Votes... Bahahahaha... Sorry, if you think that's how it goes anymore. I'm sure it's puppet theater. Sometimes it's the right, and when they get too pissed about that, they switch to the left hand to stir things up.
Stop feeding into the system and or parroting whatever you are told. Think critically. Raise awareness. Voting does have an effect, it's just limited. And more important than voting, is having someone that could be voted in. But given the amount of money to run for offices, even local offices, it's hard to find someone that isn't on some kind of payroll. Maybe it should be people like us, who are concerned with backroom deals, corporate governments, and a broken system.
Diebold sold its U.S. election systems business, primarily consisting of its Allen, Texas-based subsidiary, Premier Election Solutions, Inc., to Election Systems & Software, Inc. (ES&S), a leading company in the election systems industry. The sale was consummated on September 2, 2009. Diebold is no longer involved with any election systems in the United States.
I share your concerns of voting manipulation, but Diebold is out of the picture now it seems. The new owners are the ones you'd probably want to take a look at.
I know. I'm saying that in Congressional elections, gerrymandering is more likely responsible for the ineffectiveness of our electoral system than vote-counting fraud, not that fraud isn't also a worrisome issue.
So if I may.... just playing devil's advocate here....
If the game is as rigged as people think, and corrupt, etc, then what makes you sure it's inky two layers deep?
I mean, if I were orchestrating a global cabal, and using the R's and the D's as just a vehicle to achieve this cabal, why would I stop there? I'd have the Green's in my camp, all "Independent" candidates, the Socialist party, etc. Why would I take the risk? I'd let you Vite for anyone your little heart desires.... they'd ALL be "my team".
And you can "vote em all out" all you like, but you don't vote for Federal Reserve Chairmen, or Joint Chiefs, or CIA Directors, or NSA Directors, or .....
The people who are in power for 10-15-20 years at a time.
I mean, if I were "them" (whomever "them" is), I'd have built a system over the decades that ensured you as an individual could have all the say you wanted, and it wouldn't make a lick of difference.
You know.... just saying.
Voting won't do shit. The citizenry need to get organized and stage mass, ongoing demonstrations that DO NOT STOP until things begin to change for the better.
Help one another. Stop going to work. Stop paying your taxes, etc. Stop feeding the machine of your/our enslavement. Help one another.
People don't like their bubble of cognitive dissonance to be burst. Even in this sub, many persist in thinking that despite all the evidence to the contrary, voting somehow still works. Most don't like to be told that the only way that something's going to get done is not if you try to vote someone else in to do it for you, but if YOU DO IT YOURSELF. We all have to come together as one, but this takes a tremendous amount of self responsibility and initiative - initiative and responsibility that has been all but indoctrinated out of us.
We don't like to be reminded of the fact that NOTHING'S ever going to get done until and unless we put all our stupid, petty problems aside and behind us, come together as one, and work together to solve things OURSELVES.
This government sure isn't going to do it. It doesn't work.
For the first time in my life I'm ready to shout: 'anarchy.'
Well, being that Anarchy is NOT what most in this society think it is (i.e. a system that is "necessarily chaotic", violent, and disruptive), but can in fact be extremely organized, effective, and successful (just without any overriding "big brother" state entity watching over everyone and, instead, with every individual having to be responsible enough to make sure and take care of themselves), I'd say that Anarchy might not be a bad system at all actually.
A voluntary society in which we choose to participate and have the full right to [not-participate] should we so choose.
Exactly. You said in one concise sentence what I wasn't even able to articulate as well in a mini-paragraph. Well done.
I think these could only work as local entities.
I think they could only work with a responsible constituency - whether local or national. If the constituency were sufficiently responsible, hell, an Anarchic system could be global.
If L.A. were to break from the Feds I would be a proud L.A. resident.
Has anybody broken from the Feds? You're not living in an area that is free from the Fed's influence are you?
The Branch Davidians tried breaking from the Feds. That didn't pan out.
All of The South tried it in the mid-1800's with similar results.
Ironically, I would've sided with the South.
The only place that's kinda thumbing their nose at the Feds is Arizona. But it's really hot out there and there's not a lot to do. Plus they don't have much of a sense of humor. Nothing against them or anything. I just don't really think it's my speed.
Here in L.A. everyone's a freaking Liberal and practically ejaculates at the mention of Socialism. Which I don't really care about one way or the other. Its just that the bastards in charge would use any system, including socialism, to gain power. The Liberals don't seem to understand that psychopathy has zero regard for party affiliation or ideology; such things are tools to be exploited. And the Liberals will fawn over these psychopaths simply because they see the letter [D] in front of someone's name. The poor deluded bastards.
With enough people I think a break from the Feds is possible.
The Branch Davidians tried breaking from the Feds. That didn't pan out.
That seems correct.
All of The South tried it in the mid-1800's with similar results.
Seems to mean it's getting about that time to try it again then, no?
Ironically, I would've sided with the South.
On this issue, I think I may have as well.
Arizona. But it's really hot out there and there's not a lot to do.
Super hot in the summer. Pretty biting cold in the winter.
Here in L.A. everyone's a freaking Liberal and practically ejaculates at the mention of Socialism.
Ohhhh!!!! [ejaculating]
loljj
Which I don't really care about one way or the other.
Me either honestly. The effectiveness of really any system is ultimately dependent upon how it's practiced. I'd rather live in a fucking AWESOME dictatorship where the ruler is a rocking dude/dudette that always thinks about the people and puts them first rather than be in a "Democracy" that's been taken over by a shitty corporate government and turned into a practical hell hole.
Oh wait a minute...
Its just that the bastards in charge would use any system, including socialism, to gain power.
Eeeexactly. On the same wavelength, we are.
The poor deluded bastards.
This.
With enough people I think a break from the Feds is possible.
Baby steps.
I think it's time for us to start moving a bit faster, though, considering it seems TPTB have put their plans into a bit faster gear than ever before.
Keeping in mind that when you say "the people in power", it's neither the democrats nor the republicans. Until now, it's worked pretty well for them to just keep rotating the party in charge.
Oh that's so cute, you think the vote actually matters. By now you should realize there was no different between Romney/Obama, Bush/Kerry, etc.
A 3rd party system is worthless in the US because first-past-the-post voting will always result in two major parties. We need something closer to the Australian system where you have an alternative preference vote with instant runoff. Even with that system, they still elected Tony Abbott! Even so, the American system will never support a 3rd party (not since the Whigs anyway).
Fairly reasonable. If the big two parties see enough people voting 3rd party then they'll get worried and be forced to address it, or risk losin gtheir cushy jobs.
Vote libertarian man, if you don't understand what they believe in you should watch Stossel. He's one of the most unbiased reporters because he invites people from both sides to his show. By both sides I mean liberal/republican and libertarian, big government and no government.
The problem is that just about any politician who can gain enough prominence to run for the presidency gets there on a moneyslide provided by corporate interests. Assuming voting actually still works, clearing out one government will just allow a different set of corrupt people in.
American politics is like a mud puddle. You can pour all of the fresh "water", read politicians, in that you like. You still have a mud puddle because of the behind the scenes bribery. the puddle needs an effective liner placed under it.
I have suggested many times how that might be done.
Basically you screen out those with psychopathic or greedy tendencies and then government officials will be eager to show they aren't among the super greedy who lack empathy or understanding.
The difference would be unbelievable
We screen pedophiles out of positions at daycare centers.
We should screen people who are psychopaths or near that description out of positions where their proclivities could harm all of humanity.
You have the first part right, but we're long past the point where voting matters. By the time you hear a candidate's name, they're bought and paid for. Elections are only held to maintain the illusion of representation. They will relinquish the illusion long before they'll relinquish control.
Vote? seriously? voting everyone out is your solution?
Voting won't work, protesting won't work either. They are 100 steps ahead of us. Good old fashioned revolution won't work. At best we might get it back temporarily through a revolution, but they will already have their people ready to pounce on any available opening.
Vote one out, another comes in. The same people control the stream of candidates. Nobody becomes a serious candidate without the approval and support of the wealthy Jews. They control the elections. If somebody runs they don't like (such as Ron Paul), that person is completely ignored in the press, or if necessary, attacked and mocked, and never has a chance. Most of the money comes from the wealthy Jews, so those they don't like don't get campaign contributions. The best people are afraid to work for their campaigns for fear their careers will be destroyed. The Jews have the entire election system locked up.
Seriously though, I'm a huge fan of 3D printing and I expect it to become even more of a disruptive technology in the future (in a good way). We're still in the very early days of it though.
how is it you or anyone knew about any of these people to begin with, who told you that you could choose from these people? and when it was time to vote? and who told you who won?
Voting within the current system really won't do much good. The system is compromised. The U.S. government doesn't care about us or our interests. I think our only option is to seek help from other countries and plea for liberation.
I know. I'm saying that in Congressional elections, gerrymandering is more likely responsible for the ineffectiveness of our electoral system than vote-counting fraud, not that fraud isn't also a worrisome issue.
59 comments
33 TheWorldToCome 2013-09-15
It's not about who you vote for, it's about who counts the votes.
11 MUHBISCUITS 2013-09-15
Votes... Bahahahaha... Sorry, if you think that's how it goes anymore. I'm sure it's puppet theater. Sometimes it's the right, and when they get too pissed about that, they switch to the left hand to stir things up.
2 Acranist1 2013-09-15
so what are we supposed to do when voting has no effect? do we start a war or stop being a part of the system
2 MUHBISCUITS 2013-09-15
Stop feeding into the system and or parroting whatever you are told. Think critically. Raise awareness. Voting does have an effect, it's just limited. And more important than voting, is having someone that could be voted in. But given the amount of money to run for offices, even local offices, it's hard to find someone that isn't on some kind of payroll. Maybe it should be people like us, who are concerned with backroom deals, corporate governments, and a broken system.
4 productionx 2013-09-15
Who really owns diebold?
2 Meister_Vargr 2013-09-15
I share your concerns of voting manipulation, but Diebold is out of the picture now it seems. The new owners are the ones you'd probably want to take a look at.
1 TheUltimateSalesman 2013-09-15
http://www.dominionvoting.com/company These guys bought part of that.
2 metapunditedgy 2013-09-15
It's also about who you vote for, actually. Don't miss a chance to register your dissent.
1 drowninginthedarknes 2013-09-15
Yeah, because voting has helped prevent so many wars. Fuck that shit. State voting still does a little... For now.
1 snstrmstch 2013-09-15
Gerrymandering.
1 whiteboyblack 2013-09-15
Idk if that's gerrymandering
1 snstrmstch 2013-09-15
I know. I'm saying that in Congressional elections, gerrymandering is more likely responsible for the ineffectiveness of our electoral system than vote-counting fraud, not that fraud isn't also a worrisome issue.
6 letsownthenwo 2013-09-15
less then 20% of americans approve of the job congress is doing
yet like 90% of them get voted back into office
its wholeheartedly, GERRYMANDERING
19 danxmason 2013-09-15
Get your 3rd party voting ballots and your guns. If they don't accept the 1st, then you may need to use your 2nd.
1 no1113 2013-09-15
The 1st has never been accepted. You didn't already know this?
0 danxmason 2013-09-15
It has in Vermont with Bernie sanders.
-1 letsownthenwo 2013-09-15
i guess hes an israeli citizen as well? idk, hes obviously one of the few good politicians
17 [deleted] 2013-09-15
So if I may.... just playing devil's advocate here....
If the game is as rigged as people think, and corrupt, etc, then what makes you sure it's inky two layers deep? I mean, if I were orchestrating a global cabal, and using the R's and the D's as just a vehicle to achieve this cabal, why would I stop there? I'd have the Green's in my camp, all "Independent" candidates, the Socialist party, etc. Why would I take the risk? I'd let you Vite for anyone your little heart desires.... they'd ALL be "my team".
And you can "vote em all out" all you like, but you don't vote for Federal Reserve Chairmen, or Joint Chiefs, or CIA Directors, or NSA Directors, or ..... The people who are in power for 10-15-20 years at a time.
I mean, if I were "them" (whomever "them" is), I'd have built a system over the decades that ensured you as an individual could have all the say you wanted, and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. You know.... just saying.
4 archonemis 2013-09-15
This is why I no longer regard the U.S. Federal government as having any authority over me.
The only thing they have over me is duress: violence and coercion.
I'm finding that I'm more and more an agorist as the days go on.
9 no1113 2013-09-15
Voting won't do shit. The citizenry need to get organized and stage mass, ongoing demonstrations that DO NOT STOP until things begin to change for the better.
Help one another. Stop going to work. Stop paying your taxes, etc. Stop feeding the machine of your/our enslavement. Help one another.
1 archonemis 2013-09-15
I don't understand why this is being downvoted.
It's completely reasonable.
2 no1113 2013-09-15
People don't like their bubble of cognitive dissonance to be burst. Even in this sub, many persist in thinking that despite all the evidence to the contrary, voting somehow still works. Most don't like to be told that the only way that something's going to get done is not if you try to vote someone else in to do it for you, but if YOU DO IT YOURSELF. We all have to come together as one, but this takes a tremendous amount of self responsibility and initiative - initiative and responsibility that has been all but indoctrinated out of us.
We don't like to be reminded of the fact that NOTHING'S ever going to get done until and unless we put all our stupid, petty problems aside and behind us, come together as one, and work together to solve things OURSELVES.
This government sure isn't going to do it. It doesn't work.
5 archonemis 2013-09-15
For the first time in my life I'm ready to shout: 'anarchy.'
A voluntary society in which we choose to participate and have the full right to [not-participate] should we so choose.
I think these could only work as local entities.
If L.A. were to break from the Feds I would be a proud L.A. resident.
-1 no1113 2013-09-15
Well, being that Anarchy is NOT what most in this society think it is (i.e. a system that is "necessarily chaotic", violent, and disruptive), but can in fact be extremely organized, effective, and successful (just without any overriding "big brother" state entity watching over everyone and, instead, with every individual having to be responsible enough to make sure and take care of themselves), I'd say that Anarchy might not be a bad system at all actually.
Exactly. You said in one concise sentence what I wasn't even able to articulate as well in a mini-paragraph. Well done.
I think they could only work with a responsible constituency - whether local or national. If the constituency were sufficiently responsible, hell, an Anarchic system could be global.
Has anybody broken from the Feds? You're not living in an area that is free from the Fed's influence are you?
4 archonemis 2013-09-15
The Branch Davidians tried breaking from the Feds. That didn't pan out.
All of The South tried it in the mid-1800's with similar results.
Ironically, I would've sided with the South.
The only place that's kinda thumbing their nose at the Feds is Arizona. But it's really hot out there and there's not a lot to do. Plus they don't have much of a sense of humor. Nothing against them or anything. I just don't really think it's my speed.
Here in L.A. everyone's a freaking Liberal and practically ejaculates at the mention of Socialism. Which I don't really care about one way or the other. Its just that the bastards in charge would use any system, including socialism, to gain power. The Liberals don't seem to understand that psychopathy has zero regard for party affiliation or ideology; such things are tools to be exploited. And the Liberals will fawn over these psychopaths simply because they see the letter [D] in front of someone's name. The poor deluded bastards.
With enough people I think a break from the Feds is possible.
Baby steps.
4 no1113 2013-09-15
That seems correct.
Seems to mean it's getting about that time to try it again then, no?
On this issue, I think I may have as well.
Super hot in the summer. Pretty biting cold in the winter.
Ohhhh!!!! [ejaculating]
lol jj
Me either honestly. The effectiveness of really any system is ultimately dependent upon how it's practiced. I'd rather live in a fucking AWESOME dictatorship where the ruler is a rocking dude/dudette that always thinks about the people and puts them first rather than be in a "Democracy" that's been taken over by a shitty corporate government and turned into a practical hell hole.
Oh wait a minute...
Eeeexactly. On the same wavelength, we are.
This.
I think it's time for us to start moving a bit faster, though, considering it seems TPTB have put their plans into a bit faster gear than ever before.
1 Meister_Vargr 2013-09-15
So, have you stopped paying your taxes yet?
2 no1113 2013-09-15
Have we as a mass of people gotten organized and together and put all our differences aside yet? One cannot happen without the other happening first.
8 TheUltimateSalesman 2013-09-15
I'm done with the two party system. I'm voting 3rd party and I don't give a shit what the 3rd party is.
11 ElephantGlue 2013-09-15
Like the people in power would actually allow the people to vote them out....
5 metapunditedgy 2013-09-15
Keeping in mind that when you say "the people in power", it's neither the democrats nor the republicans. Until now, it's worked pretty well for them to just keep rotating the party in charge.
4 djsumdog 2013-09-15
Oh that's so cute, you think the vote actually matters. By now you should realize there was no different between Romney/Obama, Bush/Kerry, etc.
A 3rd party system is worthless in the US because first-past-the-post voting will always result in two major parties. We need something closer to the Australian system where you have an alternative preference vote with instant runoff. Even with that system, they still elected Tony Abbott! Even so, the American system will never support a 3rd party (not since the Whigs anyway).
The US needs a new constitution.
3 [deleted] 2013-09-15
I'm never voting for a Democrat or Republican again.
1 Meister_Vargr 2013-09-15
Fairly reasonable. If the big two parties see enough people voting 3rd party then they'll get worried and be forced to address it, or risk losin gtheir cushy jobs.
0 stridernfs 2013-09-15
Vote libertarian man, if you don't understand what they believe in you should watch Stossel. He's one of the most unbiased reporters because he invites people from both sides to his show. By both sides I mean liberal/republican and libertarian, big government and no government.
4 [deleted] 2013-09-15
The problem is that just about any politician who can gain enough prominence to run for the presidency gets there on a moneyslide provided by corporate interests. Assuming voting actually still works, clearing out one government will just allow a different set of corrupt people in.
4 Superconducter 2013-09-15
American politics is like a mud puddle. You can pour all of the fresh "water", read politicians, in that you like. You still have a mud puddle because of the behind the scenes bribery. the puddle needs an effective liner placed under it.
I have suggested many times how that might be done.
Basically you screen out those with psychopathic or greedy tendencies and then government officials will be eager to show they aren't among the super greedy who lack empathy or understanding.
The difference would be unbelievable
We screen pedophiles out of positions at daycare centers.
We should screen people who are psychopaths or near that description out of positions where their proclivities could harm all of humanity.
2 HS_00 2013-09-15
You have the first part right, but we're long past the point where voting matters. By the time you hear a candidate's name, they're bought and paid for. Elections are only held to maintain the illusion of representation. They will relinquish the illusion long before they'll relinquish control.
2 downvotesandhatemail 2013-09-15
Voting doesn't work, or it would have happened already. THROW them the fuck out.
2 [deleted] 2013-09-15
Vote? seriously? voting everyone out is your solution? Voting won't work, protesting won't work either. They are 100 steps ahead of us. Good old fashioned revolution won't work. At best we might get it back temporarily through a revolution, but they will already have their people ready to pounce on any available opening.
2 4too 2013-09-15
Vote one out, another comes in. The same people control the stream of candidates. Nobody becomes a serious candidate without the approval and support of the wealthy Jews. They control the elections. If somebody runs they don't like (such as Ron Paul), that person is completely ignored in the press, or if necessary, attacked and mocked, and never has a chance. Most of the money comes from the wealthy Jews, so those they don't like don't get campaign contributions. The best people are afraid to work for their campaigns for fear their careers will be destroyed. The Jews have the entire election system locked up.
1 [deleted] 2013-09-15
Votes are bought. It's the illusion that keeps you in control.
1 Shittymobileacct 2013-09-15
It's not who you vote for, it's about how well you can use CAD software and 3D printers.
2 Meister_Vargr 2013-09-15
You want to print an alternative candidate? ;-)
Seriously though, I'm a huge fan of 3D printing and I expect it to become even more of a disruptive technology in the future (in a good way). We're still in the very early days of it though.
1 cccpcharm 2013-09-15
how is it you or anyone knew about any of these people to begin with, who told you that you could choose from these people? and when it was time to vote? and who told you who won?
1 RCiancimino 2013-09-15
Wolf-pac.com getting the money outta politics.
1 cccpcharm 2013-09-15
all you have to do is stop using the usd,euro,yen, and or any of their brand name currency...and start using something else.
1 Deprogrammer9 2013-09-15
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
1 billsang1 2013-09-15
If voting mattered it would be illegal.
Said somebody
1 MatsuSinclair 2013-09-15
Voting within the current system really won't do much good. The system is compromised. The U.S. government doesn't care about us or our interests. I think our only option is to seek help from other countries and plea for liberation.
1 marikc0 2013-09-15
Agreed.
1 GMOsInMyGelato 2013-09-15
O OK
1 TheBigBadDuke 2013-09-15
liars, killers, and thieves.
1 pdid_ 2013-09-15
The illusion of choice...
0 kaits35 2013-09-15
Hahahaha vote everyone out that part killed me !!!
2 cccpcharm 2013-09-15
quaint notions from a more innocent time...
0 colaturka 2013-09-15
But you surely need more karma.
1 snstrmstch 2013-09-15
I know. I'm saying that in Congressional elections, gerrymandering is more likely responsible for the ineffectiveness of our electoral system than vote-counting fraud, not that fraud isn't also a worrisome issue.