The biggest fraud in human history. In combination with Bretton Woods and the elemination of the Gold Standard, a real masterpiece. Now, where the drama is coming to an end, let it take the last deep breath, let the audience hope for a good ending, float the markets with a load of that valueless crap of paper for the last time, an then, burn it down to the ground.

I don't fully understand your sentence, but are you trying to imply that the gold standard is good for the economy? If so: lol

The reserve bank system with fiat money and interest is the major reason for the coming economic collapse. Important steps in the last 100 years were among others the ones mentioned above. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocz32wymwDg [3:01]

Do you really think there were no economic collapses, or bank runs during the gold standard?

Read this to understand the problems with the gold standard.

Or this

Never said such thing. Money out of thin air in combination with interest to pay it back is the problem. No gold standard can prevent this BUT you can flood markets with money much easier without such "mechnism"

And how do you not create money out of thin air?

In theory...barter. But when you don't want to exchange your goods immediately you need something to "store" the value of your work. So you use some kind of money. And to keep your worthy work you would choose some money you can't multiply easily e.g. gold. But as gold is quile heavy to carry when you need more of it, one decided to use trusted paper money. But with the "invention" of central banks there was total control over the paper money. To prevent people from changing their paper back to the gold one got rid of the gold standard... et voilá: Le endless money, which you can lend to people and claim it back with interests. That's what I meant when I said, the biggest fraud in human history. Dream on.

But people are already bartering. Money is bartering, but made easier. Everyone agrees that money has value, therefore it has value, and you can use it to trade or buy stuff. Money is just a medium of exchange. If people bartered without money, how would they agree how much apple pie is worth, and how much a computer is worth? What if the minority disagrees, and don't accept that the computer worth is that much?

And to keep your worthy work you would choose some money you can't multiply easily e.g. gold.

That's just silly. There's not enough gold in the world. Also, physical gold is very susceptible to scams, i.e. melting gold and adding other cheaper metals into it. That's also the reason why no one really trades physical gold, but only paper gold.

But with the "invention" of central banks there was total control over the paper money.

I don't understand your opposition to central banks. Do you really think it's better if there were no central banks? What would you do, when that currency is worthless, and there's no one to control its value? I don't think you really understand what you yourself want, and can't articulate it well.

Le endless money, which you can lend to people and claim it back with interests.

After which, the biggest increase of wealth in human history happened, and the biggest increase of human inventions never seen before.

Also, what's so bad about it? I give you money, and we both agree that you will give it back to me with interest. I don't see why in the hell would you be against it.

I don't want you to come out of your comfort zone. If you think everything is okay about it, carry on. Really. But if you begin to notice that the whole system is just a lie that is so big, that the vast majority of people would never have the courage to question it, then inform yourself. The internet STILL offers the information. Maybe I should mention, that I see this whole theater from a European perspecitve as I live there. Thing don't go well at these times. But all western countries are sitting in the same boat. Just a matter of time for it to drown.

I don't want you to come out of your comfort zone.

What comfort zone? What the hell are you even talking about.

If you think everything is okay about it, carry on.

Nowhere did I imply that everything was okay.

But if you begin to notice that the whole system is just a lie that is so big

Oh, you're so smart! You, the one who uncovered this big conspiracy, wants to awaken the people and see how they're getting fucked over!

Hint: watching youtube videos does not make you an expert on politics and economics.

The internet STILL offers the information.

Because 'the internet' never lies, am I right?

Maybe I should mention, that I see this whole theater from a European perspecitve as I live there.

I'm European myself, and I live and work in the EU.

[deleted]

Such an intelligent and rational retort!

You mock the points without injecting any alternatives. Maybe you need some more humility mate.

I'm having a hard time understanding your views other than your defending of interest and being against gold backed money. I agree with a currency not based on gold. You can have interest, however don't put it on the money supply. If a governmentally controlled central bank issued its own currency (in the same form as the United States Note) as a fiat currency, it should have a clear value set to it, without borrowing it from a privately owned central bank, that arbitrarily fluctuates the money supply as they seem fit.

Don't make economy rocket science, because it isn't. Just make your points more clear.

Could to quote where I mocked condescendingfox's points?

gold backed money.

I'm against gold backed money, because having it means that the economy turns to shit. Gold standard means that the exchange rate for the fiat currency is fixed to the value of gold. Having fixed exchange rates is a very bad thing for the economy, because the currency doesn't fluctuate to fix itself to the economic situations. That's one of the reasons why the Eurozone is in trouble. Another reason is that the EU doesn't issue Eurozone debt as one debt.

Also, there's no even enough gold to back all the money in the world.

without borrowing it from a privately owned central bank, that arbitrarily fluctuates the money supply as they seem fit.

Here we go again with "federal reserve is a private central bank!". No, it is not.

""federal reserve is a private central bank!". No, it is not."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

It's not private, it's a very well known fact. Just because you read it on some conspiracy website does not make it true.

Are you honestly suggest the federal reserve is a government department and part of the public sector?

Honestly, You can purchase STOCK in the Federal reserve, i dont know how many public sector departments are on the market, common sense should tell you 0. over 51% of its shareholders are other private banks, have no oversight and can withhold as much information about their actions from the government aswell as the public.

If youre going to sit here and shill about this nonsense of the federal reserve being part of the public sector, i have nothing more to say to you. Suggesting i needed to read this from a blog is a weak attempt on your part. Its a skill called critical thinking, it doesnt take a genius to know if you can purchase stock of something its in the private sector

Are you honestly suggest the federal reserve is a government department and part of the public sector?

It's established, and accountable to the Congress.

You can purchase STOCK in the Federal reserve

No, you cannot. Honestly, just start with the wikipedia page about the Federal Reserve system.

over 51% of its shareholders are other private banks

So?

have no oversight and can withhold as much information about their actions from the government aswell as the public.

It's audited every year by independent groups... Also, it's accountable to the Congress.

If youre going to sit here and shill about this nonsense of the federal reserve being part of the public sector

It's part public part private. Also, reported for breaking rule 10.

It's established, and accountable to the Congress.

id like to see one instance in which the federal reserve was held accountable for anything. Lets start with the 9 trillion dollars they were unable to account for.

Heres a quote for you:

Senator Sanders: "Will you tell the American people to whom you lent $2.2 trillion of their dollars?"

Bernanke: "No"

No, you cannot. Honestly, just start with the wikipedia page about the Federal Reserve system.

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239

"The Court of Appeals .... held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations."

Or you can go to the federal reserve website where they clearly outline they are owned by anyone who purchases stock and even went a step to say "The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System."

OR, you can read the Feds own words,

*the New York Fed and other regional banks maintain they are separate institutions, owned by their member banks, and not subject to federal restrictions.

over 51% of its shareholders are other private banks

so what if more than 51% of a supposedly federal department is owned by private investors? this is self explanatory and an insult to your intelligence if i have to explain any further

It's audited every year by independent groups... Also, it's accountable to the Congress.

Cool story. what about the misplaced 9 trillion dollars? Did their independent auditors miss 9 trillion dollars? or did they lie to congress (who did nothing)?

Why independent and not public? the federal reserve has only een audited once by congress only after years of pushing, and even then the audit was weak and didnt reveal much of everything.

It's part public part private.

woah! thats a change, now youre saying its PART private and PART public? radical change from your original stand point

Great, glad youre finally coming back to reality. Now remember what i said about it being over 51% private? that means the remaining 40-some percent HAVE NOT AUTHORITY, if the other half+. Thats the way boards work, the more shares of the company you have the more say you have.

Also, reported for breaking rule 10.

yawn, report away. do it twice just in case it didnt go through the first time.

Lets start with the 9 trillion dollars they were unable to account for.

Unaccounted transactions doesn't mean that the transactions are missing. The same thing happened pre-9/11. There was 2 trillion missing, but those transactions were tracked down.

The Court of Appeals .... held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.

Learn what private means in business. Also, why didn't you quote further?:

"The Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes."

Or this:

"Another relevant decision is Scott v. Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, in which the distinction is made between Federal Reserve Banks, which are federally created instrumentalities, and the Board of Governors, which is a federal agency."

You're intellectually dishonest.

EDIT: You also omitted something from your quote:

"The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA"

More proof that you are willing to omit facts and distort them to suit your 'arguments'.

Or you can go to the federal reserve website where they clearly outline they are owned by anyone who purchases stock and even went a step to say "The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System."

Yeah, right:

The Federal Reserve System fulfills its public mission as an independent entity within government. It is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution.

Cool story. what about the misplaced 9 trillion dollars? Did their independent auditors miss 9 trillion dollars? or did they lie to congress

Don't pretend to know anything about central banking. You don't know anything about it, nor do I. Watching conspiracy documentaries on youtube doesn't make you a goddamn expert on economics or politics.

woah! thats a change, now youre saying its PART private and PART public?

Where did I say that it was not part private, part public? I only wrote that it is not private. Deal with it. Get over it. Educate yourself for once.

Great, glad youre finally coming back to reality.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Oh god. You're making me laugh. Please, stop.

yawn, report away. do it twice just in case it didnt go through the first time.

Not only are you a condescending asshole, but also are intellectually dishonest. You presented no evidence whatsoever to prove that the federal reserve is a private institution for profit making. I actually presented evidence against it. Deal with it.

If I could interject for just a moment. The reason central banks are shithouse is because the way they're structured is basically a big pyramid scheme.

Central banks 'finance' or 'lend' to the government (eg via bonds) and high tier banks. High tier banks lend that (multiplying it through fractional reserve lending) to lower tier banks who then lend to people. Governments pay back the interest from our taxes. Obviously we pay back our loans to banks plus interest. If the entire money supply (P) essentially represents only debt to be paid back up the pyramid to the central bank then where does the money come from for interest (I). 'P' is lent out by the central and other banks, and 'P+I' must eventually be paid back. Ultimately, 'I' comes from more money lent out from banks. In a simplistic sense a vicious cycle where all money gets funneled back to the central bank.

This system is only sustainable if you have economic growth to match the interest rate and growth in money supply. This is why western economies are obsessed with maintaining growth (a demonstrably unsustainable exponential function in a world of finite resources).

The monopoly on money supply has allowed it to be rigged. I would propose that any person should be able to make a currency that should be backed by tangible economic or social value at a 1:1 ratio. Any country should have multiple tradeable currencies (all valid to pay your taxes), that compete with each other for value. Sounds complicated and difficult, but I think in practice it wouldn't be. It would keep any monetary system honest and prevent rigging due to creating an open competitive money market.

Maybe I'm just too libertarian...

I see you guys got fucked just in time for Christmas :)

relevant

Someone should make a list of all the great things that the Federal Reserve has helped America accomplish, wars, debt, taxes. ect. I'm sure we could put together a nice picture book!

Lets start with the 9 trillion dollars they were unable to account for.

Unaccounted transactions doesn't mean that the transactions are missing. The same thing happened pre-9/11. There was 2 trillion missing, but those transactions were tracked down.

The Court of Appeals .... held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.

Learn what private means in business. Also, why didn't you quote further?:

"The Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes."

Or this:

"Another relevant decision is Scott v. Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, in which the distinction is made between Federal Reserve Banks, which are federally created instrumentalities, and the Board of Governors, which is a federal agency."

You're intellectually dishonest.

EDIT: You also omitted something from your quote:

"The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA"

More proof that you are willing to omit facts and distort them to suit your 'arguments'.

Or you can go to the federal reserve website where they clearly outline they are owned by anyone who purchases stock and even went a step to say "The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System."

Yeah, right:

The Federal Reserve System fulfills its public mission as an independent entity within government. It is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution.

Cool story. what about the misplaced 9 trillion dollars? Did their independent auditors miss 9 trillion dollars? or did they lie to congress

Don't pretend to know anything about central banking. You don't know anything about it, nor do I. Watching conspiracy documentaries on youtube doesn't make you a goddamn expert on economics or politics.

woah! thats a change, now youre saying its PART private and PART public?

Where did I say that it was not part private, part public? I only wrote that it is not private. Deal with it. Get over it. Educate yourself for once.

Great, glad youre finally coming back to reality.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Oh god. You're making me laugh. Please, stop.

yawn, report away. do it twice just in case it didnt go through the first time.

Not only are you a condescending asshole, but also are intellectually dishonest. You presented no evidence whatsoever to prove that the federal reserve is a private institution for profit making. I actually presented evidence against it. Deal with it.