From what I understand this sub isn't meant to be an echo-chamber. Not everything posted is convincing so the weaker theories get weeded out thru conversation/debate. If you are shutting out the idea of discussing anything because your mind is made up already and anybody who disagrees with you "must be a shill" what is the point of even visiting a public discussion forum? Frankly, some of the more absurd theories make the entire community look bad if people think we all believe them so it is in our best interests to stamp them out if they don't seem possible. In the end the ideas that make the most sense or have the most evidence on their side will prevail.

I never said anything like that. I'm just wondering why you guys don't believe in any conspiracies, yet you're here, and reply in every single thread why it's not a conspiracy.

Why not r/cookies?

I'll be honest, i don't believe many conspiracies, but i like to provide my abilities to fact-check those i believe i have an expertise in, debunking stupidity and making people think clearly is exactly what this sub is for so when someone tells me that 9/11 was done by missiles disguised by holograms i just have to sit them down and tell them that it's bullshit, and that if you want the truth you first have to examine things in a logical manner.

Who said it was done by missiles disguises as holograms? Just sounds fallacious

No no some people genuinely believe 9/11 was carried out using missiles disguised as planes because 'planes could never inflict that damage' and that all the dead bodies were planted afterwards

Open letter here to all people who are accused of being a shill, but really are not:

The best way to respond to that would be to say "Yes I understand that shills exist and it is a huge issue for free speech on the internet. Here is a list of links that anyone can peruse so that we can all agree that they exist and need to be exposed. Spread the information far and wide. I share these links because I am a real human being who happens to be skeptical about this one issue, but I cannot blame anyone for accusing me of this because I understand the scope of the problem. Please take this spreading of information as a good faith gesture that I am not a shill. Thank you."

why do they need to be exposed?

My indication of a good argument IS being called a shill. When people make an airtight argument disporving a conspracy the default responce is to call them a shill and disregard their argument because they cannot poke holes in it. IF a "shill" is arguing for a position that is entirely false and indefensible by anyone who isn't paid then it should be trivial to debunk their arguments.

the persecution complex of this place is hilarious, and thats why I come here.

Here's the point: A shill is not going to be allowed to spread awareness of shills. Responding to a person who accuses you of being a shill with a post similar to mine should prove to any normal person that you are not a shill. This also helps to spread awareness of this problem and stops the argument dead in it's tracks. What will a person say to that? Sure, maybe 1 or 2 really stupid redditors will find a way to still call you a shill, but the majority of this problem will instantly vanish for both sides of the aisle here if we adopt this as common practice. The only people losing out would be actual shills, so we should expect a bunch of people making this excuse and that excuse about why they don't want to use the method I described.

The only thing that will happen is we will all build respect and trust for each other instead of bitching about who is technically a troll and who is technically a shill. This community will never amount to anything if we can't at least unite a majority of us with a common understanding. We can hash out our differences more efficiently without all of the accusations. We still have a massive problem with r/conspiratard, (Coincidentally, they directly linked to this thread) but at least this problem can be easily dealt with. You don't even have to change the wording around if you're lazy.

nobody in /r/conspiracy seams to be addressing the elephant in the room and that is that there are indeed shills but not just from the US - Russia IRAN china etc etc all in here spreading propaganda.

Because you're speaking almost entirely in fallacies. "When someone makes an air tight argument" - not only that is a hypothetical that you're pretending has actually happened - it has probably never happened. Maybe in r/gaming but not here. The worst part is I spend an almost unhealthy amount of time here and I can count the number of times someone has been called a shill unfairly on one hand. Yet people like you want to paint this broad brush of the place like it happens all the time - just like the people that say "nothing factual is ever posted here" - it's not an argument worth challenging because it's so profoundly stupid.

The funniest part is that your persecution complex is what needs to be checked.

can you be more specific? not entirly sure what you mean by the last part

Isn't this just proof that you shouldn't believe anything you hear and instead seek an open discussion about it? I highly doubt that you may end up commenting back and forth with a shill, and even if you are you have the opportunity at a legitimate argument. I feel like this point just verifies the fact that questioning everything on here is incredibly important.

Shill here, I do it because you can't handle the truth.

As many downvotes as you've gotten, I think you do a great service here if you reliably fact check things that are really debatable just to reign in fringe arguments. That helps the overall credibility of the sub-reddit. That is if you are truly fact checking fringe arguments, however.

Dick.

I do believe in conspiracies. I don't believe in every conspiracy theory though. Just because I think JFK wasn't killed by Oswald doesn't mean I have to believe the queen of England is a reptilian shape shifter. Not every conspiracy theory is valid. And I don't go to the cookies sub because that's not a topic I care about but this is.

So do you agree that shills are on Reddit?

I think that there are definitely accounts made for the purpose of pushing certain corporate or political agendas, yes.

And how many of them would you guess are on Reddit?

No clue about that. Maybe 2-5% of all users I'd guess?

So do you think any of them would trickle into r/conspiracy? Especially the posts that hit the number 1 or 2 spots? Remember, we have a massive bloated government, so you might think it inefficient to troll r/conspiracy, but all it would really take is ONE person with 50 accounts, and this entire block of 200,000 subscribers can be easily influenced. I know it sounds crazy to think account 1,2,3,x,y and z are all separate shills because that's probably not true. It's probably just one guy in a military base somewhere, or a team of guys who take care of this entire site.

I don't think that's impossible but I think if an idea/theory is strong enough it wouldn't matter what somebody said against it. I'd think if there were shills in this sub they'd be posting completely absurd nonsense and up voting it so it gets to the front page and to make the entire sub look like a bunch of lunatics. It'd be easier for them to discredit us that way than try to change everybody's mind. I think that's what happened to the 9-11 truth movement. There are a bunch of credible architects and pilots and physicists who said something other than the official story happened and it should be investigated again, but then u had people popping up saying that no planes even hit the building and it was really holograms or cgi. That sorta claim then became associated with the truth movement making it much more difficult for the general public to support.

I don't think that's impossible but I think if an idea/theory is strong enough it wouldn't matter what somebody said against it. I'd think if there were shills in this sub they'd be posting completely absurd nonsense and up voting it so it gets to the front page and to make the entire sub look like a bunch of lunatics.

They've openly admitted to doing so.

I agree with you, but I don't see why they would stick to that tactic only. See the comments in the Bill Cooper thread. It always seems like Bill Cooper and 9/11 bring out the guys who militantly defend the official story and call everyone else conspiracy lunatic nutcases and then upvote each other.

Like I said, bloated government, huge budget, the government admits to doing it, huge amount of people here...I don't know. I think it's obvious.

I think this is very valid, and, frankly, reminds me of a lot of the people on here talking about crisis actors and fake victims at Sandy Hook. They believe in an evil shadow government that would orchestrate school shootings, but the kids wouldn't actually be killed and they'd rather open up the conspiracy to a bunch of actors and trust them to keep the secret, etc, etc.

lol

Conspiracies succeed when the number of people knowing the details are small. Actors and legions of conspirators don't make for successful conspiracies. There's no need for them, either. Anyone else made privvy to the details is solely a detriment. Create an event and people will react. This is so basic and logical it shouldn't need to be explained.

this is a tired bullshit excuse pulled out again and again. you discount compartmentalization, obedience to authority, and threats of consequences.

besides, who is saying that nobody knows the details, we are discussing it aren't we?

Excuse for what, exactly? This is how I see the reality of the situation. Compartmentalization works like this: In the Manhattan Project you had over 100,000 people working on the atom bomb. They were compartmentalized, as in teams of scientists were building things like smaller detonators, containment devices, etc. If you hire actors to pretend their child died- that's not compartmentalization. Those actors would know they're part of a conspiracy to fake children's deaths.

You can threaten people with consequences, and people are obedient to authority- but there's no purpose. There's a shooting there are victims families to interview. There would be no point, and the people planning the conspiracy would then have to forever worry those legions of actors wouldn't have a crisis of conscience and come clean or have a deathbed confession or write a letter to be opened upon their death.

besides, who is saying that nobody knows the details, we are discussing it aren't we?

This doesn't make sense on any level. I assume it's in response to this, "Anyone else made privvy to the details is solely a detriment," but it's not a logical response. Any other people brought into the conspiracy is a detriment to the conspiracy's possible success. You discussing this on the internet doesn't indicate you know any details of what happened. If anything, as I stated above, it indicates you're obfuscating a situation with a conspiracy theory that is completely illogical, impractical, and unnecessary.

There's a lot of shady stuff surrounding the Oklahoma City Bombing. Everyone who has looked at it questions why Andreas Strassmeir, "Andy the German," a former resident of Elohim City and a German with strong ties to International Intelligence agencies was involved and was allowed to flee to Germany when he was clearly one of the "John Does" being sought. You know what no sane conspiracy theorist questions- whether the upset people outside the blown-up building were actors or not.

John Doe #2- http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HyyDHyAwI6k/SsQxg7WLZrI/AAAAAAAAGi4/l5QrjTFyZpA/s400/john+doe+%232.jpg

Andreas Strassmeir-http://cdn.historycommons.org/images/events/a999strassmeir_2050081722-35495.jpg

EDIT- And why would they hire actors and have fake deaths? To spare people's lives at the risk of getting caught? Ridiculous.

Those actors would know they're part of a conspiracy to fake children's deaths.

How much insurance money and donations did they receive? Would you also turn it down if your family was threatened implicitly? How about if you believed in the ends so much that it justified the means for you?

Also, they are re-using actors. I've seen them use the same ones a few times already.. enough with Posner and Rosen (anagrams no coincidence lol) they sure like anagrams don't they.

I keep my suspicions of who and why to myself, but whatever it is, it's certainly evil.

And why would they hire actors and have fake deaths? To spare people's lives at the risk of getting caught? Ridiculous.

Posner and Rosen aren't anagrams. Even if they were, your theory is that they're using anagrams to tip you off? Why?

They're evil, so why not kill people and then not hire actors and not get caught. I didn't think you really believed this, but the talk of anagrams has me wondering.

There's no need for actors. They could only exponentially increase the chances of the conspiracy being unveiled. People have changes of hearts, find Jesus, write letters opened upon their death, etc, etc.

Like I said, it makes sense to ask questions about the OKC bombing, it makes no sense to accuse the people outside the bombed building to be actors.

And why would they hire actors and have fake deaths? To spare people's lives at the risk of getting caught?

Ask them yourself. And what does fake deaths entail doing.. not much compared to faking a bloody massacre that was impossible and unverified.

it makes sense to ask questions about EVERYTHING they tell you. if you want to bury your head in the sand go ahead. ignorance is bliss

It's your theory. I'm asking you- what would they stand to gain from hiring actors and faking deaths?

And what does fake deaths entail doing.. not much compared to faking a bloody massacre that was impossible and unverified

Faking deaths would be faking the bloody massacre.

Calling you out for not making sense isn't burying my head in the sand. There's a lot of real evil shit going on, stop looking for anagrams and actors and look at what's really happening.

It's your theory. I'm asking you- what would they stand to gain from hiring actors and faking deaths?

It's not my theory. It's yours that they are authentic. The theory is that these are actual parents of dead kids. That theory is based on impossible and absent evidence. The onus is on you.

and they love their anagrams... adapted from gematria

It's your theory. I'm asking you- what would they stand to gain from hiring actors and faking deaths?

It's not my theory.

I thought you had some theory that the people that purported to have lost kids at Sandy Hook weren't real mourning parents but actors? No?

The theory is that these are actual parents of dead kids

So everyone you see on the news is assumed to be an actor unless it can be proven to you that they are real people. I see. Even if you can't explain a reason why anyone, anywhere would benefit from them being an actor. Uh-huh.

and they love their anagrams... adapted from gematria

Looks like you've answered who the "they" are anyways. It's all about Jewish Numerology. I hate r/conspiratard, but you know what's worse? People in /r/conspiracy that allow them to justify their existence.

I thought you had some theory that the people that purported to have lost kids at Sandy Hook weren't real mourning parents but actors? No?

I thought you had the same story as the narrative given to us without anything self-evident of a massacre. Waiting for some evidence of your narrative before I can prove it wrong. Thanks.

without anything self-evident of a massacre

What would convince you that the shooting happened if you think everyone you see on the news is an actor?

Why do you think Jewish Numerology plays into this at all?

This is the big question you keep dodging- what would it benefit the conspirators to hire actors (exponentially increasing the chances they'll be caught) as opposed to actually doing a shooting?

I'm sure you won't answer that, because I've asked it over and over and the closest you've come is "ask them yourself" when that's what you're suggesting? It's asinine.

What would convince you that the shooting happened if you think everyone you see on the news is an actor?

I didn't say everyone I see is an actor. If you are going to be dishonest, find someone else to bait and manipulate.

Here's the question I am asking, and the answer will answer your question that you think I am dodging.

Why do you believe that Lanza massacred these schoolkids?

This conversation started because I said that the people in this sub going on about crisis actors are obfuscating things. You responded to that. I've been asking you over and over what benefit actors would have and why you believe actors would be brought into a conspiracy. You haven't answered that.

What reason do I have to believe they are legitimate?

jews use gematria, the english anagrams are only based on jewish mysticism. if they were a jewish group, woudln't they stick with the hebrew that works?

Why would this group of Evil Jews want to give you hints that they're behind this?

If they wanted to, and they wanted to do so with anagrams, why did you point out two words that aren't even anagrams to support this?

If there was any conspiracy to do this why leave hints at all, wouldn't it be logical to try to cover up the fact that it happened? Oh, but if you realized that, you'd also realize they wouldn't let a bunch of actors know they were doing this.

group of Evil Jews

what are you on about?

jews use gematria, the english anagrams are only based on jewish mysticism. if they were a jewish group, wouldn't they stick with the hebrew that works?

All your references to some "Jewish Group." Answer some of the very pertinent questions I've posed. I suppose in your own way, by not answering, you've given all the answers you need to.

You do realize there's no "P" in Rosen, dashing your already ludicrous Jewish-anagram talk anyways. This is about the level of intellect I was expecting from the "crisis actors" lot. For your sake I hope you're deliberately obfuscating. Either way, you're doing no service to the community.

no, I only mentioned anagrams in passing, and why I don't discount them. You inferred the rest yourself.

you seize on the very little details, that I think are only interesting and represent them as the crux of some fanstastic argument, when really all I want is to know why you believe that Lanza committed this massacre of schoolkids there, that day. It's important to me to understand the way you think.

I've got my tag for you.

flattered

I wouldn't be. You answer questions with gibberish and other questions. You could have given a straight forward reply but you know your stance is indefensible so you try to rope people into defending why they believe what they're told instead of explaining yourself. You have an odd fascination with Jews, numerology, and anagrams, and, apparently, nothing in any news source can be considered factual because who knows if that's not just an actor on the television- lying to you- for reasons you are unable of articulating.

Why would they be lying to you? Well why do you believe them?

"Reputable opinion," indeed.

You answer questions with gibberish and other questions. You could have given a straight forward reply but you know your stance is indefensible so you try to rope people into defending why they believe what they're told instead of explaining yourself.

same to you

Read the thread again, dumbass. That was you that kept dodging the question I've asked since the beginning:

Why hire actors, increasing the odds of being caught, when conspirators could simply facilitate a killing? Why do you believe that makes any kind of sense? Because Rosen and Prosen aren't anagrams?

And I told you that it's insanity to expect me to provide you evidence based on a fabricated premise.

You tell me why you believe the story is legitimately the truth. There doesn't seem to be any good reason but faith in authority. And now you result to pejoratives. Nice.

you're cut off.

I'll end it how you started it:

lol

But what was funny? We'll never know, because you haven't stated your position. Only cried about me saying you make no sense without explaining why or answering any questions I posed.

It's a very mainstream alternative news/forum now, 10% of people use reddit? OF COURSE there are paid sponsors, if there weren't then people are seriously screwing the pooch on insane investment opportunities.

There's 203,143 people that are subscribed to this forum. You have made a drastic marginalization.

This is an important forum for reasonable conspiracies that can be backed by legitimate evidence which may be falsified if new facts come to light. However, there are also lots of beyond crackpot ideas thrown around which in my opinion lower the quality and integrity of actual conspiracies which warrant attention. These are the ones where having critics is very helpful.

Critics are always welcome in all areas of society. And I highly doubt the majority of the crackpot theories here are coming from real people. r/conspiratard has openly admitted to making fake posts to discredit this sub.

My problem is people who spend all day every day doing nothing but calling people names here and distracting everyone with stupid arguments. If you don't like football, don't visit r/NFL. If you believe everything the government says, don't come to r/conspiracy. Simple as that. Those people are here because of a paycheck.

believe has no place in finding the truth only evidence ad critical thinking without bias can truly discover the true nature of reality

Maybe people are waiting to see if there's a real conspiracy with real facts to show up. But while here, read through threads and give their opinion. It's not a super hard concept. Not everyone who subscribes to r/Islam is Islamic. Not everyone who subscribes to r/Europe is a European. Not everyone who subscribes to r/foodporn loves cooking.

Then what is your opinion on the amount of shills (which the government has been admitting for years, please don't argue this because I already provided 15 links)? Reddit is a huge website and this sub has 200,000 readers, so anything that hits the number 1 or 2 post gets a lot of attention. Are you saying our bloated government, as well as the Israeli government, are completely ignoring Reddit and/or this sub?

What's the problem with admitting it?

You provided links to what? Possibly troll accounts? This subreddit is one of the easiest to troll and upset in the history of reddit. Every subreddit has trolls, this has a larger amount because of it's subject and user base.

You want me to admit something is fact when I have no proof of it. I won't do that because I don't talk out of my ass. You are starting to act like a troll yourself.

The US government and many other governments have openly admitted many times that they hire shills who have multiple accounts to push political agendas online. Reddit is a huge website, therefore it has shills on it. This has been known for many years and I'm still baffled by the amount of people who deny it when it is openly admitted to the public.

DARPA Social Media in Strategic Communication (SMISC)

BBC News: US plans to 'fight the net' revealed

BBC News: Pentagon plans propaganda war

CENTCOM engages bloggers

WIRED: Air Force Releases ‘Counter-Blog’ Marching Orders

The Guardian: Israel organizes volunteers to flood the net with Israeli propaganda

The Guardian: Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war

Israel To Pay Students For Pro-Israeli Social Media Propaganda

Jewish Internet Defense Force

BBC News: China's Internet spin doctors

Internet AstroTurfing by private companies

The Guardian: Internet Astroturfing

Reddit: What is the purpose of downvote bots?

Reddit: Downvote bots attached to specific accounts

Air Force ordered software to manage army of fake virtual people

HBGary: Automated social media management

Military contractors propose "false flag" attacks on opponents using fake documents

NPR: Report: U.S. Creates Fake Online Identities To Counter 'Enemy Propaganda'

The Guardian: US spy operation to manipulate social media

The Guardian: The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent

Sentient World Simulation

The US government and many other governments have openly admitted many times that they hire shills who have multiple accounts to push political agendas online.

which is illegal ,Hatch act etc.

govt is govt, politics is politics and should be separate from govt.

Can I ask why you only focus on the US and Israel? Also, some of your "proof", is 10+ year old news articles about proposed ideas. These are the things that make your arguments look weak and contrived. Just giving you advice. But I don't think you're really here to spread facts or real information.

BBC News: China's Internet spin doctors

Go ahead. Say it. Anti-semite, right? The nation of Israel is untouchable because there happens to be Jews there? And you read all of those links in 5 minutes? Come on man. This is fucking ridiculous.

Wow, you're really showing your troll colors now. I never said anything about antisemitism or implied it. Just curious why almost all your links were about the US or Israel, that's all. But like I said, you're an obvious troll so I'll just let you talk to someone else.

I highly doubt China and Turkey have much of an interest in propaganda in this language, although they might, I don't know. That's just my opinion. I personally think Israel and the US do most of the online propaganda in English. Israel probably spends more resources on Arabic, but I still think they spend a enough of an amount on English propaganda to warrant mentioning it. And everyone knows why you asked that question. I'm not stupid.

I'm not stupid.

I'd question that. But at the point you put words in my mouth to make yourself a victim you've killed any civil discourse, which is apparently not what you wanted anyways.

You didn't even read the links and you didn't even see that I linked to one about China. And you're calling me stupid?

the trolls are wasting their time trolling any real believers, its the other people casually reading that are the real targets. to confuse onlookers and distract and dilute a topic.

the shills come in many forms, most are wet-behind-the-ears types with not much world knowledge, just a list of talking points (and FPS gaming history to boot), they tend to flee (delete account/posts) when seriously challenged, others are professional paid PR writers, sometimes with knowledge of the topics under discussion, they tend to waffle on in excruciating detail to distract and sideline a discussion.

the obvious question is why people who are not conspiracy types BUT hang out in r/conspiracy and talk against/about conspiracy when they claim to think/know everything is pure coincidence... they cannot answer that question truthfully.

a true conspiracy reader/researcher knows that not everything is tin-foil hat territory, just some of it, the interesting thing is what that something is, and who is busy defending the official story...

(in one thread elsewhere connected to a legit news story, one of the junior trolls admitted in passing he/she was on a police/fireman facebook page...)

the shills and trolls by their nature and presence, show that certain topics (even 60 year old news stories) are important to people in power and people with budgets.

thats the interesting thing...

You do realize you're also talking to people like myself, who enjoy entertaining conspiracy THEORIES, right? Just because there isn't facts yet doesn't discredit discussion of ideals. The NSA spying was happening long before we had evidence, and many of us knew it. Maybe you should try being more opened minded and realize that just because there isnt real recognized facts about certain topics yet doesn't mean those posts should be met with ridicule and dismissal

You say that, and others have said that too, but a quick check will show that there were actually 0 threads about NSA spying before the leaks. You claim everyone here was enlightened before the masses were, but that's not true. Please prove me wrong, but I've checked and found absolutely nothing. And not just through reddit's search, but using multiple search engines.

Just so you know,I didn't know it was the NSA spying. I knew the monitoring was happening, but me personally, I didn't know if it was CIA, FBI, or what. The point is that I knew it was being monitored. Snowdens revelations merely clarified what I was theorizing.

So you knew someone somewhere was spying on somebody? That doesn't say much for this sub or it's theories...

Suspecting one is being monitored by foreign agents constitutes a conspiracy. Theory.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/i2s7k/i_think_the_us_government_may_be_spying_on_me/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/yuuw3/when_nsa_whistleblower_william_binney_was/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/wr97p/sworn_declaration_of_whistleblower_william_binney/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/sjure/exclusive_national_security_agency_whistleblower/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/rbblv/everybodys_a_target_everybody_with_communication/

EyesfurtherUp 2 points 1 year ago

they have been listening in for decades. http://cryptome.org/echelon-60min.htm

the internet was invented by the MIC.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/11wyku/project_stellar_wind_nsa_agent_william_binney/

You can't provide a shred of evidence for any claim you've made in this thread yet want everyone to believe you. Fuck off troll, we've already had our little discussion elsewhere in this thread.

but a quick check will show that there were actually 0 threads about NSA spying before the leaks.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/i2s7k/i_think_the_us_government_may_be_spying_on_me/

• /u/Gormogon 2 points 2 years ago

• Obligatory comment - The US government is spying on all of us......

Are you going to admit you're wrong, or ignore it like the last time? (also there's 4 other threads I cited above)

Oh he's gonna ignore.

Fuck off troll

Said the shill to the OP.

want everyone to believe you

He never asked anyone's opinion on the description, just stated his own. As far as I know, opinions do not merit evidence. Then again, you can try re-reading the description on this post for that information.

Also, did he give you an invitation to participate on his post by any chance, or did you just came here to insult him and others gratuitously?

Ad hominem much?

It's ok to be wrong, no need to get defensive or obnoxious. Try to keep it civilized.

erm bloody hell. That escalated rather sharpish!

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2013/11/05/former-nsa-codebreaker-i-tried-to-tell-people-about-government-spying

Reread what I said. I was referencing the claim that this sub knew about the spying before anyone else or even theorized it. Also, why did you link to an article from a month ago about someone who said they tried to blow the whistle a while ago but it didn't work? Why did you reply to me with that?

“The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities. ”

From "Between Two Ages" 1970, by a former National Security Advisor. I read that in the early 2000s. Sometimes you have to dig harder than simply reddit searching/googling "NSA spying threads" The info is there, my friend. Seek it out. Edit: This sub is made up of individuals, there is no "this sub".. i knew, and I know many others did. Maybe there was no thread here, who cares?

Troll or idiot? My favorite game on this sub.

I know exactly how you feel ;)

Just look at Rustyshackleford's behavior in this sub. Am I supposed to think he's doing all of this for free? If he is, he's clearly got some kind of mental problem that makes him deny what my posts are saying. I cited threads for him. There's more, so I guess I'll just keep adding them.

When I cited documentation of a fucking presidential national security advisor openly talking about monitoring personal information in 1970 and he called me a troll/idiot I just gave up trying to explain that r/conspiracy isn't the only place where this information exists. I even said in my op that SOME of us knew, and he started talking about this sub as if it was one giant consensus opinion and not individual thinkers. I legitimately think people that are so narrow minded might not even be shilling, just somewhat slower in the head

Rusty is a class A fucking douche. If I was a mod, I would ban him simply because he's obviously trolling and can't admit when he's wrong. It's probably a good thing I'm not a mod.

Gormogon 2 points 2 years ago

Obligatory comment - The US government is spying on all of us......

J973 7 points 2 years ago

They may actually be spying on you. After Gabby Giffords was shot, I was on Huffington Post and some asshole troll made some horrible comment about her so I offhandedly said "IF Obama gets assassinated, I am going to burn down all the Republican's houses in my town".

Apparently that is a huge national threat, or they know Obama is going to be assassinated, because a few days later I had 3 FBI agents at my door talking to me about internet threats. They had pretty much poured through my entire facebook and I do say a lot of anti-authority/govt bullshit.

Keep in mind this also when the middle eastern countries were falling over facebook induced protests.

I took my warning seriously. I watch what I say. I assume that my computer is probably being watched. Flying may interesting. My speech is not free.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/i2s7k/i_think_the_us_government_may_be_spying_on_me/

• Hell, we even have a guy who was talking about hacking cars way before the Hastings episode:

2 years ago

My apologies thats actually 'switch up whips to stay off the radar.' A quote from rapper 50 cent. I'm referring to 'black boxes' those of which can be accessed remotely. It has been proven by researchers that they can be hacked fairly effectively. If I was worried about someone tracking my every movement. I wouldn't drive a fairly new car.

Yeah, from what I understand anything OBD2 can be compromised electronically.

we had credible tech news about people spying and hacking DoD computers, we suspected China/Israel/Russia, but it could have been the NSA.

that Register article on rootkits on DoD/Pentagon computers, discovered during a software upgrade.

Wait, just to confirm. We have to believe in every conspiracy theory and never disagree with any "official narrative" that comes from a thread in order to post her? I thought this place was a thinking ground, not a think-as-i-say ground.

Why would I confirm that? I never said that and you know it. Read my post. It clearly calls out the people who only disagree with everything on this sub. Not someone who disagrees with something. That would be a ridiculous claim.

I believe that there are conspiracies. I also believe that most conspiracy theories are total bullshit.

Good, then I am not talking about you, which you would understand if you read my post.

Yes you are. I disagree with something here in each of my posts. And I've been called a shill.

I find it hilarious that you are trying to dictate a way for me to behave.

Who do you think you are?

And I've been called a shill.

Who gives a shit? People are stupid. If some people are stupid, some stupid people will make their way into r/conspiracy. Big deal. If you're not a shill, don't worry about it. This post is for anyone who does not believe in conspiracies, yet find some weird justification for spending 8 hours a day here. If shills exist, and they do, then those people are probably shills. Not too hard to figure this out.

Who gives a shit?

You. In your opening post.

Dud, if you don't want answers, don't ask questions.

"Who gives a shit if you specifically are called a shill?" That is what I meant. I give a shit about actual shills being here, not whether you were called one. Now if you don't believe anything in this sub and are only here to disagree with everything, then I have to say that is very weird and I don't blame anyone for accusing you of that.

See the original post. What do you think about my solution to being called a shill? Do you agree that posting a similar response would end the accusations?

The old "echo-chamber" argument. Seen that around a lot lately.

Would you consider /r/xbox or /r/ps4 "echo-chambers" because they enjoy their hobby? Or just sharing commonly known information among themselves? Just because there is no citations to all of the library of congress to satisfy "skeptics", doesn't mean people are not in the know. Those who badger constantly for information clearly are in the wrong place if they don't even know about the topic being discussed, and militantly defend the opposite of a conspiracy theory.

Like the OP said: "Why don't I see you posting in r/cookies militantly defending brownies as the superior snack?"

Also, I may be wrong but I would really find hard to believe there is a sub called /r/cookietard which's sole purpose is to debunk the delicious recipes in /r/cookies.

Weird how you guys always question the theory presented, and not the "official" version. It's almost like you're paid government apologists!

the reason they want to derail our "echo chamber" is because we are largely correct in our opinions and are being proven correct freshly every day! and there is lots of money involved in keeping this ride going. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0

Well said.

Because choice of console is subjective, whereas conspiracies generally deal with the objective.

I know this is so abnormal, people getting more care about this than cookies. Is this analogy arguing that this sub about aliens, cabals, shady government workings and alternative news should be as heated/argumentative/trolled as the cookie sub? Is that what you are shooting for?

Thanks for completely missing my point.

Try reading again. If it's still confusing, read it again.

Call a grown-up if you still have problems understanding.

Try being less of an ironic butt. My post wasn't about your "point". It's about the analogy, and how it's bad.

It's not bad, it's just beyond your comprehension.

You seem to be the only one having a difficult time understanding.

You're still being an ironic butt. But if it makes you feel better thinking that you understand something beyond my comprehension, delude away.

Ignorance can be a disease. You should probably get that checked out.

ah man roasted. you got me.

Did u even read all my comments in this thread? You've completely missed the point of what I was saying. If your idea of a useful discussion is to post a theory and have 50 comments all saying "I agree" then there is no point in occupying a discussion board.

whoosh

There goes my point, over your head.

Here is the top post over in /r/ps4 at this moment.

225 comments, pretty much all agree that Sam's Club, among others, are shitty retaliers. Can you hear the echo? Because I can't seem to find anyone standing up militant-style for Sam's Club, or even claiming the package was faked by OP, or told to ignore his lame attempt at ruining the store's image.

It's like this is kind of exclusive to /r/conspiracy. This is why:

Debating PS4 is not a threat to The Powers That Be, criticizing the government and theorizing about cover ups, is. That's why 50 comments saying "fuck the government" is an echo-chamber, and 200 comments saying "Sam's Club sucks" is not.

Get it now?

I get the fact that I usually try to be kind of civil in my posts and rarely get downvoted because my comments are either passed over or vaguely agreed with, whereas on this sub my posts usually have an equal amount of down/ups. Don't put too much stock into it though, if you are curious and genuinely want to read about interesting shit then open those hidden downvoted comments and see both sides.

I think this sub takes deeply unwarranted flak and is visited by people just wanting to take the piss or laugh at us, but the content is still there. I know it's not a solution but on a personal level, it's no biggy to uncollapse hidden comments and engage with people who have interesting things to say.

Based on my well though-out responses on this thread (and lack of replies), do you think I deserve my current karma count?

I get mass downvoted for "unpopular" opinions, so it's not my problem looking at the other side.

On the posts I comment on, I give the OP the benefit of the doubt. I prefer to try to understand his logic before imposing my own and being dismissive. If I disagree with something, I spend no time even bothering to comment someone's post just to nay-say, or ridicule.

This is a prime example of the cancer taking over this sub.

Getting back to my reply which you responded to, do you think I'm wrong about the "echo-chamber" theory?

No, I think you are vaguely correct about this echo chamber theory. It pisses me off whenever someone spouts the 'shill' line because it is lazy and detracts from the point in case, even if a dissenter is a shill you should destroy their argument through discourse, not a strawman (apologies for referencing logical fallacies, which are one of my pet hates!)

I do think though that people should accept that the things in this sub are by their very nature outlandish, 'out there' or unsubstantiated and people should look at them with an open mind, rather than being belligerently brutal about them.

Case in point, chemtrails.

Personally, I think the whole chemtrails thing is total bollocks and I honestly would need some serious evidence before I gave credence to those posts. That doesn't give me the right to reply to every chemtrails thread with a simple "bullshit" reply though - I'll just read it and if it sounds like nonsense I won't participate. No need to downvote or call them liars or mental or anything.

This sub needs a bit more moderation, not as in mods doing stuff but a bit more moderation as in people should be more moderate with their views and replies and interactions, and should stop swearing at each other and calling people shills.

If something massive was to come out, I'd want this sub to be the people to find and document and collect the evidence, but as it stands they'd probably ignore the topic in hand and have a twenty page shit-show arguing with one another, which is dissapointing.

That's just my 2p as a true fan of this subreddit.

What part did you find too vague? Maybe I can help you understand it better.

I think that was probably my fingers getting ahead of my brain, I sometimes type quicker than I think.

Even though we are offering opposing ideas I feel we are probably somewhat on the same page, do you agree?

Yes, I agree we are talking about the same thing.

Are you more worried about your karma or your message?

200 people all agreeing that Sam's Club sucks is inconsequential (Or should I immediately assume that Costco has paid-shills trashing Sam's Club?). I also don't care about debating who the best NBA team of all time is or what kind of car is the coolest. Not all topics are equally important to debate. Debating what is potentially happening in our world as controlled by some shadow group is a hell of a lot more important. Read my entire convo I had in this thread about this. I already explained my point as it relates to this.

Some people clearly enjoy getting a rise out of users of this sub, and posts like this probably don't help.

I mean, I'm pretty skeptical of a lot of stuff on here, but I read/post here lots because I enjoy entertaining alternative ideas, I think that /r/conspiratard is a pretty shitty sub, akin to /r/cringe and the like.

I guess you just have to remember that the internet is big and full of all flavours of people from the saintly to the common or garden dickhead/bully and people who discuss outlandish things are an easy target for people who seek to feel better about themselves by dictating their ideas on others.

In all honesty, I think it's a far better tactic to just ignore them. But also to not reel out the 'shill' response any time your ideas are questioned.

Finally I'd just like to make the point that I think nobody should really be too sure about ANYTHING! Keeping an open mind and trying to chat in a civil manner is super important IMHO.

Don't know why U got down voted. A very good answer.

Thanks bud, I worry that this trend of 'shill' accusations just makes any of us who are curious or interested in exploring alternate ideas look overly defensive and a tad ridiculous.

Why the quotes? Shills exist. The government admits it. 200,000 people subscribe here, so a large percentage of those people get the top r/conspiracy post on their front page. One person with 50 accounts can drastically influence what 200,000 people see in the most well known anti-government sub on Reddit, which is a massive website.

All it takes is 30 bucks an hour or something plus benefits to some guy who wants to manipulate the opinions of a shitload of people. Since the government wastes money on purpose, they probably hired a few of them.

In some ways I see what you are saying, often the top post here is a lazy meme post or something little better whilst great well researched and good discussion generally is found in the new queue, but then the same happens on every sub even if the content is nothing contentious at all. People just like cheap, lazy shit.

The wider point is, that even if we are facing an army of shills, you aren't going to win the 'argument' by calling them out. You win by providing fantastic, well researched posts with verifiable facts and decent links.

If you devolve into playing the game then you still lose, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard.

The wider point is, that even if we are facing an army of shills, you aren't going to win the 'argument' by calling them out. You win by providing fantastic, well researched posts with verifiable facts and decent links.

we dont have to win, we dont give a fuck what some ignorant traitorous .gov dweeb thinks, or what his spreadsheet and carefully crafted at great public expense "debunk" sites say.

The wider point is, that even if we are facing an army of shills, you aren't going to win the 'argument' by calling them out. You win by providing fantastic, well researched posts with verifiable facts and decent links.

This is a beautiful point and well stated. Unfortunately, this is not how the majority of posts and comments look on this sub.

Im a scientist, first and foremost. I like to follow the scientific method to uncover something. The way it works is like this:

• Ask a Question
• Do Background Research
• Construct a Hypothesis
• Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
• Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
• Communicate Your Results

What ends up happening more often than not in this subreddit is something more like this.

• Find a blog post from someone who shares a similar anti-government bias.
• Post this to /r/conspiracy
• The majority of /r/con members then support this post because it reaffirms their own anti-government biases.
• The information that was once an opinion then transforms into fact.
• Anyone that then disagrees with this fact becomes a pariah.

And while it's nice that the sidebar says "this subreddit is a thinking ground, above all else we respect everyone's opinions and ALL religious beliefs and creeds," The reality is far less utopian.

I would LOVE to see more open communication about issues, but it has to be done in such a way that someone with a dissenting opinion is not ostracized over it.

Perhaps its just the nature of the subject matter that drives such passionate people to believe so strongly in their convictions. But its this passion that encourages others to poke fun at these individuals. A militant conspiracy theorist that refuses to use logic or reason, or disavows any solid evidence is an easy target.

Tell you what: In many instances -- say 9/11 -- the science to prove the 'official conspiracy theory' wrong is indeed settled. Demands by the extremely obtuse to lay it all out for them, over and over and over again, are therefore not warranted, yet the detractors consider non satisfaction of their demands an intellectual victory, when it's merely a testament to their intellectual laziness. There's a difference between being scientific and being obtuse.

the science to prove the 'official conspiracy theory' wrong is indeed settled.

And yet there are still people that put all their faith in a refuted, discredited journal paper.

Yea, refuted and discredited. Sure. I mean, seriously: You even christened your account DefiantShill...

I put all my faith in the laws of nature -- got any papers to debunk them, too, you "scientist"?

It has been neither refuted (successfully) nor discredited. They sure do like to make these claims though.

Yes! They're all peer-reviewed and filled with scientific research without any conjecture, so you probably wouldn't understand them.

well actually it has been refuted and discredited. but the relevant paper was written in french. there are various science-blog-type sites that criticise the paper, and the criticism raised are valid(i'll get to a few I consider important in a moment).

and Jones/harrit didn't do this, and Scientists are not generally going to expend resources double checking the science of a non science paper. That would be like expecting scientists to formally refute every claim of ghosts, or aliens, or monsters in the closet.

The paper itself is - from the point of view of a phd chemist (my focus is certain classes of drugs and drug delivery mechanisms) with some experience in materials analysis- poor. its not really terrible, just poor: the process as of analysis as described in the paper is simply not capable of determining if thermite (or some similar explosive/incendiary) was in the dust. (and thats if you accept that the dust samples used were from wtc7, or even from 9/11, or even from new york for that matter). and no one should simply accept that on face value). In fact: the analysis described is not capable of pinpointing any particular material/component of the dust.

Its worth noting that harrit is not an expert in electron microprobe analysis (EMPA/EDX/SEM) and this was the first time that he was an author on a paper that used this particular measurement method. This - to a qualified chemist - is a big deal: having a phd in a science does not make you profiicent in all things sciencey. and harrit is far from proficient (if that paper is anything to go by). here are some of the most glaring problems.

Chemistry hats on please, but the first one is simple:

-the paper simply identifies characteristics of a material found in a 'sample' . The red/gray chips have displayed certain characteristics that are displayed by any number of other materials which you might find in any 100 year old city: paints, adhesives, rust (yes just normal steel rust!), various industrial coatings, cleaning agents...etc..etc. so the point is jones/harrits paper stopped well short of pinpointing any one particular material. and by 'well short' I mean like saying that you walked 2 flights of stairs from the ground floor of wtc1 but telling people you reached the roof.

-The Al slugs would give inhomogeneous background Al signals in the EDXA spectra. This was not considered or discussed in the paper. There could be no or little Al in the red-layer. (I never heard of a materials scientist using Al slugs as a sample holder if you want to analyze for Al!)

-The carbon adhesive tape will give inhomogeneous background C signals in the EDXA spectra. This was not considered or discussed in the paper. There could be no or little C in the red-layer.

-There is as much or more Si (silicon) in the EDXA results than Al in all the red-layer results and Si and Al are closely correlated in their spatial distributions (e.g., their Figure 10). No probable explanation is given for this. This is not consistent with the presence of metallic Al.

-Oxygen (O) is more closely spatially correlated with Al and Si than with Fe (e.g., their Figure 10). No probable explanation is given for this. This contradicts the conclusion of the presence of metallic Al.

-No effort was made to estimate the Fe:Al elemental ratio in the red-layer. Synthetic thermite or nanothermite would have a ratio of 1:1. The point is never discussed.

-The exothermic peak in the DSC traces occurs at a temperature (420 C) approximately 90 C below the temperature for the thermite reaction. No explanation is proposed for this. Chemical activation energies of known reactions cannot be so sample dependent, whether nano-sized or not. This is not the thermite reaction.

-In the reacted product (after heating in DSC), no Al-oxide is observed as a residue, as required by the thermite reaction. No explanation is given for this.
The obvious needed measurement of X-ray diffraction was not used to confirm the solid mineral species (oxides or metals). This is unacceptable in a materials chemistry paper. This is not considered by the authors.

-Much is made of the fact that Fe-rich spheroids are present after reaction but there is no discussion of the grey-layer or of the origin of the Si-rich spheroids. Heating causes many things and there is an exothermic reaction so the conclusions about the presence of Fe-rich spheroids (which are reported to contain oxygen) as evidence for the thermite reaction is tenuous. Now, all of that is base don the assumption that the sampels are 'representive of the dust from the wtc7 alone and not subject to any contaminants'.

But having written that is there an alternative proposal that would explain the results? i.e. if jones/harrit didnt got far enough to pinpoint the specific materials what else could possibly give such results? well: as i said before many things. To pick one for no particular reason: rust. steel rusts. and when steel rusts in a humiid building environment it grows a crust composed of layers of diffrent Fe-oxides and Fe-oxyhydroxides: micro-layers with layers of different Fe-oxides species (wustite, maghemite, hematite, etc...etc..). In a humid atmosphere the outer layers will be Fe- oxyhydroxides (stuff like goetite, lepidocrocite and akaganeite). Teh latter 3 Fe-oxyhydroxides have the same chemical formula: FeOOH, and difer only in their crystal structures. These Fe-oxyhydroxides typically form as nanoparticles and have the same needle and nanoflake-like morphologies as observed here.

When these Fe-oxyhydroxides are heated in a DSC they undergo an exothermic reaction of 'dehydroxlation' (which jsut mean the loss of an OH) and so are transformed from FeOOH to Fe2O3 (i.e. hematite) at a temperature of approximately 400deg (C). The temperature of this transformation can vary depending on exact chemical composition, and on the crystal structure, but it is always at approximately 400deg.

Steel contains Carbon and Silicon which would end up as the oxidation products, especially mas the aforementioned oxyhydroxides.

In order for the papert to have passed peer review the following (at the very least) shoiuld be considered:

-They should prove that metallic Al nano-flakeswere present using Xray diffractoin (or electron diffraction) -they realy should be A LOT more careful in their EDXA analyses. Its likely they would've seen FeOOH not metallic Al. -they could also (and should also) make some nanothermite, then measure its DSC trace and look for the Al-oxide residue after reaction.

TL:DR- joens/harrits paper is poor and does not describe a methodology capable of identifying a specific material. Not even nano thermite. edit: lots of typos but nevermind edit2: found the french critique. by a Professor Jerome Quirant http://www.bastison.net/RESSOURCES/Critique_Article_Harrit.pdf

Thanks for your extensive c/p job, I guess. Gotta say that for a "scientist", you seem to fall prey to mistaking assumptions for facts rather easily -- nowhere was any paper specified in the above conversation.

While that has, in my opinion, already severely tarnished your e-reputation, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you at least possess an undergraduate degree worth of knowledge of physics, and direct your attention to the undisputed free fall of WTC7 -- which, hopefully needless to say, would violate the laws of physics, were it not for controlled demolition.

Whatever means were employed to pull it off are secondary to that established fact. Period.

PS: OIC, you're a conspiratard. Guess that clears things up nicely. Now crawl back into the hole from whence you came.

Haha well it would certainly play into a stereotype!

I think it's possible on a small scale. But, i looked at one guys history (who got a bit sweary) earlier, and rather than a shill he just seemed pissed off and wanted to take it out on others.

The world has a lot of that.

I do think a fair amount of con/tard fans troll here tho.

Yep, you are spot on mate. A lot of people use the 'net as a good place to vent out their anger and people making 'silly' (in their eyes) claims are a super easy target.

The thing is, we need to be better than that rather than reply tit-for-tat otherwise it makes for ugly reading. You can see that in so many threads here where people are just figuratively knocking lumps out of each other and barely discussing topic in hand.

Exactly, a shit load of threads pretty much descend into that dynamic, and it becomes a yawn fest. After a bad day, i've been guilty of it myself the odd time :-/.

Mitchell and Webb did a good 30second 'bit' about it. Pretty much sums up r/con half the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6TPsCRmPXI

haha yeah me too. God that clip cuts a little close to the bone for me! :D I say that as a horribly disillusioned 30-something! Love mitchell and webb.

I do try and be a bit better than that though usually, and try and remain civil, i must admit sometimes i can be horribly snarky sometimes. You can see how people would use /r/conspiracy as a venting post, it has nothing to do with shilling and everything to do with just being a pissed off human looking to have a pop at someone/something they consider ridiculous.

paid shills. i met one the other day in CMV, he said that "not everyone deserves to be represented" and "only losers beleive things that are not mainstream

.

its irresponsible for the government to pay shills to say things like that, it threatens national security because it is the kind of thing that can incite a person to build a bomb and use it.

Are you ok with think tanks and other tax exempt political organizations paying for comment making and comment voting?

no. i think if a think tank or an organisation wants the world to hear its opinion, it should make an announcement, or an AMA thread.

paying others to post things is dishonest, and has the potential for massive abuse on a huge scale.

Why is everyone that disagrees with you people's world view a shill? Is it really that hard to accept that people are different and think differently from you?

because often its more comforting to beleive that the asshole you're arguing with is a shill, than to accept that he's a real, live human being who is genuinely that stupid.

plus, shills arent very difficult to spot, the truth is not on their side and it shows, because it forces them to use other tactics to accomplish their goals. because in any argument where two rational people use logic and adequate evidence, the truth will ALWAYS win. the court system relies upon that fact.

shills tend to use shallow, generalised responses designed to incite anger and conflict to derail the discussion, and discredit their target by trolling them.

they have a profound love of using fallacies in their replies, resorting to strawman arguments and ad-hominem attacks, attempting to draw people into verbal fights and change the subject rather than continue discusing the "sensitive issue" that they are trying to suppresss.

they will find any excuse to sound angry, in order to draw attention and provoke the target into replying.

they are trolls. professional, and paid per post.

because often its more comforting to beleive that the asshole you're arguing with is a shill, than to accept that he's a real, live human being who is genuinely that stupid.

You were really close to making a reasonable comment there but then you ruined it with the "everyone is stupid except me" line.

plus, shills arent very difficult to spot, the truth is not on their side and it shows

This entire thing makes you sound really fanatical and radical, question authority or the accepted story should really be more about objectively examining both sides and discussing both sides, not taking an absolute opposite. Are some things our government has done conspiracies? Yeah, and there's evidence to show that. Is everything they do a grand conspiracy to control the population? No and it just sounds crazy to say that.

Can you link the comment in CMV from that guy?

unfortunately no, his post was deleted.

"not everyone deserves to be represented"

thats indicative of the mindset of the racist/fascist types they employ in secret squirrel govt departments.

and quite a few copshops out there too, r/bad_cop_no_donut etc.

its the 10% that own and run the country, they think they are the privileged elite, everybody else is 2nd class scum and only there to be harvested for tax monies or used as pawns in the elite's games.

[deleted]

anddd now I'm finally getting off my lazy ass and getting RES. Thank you!

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

People with 1 month old accounts complain about shills.

So being a sockpuppet is okay, as long as you are doing it?

I post like 10-20 times a day. Not 4 times in a month all in one thread saying the exact same thing as a bunch of other month old accounts who barely have any activity except for that same thread.

But that was a side issue. I just wanted to show everyone here that at least one shill is here with like 20 extra accounts that he/she pulls out in certain situations. The main part of this thread is pointing out the militant defense of status quo propaganda and constant trolling. Anyone who does nothing but this is highly suspicious. I don't see how that could even be fun for someone to do. It sounds a lot like work, doesn't it?

Where can I sell this account to a shill?

Because not everything has to be an echo chamber and not everyone who disagrees or thinks differently is a shill, variety is the spice of life.

The old "echo-chamber" argument. Seen that around a lot lately.

Would you consider /r/xbox or /r/ps4 "echo-chambers" because they enjoy their hobby? Or just sharing commonly known information among themselves? Just because there is no citations to all of the library of congress to satisfy "skeptics", doesn't mean people are not in the know. Those who badger constantly for information clearly are in the wrong place if they don't even know about the topic being discussed, and militantly defend the opposite of a conspiracy theory.

Why don't I see people posting in r/cookies militantly defending brownies as the superior snack?"

Also, I may be wrong but I would really find hard to believe there is a sub called /r/cookietard which's sole purpose is to debunk the delicious recipes in /r/cookies.

Here is the top post over in /r/ps4 at this moment.

234 comments, pretty much all agree that Sam's Club, among others, are shitty retaliers. Can you hear the echo? Because I can't seem to find anyone standing up militant-style for Sam's Club, or even claiming the package was faked by OP, or told to ignore his lame attempt at ruining the store's image.

It's like this is kind of exclusive to /r/conspiracy. This is why:

Debating PS4 is not a threat to The Powers That Be, criticizing the government and theorizing about cover ups, is. That's why 200 comments saying "fuck the government" is an echo-chamber, and 200 comments saying "Sam's Club sucks" is not.

Get it now?

Weird how you guys always question the theory presented, and not the "official" version. It's almost like you're paid government apologists!

Are you guys using the same script with slight modifications for each account/handler? Time to get a new one.

Reddit is full of echo chambers, its like a central pillar of reddit "Thou shall agree with everyone else" and its really obnoxious, you guys take it to the next level by shouting SHILL every time someone disagrees with you. This sub needs to be more discussion based and by shouting SHILL whenever someone differs in opinion, it just turns into an echo chamber.

Also, I may be wrong but I would really find hard to believe there is a sub called /r/cookietard[4] which's sole purpose is to debunk the delicious recipes in /r/Cookies

Pretty much, if /r/cookies was big enough it too would have a sub dedicated to hating it, all large subs do.

234 comments, pretty much all agree that Sam's Club, among others, are shitty retaliers. Can you hear the echo? Because I can't seem to find anyone standing up militant-style for Sam's Club, or even claiming the package was faked by OP, or told to ignore his lame attempt at ruining the store's image.

It's a circlejerk, "Sams Club sux" gets upvotes so thats what everyone posts, dissent gets downvoted for disagreeing.

Weird how you guys always question the theory presented, and not the "official" version. It's almost like you're paid government apologists!

Hey man, I'm just being a skeptic like you, I tend to err on the side of simplicity, a global government conspiracy isn't exactly simple. On the same subject, what do you people have against a single world government? I've never seen that one explained.

what other subs do you go to argue topics you are ignorant of?

Reddit is full of echo chambers

What other sub have you accused of being an echo chamber?

shouting SHILL every time someone disagrees with you

I never said that. I only call out the people who disagree with everything on this sub. Not someone who disagrees with something. That would be a ridiculous claim.

it just turns into an echo chamber.

So if 5 people on a post agree on something, you'd call it an echo chamber?

if /r/cookies was big enough it too would have a sub dedicated to hating it, all large subs do.

I don't know of any. Indulge me.

It's a circlejerk, "Sams Club sux" gets upvotes so thats what everyone posts,

Isn't the whole sub a circlejerk since they all appreciate the PS4?

dissent gets downvoted for disagreeing.

No one there got downvoted for disagreeing. They got downvoted for irrelevant comments.

Hey man, I'm just being a skeptic like you, I tend to err on the side of simplicity

If everything is simple to you, how will you ever wrap your head around any conspiracy if you look for the easy answer? There's /r/news for easy answers. Easy answers are not what skeptics looks for.

what do you people have against a single world government?

And we're done here folks.

What other sub have you accused of being an echo chamber?

/r/gaming, /r/atheism, /r/europe, /r/adviceanimals, /r/changemyview, /r/explainlikeimfive, /r/bitcoin, /r/ronpaul, /r/conservative, and many many others. Basically any interest based sub or sub that brings up social issues turns into an echo chamber because of the way reddit is, people downvote based on opinion now instead of based on relevance.

I never said that. I only call out the people who disagree with everything on this sub. Not someone who disagrees with something. That would be a ridiculous claim.

I didn't mean that as you saying it, its just a common theme on this subreddit and other places on reddit.

So if 5 people on a post agree on something, you'd call it an echo chamber?

If 5 people agree on something and refuse to listen to opposing viewpoints, then yes, its an echo chamber.

I don't know of any. Indulge me.

/r/SRSsucks, /r/magicskyfairy, /r/bestofbapc, /r/shitredditsays, any circlejerk sub. All these subs exist to make fun of or get angry at other, larger subs.

Isn't the whole sub a circlejerk since they all appreciate the PS4?

If you can't disagree without being massively downvoted then yes, its a circlejerk.

If everything is simple to you, how will you ever wrap your head around any conspiracy if you look for the easy answer?

Because the simplest solution is most likely to be the truth, some giant conspiracy that involves setting up fake towns and using fake victims just really doesn't make sense compared to something actually happening. People are lazy and as I'm sure you've noticed, people are incompetent.

/r/gaming[1] , /r/atheism[2] , /r/europe[3] , /r/adviceanimals[4] , /r/changemyview[5] , /r/explainlikeimfive[6] , /r/bitcoin[7] , /r/ronpaul[8] , /r/conservative[9] , and many many others.

Care to actually link to the comments? Or do you expect me to take your word for it?

/r/SRSsucks , /r/magicskyfairy , /r/bestofbapc , /r/shitredditsays

These are not critical of the governmemt. They are not at threat to anyone, at all, therefore irrelevant.

If you can't disagree without being massively downvoted then yes, its a circlejerk.

If you acknowledge it's a circlejerk, why insist on changing that? The members clearly don't care.

Because the simplest solution is most likely to be the truth

Some skeptic you are.

Once again, you proved nothing.

You guys

Dumb people exist in every sub and shills really do exist. Don't group everyone together.

I'm on the same page with a lot of what you have said here. Your not fighting this battle alone. This next point I make is more advice than anything else.

You say

Don't group everyone together.

I'll direct you to our conversation in which you gave me a lot of flack for merely asking a question, you put me a box of 'them'. The video you posted has been posted before, sometimes by a /r/conspiratard. I was not attacking you for posting it, just trying to see why you did. In my own little way trying to weed out the drivel here.

We need to stick together and not let shills segergate us

I even deleted the post and you still want to bring it up? You forced me to explain why it was posted, even though you knew. I don't know, that just sounded like you wanted to be an asshole. You can't really blame me. Every thread has a guy saying "nope, not a conspiracy, nope, nope, nope." Why couldn't we just have a nice pleasant conversation about why you think it was a coincidence?

That's fine. I'm going to make another post with 30 or so references. I see that people tend to write off each one individually without a second thought.

I used the post to illustrate a point not to re-discuss it. I didn't force you do anything, I asked. I could never know why you posted unless you state your reasons, I'm not a mind reader. I explained why I asked.

Why couldn't we just have a nice pleasant conversation about why you think it was a coincidence?

Your whole tone makes it very hard to be polite to you. You seem to be very good at attacking people without just cause. You jump to conclusions about people without no information

None of this is an attack just constructive criticism . Read our dialogues that we have had and you will see.

Do you really think calling me a hypocrite and bringing up a deleted thread is going to add worthwhile discussion in this thread? I doubt it. You want to publicly tar and feather me. If you want to continue with this pointless argument and derail the discussion in here, fine. You'll be doing it alone because I'm not wasting my time on your smear attempts.

So keep that link handy when you see me in another thread so you can smear my reputation there too and hide behind some other reason like "I'm just trying to illustrate a point."

I see I have wasted my time. I have be nothing but polite and clear.

You really need to untwist you knickers

EDIT:

I'm not actually trying to smear you in any way. You are achieving that yourself

I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But it does look like a smear campaign and it doesn't add anything of substance to this thread. I guess I'll have my answer if I see you doing anything similar to this again, or if you really are here looking for answers. I don't know. This is a really pointless conversation, isn't it?

It was supposed to be of substance to you. Maybe I should’ve PM’ed you.

I hope you find a point in what we have discussed, it may help stop you spinning round in circles and thinking everyone is attacking you.

If you're a legitimate person, don't take anything I said too seriously. This is just a topic where I expect a ton f people trying to smear my reputation, since that really is the only defense to my post. I feel that I have clearly described the existence of shills in this sub. Too many people claim nobody would waste time and resources hiring propagandists on r/conspiracy, and clearly that isn't the case, so the only defense is attacking me personally.

You really need to tailor your replies to the messages that have been written to you.

For instance this one.

Ok. Are we done, or is there some more? This really is a huge waste of time.

Not a waste of time of you have learned something

Anything else besides "You're a hypocrite and I'm a wise elder teaching you something?"

You can't be serious with this.

Nope that is all really. If you can't see what I'm saying there little else I can do to help.

And that is all I tried to do

You know people are critical, have arguments, and disagree with each other in all of those subreddits, right? Yes, they're 90% circlejerks. Any specific subreddit is going to be. But their is still dissent, and there should be.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone coming in to debate the other side. If anything, you should welcome it as a chance to show that you actually DO listen to facts and evidence.

Except that the government admits that they hire shills so it is a problem that needs to be addressed. I don't have the same rights as a paid government agent with 50 alt accounts. My comments, if detrimental to their agenda, will be drowned out so that I don't have a real voice.

If the government really controlled reddit and "your voice" they wouldn't use a method as clunky as shilling to do it, they would just use their "influence" to get reddit inc to ban this sub and all its splinters or just straight up shut down this website, they easily could have killed reddit during the /r/jailbait debacle. The fact that this post is on the front page and that you have positive karma shows that no one is trying to drown you out. Also, the majority of downvotes are from reddit's vote fuzzing, not shills, just gonna nip that one in the bud.

really? why not just co-opt the front page with corporate and military propaganda instead?

you just described 90% of the popular news and internet.

So am I entitled to my opinion of the plethora of articles that prove the government admits to hiring shills, or no? I believe the sky is blue based on the evidence. Are you going to continue arguing with me and wasting my time, or can we simply just agree to disagree?

I've laid out my argument throughout this thread multiple times and multiple ways, so there isn't much I can say. Either you agree or you don't. Neither of us (presumably) have access to the inside of military bases where they have all of their internet propaganda resources, so all we have is news articles, the government fucking admitting to it, and speculation.

unthinkers

You know, I'm so sick of the constant shill talk that I'm finally unsubbing from this stupid fucking subreddit.

Well done, LeadHelmetsBlockELF IgnoreTheShill. Yes, I know it's you.

Haha. Goodbye. This is my only account and nobody is going to miss you. Have fun ignoring reality.

I make a post about shills and you make up accusations about me "shilling for the conspiracy theorists." We really don't need you here. Later.

This is another gem thread, featuring XtortionBear.

He won't be missed.

Check out the downvote brigade on this one

Bipolarbear0, xtortionbear, belligerent_bear, bunzobear...

Another one, Nemesis6, admitting being a shill.

You simpleton. Do you really think you can fight us? Your fellow redditors are downvoting you like crazy simply for telling the truth. The only thing your little attempt at calling us out has accomplished is you being marginalized by your peers.

This is the most damning comment, ever. You can add this to your list of sources.

Also, he's the top comment on this post.

You continue your feeble little crusade. What do you hope to accomplish? I have more resources; Money, hundreds of puppet accounts, and all the time in the world to negate anything you say or do. The only reason I have not dedicated any of it against you is because I do not see you as a threat, as I alluded to my comment that you linked above. Sorry kiddo, I have bigger fish to fry, like Alex Jones or David Icke.

Alex Jones already shoots himself in the foot without having people to go "fry him". As for Icke he's in his own playing field somewhere out there. Still, comments like yours just make me laugh at the amount of time people would put in to troll others. What a sad individual you are.

Yet the truth-sayers here hang on hang on to his every word. FEMA this, Obama that. Also fluoride and Jews, right? Speaking of sad.

Yet the truth-sayers here hang on hang on to his every word

His as in who?

and Jews, right?

Wow you sound anti-semitic. Probably another one of those holocaust deniers that hang out in /r/conspiratard. Seen a few dozen of you deny it and troll other subreddits.

and all the time in the world to negate anything you say or do

I have not dedicated any of it against you is because I do not see you as a threat

Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

Even with all that time, all you've do so far is exposed yourself, defended yourself against me (even though I'm not a threat), and shown that even with money, you still prefer to use it on something as meaningless as Reddit. Do you have a life, at all?

I have bigger fish to fry, like Alex Jones or David Icke.

When was the last time something was posted here specifically about them? The fact that you target them makes them a threat to you worthy of your time. What exactly are you afraid of for them to merit your persecution?

You're a fucking joke.

Go ahead, negate.

There are different types of my kind. If you are familiar with the sub-reddit called /r/conspiratard, I can tell you that these people do our bidding for us for free. In exchange for table-scrabs so to speak, they post misinformation and lies here on Reddit. It's a mutual-beneficial relationship. It is by these people that you are not targeted, my friend.

As for Alex Jones, I can post something right now: Here's Alex Jones saying that juice-boxes are a government plot to turn people gay. Likewise, here's an example of Alex Jones ' hypocrisy in relation to David Icke. One second, he calls him crazy. The next, they're BFFs!

At the end of the day, it's just cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching; Money in the bank for us, and one step closer to... Well I'm gonna tell you that part!

You posting links about them is irrelevant. I asked for you to show me posts ABOUT THEM, IN THIS SUB, moron, since you said "I have bigger fish to fry, like Alex Jones or David Icke."

It is by these people that you are not targeted, my friend.

Then who is targeting me?

At the end of the day, it's just cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching; Money in the bank for us,

You're coming off as a troll now, not a shill. I can't imagine actual shills being this retarded, unless that is what you are trying to pass off. If that is the case, bravo.

Your persistence angers me. Consider your status "upgraded".

Fucking FINALLY.

It gets frustrating humiliating you and your friends constantly with nothing to show for it. Do I get breakfast in bed now?

I didn't say that, but ok, whatever helps you feed your probable mental health issues.

Well done, LeadHelmetsBlockELF IgnoreTheShill. Yes, I know it's you.

You don't see the irony? Seriously? No, you do see it. You're just embarrassed and won't admit to it.

waiiit are you saying that he is definitely bipolarbear0 because he has the word "Bear" in his name?

But you need proof that sandy hook didn't happen ... but you don't need proof to assume some guy with the word bear in his name is definitely that other guy with bear in his name that you hate ...

Maybe he's right, you and IgnoreTheShill are definitely the two guys creating the most drama/threads designed for drama/conspiratard material. And you're both young accounts that won't say who they used to be. Are you sure this isn't one of the most time consuming and impressive trolls to ever hit /r/conspiracy?

Because if it is I want all the praise if I turn out to be right, we will wipe xtortionbear from the record books.

waiiit are you saying that he is definitely bipolarbear0

No. Should I keep reading your comment, or is the rest stupid as well?

Please refrain from personal attacks, I was just stating my opinion.

How is it ironic that he thinks you're both the same person then?

I'm not personally attacking anybody. It was a sentence that you shouldn't have said because it's not true, therefore it's a stupid post. Nowhere did I say "he is definitely bipolarbear." I'm not wasting my time here. Troll someone else.

How is it ironic then?

See how pointless and stupid this conversation is? Neither of us will come out of this with anything of value. There were about 4 or 5 people exactly like you in that thread dragging me into pointless arguments that meant nothing. I deleted the thread to stop this idiocy.

All I did was ask you a question, you said that it was ironic that he was called bear and he accused you of being two people. How is it ironic unless he is bipolarbear? That was all I was asking.

xtortionbear: You know, I'm so sick of the constant shill talk that I'm finally unsubbing from this stupid fucking subreddit. (Notice he says "shill talk" is fucking stupid)

Well done, LeadHelmetsBlockELF IgnoreTheShill. Yes, I know it's you.

(then calls me a shill)

They have a vested interest in trying to get the minds of some subscribers here to NOT pay attention to what's really behind the curtain in this world of total and utter bullshit we live in.

Yes, it would be like me going to r/knitting and continually posting "knitting is stupid. Knit one, pearl two, who has the time? Now needlepoint: that's where the real action is...."

Etc.

There are, at most, a couple hundred active posters / users in here.

Many of them are here to mock, derail and generally shit in the punch bowl.

Most people don't realize that the other number, the subscribers, is the number of people who will potentially see the top 1 and 2 posts for the day. It goes right to all of those people's front page. So one guy sitting in a military base somewhere with 50 alt accounts can influence what all of those 200,000 people see on their front page every day. It would be stupid to assume there isn't a propagandist in here every day.

I agree. I posted something yesterday that was getting quite a bit of traction. It seems to have pressed some ones buttons because I got a very suspious PM. There are definitely people here trying to keep something buried.

What was the PM about if you don't mind me asking?

"I have some words for you. Your recent post has caused some real disruption and concern for us. You are panicking people who are best off clueless. My advice is to stop digging so deep. You might find things that are best left buried."

I find the usage of the word 'us' to be strange since this doesn't appear to be from any admin or mod. The account that sent it was created minutes before i got the message so obviously a throwaway.

Also, saying that people are 'best off clueless' alludes that there may be some truth to my post.

The whole thing is very suspicious. I messaged him asking who 'us' was and a few other questions. The only reply i got was 'the Illuminati'. Which doesn't really say much.

Want to watch Shills in action? r/911truth is teeming with them. They throw NIST around like the gospel in there.

'the childs guide to to NIST' most likley.

it is gospel to them, they have nothing else to lean on.

reality vs NIST...

more to the point, why havent they been banned?

I understand there are for sure shills out there. My only problem I find with this sub reddit is that people are so closed minded in the opposite way of most of the sheeple they claim to be against. EVERYTHING has to be a conspiracy nothing just happens. I agree there is definitely shady and outright illegal shit the governments of the world over do BUT there are also crazy people out there that just do CRAZY shit for the sake of them being CRAZY. There are shitty back room deals but there are also coincidences. And yet anyone who believes that something may have been a coincidence is blind or a shill. I ask questions in both directions just because something is presented to you here or through the main stream media doesn't mean you have to take it as gospel. Ask questions about everything and go into everything with your eyes open and your head on a swivel.

I don't actually see the problem you are describing. There are a couple idiots who occasionally call people shills for no reason, but there are plenty of people who legitimately should be called shills. There isn't any reason for them to be here if they literally don't believe any conspiracy theories and they spend all day calling people idiots, birthers, etc. I'm not saying we shouldn't have debate. In fact, that point should be obvious from my post, but a few people misinterpreted what I said.

I've had about a 50/50 take on most of my comments on here. People either seem to understand that I'm not here trying to shill but trying to get people to think and the other half just assume that since I'm asking questions about some theory as I would about any story presented I must be a shill.

I'm not sure if you saw my edit in the original post, but I wrote an example of a response that a person accused of being a shill could use that would probably nullify 95 percent of the accusations instantly. I have yet to hear anybody provide me with a reason to not use that example or a version of their own, and my suspicion is that the shills will basically show themselves as the ones who refuse to do so. I assume that they would be fired for spreading awareness like that.

Honestly I think it's kind of silly for someone to have to use some sort of canned statement to "prove" their not a shill. All someone would have to do is take a look through my comment history to realize I'm pretty much too lazy (or not active enough) to be a shill. Also it's like trying to talk sensibly to these people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

And then I wouldn't blame someone for calling you a shill. Simple as that. Shills are a problem. If we want to have actual discussions, it's just a matter of copy pasting a quick reply.

Go ahead and make up reasons for not doing it. People will continue to call you a shill because that's probably what you are. The fact that you're making up an excuse for not doing this is telling. This is the internet where everything is anonymous, so something like what I proposed is kind of necessary.

I'm just sick of people who see someone questioning EVERYTHING. Main stream or crackpot theories (which there are on here from time to time even you must admit) even though they're mixed in with those that seem legit. And they just dismiss it as SHILL and now I have to try and defend my view point. I just don't give a fuck enough to be more active in this subreddit because of it.

Someone can come up with a theory Obama is responsible for Chinese killing Lebanese babies in Russia. I say hey I don't think that's right? and instantly I'm a shill fuck it I don't have time or patience to explain the ridiculousness.

You have no idea if a paid agent is calling you a shill. There are plenty of rational intelligent people in here. Just ignore the idiots. r/conspratard has already admitted to pretending to be members here in order to discredit this sub.

If my post applies to you (doing nothing but defending the official narrative on all subjects) then I would call you a shill. If that doesn't apply to you, then this post doesn't apply to you. If, for some strange reason, you did come here only to defend the official narrative on all subjects, then I would kindly ask you to use my advice if anyone calls you a shill because they would be right in doing so.

Too many people in this thread think this post applies to them. From your tone, I don't think it does, but I don't know you.

Ok I think I misunderstood your original intention though. Sorry

I know taking someone else's advice on how to deal with idiots is probably an annoying thought, but please consider it. If enough people adopted this strategy, I think this sub could at least be tolerable. It doesn't even have to be a long reply- just something akin to what I proposed. When someone calls you a shill, it feels like an insult, and that is probably why it is going to be annoying to give them a well-thought out and nice reply back to them. But I think you should at least try it once in the future and see how it affects the person who called you a shill. I bet it would make them apologize, if the person is a decent human being that is.

How do you personally determine if someone is a shill or just disagreeing?

It would be stupid of me to respond with an answer to that question. You routinely make fun of us in r/conspiratard. Respond if you want, but I'm just going to ignore you.

I've never submitted any links there and I've made a handful of comments there that criticize you guys. I've criticized people there almost as much.

I'm here because arguing can be fun. I don't do it in bad faith so I don't know what the problem is.

You'll have to forgive me if you are a legitimate person. It is just really efficient to check the front page of a person's history and see if they are from r/conspiratard. If yes, automatically dismiss as a troll. I would say 80 percent of the time I can already tell who is from r/conspiratard just by the way they talk (or maybe I just vaguely remember the names)

Have you guys ever considered that you might be circlejerking government propaganda used to discredit conspiracy theorists? I'm not saying we are all intelligent. Stupid people exist in all areas of society.

Like a paid shill who posts clearly idiotic shit and upvotes it with his extra 50 accounts? Would that creep you out if one day you discovered you have been spending so much time over there and some of it was propaganda?

I had a pop at 'impissed' just the other day, asking him why he bothers posting in R/con threads just to disagree. Because it bothers me too why people bother to shit up the sub disagreeing with every damn thing.

I think 60-80 percent of the stuff on here is wrong, but I just don't click that stuff, or dismiss it. I have no desire to prove them wrong.

I may be wrong but, I think 'impissed genuinely likes to argue things, and as he says not in bad faith. I may be naïve tho 😉

Because it bothers me too why people bother to shit up the sub disagreeing with every damn thing.

I would agree with you if it weren't for the fact that that's the whole point of this subreddit. To look at evidence and determine the facts. The simple fact is, a lot of conspiracies have only a small amount of evidence backing them up. That is why debate and disagreement are all but required on these topics. I believe very few conspiracies, but I post here to see if there's any evidence to change my mind on a topic, or to try to convince others with my own info.

It is just really efficient to check the front page of a person's history and see if they are from r/conspiratard.

I have link karma from there......

Have you guys ever considered that you might be circlejerking government propaganda used to discredit conspiracy theorists?

Like a paid shill who posts clearly idiotic shit and upvotes it with his extra 50 accounts?

To me, the instances of both of those things are very very low. Once i saw someone saying we already knew everything Snowden said and i criticized him and I think he's wrong, but I don't think he's a shill, just a dude who's wrong on that issue.

Just thinking out loud here. (I'm sure you agree that shills exist and they are on Reddit. I believe I laid out a perfectly reasonable argument that supports that) Since shills exist, and all that would be necessary would be one person with 50 accounts (for this sub), if I was the "shill," I would attempt to guide other people into doing part of my labor. So setting up a sub and using a few alt accounts to guide the thoughts and behavior over there, then linking to specific threads over here for vote brigades, would be an obvious route for me personally if I was tasked with the job. Or maybe just partially hijacking the direction of the sub. Perhaps r/conspiratard was legitimate, but now it's just disgusting. I saw a thread about a guy whose friend became a "truther," and the top comment was "keep an eye on him, you might have to report him to the authorities because he might be crazy." Then further down I saw one with a guy telling the OP to call the police on him because he's a truther and he might be dangerous. I don't see why you would even post there.

So setting up a sub and using a few alt accounts to guide the thoughts and behavior over there, then linking to specific threads over here for vote brigades, would be an obvious route for me personally if I was tasked with the job. Or maybe just partially hijacking the direction of the sub.

I have only really paid attention to this sub and conspiratard for about 2 weeks, but that doesn't make sense to me. I can imagine someone fucking with you guys just to get a rise out of you all. Ignoretheshill comes to mind.

I saw a thread about a guy whose friend became a "truther," and the top comment was "keep an eye on him, you might have to report him to the authorities because he might be crazy." Then further down I saw one with a guy telling the OP to call the police on him because he's a truther and he might be dangerous. I don't see why you would even post there.

They're probably just exaggerating and being clownish, but even if it's serious it's not horrible, just silly/stupid. And cmon I don't judge you for commenting here, and i've seen some really awful comments. There's a comment from a few hours ago on a thread in this sub that says someone should kill obama, and there was a thread a week or 2 ago where someone said someone should blow up a vehicle near where i work. Not to mention holocaust denial.

No, it's pretty clear that they are slowly trying to implant the idea that conspiracy theorists are dangerous because they are conspiracy theorists. I mean, anyone here can simply watch the threads over there for a day or two and see it. It's kinda weird that someone from conspiratard is actually denying this, but whatever.

It's tough, and I rather not attack anyone who posts, but rather the idea that is posted.

I do wish reddit offered a "block user" feature.

Recently, the majority of my comments have been made in /r/conspiracy, so a quick look at my post history might indicate to some people I am a paid shill. But my comment karma breakdown should show that to be false.

4,649 comment karma

I think by the number of downvotes you see on this well-written and relevant post, it's clear there is an active war on critical thought by the brainwashed massed in r/conspiratard and elsewhere. These people are so hopelessly juvenile and petulant, I don't know how they function in society. They must be the most insufferable, know-it-all douchebags out there. Way to go.

I believe that to be educated one should get as many different sides of a news story as possible. So I come here for opposing views to the mass media (which I also have my own opinions in). I use these different views to help me from my own opinion. The opinions I state in different threads are questions I have or my current opinion that is always open to being changed depending on evidence.

We are in agreement. I am talking about all of the Bill O'Reileys who come in here reminding us of the official government answer to a question and do nothing but ruin conversations. I'm sure you've met them. See my posts on the "orgonite" thread. Notice how we can have a decent debate. If it was about 9/11, conspiratard would come in with all kinds of nonsense calling us tinfoilers and spewing hatred, votegaming, etc.

I am convinced that powerful people do everything in their power to ensure that the tables are tilted for their benefit. I feel this force applies in financial, legal and geo-political matters. If any of us were "born in the right bed" it would be almost impossible to see the world through the eyes of the 99%.

JFK and 9/11 were probably the root cause of hugely beneficial societal shifts for powerful people. I cannot prove these things, but the logic is on the side of the stories and evidence squelched by MSM. I also feel the Arab Spring & OWS made a huge difference in the awareness levels among the general population. The fact that TPTB are attempting to lock it down is the logical response to their perceived anarchy among the proles.

Aliens and reptilians are much harder to have a definitive feeling about. I think there must be life forms elsewhere; however, if aliens wanted this planet or it's resources, they would just take it. The technology to travel distance in space would mean obvious military strength over us.

I try to be open minded and agnostic about anything on this sub. The open debate and discussion of this sub is one of it's best qualities. There are no sacred cows. I have little faith left in the people in charge. Statism is running rampant throughout the world. Religion, military action, oppression seems to be everywhere. Slavery may have just evolved to having financial shackles on a much larger group of people.

As a species, we are doing horrible things to each other. Perhaps we always have. The communication capabilities today make awareness of this instantly possible. I know that I have two teen aged kids and I am often fearful of their future. Things are getting worse. When they are approaching 50, this world will be vastly different. I hope it will be for the better - but, most likely it will be much worse for individuals.

I do not think many come to this sub to fuck things up, although some do. Those that do this are often the last to see societal shifts; they are often paradigmic thinkers. The outcome for having a closed mind has been shown time and again through history.

David Icke and the Info Wars blow hard make the entire sub a target. It is called "contaminating the well". They may even be planted to make thinking outside the box sound silly. I really think people are looking for answers. I also think people are afraid. If you cannot support an opinion, perhaps it should be held, not posted. These are the growing pains of a unique and interesting sub.

Edits: spelling and ranting

This subreddit has 200,000 readers. The vast majority are not super active accounts. People are more likely to post to something that they very much disagree with than something that they agree with.

Here's another one: /u/HotDogsYesDoz

Assuming we all agree that shills exist, because they do, see all of these links, you aren't suspicious of a bunch of people with month old accounts, some whose only activity was in that thread alone, all flocking to one thread to tell everyone why "Cooper is a loon?" Also, the top post in r/conspiratard that day was a direct link to the Bill Cooper thread and later on they made another direct link to that thread. Anyone who was watching it knew there was a massive vote brigade going on.

Here's another one: /u/HotDogsYesDoz

Ha! What can I do to convince you otherwise? I thought we were getting along well in that other thread.

You have one page of activity on a 2 month old account. I called you out on being suspicious, and all of the sudden your activity skyrockets in the past day or so. Maybe, maybe not. Proof doesn't matter, but I do know that a real shill would not listen to this advice:

Open letter here to all people who are accused of being a shill, but really are not:

The best way to respond to that would be to say "Yes I understand that shills exist and it is a huge issue for free speech on the internet. Here is a list of links that anyone can peruse so that we can all agree that they exist and need to be exposed. Spread the information far and wide. I share these links because I am a real human being who happens to be skeptical about this one issue, but I cannot blame anyone for accusing me of this because I understand the scope of the problem. Please take this spreading of information as a good faith gesture that I am not a shill. Thank you."

You are still the best at this game. Hands down. Let's do a Skype video chat sometime, we can chat about life, and I can show you about my real job, quite unrelated to being paid to talk to you and IgnoreTheShill.

I'm on a tor browser with tape over my webcam. A real class A paranoid. Of course not.

Haha.

Anyway, if someone calls you a shill, wouldn't that response I provided be a good idea? If anything, the person you're responding to will be shocked and probably remember you as the guy "who is definitely not a shill."

Edit: silence... Why would a shill's boss allow the shill to spread information proving that shills exist and spreading awareness of them?

What the fuck dude? I though I was your man. Are you two-timing me, bitch?

It's almost as if the two of you have precisely equal powers. I love you 50/50. You are the two halves of the McDLT of my admiration.

Your account is less old than his is, does that mean you're suspicious too? I realise you're likely a NLW alt. Ignoretheshills said he has over 30 accounts, are you like him?

And if anybody who wasn't approved of by the /r/conspiracy hivemind did that they would just be insulted if they used that advice of yours. And they'd be like "aren't you just copy pasting what that 1 month old account told you to write in that thread?"

I will stick to stating that I simply disagree and I am not motivated by any kind of monetary means. 80% of the sub automatically assume you're a shill and never take it back.

Anyway, you've gotta think that people making fun of you is a much larger number than shills at this point.

I post like 10-20 times a day. Not 4 times in a month all in one thread saying the exact same thing as a bunch of other month old accounts who barely have any activity except for that same thread.

I had to delete my other account because reasons. I already explained this somewhere else in this thread. If you think that spreading information and stopping the shill namecalling dead in its tracks is a bad idea, I guess you're free to have that opinion. I never said you have to copy paste it exactly. I just think it's funny because a shill would presumably not be allowed to spread awareness of the existence of shills...Is it really that hard to do that? You would stop all those long, shitty arguments about who is a shill and who isn't. Instead, we can have a place where everyone educates each other and can build trust.

But we can't have any of that, now can we? Can't lose our shill jobs by spreading awareness.

you aren't suspicious of a bunch of people with month old accounts

Isn't your account one month old though?

Yea. I had a couple different accounts pming me with the last one. Plus I don't give a shit about my credibility and it's probably a good thing that I spread out my online presence. I'm here to talk about conspiracies and I don't think anything I say discredits the "conspiracy crowd" in any way, so you can safely assume I am a legitimate person.

Also, I post like 10-20 times a day. Not 4 times in a month all in one thread saying the exact same thing as a bunch of other month old accounts who barely have any activity except for that same thread.

I don't think anything I say discredits the "conspiracy crowd" in any way

Now hold on a second. Discredits, I agree that what you post does not discredit the community.

However, the things we all say do open us up for scrutiny and examination.

You are no exception. And people are always going to disagree with an opinion considered "outside the box". And a defense of that opinion should be anticipated by the person who posts to this sub.

Thanks for the lecture, dad.

I'm probably old enough to be your father.

Both very unlikely to be true, and a stupid thing to say in response.

I was talking about your inappropriate parochial tone.

How is my tone inappropriate? Everything I mentioned is the truth. When people post things, they should expect someone to disagree and prepare to defend their opinions. And not whine about the fact that people disagree with them.

However, the things we all say do open us up for scrutiny and examination.

Why isn't any of this logic applied when I debate you? I scrutinize you and get called names.

Because you aren't here for logical debate. And you harass people.

I most definitely am here for logical debates. I just happens that your idea of logic boils down to opinion, conjecture, insults, dismissal, standing up for the government, and the FED

Contradictions: Statement | Contradiction

And just plain obnoxiousness. All very, very shilly.

Ok, enough. I think I just lost 50 IQ points reading your comments.

Please stop harassing me and following my comments, it's creepy.

You just can't stand being exposed, can you? It's not harassment if it's the truth, as told by your own comments bitch-slapping you in the face.

You provide your own rope to hang yourself with, I just make it more evident. You only have yourself to blame.

Once again I ask that you please stop harassing me.

First and foremost shills exist but this term gets banded about too much. If you disagree or ask a question you are almost vilified for it. I have been posing here for a while now and the comments section has become a joke in many ways. We are being segregated.

The voting community need to be more active to readdress the balance. If anything is off topic downvote it, there are rules,. If we don't enforce them with given the opportunity to do so we only have ourselves to blame. Also don't down vote because you disagree, say why.

Here is the deal op. People in this sub don't want to agree with other they want others to agree with them. A kind of superior attitude. One of the main reasons I stopped posting in here. If you read this shit and worry about all of what is said in here it will make you a hatefull mean and spitefull mother fucker that no one likes.

I quickly changed after the dc shutdown and the trucker strike. I was there and at the same time reading the goddamn posts in this sub. About how the police where mistrating the protestors and how the truckers were really making a differance. Pffff was no different then the media.

The protesters were being fucked with cause they were next to the gate going into the white house. Yeah cops gonna fucm with you. Plus in here you woulda thought they had riot police in full fuck up citizen mode pfffffff there was 4 on horses and maybe 10 on the ground. They asked nicely and I mean real nice about 10 times to leave and dumbass people were spitting on them and shit. Yeah you won't hear that in here.

Plus the truckers protest was 3 semis and maybe a handfull of cars that made like 4 laps on the outterloop of the crosstown. When I saw the downright non supports but how all these mofos wanted to have change but didn't wanna get up from there keyboard I said fuck it why care if they don't.

Now I understand some wanted to due to lack of money to travel. Yeah I was one of them and I found a way cause I wanted to start change. Pfffff won't happen everyone wants to bitch and moan and groan but that don't make a damn bit of differance just makes you bitter.

I come in here from time to time to see what is going on that I didn't hear about, but I check out how liget every story is before I start to form an opinion now.

[deleted]

You are going to have to learn that there are good cops and power tripping cops. Now cops are just people like the rest of us and gotta have a job too. I am sure protesting with others woukd get them in some kinda trouble.

We all have a boss and contrary to popular belief we as citizens are not it. I have only encountered 3 dick head cops in my life and I am 34 now. I agree maybe cause I don't fuck around where I shouldn't but still. I have had the pleasure of meeting many cops.

We as citizens are fed up with shit and well cops enforce these bullshit laws so it is natural to blame them. Why act like a dick to a guy or woman doing there job. Do you act like that to anyone else like say firemen? Or even rescue workers?

How about the people that provide you with electricity? I mean it is a job just like a cop has one too. Now you wanna hold police to higher standards cause of the responsibily they have sure makes since I do to but on the flip side of the coin I relize they are human. Try to do that and it will make life easier trust me.

Now tsa fuck tsa I don't care about them.

Haters gotta hate.

if everyone in here all agreed i would be worried

I never said we should, but you already knew that. Right?

i never said you said anything - if a theory or hypothesis cannot stand up to rigorous testing then it is of no use

The longer you are into this stuff the more you realize 80% of the posts here are ridiculous bullshit written by mental patients. You are kind of a fucking asshole for assuming everyone has to agree with every crazy bullshit you say. The fact of the matter is these subjects are incredibly complex and nuanced, yet most of you hillbilly rednecks only accept simpleton answers. So fuck you for telling us we cant call out your bullshit when you fill OUR SUBREDDIT with your garbage. Take it to /r/racists or /r/weeklyworldnews

Why would you claim I ever said debate was a bad thing here? I'm not talking about that. Try reading my post?

Swearing and insults rather than intelligent points. Very convincing. Take a note how to make an eloquent argument from the OP.

this isnt a debate, its just me calling most of you stupid. This is obvious to anyone who actually understands this information. Either you get it, or you are..... stupid...

Yo, holmes, I don't shill. I keep it real, foo'.

/r/NolibsWatch

You know why. The governemnt is always watching US. That is why the revoLUTION will come SOon1!

Don't know why U got down voted. A very good answer.

Anyway, if someone calls you a shill, wouldn't that response I provided be a good idea? If anything, the person you're responding to will be shocked and probably remember you as the guy "who is definitely not a shill."

Edit: silence... Why would a shill's boss allow the shill to spread information proving that shills exist and spreading awareness of them?

It's your theory. I'm asking you- what would they stand to gain from hiring actors and faking deaths?

It's not my theory.

I thought you had some theory that the people that purported to have lost kids at Sandy Hook weren't real mourning parents but actors? No?

The theory is that these are actual parents of dead kids

So everyone you see on the news is assumed to be an actor unless it can be proven to you that they are real people. I see. Even if you can't explain a reason why anyone, anywhere would benefit from them being an actor. Uh-huh.

and they love their anagrams... adapted from gematria

Looks like you've answered who the "they" are anyways. It's all about Jewish Numerology. I hate r/conspiratard, but you know what's worse? People in /r/conspiracy that allow them to justify their existence.

without anything self-evident of a massacre

What would convince you that the shooting happened if you think everyone you see on the news is an actor?

Why do you think Jewish Numerology plays into this at all?

This is the big question you keep dodging- what would it benefit the conspirators to hire actors (exponentially increasing the chances they'll be caught) as opposed to actually doing a shooting?

I'm sure you won't answer that, because I've asked it over and over and the closest you've come is "ask them yourself" when that's what you're suggesting? It's asinine.

why do they need to be exposed?

My indication of a good argument IS being called a shill. When people make an airtight argument disporving a conspracy the default responce is to call them a shill and disregard their argument because they cannot poke holes in it. IF a "shill" is arguing for a position that is entirely false and indefensible by anyone who isn't paid then it should be trivial to debunk their arguments.

the persecution complex of this place is hilarious, and thats why I come here.

I've got my tag for you.

What reason do I have to believe they are legitimate?

Shill here, I do it because you can't handle the truth.

Isn't this just proof that you shouldn't believe anything you hear and instead seek an open discussion about it? I highly doubt that you may end up commenting back and forth with a shill, and even if you are you have the opportunity at a legitimate argument. I feel like this point just verifies the fact that questioning everything on here is incredibly important.

I even deleted the post and you still want to bring it up? You forced me to explain why it was posted, even though you knew. I don't know, that just sounded like you wanted to be an asshole. You can't really blame me. Every thread has a guy saying "nope, not a conspiracy, nope, nope, nope." Why couldn't we just have a nice pleasant conversation about why you think it was a coincidence?

That's fine. I'm going to make another post with 30 or so references. I see that people tend to write off each one individually without a second thought.

Ok. Are we done, or is there some more? This really is a huge waste of time.