Perhaps these 'science' people you speak of are simply scared that ill informed opinions about vaccines may be killing people. A very good friend of mine is a doctor. Dedicated years of his life to educating himself in human anatomy and how best to preserve life. He is of the opinion that vaccines are pretty awesome. I trust him more than Jenny McCarthy. I'm not certain that outing another persons opinion is a conspiracy. Shall you make a post about me now?

10 years of school will do that to you.

10 years of schooling in allopathic medicine will do that to you.

I'm not outing any specific person, I'm outing a behavior. This volatile attitude I received isn't scientific in nature, it's malicious, hateful, and crude, and most importantly; unscientific.

This is a post meant to identify and raise awareness on this evil concentration of hatred and fury growing within our species. It's almost like nobody understands what "live and let live" means anymore.

It's becuase you're talking out of your rear end. Every step of the process is recorded, published and posted online for peer review, why not go and read some if you're so concerned.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=vaccine

Or better yet, actually go to school, 3 years of biochem, 2 years immunology masters, 4 year phd on vaccine efficacy. Then someone might give what you write a seconds thought.

I participated in one of these trials, it was intense to experience the affects and communicate the changes. As an adult I'm equipped to do this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22895958

As a parent, I went through all the vaccinations with my children, as informed as I could possibly be. Having an immune suppressed spouse, the Neurologist, family doctor and pediatrician all factored into the equation.

We had an traumatic reaction in one instance and there's no more frightening thing than seeing a child very sick and helpless when we had been so careful.

She was 24 months old and they were telling us all sorts of scary procedures and muttering Spinal Meningitis, Rye Syndrome, Encephalitis...

This was a mere 7 hours after her inoculation and I repeated this to the ER physicians. They wanted to do a spinal tap. She was burning up. I was loosing my mind.

An older, quiet nurse was there and she came in with a bunch of ice bags and started packing our little girl down and asked the doctor if she could do a blood draw for labs.

I've no idea what was in her head or her heart but to this day I swear she saved my little girl from death, brain damage and crippling effects. She massaged my daughters feet very gently, very slowly, working up the ankles, her little legs and when she got to the upper left thigh area (injection site,) she cupped her hand over it and very slowly, gently rubbed over her stomach, in a clockwise motion, just slightly palpitating as she went around. My daughters little tiny bowels let go.

We cleaned her up and the nurse started wrapping her up head to toe in this amazing cocoon. After ten minutes she started to rouse and I started to unwind her. She was calm but aware and nursed quietly.

I have no science to back this up but my daughter is alive, well on her way in the field of medicine.

Chemistry and Neurology.

Science and medicine practiced in a lab, is life under a microscope and noble, but it isn't life or death.

Introducing a live vaccine into our family environment, with careful practiced protocols was astounding.

Quarantine. Rather nefarious and ugly.

You cannot continue to tout vaccination pell mell when we know that over prescribing antibiotics is deleterious.

Rock your degree!

I have no interest in vaccines. Sorry.

The point I'm trying to make is that men of science are supposed to be level headed, not rabid fucking animals. There's a difference between the art of science, and cult worship of 'experts'.

You have no interest in vaccines but are anti-vax.

You're giving anti-vaxers a bad name, and that's coming from someone who's higly skeptical of vaccines.

I have my own reasons for being anti-vax, I don't believe in artificial solutions. Humanity didn't live for tens of thousands of years because we're weak.

I don't care about the science behind vaccines because it's not my fight, not my problem. I believe in a natural approach. The only thing your goals and my own have in common are that we're tired of people with opposing views pushing their beliefs on us.

Whatever they put in vaccines is not my problem cause I'm not stupid enough to use them, or let anyone in my family use them, but if I can find some legitimate proof just to shut the other side up and leave me alone, I will certainly use that.

I'm glad I gave you a chance to explain yourself as you nobly did. Thankyou.

I might be crude, but I'm blunt. I honestly don't give a damn about the science behind either side. I just want people to stfu and stop harassing my family about the decisions we've made.

We shouldn't have to explain ourselves. This was our decision, we made it and people need to get over it. That's all it really comes down to.

I believe in a natural approach.

That would involve letting lots of people die or become crippled by disease.

As I've said, this is my path. My family & I will go without vaccines. You go ahead and get them if you agree with them. I don't think you should, but I'm not stopping you if you wish to.

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Lol, by naturally I mean what I put in my body.

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I don't eat processed food, period. Also, I don't eat fish due to Fukushima.

Well then i get offended when you insult the work of decades of people who have spent the time to learn.

People turn into 'rabid fucking animals' because the cult worship of 'vaccine experts' is actually leading to a resurgance in mumps, measles, polio (http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7573/823.1) etc. diseases that shouldn't still exist in the west, because we've developed vaccines.

Interesting that you say cult - if what you do isn't cult worship, then surely you can provide me with some evidence (not a news clipping, actual reputable evidence) to support your claim, because if you don't have any, then how are you any better than cult worship?

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1txqp3/since_when_are_these_science_people_becoming_so/cecn60f

See this response for my answer. It's not whether it's effective or not, I simply don't give a damn. I believe in doing things naturally and will continue to do so. Decades of people working hard or not doesn't mean anything to me.

I'm not going to just say "Hey, you know, you worked like 50 years on this little ampule, let me intravenously inject it to show my affection".

I'm afraid i don't believe you. I'm willing to presume you use artificial toothpaste with an artificial brush, see your dentist every year, take vitamin C supplements. It's likely that at some point in your life your wife/SO will have had an epidural to help with childbirth, you will have taken antibiotics for a persistent infection.

1: I try to use a toothpaste with a Sodium Bicarbonate base, usually home made. 2: I see my dentist only when I have problems. 3: I haven't taken vitamin C supplements in years 4: Yes my wife had this, but I didn't agree with it, though I didn't try to stop it. 5: Raw penicillin only (yes, I know how to make it.)

I believe in doing things naturally and will continue to do so.

Why? You realize that "natural" is just a meaningless trait that has nothing to do with safety or health, right? Strychnine is natural. So is arsenic.

Letting your broken bones heal improperly set, weak, and crooked is natural. Setting them properly and getting a cast is not.

Disinfecting and stitching up serious wounds is unnatural.

Also, if you aren't even familiar enough with vaccines to know that (unless there is some very rare exception) they're not injected intravenously, you probably shouldn't be making sweeping statements about them.

You'd think someone who has decided they know more about immunology than the scientific and medical community would at least have a grasp on the difference between an intravenous and intramuscular injection.

I didn't decide that I know more about it. I decided that I don't give a damn and won't be doing it. It's my right to do this. Think whatever you will, at the end of the day, there aren't any needles going into me or my loved ones.

That's the end of it.

Good day, sir.

You clearly do give damn though, as you obviously seem to feel there's something wrong with it.

"I don't give a damn" sounds like a code for "I believe it's wrong, but I am unwilling to actually come up with an intelligent defense of my position, or actually look into it and risk learning something that might force me to reconsider my beliefs".

May I suggest leading by example?

I am not certain that you riling up people to your anti-science cause is any more noble than what you are complaining about.

So you suggest that I let people talk down to me and berate me, then just shut up about it?

I'm not attacking anyone here, but I'm sure as hell going to call attention to the fact that it's happening to me.

and we're pointing out that the reason these people are agressive and act like assholes, is because they know that they are right.

partly because, they are actually right.

i dont think its good that they act like assholes, but vaccines are an extremely complicated technology, and when you're arguing with someone who is extremely uninformed when it comes to what vaccines actually do and how they function, it is easy to get angry.

You mean they believe they are right...

The biological mechanisms behind vaccines appear to be sound. Unfortunately, the nutjobs running the corporations that produce the vaccines value profit over human life. I am unsurprised to have discovered allegations of toxic fillers and preservatives contained in many vaccines. It also wouldn't surprise me to find that vaccines are overutilized by the health industry in place of simpler, more effective preventative measures such as diet and excercise.

yes, in this context "believe" and "know" are pretty much the same thing

Unfortunately, the nutjobs running the corporations that produce the vaccines value profit over human life. I am unsurprised to have discovered allegations of toxic fillers and preservatives contained in many vaccines.

this is very true. i trust the scientists, but i have a strong distrust of the people who run pharmaceutical companies. which kinda sucks, because if i want a high paying job with the degree i am getting, ill probably have to work for a pharmaceutical company.

as for the allegations of toxic fillers and preservatives, vaccines sometimes require preservatives in order to prevent the breakdown of the active components neccesary to make the vaccine work.

the "toxic fillers" as people call them, are often compounds which contain things like mercury. but containing mercury does not imply that they are toxic. take table salt for example, sodium is a volatile explosive metal which burns underwater. chlorine is a toxic gas which was used in WW1 in the trenches. but when you combine them, you get something that is essential for life, and is one of the most common food additives in the world, sodium chloride, better known as table salt.

be wary of any claims of "toxic fillers". if you find any such articles and are unsure of them, feel free to contact me. i'd like to look into these claims myself.

It also wouldn't surprise me to find that vaccines are overutilized by the health industry in place of simpler, more effective preventative measures such as diet and excercise.

this is more of a general thing, because diet and excercise reduces the likelihood of catching virtually all diseases, but diet and excercise wont make you immune. vaccinating everyone in order to eradicate a disease is easy, but getting everyone to diet and excercise is near impossible. if we cant even manage to eradicate non-contagious diseases related to lack of excercise and poor diet, like obesity and heart disease, then we dont have much chance of using it to eradicate contagious diseases.

I trust the few scientists whose work I have read in which I could both grasp the content vocabulary and find no claims to certainty. Perhaps unsurprisingly, no immunologist and little medical literature at all falls into this category.

I understand that preservatives extend the shelf-life of many vaccines; that many factors affect toxicity; that what amounts to a toxic dose varies between individuals; that molecular structure usually precedes elemental composition in determining a substance's volatility (except perhaps in radioactive cases? I have now wandered into the realm of my ignorance; let's back up)

I don't know much about modern vaccines but I do suspect a lot about the people who lobby for, sell, and administer them. I also know a fair deal about diet and excercise, herbal remedies, and the body's natural defense mechanisms.

Which is why I am going to correct you:

diet and excercise reduces the likelihood of catching virtually all diseases,

Aye, they do.

but diet and excercise wont make you immune.

Ahem. Let's back up to that first claim... "diet and exercise reduces the likelihood of catching all diseases."

No. Isolation and disinfectants reduce the likelihood of catching all diseases. Diet and excercise ensure that you're body has all the energy, nutrients, and resources to maintain a healthy, fully functioning immune system; an immune system capable of catching, studying, and producing antbodies to vanquish any and all diseases that a healthy person might encounter while eating foods in a social environment that they bicycled to.

Isolation and disinfectants, or rather the consequent avoidance of all diseases, put a body in a precarious position should it ever be introduced to a disease laden environment. Basically Bubble Boy should have died when he came out the bubble because he had no antibodies and the common cold is everywhere.

vaccinating everyone in order to eradicate a disease is easy, but getting everyone to diet and excercise is near impossible.

Egads! I'm done talking to you. No I'm not. Let's just throw in the rest of your quote...

if we cant even manage to eradicate non-contagious diseases related to lack of excercise and poor diet, like obesity and heart disease, then we dont have much chance of using it to eradicate contagious diseases.

OK. Reflect on the information I just shared about how the immune system works (which is actually how vaccines work, btw) and rethink what you've claimed.

Mk, now... Vaccinations inject weakened or dead viruses into the bloodstream so that healthy immune systems can produce antibodies to lessen the likelihood of severe symptoms upon a later, stronger, inadvertent exposure to the virus.

I think vaccines can be demonized because of their overadministration. Injecting a weakened or dead virus into a person with a weakened immune system could produce severe symptoms.

Vaccinating everyone effectively would only seem possible if we had worlwide accessible healthcare. Diet and excercise can be done by everyone and really is only a problem in Westernized countries with their high-calorie industrial monoculture agricultural products with thier nutrient imbalances. Aboriginal tribes that haven't been fucked over into slaves and refugees have remakably diverse diets and overwhelmingly muscular builds.

I'm going to back up now to the thing you mentioned about your distrust of the pharmaceutical companies. You do know that they fund a majority of both the public and private studies, as well as the predominant universities, and they own the predominant laboratories. They are lining the pockets of many scientists, not just that though. In a culture such as ours, going against the consensus can and will cost you your job, your life, and your family.

If you are getting a science degree, might I beg you to find work in a field related to growing food in a polyculture setting? Permaculture needs more scientists to garner the trust of that dogmatically scientific, liberal public that is oh-so-skeptical of anything that hasn't been published, peer-reviewed, publicly scrutinized, redesigned, republished, buried in soft peat for several years and sent to Dagohba to study the force with a small frog.

While it may be easy to get angry, it's not correct to get angry. It doesn't help you make your point any better, and when you ridicule someone, they stop listening most of the time. I'm personally fond of vaccines, but vaccination fear dates back to its inception in this country, and I could also see how a vaccination push could be abused if we had particularly nefarious people in control of it. It's no secret that we found information of bin Laden by offering vaccinations in his suspected location. For me, I just have to trust that someone along the supply chain would do their job correctly and do the right thing if something was fishy.

i agree 100%. the only time anyone has any right to get angry about people refusing vaccines, is when they are the parents of a child who is physically unable to take vaccines, and is put at risk by other parents not vaccinating their children.

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So, where is the peer-reviewed tested proof of the cure?
The reason people trust scientists in their field of knowledge is because they have dedicated their lives to what ever calling they are working on. Educating themselves for decades to further the knowledge of mankind. But also because scientists have to get their work peer-reviewed scrutinized and tested by people who WANT to find a flaw in the paper. Not because they want to ruin it, but because they love it and want to find the truth.
To quote Henri Poincaré:
“The scientist does not study nature because it is useful; he studies it because he delights in it, and he delights in it because it is beautiful. If nature were not beautiful, it would not be worth knowing, and if nature were not worth knowing, life would not be worth living.”

Regarding the "profound lack of education and knowledge", what do you mean by that?

edit: grammar

[deleted]

First of all: Peer-reviews are usually anonymous or independent of the author. So they have nothing to loose now have they?

Scientist: "A person who is trained in a science and whose job involves doing scientific research or solving scientific problems"
I am not invoking that they have to be university bound or anything. Just that usually that is where you find them, because it is where it is at.

Is science a religion? What is your justification for this? Are you currently working in the field of science? Have you worked in the field seen how much work is put into it? Science is build upon verifiable evidence and reasoning. EVERY aspect of any scientific field is up for testing, and is so tested many many times before they can even be qualified or even considered for the masses.

Where is your evidence for science being about money? What about the countless upon countless of people trying to unravel the true nature of nature? Like Richard Feynman, who only sought exactly this. I know little about medical scientist but I am certain that there are people like Feynman in medicine as well. Dedicated hardworking people.

Why is science contradictory? Because that is how it works.
You have a standing theory of how the universe works build upon the evidence one can gather from nature. Fast forward some years, someone will inevitably have either collected more data with faster/better equipment, or with a broader range of data or found a new way correlating the data from earlier.
See Albert Einstein, he came out with a HIGHLY controversial theory contradicting everything known about time and light. But the theory he put forth predicted things never seen before, so they tested it out. New data comes in some years later confirming this, but is takes years of contradiction and testing and verification to put it in motion. Today, what was profound and earth shattering in the world of physics is taught to first year physics students, Special Relativity, but we were not indoctrinated with it, we actually measured time dilation and length contraction. Comparing the data with various theories. This is how science works. One tests and verifies the data and everyone can participate. If they so wish. It is not a religion. It only shows a lack of understanding of how the world of science works.

I think the reason people get upset is because they get frustrated with people, like Richard Feynman puts it:
"See, I have the advantage of having found out how hard it is to get to really know something, how careful you have to be about checking the experiments, how easy it is to make mistakes and fool yourself. I know what it means to know something and therefore, I see how they get their information and I can't believe that they know it."

The Rothschilds or Rockefellers (I forget which) demonized homeopathy whilst simultaneously financing allopathy in the early 1900's.

The Rockefellers.

You say this like it's a bad thing. Homeopathy has been disproven over and over through the years.

Anytime I hear the words "proven" or "disproven" I become highly suspicious that I am speaking with a fully-fleged believer. Anyway, a quick wiki confirmed my suspicion that I misspoke. I should have said "alternative" or "traditional" medicine.

The axioms of homeopathy include "like treats like." Vaccination seems eerily similar to homeopathy. Small doses of weakened/dead viruses will help the body produce antibodies to prevent the severity of future infections.

Herbal remedies, acupuncture, energy work, hypnotic healing, and placebos all fall under the broader category of traditional or alternative medicine. None of these have been disproven in their efficacy but science remains largely ignorant of their mechanisms.

Herbal remedies were the original basis for modern medicine, and so science doesn't remain "ignorant" in this regard, but has used it as a foundation from which to build. As a result they're considerably more knowlegable in this regard than the original practitioners of herbal medicine.

Acupuncture has been shown time and time again to be no better than a placebo.

"Energy work" is complete bunk.

None of these have been disproven in their efficacy but science remains largely ignorant of their mechanisms.

Scientific reviews have concluded that there is no evidence supporting clinical efficacy. Relying on the placebo effect for healing is dubious in the extreme.

Herbal remedies are the basis for modern medications. They are unpatentableable and inexpensive, yet effective.

Acupuncture works regardless of which system you are using and/or where you stick the needles. It's efficacy relies more on the subject's suggestibility and the acupunturist's bedside manner. Acupuncture can work so well, in fact, that it has been used as anaesthetic for open heart surgery.

Energy work/hypnotic healing/faith healing all work by the same mechanisms as acupuncture i.e., suggestibility. The simple fact is "it works if you believe in it." I'm not going to ascribe magical properties to the will but the mind is a powerful thing.

Jackasses in the money making industry demonized these practices and created a culture of fear and doubt that effectively shattered the efficacy of these practices.

The world is a mighty bit more complicated than the materialists would have you believe.

Your friend kills people for a living, for profit. Nice people you hang out with.

Go ahead and berate me, I don't care. Vaccines kill people and mostly kill or seriously damage babies. When the truth comes out, and it will, your friend and his ilk are in deep trouble.

You know the computer you are using contains conflict minerals and people were likely killed or oppressed to get them.

The `holier than thou' argument is really meaningless in terms of a debate.

I suspect you are just trolling.

Either way, vaccinations are not something you are qualified to have an opinion on and if you were, there is no way you would be against them. When you disagree with someone on this you are disregarding a hundred years of medical science in favor of your uneducated opinion. If you have children you are endangering their lives because you have an "opinion".

What is dangerous is having a large group of unvaccinated children.

it's the fight between the smaller part that wants to let humanity survive and the larger that wants the people to live.

So it's a moral thing, so no one other than (a) god (so no one or nothing) can judge.

It's really not a moral thing, it's an education thing.

That's true: you think the way you were educated.

But that's not the point: Only because you think that every single individual human being should have been vaccined is important (so that everyone is healthy), doesn't mean that the survival of the human race itself is as important as that.

Today we are educated more or less by the we want it: you go to school, know what your interested in and later study it in university. We have public places where we can get information like libraries and ofcourse the internet. So in a way we judge things by our natural instinct: moral; because we have a free mind.

This is how most people in the westerized culture live. The Individual plays an important role here. So it is therefore important for these kind of people to have every person healthy.

The others who just think differently see it differently. In communities during the ice age where food could become very sparce and hunger could fall on the tribe the oldest members would starve so that the young ones could live. People that think this way today are ofcourse of a much lesser number.

That's was what I meant under the conflict between letting humanity survive or the people.

It's still an education thing.

You can try and spin it anyway you want, but if people are educated on viruses and vaccines they will easily see the benefit vaccines provide.

And if they're educated on the inner workings of the for-profit "health"care industry, they will easily see the danger of injecting unidentified substances into their bodies.

You didn't read my point... One thing you need to realize is why some people think differently than others. You can't say it's just an educational thing! Tell me why you think they are wrong!

They are wrong because the evidence says so. The arguments used for not getting vaccines are never based on fact, but instead opinions.

If someone thinks 2+2=5, then they are clearly wrong. Same goes for immunisation. The benefits far outweigh the risks by many orders of magnitude. If kids were dropping off dead all the time then I could agree with being sceptical, but the reality is you have better chance at winning the lottery then you do seeing complications from a vaccine

If these vaccine deniers actually went and educated themselves on vaccines they too would clearly see the benefits.

Thankfully I live in a state, within a country that has made it compulsory for children to be immunised if they attend school.

Evidence for what?? That vaccines cure certain diseases? Yes that I understand and so do others. But it's not the question here. Different people think morally different to others. I wasn't asking for the truth. I was trying to make clear to you that if you want to change the way people think you will also need to keep in mind that it is not only knowledge you need to change but also moral. And Reddit won't be able to r/changemyview someone denying vaccines in the way they are doing it now, like in the OPs comments, full of hate.

We can't tell some tribe that vaccines will cure them selves so that they can live a happy life. They have a totally different view of life. For them it is the survival of the own tribe by us the individual. There are always odds we will never reach 100%.

I mean in this post we're talking about why people are getting mad about vaccine deniers!? And you just want to say vaccines are good (I'm not denying anything), which is off topic in this case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WQtRI7A064

I rest my case.

He is talking about reducing carbon emissions and someone put some words on the screen. I have watched that whole talk. To propose he wants to kill off large numbers of people is stupid.

I honestly think you need to reevaluate your sources of information

"One of these numbers is going to have to get pretty low to zero"

He's clearly talking about population, as you can hear the obvious laugh from the audience. And also he says "If we do a REALLY good job with vaccines, medicine, and reproductive services we can drop that down to 5 (billion)".

What the mind doesn't want to accept, neither shall the eyes see, nor the ears listen. You're in denial, Bongpig.

Too much kool-aid, appeal to authority much?

How the hell can you people live with yourselves? It's disgusting.

What's disgusting is that you consider that tripe a form of communication.

So only qualified people are allowed to discuss vaccines, and they're unqualified if they disagree with them?

You've made your stance very clear. No further comments.

You can discuss it all you want, but if you want to defend your opinion you need to be able to defend your position using logic and facts and you can't, not because your are 'unqualified' but because you don't have any logic or facts to back up your opinion, you just have an opinion.....and you know what they say about opinions.

If you don't want further comments because they are against your opinion, why ask the question?

I really don't need to do anything to defend my opinion other than say "I will not, and nobody has permission to vaccinate myself or my child(ren)". It's as simple as that.

I don't need to ask anyone for permission.

Thats fine, but don't act all surprised when people get angry at your ignorance.

That's not acceptable. People have no right to be angered by my personal life choices. I'm not beating my wife or child, I'm not an imminent threat to anybody near me, nor is there an imminent biological threat anywhere near me or my loved ones either.

Getting angry that I've chosen not to vaccinate is the same thing as me getting angry because someone got an abortion. Do I think it's murder? Sure do.

Am I going to abuse and harass them because they disagree? Nope.

Getting angry that I've chosen not to vaccinate is the same thing as me getting angry because someone got an abortion

That is not the same by any stretch.

Either way, I have better things to do then teach you about immunology. I just hope your kids don't have to suffer for your ignorance.

You don't worry about my children. They'll be just fine.

And you're right, those subjects are not the same thing. Abortion is deliberate murder of a developing human, whereas denying vaccines is not murder by any stretch of the definition.. Shockingly, the majority of people who support one also support the other.

You don't worry about my children. They'll be just fine.

Penn & Teller has a great analogy at the start of this episode.
But then again, they are on the wrong side of it, right?

Abortion is a choice a woman can take, and it is up to her alone to choose whether or not she wises it or not. She is not endangering anyone, there is no scientific evidence of the unborn being harmed because it have no sensory organs or ways to perceive the world, these will develop yes, but they are not present at abortion.
What there is scientific evidence for is that unvaccinated groups tend to endanger themselves and people around them who otherwise could not get the vaccination in the first place, like leukemia patients or very young babies. So yeah, there is that...

I guess you've never heard of Kermit Gosnell, but thanks for proving my initial point that people who support 1 usually support both.

Btw, speaking of Leukemia, perhaps you've heard of Merk Pharmaceuticals? I suppose you're completely aware that one of their leading scientists, and one of the most world renowned vaccine engineers, admitted putting a Leukemia causing virus into the polio vaccine.

But that's not evidence or anything, right?

I am neither against or for abortion, I think it is a free choice that a woman can choose for her self, what I, you, or society thinks has NOTHING to do with HER freewill to choose. So your point stands unproven. I simply accept the right to exercise free choice.

Now, moving on. I cannot see the reason to read about Kermit Gosnell. Moving on.

A quick search around shows that it might have been contamination. But I do not have time for this right now, might look into it later this evening. But the analogy that Penn & Teller uses still is in affect in this case, if it was a contamination.

If you viewed the link I had sent you, one of the chief virologists in the world admitted to have knowingly distributed the Leukemia causing virus via Polio vaccine.

As for Kermit Gosnell, you were saying how abortion involves disposal of the 'fetus' before the cognitive functions are working.Well, Kermit Gosnell was doing late term abortions which resulted in women dying, 'live abortions' (meaning the baby fucking came out screaming with an arm, and/or leg, and/or half a fucking torso missing.)

You talk about how humane this is, and how it's a womans choice, but there's no difference if you kill an unborn baby or a born one. Murder is still murder. Ending a human life, or what is in the process of becoming one is the same damn thing.

Lastly, you might look smart for your facebook friends, but unless you stop dismissing true facts because they don't fit with your paradigm, you had better prepare for a couple rude awakenings in life.

Lastly, you might look smart for your facebook friends, but unless you stop dismissing true facts because they don't fit with your paradigm, you had better prepare for a couple rude awakenings in life.

Wow.

You submit an admission of intentional vaccine contamination from a well-respected immunologist and somebody responds with "I don't have time for this."

WTF? They've got time to argue hyperbole till the cows come home but no time to do a little research... This is the kind of "consensus" dogma you're complaining about.

Future generations won't need abortions. The vaccines will render them infertile before puberty.

Be careful, they might downvote you for all that common sense.

Welp, if any want real world experience, I was foolish to get the Gardasil series. 7 years later, I've been diagnosed with endometriosis and prolly infertile.

I'm very sorry to hear that. That's such a terrible affliction, my mother used to be one of these ball-and-chain vaccine types and she also came down with Endometriosis. She had it for 2 years before they removed everything except her ovaries (for hormonal purposes).

I hope for your sake this isn't the case. Nobody deserves this. It is planned, however. This is deliberate. This article straight on the UN website talks about deliberately reducing the population, and this video shows Bill Gates deliberately discussing population reduction via vaccines.

My half sister has had it since puberty, so I was always aware and asked when getting PAPs or ultrasounds. Before the series, my doc had approved me for family planning. My sis has had everything but her ovaries removed too, told me it changed her life in regards to pain. I'm going to attempt conceiving once more after some serious diet, exercise and detoxing. If that fails, welp, there's millions of foster kids looking for love.

Just make sure you pay attention when they come trying to poke your kids or foster kids with needles. Again, I'm very sorry you had to experience such a terrible thing, the best you can hope to do now is prevent your kin from undergoing similar trauma.

My thoughts are with you. I hope you do succeed in having another child.

I can't believe we're getting downvotes for having a civil conversation. Idk what I'd do about vaccines for kids. There's fear if you do or don't!

You're right about that, but let me tell you, they don't want discussion. If you're anti-vax, they are deliberately out to fuck up your day just based on the pretense alone.

He certainly did. Conceit such as his certainly pays dividends.

It's just a narrative that's being pushed. Vaccines are big money. Most of what you see online isn't literally shills, but people who are fed talking points on skeptic blogs and other websites. That is where the bulk of the "shilling" occurs. They feel like they are literally saving lives by talking down to you, and they also get to feel smarter than you, so this get's addicting. It's free shilling done by unwitting victims who get high by talking shit online. The high is their payment.

But the guy who made this thread...http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/1tuqcq/i_wrote_a_thing_comments/ might actually be a shill. Notice how he can spread his talking points easily and how easily other people adopt them for copy/pasting. Random people just take the narrative and spread it on Facebook and wherever else so people think they are the "smart friend." Really, they're just useful idiots.

Another narrative that's being pushed through is conspiracy theorist = paranoid schizophrenic. They want to have a blanket label for us to stop dissent and keep the next generation of teenagers from adopting the current awakening that the now 20-35 years olds have had. Little Jimmy, you might need to go to the hospital for talking like that. You sound like a paranoid schizophrenic.

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A person should have the ability to respectfully decline the offer to be vaccinated. Everyone (my opinion, but I won't force anyone into anything) should get a few of the major vaccines (by their own choice, or parents choice) spread throughout their childhood, but definitely not forced on them when they are newborns under the threat of a nurse calling CPS on the parents. That tyrannical behavior makes people trust you even less. (yes this does happen.)

You're going to use an argument from authority and I will respectfully decline adopting it as legitimate. I don't trust governments, corporations, or the scientists who work for them. Period. I know how easy it is to skew data. Anyone who has taken a few statistics classes knows this. Sorry. The corporations running the show have proven themselves to be extremely incompetent over and over. Nothing they say should be taken seriously without heavy skepticism.

So get on with calling me a genocidal maniac because I believe in free choice. I've seen it a thousand times, so just get it over with.

i agree that everyone should have the right to refuse to be vaccinated.

but that is because i am a libertarian, i believe everyone should have the right to smoke weed and take meth if they want to.

in other words, if people want to do things which are harmful to their health then nobody should have the right to say that they cannot do those things.

you're not a genocidal maniac because you beleive in free choice, you're just a bit strange, because you honestly beleive fuckwads like jenny mcarthy who that vaccines cause autism and shit like that.

jenny mcarthy isnt an immunologist, and she hasnt gotten a university degree in immunology (which is the first fucking thing anyone should do if they actually gave a shit about the truth) so her opinion means absolutely fuck-all to me.

when i want advice on cars, ill ask a mechanic.

when i want advice on vaccines, ill ask an immunologist.

you have every right to refuse vaccinations. i just want to point out how dumb it is to risk your life and health based on the dumbshit claims of a washed up actor who cant accept that its her own body's fault that her son is autistic. (vaccines do not cause autism. pre-natal hormones of the mother interfering with the baby's development are what causes autism)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hpv-vaccine-gardasil-voluntarily-recalled-due-to-glass-shards-in-some-vials/

A total of 743,360 vials are included in the recall, but only about 10 may contain the shards, Merck estimated, which are small enough to go through a needle.

So they recalled three quarters of a million doses to protect 10 people. It seems like your attempt to label vaccines / their manufacturers as dangerous backfired.

Yes! Its the "skeptic" sites that are the shills. The "skeptic" community goes to a site called "skeptic(something or other).com" and then believes it without question because hey it says "SKEPTIC" in the title so they must be legit. Its like going to Honest Al's Used Cars and saying well he couldn't rip me off it says honest right there in the title! There is a large amount of people who think they are smart and think they are intellectual but are actually just buying into Sciencism, a belief structure built around Science and its expert(priest) class. This is all a product of late 90s early 2000s Bill Nye style children's programming that got all of the kids on board then who are adults now.

A good way to predict what is coming in the future is to watch children's programming.

Agreed, and that was a hilarious analogy. Show me a skeptic site that's shitting on HSBC bank, or James Clapper, or Obama's continuous lying, etc. In the private sector we should see skepticism of every major corporation that keeps selling dangerous products that they first claimed are safe. Vioxx, Contaminated haemophilia blood products, etc. Those aren't real skeptic sites. They are skeptical of a select few things that they are told to be skeptical about.

Yeah, I'm aware, I still believe it's disgusting how people can get on like this though. It's almost like they have hatred for everyone, and they merely only put up with people who share their opinions.

So of course we must trust our good and faithful government in whatever they would like to forcibly inject into us.

Nice.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=327_1195303011

edit,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfqpZqEP6gg

In the dark ages, you probably would have been not just ridiculed, but put to death for questioning the practice of doctors performing bloodletting. Mockery and contempt are not the traits of brilliant minds.

Remember how the police once behaved before they started wearing black and started driving the black death mobiles? I'd like to propose the science people start wearing black lab jackets. I think it would be more appropriate at this point. By the way the police are now always right regardless of the facts or the law now just like the white jackets. They are right because they say they are.

I'm not sure what your rant has to do with the original talking point.

Shame about that. I can't say I've experienced much of it. I came across a few of those black suits while I was still in the US, but I left years ago.

Things aren't the same on the outside. Sure, the riot cops exist in all countries, but out here most police (a title they've genuinely earned) won't beat your head in or shoot you for looking at them wrong, at least where I live.

As I've said, this is my path. My family & I will go without vaccines. You go ahead and get them if you agree with them. I don't think you should, but I'm not stopping you if you wish to.

I guess you've never heard of Kermit Gosnell, but thanks for proving my initial point that people who support 1 usually support both.

Btw, speaking of Leukemia, perhaps you've heard of Merk Pharmaceuticals? I suppose you're completely aware that one of their leading scientists, and one of the most world renowned vaccine engineers, admitted putting a Leukemia causing virus into the polio vaccine.

But that's not evidence or anything, right?

Be careful, they might downvote you for all that common sense.