I just noticed the no down vote button. It's really a brilliant idea on the part of the Mods.
I think it really goes to show that this sub is being targeted by something for some reason. I like to believe that reason is because we are informing, we are staying on topic and we are spreading a message of peace and change.
We don't want civil war, we don't want violence. We just want our freedoms back, and we want the people who are the driving force of corruption, destruction, and death to be held accountable.
Yeah all the posts I've taken a look at have had several more downvotes than they deserve, even if the downvote button is missing, bots will not be affected, only manned shills.
It doesn't really, vote fuzzing kicks in and ambiguites the total to make it look like it's around 70%. It seems to happen after the post hits 50 to 60 upvotes.
The admins have said that basically the vote count you see is mostly made up.
Isnt it fair to say that some people may not like the idea of a one-sided popularity contest? I see the reason to curb brigades, but a move like this just gives the impression that the sub is not very democratic.
There is no way to disable downvoting, unless you are a site admin. What subreddit mods do is remove the buttons using css. Bots don't care about css. And I guess most mobile apps would not care either.
Yep, I'm using it right now and I can upvote and downvote as much as I please. The only thing this will do is prevent people who don't have a clue about how reddit works from downvoting. If we are being gamed then we will still be gamed the same. Unfortunately.
It wasn't, but it appears that there are so many ways that a human could down-vote it's totally unreliable. Ignore me! (Or if you like, downvote my previous comment!)
I'm not downvoting you, but I don't think you understand what it actually means.
"vote-manipulation bots"; they read from reddit the absolute minimum they need to either downvote or upvote - this skips all kind of pictures, css (style-sheets; the thing that makes the up/down arrows appear where they do, act like they do (turn different colors) with the help of some javascript I guess (I'm not very good with modern webdev)). Either way the bots do not even read the .css-files - they do not care where the buttons are; they only care how they can use the API (Application programming interface) that the Reddit "engine" exposes so that we can use applications like "Reddit is fun" and "Alien Blue" which I'm sure uses Reddit APIs rather than translating http requests.
Either way if that's too technical you shouldn't be commenting about this stuff in the first place. Point again is that it's not possible to do anything against vote-gaming or groups of organized people downvoting - in this subreddit a group of 30 people with access to different IPs of course - could own, counting low; about 5 accounts each. That is already 150 up or downs. Reddit does it's secret sauce on the actual display of up/downs after an item gets a certain amount of attention - so its tricky to know how much influence in terms of hard numbers something like 30 people with 5 accounts each have. However it doesn't stretch the imagination too much to know that something like this is certainly possible. And we're talking about 30 people, 150 ups or downs power - certainly sounds like a lot, definitely enough to sway opinion in a small subreddit like /r/conspiracy/
Ramblings - I'm a bit on the drink tonight so this might seem incoherent but I'm just trying to be objective here - we should all try to be objective but at the same time open-minded. Discard people who are SURE without evidence because thats a sure sign we might be dealing with disinfo, misinfo, or just plain cooks.
On threads. It may be because I don't use 'subreddit styles' in my preferences. At least that was what another person suggested. I haven't tried to change it to check.
Mods, please listen to this. You're only hiding the downvote button from regular voting users. Bots dont need to see downvote arrows, so this action is really impeding what power the community has to self-govern. Applause for trying something new, but this tactic is only going to hurt normal users.
This is a great idea, but I think that they'll probably just resort to submitted junk articles and mass upvoting them to drown out legitimate threads. I fully expect to see posts like "Reptilian feminists are trying to turn our children gay!" making the front page due to these spammers.
I'm relatively new here, but I never downvote - links or comments. If I appreciate a comment, I'll upvote. If not, I move on - or - if I have a strong opinion or evidence that contradicts a comment, I reply - with reputable cites, where possible.
Also, I set my "don't show me sites with a score less than" and "don't show me comments with a score less than" to ZERO, because I want to see ALL comments and threads. I'll decide whether they're worthy of reading, thank you.
To me, downvoting is often little more than a lowbrow form of censorship. It's a great tool for those who can't muster a cogent reply.
If you don't agree with someone, speak your piece. By downvoting, all you are essentially doing is trying to make those you disagree with SHUT THE FUCK UP - by making their offerings invisible to other Redditors.
Are there people out there who are just trying to stir the pot for fun or profit?
I very much agree with you, I will add that when I find someone who posts good links and makes good comments, I tend to remember those redditors and will stop to see what they say or have posted. so censorship would seem to keep me from finding good sources.
fear makes one attack or run from that which he cannot understand or control (even if it is truth), while a fearless intellect filters out with tenacity that which stops understanding (to find the truth).
so kudos to the mods here, there seems to be mods in other subreddits that could use you as an example of free exchange of ideas.
Been on my phone, up-voting all day long... Nice job mods!
I'm not always sharp / astute on all topics but this sub gives me a place to read and decide for myself. Even when I don't agree, I resist any down vote unless I've engaged or been challenged. Been schooled in this sub from time to time but have been treated decently.
I came here because there's more news here than on r/news, r/politics.
Or...everyone can offer your votes, yay and nay, in lucid, well thought-out comments. But that requires more than a huffy point/click, so I understand how it can be socially daunting to some.
up and downvoting is a waste and is why reddit is fundamentally flawed. It creates a passive-aggressive atmosphere at best and as we can see by main stream subreddits like /r/politics, are easily compromised and used as a way to restrict the flow of information
There is a work-around but the down voter has to jump a couple of hoops to bother with it. So that will just show "how much" some people want a story to go away.
On /r/StormComing for instance, generally the only news that 'some people' bother to d/v are on Fukushima. So that's pretty informative in itself.
76 comments
27 [deleted] 2013-10-31
I just noticed the no down vote button. It's really a brilliant idea on the part of the Mods.
I think it really goes to show that this sub is being targeted by something for some reason. I like to believe that reason is because we are informing, we are staying on topic and we are spreading a message of peace and change.
We don't want civil war, we don't want violence. We just want our freedoms back, and we want the people who are the driving force of corruption, destruction, and death to be held accountable.
23 [deleted] 2013-10-31
[deleted]
10 SomeNoveltyAccount 2013-10-31
Bots don't load subreddit styles, and scripts look at the code itself so the CSS has no effect on either of them.
It will help with probably help with brigading situations.
1 Demgar 2013-10-31
This post has 120 downvotes for example.
2 AtlasAnimated 2013-10-31
Yeah all the posts I've taken a look at have had several more downvotes than they deserve, even if the downvote button is missing, bots will not be affected, only manned shills.
4 WasteTaste 2013-10-31
Not everyone negative is a shill.
2 SomeNoveltyAccount 2013-10-31
It doesn't really, vote fuzzing kicks in and ambiguites the total to make it look like it's around 70%. It seems to happen after the post hits 50 to 60 upvotes.
The admins have said that basically the vote count you see is mostly made up.
0 [deleted] 2013-10-31
Isnt it fair to say that some people may not like the idea of a one-sided popularity contest? I see the reason to curb brigades, but a move like this just gives the impression that the sub is not very democratic.
0 adrixshadow 2013-10-31
Is there a more permanent solution?
2 Your-Wrong 2013-10-31
Race war, now!
3 blacksunalchemy 2013-10-31
You realize that people can still downvote by pressing "z" right?
2 ugdr6424 2013-10-31
This isn't the first time they've done this.
-3 indocilis 2013-10-31
who is they?
2 Zebraton 2013-10-31
The people doing it.
0 ugdr6424 2013-10-31
both the bots/brigaders and the mods removing the downvote arrow
-12 [deleted] 2013-10-31
I think it may be worse than that though. Downvotes are still happening. Why? How?
19 Nezoula 2013-10-31
If you are a mobile user, you can still downvote; like me!
12 Detached09 2013-10-31
Also you can simply uncheck "use subreddit style" and it'll let you downvote.
1 Belly187 2013-10-31
Fuck it, have an upvote!
0 Sandy-106 2013-10-31
Anyone with RES can downvote with hotkeys, or just disable the CSS in reddit options.
15 gerryn 2013-10-31
There is no way to disable downvoting, unless you are a site admin. What subreddit mods do is remove the buttons using css. Bots don't care about css. And I guess most mobile apps would not care either.
3 [deleted] 2013-10-31
Reddit is fun for android ignores css.
1 gerryn 2013-10-31
Yep, I'm using it right now and I can upvote and downvote as much as I please. The only thing this will do is prevent people who don't have a clue about how reddit works from downvoting. If we are being gamed then we will still be gamed the same. Unfortunately.
-10 Izwe 2013-10-31
Quite right, therefore anyone who's downvoting a thread is obviously a bot and can be banned.
... although the mobile apps thing would muddy things. Hmmmm ...
1 nerdophile2 2013-10-31
Not sure if sarcasm...
-6 Izwe 2013-10-31
It wasn't, but it appears that there are so many ways that a human could down-vote it's totally unreliable. Ignore me! (Or if you like, downvote my previous comment!)
0 clarabarton 2013-10-31
If I want to down-vote a link I can click on your own personal post history and down-vote it from there as opposed to downvoting it on the sub's page.
0 gerryn 2013-10-31
I'm not downvoting you, but I don't think you understand what it actually means.
"vote-manipulation bots"; they read from reddit the absolute minimum they need to either downvote or upvote - this skips all kind of pictures, css (style-sheets; the thing that makes the up/down arrows appear where they do, act like they do (turn different colors) with the help of some javascript I guess (I'm not very good with modern webdev)). Either way the bots do not even read the .css-files - they do not care where the buttons are; they only care how they can use the API (Application programming interface) that the Reddit "engine" exposes so that we can use applications like "Reddit is fun" and "Alien Blue" which I'm sure uses Reddit APIs rather than translating http requests.
Either way if that's too technical you shouldn't be commenting about this stuff in the first place. Point again is that it's not possible to do anything against vote-gaming or groups of organized people downvoting - in this subreddit a group of 30 people with access to different IPs of course - could own, counting low; about 5 accounts each. That is already 150 up or downs. Reddit does it's secret sauce on the actual display of up/downs after an item gets a certain amount of attention - so its tricky to know how much influence in terms of hard numbers something like 30 people with 5 accounts each have. However it doesn't stretch the imagination too much to know that something like this is certainly possible. And we're talking about 30 people, 150 ups or downs power - certainly sounds like a lot, definitely enough to sway opinion in a small subreddit like /r/conspiracy/
Ramblings - I'm a bit on the drink tonight so this might seem incoherent but I'm just trying to be objective here - we should all try to be objective but at the same time open-minded. Discard people who are SURE without evidence because thats a sure sign we might be dealing with disinfo, misinfo, or just plain cooks.
Cheers, G
14 SovereignMan 2013-10-31
I still have downvote arrows.
-6 [deleted] 2013-10-31
On comments. Not threads tho right?
9 SovereignMan 2013-10-31
On threads. It may be because I don't use 'subreddit styles' in my preferences. At least that was what another person suggested. I haven't tried to change it to check.
2 williewonka03 2013-10-31
its called res. very nice addition to reddit.
0 Crook3d 2013-10-31
I have them on both. Maybe an RES thing?
edit: choosing to "use subreddit style" disabled them.
-1 [deleted] 2013-10-31
http://i.imgur.com/mi64ExE.jpg
Sorry :/ Nice try though
Still upvoted tho! http://i.imgur.com/MKPER1Q.jpg
13 [deleted] 2013-10-31
We now have holistic dentistry spam second to top on the board. I think we played right into their hands.
12 finches 2013-10-31
Terrible idea, now junk is submitted with massive up-voting, whilst bots can still down vote.
2 Techno_Shaman 2013-10-31
Mods, please listen to this. You're only hiding the downvote button from regular voting users. Bots dont need to see downvote arrows, so this action is really impeding what power the community has to self-govern. Applause for trying something new, but this tactic is only going to hurt normal users.
10 Aikawa_Kizuna 2013-10-31
This is a great idea, but I think that they'll probably just resort to submitted junk articles and mass upvoting them to drown out legitimate threads. I fully expect to see posts like "Reptilian feminists are trying to turn our children gay!" making the front page due to these spammers.
7 KhalifaKid 2013-10-31
so now we will get spammed, and random stupid or misinforming articles will be upvoted by the bots
0 Magnora 2013-10-31
They took control of /r/politics and /r/videos and many others. I knew this subreddit wouldnt last forever. :( it's just a matter of time
-1 Sarah_Connor 2013-10-31
But we can remove them easily. Just point them out.
5 Amos_Quito 2013-10-31
I am glad to see this.
I'm relatively new here, but I never downvote - links or comments. If I appreciate a comment, I'll upvote. If not, I move on - or - if I have a strong opinion or evidence that contradicts a comment, I reply - with reputable cites, where possible.
Also, I set my "don't show me sites with a score less than" and "don't show me comments with a score less than" to ZERO, because I want to see ALL comments and threads. I'll decide whether they're worthy of reading, thank you.
To me, downvoting is often little more than a lowbrow form of censorship. It's a great tool for those who can't muster a cogent reply.
If you don't agree with someone, speak your piece. By downvoting, all you are essentially doing is trying to make those you disagree with SHUT THE FUCK UP - by making their offerings invisible to other Redditors.
Are there people out there who are just trying to stir the pot for fun or profit?
Sure, but it's a price I'm willing to pay.
We learn through dialogue.
4 [deleted] 2013-10-31
[deleted]
3 Amos_Quito 2013-10-31
Understood. Fire with fire. Natural.
My point is that dialogue is productive. Censorship is counterproductive.
0 MaxActivist 2013-10-31
I very much agree with you, I will add that when I find someone who posts good links and makes good comments, I tend to remember those redditors and will stop to see what they say or have posted. so censorship would seem to keep me from finding good sources.
fear makes one attack or run from that which he cannot understand or control (even if it is truth), while a fearless intellect filters out with tenacity that which stops understanding (to find the truth).
so kudos to the mods here, there seems to be mods in other subreddits that could use you as an example of free exchange of ideas.
0 [deleted] 2013-10-31
[deleted]
0 Amos_Quito 2013-10-31
Real world? When backfires are set to deprive larger fires of fuel, limiting or slowing their advance. Risky business.
In the above sense, it refers to reciprocal retaliation using like tactics. Think of gunfire and it all makes sense.
Tit for tat... Eye for an eye... Taste of his own medicine...
It's a cacophony of clichés.
0 Balthanos 2013-10-31
I use the sidebar as my downvote rule. Racism, spam, direct inflammatory attacks, you know. The usual.
5 ifactor 2013-10-31
If they are bots downvoting the threads hiding the button with css wouldn't prevent them...
4 ridestraight 2013-10-31
Been on my phone, up-voting all day long... Nice job mods!
I'm not always sharp / astute on all topics but this sub gives me a place to read and decide for myself. Even when I don't agree, I resist any down vote unless I've engaged or been challenged. Been schooled in this sub from time to time but have been treated decently.
I came here because there's more news here than on r/news, r/politics.
-2 LinkFixerBotSnr 2013-10-31
/r/politics /r/news
This is an automated bot. For reporting problems, contact /u/WinneonSword.
4 joseph177 2013-10-31
This just hides the button for anyone using subreddit styles. It has no effect on bots unfortunately.
3 sharts 2013-10-31
you can still downvote using the hotkey z the downvote button just got removed is all.
3 ImaSarcasticAsshole 2013-10-31
Ah.... A conspiracy on r/conspiracy. How refreshing.....
2 IhateourLives 2013-10-31
It is not a good idea! the top storys will just keep getting all the upvotes. Just look now the top thing is a old ass meme with 2000+ votes.
-1 [deleted] 2013-10-31
No they gradually move down the front page. It's not like downvoting makes it move down.
2 Brostradamus_ 2013-10-31
Hilarious, just hilarious. I can't even tell who is trolling who here anymore.
2 Nick246 2013-10-31
No down votes? SO now this subreddit can be just like the Special Olympics. You are all winners.
2 [deleted] 2013-10-31
Or...everyone can offer your votes, yay and nay, in lucid, well thought-out comments. But that requires more than a huffy point/click, so I understand how it can be socially daunting to some.
Fuck me and carry on. Jesus.
At any rate, good on this sub. For now.
1 privatejoker 2013-10-31
up and downvoting is a waste and is why reddit is fundamentally flawed. It creates a passive-aggressive atmosphere at best and as we can see by main stream subreddits like /r/politics, are easily compromised and used as a way to restrict the flow of information
1 privatejoker 2013-10-31
Pretty good example of this going on right now in the Al Jazera AMA
2 TheKolbrin 2013-10-31
There is a work-around but the down voter has to jump a couple of hoops to bother with it. So that will just show "how much" some people want a story to go away.
On /r/StormComing for instance, generally the only news that 'some people' bother to d/v are on Fukushima. So that's pretty informative in itself.
1 mossking 2013-10-31
Free karma for everyone
1 eyesareitchy 2013-10-31
Because "bots" have to use the mouse to click the downvote button amirite?
Also because you can't turn off subreddit style and carry on downvoting.
Great move.
1 [deleted] 2013-10-31
Holy crap...just noticed this.
Great job mods!
1 TheWiredWorld 2013-10-31
I have been saying this for atleast a year. I also said we should get rid of upvotes as well, but maybe that's too far.
1 facereplacer 2013-10-31
Long needed. Much appreciated. Hopefully they don't unleash upvote bots that target uninteresting, meaningless submissions.
1 Slipgrid 2013-10-31
That's not how it works. I downvoted this post.
1 gizadog 2013-10-31
Perfect. No sad puppies in this sub!
1 binjinpurj 2013-10-31
They're back.
yay!0 cavenator 2013-10-31
Just like /r/canada!
0 tripsick 2013-10-31
thats cool as long as i can downvote all the accounts i have marked as down vote worthy..
0 Rockran 2013-10-31
You downvote regardless of the content of a post?
0 Xoth_Bnug 2013-10-31
It's double-plus good!
0 Izwe 2013-10-31
Still get them on the front page
-1 readyready 2013-10-31
Genius. Good on you mods! It may not stop them all but it will help with those who are live-ish.
-2 [deleted] 2013-10-31
[deleted]
0 [deleted] 2013-10-31
Fuck who? The mods?
12 Detached09 2013-10-31
Also you can simply uncheck "use subreddit style" and it'll let you downvote.
2 Zebraton 2013-10-31
The people doing it.
1 Belly187 2013-10-31
Fuck it, have an upvote!
0 ugdr6424 2013-10-31
both the bots/brigaders and the mods removing the downvote arrow
1 privatejoker 2013-10-31
Pretty good example of this going on right now in the Al Jazera AMA