Honestly, if we can be introspective for a bit, this is a perfect example of why most of mainstream reddit thinks of /r/conspiracy as a bunch of kooks.

That's not to say there aren't substantive posts that get overlooked, or that this place isn't crawling with shills.

But assume that this post is legit and submitted by a real person without any ulterior motive other then expressing their opinion.

This post is hyperbolic, based entirely on speculation, and shows little to no understanding of the issues that are unfolding in Washington.

This was planned years to come. Many people will die and it will start a global economic crisis.

What is this nonsense?? How does this get 38 upvotes?

I often come here for alternative perspectives and intelligent debates but it's this kind of nonsense that makes me come here less frequently, and the fact that it's been upvoted means that people who are just stumbling in here for the first time are unlikely to return -- except perhaps to mock the ludicrous claims made without a shred of tangible evidence.

And in this case -- they'd be right.

If you think there aren't any grey areas in topics as speculative as "Conspiracy Theories", you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm not saying there aren't grey areas. But when you try to assert speculation as fact without any kind of tangible evidence -- you're gonna have a bad time.

Hey its your own idiotic fault if you dont realize this is speculation. We shouldnt have to kiss your ass and pat you on the head and preface everything with "THIS IS SPECULATION" because the rest of us get it. Derp.

I obviously do realize it's speculation because that's the basis of my argument....

Reading comprehension much?

'argument' adorable.

can you whiny, apologist slaves stop making posts like this?

i really do not even remotely care what "mainstream reddit" thinks of me or the rest of the people who post and read /r/conspiracy. and i don't think that any of the rest of the real members of this community do either. isn't that the entire reason why we're here? because we recognize how asinine most of the rest of reddit is, so we specifically come to this forum instead in order to express and discuss these views that are not welcome there?

if you don't like a post, just downvote it. nobody cares if you don't like reading people's speculation about possible unfolding future events. if "this kind of nonsense" means "you're going to come here less frequently", then.....go ahead and come here less frequently! or better yet, just don't come here at all!

keep your shitty attitude to yourself or take it somewhere else. thanks

Read your post again. You absolutely did not write it from a perspective of speculation. You wrote it as if it is fact. And you know it. Quit trying to downplay this.

I understood it as specualtion. Seemed quite obvious actually

Well you are wrong on that. Simple as that. Haha.

how could something referring to the future tense possibly be "fact"? it hasn't even happened yet. by definition, it cannot be a fact, or be presented as "fact". do you know what a "fact" is?

good lord, get some reading comprehension. anything referring to the future tense is speculation, no matter if it's posted on /r/conspiracy, wikipedia, CNN, or your neighborhood newsletter. today you learned

"This was planned years ago"

Kindly shut it. Thanks.

Yup. Good one. You totally won that.

that's....still speculation. lol, good luck in your future interactions with the english language, i don't think i can help you any more here :(

can you whiny, apologist slaves stop making posts like this?

Wow -- there's an example of a reasoned response.

Take a look at my post history, fella, and tell me if what you read indicates that I am A. whiny, B. an apologist, or C. a slave.

isn't that the entire reason why we're here? because we recognize how asinine most of the rest of reddit is

I don't know about you, but I frequent a lot more subreddits than just this one. If you only use reddit for /r/conspiracy then you're limiting the scope of your knowledge to what happens in one particular subreddit. And I'm here, as I said, to talk about alternative viewpoints and discuss things that are not openly discussed elsewhere. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a command of facts or reality and that we should assert speculation as fact.

if you don't like a post, just downvote it. nobody cares if you don't like reading people's speculation about possible unfolding future events.

I did that too. And it appears that my sentiments are not entirely unpopular -- except of course among the /r/conspiracy purists who cannot take even the slightest criticism about their precious subreddit and have to resort to "love it or leave it" tactics.

Too bad, I thought this was a place for open minded discussion.

your post is the complete antithesis of "open-minded discussion". you specifically told someone to censor themselves because you personally did not approve of what they had to say. in fact, that is the only reason why i responded to you - because this subreddit is a place for open-minded discussion, and you told someone not to do so!

you seem to have the same problem as the other guy who replied to this comment thread. anything referring to future events, or future tense, is by definition "speculation". it cannot be fact. this is not something that is particular to "conspiracy theories". anything that refers to the future tense is always speculation. it's never going to be fact! ever.

the only person "asserting speculation as fact" is you. think about it for a second. someone posted a speculation about future events, and you personally made the decision to treat it as fact, despite the reality that this makes no sense, and is actually impossible. it hasn't happened yet. it can't be a fact. i cannot make this any more clear.

it seems to me like you just don't enjoy or approve of speculation about future events, which are by nature always going to be speculation. which is perfectly okay! but if this is the case, you're going to continue to run into frustration in this subreddit, because much of what is posted here is, in fact (real fact this time!), speculation about possible future events. there's nothing "purist" about this, it's just the way it is. and yeah, you pretty much have to love it or leave it i guess? i don't know what other advice to give you, because it's certainly not going to change.

sorry to be so harsh on you, but there are a lot of people who recently keep making the kind of posts that you made, and honestly the attitude you're espousing is pretty obnoxious to people who are interested in speculation and legitimate open-minded discussion.

tl;dr - if you don't enjoy reading and discussing speculation, don't participate in discussions that are speculation.

your post is the complete antithesis of "open-minded discussion". you specifically told someone to censor themselves because you personally did not approve of what they had to say. in fact, that is the only reason why i responded to you - because this subreddit is a place for open-minded discussion, and you told someone not to do so!

Actually I told him to post evidence to back up his assertions. That's not the same thing as censoring -- not even in the most twisted definition of censorship. But for the standard defintion of it, see your earlier comment for a prime example:

can you whiny, apologist slaves stop making posts like this?

Speculation should be grounded in reality and supported by facts.

sorry to be so harsh on you, but there are a lot of people who recently keep making the kind of posts that you made, and honestly the attitude you're espousing is pretty obnoxious to people who are interested in speculation and legitimate open-minded discussion.

I can assure you -- anyone who is interested in reasoned speculation and legit open minded discussion identifies with my post.

People who engage in speculation simply to engage in speculation, are likely sympathetic to your post.

there is no other reason to engage in speculation other than to engage in speculation. that's how theories about the future are formed and advanced.

"reasoned speculation"? huh? what kind of bizarre newspeak nonsense is this? so there are arbitrary lines between different kinds of speculation? will i not get reported to the Thought Police as long as i stick to Reasoned Speculation then? wouldn't want to be Un-Reasoned, after all. lmfao.

"legit open-minded discussion?" as opposed to "non-legit" open minded discussion, i suppose....? would that be Open-Minded Discussion that is Approved Of By Mainstream Reddit, like you refer to in your original post? honestly what the fuck are you talking about? this is just straight-up newspeak.

you're correct that i told you to censor yourself. you told someone to censor themselves (i'm ignoring your attempt to weasel your way out of this), and as far as i'm concerned, that should be the only thing that's off-limits in an open-minded discussion. or should i refer to it as a Legit Open-Minded Discussion? i guess i'm not sure. i'll have to check with the Ministry Of Information on that one and get back to you.

there is no other reason to engage in speculation other than to engage in speculation. that's how theories about the future are formed and advanced.

No -- that's how people who like to hear themselves speak on issues they fancy themselves as being informed upon make a mockery of the issues, themselves, and "conspiracy theorists" at large (no matter how factual some of us may be) as is visible to anyone who is even remotely familiar with them.

"reasoned speculation"? huh? what kind of bizarre newspeak nonsense is this?

It amazes me that you view all speculation as being uniform. As if you could lend equal credence to researched, documented speculation against ignorant and hyperbolic rhetoric just because they fall under the same category of speculation. It's as simple as determining who sounds more credible between an idiot and an intellect.

"legit open-minded discussion?"

You should know that I just repeated the phrase you used in your previous comment...

sorry to be so harsh on you, but there are a lot of people who recently keep making the kind of posts that you made, and honestly the attitude you're espousing is pretty obnoxious to people who are interested in speculation and legitimate open-minded discussion

Or what you only recognize words when they are employed by someone else?

you're correct that i told you to censor yourself. you told someone to censor themselves (i'm ignoring your attempt to weasel your way out of this),

Oh so you're openly admitting that you're hypocritical? Or what it's justified because you incorrectly perceived me to be requesting someone censor themselves?

And I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. I've clearly established that I wasn't doing anything of the sort and you have no valid response.

All this Orwellian thought police nonsense is a childish overreaction to a very tempered and reasonable request that people not get out of hand and speculate just for the sake of speculation.

If you have some evidence - present it and let's have a discussion. Speculative or otherwise.

if you can't tell already, i don't approve of people telling other people what to do, or what to say, or how to discuss things. you are repeatedly expressing that you wish for discussions here to be controlled according to arbitrary parameters. i do not agree with this in any way, shape, or form.

we are not going to come to a common ground on this issue. there is no way that you are going to convince me that it is desirable, or even "okay", to censor other people or to suggest to them that they censor their discussion.

i cannot tell if you are just naive in believing that censorship and arbitrary control of discussion and discourse is desirable, or if you have some kind of malevolent intent in spreading this notion. either way, we're not going to get anywhere in this discussion. no hard feelings, have a nice day

You've continued to mischaracterize my desire for there to be discussion grounded in reality as censorship.

I do not approve of censorship and I would certainly never tell anyone not to say anything, unlike yourself, a regular authoritarian dictator if it suits your purpose.

I'm saying that if you say things that sound ridiculous prepare to be mocked and at the same time perpetuate the stereotype that all conspiracy theorists are histrionic and silly.

I have to tell you you've done a marvelous job.

It is a place for open ended discussion, however, most people who come here have been incredibly cynical lately and have the same blinders up that the rest of the community have grafted to their heads.

I think too many people around here listen to Alex jones doom and gloom rants. Fuck... I hate that guy. Makes us all look incredibly stupid.

That's sort of his purpose.

who gives a shit?

most of mainstream reddit is full of some of the most stupid people in the world, they are horrible people, and their views are infinitely more stupid than the dumbest things ever posted in /r/conspiracy. no one here is seeking their approval or validation, because they are mostly retarded.

It's not very conducive to having conversation and spreading ideas if you think that everyone else is

mostly retarded.

Even if there are extremely ignorant people -- which I do not dispute -- wouldn't it be better if someone was willing to share information in a non-aggressive non-condescending manner? Don't you think people might be more compelled to listen to someone that hears their point of view, recognizes why it's misguided, and explains to them as such?

Just my opinion, feel free to keep talking to everyone who disagrees with you like they don't deserve to breathe the same air as you. Just voicing that old cliche that you catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

True the mainstream of Reddit is filled with extremely idiotic people but this post right here is also very idiotic. We should be having discussions and debating, not talking about some future collapse scenario.

Malizulu has a point. I come here for some outside perspective but overwhelmingly I find shit like this taking away from the value of this sub.

There is value here and it's not in hearsay.

Thanks.

Instead of wasting my time I generally just skip this sorta thing. I just came in here to see this reaction. There are so many factors, this kind of post is inevitable. In my year and a half in this sub I have noticed, people like us being a bit unconventional, seem to be more forgiving when it comes to spelling, grammar, and overall thought cohesion. I agree that this post has none of these traits. Oh well. I'm not offended by it so I don't up or down vote it.

It's not like this idea of a global collapse after the dollar collapse is a novel idea. I've been hearing this for like three years and many of the same economist that called the 2008 collapse are saying that we are on the cusp of another collapse that will be even more devastating than what happened in 2008. Dr. Jim Willie, Gerald Celente, Jim Rogers, Marc Faber, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts. (Paul Craig Roberts was the assistant secretary of the treasury during the Reagan era btw. I find it ironic that most point to the Reagan era as the start of the growing disproportionate income inequality and now one the architects of the economic policies that are still in place now is against many US policies and even calls the US lawless and the president a puppet.) Whether or not the collapse will happen in the next couple weeks or so is up for debate, but surely we can speculate that it will be coming soon. I mean this is /r/conspiracy

I'm not saying economic collapse is unfeasible.

What I'm saying is that if it does come about, it's unlikely that it will come from these debt ceiling debates. And this shutdown has far more to do with which side can tarnish the reputation of the other party the most, in my opinion.

As Paul Craig Roberts says himself:

Obama has enough power under the various “war on terror” rulings to declare a national emergency and raise the debt ceiling by executive order

http://paulcraigroberts.org/2013/10/02/real-crisis-government-shutdown-paul-craig-roberts/

Edit: Added a word.

I don't think we'll default either. I think the FED will keep printing money until they're blue in the face. It's been 5 years of quantitative easing from the FED. Why would anyone think that would stop?

I think, whatever is going on at those secret TPP talks is the next plan for getting the economy going again. Honestly, if that falls through and nothing comes from it then maybe there will be a collapse.

But there are many interesting factors that reinforce the idea that the US is preparing for a collapse. The expansion of the NSA and DHS. The militarization of the police force. The fact that all of a sudden the US is the leading producer of energy resources, as if we're preparing for the incoming isolation from the rest of world. And now they throw us a nugget by giving everyone health care. Which on it's face sounds like a good thing, but it's marginalizing the upper middle class and middle class healthy people in their mid 20's to mid 30's. It feels like they're trying to redistribute wealth between middle and lower class to give everyone some sort of health care because once the dollar collapses at least we'll have our health.

I'm not saying the dollar isn't going to collapse or the police aren't overly militarized.

I'm saying let's talk about those things from a perspective of logic, command of the facts, and familiarity with history.

Winner.

I disagree, this type of post is what brings people back. It's the hook some people needed. /r/conspiracy is a double edged sword that delivers both alternative views AND alternative realities.

Honestly, if we can be introspective for a bit, this is a perfect example of why most of mainstream reddit thinks of /r/conspiracy[1] as a bunch of kooks.

Also, the Jew bashing.

So right now, you are worried about what the rest of reddit thinks of this place? LOL whatever. go away this is not for you.

No not worried -- just aware.

80% of the rest of reddit is goddamn clown shoes. They don't even wonder how their mothers make enough money to feed and clothe them. I for one don't really care what the rest of reddit thinks. There are excellent subs I have excluded from this slander, so don't get butthurt Redditeers.

So you care because it may affect you?

I care about Muslims, Jews, Christians, Americans, Kenyans, Canadians, Russians... etc. all over the world because I want the best for others.

So you admit you're just being a selfish dickhead and mischaracterizing all Americans under the same umbrella...

to have that kind of thinking just defies logic.

Except for the fact that that DHS officers aren't being paid.

What if they were being paid in a different way, ie family security, food and fresh water, shelter and defense, all the things that a person would want in a situation of chaos?

This is a very good point

Paid in seized bit coins and drugs from Silk Road.

Can I make you a bet on that? I'm willing to bet $20 that the government will be back up and running before the New Year (at the latest).

Just lookin' to make a buck here.

Its a perfect bet: if you are right, that's $20, if you are wrong, your money will be useless either way!

The currency won't be significantly devalued even by a three-month shutdown.

buuut when/if we default on our debt on the 17th, that will devalue it quite a bit.

So this was their plan B after syria failed, i gues no one falls for the old terrorist false flag so just lets skip to dollar collapse then....

In my mind the Syria fiasco could have even been a ploy to distract congress and the people from budget talks leading up to the budget/debt deadlines

And NSA, never forget!

It is rather perfect a scheme to get this country killing itself. Drag out this shutdown, both sides blaming each other. Right now its both sides blaming each other on facebook. Imagine the rabid rage that will sweep through both sides of this forced division when people really start hurting, when families really start going hungry. They dont need a false flag event to take control. They have mixed, brewed and simmered up the perfect event, and it is US. Come the right time, they will crank the burner from a medium-5 to HIGH, and then establish control.

Already people are calling for Republicans to be classified as terrorists and arrested, or the same for Obama.

People are coming apart at the seams.

That is what I am referring to. Its one thing to rant and rave and spew venom in the digital, another in the real. Soon some of these people are gonna start saying shit in public mediums where real hostilities from real people can be catalyzed and it will not take much at all for an angry pile of fight or flight chemicals brewing up between individuals to flashboil into riots. Nothing stronger than that ever-useful blame game when properly manipulated and stoked.

Exactly this. They are fueling the fires of hate and division so when things eventually do fall apart, the public will turn on each other and not on those truly responsible.

Obama on October 17th: "Due to the inability of the congress to resolve their issues, for national security reasons I will have to assume control and raise the debt limit myself..."

Half this country will call him an hero.

Relevant name :)

This!

Thank you for writing this.

My thoughts exactly. How could you not see it? Perfect timing too.

The govt shutdown is just an excuse to bring down the economy. If this persists past friday, then we are looking at a heavy economic downturn.

Middle east and Africa is nuts. Ison on tap for this winter. Fuku is reaaalyy bad (you'll see), and solar shutdown is happening (ice age to come). Plus everything OP said about the DHS, etc.

I see the writing on the wall and I just want to know why the frick I feel so alone with my ideas. Nothing I said was false.

Yet, so many go into the public and share these ideas of materialism and greed. It's not real. Collectively, humans create their reality. Ideas aren't tangible substances until humans decide they are. And, ideas can only be created by humans, no other organism.

So, shit people. Even though this is all over the place, I guess I just want more humans to realize that they are the ones creating the ideas and thus the collective reality.

[deleted]

There are two ways to increase your wealth/power:

1. get more money/power

2. cause everyone else to lose money/power

no governmeent at all... a monarchy

chuckles

[deleted]

1 the middle east has been fucked up for thousands of years. its nothing new, except everyone has weapons that can wipe civilization off of the map now. africa is just starting to develop into "modern civilization". remember what happened in the american old west? much the same, except as stated above, crazies have more in their goody bag to choose from.

2 are you an astrophysicist? who knows what ison is going to do. you can't predict or control something as big as the universe.

3 yes fukushima is fucked, but just today Japan openly asked for international help from all scientists to try to get Fukushima under wraps.

4 ice ages happen over thousands of years. maybe we will be in a "man made" ice age, but the Earth is unpredictable. Even if man does cause a freak ice age occurrence, we still would have 100+ years to wait.

I don't know. It seems as though you act like science has the answer to it all. Science is based on observations and stable physics. It notices statistical significance for its findings. Most of the time science is correct. Not always.

Out of curiosity, when the shutdown ends, will you retract this comment and say you were wrong or will you say it was planned all along?

They will forget they ever said it. Just like all the WW3 posts about Syria which went nowhere..

This is the correct answer. I've now seen posts on here saying the shut down will end soon because of evil government reasons and that it won't end soon because of evil Government reasons. Either way they will say they were right all along. Watch. This is my obvious prediction.

"The big bucks people" sounds like a native tribe that worships large deer. Not so scary...

Obviously English is not your first language. You're cute.

I have a question. What is there to gain by this? Honestly. What is to be gained?

Elite power without people to create it, fund it, and work the jobs that carry it?

I feel there is more to lose for those in charge. Just an opinion.

Yes it will, in a few days. This is not the first shutdown

Can someone explain to me just why in the hell would the government want to collapse the system?

They already have everything they want from the citizens. The rich are getting richer, and more insulated all the time from the plebs, your taxes are going up to pay for their banking schemes (and few is anyone gets punished for it). The people are easily turned on each other (zimmerman for one), and do nothing about their government spying on them and throwing away their rights. Their money is safe in foreign banks and their personal security is protected by the gates keeping them from regular people, and if need be they can easily get out for somewhere else.

Implementing martial law does NOTHING positive for them, they already have what they want from you, forcing the military to shoot it's own citizens will only destabilize what's working for them.

It makes NO SENSE to do that.

Except to further secure their power?

But it doesn't further their power, it massively increases the chances that the people will rise up against them. They aren't stupid, slowly moving their agenda forward makes far more sense than pulling a hugely chaotic incident that threatens them, their security and their money.

So are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that the people in charge want to jail students for raising questions about the government, kill protesters with valid issues against them and risk EVERYTHING they have?

You see, sheep panic sometimes, and when they start seeing their sons and daughters, cousins, and coworkers jailed or killed they aren't going to stand by and do what 'they' want, it's over at that point and the fire will burn their houses as well.

Again, it makes ZERO sense to make a big move when all of the small moves have been so successful.

Would now be a crazy time to say I voted Ron Paul and all I want is peace?

You're on the list.

Hey guys, the government shut down has happened multiple times in the past. Sorry but I'll gladly bet $100 they'll be back soon, what are the odds and how do I get my money?

Why in the fuck would the "elite" destroy what they have right now? They're in the best position they've been in in the history of the planet.

Makes no sense at all.

Because they are greedy.

edit: Am I wrong?

Not likely.

Just want to say a "tank" is very different than the MRAP's that the DHS has bought.

Doesn't matter. They're not a military. They have no reason to possess military or military-style vehicles/equipment. That's what the NG is for.

I like how i try to comment on some of the people who are shooting down the whole conspiracy theory statements, and i cant even reply or comment to their fucked up statements. What the fuck? I guess what is being said is true. I mean, if you cant even comment on someone's bullshit? I guess we have been invaded by big brother. Something bigger is about to happen. Somehow i see a police/miltary state going to fuck us all. Woe, i feel like such a dumbass. Good luck all! Wow, just fucking wow.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not watching.

I, for one, welcome our post apocalyptic New World Order overlords

here comes the new boss, same as the old boss.

[deleted]

We got a pot here.

Sweet! I hope it stays shut down for good.

Why would anyone support backstabbing cronies to get paid for ruining people's lives?

the DHS (government in general) has started to build up tanks and weapons because of probabilities, not guarantees'. they are getting prepared for civil unrest because that is their job. same reason you go get a vaccine, not because you are sick, but to prevent you from getting sick.

What if they were being paid in a different way, ie family security, food and fresh water, shelter and defense, all the things that a person would want in a situation of chaos?

So you admit you're just being a selfish dickhead and mischaracterizing all Americans under the same umbrella...

to have that kind of thinking just defies logic.

I'm not saying the dollar isn't going to collapse or the police aren't overly militarized.

I'm saying let's talk about those things from a perspective of logic, command of the facts, and familiarity with history.

Paid in seized bit coins and drugs from Silk Road.

You've continued to mischaracterize my desire for there to be discussion grounded in reality as censorship.

I do not approve of censorship and I would certainly never tell anyone not to say anything, unlike yourself, a regular authoritarian dictator if it suits your purpose.

I'm saying that if you say things that sound ridiculous prepare to be mocked and at the same time perpetuate the stereotype that all conspiracy theorists are histrionic and silly.

I have to tell you you've done a marvelous job.