Someone Please Tell Me The Rules

53  2013-09-21 by [deleted]

I've been overseas for sometime, and my deployments now seem like they lasted longer than they did...It's like I've returned to a nut house.

I used to drive back and forth between Nevada, Arizona and California. 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines...Sure. Sometimes a guy at some border waves me through. I don't have any vegetables to hide.

Tonight? I got stopped at a "checkpoint" between Arizona and San Diego.

HERE IS WHAT BLEW MY MIND: (And I mean this might be old news to you but I am seeing this shit first hand for the first time and I can't fucking believe it)

The Federal Agent asked me whether I am a US Citizen. WHAT? Is he allowed to do that?

Look, it just felt wrong. I felt uncomfortable, immediately. Here's all that happened.

I saw signs on the 8 saying there was a checkpoint ahead. The highway was choked into a single lane. Ahead were many fluorescent spots and Border Patrol vehicles.

As I approached, a set of HD cameras and illumination sets were positioned to photograph the rear of my vehicle - and my face. Since this was a first to me, they probably now have a picture of me staring quizzically at the screen, totally going "DAFUQ"?

The vehicle in front of me stopped and was momentarily observed by a uniformed agent. The whole time I'm thinking "What is happening?" Now I realize I was very naive. And I don't mind telling you the whole scenario reminded me of a shitty part of the world I wanted to forget. It felt like a security checkpoint in a war zone. That shit fucks with you.

I pulled up and yawned as the agent approached my vehicle. I'm very white looking (sorry) and of course in uniform on my way to base. The agent asked me if I was a citizen and I simply said, "Yes". And he waved me through.

The next hour I drove to San Diego, just like I did as a recruit. But this time, I'm wondering...

WHAT THE HELL DID THAT AGENT JUST ASK ME

I'm so fucking mad right now, what should I have done instead? That asshole doesn't have the right....

Does he?

EDIT - thanks everybody for the cool responses. I want to tell you about the conversation I had with a buddy of mine that's getting out of the Marines next month. I wish I could tell you how the convo started (Some FUCKED up shit he saw in Iraq that's getting him a free ride out of the military and into government contracting), but what we kept going on about was "If I look really 'American', am wearing a uniform and really don't fit the 'stereotype' of someone who was not a citizen, then why did he ask?"

We were saying things like, "Well, he has to ask everyone" or "If he doesn't, he can be accused of stereotyping"...but there was a more worrisome answer to the question..."Because he has to make as many people as possible 'know' that they can do what they want"

20 comments

24  danxmason 2013-09-21

Top checkpoint refusals.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Du4Ku17CqdZg

3  DwarvenPirate 2013-09-21

Hah that last one was great.

19  sinominous 2013-09-21

So glad I don't live in America: Land of the Free

Good luck y'all.

12  united68 2013-09-21

I am a Brit living in the States for the past 5 years, staying with family in different states, Missouri, Boise, Portland, Kansas, Chicago...what I have seen develop over the past five years is frightening indeed. What has happened, very slowly by the government, is the slow removal and changing of regularly regarded ''freedoms''. A law here, a law there, a Supreme Court decision there, a cop killing innocent children after kicking in the wrong door during a raid there. By doing it this way, and by letting people still watch TV, get on Facebook, letting people say small, bad things about the government...This causes the regular minded masses not to realize what is going on. They feel that because they can say ''Fuck Obama'' on facebook that they are free. ''I can go to walmart and buy whatever I want, it isn't like I am being forced to do anything''...That mentality.

7  jmanda1 2013-09-21

It's quite scary indeed.

1  JuneRunner11 2013-09-21

Just out of curiosity, where do you live?

13  gregcm 2013-09-21

No, not according to the supreme law of the nation (the Constitution - 4th amendment, Bill of Rights), but that seems like it is not important any more to those in power or those that are hired to enforce the unconstitutional regulations. Why do you stick your neck out in the military protecting that document (as you swore to do) if your rulers won't abide by it?

2  windandstorm 2013-09-21

Exactly this, you used to have the right not to answer that question, (or the person is not allowed to ask) but all that's gone now. I miss America; not enough to go there.

8  [deleted] 2013-09-21

[deleted]

5  TheUltimateSalesman 2013-09-21

I don't recognize the Constitution Free Zone. It won't hold up in a legal challenge either.

1  [deleted] 2013-09-21

That has to be a fucking joke.

5  DwarvenPirate 2013-09-21

In today's climate, you are going to lose any constitutional challenges of power. The only thing you can really do to resist and not go to jail is to not say anything but your name, and that only when ordered. If you aren't sure if some command or question is an order, simply ask "Is that an order?" Once he says "yes", you must assume that now everything that follows is an order that you must lawfully follow. However, you only ever have to give your name, I believe.

You should ask this in /r/law/

3  DwarvenPirate 2013-09-21

The Terry Court recognized in dictum that “not all personal intercourse between policemen and citizens involves ‘seizures’ of persons,” and suggested that “[o]nly when the officer, by means of physical force or show of authority, has in some way restrained the liberty of a citizen may we conclude that a ‘seizure’ has occurred.”

That is from Annotated Constitution

A checkpoint likely constitutes "show of authority", so once stopped you could assume that you are in a seizure situation; being detained.

However,

brief questioning, even with blocked exits, amounted to “classic consensual encounters rather than Fourth Amendment seizures.”

What that means is that if you choose to speak to police, you give up rights.

So, you must give your name, and after that you should just ask if you are free to leave or state that you must not answer any questions without the advice of counsel.

3  DwarvenPirate 2013-09-21

A Terry search need not be limited to a stop and frisk of the person, but may extend as well to a protective search of the passenger compartment of a car if an officer possesses “a reasonable belief, based on specific and articulable facts . . . that the suspect is dangerous and . . . may gain immediate control of weapons.

“‘One has a lesser expectation of privacy in a motor vehicle because its function is transportation and it seldom serves as one’s residence or as the repository of personal effects. . . . It travels public thoroughfares where both its occupants and its contents are in plain view.”’

The reduced expectancy concept has broadened police powers to conduct automobile searches without warrants, but they still must have probable cause to search a vehicle62 and they must have some “articulable suspicion” of criminal activity in order to make random stops of vehicles on the roads. By contrast, fixed–checkpoint stops in the absence of any individualized suspicion have been upheld.64 Once police have validly stopped a vehicle, they may also, based on articulable facts warranting a reasonable belief that weapons may be present, conduct a Terry–type protective search of those portions of the passenger compartment in which a weapon could be placed or hidden .65 And, in the absence of such reasonable suspicion as to weapons, police may seize contraband[p.1240]and suspicious items “in plain view” inside the passenger compartment.

5  [deleted] 2013-09-21

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nAZC80xgMo

4  [deleted] 2013-09-21

I'm sure there is something against unreasonable search or seizure, don't know if that extends to questions.

Unforutnetly I think the problem is that if you have some asshole in uniform asking you a question, it's not optional.

3  TheUltimateSalesman 2013-09-21

I AM NOT A LAWYER:

This is the deal, they don't have a REASON to stop you. They must have Probable Cause. Unless you are crossing the border, or at an airport, they have no legit reason to stop you. That's why each one of these DHS refusals go nowhere:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Du4Ku17CqdZg
Depending on your state, the only thing you MIGHT HAVE to do is identify yourself. This means showing ID. If you don't have ID, they might be able to hold you for a reasonable time to ID you. (72 hour hold)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
I'm 99% sure they can't stop you just to ID you, but they could easily trump up ANY bullshit for PC. So, have your ID and then refuse to cooperate.

4  ridgeberry 2013-09-21

r/amifreetogo

4  jakenichols 2013-09-21

When I was on tour in a punk band we got stopped at that same checkpoint on I-10 from Phoenix to San Diego. Scary shit because we had a lot of equipment and "illegal" items.

3  MrPSAGuy 2013-09-21

Are you kidding? You were on deployments overseas and you didn't know the Taliban uses plain white flags? Where were you deployed - Sweden?

Sure the police state is a travesty. But your post seems like another brick in that wall.

2  monkee67 2013-09-21

http://youtu.be/bL0CCphgmZ8 even more true today