More and more I get the feeling that the ability for the Reddit community to control what content gets promoted is an illusion, and it appears to be by design.
123 2013-12-29 by [deleted]
We have mods, but they appear to be for show. They are either co-opted or just sit around and don't resovle any issues. I haven't been witness to any community requests that have actually been fulfilled by a moderator. If I am wrong on this, I welcome any evidence to the contrary.
When voting on a submission, up or down, it is impossible to see the users behind the activity. Impossible unless you are an actual site admin where you can view a user and track each and every vote cast. Seems like profile building to me. This prevents the community from identifying problematic users and bots.
When voting actually does work for a controversial submission that receives site-wide exposure, it gets removed. Blatant censorship. We see this every single day.
Quality content is easily buried by submission spam or down-vote brigading. Every day excellent content gets buried beneath a pile of garbage. There is no way to bump a post back into the spotlight; simple functionality that has existed on community forums for decades. This ensures that once a post is buried, it stays buried.
You can't get support for a submission by linking it in other places as it is accused of 'brigading'. This is total bullshit and is completely contrary to the purpose of this community -- to share information. You won't find any decent place on the internet that behaves in this manner because the jerk-offs who pay to have their content marketed and advertised will cry about it. Someone paid good money to have that submission placed here and they'll be damned if the serfs interfere with their traffic generation -- they have a ROI to worry about.
Shadowbanning is the most fucked up practice I have ever heard of regarding internet communities. When you can't be banned because you haven't commited a legitimate violation they will silence you in this manner. They know if you were to be banned for a non-offense you would pitch a fit and draw more attention to the issue and gain support from the community. Enjoy talking to yourself, sockpuppets and shill accounts.
Illusion of control. Illusion of democracy. There are plenty of reasons why there are no advertisements on this site and none of them have to do with our best interest.
68 comments
24 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
13 thegreenwookie 2013-12-29
Don't use irregardless, not a word, delete from vocabulary. It's regardless
2 redditeditard 2013-12-29
GTK.
2 solidwhetstone 2013-12-29
This might surprise you but it actually is a word.
FTA:
0 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2013-12-29
Or irrespective.
0 startup-junkie 2013-12-29
or 'inflammable'
-11 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
5 4to2 2013-12-29
He's right, though. There's no such word as "irregardless".
5 [deleted] 2013-12-29
That's from a dictionary. You can also "google it".
Case closed.
1 Vdebs 2013-12-29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJ-OK4jiSY
3 [deleted] 2013-12-29
Dear Sir, that cartoon character was truly hilarious, but... I don't express my opinions about using the word, I'm only pointing out that the word "irregardless" exists in culture and it's included in any decent dictionary. I also don't even try to debate the meaning of the word. Savvy?
-2 Vdebs 2013-12-29
it does exist in culture
its just letters, it exists if u want it too
irreardls
0 joseph177 2013-12-29
In all fairness words are created in exactly this manner. This shouldn't invalidate his original point.
3 thegreenwookie 2013-12-29
I'm dealing with a bad-ass honey badger...my apologies good sir. I admire your not giving a fuckness. Irregardless, still makes you sound like a shlub and not taken seriously.
2 dsprox 2013-12-29
If you're not willing to consider what a person is saying, especially when it's correct, because of a use of a "wrong word" or grammatical or spelling error, you are a dick.
2 woodsywoods 2013-12-29
Yeah but you make a decent point and then you say a made up word and your point suddenly seems less credible. It's important.
6 totric 2013-12-29
the only way for a website like reddit to work is to not have mods, i dont understand why subreddits have rules or anything like that. if the only way for communism to work is by making all people equal, then why would they have mods?
4 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
-2 Zebraton 2013-12-29
Actually the USSR was a totalitarian socialist state, according to them. They hoped [1] in the future to be able to transition to an actual communist state, when the people had been re-educated sufficiently.
[1] For various definitions of "hoped" of course.
2 TheWiredWorld 2013-12-29
Calling themselves socialist was propaganda.
1 Vdebs 2013-12-29
soviet russia under stalin/lenin and china under mao is not communist
not in any way
true communism, as /u/nighthawk1961 noted, has never been put intro practice
1 alllie 2013-12-29
As a commie that's BS.
1 Piracy_Is_Awesome 2013-12-29
I was happy using usenet / newsgroups but everybody moved to reddit.
Usenet does not have mods for most groups.
Google groups was good for a while.
At least on usenet you knew you couldn't be banned or deleted , just ignored on an individual basis.
1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
I like to think they were ment to keep trolling away, not to censor content. There's although one flaw - power corrupts.
4 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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1 just_an_ordinary_guy 2013-12-29
This is what I gathered as well. The information posted by climate change deniers always seems to come from very sketchy sources, with very little actual science used to come to the conclusion.
1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
0 inbeforethend 2013-12-29
I mean, it's like banning the Westboro Baptist Church from your private religious debate. Why let nut jobs waste your time?
-4 cthompson07 2013-12-29
I stopped reading after you said "irregardless"
3 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
1 cthompson07 2013-12-29
No, not really.
-11 Conspirologist 2013-12-29
It really looks the way you said, here is an article about Reddit:
http://www.judeofascism.com/2012/06/jewish-owned-mass-media-behemoth.html
21 sidewalkchalked 2013-12-29
"Jewish bankers and money-worshiping elites have togther betrayed Western peoples for centuries"
Seriously? seriously?
This is bullshit, dude. I can hate assholes in this world without becoming one myself. It's almost like you want us to look like idiots.
I'm downvoting this for being a shite source on the basis of assuming things based on race or ethnicity. I don't want anyone judging me like that and I'm not gonna judge another human like that.
Want to convince me? Figure out a more civilized way to do it.
Edit: This is especially douchey in light of the fact that there are legit concerns about the Israeli government which will now be painted with the same brush of "dipshit ideas" based on you posting it and the hayseeds who upvoted it.
You do more to help the people in conspiratard with this trash as any mod did.
Kindly suck my ass, all of you. You're an embarrassment.
2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
2 ForAHamburgerToday 2013-12-29
Holy cow, does he talk about anything besides Jews and Zionism?
-10 [deleted] 2013-12-29
http://np.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/1tybw0/wherein_a_rconspiracy_member_links_to/
14 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2013-12-29
It's almost like certain admins realized they could setup PR firms, hire mods as consultants, and sell brand awareness/image control to clients.
8 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
6 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2013-12-29
You did a good job detailing the reverberations users encounter on a micro level as a result of the large scale problem.
6 [deleted] 2013-12-29
In my opinion as a programmer, there is no other reasonable explanation for why there are critical errors in the voting algorithm that allow for the easy gaming of major subreddits, and why Reddit refuses to fix the obvious flaw (if anyone hasn't seen this I will gladly dig up the links, but it's common knowledge - it essentially allows any negative voting in the first few minutes to "hyper-bury" a post).
I also think that beyond it being used as a platform for companies, it's also being heavily used and targeted by the intelligence community for the sowing of disinformation.
This IMO, is why you see certain "pro-government" "pro-spying" "pro-torture", "support the troops", "GWB wasn't such a bad guy, I'd love to have a beer with him" threads and sentiments in some of the default subreddits (/r/aww is actually one of the targets that is a little more obvious given how much these threads and comments stick out from the bulk of the posts which are of baby animals).
Edit: Also, to disabuse some potential confusion regarding the super glaringly obvious voting flaw that allows super easy gaming of Reddit's information and what gets to the top, I'd like to point out that
1) This is not some hyper complex algorithm. It's a simple, basic math calculation using regular grade-school arithmatic (albeit with variable numbers, but that is academic - you simply sub in the correct values).
2) The flaw is not hidden or obscure in any way. It is very basic, very obvious and many many programmers have pointed this out. It is almost certainly an intentional flaw due to how extremely simple the calculation is and the actual end effects.
3) This is not tin-foil hat stuff. This is simple mathematically provable programming logic. It's not a matter of opinion. You can verify that these things operate in a certain fashion, and that the result of this calculation causes the errant behavior that allows extremely trivial gaming of Reddit.
4) This flaw carefully does not negatively affect the rest of the functioning of Reddit's voting system - this is anomalous because bugs do not typically have such isolated behavior and can have many unintended effects.
I will say that the (intentional) flaw, while obvious and simple, is also relatively subtle in that a cursory glance/skim over the code would probably not alert most programmers to the issue. That said, once it comes to the attention it is easily identifiable and very obviously a huge flaw.
I've been programming professionally for 10+ years, and years before that as a hobby. The mentioned flaw is intentional.
5 cuckname 2013-12-29
I love this sub reddit. If you thought 2013 was a good year for awareness, 2014 is the year we get organized
2 GodofTomorrow 2013-12-29
true story, and i am so fuckin ready.
1 pleaseclarify 2013-12-29
pretty logical step for a greedy person that believes they can get away with it
1 joseph177 2013-12-29
Don't forget about the datamining opportunities, we all subscribe to subs that accurately paint a picture of our profile. Throw in our comments and I'm certain you can profile anyone.
11 Conspirologist 2013-12-29
It looks like the main problem with this site is the voting system. It is already a well known fact that voting is just bullshit. On regular forums the more replies the OP gets, the more popular the thread gets and therefore higher the thread gets on the first page.
What we have here is just some sad game for retarded losers, who are constantly clicking on the bloody downvote button. Nobody is able to knwo why the hell the OP was downvoted, because there is no need to explain it.
If you ask around people who develop software for forums, or users, the majority will explain to you that only a retard would implement such a useless voting system, because it endangers poster completely because of the trolls.
7 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
3 thegreenwookie 2013-12-29
Came here to say this and elaborate upon the voting system but damn if you dudes don't already have it. I'll expand on the voting though.
When you have zealous people in the world with a website that allows multiple (if not indefinite) numbers of usernames per IP address. You have people that will abuse this to make their opinion popular and downvote disagreement. It only take a few negative votes to sway an entire swarm of less informed.
5 [deleted] 2013-12-29
And there's this.
2 Conspirologist 2013-12-29
Exellent piece of information. I was already suspecting something like that on my own, and I am happy somebody was able to expose it.
3 ugdr6424 2013-12-29
I've tried to push for mandatory comment with each downvote in the past. I get a lot of "that's a good idea", but it never rw2 goes anywhere after that.
1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
0 ugdr6424 2013-12-29
Wait. You know that SWS stepped off the modteam and we gained three or four top notch users as new mods, right? Did the discussion you are referring to involve them?
-1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
0 ugdr6424 2013-12-29
Does the aggregator include the new mods? I ask because if the code pulls the modlist from the html as opposed to the reddit API it may not pull the mods on the "show the rest of the mods", or whatever it is, page.
-1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
0 ugdr6424 2013-12-29
Don't most mods comment without the mod tag, unless they're giving warnings, instructions, or performing "official" duties?
0 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
0 ugdr6424 2013-12-29
Fair enough. What did you have in mind?
2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
0 ugdr6424 2013-12-29
Do let me know of what you find in that link. I also receive occasional gifts from him, but damn it would help to know exactly what to look for within the multitudes of links contained therein.
3 swansong19 2013-12-29
Why not just have the option to upvote? Upvote it if you like it...don't if you don't....bang...you just eliminated the downvoting trolls.
2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
1 swansong19 2013-12-29
In the "documented truth" sub-forum they have put this into practice. You can only upvote vide/doc submissions. I like it....pardon the pun.
Make it happen, IM...many of us will provide what support we can.
0 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
1 swansong19 2013-12-29
Yes.
http://www.reddit.com/r/DocumentedTruth/
If you pop in there you'll notice...no downvotes on any of the submissions.
2 joetromboni 2013-12-29
I always thought the best way to track voting would have been to give "click" karma to users. Your post goes up in click karma every time someone clicks on the link, because after all that is really what is desired when you post something.
You want people to click it and read about it...whether they like it or not is somewhat irrelevant.
7 Brotherpace 2013-12-29
We need a new site
2 selfdestructive_AI 2013-12-29
You may be interested in my post @ /r/privacy: http://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1tycrg/echoplexus_oss_pseudonymous_encryptable_group/
0 Vdebs 2013-12-29
or a new sub reddit
perhaps r/conspiracyv2 would work
perhaps not
6 go_fly_a_kite 2013-12-29
The cotton gin freed the slaves. Democracy will only last as long as it takes for people to realize that the masses DO have power. Then some sort of republican marxist amalgam has to be instituted.
4 Superconducter 2013-12-29
reddit tv had a video about surviving the Boston Bombing yesterday.
It was a sponsored post meaning you couldn't comment on it or vote on it.
I had wished to comment that "There's nothing to see here, move along " with these pictures to follow.
http://imgur.com/pMPFUg7,tXqro2p#1
http://i.imgur.com/RxRzprN.jpg
http://imgur.com/pMPFUg7,tXqro2p#0
At least in this one instance critical information never got out of this sub.
The last post about the Boston bombing on reddit tv, otherwise known as /r/videos, was 8 months ago.
This current one was not even listed in the /r/videos.page
So, sponsoring a video gets propaganda a free pass that cannot be criticized or downvoted.
4 Vdebs 2013-12-29
/u/letsownthenwo
/u/OWNtheNWO
Lets see, 6%-
http://pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/reddit/Findings.aspx
This site Was for the purpose of spreading information, and it still is to a high degree. But over time the amount of propaganda/shillery has proliferated. As expected.
NO EMPIRE thats ever existed has ever had to deal a thing like the internet, let alone reddit where we are all "equal".
so, they're very concerned, scared, and uneasy about the future of reddit and the future of subreddits like /r/worldnews and /r/conspiracy
1)they changed the CSS of this sub. IT DEFINITELY MAKES IT HARDER TO READ AND NAVIGATE. They did the same with r/politics
3 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
3 Vdebs 2013-12-29
good point
there is now way in hell we can expect honest moderators on this sub reddit
1 TreeMonger 2013-12-29
I was reading down the list of comments and you're right.. Where are they?
3 swansong19 2013-12-29
Excellent post OP. These exact issues have been vexing me during my entire time at reddit. It seems nary impossible for a post with valuable information to gain any traction due to downvoting and "burying".
Kudos for spelling it out in black and white.
2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
2 swansong19 2013-12-29
We have your back, IM.
As an independent researcher and writer I had really hoped that reddit would be a useful platform to spread the word(s). Instead it has shown itself to be little more than a place where the message goes to be controlled.
Don't give up. This needs to be discussed. Actually it needs to be changed...but discussion is a good first step.
2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
Purpose of this sub: some higher powers need to know what general public knows and what kind of information should be kept as "crazy nutjob info". As you see there are many who get paid for downvoting and upvoting information with same agenda
2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
3 Vdebs 2013-12-29
u/-moose- is definitely the man
his archive.. god dam
2 MplusH 2013-12-29
This is a Conde Nast publication just like their magazines GQ and Vanity Fair...obvious the mainstream has infiltrated the site since its beginning so your comments are right on a Way
1 alllie 2013-12-29
Right now I can get some stuff to move. At least on non-default subs.
-1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
[deleted]
2 swansong19 2013-12-29
Ha! I had the same conversation with myself not one week ago. The votes seem positively meaningless.
1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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-7 emotionalpsychopath 2013-12-29
Errythang a conspiracy.
-7 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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-2 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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1 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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-4 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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0 [deleted] 2013-12-29
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2 swansong19 2013-12-29
We have your back, IM.
As an independent researcher and writer I had really hoped that reddit would be a useful platform to spread the word(s). Instead it has shown itself to be little more than a place where the message goes to be controlled.
Don't give up. This needs to be discussed. Actually it needs to be changed...but discussion is a good first step.
0 ugdr6424 2013-12-29
Fair enough. What did you have in mind?