Kind of obvious. The 2nd amendment is not about self defense. It's about keeping an armed revolution feasible if need be. The proposed assault rifle bans attack that directly.

Thank you. And most of the sheep see an "assault" weapons ban as a good thing. Which there isn't any true classification of "assault weapons", its simply a term used to scare the public into supporting the movement to take away their own rights.

the sheep won't defend you or get in your way once the bullets start flying friend. drive on.

Are you fucking kidding me? The 2nd amendment absolutely is about self defense, that's why it's stated as "the right to keep and bear arms" with no restrictions as to when or where you can keep and bear those arms which means it IS intended to provide every citizen with equal opportunity for self defense.

Who in the fuck was going to attack the congressional congress? They all brought their guns with them.

The 2nd amendment absolutely is about self defense, as well as keeping our rulers in check.

>congressional congress

>mfw

Not saying I'm on that guy's side but:

attacking arguer instead of argument

Lol, I just thought it was funny.

In that case, yes it was pretty funny, lol.

It's a perfect thing for a Bush impersonator to say.

So where's the armed insurrection? The second amendment is all about corporate profit through the selling of arms to a scared/righteous/indulgent/lonely population, and of course there is a distribution bias to monied white folks. Guns aren't cheap.

No insurrection/revolution until your bellies have been empty for a while.

"they say revolution is only 3 missed meals away."

Is that why the US is kept fat?

Fat, sedentary, stupid, and blind to what's actually going on.

One of the more ignorant things I've read on reddit. And that's saying a lot.

So where's the armed insurrection?

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Parking your car on an interstate and walking away has more strategic value than owning traditional weapons. All that time spent at the gun range is worth less than having spent that time learning horticulture or even getting to know the neighbors really well.

I take my neighbors to the range.

There's nothing like white privilege bonding over the smell of gunpowder in the morning. So can I put you down as a volunteer for the armed insurrection? Oh, thought not. You probably just keep a gun so no damn ni...e're-do-well gets at your stuff.

Yes, put me down. And my non-white friends and neighbors.

[deleted]

getting to know your neighbours well might make you want to stockpile even more weapons

Time is a zero sum game and for many so is money—there is always an opportunity cost. Personal gun ownership which is what most 2nd amendment fetishists want is no help regarding tyranny.

[deleted]

I don't live in the US. Converting a roof to catch water is more important than making sure there is a gun in the house.

[deleted]

If I actually need one I would say it is already too late.

Is that supposed to be arguing against him? And if you don't live in the U.S. I hope you realize how baseless yoyr arguments are right? (For this specific argument)

Is that supposed to be arguing against him?

Was he trying to argue with me with "right up until you need one"? I can only imagine needing one if one was drawn on me, so unless I keep a gun drawn at all times I lose my "competitive" advantage. It's also useless against tyranny.

I wish gun owners would admit to it all being about a personal private indulgence than any collective good.

And if you don't live in the U.S. I hope you realize how baseless yoyr arguments are right?

Obama is a crook, but I've never met the man and only ever once been to the state of Florida so my arguments are I suppose baseless. I have never visited a concentration camp either so any negative arguments I may have against them are also baseless, right?

To call you an idiot would be harsh and, in the name of fairness, inaccurate. But I kbow the qord to describe you - you are a fool.

What is a qord?

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I'm assuming the UK as you've a nearly pathological distaste for guns

If anything it is the 2nd amendment fetishists. Where were they during Vietnam? Black rights movement? Female rights? Worker rights? Universal healthcare? They often lead selfish lives with selfish politics, the noble idea of preventing tyranny is a sham.

the exception being my mates in London wishing they had a few of my guns during the riots last year

Of course, the ones who can afford guns shooting ones that cannot. Relative poverty united me with the have-nots so they wanted nothing from me. This proves my point: guns are a last resort with all else having failed. Guns don't prevent inequality or social cohesion and every purchase along with ammo is empowering to gun makers who have lobbied so long they are part of the government and global conspiracy.

the truth is you're already being protected with guns by your government.

I'm more protected by the social relations I make and resource independency.

Reason or force. I prefer reason, but am prepared to protect myself and those I care about with force if necessary.

May I suggest you use reason to understand that "the gun" and "force" are not synonyms. I'm very much certain I could do more damage to the state without a gun than you can with a cabinet full. Ammo runs out and imagination is unbounded and that along with social cohesion are the two greatest threats to the state, which too many in the US have forgotten. BTW, you haven't really been philosophical but anecdotal (the weakest form of argument) and rhetorical:

You'd rather outsource that it seems.

My position is that all the handguns in the world will not take down a tyrannical government because it necessitates that any winner be the one that used the most violence. One is replaced for another and it is very often the arms dealers that are the silent victors. To kill a government is to kill its currency not its army, and the state loves nothing more than to divide and conquer with home invasions or gun lust.

[deleted]

Gun lovers also let superiority complexes hinder debate.

what if your neighbors are into guns?

Make sure yours is bigger and that there is enough food to go around.

[deleted]

Unfortunately for the rest of us that are awake, there are still to many full retards that believe everything will be fine or are completely unaware of what is going on. In my opinion leave the country that is what I will be doing after obtaining an esteemed US degree and fleeing to our new world super power China.

My thoughts exactly, there are too many people who insist on keeping their eyes closed after being presented the evidence that the government does not have their best interests in mind. As far as leaving the country goes, I have the same itinerary planned for myself.

Forget about guns? the 2nd amendment gives us the opportunity (if we take it) to take back our rights and help make sure the government is working for the people (which its not).

They're doing the same to the 1st amendment, the 4th Amendment, the 5th amendment...

No one can hand you freedom in a box. No one walks up to you and has you sign a freedom contract. The constitution and bill of rights do not give you freedom or rights. YOU make sure you are free. YOU make sure you have rights.

Sometimes that requires getting your hands dirty and bloody.

Slaves obey.

A free person chooses.

You are BORN free. You are born with the right to self defense. All people have the basic universal right to self defense.

When the government bans firearms they fully intend to keep them for the police and their paid security.

That is called a monopoly on force.

But we have close to 100 Million people armed with 300 million+ guns in the United States.

It would be utter suicide to go up against such a huge force.

I am the only one who thinks the government is slowly chipping away at the second amendment to slowly but surely strip physical power away from the people?

FTFY: Blazingly Hacking away

Yes they are..

it's like they WANT us to riot in the streets.

the inner party, the party and the proles. coming soon.

It's not a coincidence that huge ammo shortages are happening during this time in our country.

Guns are to ammo what energy is to water. Future control will focus more on ammo and water because those are things that they will be able to control more in the 21st century.

You are not the only one who thinks this.

Am I the only one who thinks questions like this are a great way for government shills to identify possible revolutionaries?

I study nonviolence. Research shows that no one needs a gun to overthrow the government. In fact, using weapons may just prolong conflict and increase the body count. In addition, it is not necessary to have a "back-up" militia (which people will usually chime in to say) - civil society movements are the most effective means of combatting corrupt, genocidal dictatorships and militias usually hold everyone back from progress.

yeaaaaaaah sure thats if the government actually listens...which it doesn't.

protesting never works, not once.

Currently in the US, I agree with you. Elsewhere, it's been working for decades.

Yeah, you're probably right. But just for fun, here's a database full of successful nonviolent revolutions and campaigns since 12th century B.C.: http://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/

i've yet to see a full government takeover on this website. Hunger strikes from prisoners and workers is entirely different then revolutionizing the government

Bulldozer revolution of Serbia, People's Revolution in Phillipines, Tunisia, Egypt Arab Spring? None of those are worthy?

see, now you pointed out examples. You can't just expect me to do your research. I did my research on my argument. I believe the only one i know well enough is the arab spring. That didn't really become fully successful til the army sided with the protestors

It's important that the military "sides" with the protestors, but not that they use their weapons against the government on behalf of the revolution. They just need to agree not to use their weapons against the nonviolent rebellion.

The second amendment is already irrelevant - it has been for years.

it was meant to allow a revolution if need be, when the people had the same armaments as the Military.

The reason it's irrelevant, is if you try to spark an armed revolution, the government can easily respond with tanks and drones, things the founders couldn't even conceive would be used in time of war.

What's your rifle going to do against something flying a mile above you that can destroy a city block with the push of a button?

[deleted]

Not if they blame the closest group of people who look different.

Even so, there wasn't that much of a blowback after Waco, was there?

They can terrorize the people with drones but that only will be useful for putting down a highly organized force. They will need to have boots on the street to kick down the doors to really maintain control. In that case a 3d printed gun that is only good enough for shooting 1000 rounds is more than adequate for killing cops and soldiers. They cannot just so easily fight a war against the people where every door that they approach leaves them open to sniper fire from ten other locations. Then once they start taking a few hits they are forced to treat the entire street like a hostile warzone and that means alienating entire communities every time that something needs to be done.

You guys can do something by: 1) tweeting with .#Restorethe4th 2) face booking .#Restorethe4th 3) inform people of what is going on. Facts. Facts. Facts. 4) join /r/Restorethefourth 5) Participate in the July 4th DC protest.

3D printing ensures that there will be an unlimited number of good-enough guns around. Ammunition is where it is at.

No. Duh.

I know this isn't going to be popular amongst many in this thread but I think in today's world, the second amendment is a false security blanket to most of my fellow citizens. There are no amount of weapons that an individual or group of Individuals can collect that can equal the power of our government and it's military. If the government wants something or someone, we have given them the ability to take it. All your guns in the world will not protect you from it and our obsession with collecting them speaks more to our ignorance of the scope of the situation and less about protecting liberties etc. it's my 2 cents and I'm in the mood to share. Y'all have a great day!

True stuff right here

OP you have been on reddit for 1 year and 8 months and you have to ask if you are the only one on /r/conspiracy? Also it's just not the 2nd that's getting chipped away at.

I have just newly joined r/conspiracy sir and i haven't seen it being discussed. i saw so many speaking of the constitution being treated like toilet paper but nobody seemed to mention the 2nd amendment. I consider it to be very very VERY important.

Oh my bad then. Welcome to the land deemed home of us lunatics on the fringe. ;)

Here you go. I shaped your tinfoil hat like a cone. Mine looks like a duck. There is a good seat over there, next to the rabbit hole.

Power does not come from a gun, fear comes from a gun. That is what the government does to us, not what we need to do to them. Two wrongs don't make either right.

You're very wrong about that. two wrongs don't make a right? get out of here with that childish playground logic. Is it bad to fight back against a government that murders, steals, lies, and strips rights away from citizens? Oh sorry lets try telling them were upset instead, because thats working so well right now or in the last 10 years for that matter.

Any victory attained by violence is tantamount to defeat for it is momentary and costly.

I am against gun control, but you do not get power from a gun, you get fear. If you don't know this then you are the one with playground logic as any halfway intelligent human knows this fact.

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Blood never needs to be spilled, only small minded fools think so. Violence is at home in small minds alone.

Flaw in that logic. When the small minded are in power the only thing they will understand is violence.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about your opinions.

wow, is this a bait thread or what?

I'm pretty sure they'd prefer we have them. It'd be really hard to convince American soldiers to march on fellow Americans who weren't reasonably suspected to have guns.

Do you really think we'd stand a chance against the US Army? There may be tens of millions of guns in the US, but there's no where to hide. A few attack drones could subdue the American public quick enough. With or without guns.

Primitive, uneducated savages have held off the might of the United States military from caves in Afganistan for more than 10 years and defeated the Soviets. You would be surprised what an armed, motivated group of people can accomplish.

He would be really surprised how you could turn a city street into a "kill zone" by funneling convoys down into a few IEDs. Surprise. Guerrilla warfare.

I would hope our military would never follow orders to attack its own people, but it has happened in so many other countries so many times that I don't get people that ignore this possibility.

It's very possible. Supposably two guys in Boston warranted an assault through the town. To say it was not a full on Fallujah style house by house assault is bullshit. Imagine if they did that in the south side of Chicago. ChiRAQ.

I think as long as the American people don't fire first, the soldiers won't initiate.

Problem is, if we're all rioting in the streets, I don't think US soldiers would hesitate to put an end to the violence. Peaceful protest is the best case scenario.

Kent State

I think that it is more likely that they would use the giant microwave gun that causes you to feel like you are burning alive when it resonates on your nerves. I'd imagine that two of those devices would be able to keep an 8 lane major road completely free and clear if they also used a little tear gas and just even a few snipers with rubber bullets. They will be using this high tech shit on the people because it is not very lethal and it causes severe unbearable pain so they will get their kicks off with the control while knowing that the lasting effects are minimal.

I personally think a million people marching on Washington, non-peacefully could dismantle Washington and stop this all from happening.

At that point the gloves are off though. How many airstrikes do you think it would take to quell that?

if you haven't noticed there's also mercenary group hired by the gov. how will you defend yourself by protesting to mercenary?

With cash.

Yes you are the only person that thinks that.

of course not. you're posting to r/conspiracy. Most people who come here have a predisposition to what they believe is true, and no open mind to what is reality. So it is very likely that what ever you believe is true, whether it is real or not, is definitely replicated in the minds of many other redditors on r/conspiracy.

to try and put this simpler. You're repeating what is posted on r/conspiracy every. fucking. hour.

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And that's an illogical argument. A predisposition is not the same as a suspicion.

You can suspect something, with an open mind - E.G A Scientist. Or you can make a case with a predisposition to your view, and a closed mind - E.G a Zealot

r/conspiracy has more zealots than r/christianity or r/atheism. If you read the blurb on what r/conspiracy is about - it's that everyone has a point of view. But the fact that there are only three different subjects on the front page right now, and anyone who disagrees with them gets downvoted, sort of shows that r/conspiracy is not an openminded subreddit, but rather a breeding ground for bigotry and zealotry (still not entirely sure if that's the right word) - rather than wanting to learn with an open mind.

[deleted]

Actually, if I had said "Everyone on r/conspiracy is a bigot or zealot" that would be the same as saying all catholics molest children. I am not sure why you would call me an idiot and then follow it up with a statement like that. That's just silly.

Saying r/conspiracy as a subreddit is a breeding ground for bigotry and zealotry is, to a degree, a generalisation, but the critical difference ist hat I stated a proven basis for my argument. It was a "rough" fact, but I am quite confident that if i were to do more study I would be able to validate it very comfortably.

I dismiss (and yes, you can call this a predisposition) blanket and uneducated statements that are repetitive, uninformative, and do not offer an open-minded, objective, view. This is not having a "predisposition to rejecting ideas that upset the consensus" - unless you are agreeing that the consensus is that r/conspiracy is a breeding pool for bigotry and zealotry.

Edit: Also - and don't get me wrong - truly I am enjoying this debate - I would like to point out that my original statement was not an "Argument". I was merely pointing out that what they are saying is very common because people hold to what they believe and a lot of people on r/conspiracy believe what that person was saying. I am actually not entirely sure why you bothered to respond in the first place?

[deleted]

I am not entirely sure where you get your point of view from - mine was based on visible evidence, having watched r/conspiracy move further and further away from it's core message over the last year.

It's a shame that your response has just been "you're an idiot and you're wrong and go away and don't come back" without any reference to fact or experience. It sort of reaffirms my original statement.

Yes, you are the only person in America who thinks that Obama is gonna take yer guns.

When do you sleep? I mean, you've made a comment almost every hour in the past 24. The longest you went without commenting is 2 hours. Hardly enough time to get some restful sleep.

they take shifts

Never it's a fucking shill account.

Oh, I know it's a shill account. I'm just trying to get him to answer it himself. He's quite a dickbag and they need to be called out every now and then.

Went to bed pretty much right after I made that comment actually, and just got up about 15 minutes ago.

Parking your car on an interstate and walking away has more strategic value than owning traditional weapons. All that time spent at the gun range is worth less than having spent that time learning horticulture or even getting to know the neighbors really well.