Personally, I don't want everything I own taken from me, my family murdered, and to be thrown in prison for the rest of my life.. President Drone Strike ain't foolin' around... I'm not happy about things, but I'm not about to go all in until more people are as outraged as I... Fish increase their odds of survival swimming in a school... Just me...

There are many people outraged but too many of them are just like you. Keep waiting around for something to happen, that will solve our problems.

As I think about it, I think that the marching in the street protests, and the inevitable violence is not constructive. How about we all decide to not vote, not pay our taxes, whatever else?... non violent passive resistance.. I'm not a big fan of bloody revolution...

not vote? didn't matter in the first place

not pay our taxes? the government is already 17 trillion dollars in debt they won't notice or give damn

whatever else? that is revolution my friend. im sorry. the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows. i want it to be but its not.

Well it seems you've got it all figured out! Good for you!

[deleted]

Have a nice day.

[deleted]

Something like "that's the problem, people like you who are outraged but don't do anything."

You're right.

I'm all about speeding things up. look at it this way. Things are a lot less balanced than they seem, all the protests, marches, etc. Police are arresting people for doing what is constitutionally allowed and it is being exposed. Kids are being murdered by trigger happy fucktard cops, that's being exposed Each time something gets exposed it adds more to the already unbalanced scale, one day and one day soon that scale is going to just break. It's coming, just be patent... If you start fuckin shit up too early, you're not gonna stop the collapse and you aren't going to help the collapse... there is just going to be one less of us to fight when it is time.

What have you done?

My physical uprising is homesteading, becoming as self sufficient and community oriented as possible, bartering, driving as little as possible, gardening, saving seeds and creating a seed bank, getting off the grid, and learning as much as I can. I vote with my money. If I/We create a new paradigm the old one cannot exist. I believe the revolution will come in self reliant based action.

Libertarian communes.

Back to the caves!

I'm with you, we the people need to organize and stand together! There's nothing that could stop us if we'd collectively fought against the tyranny, but that's with the force of the American people altogether and that's just something that isn't going to happen. There's no way to bring the people together to stand up, the media doesn't cover the important issues because the media is payed off by the government and truth is rewritten or shoved under the covers. How can you explain to people the truth when they won't listen?

Only 3 percent of citizens in the American revolution fought against the British Empire and we won our independence. At the time the British Empire was the most expansive, rich, powerful, and influential power at the time.

The differences between the American revolution and a revolution today are awesome. In 1776 there weren't automatic weapons that could be carried on a strap or unmanned drones that could wipe out a building in 10 seconds. 3 percent is considered collateral damage.

How about the civil war? Much more analogous.

Fighting a guerrilla war and fighting a civil war are two very different things. Backing the most powerful empire the world has ever seen into a corner is not the same as fending off colonial invaders in algeria or vietnam

A guerilla war would also be an uphill battle in this country, suicidal frankly. The best outcome of a violent uprising would be propaganda by deed, and I commend anyone willing to sacrifice themselves for that, but (unfortunately) things are not bad enough for a committed resistance.

I'm part of this hypocrisy myself, I'm scared to throw away what will probably be a decent future for me, even if it is at the expense of someone oppressed.

Yea when people talk about "armed revolution" you never hear a plan that will actually change anything. Just a lot of talk about how important small arms are to freedom

Being committed to a cause is great but being needlessly violent on some low level bureaucrat isn't going to change the world. And I'm not willing to die just to be cast as a villain to take away more freedoms. Because that is what armed revolt would look like

oh. god.

when we "fought" the british we had the advantage of them being a entire ocean away that took months to cross in order to reinforce troops or supplies or to even deliver instruction from the higher ups like the king.

things are a tad bit different in 2013. i'll let you figure out how.

[deleted]

new york isn't very far away from london.....got it.

It has nothing to do with london dumbass. NEW YORK

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I think the biggest question is "what comes next?" So we revolt against the government, then what? Who's in charge? And of what? What's the plan? Once we have a plan, all of us working together, need to take the appropriate action. That could be nonviolent too, we don't know. It depends on our "big idea" of how it could be better.

You know, with the internet and all this technology for sharing and spreading information you'd think we would be able to organize a new government.

I think most Americans want the same things. Ironically, it's all already in the Constitution and the old school "American Dream."

to be honest, i'd just start fresh with the foundation the founding fathers laid out.

A modernized version of that, yeah. I'd be on board.

A lot of us would.

Thank you. One issue I've always had with the idea of any sort of revolt is what would be done in the aftermath. Let's say it worked! All of the government said fuck it you guys are right and I don't want to do this anymore so its yours - do with it what you want. (Entirely unrealistic but stay with me).

What would we do? What could be put in place to prevent such a takeover through capitalist means again? It seems obvious in my mind that any system that uses a commodity (money) to gain more of the same commodity is going to create extreme inequality on a timeline long enough.

I spend hours talking with people about different theoretical systems as well as realistic systems that could actually take root in our time and would love to have further discussions of such if anyone would care to elaborate.

We would have to implement rules that would hold our constitutional rights above every thing else.

I know these seem like difficult questions with difficult complicated answers.

after many years of thinking about things like this in my mind I have determined that the ONLY correct answer to these questions is....

Who's in charge?

A: no one.

And of what?

A: nothing. countries don't really exist. they are imaginary lines on paper. authority is also imaginary. authority only exists thru violence and/or the threat of violence

What's the plan?

do what we need to do (ie build infrastructure like sewage systems for example) simply because we fucking need it. it really isn't complicated. it just breaks down to being that simple in the absolute end. we need to do this shit to survive and be comfortable.....so let's do that.

what should we do? well how about grow/raise enough food to feed everyone? can we after 200,000 years of evolution/existence as a species fucking manage that one? it's a start....

The people who are willing to die for the country are enlisted on the wrong side of the fence.

I am! I just cant do it alone..

Im with you and so is every three percenter, every oath keeper and many others.

http://threepercenter.org/

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

The situation on the ground right now is that people are actively resisting, there is a quiet war taking place.

I'm sure you've seen stories of veterans being hospitalized for calling 9/11 an inside job. Guns are being quietly confiscated from them one by one if they've ever taken any medication. The NSA cross references your political beliefs with government contracts that support your line of work or business either directly or indirectly.

The transition that is now occurring is that the tyranny is so obvious that anyone who is part of the system is complicit and therefore guilty. Previously, there was a mindset that some government workers were innocent bystanders in the train wreck - compartmentalized, ignorant.

No one can feel that way anymore. Whereas legitimate targets of your bullets like the president are hard to hit, the local government workers are readily attacked. That, coupled with the shifting mindset with regards to their guilt, opens a front for violence that did not exist before. As people get pushed to the brink, they will take down cops that seize their home, or the CPS agent who stole their children, etc.

Intensification of these sorts of tensions happens very rapidly and the government has no real way of backing down. Violence spirals out of control quickly after tipping points are hit. You've probably seen stories about the ongoing purge of generals in the military over the last year or so. We're in the very final stages before it gets real nasty, real fast.

We live in a world of weapons much nastier than nukes. It's the sort of situation where survival rates could easily be less than 1%.

I think that is perhaps the biggest reason that people yearn for a nonviolent resolution of the situation, even if deep down they know that it is unlikely to happen. Does your bugout plan work in the event of bioweapons release? What about a ~10,000 warhead nuclear exchange? Most people can't say yes, so while violence is clearly the only answer, they are still stuck in a bad way even with the regime brought to its knees.

I think it's the organizing part. Many are scared. They know in the back of their minds what can happen to them if they resist. Being disappeared. Pushed into a van on the street, with a hood quickly placed over your head. Those you care about being put at risk. You losing your freedoms, and your life. But the thing is most can't overcome those fears. They don't have the commitment. I don't think many alive in this country truly do have the commitment to freedom. Fear is also what keeps people from seeing truth. Fear that what all of the evidence leads up to is going to be the end of their world as they know it.

I'd like to say organize. But I think the proper word would be Guerilla.

so what do we do how can i sign up what am i resisting and how will they know? I am not trying to be a dick I am right there with you but seriously what can we do?

right here friend

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

http://threepercenter.org/

It's a matter of momentum. In the beginning, anyone who stands up and resists is crushed. Look at Adam Kokesh. All he did was load a gun in DC, and he's been "disappeared" into jail with no bail and no trial for many months. But when the revolution begins to gather momentum, it becomes possible to join with many others in active resistance to tyranny. Beyond a certain point, the numbers of resistors cannot be stopped.

The problem is too many people just shrug off liberties under attack when it's convenient.

For example, the Second Amendment. Lots of people "don't care" about gun owners and won't stand up for their rights because they "don't care about guns."

I'm agnostic (no real religious beliefs that I care to practice). However, I think the freedom to practice your religion, whatever it may be, is important. I will defend that liberty even though I don't practice because of the principle. If everyone followed that we wouldn't be so far gone now.

Solidarity is key. Quit separating yourself from fellow Americans based on party politics, religion, hobbies, and whatever else. We are all very much the same at the core.

Thank you for saying that. I wish we could all just stand for the inalienable rights we already fought for.

Because we have been indoctrinated to look at one another as separated from each other as a people, and are as a result afraid that we will be alone and by ourselves if we try to resist against the tyrants (who, in their police force, etc, are together and organized and unified) with no help from our fellow brothers and sisters.

We as a people need to get organized and unified and together. If we all were together and stood together as one and we knew that we all had each others' backs, then we could and would all stand together as one people - one citizenry - and we would overcome all manipulation and tyranny that's going on.

We would.

Nobody is willing to get shot.

We've all been trained to be 'individuals', hence no powerful groups. The mob rules.

because active resistance would result in our immediate imprisonment at best and torture and death at worst.

is this really that hard to figure out?

Pluralistic ignorance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralistic_ignorance

In a direct physical engagement they have much bigger and more sophisticated weapons that will kill anyone.

You don't win by punching a dragon.

You let it die on its own.

This is a long-play move and will require much thought.

This U.S. Federal Government will fall; maybe not in our lifetimes, but we can set the stage for a better life when it does.

I don't know why you're getting downvoted. It seems a lot of people here want blood in the streets, but the moment it's their loved ones laying dead in a ditch, they will regret that choice.

Playing the slow game is key. Don't acquire any debt. Become self-sufficient. Form new unions. Strike. These ideas are gaining more and more momentum. It will eventually get easier and easier to starve the beast.

This is the first time in history that tyranny has the ability to perpetuate itself. Every other time, tyrannical governments have burned themselves out, because they never had this much control before. There have always been revolutions. However, if that happens today, it will only cement the position of the tyrannical government.

No.

We don't want blood in the streets. I think i can speak for everyone here when i say i want the plan to passively resist to work. But i for one, like many others, are willing to take it to the next step if the government refuses to be a government of the people. Those who are unwilling to take action against the criminals and frauds aren't a friend of the people or freedom. If you don't have anything you're willing to die for then you truly don't have anything to live for. When the time comes direct force might be needed to make a real tangible change in the world.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

The moment any of us really start to take arms up against the federal government, they've just handed over the keys to the kingdom. Look at the Boston Bombing. Look at Sandy Hook. Look at the Aurora shootings. Everyone in this community immediately jumped to the conclusion that they were false flag incidents, designed to give the government justification for more tyrannical measures.

Now imagine if one of those incidents wasn't a false flag. Imagine if one of those were done by a "Patriot". Sure, the targets might be different. The end result would be the same. Would the intention matter? Would you praise that individual?

it gives them an excuse for action? yeah i can see that for sure. but usually what sparks a rebellion is a government that takes violent action against the people. most recent example: Syria

It may come to that point, and I won't deny that violent revolution would be the only logical path, then. However, talk of pre-planning such things will either give the feds authority to start cracking down on thought crimes, or it will ignite a fervor and give someone the idea to fire the first shot because they are impatient with the snails pace of change. Either case means we lose.

By reading the thread on this post it's clear some are unknowingly contributing to the problem by putting down other's ideas and claiming their own to be more valid. To start any sort of glimpse of a revolution we must accept that we're not all going to agree. We're not going to like what some people have to say. But we need to accept the views of those who we disagree with, and work with those ideas. By putting each other down, we're no better than the puppets running this gun show.

But we need to accept the views of those who we disagree with, and work with those ideas.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Nobody need to "accept the views of those who we disagree with" -- that fucking retarded!

Thank you for proving my point!

I will never "accept" a viewpoint that uses violence to tell me what to do. People want all of their self-righteous bullshit enforced on everyone else at the end of a gun... I will never accept that.

[deleted]

Try to force me to do something without crying to your precious state. You can't do it.

Instead, you use the threat of the state to get what you want from others because you are so pathetically indoctrinated into thinking that state violence is an OK way to get your way!

Using the state as your hitman and forcing your idea of "society" on others is the true nature of cowardice.

[deleted]

Using the state as your hitman means you are the enemy. You would never think of forcefully confiscating my property and the fruits of my labor for your own purposes.

I will not ever "accept" any view from anyone for any reason if they wish to do me harm if I do not agree with them.

Here is at least a partial answer to your question.

Physical resistance at this point means making a choice for people without their consent. For example, some terrorists blow up the world trade center (yeah yeah, bare with me), and suddenly we get patriot acts and wars and so on and so forth.

Revolution has to be a consensus activity. The first to act without the consent of everyone else just makes it worse for everyone else. You never want to be the one to fire the first shot.

Passive resistance has been gaining momentum. People are slowly starting to realize how to starve the beast, through self sufficiency, anonymity, not going into debt at a young age, things like that. They took away our freedoms with a thousand tiny cuts. We need to regain them the same way.

Physical resistance invites physical retribution, even to those who choose not to resist. It is unfair to make that choice for others. No one has that right.

EDIT: I'm also surprised at how many of you are approving of this course of action, while you decry agent provocateurs at protests who throw molotovs and smash in store windows. This is the exact same kind of behavior. You must remember how easy it is to stir up a crowd, and turn a protest into an angry mob. Cracking down on a protest makes them look bad. Cracking down on a riot makes them look good. Choose which crowd you wish to be in.

Cracking down on a protest makes them look bad. Cracking down on a riot makes them look good. Choose which crowd you wish to be in.

This is true only when the government enjoys some legitimacy from the population. Once that is no longer true, cracking down protests/riots make them grow (see Turkey, Brazil, Egypt, etc..). Even media demonization techniques fail miserably.

I know what you mean and we want the same end result but being self sufficient won't really bring down the most powerful leaders of the world. Passive resistance is important and is just one of the steps towards winning this war but it has to be progressive and public

I don't care if those leaders are brought down. I care about how much they have control over my daily life. They can have their millions and their mansions. A lion in a cage presents no danger. Just look at how major internet organizations are coming together to set new standards to free the internet from US control and surveillance. You can't look at that and say that nothing is happening.

I loved Red Dawn as much as the next guy, but gearing up for violent revolution at this point is in no one's best interests. Goading people towards that end will just get people shot and put more jackboots in the streets.

People are more afraid now because the type of arms the government has. They are not comparable to the arms we of citizens have. If we both had antique guns or tanks then its game on. We have failed already due to the fact that we let such a gap occur in the first place.

Because we live in a company not a country and like most employees we have just enough going for us that we don't take the risk of acting how we feel.

there are strange anomalies that occur in the state of being alive, spiritual connections that are undefinable, yet clearly exist. A certain "unity" "we are all one" certain conditions may create an atmosphere where these anomalies makes themselves known...For example, individual women living there lives separate from each other will have a menstrual cycle that is based on her own internal clock. Yet if we take several indivisual women and put them in a group atmosphere for a prolonged period of time, the majority will start to cycle at the same time. Other unification phenomenon exist when groups of people are grouped together, sleep patterns of groups can fall into "as one" cycles as well.

So now within the confines of this known, but undefinable "spiritual" reality there exists a certain type that has a strong connection to "revolution".

One who understands the NWO in it's various levels of manipulations understands that by controlling the indiviual one will be able to control the group.

One of the ways that "you" have been systematically brainwashed by society, created by them, is that a strong focus on the "individual" that you are. You are "special" you are "an individual" you are "you". Now when we start interlacing this ideology into the framework of consumerism and monetary "success" and cleverly escalate the "me,me,me" culture using incrementally increasingly abject moral ideologies we start to create an apathetic tribe that only is focused on "me and my own peeps".

Japan would be a perfect example of the success of the NWO's social engineering, they have literally been able to turn entire generations into sexless automotons who "can't be bothered" with "relationships" because they interfere with our "careers"...or in other words, we are so stuck on this hamster wheel that we are more concerned with going through the fire hoops laid before us just to get through life, than to actually bother to try to have one.

All of this and more mixed together creates a massive disturbance in the force that disallows humanity to act "normal" and or naturally. Technology aside, "we" have been steered very far away from what we truly are.

By not having a "spiritual" connection and or having our states of consciousness so artificially manipulated it makes it very difficult to "act naturally" and to "automatically" do the right thing.

The internet is a tool, one that can be used for good, and for bad. As wonderful as it is, as much as it has allowed for "you" to "wake up" ,It is being used against you, it's own popularity is what it is. Again, keeping you in your "you space". By allowing you to communicate to people all over it gives you a sense that there are many who know what it is we do, but it works against you the majority of the time, most far and away, so easy to talk about all the things we should do, such good ideas....But because you are where you are, and I where I am....The unification connection will not be made....I feel that proximity has something to do with it as if our brains must be within a certain distance for the anomaly to occur.

In time you and the others will see, there is only one way out, one way only....The only way that does not need violence to be effective, the "way" will require you to use your mind, both within its computational logical state, as well as an advanced level of spiritual connection with your fellow man. Above anything the "way" will require a faith and the unselfish ability to be able to trust your fellow man as you would trust yourself. Everything is about what your believe and what you think...And for every single person, one of the hardest things to do is to change what you think and what you believe in

Non-cooperation would also work with none of the problems associated. That means, don't buy corporate stuff.

How would this work? We are still using "corporate" (not free) money. If what I just said is true, your idea cannot/will not work.

I forgot to tell: don't work. If everybody does that together, either the corporocracy listen to you, or they break very quickly. A single organized strike of the productive workforce (engineers, walmart workers, car factory employees, but not teachers) with a sizeable part of the population blocking roads would make politicians listen to the people.

Thank you for the clarification. I agree. How do we organize without a leader?

There multiple ways to do that, none of them very easy.

1-) You can organize yourself with your co-workers to solve daily issues with the company you work for (also called trade unions, crushed by corporate America). Advise your friends working at other sectors to do the same, and keep in touch with each other to form a net of individuals. Once something outrageous happens (not necessarily related to your company), organize a general strike. But before even considering strikes, you have to be sure that the brainwashed people you work with no longer see strike as taboo (shouldn't be difficult if you organize yourself). Never strike for pointless reasons.

2-) If you are a respected member among your circle of friends and colleagues, announce you will refuse to work if "x" happens. Say your motives, and if you are respected by your friends and they agree with your opinions, some of them might join you. So the friends of your friends and so on. Once the idea (not the actual act) achieves acceptance toward people and cross a threshold, it is a domino effect that spreads very quickly (if 10% of the population agrees with the general points of your opinion and motives, it already crossed the threshold, probably). You would probably have to use social media to achieve large proportions.

Anyway, not even the media can hold it once it gains traction. Look at Turkey and Brazil, where media tried to 1- demonize the protesters, 2- ignore it. It not only failed completely, but also lost a lot of legitimacy and respect.

The thing is that even though there is an initial person or group of people starting it, they have absolutely no control of what happens after, nor represent the rest of the people joining them.

[deleted]

Fighting the ocean is easy, you just need a boat.

"We're gonna need a bigger boat!"

I think it is very simply the fact that their personal freedom/ discomfort is not yet bad enough to risk their own life.

Sometimes someone fights out against authority and they start a movement and the spectators back him up and offer protection from the consequences. Sadly much of time someone will stand up and the rest of us will pull out our smartphones and start recording. They'll never have enough riot police if everyone just remembered where their testicles were.

I don't think we're through with step 2 yet. The large minority are starting to wake up but until we have a decent majority, violent revolution will destroy the cause and make things worse.

Because a mass of armed citizens fighting against militarily armed foreign mercenaries isn't going to end well for the citizens.

foreign mercenaries

Your government can't afford to pay mercenaries. Mercenaries are also a poor choice to use for actions within the boundaries of your own territory.

"I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed. Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe..."

education is the answer, not violence. the state has the monopoly on violence - and all the big toys.

Because nobody wants to hear LOUD pounding on their front door@3:00 a.m. and see lazer dots on their chest. That's why.

Im not resisting anything. I am watching history unfold.

[deleted]

We would be going against the world's strongest government. youre right. just like the last time the American people revolted. only 3% of citizens revolted against the British. Even if 1% did, that would still be a million people.

[deleted]

Changed? yes, but lets compare.

1700's

We can't rebel against our government. They're the most powerful nation on the earth with more soldiers than you can imagine, cannons with quicklime chemicals and explosives, an unrivaled navy, supply lines, organization, better training, better equipment, cavalry, etc.

2000's

We can't rebel against our government they're the most powerful nation on earth with more soldiers than you can imagine, tanks and mortars with white phosphorus and explosives, an unrivaled navy, supply lines, organization, better training, better equipment, an air force, etc.

Does this sound familiar?

I feel as if my daily life is unaffected by the government so why should I try to change it

Physical uprising is not a good idea. You don't ever want to do that. The only kind of physical resistance that is acceptable is the kind where you personally don't physically or materially support something you find morally objectionable - this is NOT "uprising" or being violent - this is taking your own initiative to not contribute to the continuance of systems you find insane or lending them credibility.

Even physically "fighting back" would lend credibility to something that really is NOT credible. It's a group of very wealthy people and those who hold major shares in multinational corporations and the financial sector constantly maneuvering the right kind of puppets into "official"/"public" social positions to enforce and implement / direct policy given to them from a higher level of the organization.

In reality we will always(for the FORESEEABLE FUTURE) need a government of some kind, it will ALWAYS be open to this kind of corruption, the only thing that combats it is an informed/intelligent/involved general population, or at least a moral intelligentsia. "Resisting the government" only gives the corrupt interests the perfect excuse to use the military(just random guys and girls you could have grown up with) to crush you, and gives them a perfect justification for things even worse than the powers in "the patriot act"(and if that one isn't the definition of new-speak/propaganda, I don't know what is).

Physically "uprising" is a HORRIBLE IDEA, AND WILL NEVER ACCOMPLISH *ANYTHING YOU WANT IT TO. Real life isn't "The Alex Jones Show". You can fight to protect your family or self if you are under immediate threat to your person, otherwise don't even think about it or you will be destroyed and you will only harm whatever noble cause you thought you were fighting for. This is why.

What everyone needs to realize is that the organization of the people can topple anything from tyranny to freedom. So far the elite leaders of the world have manipulated our governments to topple our freedoms.

THE GOVERNMENT IS an "organization of the people", do you not GET that? It can never be anything BUT a representation of the realities present in the majority of the population and their minds - if they are stupid, distracted, apathetic, or self-centered/egotistical/greedy - the government they allow to reign WILL be a representation of that even though it will operate under the guise of patriotic/good propaganda, as all governments do regardless of their true actions. "The government" is nothing BUT "the people", you and your masses ARE represented by the current government, just not in the way that your particular ideals dictate is "right", but it's not your ideals that are represented or reflected by the government that holds power over a regional land mass of people, it is a reflection of the realities present in the personality of the people of that country.

Think of a country like a small room, or like an auditorium full of people. These people will eventually arrange a way to govern themselves/their conduct/their "nation"(physical region they permanently exist in)/manage their resources and affairs - if the majority(the personality) of the people are self-serving, self-centered pieces of shit and scumbags who are simply feigning goodness to try and "get things" for themselves from others, and they are horrible people in reality, the "government" that will be in power "over them"(BUT THE GOVERNMENT CAN BE NOTHING BUT A REFLECTION OF THE PEOPLE IT GOVERNS AS IT IS COMPRISED OF THEM AND FORMED BY THEM OR ALLOWED TO GOVERN BY THEIR CONSENT AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEIR COOPERATION) will be horrible the same ways that the majority of those people are themselves. The few "good people"/moral/intelligent people in this "bad apple"-filled room will be ignored(to everyone's detriment, not just the detriment of the few good ones being ignored) - the idiot masses of the room will treat them like they are somehow weak or dumb and irrelevant because they aren't seeking power or seeking to amass resources for themselves and for not being willing to kill/rob/steal to do it, simply for the fulfillment of their egos and person desires. It's a horrible situation for everyone in general except the few who claw and scrape or manipulate their way to the top of the pile and have lots of everything and lots of power.

IF, on the other hand, the auditorium or room is full of GOOD PEOPLE who are genuinely moral/caring/having standards/an awareness of higher principles and the value of life and other people rather than just trying to serve themselves(as they recognize that serving others and being good to and for others IS part of "serving themselves", as they are a part of the all and they take responsibility for themselves/their own lives/their effect on the overall environment that they are a part of) - they will typically have a VERY GOOD government. Even if there are a few bad apples or terribly corrupt/sick people who TRY to get to power over the room, the simple lack of cooperation will completely stagnate any effort to corrupt the rest of the people or be "tyrannical" over them - as no one would consent or cooperate with those they can see are bad/evil/childish/petty/self-serving - they would have compassion for those people and would try to teach them but would never allow them to have power over or input into the affairs of the governance of the whole room and it's resources/direction. Government is a reflection of the people 'it' governs - nothing more. The individual names and situations don't matter, although I guess you could prosecute for some things "they" do and have done recently, overall the individual names/dates/people of the criminals are irrelevant to the bigger picture that will effect everyone. Vengeance/"justice" on individuals won't do anything for anyone, as another criminal will replace them as soon as it is taken or carried out.

The only thing violence or uprising is good for is getting yourself smashed/killed - exactly what you do will be done to you only harder by an order of magnitude. You have to help the human race and your community EVOLVE, not revolve around different "governments"/coups/REVOlutions rather than evolution. Revolutions are like the Earth's revolutions around the Sun - you go around and around, things seem to change and come and go, and simply end up back in the same place.

I don't think you realize that a revolution is needed because the people in government don't represent the PEOPLE anymore.

I think you don't think in enough of a broad scale to get what I just said. Your government cannot do anything except be a representation of you. Your government is not aliens from another planet. Your government is comprised of human beings picked out of particular pockets of your own communities and placed on a stage that you all(your communities/regional population) prop up and support with your own consent and cooperation. Who is in the government? Aliens? Chinese people? No. Who forms your government? Who are the big bad guys at the top you dream of criminally prosecuting in your sleep?

You're thinking in terms of ideals, I'm thinking in terms of WHAT IS ACTUALLY REALITY. IDEALISTICALLY, yes, your government "doesn't represent the people's interests", however what it does represent is HOW THE FUCKING PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY ACTUALLY ARE, or at least a big enough majority of them being just like your government(shitty/self-centered/self-serving/corrupt/uncaring/greedy/violent/oppressive - instead of thinking in terms of greedy bankers perhaps you should think of these in terms of normal people like yourself and take some responsibility for your life and environment, like the oppressive Mormon father or someone from any other major faith in your country that oppresses his children, expects everyone to serve him, uses violence or fear to enforce his will in his household, is out for no one but himself, and just wants to "get his" while being egotistical enough to think he can try to maintain some kind of SOCIAL IMAGE of himself as a "good, loving, god-fearing man" -- this is a perfect individual-level analogy for your government, and what your government is a perfect representation or reflection of AND IN THIS WAY, YOUR GOVERNMENT DOES INDEED REPRESENT "THE PEOPLE". The government of a people can be no other way. It will always reflect the ACTUAL TRUTH of the personality of the people. If a large enough percentage of people were good, the criminal conspiracies and corruption could not thrive regardless of the attempted bribery and intimidation used.

You can use anyone from any walk of life, it does not have to be religious, could be a small business owner behaving mainly in the same manner, or an army family, or WHATEVER, it doesn't matter the details, the point is that in REALITY(not your personal ideals and wishes) your government IS, in FACT, a reflection of you and your people. It CAN BE nothing else. If a majority of you were good/caring/loving/peaceful/aware/intelligent - you would not have a government like the one that you have now, because a majority would stop participating/consenting/cooperating to corrupt and abusive or tyrannical rules. But you don't, so you don't.

BEING FUCKING STUPID AND MORE VIOLENT THAN YOU ALREADY ARE WILL NOT HELP ANYONE OR MAKE ANYTHING GOOD HAPPEN FOR YOU. IT WILL ONLY BEAR THE TRUTH OF MY WORDS ABOVE. Trying to change a reflection in the mirror by smacking at the mirror with a hammer won't do anything except cut you with shards of glass. You have to change the way that people THINK AND BEHAVE, and change the overall personality of your communities and culture - not try to smash the individual or collective reflection of "the people" in "public offices" with a hammer because they will be replaced with new reflections by the end of the week.

Do you get what I'm saying now? Yes, your government ACTUALLY DOES represent "the people", "the people" are just too stupid, violent, small-minded, and irresponsible to grasp the bigger picture of what this means. YOUR WISHES are not you, every horrible murderer/felon in prison wishes he was a nice guy living a good life on the outside doing good things for everyone and getting good things for himself - HIS WISHES DO NOT REPRESENT WHO HE REALLY IS OR HIS TRUE PERSONALITY, JUST AS THE "WISHES" OF "THE PEOPLE" DO NOT REPRESENT THE TRUTH OF "THE PEOPLE"(Americans at large and people in general at this time in our history). The government of a people is largely representative of the reality of those people's internal lives - not their wishes or ideals - but who and what they really are as a majority. If that is "violent, stupid, oppressive, irrational", then their government will be those things as well, because what else could it be? Get it now?

You're wrong in so many ways.

I'm actually not wrong, it's just tough for you all to take responsibility for your own lives and you're desperately wanting like children to be able to think of it all in simple terms in which you bear no responsibility for anything other than "shud u has a revolooshun".

You're probably not even capable of reading, understanding, and cogently/intelligently responding to anything I said in either of those posts, so I'm going to go ahead and ignore you. Go watch some Alex Jones Show.

You government doesn't represent your wishes or your ideals - it represents you, and who you really are as a majority. If your wishes and who you all really "are" aligned, you would have a good government that reflects your "wishes", but seeing as you're nearly all self-serving/violent/childish scum, you get that kind of government, because that's how it works.

Saying all governments reflect the people within the country is ignorant and oversimplified. Take your fake knowledge somewhere else.

MY fake knowledge, LOL.

Saying all governments reflect the people within the country is ignorant and oversimplified.

Who do you think makes/conforms to/comprises/co-operates with/enforces for the government of a country/a people? FUCKING ALIENS? YOU are the one operating on "fake knowledge"/ignorance/oversimplification. ANYONE who thinks violent revolution is going to help them is the definition of "oversimplification" and ignorance - that's you.

Seriously, you need to answer this question here and then rethink your perception - or admit you're illogical/irrelevant/a shill/not interested in actual conversation or discourse and you're just pushing your emotions around on the internet or trying to run a sting-operation on 'homegrown terrorists/self-radicalizing on the internet'. I'm at a point in my perception of you where I expect your answer to be something absurdly stupid/simple/IRRELEVANT like "Israel does all those things! That's who! Israel!" - because my whole point is that YOU are oversimplifying everything to an absurd degree, missing the big picture, missing the point, and that you will never cause meaningful/relevant or GOOD social change with violent uprising. This is not the 1700s, there will be no redcoats shipped over in sailboats from England to deal with farmers waving muskets around. If you want to glorify violence go somewhere else, you piece of shit potential-FBI-shill. This is not a forum for radicalization and your oversimplified and ignorant ideas are not going to help anyone OR contribute to relevant discussion(unless someone like me comes in and tries to learn you something). Get the fuck out of here.

You're taking something which has a complexity in actuality equivalent to something like: "153286378562178657816598126578216578126578126578126578x274612746521751625467125" and attempting to think of it in terms of 1s and 0s, or "1vs1", or to stick with the analogy - just another simple number like "12". No one is responsible for the government that you people get except YOU and your own national/cultural personal identity and personality because the only way government works on the scale of continents is with consent and cooperation of the "governed". This really is not Nazi Germany - there are no stormtroopers on every street corner waiting to force you to go to work or support the Fuhrer. Change your cultural personality/behavior/thinking or you won't ever change ANYTHING regardless of how many people get lynched/imprisoned/prosecuted. You make it, you work for it, you cooperate with it, you allow it to continue by your consent and legal/financial/physical co-operation. THIS IS WHY I am saying violent uprising will solve nothing(because it won't), is not a good idea, and this is the correct answer to your question(the one you posed in your OP and the one this thread is about). You obviously don't LIKE the answer because you are trying to oversimplify everything and talking about rebelling as if you are a bored Alex Jones listener and this is the 17th century. You need to rethink your position or go away, because like I said, /r/conspiracy and reddit.com is not a forum for radicalizing people. Go away.

You can't even stop people from fighting wars based on admitted lies and fabrications.. even when it is KNOWN AND ADMITTED that those wars ARE based on lies and fabrications. LOL - and you think you're going to somehow change the whole face of your country with guns? Dude, you are being retarded. Stop thinking "uprising" is going to fix anything. It's not, and it is nowhere near that simple - so you aren't even having a relevant discussion or contributing anything here by talking about how people should/shouldn't be willing to "fight" or about uprising. It's just a silly waste of time. Violence WILL NOT change any of the things or help any of the things you want to change or help.

You personally not being intelligent enough to grasp all of this does not make it less true or "fake knowledge" - you're being a simpleton. People behaving like they ARE retarded IS WHY your country is the way that it is, and you're just doing more of that here.. I'm not.

It should NOT take violence to improve our government. Voting and communications should be effective in time, but they do take time.

Sir you must wake up, the game is rigged. We won't be winning any of our rights back through using the system that has continually fucked us

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If you actually did go out and march on your city halls and capitol hill and demanded change you might actually make a difference.

If you actually did go out and march on your city halls and capitol hill and demanded change you might actually make a difference.

I'm actually not wrong, it's just tough for you all to take responsibility for your own lives and you're desperately wanting like children to be able to think of it all in simple terms in which you bear no responsibility for anything other than "shud u has a revolooshun".

You're probably not even capable of reading, understanding, and cogently/intelligently responding to anything I said in either of those posts, so I'm going to go ahead and ignore you. Go watch some Alex Jones Show.

You government doesn't represent your wishes or your ideals - it represents you, and who you really are as a majority. If your wishes and who you all really "are" aligned, you would have a good government that reflects your "wishes", but seeing as you're nearly all self-serving/violent/childish scum, you get that kind of government, because that's how it works.