Foreign policy? Nope. Revolt isn't something you undertake on another's behalf- it's a rebellion against the misery of one's own (and by extension, a group's) life, and the weight, real or perceived, that the government is bringing down domestically. Unless the US decides to nuke its own cities or round up and massacre its own minorities, then I just don't know how you'd go about fomenting revolt. It's too abstract to the average bear- and a revolution needs all the average bears it can get. A revolt based on questionable foreign policy doesn't seem likely- as we've seen since the first Bush administration. And we've seen plenty of egregious foreign policy (and arguably, war crimes) in the interval. And let's not forget the event that should've, by any metric, at least provoked widespread rioting- the Kent State massacre. If there was ever a time in US history where the government was actively, openly menacing its own citizens, it was the 60s and 70s. What we got in lieu of revolution was 420 culture, some good music (and an astounding amount of bad music), and a generation with names like Moonbeam and Bodhi. It should have been a watershed moment- but it was lost in the haze.

Food/fuel/water riots? Sure. They happen all over the place. I don't necessarily know whether it would explode into full-out revolt, but if there's anything America values, it's its own comfort and convenience. I don't believe we'll see revolution of the scale necessary to change anything until those two things go out the window. Dwindling resources seem like a pretty safe bet for revolution; and while I say it's down to convenience, survival is a big motivator as well.

I'd like to think that a fascist crackdown would make revolution likely; that almost seems like a scenario in which revolution would be damn near necessary. Again, though, if you keep pumping the people full of bread and circuses, it's going to be hard to get many to regard disappearing rights and crippling laws as reasons to get hot under the collar. We've seen some of this during the interminable "War on Terror"- such as the people whose 4- and 5-year-old kids get strip-searched and have no problem with it because it's for "safety", or those who argue from the "If you've got nothing to hide..." position.

Personally, my stance is this: we're edging closer to a very stringently controlled, heavily corporate- and money-run society using puppet-shows and double-speak to convince us of our own exceptionalism (to our detriment), and thus far, we seem fine with it. I can't think of a more hypocritical and illegitimate form of government than that. I feel like we're headed for a confrontation, likely in the next few decades, but it remains to be seen whether it's a Second American Revolution or another example of why the Attorney General needs warrantless access to the interiors of our colons immediately, because terrorism. I hope it's the former, and I hope the aftermath is a sensible and constructive one, but I have my doubts about that. All the government has to do is to keep giving us the convenience and distraction we're used to, and they'll end up with carte blanche, sadly.

*Edit - grammar.

This is a wonderful and thoughtful response, possibly one of the best comments I have ever read on Reddit.

Thank you!

Thanks! ...I've pondered this very question more times than I should admit to on the Internet, for sure.

In a way, isn't bad foreign policy a way of "rounding up minorities" in the US? I mean, you don't exactly see tons of upper class citizens desperately lining up at the recruiters office. It hurts our country and people too.

Well, if it's taking place in the US, it's domestic policy. It'd be different if the US was rounding up Karen tribes or Hottentots to fight our wars for us. You could make the argument that the US is rounding up its own minorities for the military more effectively if whites were being barred and discouraged, or if minorities were being fast-tracked to middle management status over whites, of course, but I have yet to see evidence that this is the case.

But it's less a minority issue than it is a class issue at its core; what recruiters dangle out there to attract people impacts the poor rather than minorities specifically- college funds, signing bonuses, re-enlistment bonuses, etc, and they dangle them out in front of anybody who walks through the door, black or white. And while there are a great many poor minorities in the military, there are a great many poor whites, too (source- I'm ex-Navy). The ratio definitely leans in the direction of minorities, but that's a very, very long-standing societal and social inequity, one with its roots buried deeply in the 15th and 16th centuries onward. It's not good, but if the government is looking to shove minorities into war as a population-control measure, then they devised that scheme in the 20th century, considering how predominately white the military was all the way through WWII.

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Biggest problem I saw with OWS was that it got stagnant. The system simply evolved to handle it. Either through new laws, or illegal and under reported police action, under cover cops starting riots, etc... I liked the idea, but man they needed leadership, or a plan...

The question is wrong and needlessly violent.

Americans don't have to have any armed rebellion they simply have to stop giving legitimacy to the government. It is rather simply explained here and also explored here.

Once enough people realize the utter fallacy of believing in government, they will be free. As long as the sociopaths can keep us at each others throats, it will maintain control. Waking up and smelling the reality will be the catalyst for change, no shots need to be fired.

1. The people suffer from famine because of the multitude of taxes consumed by their superiors. It is through this that they suffer famine

2. The people are difficult to govern because of the (excessive) agency of their superiors (in governing them). It is through this that they are difficult to govern.

3. The people make light of dying because of the greatness of their labours in seeking for the means of living. It is this which makes them think light of dying. Thus it is that to leave the subject of living altogether out of view is better than to set a high value on it.

-Tao Te Ching

While I agree with your approach, I have to ask: How can a question be 'violent'?

This was and is a popular question in the ethics of politics, I am surprised at the hesitance everyone has shown.

To drive the point home, no one would describe the following question as violent: 'Is armed opposition against Assad morally justifiable?'

I have to ask: How can a question be 'violent'?

In implication. For example:

Should we slit the throats of our children in order to save them from the Roman Legion?

Are you implying that the Roman Legion is about to break through the city gates?

To be honest, I don't think America is in a place where Armed Rebellion will be justifiable unless things keep going for another decade or two the way they have the last decade.

People really dont think about young adults in this country.... im 24. All of my friends, realize, we are footing the bill for our loans, our kids (if we have them), the older people, and we will probably not be able to afford to ecer stop working. We are idiots breed in government schools to not think, not learn teachings but learn how to take tests. We are broke, there are more of us without work than ever before (25 % of 2o-34 year olds are without work.) What the government fails to realize is we are far from dumb. We read, discuss, and realise the issues brought to us by others in power. And we are starting to get pissed. For one of the least discussed generations, in a positive light, people seem overly comfortable to forget that the same punk kids that were pumped full of medication, taught to fight, brainwashed by big brother, and royally fucked by the government are about to start gaining power in a failed system. With that comes two solutions.

War. Which they would not want. You raised us as fucked up delinquents. We will fight as such.

Or change within government itself. Like I said we realize how broke we are and will continue to be. Our kids will be even worse off... we know the problems and when we can we will fix them.. a lot of people are waking up these days.

You have to understand that here on /r/conspiracy we are careful about expressing support for violence because any such support could have us labeled as terrorists. We're a bit paranoid about that sort of thing. :P

I suppose if my friends or neighbors were being rounded up and executed for dissent, then I might in that instance have to arm myself for defensive purposes. I really don't see that happening though. I've not really thought about it much to be honest.

edit: I guess if I were in a situation where i perceived non-violent actions to have no power to prevent harm to those I care about, or where i perceived non-violent actions to have no power to prevent harm to myself, then in that situation I would likely arm myself. But I'm the kind of person who picks bugs up and puts them outside rather than squish them. Violence would be a loooonnng ways down my list of coping strategies for trying situations.

edit2: I'd like to lend my support for the bulk of phoenix-ashes' comment

I am asking the question because I want to bring awareness to the reality of this issue. I was hoping for a good discussion on r/AskReddit.

The US advocates "regime-change" and "military-action" and to the populace those sound like strategies in a game. I want to know what a real world 'red line' the Americans give their government.

I am surprised at the hesitance. For example, like you said if the military rounded up and executed 1 out of 10 of your neighbors, that should make armed rebellion justifiable for any moral and sane person. That's an extreme case, but people are afraid even of discussing that.

Now, here is the philosophical point: If people have become so afraid that they can not verbalize a 'red line' without fear of being detained, then can you honestly say you don't live in a fascist state?

If people have become so afraid that they can not verbalize a 'red line' without fear of being detained, then can you honestly say you don't live in a fascist state?

I don't think it means necessarily that we live in a fascist or totalitarian state. I think it means that we have a government and associated power structures that are terrified of the potential danger that groups of humans present, including the average citizens like me. I think that's a sad state of affairs, but it is the reality. We have a government that is even terrified of the threat to the stability of government if 9/11 conspiracy theories became popularly outwardly accepted, regardless of their verity. So with such a hypersensitivity to potential threats, militia groups or domestic terrorists and what have you, I think it's sensible for us average people to be very clear that we intend no violence. Yes it's not the ideal utopian free society where you can say whatever you want and not expect consequences, it's the real world, and in the real world you exercise caution and try not to make yourself scary looking to scared people with guns.

edit: anyway, there are non-violent ways to revolt or rebel that can send a message clearly without anybody becoming physically injured or killed.

I don't disagree with you, but can you tell me how you would identify a fascist or totalitarian state?

The red line is when they openly start shooting at us and taking us to camps. If they actually manage to get that far their revolution will be brought to a quick end after that.

Make no mistake, THEY are the revolutionaries. THEY are the ones attempting to overthrow our system of government, the Republic and Constitution. WE are the counter revolutionaries.

I think the last straw would be if they tried to conduct a gun grab. Though there are a lot of people pissed about things like the boston lockdown.

I think the redline has been crossed already. I'm sure the FBI is on their way now...

I don't think the 'red line' has been crossed. There have been infringements, there should be roll backs, and later tribunals. Americans, even the ones here on r/Conspiracy have became very afraid. It's saddening. I don't think America needs to become a dictatorship, but it will have to recognize that it is not the land of the free either.

No one should be afraid of discussing and picking positions of morality. That really ought to be a basic right. Regardless, I don't think anyone is coming your way or my way. We are not advocating violence, we hold political positions. This is a patriotic duty of every lover of freedom.

I dont care for the fact that hand full of families own the majority of the wealth in this country. The banks are robbing the entire world. Companies like monsanto are going to make planting your own crops illegal. They want to privatize water sources. They stifle medical and technological innovation to ensure their pockets continue to get lined. To top it all off we essential live in a police state. I'm not happy one bit, and its really depressing. I am however not scared. I probably should be, and i fear for my children. The worst part is even if i leave the US, theres no way in hell my ex-wife will let me take my kids, so their stuck here. Shes too busy watching the kardashians and shit to even know about the blindfold pulled over her eyes.

Violence is never justified if the desired result is peace.

I would think that one of the main issues people have with the US Government is it's addiction to mindless violent domination. An armed rebellion is a violent dominators dream.

Any armed response to the violent domination we see coming from the US Government will be completely fruitless.

When a critical mass of average citizens experiences FIRST HAND the ruthless and monstrous nature of those in control they will resist it by actively denouncing it. Weak and ignorant individuals will attack it or they will declare allegiance to it out of fear.

What needs to happen is a continued growth in the voices of those who stand in peace in full opposition to the policy and actions motivated by violent domination.

It's really simple. Say no to ALL the wars. Say no to violence everywhere you see it.

Peacefully demand an end to the wars and this hijacked government will fall very quickly.

Enjoy a peaceful fema camp

Already in one. So are you.

How could we ever bare arms against them? I read theories here but our Gov't has the big boy guns. NUKES. How could we ever oppose that force?

I think yours is the only response saying "There is no 'red line'" which also mentions that the reason is not moral but a matter of one's own survival.

Supposedly we have this power to give these leaders thier power. So what step could we take as a nation of people that could revoke that power? If we I don't know, Occupied Wall Street or the captiol would they just relent and relinquish their power? Would they do as they swore and uphold our (mostly) just constitution? Hell NO!!! They would fight tooth and nail to hold on to their stranglehold on this country. I would not put pass full military "protection" for them. Every citizen in America could have an "assualt rifle" and it would do exactly nothing to a nuke being dropped on their heads.

You are underestimating the power people have over their leaders. Think about your surroundings. Think of someone who has authority in your family or friends, how fragile is that authority in the face of life experiences? What actions of theirs would make everyone take away their support? How strong would they be without the support?

Governments aren't immune to those same effects.

If you have an hour, here is an uplifting example of the power of people. Note very little force was used by either side

Swiftly. They wont nuke themselves.

100th monkey effect. A collective consciousness is needed for the tipping point. We will make it there in time. If THEY use force, then the American people will need to use force.

I wonder whether some American colonists originally said "let's do this peacefully, let's hold a peaceful protest rally against the King!" and then got their asses shot up by the Brits. Sometimes tyrants only listen to a big stick.

no, absolutely not. This isn't Gaza

When the government suspends the constitution by executive order to justify it's right to suppress the natural law of rights for men.

Nope.

We can still vote. Violent uprising is not a solution who would the military side with? we have to many nuclear weapons and nuclear plants and to many other scary things for other nations to just sit back and watch...

We can still vote.

That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

whats sad is the fact that people are advocating armed rebellion..you wanna stick it to the man? A mortgage strike and student loan strike would do more damage...armed rebellion seems like a fast track military dictatorship

No one in this thread has so far advocated armed rebellion and neither do I. I am asking that we discuss the scenarios which are crossing a 'red line' for you.

For example, a mortgage strike won't last very long if people are getting shot in the street by the military for not paying their mortgage.

There is no red line...violence does not solve anything...win the hearts and minds...its battle between light and dark...always has been...history books are filled with tales of peoples who faught and died for freedom and rights...and here we are...break this cycle..

This I can agree with, your position is consistent. I once even spiritually and intuitively understood your point. I have since been dragged back into the cycle. I need to meditate again :).

I find many people who don't have an issue with police arresting a person who has crossed a 'red line' and confining them (a form of violence), but then not having a 'red line' for government.

We can still vote.

That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

No one in this thread has so far advocated armed rebellion and neither do I. I am asking that we discuss the scenarios which are crossing a 'red line' for you.

For example, a mortgage strike won't last very long if people are getting shot in the street by the military for not paying their mortgage.