What can we do?

No seriously, what can we do, maybe I should come up with this answer, but there's this thing where if no one joins you, nothing happens... that I'm rightfully afraid of.

So where's the answer.

I've been disengaging lately from this conspiracy shit, and you can check my history if you think I'm disinfo, but NO ONE DOES ANYTHING. Maybe it's a slow growth, but there needs to be something apparent if that's the case.

Only thing I can say now (and always) is to buy a defensive firearm. Personal safety and power are the best things you can have in any extreme case. I don't know what to say until then.

Best I can come up with is to spread awareness however you can. The keeping of secrets from the general populace seems to be the only thing allowing the elite to do business. Educating enough people to foster a real shift in public belief is going to take time though. They've been building their empire of illusion for at least a hundred years. I don't believe it's going to just crumble over night.

We have to hit them where it hurts: Their bank accounts. We need to find homegrown alternatives to the power grid, housing, oil, food and transportation. If all of us worked on something, I mean anything, that would reduce our dependence on the elite for any of those things, it will better humanity for all time. I am personally working on something myself. Spreading awareness is almost akin to farting in the wind. In the end it gets us almost nowhere. You have to actually make a real change and lead by example. This is how we win.

Exactly. As far as banking goes, North Dakota sure seems to be on the right track. I don't even use Banks anymore, aside from small town credit unions. I even sold my vehicle and use my bike for transportation. Veggies in the garden too. We are capable of being a lot more self-sufficient than we let ourselves believe.

And we outnumber "them" 1000s to one. We don't depend on the Government. The govt depends on us. I wish more people could see that.

The problem is, there is a significant population of people who really do depend on the government, and either can't afford or aren't willing to inconvenience themselves in any way, no matter how shitty the government is.

Those are the people whose minds we need to change.

You're absolutely right. Aside from the people who honestly can not support themselves, (mentally/physically disabled, homeless, supporting others, or what ever their situation is) aside from them, what I see a lot of happening is people who don't care. They don't care to better themselves, to get a better job and pay for their own apartment/phone/family etc. When you are in a financially distressed situation and you receive money from the govt, even if you have the opportunity to get out of it, why would they? It's like this mindset that they're getting "free money". I remember when I was younger, getting welfare or any other financial aid through the govt was not something to be proud of. Now I hear people bragging about their "free cell phone" or "food stamps" or whatever it is. No wonder the POTUS still has support, even after all the shitty things that he does. He has the support of all of these people. Sorry if rant.

Rant away man, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

We've been conditioned to accept that we depend on corporations and the government. His else would they be able to get away with everything they are so obviously, blatantly doing to fuck us over?

You need to take a look at the welfare situation a little more closely. It may not have been designed as a poverty trap, but that's what it's become.

Personal anecdote. I'm a single dad, divorced a few years ago and have a couple of kids that live with me. Shortly after the divorce, my previous employer offered me a raise that I had to refuse.

Why? Because if I reported the raise, I would lose food stamps - and those were worth more than the raise! There was no way I could feed my family without them.

I imagine there are plenty of people in the same situation - a better job would see them lose more in benefits than the financial gains.

The system works as a trap - assisting until you're just able to stand on your feet - then kicking a leg from under you.

I understand exactly what you're saying. That is why I mentioned the people who fit into the category of honestly needing help, and that that is a different situation from those who are only taking advantage. I wish you the best and I hope things get better, for all of us!

Those are the people whose minds we need to change.

Or rid ourselves of. Or let perish as nature intended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life

If you can't survive without the 'welfare' of a criminal government, then maybe you shouldn't.

Part of a series on The Holocaust

Yep, we're done here.

Nature would drive them to kill you out of starvation so they could eat your food. Don't be retarded. You only barely understand the definition of the terms you're using.

Ya, I'm not gonna read that. Everyone deserves compassion. How we help those in need is in question, not if we help them. I'm a non religious conservative guy and and I fully believe in welfare. I just don't believe it should be long term, except the severely disabled of course.

Have a heart.

Altruism is a survival instinct, not a weakness, asshole.

How is the economic/employment picture up there? I'd love to get away from large urban agglomerations.

With the way things are going, I wouldn't personally move to a large city so I understand that. It's in good shape speaking economically. Employment is hit or miss, depending on the demographic you fall into. It's mostly a retirement based community, so healthcare is in great demand, but good luck finding anything technical like programming or engineering. There just isn't a market for it in our small city unless you can drive 40 minutes to and from a bigger city. I'll tell you what though, I feel a hell of a lot safer living here than anywhere in a large city or capital.

Basically sounds like Northern Maine, which is my first choice. I'll probably end up settling for Upstate NY.

Ny? Rights are infringed upon quite often in New York. Not to mention all the second amendment violations they passed into law

Yeah, that is a concern, however, I've had a cache of 2nd amendment items since the early 90s, which it totally off the books. VT is right next door, and has the least gun control in the country, prob a better choice.

Not sure about currently, but a year ago there was more good paying jobs in the gas/oilfield than there were people to fill the positions. I'm working in the Marcellus region myself, and things are slowing down, but not dropping off. I know a year ago ND had the lowest unemployment rate in the nation, something like 3%. Don't be afraid of being a laborer. As long as you do whats asked of you, its easy money. There's days where you bust ass, and there's days where you mostly stand around. It all evens out. By the way, pipeline is way easier than drilling.

I'm not afraid of laboring, but I had a bicycling accident last year and broke both me arms (one was backwards at the elbow, and it had to be put together with screws). Since the accident, I've had recurring issues, tendonitis in both shoulders, and repeated muscle strains. I'm also in my mid-upper (lol) 30s, so I don't think I'd be very competitive!

It's definitely not for everyone, I understand. The reason I said not to be afraid of being a laborer is because my hometown is FULL of people unwilling to work a 40 hr per week job and be home every night because you get free food stamps and way better medical coverage if you stay in the welfare system, so that's what they do. Its sickening. These same people would never last a full day out in my environment. At the first time hearing the word "laborer", they would imagine back-breaking work from sun up til sun down, and obviously wouldn't want to do that. Secondly, it must be something about a small town, but everybody that has a wife/girlfriend can't stand the thought of only being home on weekends. I can't stand insecure people; I can't understand that mentality.

Sorry to hear about your injuries. Hope your day to day life hasn't been to drastically affected. You should be through the worst of the lifestyle changes after a year's time, But I know what you mean. I have a joint condition myself, and I have to watch how much I strain my knees and back, or they will bother me.

How do you get into pipelining?

if you don't have a friend or family member to put a good word in for you, my best advice would be to ask around either at a busy gas station between 5-6 AM or at a bar that serves good food anytime after 6 PM and look for somebody who looks like they work in the gas/oilfield and just ask them if they know any companies that are looking for people, or ask where the closest yard is and go there around 7 AM and ask the people in the job trailer (not the tool trailer; the one that's like an office). Be polite, but try not to make it too awkward. I really cant think of any other way to go about getting into that field. I have a friend who got laid off and was looking for work last year, and I didn't want him using my name to get in anywhere,in case he made a bad name for himself like on his last job, so I told him to look up a certain company and apply online. He did, and never heard anything back. I imagine that's how most companies are, because there's enough people asking for a job in person that they never even need to look at applications that have been submitted online. Its kind of a buddy system and it can be hard to get in without a "buddy" to get you in, but once you in and you prove yourself, you know you can also get other friends on. That's how every crew is - a group of friends. If you work with the same group of guys 6 days a week, you become like family. We tell jokes, laugh, and have a good old time all day while we work and get what we need to get done that day. All the while being outside breathing fresh air, enjoying the scenery (where I'm working there's lots of hills and mountains). If it rains, you get paid 4 hrs of standby time and go back to the hotel room and play video games all day. There's not a lot of people who can say they love what they do, but I'm one of them.

Day to day life has not been affected, and I'll be starting crossfit this month, and should be back to normal soon.

And fuck those lazy people, apparently it is now cool to be on benefits. The way I remember things was that it was the lowest shame possible to accept assistance, and it was only to be used for a short time until you found something.

I remember those days too. I was brought up with the mindset to provide for yourself and your family, and I do my best. I can understand getting govt help if you are injured or disabled, but people in my hometown get approved for disability because they "have an attitude problem" or "can't take orders from other people". Why don't you just admit that your parents did a horrible job raising you, and that you're probably never going to amount to anything, instead of making shitty excuses about it.

These days it's about keeping the peasants placated, so they don't cause any problems.

Exactly. They only have as much power as we let them.

Veggies in the garden too.

This is good. We need to make this a big deal. Instead of "victory gardens" they are "liberty gardens".

Form trade networks that engage in commerce that is not taxed.

I want to be but have no land and am in no way getting any anytime soon. If I had land I would help SOME. I wish others would do the same.

Group up, spend at least 2-3 years planning it with 4-6 people, hash out the details over how you would want to do it and save all you can in that time. Found a self sufficient community, take a look at http://valhallamovement.com/ you don't have to do it the same, but use it to give you ideas. There are other like minded people out there, you just have to look for them. That's what I hope to do eventually, land is just too expensive to do it alone.

You can get off this ride at any time. - Bill Hicks

All the tools you need:

http://www.reddit.com/r/resilientcommunities/

http://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/

http://www.reddit.com/r/urbanfarming/

http://www.reddit.com/r/cooperatives/

http://www.reddit.com/r/renewableenergy/

http://www.reddit.com/r/permaculture/

http://www.reddit.com/r/aquaponics/

http://www.reddit.com/r/gardening/

http://www.reddit.com/r/homestead/

http://www.reddit.com/r/backyardchickens

http://www.reddit.com/r/OffGridLiving

http://www.reddit.com/r/SelfSufficiency/

http://www.reddit.com/r/simpleliving

http://www.reddit.com/r/dumpsterdiving

http://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/

http://www.reddit.com/r/livingofftheland

http://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Canning/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Strawbale

http://www.reddit.com/r/GuerrillaGardening

http://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/

http://www.reddit.com/r/postcollapse/

E: cleaned up a bit. Feel free to add to the list :-)

/r/frugal

It's late, and I don't have time to sort through these right now... But I'm posting here so I can figure it all out tomorrow. Thank you for this list.

ditto

BEN, LOOK AT THIS COMMENT!!!

I always appreciate these listings!

Nice list.

I didn't know about half of these. Thanks.

Reference for later

r/beekeeping won't be around for long, at the rate we're going.

When the bees go, Monsanto will 'miraculously' find an alternative. Patented, of course.

Also commenting to save, appreciate the list.

/r/privacy

/r/survival

Say I developed an easily made, efficient, non-pollutant device that could power an entire house (let's just say). I release the design on the internet for free and people start creating these devices around the world. Do you think those in power would let their income even slow down without a fight? Said device would be outlawed in more tightly controlled parts the world within a week. Until we rout out the corruption from our world's governing bodies, corporations and banks won't idly let us step away from them.

**I do completely agree that we need new forms of all of those controlled needs you mentioned. We could all be more self sufficient.

Please believe that I say this not for myself, but for the majority of the US:

But that is le hard.

You're absolutely right: this is what needs to happen. Fortunately for "them" and unfortunately for the rest of us, that is exactly what will never happen here. There just aren't enough progressive people in the US. These rich dudes have insured their plan: they've made sure we are (for the most part) lazy, uneducated, distracted, oppressed, hopeless, and that we can't turn to other governments.

We're in an abusive relationship with our government.

Your most powerful vote and weapon is your wallet.

Only because they spent the day worshiping a phony God.

It isn't about controlling the money. It is about controlling the faith in the money.

Almighty Dollar.

I keep telling people: stop paying taxes.

Just stop.

If they come to lock you up, let them (or defend yourself).

Bleed them dry.

If we only disengage on a consumer level, they will just buy their way into the new system. We need to bring back the consumer protections, union rights, and anti-monopoly legislation that used to reign corporations in. Otherwise, it'll just be a minority checking itself out of the mainstream as we turn into China.

/r/Agorism

Enh, not really a solution, more like burying your head in the sand.

IF you are disillusioned and the state recognizes this as so, they will just ship in immigrants that are willing to believe in the illusion

for a few generations.

Than more come.

and so on

Try hundreds of years. Think about how long societies have been fooled without the Internet? I know I wouldn't have half a clue without online access.

But what happens when you spread awareness and people still don't care? The number of people who couldn't care less about being spied on is so high it's heartbreaking.

I care. We care. We need organized protests. And when the government doesn't listen. Armed resistance

I suppose "spread awareness" isn't entirely accurate for what I had in mind. I'm talking about really taking the time to educate people as to why these issues matter and how it is affecting them. This means more than holding a sign with a catchy slogan or chanting some sound bite mini message at a protest. It means more than posting a link on Facebook with the tag line "THIS BLOWS! TELL EVERYONE!". It means getting down to it one on one or small groups and really engaging in a dialogue about the problems we face. Educating is a lot more challenging than simply telling, and requires the educator to really know their shit. So "teach everyone" is more what I meant.

Fuck that. These Honey Boo Boo watchers can teach themselves.

But they can't. Teaching themselves has led them to watching Honey Boo Boo and drooling over which contestant is leaving which show this week. The illusions the elites have designed aren't meant to be so easily seen through and realized. They need someone to break it down for them.

If they can't figure it out for themselves, we won't be able to break it down enough for them. I wish we could. But people have to want to change, lazy Americans don't want to commit time to bettering themselves. Which means, if we smarties organized, we could vote into office the change we want to see. The lazy fucks won't even get up to vote against us :-)

Isn't this entire system designed for them to NOT figure it out for themselves? Haven't the elite done everything in their power to facilitate that laziness? What of the professors, doctors, and scientists around the world, the "smarties", who still sit and watch as one country invades another, and turn to the NY Times for answers as to why? Most people aren't complete morons yet. They're just believing what their told, and doing the same. They need that outside source (You and I) to help them in the right direction to figuring things out.

You know, the worst thing about the people who conspire against the population is their dismissive elitism.

I try to explain stuff to co workers as best I can whenever I get a chance.

Empire of illusions

Very well said.

I have to give credit to Chris Hedges for that one.

Movement must first pass a threshold to overcome inertia, and in the USA there is an unbelievably large reservoir: the latent psychological drag of American exceptionalism.

we've been ready for the shitstorm so long, we kinda don't care about preventing it.

Perfectly said.

No one does anything?

How about Edward Snowden? How about anonymous? How about releasing files on the federal reserve? How about releasing files on the banks, credit card companies and US Military?

Many of these people are probably readers of conspiracy sites, Alex Jones, Coast to Coast and forums like this one.

There was a recent article in Buzzfeed about the proliferation of Anonymous members in the military. Many of them were hackers who joined because they wanted access to secrets and to learn how the world really works. Now that they've found out they're starting to leak.

We wouldn't be talking about the NSA if it weren't for the internet and people not trusting the government. We wouldn't be talking about NOT going into Syria if it weren't for the internet. If this was 1996 and CNN and NBC news told the nation that chemical weapons were used in Syria we'd all be outraged and ready for war. There would be no dissenting voices from the official narrative, which the internet now provides.

Things are getting better, we're just more awake to how bad it's gotten. It has been and will be a slow growth, but it's happening.

Just ask Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Brzezinski: ‘Global Political Awakening’ Making Syrian War Difficult

I get the frustration, but we're doing this, with or without you.

We would have never been told about the gas attack in the first place under totalitarian media. A la VX gas attack in IRAQ back in 1987.

Depends if the corporate owners want you to hear about it. We heard all about the babies he allegedly killed when we wanted to war monger.

Boy, you sure did show me dehehn.

What exactly are you "doing"?

That goes right back at you, and buying a gun for 'personal protection' isn't doing shit other than showing how selfishly you think.

At what point of other people actually 'doing' things will you finally join into the fray? How does discouraging the movement and the not acknowledging that higher level of awareness that is obviously present help anything that you seem to be so bitter about? Why do you feed the fires that you say you despise?

The problem are people like you; unwilling to even entertain a changing world, but would rather bitch and moan and point fingers at others. Maybe people in the USA aren't doing much, but the rest of the world is continuing to move forward. The technology will continue to spread and soon the US won't have the power it once did. At that point, it won't matter what the American people do anymore... So what are you 'doing' right now? If the answer is nothing, you have no right to demand anything from others in that regard.

I'm being a positive voice looking for better answers and spreading information to others when I find it. I'm not just throwing my hands up and telling people its hopeless. I'm not one of the big boys leaking things, but it takes all of us paying attention and changing each others views for the better to support the whistleblowers and good guys in government.

We need a revolution now. I'm willing to die for my rights and for the government to work for the people again

I'm willing to die for my principles too, but at this point I'm not delusional enought to think that those principles (mainly "freedom" haha, you know that shit our constitution was based on) will ever be on the offense. If I have to live by my principles it'll be getting raided by military police and shooting back.

Im proud to hear you'd die for your freedoms, and thats step 1. Step 2 is organization.

[deleted]

Former intern? Then you know that Congress and senate officials spend most of their time and energy dialing for dollars, right?

[deleted]

So we should also be writing the editors of the near defunct print media in our areas. Good call.

[deleted]

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to be passing it along to a couple of thousand peace activists through newsletters.

[deleted]

VeteransForPeace.org

:)

EDIT: Just to clarify, we already have a media-outreach division, a speaker's bureau, and engage in letter writing campaigns fairly regularly. But I do believe we have been neglecting to mention local representatives by name and that's a very important point. I'll get a reminder out to our members.

I feel that the Syria issue is one that input from constituents may actually have an effect, as the issue is not on straight party lines. However, if you live in a place that is perpetually blue or red, your input has no effect, and the party line will be followed.

I was just pointing out how corruption supercedes efforts within the system. Yours is a good course of action if you desire a receipt for your activism, but the chances of a positive ROI are slim.

I commend your dogged determination to work within a system that's demonstrably broken to the point of irrelevancy. In forming your neighbors and family is more effective. The likelihood of their passing the word along is much, much higher.

[deleted]

It's about knowledge and activation. If even 10% of the public cared about an issue, was knowledgeable about it, and used this process, I don't think the ROI would be slim at all. There's a networking externality involved in the system. If 10% of people took just an hour of their time writing a LTE on a given issue, I think the net effect of their combined efforts would in many cases change the outcome of votes in Congress.

And what's the current scheduling of medical marijuana? Has that changed? I know Obama said he's willing to defer to states rights on that, but is that concrete yet? Have the Federal raids on dispensaries stopped? Was that decision made in response to people writing letters, or in response to state level descisions which "required" Federal resources to respond to violently, resources that are now needed 'elsewhere'?

[deleted]

If they did, we'd very likely have different legislation on the books right now.

I'm of the educated belief that there's (been) an agenda at play in this country and worldwide, that doesn't set it's timetable to the wiles of the American public, expressed or otherwise. That it does, in fact, steer the desires and conversations of the American public.

I've also worked with the American public at large, and I can promise you the signal to noise ratio you're assuming is highly optimistic. That can't change without better education. And that won't come from schools. It comes from independently engaged citizens like you and me, trying to inform people of what is actually being done outside the halls of "publicly" controlled media.

There's any number of recent items that indicate to a large degree that our system of governance is co-opted. Not the least of which is ubiquitous surveillance of our elected officials. So you can write all the letters in the world, but I assure you our elected officials are more afraid of stepping on the toes of insiders than the faceless electorate.

[deleted]

As just an example, if I were born 20 years earlier than I was, it would have been impossible for me to know as much about the system and its issues and corruption as I do now.

That's why it's so hard for me to talk to my parents about Obama. They love the guy for his personality, but they can't seem to examine anything deeper than that. It's tough, but I still try.

Anyone who's ever been in sales knows there's three avenues to get your product out there: Television, telephone, and tell-a-friend.

Be for real.. You should no more than most that senators don't do many things that the people actually want or need.

[deleted]

So how do people like me change that? I must be missing something.

Watched this in a TED talk on Netflix: The most important person to a "movement" isn't the first person, but the second person. Alone, you're a nut dancing in a field (that was the example shown), but when just one other person joins you, the rest will see you not as a lone nut but as a open door invitation for anyone to join and now, with numbers, you can blend in with the rest of "nuts." Eventually, the "nuts" gain a following. If it gets big enough, the "nuts" now run the show.

So what should you do? Find a second nut.

Brazil took to the streets over bus fares, Americans are too complacent to care. I would have said scared, but they aren't and that's the problem. The population is pacified. Even if they get a little mad, it's just enough to post something on their Facebook page before the next episode of Dancing with the Stars.

There were many other factors leading up to the bus fare protests/riots. The fare hike may have been the last straw, but there has been mass governmental corruption, incredible class gaps, and rampant homicide for decades in Brazil. To equate the U.S. populace with the rather uncivilized Brazilian student body is a fallacy.

Good things are happening, my friend. Check out the Transition Town Movement for examples of good people going out to do good work all around the world.

The Cabal is weak and are resorting to desperate measures, so now is not the time to back down into a defensive stance. Now is the time to attack them with community gardens, cooperatives of all kinds, alternative currencies and the like.

Trust me on this. If you do something positive in your home town, you will inspire at least one other person...and they will ask to help you. Just go out there and do something!

[deleted]

/r/timetostartanew

This has been linked from this sub before, but a group of redditors are attempting to start a new version of a link aggregator, with a focus on free speech for everybody, transparency of the website, and complete equality. Its like a day and a half old, and we need new users to contribute their ideas and opinions.

It will attempt to seperate the "superficial" posts, which tend to clog reddit and offer distractions, from what's actually important, and will have a large focus on keeping the community active, engaged, and hopefully, productive.

You may be interested in checking it out, seeing what we are about, and maybe joining, as we hope to offer, among many other things, a free, open place to discuss precisely what it is we need to do to promote the ideals that our Constitution guaranteed, which have been systematically stripped from us.

/r/timetostartanew

Full disclosure: I am a moderator of the sub, but the mods are in no way leaders, just organizers. I am a mod because I have no life and am available basically all day to answer questions, post updates, keep things organized and whatnot.

What can we do?

Have you read the Constitution. The 2nd Amendment tells us what to do.

See, last time we weren't being represented, and were angry about it, was 1775.

We sit here and watch other countries rebel against governments spying on them, imprisoning them, taking their children... you know, all the stuff our own government does to us.

And you ask, "What can we do?".

Just by asking that... And your comment rising to the top. Shows we all know SOMETHING must be done. But we have been raised to accept the authoritarianism that is keeping us sitting on our asses, glued to a screen, waiting for someone else to do something.

Wait long enough... someone else will, though they will probably be Russian or Chinese. When we show our weakness as a people, and rally or "occupy" enough to distract our own government, I'm almost positive we'll be able to welcome our foriegn liberators.

Or we can do it ourselves. The choice, is ours.

Edit: Spelling

TL;DR: Is it time for 'The American Spring"?

Didn't the NSA and this war not prove conspiracies are not thoughts of crazy people; but thoughts of people who are good at seeing the truth. Maybe people should quit being afraid and stand up to demand true justice.

Yeah that firearm is going to protect you and you family from SWAT raids when the NSA finds some dirt on you they don't like.

if it comes down to that here in the US, there WILL be a revolution. We're not going down like that. we're gonna lose millions in the first purge, but then it'll be ON.

I just fear everyone will complacently obey, or over time get used to the injustices in the USA. Our ancestors would never dream that something like the NSA would exist, nor could they even fathom that they collected personal information from EVERYONE in the country without the citizens permission. I wonder if 4 generations from now our children's children will be used to the mandatory house checks by a surveillance company/branch.

This is a huge misconception about the American appetite for firearms. Of course we can't win a war vs. our military using a 9mm Glock and a Ruger 10/22. But, if the time comes when we are living without the rule of law, we CAN protect ourselves and our families with those guns. We can also hunt with those guns. And finally, if the outlook is too bleak, we can use those guns to check out.

That's why we love our guns. Options.

Patiently gather an argument without requiring the burden of proof to be carried by the govt. The second you demand proof, you sound like a nutter and they will call you a nutter. Work in small steps in your personal life towards sustainability and try to lead an example of non-combative wisdom. Show the ivory tower that you're not looking, don't need to, and never will need to, and those who understand your example will join in. But of try and be a tyrant about it you end u hurting the cause.

Tl;dr: GRASSROOTS!

Edit: *If you try to be a tyrant you end up hurting your own cause.

Until they segregate and kill you.

They can't kill us all. If they did, they'd have no taxpayer dollars to fund the death squad.

They could build robots to replace us, the only problem is they have to deal with the us for now. How do you think it's so hard for teenagers to get even a minimum wage job? Because it's all so sloooowly being "upgraded". They won't pull us off FED currency ever. It's all a part of the goddamn plan. Don't ever accept something for what you have in the bank. No, good guy, don't do that. Don't expect that.

They HAVE the death squad already. When you promise on having (good guy) bread over another guy, then you have two castes. The system was more blatant in India (in retrospect) but it'll mean the same in the end. It'll mean the goddamn same in the end.

So we'll be separated by optimists and pessimists?

Wouldnt be a domestic force anyhow, my guess would be the Chinese...

I've thought about this to an certain extent. In order to turn the tables someone needs to fabricate a story saying that Snowden just released new information eluding to a war with Syria. It specifies that the war has been in planning for a year and finalized from six months prior (or something along those lines).

It's not hard to make something like this work. Disinformation spreads just as fast as real information. People rarely stop to check the facts.

In short, play by their rules.

It seems people have ignored your comment but: I like the way you think.

If they have no rules, then what makes you bound to play by any set of rules?

So you want to counter lies with even more lies?

The American People are slow to wake up. But they are a sleeping giant. The reality is going to become very hard to hide from. The more people wake up, the harder it is to hide from the truth. Actions have to start small, and build up.

"Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their [the proles/masses] minds. To keep them in control was not difficult...

...and even when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontent led nowhere, because, being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty, specific grievances. The larger evils invariably escaped their notice." -1984

CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.

CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.

CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.

CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.

CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.

Start with Bitcoin. If it isn't outlawed, we've taken the huge step of becoming independent of big banking.

When you start asking questions like this, you know your gov. has become too powerful. Fuck me.

That's the thing. We all have so much to lose if we do something. Careers, education, family, income, our life, our liberty. People in the Middle East don't have those things which is why they are so easily able to just say fuck it, let's pick up our AKs and overthrow the government. They have nothing to lose. We're so afraid. And it's not our government who you have to fear if you stand up and say something, It's your fellow citizens who won't back you up because they are afraid to lose everything.

Take 10% of your savings and use it to buy Bitcoins. No, seriously. Don't participate in their financial system. Store your savings in a form of currency they can't control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrK-152xfy0

Get together and secede from the nation?

Personal and community self-sustainability are the only viable options. Every dollar that changes hands (its the flow of money that matters) is more energy going towards the authoritarian war machine. Stop the flow of money and you stop the flow of power. Grow as much food as you can, trade with your neighbors to keep money out of the equation, fix and build things yourself. When you do have to buy, buy local to keep the flow of money within an internal loop. If enough of us can figure out how to stop using money entirely, the system will fail.

Yea having a gun is super important.

Oh wait, that does nothing either except prop up gun companies.

I'm up for revolution: round 2. The problem is when I start talking about it people either think I'm crazy, am taking my freedoms for granted, or they'd rather keep things how they are. Spreading awareness sometimes is like telling people you saw a unicorn and asking them to join your unicorn hunting team.

Yes buy a defensive weapon because if we don't attack Assad, the shit is coming to our doorstep.

Solid message. Have you thought about a career in politics?

It's fall so it is too late to plant a garden.

The truth is you and I can't do anything. If you try to protest you will stand most likely stand alone, if you try to fight they will put you in jail and call you an extremist.

The entire country and even the European countries are against the attack on Syria but that's not stopping Obama, so what can we do? Nothing. Sit back and relax, cause this is going to be one hell of a ride, and just hope you emerge from the other side in one piece.

Why are comments like this always the top voted?

Don't be pessimistic. You could be out engaging people on the street with booklets of information, it's not "conspiracy shit" anymore dude. There's dozens of legitimate newspapers around the world reporting on a lot of this. It's factual. I try and personally spread information from legitimate sources, not conspiritard sources, legitimate real trusted sources. Petition your local politicians, gather their contact information and go around your town talking about this stuff and ask people to email your local politicians. Maybe it won't do anything, but the more pressure we put on people, and the more people we make aware, the better.

Seriously, It really bothers me that people still don't get this. Sure it might not change anything overnight, but why are you asking what we can do? There's plenty we can do to go out there and engage people. On the other hand, if you look like a crazy person, please just stick to whining on the Internet. There's too many crazy people out there ranting as it is.

I say we march to NSA headquarters or Congress and camp out front until we start getting answers as to why we work our asses off and struggle day in and day out for them to live fat and rich off our buck and sweat while also working against us in the most heinous of ways a government could, amongst other things.

Just waiting on a tipping point. The sheep shrugged at the NSA stuff so I guess we keep on waiting. Maybe Syria will deliver.

Make me famous and I'll represent all of young America. Kinda like Kanye West only humble? We can take back control of the media into our hands. Hell, I know plenty rappers and actors would endorse us and I (we) would focus on others and using our talents on self-betterment. Kind of a white version of ASAP Mob.

Would you just fucking shut the hell up?

Taking another shot on top of what's killing me because of you, you fucking asswipe. Kill yourself before I kill myself and you would make my millennium.

Even in your presently inebriated state I'd like to ask you to do a little research on Bitcoins. We could never be devalued as long as people sympathize with us. I'd personally like to offer you a much better job if my position were to be legitimized -- after you take some rehabilitation courses, of course.

Stop being a pussy. No offense to vagina.

How do we know you are working for the NRA?

I am kind of expecting them to say 'we have the evidence that shows who the bad guy is thanks to the NSA"

.

And they are holding it back until public outcry is peaked.

Yeah apparently some of the intel came from an intercepted call between Syrian army commanders. When people start bitching about the NSA again I'm sure we'll hear them credited. Spot on JoeOrange.

[deleted]

Who's to say it was handed to us at all? Apparently we can spy on Mexican and Brazilian politicians ourselves...

because internal conflict in syria is totally the NSA's bailiwick...will be justified by 'unearthing' some terror plot that makes 9-11 look like a family picnic

Really though what isn't their bailiwick? Their strategy is collect everything sort out later.

The Mossad allready took credit for that when they leaked it to a german newspaper. Kerry makes it sound like it is US intelligence, it is not.

According to this article they are two separate calls:

"A senior U.S. official, speaking only on the condition of anonymity because the information is classified, said the intercepted call wasn’t the same communication that American officials had cited to bolster their case that Syrian President Bashar Assad was responsible for the attack."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/04/201193/intercepted-call-bolsters-syrian.html#.Uinrz6a9LCQ

uh thanks I didn't know that.

Edit: I researched it a bit and I am not so sure anymore. I was not referring to the info the BND leaked to the Spiegel (which the article you linked talks about) but to the info the Mossad leaked to the Focus. The article mentions a Unit 8200 of the Mossad who supposedly intercepted this communication. I believe this is indeed the same source Kerry is using.

Yeah apparently some of the intel came from an intercepted call between Syrian army commanders.

After the attack...

Yeah apparently some of the intel came from an intercepted call between Syrian army commanders.

After the attack...

Yeah because the Syrians would get on the phone before an attack and discuss it... Plus, the US government probably wanted this attack to happen to justify involvement so who's to say they'd even try to stop it if they knew before the attack? And it's not like they're going to admit they knew before the attack...

My orignal theory. Outcry will peak.

NSA backs off

Massive domestic false flag, worst than 9/11

NSA: We were investigating this but you asked us to stop.

Public accepts Big Brother with open arms

Massive domestic false flag, worse than 9/11

Something absolutely worth considering. If the alleged chemical weapons overseas didn't provoke us enough, they could show up somewhere more obvious to the American public...

Given how we've positioned outselves, it would have to be something you could feasibly blame on Assad. The only thing I can think of that remotely makes sense would be a false-flag attack on Israel.

true, but that's a complicated one. It would have to have LOTS of coverage in Israel and LOTS of children for us to think about the children, and I'm not sure Israel would play ball. A Massive false flag cyber attack may be the most logical.

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/09/03/graham-nukes-in-hands-of-terrorists-could-result-in-bomb-coming-to-charleston-harbor/

http://www.infowars.com/exclusive-high-level-source-confirms-secret-us-nuclear-warhead-transfer-to-east-coast/

One dirty bomb set off in NYC, and Hello Big Brother, we set the table with our best china! Come on in and sit down!

People would be on their knee's begging for safety.

[deleted]

Ofcourse they have. Just turn on the television.

Television? What's that?

That box that's centre of attention in 92% of the living rooms (I made up that statistic).

And people sit and stare at it while people tell them stuff, without being able to question it? That's madness!

Didn't they just claim in the past few days that they have phone taps from Syria proving their case?

I'm going to be honest, thought my grandpa was a racist for saying voteing for obama was guarenting we would be working with al Qaeda, look at us now. Hes still racist though

I will assume you are white; you are walking down a road and come to a fork in the road, on the sign it has one arrow that points right and says "black area ahead, we kill whites" and the other arrow points to the left and says "white area ahead, we kill blacks" which way do you go?

I turn around and go back.

good answer

This country needs more people who think outside of the box.

Outside the path

But first switch the signs

Brave the wilderness between the two extremes.

both sides will patrol those woods, you'd still be screwed.

I'd like to think I'd do this

Swap the signs, pop popcorn.

No, wait... that's not right.

But three lefts is!

As a white guy, this describes the current situation perfectly.

Edit: I'll do an AMA if there's interest. Upvote if you want an AMA.

I don't understand this thought that we will be "working with" them. We will have a common enemy, and working toward similar goals but it is disingenuous to claim we'll be working "with" or "for" them.

Anyone who thinks we're going to open a line of communications and coordinate strikes with Al Qaeda is just a total fucking moron! I mean seriously....say it out loud without laughing! See if you can. I can hardly contain myself typing it up right now!

Modern Political/Militant Islam was created by the CIA to force out socialism in the Middle East, so the US will work with islamist if they follow US instructions.

The Obama administration has a weird way of always doing things that benefit Sunni extremist: Libya, Eygpt, Bahrain,Yemen.

Considering we CREATED Al Qaeda to fight against Soviets in the afghan soviet war it isn't that far fetched.

do yourself a favor and watch Charlie Wilson's War. It's not only a good movie but it actually happened.

Welcome to the dog and pony show. Nobody wants this, but hey the tv says they do so it must be cool right?

This is the exact reason why we have a domestic military under DHS NSA FBI ATF and local militarized police forces.

My suggestion is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Personally I'm trying to help as many people as I can realize these things, then I'm cheesing it.

Am I the only one who remembers that Libya was supposed to be Obama's Iraq, but it didn't end in a trillion dollar quagmire invasion like everyone said?

Don't forget Bush didn't want to leave Iraq in chaos, it just wasn't thought through. Lybia wasn't planned to be anything but a cesspool.

Wasn't there supposed to be a hearing on Benghazi that never happened because of some other event?

Wasn't one held a few weeks ago? I couldn't find anything on google about NSA congressional hearing right now. What are you talking about?

[deleted]

July 17th Congressional Oversight Hearing of NSA data collection and Surveillance. Full 3 hour video.

[deleted]

Great, I'll just keep rewatching this hearing.

I can't tell if you're being sarastic, but it looks like a hearing already took place.

Anyway, i found the one you're talking about. It's an informal congressional hearing in which Glenn Greenwald (columnist for The Guardian) was supposed to testify via satellite. That was cancelled and they planned to reschedule in September.

Just now in my Math class at college my professor asked what the probability is that we are going to go to war with syrua. The class was clueless and said nothing, as if they didn't care either way. I said it was pretty high and she asked if anyone was afraid. I wish I had more time in the day to do something. I work and go to school and then see whats going on in the world and feel helpless. I want to get involved, but can't afford to stop working or go to classes. Any ideas?

Sorry about that guy. Don't discount your education as long as it is pointed in the fullest direction. I was going to say "right direction" but your school will say that right is one thing, and your friends and parents another, and this sub reddit another.

So take a broad look. EDUCATE your self beyond class, but get the schooling too. A person can do a LOT and there is a growing market for things BECAUSE of the NSA stuff. Like secure communications for one. Affordable civilain security. Information tech and disemination.

Right now all anyone can do is learn and tell others. And maybe consider how to secure the future.

I want to get involved, but can't afford to stop working or go to classes. Any ideas?

That's your problem, right there. You're lazy and unwilling to sacrifice anything to see the outcome you want. I promise you that the wealthy who are fucking you are more than willing to sacrifice everything to see the outcome they want, and the fruits of those sacrifices are playing out right now in front of you.

My advice for you? Quit being a walking vagina. You don't have to get fucked if you don't want, but the road to change will always be uncomfortable. Maybe you won't do so well in school, maybe you won't have a regular job, but I'll be fucked if you won't know you did it all for the right reasons.

Don't browbeat someone who has valid concerns and questions. Some people understand better than others what "hard" means. Some people have less invested and less to loose in the current system. The choice is thiers to make.

But mostly, this sub reddit has seen an influx of new people. Don't fucking be an ass to them.

I suppose it's difficult sometimes. You're probably right, I shouldn't be so negative, but after so many years of watching it all go down the drain while people repeat the exact same worries about doing anything about it, it gets a bit old.

I know what you mean. But right now I think that things are to serious to be cynical. What is "new" to people is "new" to them. Ya know?

But I am a frustrated as you. Don't worry...lol

I try to remind myself every so often.

It is heartening to see so many people realizing how deep in the poo we are, though. Cheers.

Who made Obama?

http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?id=252218&sid=212226

Abner Mikva, the former Chicago congressman, federal judge and White House counsel to President Bill Clinton, puts a 21st-century twist on the notion that Clinton was "the nation's first black president."

"I think when this is all over, people are going to say that Barack Obama is the first Jewish president," he said.

Mikva, a powerful figure in local and national Democratic politics for decades, was one of Sen. Obama's early admirers, beginning in 1990 when he tried to hire the brilliant student and first black president of the Harvard Law Review for a coveted clerkship. (Obama turned him down, saying he was going to move to Chicago and run for public office. "I thought that showed a lot of chutzpah on his part," Mikva says with a laugh.)

Since then, Mikva's support for and nurturance of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee has never wavered. He is one of many influential Chicago Jews who have been among Obama's earliest and most ardent backers.

One longtime Jewish observer of the political scene, who did not want to be identified, said admiringly that "Jews made him. Wherever you look, there is a Jewish presence."

Americans have the attention span of fruit flies. The Rachel Jeantels that make up the 0bomber voting base have never heard of the NSA, Syria, Benghazi, or the IRS anyway. If 0bomber goes on TV and says we must bomb Syria in the interest of American security, most people will believe it. We are so incredibly fucked. Oh, 3 more Russian warships are entering the Mediterranean.

I'll grant you that we americans are easily distracted, but i feel that it's an induced state; around the 'mad men' era, the Machine started exploring just how much, and how far, a populace can be manipulated by mass media. The Internet makes it that much worse; the barrage of mis/dis/information is relentless.

Syria = distraction

DIVERSION! DIVERSION! ^{lookoverhere!}

Quiet, Football is on!!

Hold up a sec... Who's really to benefit from the chemical attack? That's right kids... the US gov't! And who's "covertly" supplying arms to the "opposition"? What a coincidence, it's the US gov't!

On a side note, CNN just had a "town hall" where they had two Syrian nationals in the audience: one Christian and one Sunni (supposedly opposite sides of the conflict). BOTH said they support Assad 100% and then they were both swiftly cut off. Oops! Who let them in without vetting their views! ;)

WELL...either both decided, separately or together, to lie their asses off during the vetting process, just so they could get those few words in...or the entire thing was staged. it gets pretty murky.

some people only care about today, and some worry for our future, am i worrying too much? people are living as happily as they can be... do we really need to quit living off the government?

-edit- or will continuing this path lead to our destruction of ourselves?

[deleted]

that's...i can't...but...

We need our own think tanks and good people helping to make our plans successful. We can find truth and help others gain traction.

Wait until next week, big distraction coming up.

I'd say if we actually go through with this attack, we have a bigger problem on our hands than the NSA. But if its all just talk and bullshit then it was a hell of a distraction from the NSA.

What are you talking about? NSA spying? Huh? How the fuck am I supposed to remember two news cycles ago when NFL football is about to start. You're crazy.

Assad is Hitler, right John Kerry?

There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 caliber machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

source

TIL Today I remembered Kerry killed women & children {codenames: "civilians/people"} with 50 caliber machine guns. He is a self admitted war criminal that drove weak frail lesser unable to defend themselves in a fair fight civilians from their homes with fire.

Worthy to be an American Statesman in an alternate house of cards universe held together currently in America by Operation Paperclip bulit on skulls & bones.

Free fire zones sounds hitleresque

--Word

As an aside, this puts the lie to all that 24 ticking clock justification for torture.

Suddenly....we MUST BOMB SYRIA....RIGHT NOW. Nothing fishy here.

Maybe it's a huge conspiracy. Maybe Congress just moved on to other things. Major issues tend to have shorter life spans if nothing is blowing up on them.

What were they meeting with them about? Security Stuff? I can't remember why but it sounds important.

"Quit yer bitching, little people. It could be worse. We could be using nerve gas on you, rather than just watching you shit."

Fuck you stumped 13. War solves nothing

The had to remind us why we need NSA, while at the same time changing the subject of the news cycle. It's all carefully planned you can bet.

I've been to distracted by the Miley Cyrus twerking incident and Kardashian stuff. Totally forgot about this

I dunno, the US seems pretty bad at agreeing with what the problem is. Can't come up with a fix or a solution without knowing what the problem is.

I guess that's why most people's solution is to just arm themselves.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjSPUN6alEbVel7UwFeVKIShBs1w?docId=CNG.ccc2e4b678092cd804db4e081596770b.431

visual isolation, manipulation of your mind, gcr related

Honestly we should just wait for the end game. The wheels have been turning for decades and Syria is the country they need to export oil from Iraq and Iran via the medeteranian sea. Once America has Syria they can suck whatever profits they can squeeze out of the middle east. Eventually oil will no longer be a viable option for profiteering but sadly we are decades away from that. Revolution is the only thing that would stop the landslide but as long as Americans have a comfy couch and netflix dying in the street seems unnessicary. Introduce a little anarchy, upset the established order and everything becomes chaos.

Wag the dog.

No, you are not the only one. I love how easily Americans can be distracted. Kerry must chuckle every time he lies to you. Reminds me of that Eddie Murphy Raw skit "Wasn't me".

Sorry, but I don't think you are allowed to remember, or think for that matter. Look over there...a squirrel...and a war in Syria!

I pretty much said this a couple of days ago. Right when the NSA stuff is suppose to go down... unproven chemical attacks happen in the middle east and they make sure to tell us that the attack killed 400 children out of 1500 people. mind you that is 1/3 the people killed were children.. a convenient number honestly.. making it 750 families of 3 Mom, Dad and child.

Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria

but but Syria..... Donald Rumsfeld.... 9/11 Flag...

I noticed it too.

My hope is that a strong defeat of the Syrian resolution gives Congress some balls to address the NSA.

It's a long shot though because I know budget fights will ensue immediately after this...

Can you give us some correspondence on this? Like where it was decided that we were to be having a congressional hearing instead of discussing a new war?

I'm not a troll, I just really want hard proof of this.

they can only show one crisis at a time, too much and Americans take the plug on the TV and

pull it.

It's a sad fact to come to terms with but your government will always spy on you whether it's through the NSA, DEA or your friendly neighborhood gardener. Where there is a will, there is a way. The only thing you can do is prepare yourself for the inevitable closing grasp of the realisation of Orwell's predictions and then some.

Could you give me some more information on Orwell's prediction this is the first time I'm hearing about it.

maybe prediction is a bad word but he wrote the book nineteen-eighty-four in which he talks about a growing, mind controlling, big-brother type police state. His literary foresight is a little scary

I've read some of the MK ultra stuff it interesting for some reason. I can't take anything I read as a threat.

if orwell's vision doesn't scare you, you're in the wrong sub, buddy :P

1984. Animal Farm.

sometimes gunfire is brighter than the sunshine

light shining in a place with inhabitants that would rather remain black? they turn on the propaganda machine on all networks, yelling about "guns, war, fear, death, war! over here everyone, look over there! important stuff going on over there!" as they recede back into darkness and remain there, watching you.

it doesn't matter what side you're on, the meaningful fact here is that you are distracted by it and "which side" everyone is on.

I will give one small example.

In my college class (more than one of them) the teachers are talking about how they agree and we should go to war with Syria.

This is bigger than just our government. Me, You, OP, we are all in the minority.

When I stated that Russia submitted 100 page report to the UN showing why it was the syrian rebels and not the syrian military I was told that conspiracy is easy to debate.

Even in a college setting we are supposed to blindly follow our supreme leader any marks or comments against him or a varying opinion you have just ostricized yourself congradulations you won't be getting an A in the class.

The magazines that we use in extemp are such like Time and Newsweek. Our online sources we can use in extemp are Huffington Post.

I believe we all need to zoom out and focus on what the majority dictates as factual and intellctual discussion and evidence. The NSA watching all of us will happen and it will just get worse it is time to move on to even larger topics how can a Hydra be destroyed?

NSA is last months news. The populace has moved on.

You're right actually. None of my friends seem to give a shit anymore. The only community that talks about it anymore in a non-joking manner is this subreddit and /r/technology.

What was that? I didn't hear you over the scream of going to war in Syria... Seriously though, I was just wondering the same thing yesterday.

Syrian 'action' by the US is little more than a distraction from what's really about to fuck the states.

At least NPR, and one my state's federal senators, were talking about the NSA today.

As cautious as I am to do so, because the general population of this sub is often both crazy and breathtaking gullible, I have to agree with you, the suddenness with which this bomb-Syria push became an instantly huge priority for this administration is pretty suspect.

I control-f'd for "Clinton", and didn't find anyone mentioning that the last time the US ramped up to and then executed a punitive and truly limited bombing like this is being proposed as was under President Clinton, in the midst of his impeachment.

Snowden releases before have been astonishing and terrible; today's was jaw-dropping. There could be even worse in the pipeline. It may be a bit conspiratarded, but I wouldn't reject anymore distraction from this playing at least a partial role in all this recent noise from the administration.

Make me famous and I'll represent all of young America. Kinda like Kanye West only humble? We can take back control of the media into our hands. Hell, I know plenty rappers and actors would endorse us and I (we) would focus on others and using our talents on self-betterment. Kind of a white version of ASAP Mob. You laugh, but I both encourage and influence my city, by appreciating others.

OMG! That is SO RACIST! WHY is the CLEANING LADY BLACK?"!

JUSTICE FOR TREYVON AND MESSIAH!!! FTW!

Do people really think the US government is creating the Syria situation just to avoid the NSA scandal? Are you people that stupid?

Its the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot to avoid getting punched.

The NSA scandal is so huge and involves so many both within the United States and outside, in particular my own country the UK, that its no wonder that both governments and the MSM are plugging Syria. From any point of view this scandal is immensely embarrassing so, if you were a politician/intelligence bureaucrat/intelligence contractor etc and in the position to do so, why wouldn't you emphasise such a dramatic and long term issue as Syria? You surely would want the spotlight off you and your partners in crime.

Furthermore, the United States might not even go into Syria and as such any possible negative consequences of intervention simply wouldn't materialise and yet the government and other implicated parties in the NSA scandal will have succeeded in, at least for a time, distracting the public enough to reduce the outrage. However if they do go into Syria they'll be able to get rid of Assad and weaken both Iranian and Russian influence in the region amongst other benefits.

It's not really that stupid at all but rather an effective method of PR and, dare I say, a way of killing two birds with one stone. Distract the public and get rid of Assad.

Do you really think the US government WOULDN'T do that? just to clarify, even if they're not CREATING the situation, they are EXPLOITING it.

No, its like shooting someone else to avoid being criticised. In fact, that's exactly what it is.

It's about knowledge and activation. If even 10% of the public cared about an issue, was knowledgeable about it, and used this process, I don't think the ROI would be slim at all. There's a networking externality involved in the system. If 10% of people took just an hour of their time writing a LTE on a given issue, I think the net effect of their combined efforts would in many cases change the outcome of votes in Congress.

And what's the current scheduling of medical marijuana? Has that changed? I know Obama said he's willing to defer to states rights on that, but is that concrete yet? Have the Federal raids on dispensaries stopped? Was that decision made in response to people writing letters, or in response to state level descisions which "required" Federal resources to respond to violently, resources that are now needed 'elsewhere'?

VeteransForPeace.org

:)

EDIT: Just to clarify, we already have a media-outreach division, a speaker's bureau, and engage in letter writing campaigns fairly regularly. But I do believe we have been neglecting to mention local representatives by name and that's a very important point. I'll get a reminder out to our members.

I'm not afraid of laboring, but I had a bicycling accident last year and broke both me arms (one was backwards at the elbow, and it had to be put together with screws). Since the accident, I've had recurring issues, tendonitis in both shoulders, and repeated muscle strains. I'm also in my mid-upper (lol) 30s, so I don't think I'd be very competitive!

No, wait... that's not right.

When the bees go, Monsanto will 'miraculously' find an alternative. Patented, of course.