involving Occupy and Chicago's Wrigly Field, except a third party, perhaps with access to FBI intelligence, was aware of the sting... and stepped in planting real explosives using a completely separate group of highly trained people (maybe the ones that looked like Seals??) in order to frame the FBI and Tamerlan.

Omg this is the first time I've seen a post try to call out another post only to look completely retarded. So mister false flag expert, what do false flags look like? You wouldn't be able to tell unless you were actually in on it, so don't sit there with a chip on your shoulder thinking you havr some super armchair detective power. OPs theory is a lot more sane, rational, and thought out than anything you said.

Sanity and rationality are two things you shouldn't kindly assume were used when it comes to a false flag attack.

The amount of planning that actually goes into any type of operation would require some type of sanity and rational reason, maybe not in our definition of the two words but in the organizations planning these suspected false flag events definitions.

It does sound plausible. So plausible in fact it might actually be true. (no joke)

EDIT: Just want to say, its the best theory I've read.

No it's not plausible. Everything we know says Dzhokar was hiding in plain site after Monday. He went to class, went out with friends, etc. If the FBI really knew who they were, why did it take until Thueaday night to find them? Why didn't they just go to their house on Monday, knowing exactly who they were. Why did the police only find him on accident, when they committed other crimes?

Also, if they really wanted to screw over the FBI and embarass them, why not tell their story on Wed. or Thursday? Also, why would FBI take him alive, knowing that he has a story that exposes them?

Wayyyy too many problems

Only speaking with the context of this theory: they wouldn't want to hustle in. There would need to be the appearance of an investigation. Again, contriving this much would take even more considerable judgement than the conspirators had previously employed. There is the instance where an individual was being prepped by the FBI, communicated that concern (I believe to someone at the Guardian), and was "busted" shortly after that communication.

I just don't think it makes sense, with how sloppy they would have to be with some aspects of this, but then they are perfectly on point in the planning out of other aspects like catching them. It just doesn't add up to the FBI being behind it, or knowing about it to me.

You can find answers to all these questions in my other comments.

Also, why would FBI take him alive

Apparently he's unable to speak due to being shot in the throat. It'll be interesting to see how he'll be involved in any related court cases (if there is a court case).

No its not. You need knowledge how to make these bombs, then you need to acquire the materials, put them together, make a bullet proof plan to switch the fake bombs with real, using the same backpacks and do it all in a short period of time all under the watchful eye of the FBI.

Second of all you can't just convince someone to go bomb stuff in a matter of days, that is why the FBI fake terror plots took month and years to execute.

Third why would they put bombs in a place that will hurt innocent people? The younger brother was aware of false flag operations, was aware of the government history, why wouldn't he put bombs in some government agency, in front of congress, in some politicians house?

Definitely does sound plausible.

The one major flaw in your theory is how the brothers escaped and were not arrested right then and there.

If anything that leads credence to my theory. When the plan fails and chaos breaks out. That momentary confusion of "oh shit we fucked up, WTF just happened" gave them a very brief window to slip out from the scene. If they arrested them right then and there people would have asked more questions. Like "how did you identify and respond to them so quickly?" "Did you know it was them beforehand?" and other things of that nature. If the plan went accordingly arresting them on the spot makes sense because they could proudly say they were watching them and foiled their attempt at terror. But when real bombs went off they said "well fuck we can't get them now or people will know our involvement in this sting that went wrong and blame us for letting it happen". So instead they spent the next few days getting the story straight and then began pursuing them.

That does not make your theory more likely, just weakens mine. It is true the FBI would not necessarily make an arrest. The fact there was not an arrest does not make your theory more likely. It is only the case that if the FBI knew their ID and were trailing them, that they would be more likely to arrest than had they not known their ID.

Further, considering that the brothers went back home and were not apprehended there is definitely another cross against your theory. They already had the older brother on their radar. A brief review of the surveillance videos would have revealed his presence at the bombing within hours after the attack. The FBI did come out publicly with their knowledge of his existence, as that knowledge would have been made public if he was brought in alive. If the FBI knew he bombed the race, had his ID on their radar, and surveillance videos of his presence at the scene, then there is no reason why the FBI would play theatrics for a few days and allow even more casualties. They had the evidence and facts necessary to make an arrest within hours of the attack.

The fact that it played out the way it did makes it far more likely that the FBI did not know it was him.

The Feds needed a few days to get their story straight and cover their tracks. The biggest fear they have right now is people finding out they were involved in this botched sting. Once they had their new narrative straight after a few days they issued the photos and video of the bombers to the public who up to that point were completely distracted looking at other potential suspects.

Your argument is falling apart. You now rely on the assumption that the delay in arrest is due to a coverup. It is more likely they did not know their ID.

agreed, you have to take into account who you're talking about when you say "they".. In a false flag attack it would be rediculous to let everyone know what the plan was, there would be no way to stop information from leaking, it being so immoral and all. I doubt most if any of the agents/officers present at the event would have been briefed on what was actually going to happen. The people who would know about the plans would be up top and removed from the actual event, making the escape after the bombing inevitable.

Our government is already known to have been watching him. He was on numerous lists. Facial recognition software would have identified them within 24 hours. But they waited 3 days to alert the public. Is that not raising red flags for you?

I like your theory, however part of me thinks the FBI/CIA (whoever) wouldn't need time to whitewash their story. One would think they would have contingency plans for anything that didn't go according to plan. My biggest question, (as I was following it live on Twitter, police scanners and CNN), is about the third bomb. Police admitted live on CNN that there was a third bomb that they detonated, yet we have no video footage of that bomb being placed. Who placed it and when?

Maybe the third bomb was the original dummy bombs that they left behind somewhere when they made the switch. I've also wondered about that 3rd bomb as I was listening to the scanners as well. They described its detonation as more of a "flash fire" and not an explosion. Which would fit with how a dummy bomb may go off. I'll look more into it.

That's possible as well...

I don't know man, seems like it would have been very easy to just grab them and say 'we saw them do it'- then pull out the video/pictures that back it up. Cops arrest people every day because they see them do illegal stuff- it doesn't even have to be on video.

Please edit this and add paragraphs.

I'm on my iPhone. I will if I have a chance to get to a computer. I'm not really an English major all of this was just coming fluidly from my head. I've been piecing it all together until I found something that made since. I apologize if its difficult to read.

Right, FBI says "Where's a good place to end this plot and arrest the plotters ? How about a public place, thousands of innocent people around, on national TV ? Sure, let's do the take-down there, what could go wrong ?"

This theory fails the test of common sense.

If the Feds believed they had the situation under control and there was only supposed to be a detonation of dummy explosives like I theorized, then yes. Of course they would want to make a spectacle out of it. So the American people would see with their own eyes that the liberties we have given up were worth it for our safety. The public would have seen the sting operations live for the first time. A perfect opportunity to sway everyone into allowing a bigger defense budget, the willing erosion of our civil liberties, a renewed disdain culturally toward Muslims, and an excuse to enter a new war.

dromoe, no, that's crazy. FBI would want a take-down in the safest, most controlled situation possible. If they wanted publicity, videotape it and publicize it later. But deliberately arresting people in a chaotic situation at the finish line of the marathon, with possibility of civilians in the way or getting shot, hundreds of escape routes, hundreds of possible hostages ? No law-enforcement would be crazy enough to CHOOSE to do that.

But that's his point.. there weren't dummy explosions, so why would they still make a big deal out of it? You walked around his question (and other questions that have a valid point)

He was asking why would they choose the Boston Marathon as a place to have a sting operation. I explained why.

After the explosions went of they just had to modify their narrative, which they have done, and they can still get the same point across. Only with actual explosions going off they can't hail themselves as saviors because they failed. So they still get the anti-Muslim rhetoric, fuel for a new war, and policies to strip us of more civil liberties. Not everything they wanted but their working with what they have now.

Rather than trying to come up with a way to explain the facts as a conspiracy, shouldn't people just be trying to objectively evaluate the facts?

Also, the problem that I think spoils the thrust of this theory is that it does not explain the huge time lag in identifying the suspects or the actions of the suspects themselves in not publicizing their rationale, either prior to the attacks or afterwords during that time lag. If they were going to put their lives on the line in order to make a statement against a very specific set of FBI actions, wouldn't it only make sense to actually tell the public about those actions? After all, if the FBI were really setting them up, they could only assume that the FBI would have targeted them immediately after the attack (which didn't happen), and that, if they were killed during capture they would never again have an opportunity to tell the story, thus only undermining the rationale of striking a the FBI. Doesn't seem to add up to me.

This assumes that the Tsarnaevs were good people caught in a bad situation. Tamerlan was already radicalized by the point of the initial bombing. He hated America and everything it stood for. His brother joined because he saw what our government was capable of and was angered that they were setting up his brother.

The Feds didn't want to capture them alive. Which is why Tamerlan is dead and they put hundreds of rounds into the boat his unarmed younger brother was hiding in. Unfortunately for them he made it out alive. And I'm sure during the period where he was not Miranda'd they told him if he ever spoke of the FBIs involvement bad things would happen to everyone he loves, like his niece and his uncle.

Also the surviving brother has no physical proof of FBI involvement an they know this. Even if he were to come out and publicize his information, which he literally can't do right now, who would believe him? Especially without evidence. The Feds could easily spin the story that his claims are made up and just the fabrication of an American hating Muslim. After all he did plant a bomb that did kill people. He is a murder and a terrorist at this point. Any claims he makes will be easily discredited and discarded.

However if given the opportunity to get the message out and he does. I will not dismiss it. I will still think he deserves to die for what he did. And I will know that my theory had validity.

Quite the imagination on this one.

Thank you

The only thing that I assumed was the scenario you suggested: that the Tsarnaevs went through with the attack in order to send a message about the FBI's alleged use of muslim patsies.

And, while, I appreciate the thought and imagination you are putting into this, I don't think you really deal with the time lag issue at all--at least not convincingly. Why would the FBI, which would have had intimate knowledge of the Tsarnaev's involvement in your scenario, give the brothers 3 unmolested days to do as they pleased following the attack? And, to add to that, why would the Tsarnaevs in your scenario hang around boston in plain sight that whole time if they knew the FBI knew exactly who they were and would want to kill them?

It seems to me that the actions of both the Tsarnaevs and the FBI are much more consistent with the Tsarnaevs assuming they could carry-out the attack anonymously and with the FBI having no real material knowledge of their involvement for several days. The FBI also had tons of chances to kill the little brother during the boat stand-off. The local police seem to be the ones who initiated that crazy bullet barrage (which, for the record, I believe was reckless and uncalled for to an extent where someone ought to be fired), but it was the FBI hostage rescue team that led the boat raid. They could have killed him easily during that standoff without anyone questioning it.

The FBI couldn't kill johar after his parents cried conspiracy all over the news. At that point they has to get him alive so the public would ask less questions. The local police did unload on the boat and had johar been killed that would have been fine. They could work with it. Having him alive however isn't bad either. Since they didn't Miranda him at first they had free reign to tell him anything and threaten him with anything off the record. They are probably telling johar that he should just take the wrap for it since he did in fact plant real explosives killing real people. Therefore he is a murderer and terrorist at this point. No way out of that. Then explain to him that if he ever speaks of the FBI involvement they will discredit him and label his whole family terrorists. Interesting that they have wire taps now surfacing with the mother speaking of jihad. Also I retesting that the parents were about to leave for the US and then "changed their minds". The Feds have have johar in a corner now. His parents aren't any safer where they are right now either. Putin is in the in crowd. One call from the Feds to cash in a favor and jahars parent cease to be.

But in your scenario it is the FBI themselves who allowed the Tsarnaev family more than enough time to comment on the Tsarnaev brothers' involvement. Your theory requires that both the FBI and the Tsarnaev brothers be irrational. The FBI is irrational for not easily killing or capturing the Tsarnaevs long before anyone but them knew of their involvement (remember, it was the FBI that released their pictures to the world before they were found...), and the Tsarnaevs are irrational for not using the attacks, which garnered the attention of the entire country, as a stage to take down the FBI, which they could have easily done by presenting their case online in any of several forums. They are further irrational for just hanging around Boston waiting for the FBI to kill or capture them.

The Tsarnaevs didn't care about exposing the FBI to the public. They wanted turn their operation upside down. Tamerlan wanted to make the Feds feel like the blood was on their hands. That it was the Feds fault those Americans were harmed. The attack was personal. He was angry that our government spent years manipulating him into a radical Muslim just so they could lock him up forever. He wanted to expose the Feds to themselves. This is most likely how he justified it to Jahar as well.

You are right though. The brothers did just hang out and act normal the days after the explosion. Why would they do that? That isn't typical behavior for someone that just committed a terrorist act. When the entire country is looking for the bombers. Every dept in our federal government, Local police, Internet vigilantes, etc. Only someone that thought they had leverage would act this way. And at first they thought they did.

You are now defining the Tsarnaevs' motives in such a ludicrously narrow way so that it could fit your theory that you are making it even more difficult to reconcile it with the actual events we know took place. Why wouldn't they want to expose the plot to the public? Accepting your theory of the FBI's involvement in the bombings, the brothers had an historic opportunity to take down the entire leadership structure at the agency and forever affect its political oversight. And you're telling me their plot was for revenge on the FBI but they just overlooked that option or chose not to take it?

And what leverage did they have? They had to know from the minute they double-crossed the FBI, that the FBI would target them. It was a matter of when, not if. Moreover, assuming they had some leverage, what changed on Thursday that prompted the FBI to release their pictures and begin the pursuit in earnest? In fact, why would the FBI even begin the pursuit by releasing the pictures like that? You are saying the FBI was closely monitoring them. It would have been very easy for the FBI to just tell the public afterwords that they had been able to match Tamerlan's passport photo with the scene footage and that they swiftly moved in to capture the suspects, who then were killed in a fire fight. No one would have questioned that.

Again, you are straining to get over the rationality hurdles, and it's still not working.

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It was before. One of the parents was quoted as saying that "if the police kill Jahar and he is not captured alive, I will know this is a conspiracy"

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http://ftp.dailypaul.com/282564/if-they-kill-my-second-child-i-will-know-that-it-is-an-inside-job

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The Feds kept an eye on them for those 3 days. The brothers weren't really hiding. It wasn't until their pictures were released to the news that the brothers started phase 2.

Well there is one huge gaping whole in this theory - the Tsarnaevs didn't flee - they stuck around in town without even any preparation to flee - they didn't even think to have any money on hand.

I have responded with an explanation to this in a different comment. Please read the whole thread and see if you can find the answer to that question.

OP, broken into paragraphs:

The FBI has been known to conduct terrorism stings in the days since 9/11. A set up where someone they suspect could be capable of an attack is radicalized. Usually the sting will consist of an insider that befriends their suspect and coaxes them into some form of extremism. Once they feel their suspect is radicalized they will set up a fake terrorist attack and have the suspect carry it out. The suspect unknowingly has fake explosives and once they are planted the feds move in and bust the perpetrators. These operations have been conducted steadily and without fail. Until now.

My theory is that Tamerlan was one of their suspects. At some point he appeared on a watch list most likely for his conversion into the Muslim religion. Using an agent named “Misha” the feds began the process of radicalizing Tamerlan. It was working. Everything was going as planned. Over the years Tamerlan became more and more fundamentalist in his beliefs believing muhajideen was the only answer. It was time.

The plan was simple, they were to provide dummy explosives through a Saudi Nationalist (on the payroll) to Tamerlan. Tamerlan, believing the explosives were real, was to bring them to the Boston Marathon and set them off at the designated points. These dummy bombs were made to look realistic but would have only made a bright flash and produce smoke. Once they were detonated the feds were going to move in and arrest Tamerlan.

They had everyone in place. Homeland security, private military contractors, bomb sniffing dogs, etc. Which is exactly why 1 minute before the bomb went off the Boston Globe and members of FBI began to announce a drill. Because that’s what they thought it would look like. Just a drill. The bombs were supposed to just make a big flash and a puff of smoke. Then Tamerlan would be arrested and over the next few days the feds could taut about how they foiled another terrorist attack based off their work and surveillance networks.

But as we know, that’s not what happened. Little did the feds know days before the attack took place Tamerlan got wise. He suspected something was amiss. He realized he was a part of a sting. Knowing this he went to his brother and explained his situation. At this point though Tamerlan had already been radicalized and harbored bad feelings toward the west and their domestic policies. Knowing his brother felt some disdain as well and was aware of false flag attacks in the country Tamerlan convinced him to join him in the ultimate slap in the face.

He told Dzhokhar that the feds were going to give him dummy bombs but they were going to replace them with real ones. The plan was to show the imperialist west that they cannot use Muslims as pawns in their games. This was a statement. So they met with the Saudi nationalist. They got the bombs. They made the switch. Then when it was time they set them. However when detonation occurred it wasn’t just a puff of smoke. There wasn’t just a flash. What their was, was every federal organization involved in the sting standing there with their dick in their hands.

The Tsarnaevs used this brief window of confusion to make their escape. What has played out since then is a game of cat and mouse, cloak and dagger. The feds are scrambling to cover up the biggest mistake in the organizations history. One that would make the people of this country question everything they know about our government and how they conduct themselves. And we are watching it all unfold in real time.

How does this explain the FBI waiting to release their pictures and the shoot out car chase in Watertown?

The Feds are scrambling to cover up their involvement. That's why they delayed releasing the pictures in order to contain and destroy as much info as possible they had about the suspects before it was made public.

The ensuing car chase and shoot out was part of the botched getaway attempt by the Tsarnaev brothers. Their plan was to detonate more explosives in NY but the car they hijacked was almost out of gas. When they stopped to get gas their hostage made a break for it which led to the manhunt, shoot out, and police chases.

Then why is the FBI openly admitting that they had previous information and contact with one of the suspects? If they were truly destroying information related to their involvement wouldn't they have not released that information?

By the way I'm not trying to be a dick. Just trying to fill in some of the holes here.

They only released that information after Russia came out and said "We told you about this guy a long time ago".

Because those are public records that would have been found in time. Ones that can't be erased due to the paper trail and FOIA. So their story for now is that they "briefly" looked into him in 2011 but then he was cleared from their watch list. Even though some insider statements are saying they had continued interaction with Tameralan since 2005 through the present. There is just no paper trail to prove that because these sting operations fall under classified documents that pertain to homeland security. Therefore cannot be subpoenaed due to national security. No paper trail. No evidence. No official documents at this time can tie the Feds to a sting operation. Which is why their remaining assets are trying to be swept under the rug and forgotten. Like "Misha" and the Saudi Nationalist.

Then why is the FBI openly admitting that they had previous information and contact with one of the suspects?

They initially didn't. Anyone that actually taken ten seconds to do some reading would realize that.

If they were truly destroying information related to their involvement wouldn't they have not released that information?

Once questioned further, they said that they had a brief search of the suspect in 2011 (?). However, that turned out to be a fallacy as well and in came to the light that not only had they had begun an investigation into Tsarnaev but they had tracked both him and his family, were informed by Russian intelligence, had been placed on 2 watch lists, and that's just the beginning.

Good question, someone will say because it could taint the possible jury pool which is true, but you'd think of all the units with dashcams involved, one tangible tidbit could be released.

One flaw, the feds could have easily found Dzhokhar after the event. Unless his post-marathon tweets are fake, he was easily traceable at that point by using triangulation, etc.

They needed to wait. They needed time to create a new narrative as the original one they had planned went out the window when real bombs exploded. It's important they cover their tracks before people and the media have access to important information.

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The FBI knew who they were. They were both on a watch list.

I agree that this could be true...but I also disagree because it's ridiculous.

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So they went after two guys that looked like their suspects, and these supposedly innocent guys threw pressure cooker bombs and shot at police? Did they force these innocent guys to shoot the MIT police officer too?

I have seen no evidence that they shot the MIT officer

Is there any motive too? It makes it sounds like they snuck up on him while he was sitting in his cruiser. The criminal complaint fails to mention this as well.

the possible motive I have seen bandied about is that they wanted his gun. apparently it was apparent they had try to remove it from the holster, but were unable to do so due to a holster lock.

I've thought about this too, but I just don't think it holds up because if it were that simple then they would've at least mentioned to friends and family that they were witnesses to the bombing, but not even their mother is reporting that they said anything to her about being near the explosions.

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• the brothers thought they could get away with it. Tamerlan was convinced that the feds wouldn't finger them because it would be exposing themselves. They knew the Feds were fully aware of who they were and therefore would not allow them to leave the country. So they acted natural and waited for the Feds next move. Hoping they would pin it on someone else to sweep it under the rug. Once the brothers realized they weren't getting off Scott free they hatched phase 2 of their plan which was poorly executed and led to ones death and the others arrest.

-Saudi's act outside of our laws. Every now and then they are called on to do favors for our government in exchange for getting away with all the stuff they do in their country. Just like all the Saudi involvement in 9/11, in which no one was ever arrested. The Feds have an agreement with them. Which is why Obama met with the Saudi minister guy, Michelle visited the nationalist in the hospital, and he was quickly escorted out of our country. This nationalist guy has a 32B status. Which means he is already proven to have connections to terrorism. However that was lifted shortly before he was deported from our country.

[PS- I'm not getting the 32B thing from Glenn Beck. I'm getting it from the sources he obtained it from. The information was already out there before he made his "statement". Fuck Glenn Beck.]

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Yes please explain to me how someone self radicalizes with a girlfriend(who works 70-80 hours a week) and a baby(who he took care of since his girlfriend was at work all the damn time).

IMO the brothers are completely innocent. After all the lies and bullshit that has come out, to point the finger at the brother's is ridiculous.

Osama bin Laden was Saudi we all know what happened to him.

Nothing happened to him until Omar Sheikh killed him.

1) if you think the Tsarnaev brothers are innocent then I don't know what to tell you. Witnesses saw them place the bomb. The guy that got carjacked heard them confess. There are pictures of them in a gunfight with police. They are guilty.

Yes I do believe in Tamerlans twisted thought process that he thought he could get away with it once he double crossed them. He didn't think the Feds would come for them because it would expose themselves. When they did come for him and his brother you can tell by their amateurish plot to attack New York and the subsequent aftermath that he wasn't the brightest individual. Johar was only involved because he loved his brother and didn't trust the government. But it's too late for him now. The Feds have their narrative.

2) do some research into shadiness that Saudis have been involved with and gotten away with. There are many with proven ties to terrorist organizations yet their government and our government does nothing. Bin Laden was only killed once he was no longer useful. He was an operative that was trained by the CIA and was always an asset. That's why he was allowed to live out the remainder of his life. Once his health deteriorated and his presence was no longer influential they disposed of him.

1) if you think the Tsarnaev brothers are innocent then I don't know what to tell you. Witnesses saw them place the bomb. The guy that got carjacked heard them confess. There are pictures of them in a gunfight with police. They are guilty.

Yes I do believe in Tamerlans twisted thought process that he thought he could get away with it once he double crossed them. He didn't think the Feds would come for them because it would expose themselves. When they did come for him and his brother you can tell by their amateurish plot to attack New York and the subsequent aftermath that he wasn't the brightest individual. Johar was only involved because he loved his brother and didn't trust the government. But it's too late for him now. The Feds have their narrative.

2) do some research into shadiness that Saudis have been involved with and gotten away with. There are many with proven ties to terrorist organizations yet their government and our government does nothing. Bin Laden was only killed once he was no longer useful. He was an operative that was trained by the CIA and was always an asset. That's why he was allowed to live out the remainder of his life. Once his health deteriorated and his presence was no longer influential they disposed of him. And people with 32B statuses don't just get cleared over night. It is one of the highest designations you can label a terrorist with. It means they have proven direct ties to terrorism. Yet within 24 hours of his "questioning" and a visit with Michelle Obama his status was cleared and he was deported. That is some shady shot right there.

If you have a link for the 32B thing that would be appreciated (I Google but couldn't find anything). That's pretty interesting info given that Michelle visited him in the hospital.

I don't like any of these theories around the Boston Marathon. They all seem incredibly insane and way far fetched; actually, not seem but are.

There's an upside to this, the Government is getting flak. People are learning to distrust our Government albeit for falsified reasons. Even so, it's a step in the right direction. So as much as I hate this disinformation, I know it's beneficial towards our future individual liberties in a very small way.

I wish people would get upset and conspire against the absolutely bullshit taxes we put up. Or, rebel against the unjust wages we're paid and the huge, technically illegal, chunk of cash the Government takes from our hard work. What about Corporations being considered a person; where's the large discussions about that? A Government does not award a non-living entity the rights of a human being without a conspiracy in place.

I'm ranting so I'll end it here. I've seen so much shit about the Boston Marathon here it's ridiculous. So much discussion on what ifs and manufactured bullshit claims. Why can't we put that same effort and discussion into issues that exist right now? Maybe that way some change could happen for once.

They would have ran a lot sooner if this were the case I would think...otber than that I like the theory.

They thought they had the Feds by the balls. They didn't think the FBI would finger them because it would draw attention to the botched sting. The brothers figured at first they got away because if they went down the Feds went down with them. Which explains how casually they acted in the days after the bombings. But once the pictures of them were released the brothers abandoned social media, went underground, and planned their next attack. They knew once their pictures hit the news that the Feds found a way to cover their tracks and that it was time for a plan B. which is why every aspect of the initial bombing was done professionally and calculated but the ensuing escape and plot on New York was amateur, rushed, and ultimately failed. Because it was a spontaneous reaction with almost no forethought.

[deleted]

I'll take what dromoe is smoking.

[deleted]

Yeah... that's the part that doesn't make sense at all. And he didn't even attempt to hide himself at the race like his brother. Not sure whether people have any theories about that...

Well, Dzho smoked a lot of pot so his thinking might not have been entirely clear. And the fact that some suspect Tamerlane of killing one of his friends for supplying Dzho with pot might have convinced Dzho to go along with whatever Tamerlane wanted from him.

For his brother. I know the lengths people will go through for family. And when your brother approaches you saying the American government, which they weren't big fans of in the first place, was setting him up to be labeled as a terrorist and without his help he would die he felt obligated to help. No matter the cost. It was an attack directly at the core of our terrorism policy. It was a statement to the FBI. Tamerlan probably assured his younger brother they would get away with it. Tamerlan was the evil one. A product of a flawed system. But he had an air about him. He was very charismatic. Jahar was impressionable and young. He loved his brother too much. He made the wrong decision. Now people are dead. His brother is dead. And he will be a murderer and terrorist from now till the day he dies.

Good point... wish I saw this before I wrote my reply

Let's say that's true. He goes to his brother and asks for help because he was being set up. Ok. But how would replacing fake bombs for real ones solve the situation exactly? In other words he says Hi Dzho, i'm in shit. Why don't you go with me into even deeper shit and murder or badly injure some inocent people on the way there which will probably end with both of us dead. Don't forget Jahar wasn't stupid. I believe he would do things to protect his brother, but not like that. No way. If anything he would help him escape usa or something.

Tamerlan explained that he couldn't leave. They wouldn't let that happen. He knew if he planted the dummy bombs he would go to Guantanamo for life. So he convinced jahar the only way was to get them at their own game and if that meant innocent people had to die to prove a point it's what had to happen. He convinced jahar that America was evil and that the government was going to ruin their family. So if they were to be labeled terrorists. They might as well become them.

Nope. Only Tamerlan was labeled terrorist. According to your theory that is. Why drag his younger brother into this? Why attack civilians and not feds if he wanted revenge? Why not immediately run and make as much damage as possible if they knew fbi already knows who they are. No, sorry. Too many holes. Makes a lot less sense than the official story. I do however think we should discuss any theory no matter how far fetched and this one made me think. What if it was basically just a drill that went wrog?

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The point wasn't made to us the people. It was a personal vendetta with our government. They didn't care about us or what we think.

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they would have taken responsibility and explained their actions, at least anonymously

They were supposed to fly to Russia within days of their capture by authorities. They might have been waiting until then to poke Uncle Sam.

I know the lengths people will go through for family.

Especially when your family member slits his best friend's throat for supplying you with pot (it's a theory, not proven).

http://www.businessinsider.com/murder-of-brendan-mess-the-best-friend-of-boston-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev-2013-4

So there was a Saudi National just sitting around with multiple pressure cooker bombs and pipe bombs, waiting for someone who wanted to use them? That seems like the biggest gap in your theory.

No there was a Saudi national that was given dummy bombs by the Feds to give to the Tsarnaevs. They needed someone with proven ties to terrorism as to not raise suspicion with Tamerlan. The Saudi made a deal with our government for this sting operation.

That's why when the explosions happened he was the first person they arrested and questioned. They asked him "what happened they were supposed to be dummy bombs like we provided?" Once the Saudi explained to them that he did in fact give dummies to the Tsarnaevs, as told to do,they cleared him and got him out of the country.

So where did they get the real bombs from? They made them in just a few days time? Like I said, this is the biggest gap in your theory. Why would they even go through some guy they didn't know and risk being caught in the FBI net, if they were perfectly capable of creating their own bombs?

I think once Tamerlan found out the Feds were pulling a sting, and he hatched his plan for revenge, he did a pretty simple google search and found out how to make his own. Not too difficult to find instructions online. That's a pretty basic bomb to make. Unless of course legislation comes out now limiting the sale of black powder.

The main drawback of your theory is that you rely a lot on what the media has reported about the incident and about the brothers. And it should be pretty clear to you by now that the media has presented a lot of conflicting stories.

this is critical thinking. something you will not see on mainstream news, and something they don't want you to be capable of.

So you've already made up your mind that this is a conspiracy, and are now working backwards to create a theory that fits that conclusion? Explains a lot about this subreddit...

While this does seem reasonable, I'm still pretty sold on the fact they didn't do it. They both in a number of pictures are clearly holding their backpacks after the bomb exploded (in the case of the younger brother he is only positioned like he is still holding a bag obscured by someone, but his pose doesn't make sense to me otherwise). And if you look at the video Anonymous posted showing Mario Connor Drive(not positive but this is what it sounds like in robo-voice) Jr., his backpack is an IDENTICAL match for the one with the bomb. Upon closer inspection even the Craft Men do not have a perfect match, this Mario man however does. As yet to be explained as well is the purse or brown bag bomb set off by the mail box that toppled the fence. I believe this entire thing is a multi step plan to build fear, redirect it, build fear, etc. or some domestic extremist group was able to plan a bombing around what they knew was an FBI entrapment operation. Too many things about the brothers don't make sense. Even with your theory, as rational as it sounds, things don't quite add up.

They both in a number of pictures are clearly holding their backpacks after the bomb exploded

Please show me the pictures where they clearly still have their backpacks after the bombs went off.

They both in a number of pictures are clearly holding their backpacks after the bomb exploded

Can you post those?

They threw out explosives in pressure cookers during the shootout and people saw them and took pictures and even watched the little robot dude inspect them til 5am.....I'm pretty sure that was real and not set up. Of course they did it.

I have yet to see any of this, as well, that doesn't necessarily prove anything to me but two people freaking out after being accused of an act of terrorism and running.

You mean the man with red shirt and blue jacket on? That pack did match the alleged bomb pack and he was holding it in a suspicious manner as well in one of the photos. In fact he looked the most suspicious of everyone, then again looks can be deceiving.

Wouldn't it be awesome if Anon turned out to be run 100% by the government too? That would all make for an awesome plan to control the masses. What if it's all mind control brainwashing propaganda? All those Anon videos are reminiscent of Nazi propaganda. Look what happened with the Germans...brainwashed, controlled, they all went bananas for that bastard Hitler. If you can read between the lines you will follow along just fine with where I'm going with this. Certainly would make for a good movie....

I've always considered this an option, but you can never be sure.

You manufacture the idea that the explosives were not real from the Feds for what reason? Everything else in the story sounds plausible, but why insinuate that they did not provide him with real explosives?

The way these stings usually work, is the actual product is sold, and the sting happens well before the "actual planned event." They just need to get them to "buy" the shit with intent, not to use it. It would never go as far as seconds before the intended target.

Meanwhile, the entire situation looks much more like a coerced false flag attack, one that was specifically intended to cause fear in the population, and further crackdown on civil liberties related to close combat weaponry.

This was done on purpose, with an agenda.

This is a great post. Nice job.

A couple comments:

If your theory is true, and fake bombs instead of real bombs were supposed to be detonated, wouldn't that still be pretty bad for the FBI? Still seems like peoples' lives are endangered, and the public would be angry.

Didn't this same thing happen in the '93 bombing of the World Trade Center when a real bomb was substituted for a fake bomb? Although, in that attack, the switch was supposedly done by the FBI themselves.

The fake bombs wouldn't have exploded. They would have looked more like a smoke bomb going off. That would have been the signal to move in and make the arrest. It would have proved that Tamerlan was willing to go through with a terrorist attack.

In my theory it is very possible that an inside agent working with TPTB may have possibly tipped off Tamerlan to the sting so as to convince him to make the switch for real explosives.

Actually your theory makes more sense than what actually happened. It seems like TPTB were almost as confused about what was going on as we were, like they were tricked ... definitely not what they would want if we're supposed to believe the same old story and point the finger at the terrorists.

It seems like a lot more people took a double-take this time, like they have a feeling something's just not right about the official story. It kind of reminds me of the deja vu scene in The Matrix.

There's currently a thread in r/politics (about someone verbally attacking the Boston Infowars reporter) in which everyone's attacking the notion of questioning the official story of the event. I wish some of you savvy r/conspiracy folks would go over there and gently spread some information and perspective. The official story here has more holes than swiss cheese.

Link them here. I'll be willing to engage in discourse with anyone. Even trolls.

[EDIT: but I agree that infowars and is comprised mostly of extremists and idiots. They hurt the flow of information more than they help it. I'm not a fan of Alex Jones]

if it was a sting using dummy explosives, they would've arrested them earlier. It was more likely a drill that was allowed to go live.

If the Feds primary intention was to use the event as a publicity stunt I don’t think they would have used dummy explosives- even smoke/flash non-lethal, like you describe. If all had gone according to plan, by your theory, the fake bombs would have been planted, a fake, but observable, non-lethal, pyrotechnic would have gone off in front of the cameras, the terrorists would have been arrested on site and the feds would be the big hero’s.

The feds could have gotten away with this without the risk of using a pyrotechnic- they could have had him place a bag with silly putty ‘c-4’ and there would never have been a risk and they could have caught another terrorist in a honeypot, like the other set ups we have. Had they gone through with your theory they could be sued by someone who got smoke in their eye or suffered emotional damage- the risk would have been way too high for simple publicity.

Feds would not have allowed a pyrotechnic to go off, even non-lethal, if they wanted to take credit for stopping it via honeypot.

No way. There were guard rails across the street and twisted around stuff. No matter what, those bombs were real and did real damage.

I don't necessarily agree but it does seem like Tamerlan is the one who was "in the know", hence why he's dead. But I would question why they wouldn't go ahead and kill Dzokhar as well. This theory isn't entirely new. People have thrown out the "Double Agents" and switched dummy bomb ideas.

I can't see this as being an oversight though. Too much leading up to it, and the situation was taken advantage of to the extent that it seems like this was a test.

If this whole idea of the FBI radicalizing people us true, it's sick. It's sick that they are able to pick and choose innocent people and infect their minds, moulding them into who they want then to be, then punishing the individual when they follow through with it. As historical events and psychological studies gave shown us, human beings are easily manipulated. In a way, it's like the FBI is putting on their own Milgrim or Stanford prison experiments, except that people's lives are being ruined as a result.

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So does the op deliver?

Absolutely relevant. <--- This article was published only a few months ago in Rolling Stone. Also, this.

I have no opinion on the Boston event but would put nothing past the FBI.

These dummy bombs were made to look realistic but would have only made a bright flash and produce smoke.

There is no need for them to take it that far. As soon as he demonstrated a willingness to do such an attack and touched or collected the ‘explosives’ that would be enough for an arrest and incarc>These dummy bombs were made to look realistic but would have only made a bright flash and produce smoke.

There is no need for them to take it that far. As soon as he demonstrated a willingness to do such an attack and touched or collected the ‘explosives’ that would be enough for an arrest and incarceration. They do not usually allow the attack to take place but arrest them prior to committing it. eration. They do not usually allow the attack to take place but arrest them prior to committing it.

Lol. This is ridiculous.

If they told the public it was a drill, then used fake bombs, why would an arrest need to be made?

Except no one announced a drill a minute before the explosions.

This same scenario played out with the FBI in Portland except it was just one guy, a tree lighting ceremony, and a dummy truck bomb. This guy didn't switch the bomb and FBI foiled a terror plot. possible and probable.

tl;dr: the feds are not evil, this was an innocent sting operation. two children tricked them into turning a fake sting with fake explosives into a national tragedy, because they are smarter than the government.

the feds covered it up because they don't want to look as stupid as they are.

I never claimed the Feds weren't evil. These stings in essence are about as close as you can get to entrapment without crossing the blue line. Also the fact that they are radicalizing people, that may have otherwise been harmless ,just so they can bust them like some minority report dystopia is not the acts of good men.

In my opinion the way our federal government handles most things is inherently evil. Profit>People is how their organizations are run. These coups aren't for our safety. They are a way of securing funds for defense contractors through our tax dollars. Similar to how the drug war works.

Anytime you here the phrase "The war on ____" just replace that with "Profit from ___"

I read some news articles, and it does seem that the stories that make it public, where the feds are "coercing" people into faux domestic terror attacks use fake explosives most of the time. I imagine the point of saying the "stuff" had to be switched is because you would never want to accuse the FBI, or the U.S. government of being Big Brother. I'd much rather point the finger first, and have it investigated, then tip toe around WTC7.

Meanwhile, the entire situation looks much more like a coerced false flag attack, one that was specifically intended to cause fear in the population, and further crackdown on civil liberties related to close combat weaponry.

This was done on purpose, with an agenda.

MIHOP.. Made it happen on purpose. There was no "big mistake" when dealing with Tamerlan and Jahar. They wanted them to carry out the bombing. Your implying they are double agents. There was no second level of trickery like you imply.

The Saudi nationalist was not a provider of bombs. He was some 18-20 year old punk who enjoyed his trip to Disney World. He was no secret agent of any kind. The exact role of the Saudi still has no been totally explained. Maybe another patsy.

There is no big mistake on the part of the feds. You are ignoring the historical evidence. The FBI knew, the CIA knew all about Tamerlan. You are making the events too complex by adding this extra dimension of trickery.

Reality is more simple. Government patsy. MIHOP.

slow clap bravo, OP, bravo. Most coherent argument I've heard yet

The most plausible and probable idea mentioned here is the FBI's involvement. There is little doubt in my mind that this was some kind of sting that went awry. I agree that with the presence of DHS, bomb sniffing dogs, and a supposed "drill" -- the feds were expecting something to go occur -- but it may not of gone as planned.