As a german I think denying the holocaust indicates severe brain damage. Although there is a law against it in germany I have no problem with these sort of posts showing up. It helps me to set tags to ignorant or racist people to see their comments in context on later encounters. I also think this sub of all subs should be open to any idea no matter how crazy it sounds.
There's been three occasions in my life when i've had to call someone out (in real life, not across the web) for being quite astonishingly ignorant by bleating out holocaust denying bullshit. Every time it has happened, some other douchebag has come to the aid of said denyer citing 'freedom of speech'. It's at that point on every occasion i've had to remind them that i'm also free to start hitting them in the face as hard as i can.
Fucking cretins think they're being 'edgy' and original. I'm happy to show them exactly what my fist thinks of that.
It's at that point on every occasion i've had to remind them that i'm also free to start hitting them in the face as hard as i can.
Hitting someone in the face has nothing to do with free speech.
Just out of curiousity ... are you vaguely aware there is currently an ongoing genocide in Palestine, a "Palestinian Holocaust" funded in great parts with US dollars that should be dealt with, or is the Jewish one that happened 70 years ago with lots of propaganda included the only one that matters to you?
Downvotes will pour, but if you take time to watch the video you will see for yourself many of the facts that make no sense. People have been brainwashed into throwing out any form of critical thinking when it comes to this touchy subject.
Sorry for not believing everything I was taught. Sorry for caring more about the current ongoing US-paid genocide/holocaust in Palestine than the one that happened nearly 70 years ago and is still being paid for.
I expect the usual response of being called an asshole, ignorant, etc. by people that will give me reference to NY times articles and no valid counter-arguments to the claim that the event is filled with propaganda and half-truths that are still taught in schools today around Israel supporting countries while many historians have even backed down on the claims of mass exterminations with gas-chambers.
I do not deny there was any suffering, that no one was killed. I feel for the surviving family members and truly believe even one death in a conflict is one too many. The crimes against Palestine is just another example of the brain-washed hypocrisy of the west when it comes to the Zionist agenda.
How I wish I knew. Many many people have been asking that question for decades.
It seems one side has the upper-hand, is being financed by all major powers in the onlooking western world and is hell-bent on destroying the other out of existence.
Many things are hidden in plain sight. Walk around, and ask your fellow countrymen how they feel about the situation in Palestine.
Some won't have a clue. Others will say 'damn Arabs 'n terr'rists deserve the shit they get. Yet others will justify it saying they are always attacking Israel (with sticks and stones need I remind you).
The majority of the populace is quite clueless on what's happening outside their hometown and respective countries.
Sure, some are waking up and maybe just maybe at some point we can hope the awakened ones will reach a high enough number to actually bring on some change, but time is running out. And the censoring and laws are getting harsher day by day. Drones will soon be patroling over U.S.A, enforcing laws that prevent any criticism of those in power.
I am sorry that I will leave the world in a worse state than when I came into it, and could not really do anything about it. That's life, I guess but to my credit ... I had a hell of a good time.
You -do- realize they have rockets, right? And that they actually have weapons? Not the Palestinian people, but Hamas? Who fire the rockets constantly into Israel then use their own people as shields when Israel tries to take out the launch sites so they can exploit their deaths to make Israel look worse then they already are?
Also what does the second half have to do with the situation in Gaza and Israel?
Oh boy. "Rockets". How many Israeli casualties are we talking about?
26 casualties since the past 10 years. Most of those deaths occurred during Israeli invasions of Palestinian territories, condemend by a shit-load of (ignored) bull-shit UN resolutions let us not forget.
Have you seen the Isreali map lately?!?!? What would you recommend the Palestinians do? Send flowers and hope for peace? Or maybe just wait until they are wiped out? Oh. Maybe they should turn to International court, or the UN to rid them of their oppressors? It seems International court was only useful for Nuremburg. The international laws meant to prevent genocide do not really apply for Palestinians, it seems. In fact, come to think of it ... International law is only applied when it serves western interests.
If your country was invaded and occupied in such a manner, would you be sending flowers and praying for peace, as your land and humand rights are stripped off slowly year after year?
Palestine, one of the poorest country in the world is a threat to Isreal, that boasts one of the most powerful armies in the world?
I've been trolled enough for today. Good-night sir.
If you actually read what I've said, Hamas isn't good for Palestine either. They allow their own people to get killed to use as propaganda and they engineer their own people to get killed to do so. Yea, of course the rockets aren't as effective as they should be but they are still rockets being fired and still have a chance to kill people. Not to mention they've been attacking Israel for decades from Palestine. If it hasn't been successful for decades, what makes you think it will be successful today?
So good on people like Steven Hawking and Amnesty to bring to light what's going on but bad on Hamas who exploit the deaths of their own people for propaganda.
But hey, if logic and facts are what trolls you into slithering out of a conversation then so be it.
I did read what you said. I'll answer your pitiful rethoric, then let's see if you can answer mine.
Hamas is most often depicted in our zionist owned medias as a radical Islamic fundamentalist organization. They are also pointed to being THE major roadblock to the peace process. Truth is, Israel has no intention whatsoever of pursuing the peace process, Hamas has nothing to do with it.
Civilians have come to depend on Hamas that takes care of all basic services best they can in the occupied territories. This includes maintaining and rebuilding the administrational structures that are repeatedly targeted and destroyed. Taking care of schooling facilities, minimal as they may be and distributing food and minimal health care. Coordinating the various International aid groups that sometimes are allowed in Gaza. They do have a military agenda, as would any occupied / invaded country and saying otherwise would be hypocrisy.
To further enlighten you on the current situation of Hamas, here is an article from last week coming from a news source you would deem as being respectable seeing it is Isrealian.
Do take notice they are saying the organisation is maintaining peace and stop feeding me that propagandish bullshit. In other words, Hamas is no longer active militarily against Israel and without Hamas, Palestinian civilians would be totally left to their own plight. The world does not give a fuck about Palestine in case you have not noticed.
While you are there, (if you bother to read this at all), take note of all the quotes made by various Isreali leaders and politiciens at the bottom of that page. Sickening if I may say so myself and not worthy of human behavior.
I ask again, and my question begs an answer, what would you do if your country was being wiped off the face of the map, all paid for by US dollars, while the whole world watches and does nothing?
People like you that believe in and promote the zionist propaganda are actually way more harmful to Palestinians than Hamas ever was. People that fight for their freedom merit respect.
Now that Hamas is keeping things quiet, let us see how fast Israel will put an end to building illegal settlements, let us see if they will dismantle and give back the land they stole as stated in 65 broken UN resolutions. Palestine has none, in case you were curious.
Please. Don't forget to at least maybe try to answer my question. I don't really expect you to come up with a sensible answer. But hey, try and surprise me with something sensible. Let's see how you justify a modern day genocide holocaust this time.
Obviously. I will not take this personnaly, your comment history hints you think very highly of yourself, but I think it's a front. No constructive arguments or coherent information, just a list of put-downs directed at various users that you feel are smarter than you. I smell a lack of self-confidence.
Low self-esteem sucks, give yourself a break friend.
Trolls will be trolling. Even your reputable Jewish historians agree the 6 million number was made up and that gas chambers were not used to kill people on a grand scale. Those facts have long since been debunked, many many times.
It's ok. Some people still believe the earth is flat and if I can respect their belief I guess I can respect yours, flawed as they may be.
Do NOT follow the links I posted, your brain will overload when you see the lies exposed.
Ok. Here are a few excerpts, Google the names yourself.
This page has references/quotes from a few Jewish names.
David Irving is a Jew himself. Google his videos, read his books you will have tons of info. This man has been cited by many other historians.
Ernst Zundel also dared to question the 6 million. At his trial in Canada the Supreme Court had this to say "THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENSE." For daring to question, he is in a German prison today. When the Jews say 6 million died then you had better beileve it OR ELSE!!! Haven´t you noticed that charges of "hate crime" only apply to Jews? Have you ever heard of an Italian, Japanese, and heaven forbid, a German, ever being the victim of hate crime?
Norman Finkelstein lost his proffesorship for exposing the "Holocaust Industry".
There. All in all you have 6 names in a 5 minute search. I could find more, but my role in life is not to educate you.
You just listed a bunch of fucking holocaust deniers, all of which have been found to be liars and fraudsters and have a fair amount of jail time between them...
Whatever, you holocaust denying asshole. Keep drinking the koolaid, bro.
Norman Finkelstein, for one did not go to jail. He has very powerful lectures that often focus on the Palestinian situations and the fact the UN does fuck all depsite the 65 broken resolutions. Maybe you should educate yourself but I am guessing whatever I say, you would never believe anything but the official story that ensures your homeland fat, juicy sums of money to help in the extermination efforts against Holocaust of Palestine.
Of course anyone that questions anything whatsoever on the "official" propaganda version will be dismissed without a thought by you and your kind.
Sorry to have wasted time on a war-mongering brain-washed individual that supports a regime bent on finshing the task they started 50 some years ago: Eliminating all Palestinians on the land they stole.
Conspiratards always say 'educate yourself' as a way to seem more well informed, when in fact it is you who've pigeon-holed yourself into a conspiracy which isn't there. You also keep trying to divert this to a conversation about Palestine.. We were talking about the holocaust..
Anyway, i'm not going to enable your delusions anymore, you loon.
No hard feelings. I have about half a dozen Jewish friends and only one is Zionist / Pro-Israel. Needless to say we do not talk politics, yet have very interesting conversations on other topics nonetheless.
If it's allright with you, we can agree to disagree and do away with the name calling and childish non constructive blabbering.
Millions upon millions more have died in whatever other mass genocide you can fucking think of... to say anything negative about this one group of people and then to be called an anti-semite/racist is the biggest cop out to avoid the truth from seeing the light of day.
It's specifically and objectively against the rules they have set out in the sidebar as far as I can tell. So I'm wondering if any mods have taken note since I reported it.
ya, see "nigger" is being directed towards someone who's skin is black, regardless of what religion they follow. Being discriminated against for having skin of a different color is ridiculous, HOWEVER being discriminated against for saying anything negative about a specific religion and in some countries going to jail for it is beyond ridiculous.
Although I agree in part with your premise, please understand the Jews are not to blame. It is rather Zionism that controls the political scene wich in turn triggered the events. Hating Zionism is like hating war or communism. Hating Jews is racism.
In 500 years German children will still believe the same story because it is protected from being revised. Though, to be fair slowly but surely the truth is coming out here and there. This page indicates just how many times the death toll has been lowered over the years. Wikipedia and our history text-books still indicate the magical 6 million figure that was decided upon way before the actual events even happened.
N.Y Times? Is that the best source you can find? You are funny I will take it as a joke.
In Russia alone Stalin killed over 20 million people during those years, many of them Jews. Yet Stalin has nowhere near the same coverage as Hitler.
This page shows - with verifiable references and pictures of the Aushwitz plaque how the numbers of Aushwitz death toll has been lowered over the years again and again... and again.
Why would this be?
We went from 6 millions to ... 135,000 to 140,000 according to Red Cross Tracing documents. The plaque is now set at 1.5 millions. Quite a difference nonetheless.
I think 1 death is too many, I do not want to minimize the suffering of those people the point I am trying to make is ... why would they make us believe in the 6 millions magic number, when it was bullshit and made up long before the war?
I felt used and taken as a sucker by the people that educated me on this, everyone all around has believed everything blindly and questioning it makes one pass off as a heartless, despicable piece of shit. Being a critical thinker should not bring this type of response. Nonetheless, I am sorry for having offended anyone that misunderstood the point I was trying to make.
Yes. I appreciate very much that the facts he states are all referenced, many are veryfiable and many come from (gasp) Jewish sources and credible (neutral) organisations. Ad hominem attacks are about the only option you people have to justify your opinions.
The article parent posted from NY Times was titled "Holocaust just got more shocking". All that money and energy spent on trying to bring more horror to a 70 year old nightmare could have been spent on putting an end to the currently on-going genocide/holocaust in Palestine, that is paid for in large part by US taxpayer money.
Yes. I appreciate very much that the facts he states are all referenced, many are veryfiable and many come from (gasp) Jewish sources and credible (neutral) organisations. Ad hominem attacks are about the only option you people have to justify your opinions.
I'm only responding to your dismissal of The New York Times (read: one of the most respected papers in the world). That isn't an ad hominem attack because I'm not saying your source discredits your argument, I'm saying you using a far less well established source (or rather, a source established as unreliable) makes criticising the NYT hypocritical.
The article parent posted from NY Times was titled "Holocaust just got more shocking". All that money and energy spent on trying to bring more horror to a 70 year old nightmare could have been spent on putting an end to the currently on-going genocide/holocaust in Palestine, that is paid for in large part by US taxpayer money.
They aren't alternatives. Are you suggesting we cut funding to everything that isn't linked directly to an impending threat until we resolve every major problem in the world?
The New York Times (read: one of the most respected papers in the world).
I will just leave this here for your personal benefit. It is a long read, but very much worth it. This paper is referenced thousand of times by other articles so it does seem to present a somewhat popular view.
US medias are owned by Zionists, and NY-T has been proven again and again to be pro-zionist. All major US medias are totally pro-Israel. Articles abound where the crimes against Palestine are passed off as self-defence and holocaust numbers are revised joyfully (revision is not illegal for them). Sadly, people take it all in hook-line-and-sinker. Anyone stepping up to the plate as I did will get shot down in flames, with little or very weak counter-arguments.
They aren't alternatives. Are you suggesting we cut funding to everything that isn't linked directly to an impending threat until we resolve every major problem in the world?
Isn't the main purpose of documenting "The Holocaust" to make sure this never happens again? I remember hearing that slogan somewhere ... "Never again" ... I guess this only applied to one culture because I can surely see the Palestinian territories shrinking year after year ... their people being deprived of human dignity and hope, that after all ... we should all be entitled to. Sorry if my opinions differ from the majority, I respect whatever you want to believe in, and understand not everyone has this attitude towards people that think differently.
I think the question of whether or not the holocaust actually happened is irrefutable.
A proper education with material from proper historians would probably swagger your opinion. HINT - David Cole, David Irving
The history we learned in school is very questionable.
Holocaust is a term coined for a very specific agenda: To bring on guilt and shame to the masses in exchange of financial retributions. There have been many genocides in history. Why did the Jewish hardships merit a specific reserved word, that can not be used for other genocides? Many of those massacres killed more people than the WWII tragedy. Colonialists killed over 100 million indians when we colonized North-America. Yet this is not and will never be talked about in great details in our school rooms. The people who decide what we are taught have an agenda.
So then what should be called into question is the nature under which these events transpired, and the details surrounding them. To outright deny the holocaust is an insult to the millions who died not only in the holocaust, but in every other genocide. In fact, I read not too long ago in this very subreddit that Hitler is quoted to have said something along the lines of. "Kill without mercy. After all, who remembers the Armenians?"
Friend. Just a simple fact, to give you something to ponder.
Stalin, in WWII was ally. Joseph Stalin did not intentionally target Jews, but he did amass quite a large amount of killings. Stalin killed over 20 million people in his purges and five-year plans. Look it up. Look up the Jewish holocaust in Wikipedia, you will notice the number has been brought down from 6 millions ( a pre-determined holy number) to around 1.5 millions.
Why do we NEVER hear about the 20 million Russians (many Jews in there too)? Why no financial retribution to Russian victims? Stalin killed many many times more people than Hitler ever has. In Russia Stalin is still considered a hero by many of the older generation.
History is written by the victors, and this sub is so full of shills it's quite creepy. Notice how the downvotes pile up yet no one has any counter-arguments?
Exactly my point. But don't waste too much time in this thread, the vote counter shows very weird results, still 0 upvotes when the subject is obviously a darling of many conspiracy fans.
I smell that there are people in this thread paid to blast this topic down into oblivion.
A Google search doesn't demonstrate anything. There's a trillion results no matter the search criteria. Take off the tinfoil hat and act like an adult.
Ok. I thought the first page listed showed enough meat to at least instill doubt in any critical thinker.
How about a link to a handbook for the promotion of Israel? These groups work in unison, as a team and can manage very positive results as you can see in my comment history on this particular post only.
Or another article stating clearly the magnitude of the scam?
Just looking at this threads vote count makes it pretty obvious to me this topic is taboo, censored. I respect your opinion, though I fail to see how you rationalise the reasoning behind it.
Too many results in the search, means it's not true. Oh well.
We were shown movies and had these long talks on those horrible things the Germans did. Russia may have been mentioned at your history classes, but not in the (Canadian) schools I attended.
The Russians 20 millions deaths does not receive even close to the attention and mediatisation as the "Holocaust" that took 1.5 millions lives in Germany. Oh, and they never had any kind of retributions either.
It's because the systematic targeting of a minority within a country's boders are more shocking than a big war. I certainly learned about the 20 million Russians who died in Hitler's invasion of the USSR, and I don't mean to trivialize their deaths, but people are expected to die in a big war. It's much more frightening for a government to brutally and systematically target it's own people.
I went to a Canadian high school, and I learned all about the Soviet camps and killings, as well as the deaths of Russians during wartime. Where did you go?
You may of had a teacher that was insighful enough to tell you more than the educational program dictated, good for you but I can assure you I have never heard of any highshool with anything that touches Russian history. I went to school in Northern B.C, the 4 kids I raised went to school in Quebec. Never seen anything about Russia on the curriculum.
Everybody in the world knows 6 millions jews were killed in gas chambers by Germans. The figure is made up, (we don't know how many jews were killed), and the gas chambers were not used to kill jews, this has been proven to be propaganda and historians no longer push this narrative.
Yet it is still taught, word for word as told above in every history book you pick up. Heck, the death count in academic book is going up, while reputed historians are bringing it down.
Nevertheless, much as the event was indeed very tragic and horrible, there is a genocide / holocaust going on right now that Stephen Harper himself is partially funding. Did they teach you about Palestine? How their territory is shrinking year after year bit by bit?
Maybe we could concentrate on not letting history repeat itself instead of bickering over things that happened 70 years ago while closing our eyes on the atrocities we are guilty of funding.
Questioning this event always brings this response. We are anti-semites, if we question a fact, we are insensible and deny the whole thing. Read my comments and you will see for yourself I have stated many times that yes many jews were killed and it was a horrible event.
But the story was presented by the allies in a very deceiving manner. 6 million jews were not gassed at Aushwitz, contrary to what is still taught in our schools. Listen to the videos yourself and figure it out for yourself if you want, the information is all there and both videos are made by jews so we cannot really pretend they are anti-semites.
6 millions jews, everyone knows this number yet no one remembers how many Americans died in WWII. How many Russians. How many Chinese (+20 millions). The only number we remember is 6 million. I call bullshit and many others have too.
Anyways, I have stated all the facts and David Irving (another Jew) documentaries is what got me thinking, I suggest you google him.
Being labeled a holocaust denier and an anti-semite is about the only counter arguments these people can spew. Yet I am neither anti-semite nor a Holocaust denier. I am an avid reader of history who started to get interested in hoaxes in history and this is a major one.
If believing between 750 000 and 1.5 million people died in Aushwitz instead of 6 millions makes me a holocaust denier and an anti-semite, so be it. No one countered the facts because the information has already been debunked and the 6 million figure is a myth, as are the gas chambers supposedly used for mass extermination. Does this make me a holocaust denier? Watch the vids and see for yourself how some Jews have lied their ass off. And they still do to this day in all our history books.
Just because he is discredited does not mean he is wrong. Read his books, or watch his documentaries. He is actually one of the only living historians to have interviewed German officers that were close to Hitler, interviewed many Jews, wrote many books and articles detailing the joke that we call the "Nuremburg trial".
The Zionists have destroyed the man, but his work lives on. Read up on the subject with an open mind and look up the facts, you will find history was presented to us in a very distorted manner. I know my view is not popular as it goes against all we have been taught, and please do not think I am racist because I could not care less about Jews, I even have some close Jewish friends. Of course the man was not popular he was pointing out all the lies the allies laid down as history. Many historians have even given up on the famous "gas chamber killings" because of his very hard to rebute proofs. The gas chambers were de-loussing chambers to kill lice, that was the main cause of typhus. The "extermination camps" were in fact work camps, to assist in the war effort. This is today acknowledged by many other historians, yet the original story lives on because it sounds better.
If your argument is to replace the word holocost with genocide, that's a legitimate debate, but very different from denying he actual deaths did not happen , no matter what you call them
I never said no one died. I am saying there have been many many other genocides, and many of those with way more casualties.
But the Jewish tragedy has been exploited (and still is to this day) to maximise retributions and justify their own agenda. How can one not take notice, there are hundreds of books and a dozen movies on the jewish holocaust, yet virtually nothing on any of the other known genocides.
Well if you are saying the genocide was used to forward an ongoing political goal, I don't think anyone denies that either. Every single politician worth their salt can use any success or tragedy to advance their previous positions. On a smaller scale, with all the public shootings, democrats are using those things to further their agenda.
I think another reason it gets more publicity than other is first it was recorded to some degree in films and pictures, there are still people living who participated. That makes for better documentary and television. I'm assuming that since we're speaking in English you're either in north american or Europe. All of the books and documentaries tend to be based, western perceptions, WWII was a pretty earth shattering event, I'm sure there is was a desire to learn all aspects.
Another reason this one gets more publicity is because for examples the Stalin purges, Mao's death march, Cambodia... most of them tend to in countries that limit access to the west, and are events that for many years were still actively being denied.
TL:DR Jewish people had good PR reps, were able to classify genocide as holocost, used suffering in the war to advance their political agenda, like every other government in the world.
The world Holocaust becoming a proper noun makes sense, it was used to describe massacres before, I'm sure in one or two hundres years after another massive genocide, the events during WWII night lost its proper noun status.
Well if you are saying the genocide was used to forward an ongoing political goal, I don't think anyone denies that either.
Just seeing the mass downvotes my comments triggered is a good enough proof that many people deny anything that counters the "official" story. Especially in this sub, where many are aware that Zionism has been at the center of many political ploys, do you not find this surprising that most posts that scratch the subject get downvoted to oblivion?
I mean, it's not like the information is not out there. It is all hidden in plain sight. Think about it, why is this historic event protected by law from being revised? The ONLY historic event protected by law from even being discussed. Is this not a big enough indicator they have a story to protect and that they do not want changed at all?
I have believed blindly for many years, today I believe nothing until I see facts myself. Although this will be mass-downvoted, I encourage you to dig into the subject and draw your own conclusions. In another comment on this post, I left the 2 names of historians that dared question the so-called truth. Google + YouTube can do the rest for you. I can assure you will see enough evidence from these 2 historians to question what you were taught on "the holocaust". Never mind they were discredited, this is totally to be expected as were the mass downvotes on my comments. Just get the facts and judge for yourself.
Of course, sticking to the official version makes life easier and brings more karma but I prefer to gather facts and make up my own mind. Too many things in the official story did not add up.
Karma is made to keep the sheeples happy, the only use I have for that crap is to indicate what the shills and zionists support groups are monitoring.
Your comments don't get down voted because you're wrong. It's the way you say it. I know about all sorts of genocides that have happened. From Cambodia to Russia but your responses and the way you word things makes you sound like an asshole.
Yes. My point is everyone knows "6 million were gassed by Germans". The whole world knows and to this day it is taught in all Pro-Israel countries. Even if the 6 million figure is made up. Even if historians today acknowledge gas-chambers were not used to exterminate people. The myth lives on. I am not a "Holocaust denier" because I totally agree many many people died and suffered. I am a Holocaust revisionist, because I have discovered and verified many facts that point to massive propaganda.
Armenia (1.5 Million) , Cambodia (2+Millions), Russia (20+ Millions), North America (100 Millions +) , Rwanda (1.7 Millions) are all horrible massacres that are very rarely if ever brought up in our culture. Nowhere even CLOSE to the publicity the massacre in Germany garnered. Do you not feel the need to ponder on the reasons for this? Do you not feel the need to ponder on why a massacre in Palestine is acceptable, right now today in 2013 whereas what happened in 1940's needs to be perpetuated with hundreds of books and dozens of movies?
Here is a movie, just for you. Just do me a favor, I am not a beggar by nature but I beg you to watch this with an open mind and see for yourself how we are constantly being lied and manipulated by special interest groups.
My 2 cents. Cheers, peace to you and loved ones my friend.
I'm not, nor have I ever said, that genocide is acceptable. These historians you speak of. Do they really exist, or are they figment of your imagination? I know a few and this doesn't ring a bell with any of them.
Ok. Please be objective, and take time to read this short post.
You will see the names of a few historians in there, as well as a few myths that are debunked.
Many others have since come forward, but as you can see from this post the topic is very heavily censored, people questionning anything on this topic get a shitload of opposition and names called. Please, take a little time to follow the links I posted and judge for yourself the validity of what you were taught.
Granted I can believe numbers were distorted. The one woman who said she didn't see anything isn't a good source. Eyewitness accounts are good for nothing. Just saying.
Do you honestly believe that all those downvotes on my comments, the fact that the post is at 0 votes is a result of regular users expressing their opinions? I had heard about this type of response before but it is the first time I experience a targeted crackdown on my opinions.
I think you're being a bit paranoid. This has been linked to in other subs. Meaning that, people that normally wouldn't see your ideas, now do. Therefore down voting you for being what they see as crazy.
I can assure you that I have absolutely no emotional attachment to karma.
Usually when comments have 20, 30 downvotes one sees posts with logical counter arguments of some kind. Notice how some very rational comments on the thread get mass down-voted without any logical explanation. These are not trollish or offensive in nature, so the only reasonable explanation I have is downvote brigades.
Last but not least, putting all paranoia aside, how can you be 100% certain that articles like this one and this one and this one and this one among hundreds, is all fake and made up? Do you believe powerful special interest groups would be above monitoring and censoring sensible information?
I live a very peaceful and calm life. Will be getting up tomorrow and spend the day in the garden. This does not mean I close my eyes and trust everything blindly around me. Yes, I am very weary of all major media outlets, because they are mostly government spokespersons and lord knows government is not to be trusted but that is another story. Thanks for hearing me out yet again, I am not "crazy" nor paranoiac by nature. When it comes to this sub and other informatin medias though, seeing how a simply **asking* if we can post on a specific historic event draws so many downvotes, I mean seriously???
If you are still as confident and certain of your world-view as you were before this discussion, then good for you. Personnaly, I prefer verifying most everything before I put faith in it. 45 years of being lied to by the people I thought were there to protect me has made me reconsider everything I was taught. From the Moon Landings to the JFK Assasinations to Vietnam false flags all the way up to 7/7 and 9/11, I think many people are just doomed to be forever mentally devoted to the illusion that government is their friend and acts in their best interest when the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth.
I have no doubt as to 9/11 and 7/7. They were perpetrated by extremist groups, yet you do have points about not trusting our government, and hating special interest groups. Yet I also have no doubts that the people in charge are just as fallible as the rest of us. If the government really thought these people knew the truth. They wouldn't be allowed to share it. That's how I feel. I also have no desire it fear of them. I'm more than capable of taking care of myself in all but the most drastic of situations. I'm more the type to just see what happens and respond accordingly.
I do not hate special interests groups, I take them for what they are: organisations that manipulate public opinions for their agendas by various means such as:
Public medias (CNN, Fox News, etc ..
Non-profit organisations (Rockefeller foundation, Ford Foundation, Anti Defamation League, and many many others
Covert shill brigades such as those reflected in the articles I posted
These groups have a shitload of money, and spend it to influence public opinion according to their agendas. This seemed overly evident on this particular post, if you still have doubts and cannot believe this sub is censored, just read up on this users history.
Well. I admire your brazenness. I actually had to think and ponder on this a good ten minutes before answering. I enjoy thinking, so thanks.
Yes, obviously I would probably have to censor somewhere along the line. Off-topic posts, including spam and other junk posts would be dropped. Things on topic would stay.
Considering we are in /r/conspiracy , and that we can talk about all sorts of conspiracy theories ranging from Illuminati to 9/11 to faked moon landings, even lizard people for pete's sake ...
Why would posts or most any information related to "The" holocaust be censored?
Why would I receive massive downvotes and personal threats by pm for stating my opinion, which is still quite moderate since I do not deny the events happened?
Why is it even illegal for non-jews to question or revise this particular historic event only in Pro-Israel countries?
I am an old man and don't really have much to do with personal threats and warnings sent to my inbox. It only shows me how radical some of these people can be, and I am happy they are wasting precious time on someone that will be out laboring in the field most of the summer not even thinking about these matters, instead of annoying other people. What worries me is the up-coming generations. My grand-children, your generation and those to come.
Having a taboo subject like this indicates people have something to hide and protect. But why?
I have a clue, and I will say it. The "holocaust" retribution business is a multi-billion dollars per year industry.
Heck, if you count all the foreign aid they receive from the western powers, you can add a few billions more.
Many people depend on these retributions for various reasons. These retribution packages and foreign aid funding could be what is protected.
Please, I would be more than happy and grateful to hear your take on my above 3 questions.
And on a parting note my loyal friend that stayed on until the thread's end, here is a video that explains clearly the things I am afraid of for you people in coming times. Sadly, it seems the path is already pretty much laid out and things are going as planned for the people that own us.
In 5 years of Redditing, I have had many many diffrences of opinions. Never one that reaches close to that many downvotes and involves threats via PM's.
The emotional element is indeed exploited to the max, backed with fallacies and propaganda. The methodology works very well as we all can see from the Americans blindly supporting of Zionism, though most are clueless on the subject.
Thanks for being honest in not being to answer my question. I can only say before moving on that Palestinians are desperate and do not know what to do either. Their pleas are ignored and unheard, Israel is the only voice we hear.
A little recap for you on the situation concerning my comment history.
Being a computer programmer / database administrator, I easily notice data patterns and trends in my computing habits.
Posting a comment on my 5 year old account predictably garners on average between -2 and +5 votes, with occasional peaks on both ends of the spectrum. On a 24 hour timespan after the comment is posted, the votes trickle in. My posts are mostly respectful of others and non-trollish, so I get more upvotes that downvotes. Not that it matters, this is just to explain the trend of my data.
Yesterday, I posted about a dozen comments. The first few comments brought on a barrage of immediate downvotes, over 100 downvotes within one hour of posting. Very few comments on most of the downvotes. This in itself made my spider senses tingle. I had read about others being censored but had never thought it could happen on my account.
I woke this morning to find the regular upvote pattern of regular users had trickled in through the night, bringing up +30 votes on yesterdays comments.
I can assure you, there is no emotional distress over this, I do not even feel it is a conspiracy since I have found much more convincing evidence on other accounts. I am just stating plain facts that clearly indicate lightning fast mass downvotes on controversial topics.
Check it out for yourself, someday maybe you will experience this yourself and hopefully remember this conversation where I pointed out the obvious to you.
Many people do use the term holocaust to describe similar tragedies of widespread genocide, kind of like any slight scandal in the US needs the -gate suffix.
My neurosis .. is indeed very powerful. I Just saw an account blacklisted for warning me of upcoming crackdowns on free speech.
Not to mention the pm's with personal threats. I guess I need some of that "Prozak" or whatever it is you guys eat legally by the handful to feel better.
Critical thinking is totally not tolerated on this topic. You find this normal?
It would be critical thinking if it was 1. critical 2. thinking. I don't have any prescriptions. However, I am concerned if you're saying you need them and aren't taking them.
Heh. That could be your first problem. As someone who also has, in the past, been a heavy user, I know there are side effects. One of those being paranoia and another being a inflammation of psychosis.
I am not by any means a heavy user. Last time I used was at a party with good friends about 6 months ago. I live in a very tiny village in the country, my entourage is mostly peace-and-love type of people so to be honest .. I am not under any great stress. Thanks for caring though.
I think this should be allowed only if discussion on whether Alex Jones is a government shill bent on distorting the public opinion of key issues to hide what real conspiracies might be going on that mysteriously rarely show up on /r/conspiracy. Free Speech and all.
I find it more likely that he's a shill for a corporation that wants to turn people against the current federal government system and then completely privatize and commercialize the world government.
Yeah, I don't actually believe he is a government shill. I just meant that if we should allow holocaust deniers to post here we should allow every single other retarded idea without any censorship or banning.
Obviously many people want this topic buried. Zionism is one of the best researched conspiracy to talk about, yet whenever it is mentionned downvotes come-a-pouring.
Ignorant and hateful? For not believing the story as presented to me?
This is the only arguments people can put forth when one questions the lies. Holocaust deniers, anti-semite, loony, hateful ... etc. Yet no one has countered the facts I presented. They can't because it's all a bumch of half-truths, half-myths.
Watch the links I posted and use your own judgement. If not blindly believing colonialist propaganda makes me an anti-semite, so be it.
Oh, and the mass-downvotes (over 100) happened within 45 mins, this is how down-vote brigades work. Regular users leave comments but there were very few comments within that first 45 minutes. For the past day, the votes have been going up normaly as regular users read the posts and clue in.
Banning "holocaust denial ism" aka Holocaust revisionist or what ever they are called is like banning people that deny the official story of 911 or other taboo things, you can't deny their freedom of speech.
Oh reallly... so it's been saying this to me for the last 2 weeks when i try to post to /r/conspiracy only... (i can post to other subreddits fine).
"Looks like you're either a brand new user or your posts have not been doing well recently. You may have to wait a bit to post again. In the meantime feel free to check out the reddiquette, join the conversation in a different thread, or verify your email address."
So i had submitted 4 stories successfully... and then I went a ranting on night... and got some strange replies from people like "You don't belong in this subreddit".... and then shortly thereafter I couldn't post anymore.
So, being a conspiracy forum.... I figured it was a conspiracy. Why wouldn't the conspiracy forum, in and of itself, be a giant conspiracy?
(Ultimately, I don't give a crap if I can post or not... What I do give a crap about is this armed revolution fear mongering nonsense, while the mainstream media is trying to push that "people are radicalized by the internet".)
Cross posting links to /r/conspiracy posts or specific comments from other subs is subject to a ban, depending on context.
*Any posts that attack the sub, users or the mods will be removed. Breaking this rule more than once can earn a ban.
One could argue that holocaust denial breaks rule 1.
Anti-Zionism = racism? Or even worse, (gasp) anti-semitism?
Ok. I am not surprised this is how people are shut-up, such fallacies are very much a way of preventing any discussion whatsoever on doubtful facts we have been asked ordered to take as absolute truth.
Come on. I never said Irving was a Saint. I admit he made enough slips to have him permanently discredited, and rest assure his life and family member's lives have pretty much been ruined.
Of course, a writer and public speaker is BOUND to have major slips. For example, Gandhi is renowned for his greatness in modern times, but was being labeled a terrorist in his active days. Gandhi was an outspoken racist and many even say a bisexual pedophile. Yet we all acknowledge he left a great legacy.
In the same vein, one can listen to any public figure, and I feel it is up to the individuals to judge what is worthy of hanging on to. I listen to documentaries, read books, take notes and verify the facts I read.
David Irving, discredited as he is for his hatred of Zionists has very insightful lectures and is one of the most published historians on the specifics of WWII. I am not saying the man is God, I am saying the man has made public lectures for many years and written over 30 books. Of course the mass of information he put forth is bound to contain wrongful statements. This does not mean it is 100% BS.
Pulling these phrases out of context, given to you heartily by the masses of special-interest groups that are bent on destroying him does not mean he had it all wrong. Many historians have revised their findings because of his research, and yes I have read his wikipedia page a few times but remember he has enormous opposition on the matter by very powerful groups, so of course do not expect anything positive to come out of Wkipedia for Irving.
Do yourself a favor, listen to a few of his lectures. Take notes, verify the facts. I do not want to convince you of anything, just look at the facts and judge for yourself instead of relying on wikipedia to base your opinions.
The holocaust happened, and many suffered. This is a fact. Up to this day, there was a LOT of propaganda and embelishment added to the story, this is also a fact. This is the main point I tried to make in this post's comments.
Well... As much as reddit supports free speech, it is privately owned with their own rules and free speech on the internet only goes so far as what the rules of a privately owned website allows.
If /r/conspiracy decides to make it a rule to not speak about holocaust denial, then there's really nothing that can be done about it. It's not breaking any state or federal laws nor reddit global rules nor violating the U.S. Constitution.
But I say continue to allow it since it is a valid conspiracy despite how offensive it can be to many people.
Just the fact that some countries (mine included) makes it illegal to revise or question the facts of just one singular historical event makes it a topic of great interest to r/conspiracy, would you not agree?
All these downvotes with no counter arguments and your post staying at 0 vote count indicate that a certain group of people really do not want this subject to be discussed on this sub.
If you care for karma, avoid this topic. If you care for the truth, do your research and post your findings here. There is a lot of propaganda on the subject that deserves to be set straight.
Notice how your posts mysteriously received 28 downvotes, yet not one counter-argument?
Special interest groups have "downvote brigades". This will never be a popular topic, and posts on "The" holocaust never stay long. Read my comments in this post if you want a few links.
Be quick though, they will probably be taken down in the near future.
Don't shout the word freedom or advocate free-speech. You will be down-voted to oblivion.
Unless ... you are like me and can pull a laugh out of it!
I gave you an upper but the shills are strong on this topic. 53 downvotes for your comment and counting, yet not one single counter-argument or reasonable explanation whatsoever. Truly enlightening, don't you think?
I was warned twice that speaking my mind on this topic, in this sub would not be torlerated. We can post hundreds and hundreds of articles on Boston Bombing though, those are well received.
I think you're being a bit paranoid. This has been linked to in other subs. Meaning that, people that normally wouldn't see your ideas, now do. Therefore down voting you for being what they see as crazy.
Oh boy. "Rockets". How many Israeli casualties are we talking about?
26 casualties since the past 10 years. Most of those deaths occurred during Israeli invasions of Palestinian territories, condemend by a shit-load of (ignored) bull-shit UN resolutions let us not forget.
Have you seen the Isreali map lately?!?!? What would you recommend the Palestinians do? Send flowers and hope for peace? Or maybe just wait until they are wiped out? Oh. Maybe they should turn to International court, or the UN to rid them of their oppressors? It seems International court was only useful for Nuremburg. The international laws meant to prevent genocide do not really apply for Palestinians, it seems. In fact, come to think of it ... International law is only applied when it serves western interests.
If your country was invaded and occupied in such a manner, would you be sending flowers and praying for peace, as your land and humand rights are stripped off slowly year after year?
Palestine, one of the poorest country in the world is a threat to Isreal, that boasts one of the most powerful armies in the world?
I've been trolled enough for today. Good-night sir.
157 comments
60 Old_Gumbo_McGee 2013-05-08
As a german I think denying the holocaust indicates severe brain damage. Although there is a law against it in germany I have no problem with these sort of posts showing up. It helps me to set tags to ignorant or racist people to see their comments in context on later encounters. I also think this sub of all subs should be open to any idea no matter how crazy it sounds.
6 karadan100 2013-05-08
There's been three occasions in my life when i've had to call someone out (in real life, not across the web) for being quite astonishingly ignorant by bleating out holocaust denying bullshit. Every time it has happened, some other douchebag has come to the aid of said denyer citing 'freedom of speech'. It's at that point on every occasion i've had to remind them that i'm also free to start hitting them in the face as hard as i can.
Fucking cretins think they're being 'edgy' and original. I'm happy to show them exactly what my fist thinks of that.
-7 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Hitting someone in the face has nothing to do with free speech.
Just out of curiousity ... are you vaguely aware there is currently an ongoing genocide in Palestine, a "Palestinian Holocaust" funded in great parts with US dollars that should be dealt with, or is the Jewish one that happened 70 years ago with lots of propaganda included the only one that matters to you?
Downvotes will pour, but if you take time to watch the video you will see for yourself many of the facts that make no sense. People have been brainwashed into throwing out any form of critical thinking when it comes to this touchy subject.
Sorry for not believing everything I was taught. Sorry for caring more about the current ongoing US-paid genocide/holocaust in Palestine than the one that happened nearly 70 years ago and is still being paid for.
I expect the usual response of being called an asshole, ignorant, etc. by people that will give me reference to NY times articles and no valid counter-arguments to the claim that the event is filled with propaganda and half-truths that are still taught in schools today around Israel supporting countries while many historians have even backed down on the claims of mass exterminations with gas-chambers.
I do not deny there was any suffering, that no one was killed. I feel for the surviving family members and truly believe even one death in a conflict is one too many. The crimes against Palestine is just another example of the brain-washed hypocrisy of the west when it comes to the Zionist agenda.
4 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
Why can't people know that both exist?
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
How I wish I knew. Many many people have been asking that question for decades.
It seems one side has the upper-hand, is being financed by all major powers in the onlooking western world and is hell-bent on destroying the other out of existence.
0 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
But it's not as if anyone is trying to hide the Palestinian mistreatment.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Many things are hidden in plain sight. Walk around, and ask your fellow countrymen how they feel about the situation in Palestine.
Some won't have a clue. Others will say 'damn Arabs 'n terr'rists deserve the shit they get. Yet others will justify it saying they are always attacking Israel (with sticks and stones need I remind you).
The majority of the populace is quite clueless on what's happening outside their hometown and respective countries.
Sure, some are waking up and maybe just maybe at some point we can hope the awakened ones will reach a high enough number to actually bring on some change, but time is running out. And the censoring and laws are getting harsher day by day. Drones will soon be patroling over U.S.A, enforcing laws that prevent any criticism of those in power.
I am sorry that I will leave the world in a worse state than when I came into it, and could not really do anything about it. That's life, I guess but to my credit ... I had a hell of a good time.
4 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
Lemme stop you right there.
You -do- realize they have rockets, right? And that they actually have weapons? Not the Palestinian people, but Hamas? Who fire the rockets constantly into Israel then use their own people as shields when Israel tries to take out the launch sites so they can exploit their deaths to make Israel look worse then they already are?
Also what does the second half have to do with the situation in Gaza and Israel?
1 herpaderpderp9 2013-05-08
Hitler did nothing wrong.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Oh boy. "Rockets". How many Israeli casualties are we talking about?
26 casualties since the past 10 years. Most of those deaths occurred during Israeli invasions of Palestinian territories, condemend by a shit-load of (ignored) bull-shit UN resolutions let us not forget.
Have you seen the Isreali map lately?!?!? What would you recommend the Palestinians do? Send flowers and hope for peace? Or maybe just wait until they are wiped out? Oh. Maybe they should turn to International court, or the UN to rid them of their oppressors? It seems International court was only useful for Nuremburg. The international laws meant to prevent genocide do not really apply for Palestinians, it seems. In fact, come to think of it ... International law is only applied when it serves western interests.
If your country was invaded and occupied in such a manner, would you be sending flowers and praying for peace, as your land and humand rights are stripped off slowly year after year?
Palestine, one of the poorest country in the world is a threat to Isreal, that boasts one of the most powerful armies in the world?
I've been trolled enough for today. Good-night sir.
2 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
If you actually read what I've said, Hamas isn't good for Palestine either. They allow their own people to get killed to use as propaganda and they engineer their own people to get killed to do so. Yea, of course the rockets aren't as effective as they should be but they are still rockets being fired and still have a chance to kill people. Not to mention they've been attacking Israel for decades from Palestine. If it hasn't been successful for decades, what makes you think it will be successful today?
So good on people like Steven Hawking and Amnesty to bring to light what's going on but bad on Hamas who exploit the deaths of their own people for propaganda.
But hey, if logic and facts are what trolls you into slithering out of a conversation then so be it.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
I did read what you said. I'll answer your pitiful rethoric, then let's see if you can answer mine.
Hamas is most often depicted in our zionist owned medias as a radical Islamic fundamentalist organization. They are also pointed to being THE major roadblock to the peace process. Truth is, Israel has no intention whatsoever of pursuing the peace process, Hamas has nothing to do with it.
Civilians have come to depend on Hamas that takes care of all basic services best they can in the occupied territories. This includes maintaining and rebuilding the administrational structures that are repeatedly targeted and destroyed. Taking care of schooling facilities, minimal as they may be and distributing food and minimal health care. Coordinating the various International aid groups that sometimes are allowed in Gaza. They do have a military agenda, as would any occupied / invaded country and saying otherwise would be hypocrisy.
To further enlighten you on the current situation of Hamas, here is an article from last week coming from a news source you would deem as being respectable seeing it is Isrealian.
Do take notice they are saying the organisation is maintaining peace and stop feeding me that propagandish bullshit. In other words, Hamas is no longer active militarily against Israel and without Hamas, Palestinian civilians would be totally left to their own plight. The world does not give a fuck about Palestine in case you have not noticed.
Now, your turn.
You did see the map, right?
Considering they will be wiped off the map completely if this continues (this is the goal, after all), what should the Palestinians do?
I will be happy to hear your response on this. On a closing note, here is a link to a letter Albert Einstein wrote 55 years ago to the New York Time.
While you are there, (if you bother to read this at all), take note of all the quotes made by various Isreali leaders and politiciens at the bottom of that page. Sickening if I may say so myself and not worthy of human behavior.
I ask again, and my question begs an answer, what would you do if your country was being wiped off the face of the map, all paid for by US dollars, while the whole world watches and does nothing?
People like you that believe in and promote the zionist propaganda are actually way more harmful to Palestinians than Hamas ever was. People that fight for their freedom merit respect.
Now that Hamas is keeping things quiet, let us see how fast Israel will put an end to building illegal settlements, let us see if they will dismantle and give back the land they stole as stated in 65 broken UN resolutions. Palestine has none, in case you were curious.
Please. Don't forget to at least maybe try to answer my question. I don't really expect you to come up with a sensible answer. But hey, try and surprise me with something sensible. Let's see how you justify a modern day
genocideholocaust this time.0 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Obviously. I will not take this personnaly, your comment history hints you think very highly of yourself, but I think it's a front. No constructive arguments or coherent information, just a list of put-downs directed at various users that you feel are smarter than you. I smell a lack of self-confidence.
Low self-esteem sucks, give yourself a break friend.
3 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
0 MTCONE 2013-05-08
You have a single digit IQ. I would love to meet you in person.
:-*
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Trolls will be trolling. Even your reputable Jewish historians agree the 6 million number was made up and that gas chambers were not used to kill people on a grand scale. Those facts have long since been debunked, many many times.
It's ok. Some people still believe the earth is flat and if I can respect their belief I guess I can respect yours, flawed as they may be.
Do NOT follow the links I posted, your brain will overload when you see the lies exposed.
2 karadan100 2013-05-08
Links please, or you're just a lunatic.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Ok. Here are a few excerpts, Google the names yourself.
This page has references/quotes from a few Jewish names.
David Irving is a Jew himself. Google his videos, read his books you will have tons of info. This man has been cited by many other historians.
Ernst Zundel also dared to question the 6 million. At his trial in Canada the Supreme Court had this to say "THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENSE." For daring to question, he is in a German prison today. When the Jews say 6 million died then you had better beileve it OR ELSE!!! Haven´t you noticed that charges of "hate crime" only apply to Jews? Have you ever heard of an Italian, Japanese, and heaven forbid, a German, ever being the victim of hate crime?
Norman Finkelstein lost his proffesorship for exposing the "Holocaust Industry".
There. All in all you have 6 names in a 5 minute search. I could find more, but my role in life is not to educate you.
Good-day to you friend.
2 karadan100 2013-05-08
You just listed a bunch of fucking holocaust deniers, all of which have been found to be liars and fraudsters and have a fair amount of jail time between them...
Whatever, you holocaust denying asshole. Keep drinking the koolaid, bro.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Norman Finkelstein, for one did not go to jail. He has very powerful lectures that often focus on the Palestinian situations and the fact the UN does fuck all depsite the 65 broken resolutions. Maybe you should educate yourself but I am guessing whatever I say, you would never believe anything but the official story that ensures your homeland fat, juicy sums of money to help in the
extermination efforts againstHolocaust of Palestine.Of course anyone that questions anything whatsoever on the "official" propaganda version will be dismissed without a thought by you and your kind.
Sorry to have wasted time on a war-mongering brain-washed individual that supports a regime bent on finshing the task they started 50 some years ago: Eliminating all Palestinians on the land they stole.
2 karadan100 2013-05-08
Conspiratards always say 'educate yourself' as a way to seem more well informed, when in fact it is you who've pigeon-holed yourself into a conspiracy which isn't there. You also keep trying to divert this to a conversation about Palestine.. We were talking about the holocaust..
Anyway, i'm not going to enable your delusions anymore, you loon.
Goodbye.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
No hard feelings. I have about half a dozen Jewish friends and only one is Zionist / Pro-Israel. Needless to say we do not talk politics, yet have very interesting conversations on other topics nonetheless.
If it's allright with you, we can agree to disagree and do away with the name calling and childish non constructive blabbering.
Peace to you and loved ones, my friend.
2 ChainedNmaimed 2013-05-08
Millions upon millions more have died in whatever other mass genocide you can fucking think of... to say anything negative about this one group of people and then to be called an anti-semite/racist is the biggest cop out to avoid the truth from seeing the light of day.
-43 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
22 lobf 2013-05-08
So, is use of the word "kike" a bannable offense or not?
14 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
It's a racist term, so it's against the rules.
9 lobf 2013-05-08
It's specifically and objectively against the rules they have set out in the sidebar as far as I can tell. So I'm wondering if any mods have taken note since I reported it.
0 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
It got taken care of now.
2 lobf 2013-05-08
All we know is that the comment was deleted.
4 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
Had a mod message me that it was taken care of.
1 lobf 2013-05-08
Does that mean he was banned? Or just that they deleted the comment?
0 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
Uhm.. deleted comment. you can ask them yourself if he was banned but that's not my concern.
0 lobf 2013-05-08
...then why did you keep responding to my questions about whether or not this guy was going to be banned?
0 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
/shrug
0 lobf 2013-05-08
Foo.
-1 ChainedNmaimed 2013-05-08
can you tell me specifically how "kike" being directed towards someone who worships judaism is racist?
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
1 ChainedNmaimed 2013-05-08
ya, see "nigger" is being directed towards someone who's skin is black, regardless of what religion they follow. Being discriminated against for having skin of a different color is ridiculous, HOWEVER being discriminated against for saying anything negative about a specific religion and in some countries going to jail for it is beyond ridiculous.
15 ffxpwns 2013-05-08
Just so you know, trying to incorporate hateful slang for Jews into silly phrases does not help your insane claims.
-15 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Although I agree in part with your premise, please understand the Jews are not to blame. It is rather Zionism that controls the political scene wich in turn triggered the events. Hating Zionism is like hating war or communism. Hating Jews is racism.
In 500 years German children will still believe the same story because it is protected from being revised. Though, to be fair slowly but surely the truth is coming out here and there. This page indicates just how many times the death toll has been lowered over the years. Wikipedia and our history text-books still indicate the magical 6 million figure that was decided upon way before the actual events even happened.
7 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
death toll diminishing? Nope. Total death toll was already at 12 million with Jewish deaths alone making just under half of that. But
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunday-review/the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
claims that the death toll may now be up to 20 million West/East Europeans and Russians of all various backgrounds.
-13 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
N.Y Times? Is that the best source you can find? You are funny I will take it as a joke.
In Russia alone Stalin killed over 20 million people during those years, many of them Jews. Yet Stalin has nowhere near the same coverage as Hitler.
This page shows - with verifiable references and pictures of the Aushwitz plaque how the numbers of Aushwitz death toll has been lowered over the years again and again... and again.
Why would this be?
We went from 6 millions to ... 135,000 to 140,000 according to Red Cross Tracing documents. The plaque is now set at 1.5 millions. Quite a difference nonetheless.
I think 1 death is too many, I do not want to minimize the suffering of those people the point I am trying to make is ... why would they make us believe in the 6 millions magic number, when it was bullshit and made up long before the war?
I felt used and taken as a sucker by the people that educated me on this, everyone all around has believed everything blindly and questioning it makes one pass off as a heartless, despicable piece of shit. Being a critical thinker should not bring this type of response. Nonetheless, I am sorry for having offended anyone that misunderstood the point I was trying to make.
6 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
Kay.
3 [deleted] 2013-05-08
Says the guy who linked to Jeff Rense's sight multiple times.
5 shoahwar 2013-05-08
Hey man, citing conspiracy theorists as support of conspiracy claims is legit on this board.
-2 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Yes. I appreciate very much that the facts he states are all referenced, many are veryfiable and many come from (gasp) Jewish sources and credible (neutral) organisations. Ad hominem attacks are about the only option you people have to justify your opinions.
The article parent posted from NY Times was titled "Holocaust just got more shocking". All that money and energy spent on trying to bring more horror to a 70 year old nightmare could have been spent on putting an end to the currently on-going genocide/holocaust in Palestine, that is paid for in large part by US taxpayer money.
3 [deleted] 2013-05-08
I'm only responding to your dismissal of The New York Times (read: one of the most respected papers in the world). That isn't an ad hominem attack because I'm not saying your source discredits your argument, I'm saying you using a far less well established source (or rather, a source established as unreliable) makes criticising the NYT hypocritical.
They aren't alternatives. Are you suggesting we cut funding to everything that isn't linked directly to an impending threat until we resolve every major problem in the world?
-2 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
I will just leave this here for your personal benefit. It is a long read, but very much worth it. This paper is referenced thousand of times by other articles so it does seem to present a somewhat popular view.
US medias are owned by Zionists, and NY-T has been proven again and again to be pro-zionist. All major US medias are totally pro-Israel. Articles abound where the crimes against Palestine are passed off as self-defence and holocaust numbers are revised joyfully (revision is not illegal for them). Sadly, people take it all in hook-line-and-sinker. Anyone stepping up to the plate as I did will get shot down in flames, with little or very weak counter-arguments.
Isn't the main purpose of documenting "The Holocaust" to make sure this never happens again? I remember hearing that slogan somewhere ... "Never again" ... I guess this only applied to one culture because I can surely see the Palestinian territories shrinking year after year ... their people being deprived of human dignity and hope, that after all ... we should all be entitled to. Sorry if my opinions differ from the majority, I respect whatever you want to believe in, and understand not everyone has this attitude towards people that think differently.
Cheers and peace to you and loved ones, friend.
38 AxelHarver 2013-05-08
I say disallow because by this point in time I think the question of whether or not the holocaust actually happened is irrefutable.
-41 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
29 AnSq 2013-05-08
I don't think that "debate" is the right term for it...
20 juuular 2013-05-08
Yep. Definitively and without a doubt.
10 Red_Oktoberfest 2013-05-08
I think it was about 10 minutes sometime in '45.
-55 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
A proper education with material from proper historians would probably swagger your opinion. HINT - David Cole, David Irving
The history we learned in school is very questionable.
Holocaust is a term coined for a very specific agenda: To bring on guilt and shame to the masses in exchange of financial retributions. There have been many genocides in history. Why did the Jewish hardships merit a specific reserved word, that can not be used for other genocides? Many of those massacres killed more people than the WWII tragedy. Colonialists killed over 100 million indians when we colonized North-America. Yet this is not and will never be talked about in great details in our school rooms. The people who decide what we are taught have an agenda.
30 AxelHarver 2013-05-08
So then what should be called into question is the nature under which these events transpired, and the details surrounding them. To outright deny the holocaust is an insult to the millions who died not only in the holocaust, but in every other genocide. In fact, I read not too long ago in this very subreddit that Hitler is quoted to have said something along the lines of. "Kill without mercy. After all, who remembers the Armenians?"
-23 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Friend. Just a simple fact, to give you something to ponder.
Stalin, in WWII was ally. Joseph Stalin did not intentionally target Jews, but he did amass quite a large amount of killings. Stalin killed over 20 million people in his purges and five-year plans. Look it up. Look up the Jewish holocaust in Wikipedia, you will notice the number has been brought down from 6 millions ( a pre-determined holy number) to around 1.5 millions.
Why do we NEVER hear about the 20 million Russians (many Jews in there too)? Why no financial retribution to Russian victims? Stalin killed many many times more people than Hitler ever has. In Russia Stalin is still considered a hero by many of the older generation.
History is written by the victors, and this sub is so full of shills it's quite creepy. Notice how the downvotes pile up yet no one has any counter-arguments?
21 khamul787 2013-05-08
Um. We do. Every history class I've ever been in or heard of has mentioned them.
2 faggyfagfaglol 2013-05-08
I never learned about it until after I graduated.
2 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Exactly my point. But don't waste too much time in this thread, the vote counter shows very weird results, still 0 upvotes when the subject is obviously a darling of many conspiracy fans.
I smell that there are people in this thread paid to blast this topic down into oblivion.
1 faggyfagfaglol 2013-05-08
I'm guessing that's sarcasm, because I kinda doubt that anyone is spending money on reddit votes over a mere comment.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Really? I wish it was sarcasm. I wish I was that naive.
Follow a few links on this web search and see for yourself.
2 800 000 results, surely there could possibly be some truth in some of these stories.
-1 faggyfagfaglol 2013-05-08
A Google search doesn't demonstrate anything. There's a trillion results no matter the search criteria. Take off the tinfoil hat and act like an adult.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Ok. I thought the first page listed showed enough meat to at least instill doubt in any critical thinker.
How about a link to a handbook for the promotion of Israel? These groups work in unison, as a team and can manage very positive results as you can see in my comment history on this particular post only.
Or another article stating clearly the magnitude of the scam?
Just looking at this threads vote count makes it pretty obvious to me this topic is taboo, censored. I respect your opinion, though I fail to see how you rationalise the reasoning behind it.
Too many results in the search, means it's not true. Oh well.
2 ChainedNmaimed 2013-05-08
he already pulled the "take your tinfoil hat off" bullshit... he is not worth any ones breath. these downvotes are fucking ridiculous.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Indeed my friend. The good thing about severe unwarranted mass-downvotes is that it shows plainly how much this topic is censored.
Any rational human being with a brain can see this. Sadly, not all humans are rational.
Thanks for your support it's good to see someone stand-up to what amounts to a severe clamp-down on free speech.
-18 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
We were shown movies and had these long talks on those horrible things the Germans did. Russia may have been mentioned at your history classes, but not in the (Canadian) schools I attended.
The Russians 20 millions deaths does not receive even close to the attention and mediatisation as the "Holocaust" that took 1.5 millions lives in Germany. Oh, and they never had any kind of retributions either.
18 lobf 2013-05-08
It's because the systematic targeting of a minority within a country's boders are more shocking than a big war. I certainly learned about the 20 million Russians who died in Hitler's invasion of the USSR, and I don't mean to trivialize their deaths, but people are expected to die in a big war. It's much more frightening for a government to brutally and systematically target it's own people.
3 Revofev92 2013-05-08
I went to a Canadian high school, and I learned all about the Soviet camps and killings, as well as the deaths of Russians during wartime. Where did you go?
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
You may of had a teacher that was insighful enough to tell you more than the educational program dictated, good for you but I can assure you I have never heard of any highshool with anything that touches Russian history. I went to school in Northern B.C, the 4 kids I raised went to school in Quebec. Never seen anything about Russia on the curriculum.
Everybody in the world knows 6 millions jews were killed in gas chambers by Germans. The figure is made up, (we don't know how many jews were killed), and the gas chambers were not used to kill jews, this has been proven to be propaganda and historians no longer push this narrative.
Yet it is still taught, word for word as told above in every history book you pick up. Heck, the death count in academic book is going up, while reputed historians are bringing it down.
Nevertheless, much as the event was indeed very tragic and horrible, there is a genocide / holocaust going on right now that Stephen Harper himself is partially funding. Did they teach you about Palestine? How their territory is shrinking year after year bit by bit?
Maybe we could concentrate on not letting history repeat itself instead of bickering over things that happened 70 years ago while closing our eyes on the atrocities we are guilty of funding.
My 2 cents.
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
I am not denying "The" Holocaust. I am stating the story is loaded with massive propaganda.
Questioning this event always brings this response. We are anti-semites, if we question a fact, we are insensible and deny the whole thing. Read my comments and you will see for yourself I have stated many times that yes many jews were killed and it was a horrible event.
But the story was presented by the allies in a very deceiving manner. 6 million jews were not gassed at Aushwitz, contrary to what is still taught in our schools. Listen to the videos yourself and figure it out for yourself if you want, the information is all there and both videos are made by jews so we cannot really pretend they are anti-semites.
6 millions jews, everyone knows this number yet no one remembers how many Americans died in WWII. How many Russians. How many Chinese (+20 millions). The only number we remember is 6 million. I call bullshit and many others have too.
Anyways, I have stated all the facts and David Irving (another Jew) documentaries is what got me thinking, I suggest you google him.
Being labeled a holocaust denier and an anti-semite is about the only counter arguments these people can spew. Yet I am neither anti-semite nor a Holocaust denier. I am an avid reader of history who started to get interested in hoaxes in history and this is a major one.
If believing between 750 000 and 1.5 million people died in Aushwitz instead of 6 millions makes me a holocaust denier and an anti-semite, so be it. No one countered the facts because the information has already been debunked and the 6 million figure is a myth, as are the gas chambers supposedly used for mass extermination. Does this make me a holocaust denier? Watch the vids and see for yourself how some Jews have lied their ass off. And they still do to this day in all our history books.
21 khamul787 2013-05-08
Just because he agrees with you doesn't mean he isn't one of the most discredited historians in, well, history.
-2 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Am I the only that notices the mass-down votes yet not one single counter-argument?
I guess bringing down karma is how arguments are won with this particular topic. Why bother with silly "facts", after all.
-21 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Just because he is discredited does not mean he is wrong. Read his books, or watch his documentaries. He is actually one of the only living historians to have interviewed German officers that were close to Hitler, interviewed many Jews, wrote many books and articles detailing the joke that we call the "Nuremburg trial".
The Zionists have destroyed the man, but his work lives on. Read up on the subject with an open mind and look up the facts, you will find history was presented to us in a very distorted manner. I know my view is not popular as it goes against all we have been taught, and please do not think I am racist because I could not care less about Jews, I even have some close Jewish friends. Of course the man was not popular he was pointing out all the lies the allies laid down as history. Many historians have even given up on the famous "gas chamber killings" because of his very hard to rebute proofs. The gas chambers were de-loussing chambers to kill lice, that was the main cause of typhus. The "extermination camps" were in fact work camps, to assist in the war effort. This is today acknowledged by many other historians, yet the original story lives on because it sounds better.
10 jacquesaustin 2013-05-08
If your argument is to replace the word holocost with genocide, that's a legitimate debate, but very different from denying he actual deaths did not happen , no matter what you call them
-16 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
I never said no one died. I am saying there have been many many other genocides, and many of those with way more casualties.
But the Jewish tragedy has been exploited (and still is to this day) to maximise retributions and justify their own agenda. How can one not take notice, there are hundreds of books and a dozen movies on the jewish holocaust, yet virtually nothing on any of the other known genocides.
11 jacquesaustin 2013-05-08
Well if you are saying the genocide was used to forward an ongoing political goal, I don't think anyone denies that either. Every single politician worth their salt can use any success or tragedy to advance their previous positions. On a smaller scale, with all the public shootings, democrats are using those things to further their agenda.
I think another reason it gets more publicity than other is first it was recorded to some degree in films and pictures, there are still people living who participated. That makes for better documentary and television. I'm assuming that since we're speaking in English you're either in north american or Europe. All of the books and documentaries tend to be based, western perceptions, WWII was a pretty earth shattering event, I'm sure there is was a desire to learn all aspects.
Another reason this one gets more publicity is because for examples the Stalin purges, Mao's death march, Cambodia... most of them tend to in countries that limit access to the west, and are events that for many years were still actively being denied.
TL:DR Jewish people had good PR reps, were able to classify genocide as holocost, used suffering in the war to advance their political agenda, like every other government in the world.
The world Holocaust becoming a proper noun makes sense, it was used to describe massacres before, I'm sure in one or two hundres years after another massive genocide, the events during WWII night lost its proper noun status.
-9 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Just seeing the mass downvotes my comments triggered is a good enough proof that many people deny anything that counters the "official" story. Especially in this sub, where many are aware that Zionism has been at the center of many political ploys, do you not find this surprising that most posts that scratch the subject get downvoted to oblivion?
I mean, it's not like the information is not out there. It is all hidden in plain sight. Think about it, why is this historic event protected by law from being revised? The ONLY historic event protected by law from even being discussed. Is this not a big enough indicator they have a story to protect and that they do not want changed at all?
I have believed blindly for many years, today I believe nothing until I see facts myself. Although this will be mass-downvoted, I encourage you to dig into the subject and draw your own conclusions. In another comment on this post, I left the 2 names of historians that dared question the so-called truth. Google + YouTube can do the rest for you. I can assure you will see enough evidence from these 2 historians to question what you were taught on "the holocaust". Never mind they were discredited, this is totally to be expected as were the mass downvotes on my comments. Just get the facts and judge for yourself.
Of course, sticking to the official version makes life easier and brings more karma but I prefer to gather facts and make up my own mind. Too many things in the official story did not add up.
Karma is made to keep the sheeples happy, the only use I have for that crap is to indicate what the shills and zionists support groups are monitoring.
4 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
Your comments don't get down voted because you're wrong. It's the way you say it. I know about all sorts of genocides that have happened. From Cambodia to Russia but your responses and the way you word things makes you sound like an asshole.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Yes. My point is everyone knows "6 million were gassed by Germans". The whole world knows and to this day it is taught in all Pro-Israel countries. Even if the 6 million figure is made up. Even if historians today acknowledge gas-chambers were not used to exterminate people. The myth lives on. I am not a "Holocaust denier" because I totally agree many many people died and suffered. I am a Holocaust revisionist, because I have discovered and verified many facts that point to massive propaganda.
Armenia (1.5 Million) , Cambodia (2+Millions), Russia (20+ Millions), North America (100 Millions +) , Rwanda (1.7 Millions) are all horrible massacres that are very rarely if ever brought up in our culture. Nowhere even CLOSE to the publicity the massacre in Germany garnered. Do you not feel the need to ponder on the reasons for this? Do you not feel the need to ponder on why a massacre in Palestine is acceptable, right now today in 2013 whereas what happened in 1940's needs to be perpetuated with hundreds of books and dozens of movies?
Here is a movie, just for you. Just do me a favor, I am not a beggar by nature but I beg you to watch this with an open mind and see for yourself how we are constantly being lied and manipulated by special interest groups.
My 2 cents. Cheers, peace to you and loved ones my friend.
2 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
I'm not, nor have I ever said, that genocide is acceptable. These historians you speak of. Do they really exist, or are they figment of your imagination? I know a few and this doesn't ring a bell with any of them.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Ok. Please be objective, and take time to read this short post.
You will see the names of a few historians in there, as well as a few myths that are debunked.
Many others have since come forward, but as you can see from this post the topic is very heavily censored, people questionning anything on this topic get a shitload of opposition and names called. Please, take a little time to follow the links I posted and judge for yourself the validity of what you were taught.
2 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
Granted I can believe numbers were distorted. The one woman who said she didn't see anything isn't a good source. Eyewitness accounts are good for nothing. Just saying.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Do you honestly believe that all those downvotes on my comments, the fact that the post is at 0 votes is a result of regular users expressing their opinions? I had heard about this type of response before but it is the first time I experience a targeted crackdown on my opinions.
1 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
I think you're being a bit paranoid. This has been linked to in other subs. Meaning that, people that normally wouldn't see your ideas, now do. Therefore down voting you for being what they see as crazy.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Sure, you can pass me off as being paranoid.
Yet, here are a few things to consider.
I can assure you that I have absolutely no emotional attachment to karma.
Usually when comments have 20, 30 downvotes one sees posts with logical counter arguments of some kind. Notice how some very rational comments on the thread get mass down-voted without any logical explanation. These are not trollish or offensive in nature, so the only reasonable explanation I have is downvote brigades.
Last but not least, putting all paranoia aside, how can you be 100% certain that articles like this one and this one and this one and this one among hundreds, is all fake and made up? Do you believe powerful special interest groups would be above monitoring and censoring sensible information?
I live a very peaceful and calm life. Will be getting up tomorrow and spend the day in the garden. This does not mean I close my eyes and trust everything blindly around me. Yes, I am very weary of all major media outlets, because they are mostly government spokespersons and lord knows government is not to be trusted but that is another story. Thanks for hearing me out yet again, I am not "crazy" nor paranoiac by nature. When it comes to this sub and other informatin medias though, seeing how a simply **asking* if we can post on a specific historic event draws so many downvotes, I mean seriously???
If you are still as confident and certain of your world-view as you were before this discussion, then good for you. Personnaly, I prefer verifying most everything before I put faith in it. 45 years of being lied to by the people I thought were there to protect me has made me reconsider everything I was taught. From the Moon Landings to the JFK Assasinations to Vietnam false flags all the way up to 7/7 and 9/11, I think many people are just doomed to be forever mentally devoted to the illusion that government is their friend and acts in their best interest when the reality is that nothing could be further from the truth.
Peace to you friend, see you around.
1 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
I have no doubt as to 9/11 and 7/7. They were perpetrated by extremist groups, yet you do have points about not trusting our government, and hating special interest groups. Yet I also have no doubts that the people in charge are just as fallible as the rest of us. If the government really thought these people knew the truth. They wouldn't be allowed to share it. That's how I feel. I also have no desire it fear of them. I'm more than capable of taking care of myself in all but the most drastic of situations. I'm more the type to just see what happens and respond accordingly.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
I do not hate special interests groups, I take them for what they are: organisations that manipulate public opinions for their agendas by various means such as:
These groups have a shitload of money, and spend it to influence public opinion according to their agendas. This seemed overly evident on this particular post, if you still have doubts and cannot believe this sub is censored, just read up on this users history.
1 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
Everything is censored. There's no way around it. Start your own forum, eventually you'll censor it.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Well. I admire your brazenness. I actually had to think and ponder on this a good ten minutes before answering. I enjoy thinking, so thanks.
Yes, obviously I would probably have to censor somewhere along the line. Off-topic posts, including spam and other junk posts would be dropped. Things on topic would stay.
Considering we are in /r/conspiracy , and that we can talk about all sorts of conspiracy theories ranging from Illuminati to 9/11 to faked moon landings, even lizard people for pete's sake ...
Why would posts or most any information related to "The" holocaust be censored?
Why would I receive massive downvotes and personal threats by pm for stating my opinion, which is still quite moderate since I do not deny the events happened?
Why is it even illegal for non-jews to question or revise this particular historic event only in Pro-Israel countries?
I am an old man and don't really have much to do with personal threats and warnings sent to my inbox. It only shows me how radical some of these people can be, and I am happy they are wasting precious time on someone that will be out laboring in the field most of the summer not even thinking about these matters, instead of annoying other people. What worries me is the up-coming generations. My grand-children, your generation and those to come.
Having a taboo subject like this indicates people have something to hide and protect. But why?
I have a clue, and I will say it. The "holocaust" retribution business is a multi-billion dollars per year industry. Heck, if you count all the foreign aid they receive from the western powers, you can add a few billions more.
Many people depend on these retributions for various reasons. These retribution packages and foreign aid funding could be what is protected.
Please, I would be more than happy and grateful to hear your take on my above 3 questions.
And on a parting note my loyal friend that stayed on until the thread's end, here is a video that explains clearly the things I am afraid of for you people in coming times. Sadly, it seems the path is already pretty much laid out and things are going as planned for the people that own us.
Cheers, take care.
1 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
To be honest, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I just think most people don't like opinions that are different than theirs.
There is a huge emotional element involved. That and my answer to one.
It's not illegal everywhere. It's just frowned upon. Other than that I have no answer.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
In 5 years of Redditing, I have had many many diffrences of opinions. Never one that reaches close to that many downvotes and involves threats via PM's.
The emotional element is indeed exploited to the max, backed with fallacies and propaganda. The methodology works very well as we all can see from the Americans blindly supporting of Zionism, though most are clueless on the subject.
Social-media shills are a very real conspiracy.
Thanks for being honest in not being to answer my question. I can only say before moving on that Palestinians are desperate and do not know what to do either. Their pleas are ignored and unheard, Israel is the only voice we hear.
1 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
I agree the Palestinians deserve recognition and a home. I just don't buy into a lot of other conspiracy theories.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Yes. And this is actually a good thing.
A little recap for you on the situation concerning my comment history. Being a computer programmer / database administrator, I easily notice data patterns and trends in my computing habits.
Posting a comment on my 5 year old account predictably garners on average between -2 and +5 votes, with occasional peaks on both ends of the spectrum. On a 24 hour timespan after the comment is posted, the votes trickle in. My posts are mostly respectful of others and non-trollish, so I get more upvotes that downvotes. Not that it matters, this is just to explain the trend of my data.
Yesterday, I posted about a dozen comments. The first few comments brought on a barrage of immediate downvotes, over 100 downvotes within one hour of posting. Very few comments on most of the downvotes. This in itself made my spider senses tingle. I had read about others being censored but had never thought it could happen on my account.
I woke this morning to find the regular upvote pattern of regular users had trickled in through the night, bringing up +30 votes on yesterdays comments.
I can assure you, there is no emotional distress over this, I do not even feel it is a conspiracy since I have found much more convincing evidence on other accounts. I am just stating plain facts that clearly indicate lightning fast mass downvotes on controversial topics.
Check it out for yourself, someday maybe you will experience this yourself and hopefully remember this conversation where I pointed out the obvious to you.
See you around, nice talking to you.
1 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
You too. I'll keep it in mind.
9 juuular 2013-05-08
Many people do use the term holocaust to describe similar tragedies of widespread genocide, kind of like any slight scandal in the US needs the -gate suffix.
-11 [deleted] 2013-05-08
enjoy your time speaking your mind freely, soon, in this sub, you will not be allowed to
doubt it not
-11 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
This sub is quite creepy bro, wtf gives with all the downvotes yet not one valid counter argument whatsoever? I smell shills ...
3 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
It's impossible to argue fantasy. That's why your neurosis works so well.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
My neurosis .. is indeed very powerful. I Just saw an account blacklisted for warning me of upcoming crackdowns on free speech.
Not to mention the pm's with personal threats. I guess I need some of that "Prozak" or whatever it is you guys eat legally by the handful to feel better.
Critical thinking is totally not tolerated on this topic. You find this normal?
2 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
It would be critical thinking if it was 1. critical 2. thinking. I don't have any prescriptions. However, I am concerned if you're saying you need them and aren't taking them.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Ok. So questioning history is not 1. Critical 2. Thinking?
I understand, you have beliefs that are important to hold on to and I can respect that.
I do not use chemical / commercial drugs. I go for the illegal stuff that is non-addictive and offers many health benefits.
2 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
Heh. That could be your first problem. As someone who also has, in the past, been a heavy user, I know there are side effects. One of those being paranoia and another being a inflammation of psychosis.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
I am not by any means a heavy user. Last time I used was at a party with good friends about 6 months ago. I live in a very tiny village in the country, my entourage is mostly peace-and-love type of people so to be honest .. I am not under any great stress. Thanks for caring though.
2 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
Just saying I've seen it a lot. Just be safe and don't do anything crazy.
15 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
This is a troll post, to filter out the who's who in the sub.
11 juuular 2013-05-08
I think this should be allowed only if discussion on whether Alex Jones is a government shill bent on distorting the public opinion of key issues to hide what real conspiracies might be going on that mysteriously rarely show up on /r/conspiracy. Free Speech and all.
7 GarrioValere 2013-05-08
I find it more likely that he's a shill for a corporation that wants to turn people against the current federal government system and then completely privatize and commercialize the world government.
1 juuular 2013-05-08
Yeah, I don't actually believe he is a government shill. I just meant that if we should allow holocaust deniers to post here we should allow every single other retarded idea without any censorship or banning.
1 shoahwar 2013-05-08
Agreed good sir
-2 brock_lee 2013-05-08
If you don't like it, ignore it. Otherwise, people are entitled to their opinions, and entitled to speak them.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Obviously many people want this topic buried. Zionism is one of the best researched conspiracy to talk about, yet whenever it is mentionned downvotes come-a-pouring.
-4 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
1 catfish777 2013-05-08
You just broke the equivalency :(
-11 censword 2013-05-08
The whole point of reddit is to crowd source censorship. Having mods remove articles from the voting system defeats the entire system.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
This topic is very obviously heavily censored.
My 2 cents.
-11 videodays 2013-05-08
I think it should be allowed. However I have not looked into this so I don't know if there can actually be made a case to support such a claim.
If that is even remotely possible then I definitely think it should be allowed.
Personally if someone is able to make a good case for it then I would be interested in looking at it.
Threads about this subject can come in the form of questions, I strongly disagree with censoring those.
If garbage is presented it will most likely get downvoted and filters itself out.
I see no reason to spent time on actively removing this particular content.
Nor do I think it's good to set a precedent for filtering other content down the road.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Read my comments in this post, you will find links and search terms for your personal research.
Disregard the downvotes, they are dished out by shills and downvote brigades.
Here is an interesting movie for you. And because I like curious people, here is another one worth watching.
Cheers my friend.
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Ignorant and hateful? For not believing the story as presented to me?
This is the only arguments people can put forth when one questions the lies. Holocaust deniers, anti-semite, loony, hateful ... etc. Yet no one has countered the facts I presented. They can't because it's all a bumch of half-truths, half-myths.
Watch the links I posted and use your own judgement. If not blindly believing colonialist propaganda makes me an anti-semite, so be it.
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Oh, and the mass-downvotes (over 100) happened within 45 mins, this is how down-vote brigades work. Regular users leave comments but there were very few comments within that first 45 minutes. For the past day, the votes have been going up normaly as regular users read the posts and clue in.
-13 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
15 drgfromoregon 2013-05-08
Sensible Person, assuming he actually makes the correct decision and bans holocaust denialism.
0 spawnmower 2013-05-08
Banning "holocaust denial ism" aka Holocaust revisionist or what ever they are called is like banning people that deny the official story of 911 or other taboo things, you can't deny their freedom of speech.
1 drgfromoregon 2013-05-08
Yes you can. Quite a few countries already do.
and reddit's a private website, it actually can deny free speech if it wants to.
0 spawnmower 2013-05-08
No shit it's powned by conde naste dumblications
-14 [deleted] 2013-05-08
really? is this a question? you want to censor holocaust denial.... because it is "illegal" in A FEW (not many) places.
Either way, holocaust or not, figuring out information from misinformation is an important aspect of any conspiracy...
Now. why can this account no longer able post to /r/conspiracy?
5 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
You forgot my great homeland ... Canada also makes it illegal to question the official version.
-7 barryq25 2013-05-08
That's not most of the EU.
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
0 barryq25 2013-05-08
Sorry I misread. I thought you were talking about research
-14 [deleted] 2013-05-08
I can't post stories to the subreddit any more. I can comment.
17/196 = 8% of countries. Few... not many.
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
-2 [deleted] 2013-05-08
Oh reallly... so it's been saying this to me for the last 2 weeks when i try to post to /r/conspiracy only... (i can post to other subreddits fine).
"Looks like you're either a brand new user or your posts have not been doing well recently. You may have to wait a bit to post again. In the meantime feel free to check out the reddiquette, join the conversation in a different thread, or verify your email address."
6 CelibatePower3 2013-05-08
Yea dude, that means reddit's flagged you as a spammer. If you register an email address that usually helps out.
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
cool... i didn't realize that... thanks man.
-2 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
3 [deleted] 2013-05-08
cool... i didn't realize that... thanks man.
-2 [deleted] 2013-05-08
[deleted]
2 [deleted] 2013-05-08
So i had submitted 4 stories successfully... and then I went a ranting on night... and got some strange replies from people like "You don't belong in this subreddit".... and then shortly thereafter I couldn't post anymore.
So, being a conspiracy forum.... I figured it was a conspiracy. Why wouldn't the conspiracy forum, in and of itself, be a giant conspiracy?
(Ultimately, I don't give a crap if I can post or not... What I do give a crap about is this armed revolution fear mongering nonsense, while the mainstream media is trying to push that "people are radicalized by the internet".)
-20 [deleted] 2013-05-08
now list the ones it's not illegal in
10 YaviMayan 2013-05-08
(I think you missed the point)
-5 [deleted] 2013-05-08
please explain the point
1 CelibatePower3 2013-05-08
It probably means your posts get automatically spamfiltered by reddit itself, and then the mods go in and approve it. Hardly censorship.
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
cool... i didn't realize that... thanks man.
-14 ChainedNmaimed 2013-05-08
This should not have to be asked....shakes head.....free speech, means free speech, means free fucking speech. there is no exception to the rule.
31 gringobill 2013-05-08
Wat?
One could argue that holocaust denial breaks rule 1.
-3 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Anti-Zionism = racism? Or even worse, (gasp) anti-semitism?
Ok. I am not surprised this is how people are shut-up, such fallacies are very much a way of preventing any discussion whatsoever on doubtful facts we have been
askedordered to take as absolute truth.2 gringobill 2013-05-08
Oops, almost started talking to you reasonably, but I see that you think David Irving is a good source on the holocaust.
" during his student days seconding British Union of Fascists founder Oswald Mosley in a University College London debate on immigration."
" he called Hitler the "greatest unifying force Europe has known since Charlemagne""
And my personal favorite, the little diddy he wrote to sing to his daughter.
"I am a Baby Aryan
Not Jewish or Sectarian
I have no plans to marry an
Ape or Rastafarian."
None of this is to convince you. Just anyone else who comes by.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Come on. I never said Irving was a Saint. I admit he made enough slips to have him permanently discredited, and rest assure his life and family member's lives have pretty much been ruined.
Of course, a writer and public speaker is BOUND to have major slips. For example, Gandhi is renowned for his greatness in modern times, but was being labeled a terrorist in his active days. Gandhi was an outspoken racist and many even say a bisexual pedophile. Yet we all acknowledge he left a great legacy.
In the same vein, one can listen to any public figure, and I feel it is up to the individuals to judge what is worthy of hanging on to. I listen to documentaries, read books, take notes and verify the facts I read.
David Irving, discredited as he is for his hatred of Zionists has very insightful lectures and is one of the most published historians on the specifics of WWII. I am not saying the man is God, I am saying the man has made public lectures for many years and written over 30 books. Of course the mass of information he put forth is bound to contain wrongful statements. This does not mean it is 100% BS.
Pulling these phrases out of context, given to you heartily by the masses of special-interest groups that are bent on destroying him does not mean he had it all wrong. Many historians have revised their findings because of his research, and yes I have read his wikipedia page a few times but remember he has enormous opposition on the matter by very powerful groups, so of course do not expect anything positive to come out of Wkipedia for Irving.
Do yourself a favor, listen to a few of his lectures. Take notes, verify the facts. I do not want to convince you of anything, just look at the facts and judge for yourself instead of relying on wikipedia to base your opinions.
The holocaust happened, and many suffered. This is a fact. Up to this day, there was a LOT of propaganda and embelishment added to the story, this is also a fact. This is the main point I tried to make in this post's comments.
Thanks for hearing me out. Cheers.
-4 ChainedNmaimed 2013-05-08
ya i love that, its anti semitism AND racism, man what the hell are all going to do if the jedi order figures out they are also now a race of jedi.
9 imleejun 2013-05-08
Except when you make Flytape mad. Then personal attacks are not allowed.
5 Wilwheatonfan87 2013-05-08
Well... As much as reddit supports free speech, it is privately owned with their own rules and free speech on the internet only goes so far as what the rules of a privately owned website allows.
If /r/conspiracy decides to make it a rule to not speak about holocaust denial, then there's really nothing that can be done about it. It's not breaking any state or federal laws nor reddit global rules nor violating the U.S. Constitution.
But I say continue to allow it since it is a valid conspiracy despite how offensive it can be to many people.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Obviously, many people here don't take kindly to free speech.
This downvote brigade that kicks in when the subject is mentionned is pathetic.
Cheers my friend.
-14 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Just the fact that some countries (mine included) makes it illegal to revise or question the facts of just one singular historical event makes it a topic of great interest to r/conspiracy, would you not agree?
-6 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
All these downvotes with no counter arguments and your post staying at 0 vote count indicate that a certain group of people really do not want this subject to be discussed on this sub.
If you care for karma, avoid this topic. If you care for the truth, do your research and post your findings here. There is a lot of propaganda on the subject that deserves to be set straight.
-17 h8sgonah8 2013-05-08
Any conspiracy is welcome here. I have not seen many Posts about the holocaust. I would like to see more of them about it.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Notice how your posts mysteriously received 28 downvotes, yet not one counter-argument?
Special interest groups have "downvote brigades". This will never be a popular topic, and posts on "The" holocaust never stay long. Read my comments in this post if you want a few links.
Be quick though, they will probably be taken down in the near future.
Cheers!
-20 PennsyBlastFurnace 2013-05-08
Allow it. This is a place for free speech. We don't ban trolls or JIDF, why ban holocaust conspirators?
Edit:Looks like they're here in full swing.
29 twicevekh 2013-05-08
Are you kidding? It's easier to get banned from /r/conspiracy than it is to get banned from /r/pyongyang.
16 [deleted] 2013-05-08
/u/days_not_weeks (check his history) was banned personally from 9000sins for calling out his censorship techniques
techniques that include banning users from this sub even though they have never posted in this sub nor have they violated its rules.
0 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
If you had doubts on shills and downvote brigades, I guess this sort of nails the case shut.
It did for me!
-29 Flytape 2013-05-08
Its not illegal in the United States of America.
Let freedom ring!
1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Don't shout the word freedom or advocate free-speech. You will be down-voted to oblivion.
Unless ... you are like me and can pull a laugh out of it!
I gave you an upper but the shills are strong on this topic. 53 downvotes for your comment and counting, yet not one single counter-argument or reasonable explanation whatsoever. Truly enlightening, don't you think?
I was warned twice that speaking my mind on this topic, in this sub would not be torlerated. We can post hundreds and hundreds of articles on Boston Bombing though, those are well received.
Cheers friend, peace to you and loved ones.
-1 Flytape 2013-05-08
The JIDF is fine with freedom as long as it doesn't include the infamous antisemitic's freedom.
6 CelibatePower3 2013-05-08
Yea dude, that means reddit's flagged you as a spammer. If you register an email address that usually helps out.
1 [deleted] 2013-05-08
cool... i didn't realize that... thanks man.
1 WhitechapelPrime 2013-05-08
I think you're being a bit paranoid. This has been linked to in other subs. Meaning that, people that normally wouldn't see your ideas, now do. Therefore down voting you for being what they see as crazy.
1 herpaderpderp9 2013-05-08
Hitler did nothing wrong.
-1 stefgosselin 2013-05-08
Oh boy. "Rockets". How many Israeli casualties are we talking about?
26 casualties since the past 10 years. Most of those deaths occurred during Israeli invasions of Palestinian territories, condemend by a shit-load of (ignored) bull-shit UN resolutions let us not forget.
Have you seen the Isreali map lately?!?!? What would you recommend the Palestinians do? Send flowers and hope for peace? Or maybe just wait until they are wiped out? Oh. Maybe they should turn to International court, or the UN to rid them of their oppressors? It seems International court was only useful for Nuremburg. The international laws meant to prevent genocide do not really apply for Palestinians, it seems. In fact, come to think of it ... International law is only applied when it serves western interests.
If your country was invaded and occupied in such a manner, would you be sending flowers and praying for peace, as your land and humand rights are stripped off slowly year after year?
Palestine, one of the poorest country in the world is a threat to Isreal, that boasts one of the most powerful armies in the world?
I've been trolled enough for today. Good-night sir.