Thank you for your perspective, this paints a vastly different picture than what the average joe american is being told. My heart goes out to you and all the others caught in this shit storm. All I can say is make noise. Contact alternative news sources, take to social media just make noise and let the world know!

if you replace 'unarmed protesters' with 'Muslim Brotherhood supporters' you won't have that trouble.

Muslim Brotherhood is basically a crime syndicate benefiting from the chaos. The way I have seen videos depicting a member of the Muslim Brotherhood being shot in the street and then reading this, it appears the western media is trying to pull on our heart strings to think the military is bad.

bingo.

Thank You. I needed this.

But the US government didn't call it a coup. They did everything but call it a coup.

Yeah I feel like OP described the MSM message while implying that wasn't their message...

Exactly. I've listened to mostly NPR on this and I've heard them on many occasions explicitly state that it's not quite a coup.

That's because they don't even know what a coup is.

Actually the American government has deliberately stayed clear of labelling/treating what went down in Egypt as a coup in order to keep the flow of military and economic aid going. The Muslim Brotherhood probably isn't favored by them any more than Mubarak was, they just happened to be on top for awhile. Regardless, I can just about guarantee that whoever comes out of this current mess with political control will be just as willing to get cozy with the Americans as his predecessors.

Thanks for doing your part and getting info out there!

French/european, The way i got western medias :

The American government want the best interest of Israel and doesn't care about Egypt or Egyptian people at all. That is why their upset that the people removed the Muslim brotherhood and call it a military coup to make it sound negative or wrong.

The first sentence is half true. The US are primarily concerned about Israel (edit : and keeping the suez channel open too). Doesn't mean they need to screw you over anyway (the only thing they really don't want is a war between israel and Egypt or channel closed, everything else is bargainable). They'll just try to bargain and deal with whoever is in power. They have also been very careful not to call it a coup when morsi was pushed off; and most people abroad aren't sure what to believe, so we just watch from afar.

On the other hand a lot of people where saddened to see the military answer so heavy handedly by fireing back on the brotherhood (yes i know the brotherhood armed civilians with AK and told them to fire first, but higher power means higher responsabilities blablabla cops and military being held to a higher standard etc, the should have arrested them not fire back without looking and causing that much dead :/).

Oh and btw Western media are showing both side on a grey-and-grey light. Military being heavy handed but not evil; brotherhood being power hungry and ready to sacrifice people for their rush for power but democratically elected and at least partially supported by a large swath of the country :/

Sadly an American puppet also. Repeats what America says. Almost like a parrot.

French here, i believe the european pov i got is mostly the one i just quoted. We're mainly pissed the military fired with live ammo because it makes us look bad by showing support to the military then having then turning hardass, nothing else.

No if you care about the truth. If you ask any Egyptian in the street, muslim or christian who is not of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Here's the kicker, the last part of your sentance : there's a lot of egyptians supporting the brotherhood out of town. Last i heard it was like 30% of the country. It wouldn't be very clever on our side to just spit on a very large number of egyptians either. That and the crack down with live ammo is the main reason why the west is so unconclusive over that story.

40% of Egypt is illiterate/ uneducated. About 50% is poor or under the poverty line. Having democracy in a country like this wont work.

If nothing else, our own past taught us to be careful about people deciding our own life for our own good beyond our close friends and family :( Because people abused it time and time again in our own history. Even if the current military leaders aren't bad guys, who'se to say what happen when they get to old to really lead and you end up with another corrupt state like mubarak's in the end ?

So why should we take a direct side here instead of watching the sense wind will blow before doing anything too rash ? We did act in Syria and end up with a civil war destroying half the country when they weren't muslim extremists at start. Lots of deads and a destroyed country is bad business for everyone.

Edit : BTW I think you're angry at occident for what's going on in your country and see us as responsable. Maybe, because we backed the first military coup then the elections. But then we're not your ennemy, and won't try to be. Sometime we're not sure what to believe either. Just because we do not hand you immediate ressources when asked does not mean we're just (muhahah) ploting the "fall of egypt" or something. No matter what we do or don't do somebody will blame us. :/

Edit 2 : Said post summarize quite nicely part of the issue : www.reddit.com/r/Egypt/comments/1kk1dy/here_are_the_top_10_american_corporations/cbpz8eo . For the lazy, that quote summarize it even further (think of it as a tl;dr) :

THAT'S why the US is giving Egypt aid. That's why they are getting Block 52 F-16's and Apaches. You are getting it for free because it's worth the billions (according to current policy) to keep the balance of power in play, even if Egypt can't afford the hardware to make it happen. People think it's about having a handle of power in the Egyptian government, or making a few million for Lockheed, but in the end it's just not that simple. In the end the US doesn't care who is in power in Egypt. That's for the Egyptian people to decide. So long as Egypt remains a nation state and that canal stays open, the region stays secure, and global war does not ensue.

The American Government IS ISRAEL!

Also drugs and alcohol public intoxication are bad :P

420 blaze it faggot

Why would Israel be happier with an Islamist government in Egypt and in Syria? It makes no sense to me.

I guess they'd be happy with a stable gov they can deal with.

Because as OP said they're only puppets who cover their real agenda's under the cloak of islam.

The American government paid billions of dollars to the Muslim brotherhood to have them under their control (an american puppet like Mubarak before) The American government want the best interest of Israel and doesn't care about Egypt or Egyptian people at all.

I don't understand this either...hopefully we'll get some clarification on this...

Could I add that Israel is pro-coup, Saudi-Israeli realtions have never been this strong

the Israeli government was quietly pleased with the overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi and the crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood, which has always been hostile to Israel

Israel Keeps a Wary Eye on Turmoil in Egypt - nytimes.com

The Arab Springs were hijacked by Saudi-American agenda to continue the expansion of the War on Terror and overthrow Iran through political isolation (Libya and Sirya).

Apparently Saudi Arabia and Israel became warry when Mubarak was replaced by the Muslim Brotherhood. Even while Saudi may have enjoyed greater reach through the expansion of the salafists governments in Libya and Tunisia, ultimately the Arab Springs were becoming too unstable.

Qatar's Emir just resigned, a sign that his support of the Muslim Brotherhood obviously back-fired.

Great to see a Egyptian perspective here, God bless you.

Muslim Brotherhood: A crime syndicate.

If you were running the world's larges crime syndicate it would make more sense to support MB. good point.

Why does Turkish PM Erdogan support Morsi and the Ikhwan al-Muslimin (Muslim Brotherhood) so strongly? What is your opinion about that?

sounds like the muslim brotherhood are the zionists of egypt.

I don't see how that analogy is useful or meaningful.

Yes. Pretty awesome how America coerces other nations into economic entanglements, then simply has its banks turn on the printing press. Each dollar printed steals minutes of someone's life.

Awesome read. Thanks. About what I thought was going on.

I really hope you are a troll, I don't want to believe any Egyptian with access to the internet can be so ignorant. I lost it when you said this:

Egyptian Military:

is not interested in power at all.

The truth is Mubarak was a general! He was the military. That's how he took power. The military was in power for the last couple decades with Mubarak as their figurehead. The military is the most powerful economic force in Egypt (owning lots of factories and services.)

Nobody is more deeply invested in controlling Egypt's future than the military. They are greatly interested in power, particularly to maintain the status quo.

The American government paid billions of dollars to the Muslim brotherhood to have them under their control (an american puppet like Mubarak before) The American government want the best interest of Israel and doesn't care about Egypt or Egyptian people at all.

The American government doesn't care about the Egyptian people? The entire reason they supported the Muslim Brotherhood is because the Western World wanted Egyptians to have democracy. It was a stupid and short sighted plan to think the Egyptian people were ready for it, and it was even stupider to trust the Muslim Brotherhood's promises, but it's not our fault 75% of you Egyptians voted for Islamist political parties in the first free elections you had! You're like those people that shoot themselves in the foot and claim they were mugged to prevent further embarrassment.

many of us on this sub-reddit already know the machinations of the propaganda wing known as the main stream media. To be Honest the only time i watch cnn or msnbc is when i see them get thoroughly whipped by likes of ron paul, russel brand etc etc. Still I appreciate the angle that you bring. Hopefully it convinces some of the other people who are sitting on the fence peaking at this sub reddit, because deep down inside they know what they are hearing is so skewed that they need to seek out more info

It was remarkable how Morsi's election was hailed by western media as evidence of Islamists usurping the democratic process, and how the Egyptians elected "terrorists". Basically a "sky is falling" attitude. Then, on his ouster, they bemoaned the failure of democracy in Egypt. Perhaps they should try to stick with a single narrative.

I just wanted to add that Obama is not interested in cutting the financial support to the Egyptian military because all the money goes back to the States. So if he will cut this billion it will mean loss of revenue, loss of taxes, loss of jobs etc.

Interesting. Pardon my ignorance, but can you explain the US <--> Muslim Brotherhood link? My understanding is that they were mortal enemies...

[deleted]

Citation? The US has never had any love for the Muslim Brotherhood for decades. Why should it be different here?

You're Egyptian? Have you forgotten that "your" country was ruled by the military since the coup in 1952? And they're perfectly comfortable suddenly giving it up?

And pray tell, after several decades of giving aid to the Egyptian military, making them the wealthiest and most powerful group in the country, the US government has suddenly decided to back the other horse? (don't be fooled by US aid to Egypt, it's all just discounts on American weapons and ammo)

"the only reason muslim brotherhood reached power is that people tried to avoid military rule." Well done! You've successfully contradicted your earlier statement that the military "don't want power at all." Bonus points for the condescending tone describing anyone who doesn't like military rule as uneducated.

I'm not saying Islamic politics has all the answers (I'm rather opposed to any religion or overarching ideology in politics), but I will say that it's been the most effective avenue in the Middle East for critics of western-controlled/allied countries like Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. The roots of the conflict and current chaos are the same as the rest of the Arab Spring; The Arab world has been treated like neo-colonial possessions, a situation maintained by corrupt leaders who were propped up by the western democracies.

"That is why their upset that the people removed the Muslim brotherhood and call it a military coup to make it sound negative or wrong." - wow, firstly, it's they're, not their. Secondly, "the people" is a very ubiquitous term, such a broad term in fact that one might get confused when you use it because I was under the impression the military removed the muslim brotherhood. Thridly, the US government went through great pains to avoid calling it a coup so they could continue sending aid to their allies; the Egyptian military.

Never thought I'd say this but I really hope you're a troll.

Also.. Sisi = New Nasser. Nasserism reborn!

I will make it simple. The goal in Egypt is the same as in Iraq, Libya, and Syria - destruction of infrastructure and reallocation of wealth. In Egypt that could not have been accomplished in one step as was done in Iraq and Libya, and currently going on in Syria. So step one was to give power to a religious extremist group that would demolish the economy. Step two, help to depose this religious group. Step three, help to arm the religious extremists and encourage them to fight back for their "legitimate rights". In the end, Arab Spring for all...

its like all the news sources / channel gets their news from the same source.

It's like there is a canonical truth in life. I think they call it "fact".

Got a question for you OP. You seemed kind of apologetic of the Egyptian military - how do you explain both the military killing unarmed protesters with their hands up, and the fact that the military benefits from billions of U.S. tax money?

The sad part in all of this is all the Americans who based upon a few articles they have read from some biased media sources are convinced that they know exactly what is happening in Egypt and know what type of solution they want to have imposed on Egyptians.

The egypt military is linked with the US.

Is there any media to be trusted on the situation in Egypt and elsewhere in the region?

Also, thanks for sharing your perspective OP.

Democracy might not work.. Why not a republic?

Wow, thank you for schooling me so succinctly. I often times grow tired reading about and give up hope for the Middle East, so thank you for summarizing. I especially enjoyed your take on Western government involvements and the media biases.

On the German side: that is huge bullshit. The proper German news provide a very very good sight of the situation in general. We do know about the brotherhood and know that the military doesn't want any power whatsoever.

Before making wrong accusations, do your homework OP.

US owns Germany after ww2, there is no doubt about that.

I doubt that. You must mistake us with England.

All the loans that were played out by Rotschild banks to post ww2 germany attached the germany with usa forever.

No man, that debt is long gone but since this is /r/conspiracy... Believe what you like. Your knowledge about Germany is more than 30 years old.

Im going to believe this when u.s. will return Germanys gold.

Democracy should be based on a country where most people are educated.

So not the USA, let me explain why I think so.

People here are educated, but ignorant. Some believe they know what is going on, because Fox News told them. Others don't even watch TV and have zero idea about what goes on in the rest of the world.

Democracy is a good idea on a small scale, in small countries. But in large countries, the needs of the people in Detroit are far different than the needs of people in Washington.

And big issues like 'gay marriage', 'seperation of religion and state', 'Legalization of Weed', etc should not be voted on by the general public, but by people who have studied the issues and submitted their findings to lawmakers. If the reseachers ever find new material, then the laws need to be updated to reflect the studies. All studies need to be made public. All laws need to be posted in an easily accessible way.

If anyone disagrees with the result, it could be submitted for review, after they have read all the studies on a topic.

Democracy as it is, is not a good system anywhere.

EDIT: Do not vote this to the top, as it has nothing to do with egypt. @OP, thanks for the post.

What is happening must be done because Revelations 11 says so and it has started.

wut.

Yes

Revelation 11 is about two prophets in sack cloth?

That's an easy one. What is sack cloth? There is all types of clothing styles now.

you're a moron with a heavily biased opinion masquerading as an expert. Some of what you write may be true, but your a moron taking guesses and feeding into conspiracy theories.

Nice ad hominem, bro. Will you please qualify your statements to add to the discussion?