Hmm, kind of like how children are made to behave by making them believe in a santa clause who is always watching, making a list and checking it twice.

Interesting concept, indeed. Could provide an alternate or supplementary motive for the theories about edward snowden being a spy and thst the gov allowed him and actuslly wanted him to release the info thst he did.

Nice speculating, sir.

That is an epiphany? Why do you think the communists enforced atheism as part of their belief system? Because they wanted the masses to look to state to be their god. This has been the method for establishing totalitarian governments for many years.

others may have realized it first, but it could still be an epiphany to him. it was quite the epiphany when I realized it.

Good point. Both government and god are also connected psychology to the role of a father.

Superego.

Ive used the same argument trying to wake up friends to the systematic destruction of our culture and society. I am not religious but I see the void it fills. Along with that we have lost a sense of community as well.

Along with that we have lost a sense of community as well.

That is by design.

They don't want you to know that everything we need can be produced on a local level. They rather have us eat gmo corn dripping with pesticides and preservatives being trucked in from across the country. There is definately an Agenda here.

My religion frees me from the state. That's what it teaches me, non-violent resistence. It doesn't teach me to "obey the state", or anyone else. It teaches me that when I go protesting and the gendarmes threaten me with violence, I should stand my ground without resorting to violence myself. It teaches me that powerful men will stop at nothing until we're all tagged and through the government, they will know everything we do. If anything, my religion has made me more anti-system than anything else. I'm orthodox Christian by the way, one of the "blind sheeple" around here.

Very well said. I'm a bible-studying, Jesus-following Christian as well.

Same. Crazy how jesus and government got so mixed up in my parents generations eyes

I'm not sure if you guys have seen this documentary called "Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers" but I thought it was really good.

http://www.adullamfilms.com/HiddenFaith.html

I believe it's up on youtube for free viewing as well. I have this and almost every other film made by Adullam Films if you want. I can share via my google drive.

makes me think back to Apocalypto, the beheading/escape scene.

Except now they have a million ways to kill you for being disobedient and make it look like an accident.

Here's an especially aptly named one:

Rods from God

Space-launched darts that strike like meteors

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/rods-god

Rather antichrist...

More like they assume the role of Santa Claus, but with no presents. Just the list so far.

You need to check out Larken Rose & his book The Greatest Superstition. He has a great YouTube channel here

larken rose is a bad ass.. as well as james corbett and lew rockwell

Oh totally! Corbett & Max Keiser are like my go to guys. & never disappointed by Lew Rockwell.

"God is power."

George Orwell, "1984."

Actually, without religion, you see more obedience as shown in Russia during history.

Without religion is not the same as godless. Over Thanksgiving one family member who is atheist tried to sneak me into his hard line camp with an argument of "well which one is more likely" to imply that a 51% (maybe 66%) more likely choice that there is no god implies that there cannot be one. I took exception to this definition and another family member went on my side. Then next we were looking up the exact definitions.

Apparently I am actually agnostic as defined by the word and I held my line on that one. The hard line atheists seem to like to swell their ranks. Just look at the difference between the subscribership of /r/agnosticism and /r/atheism. I'm basically agnostic and I could really give a shit about talking about that all day. I have more freedom to explore ideas and I also don't have to beat myself up if I feel one way or another at a moment. If there is a god is it more like a wave or a particle? Whatever. The answer doesn't really change anything for me even if the question doesn't make any sense.

The grand majority of atheists are agnostic. To be a gnostic atheist requires 100% proof that their is no god. As proving a negative is virtually impossible without being omnipotent yourself, being a gnostic atheist is about as unrealistic as being religious.

Do you believe in God and feel that God is still relevant in our lives?

I believe in God, and He's sure relevant in mine.

What do you believe and how is he so?

Why do you refer to god as "he"? That means you're anthropomorphizing the idea of god, and assigning a gender. Makes no logical sense that an intelligent creator would be limited in any way

I didn't, I referred to God as God; my use of a gender specific pronoun was in dignifying and respectingfully responding to 'stillbatting1000's' belief based on how they used it.

Ah ok, didn't notice that

while we're on the subject, what's your view/belief in God?

I believe god to be kind of a guiding intelligent force that shapes existence. I think it transcends time and space. I kind of see it in terms of the whole hermetic "conscious universe" type of thing. I don't see the boundary between science and TRUE religion, true religion being the truth of existence, not dogmatic interpretations. Like Einstein said, something along the lines of "Science is simply understanding the mind of God". The more we learn from science, the more it makes me realize that there is an incredibly unique, harmonious and perfect order in the universe. I guess I kind of think of god like a metaphor for the intelligent force guiding and shaping the universe, when it's all said and done.

What are your feelings about the bible?

I think people take it too literally. It has some good ideas in there, but I think a large part of the Old Testament is, in my opinion, meant to be taken allegorically/metaphorically. I think that of all of the old scriptures, the ones that actually resonate with me would be the Gnostic Gospels of the Nag Hammadi library, which were only discovered in 1945. They humanize Jesus, instead of placing him on a pedestal of idolatry. The teachings of Jesus in the Gnostic Gospels are incredibly interesting. It's no wonder why they had to be buried/hidden...the Roman authorities wanted to cherry pick the teachings to control people's perspective of their state religion, and keep them subservient... Like a modern day book burning.

does the fact that the universe is incredibly ordered suggest that it's creator or maker is orderly in thinking, design and then action?

I don't believe the creator thinks things out. In my philosophy classes I was taught that god would be considered the greatest conceivable intelligence, far faster than quantum computers and the speed of light. I think that it's largely about instant harmony and adaption/evolution. As a conscious energy, god may be omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. This applies to more than our observable universe. Given that, and as I said this concept transcends time and space...this conscious existence already knows the future...hell, it IS the future, because it's eternal and infinite. We as humans cannot grasp this because we were born imperfect and limited in our perspective. Hell, take a look at the tiny portion of the visible light spectrum we have access to, and realize that's only light. We are talking about the infinite and eternal here, light is only a small part, and we cannot even comprehend the full spectrum of THAT.

Where does "order", "thinking", and "action" come from?

Yeup. god Government and the NSA's attempt to be all-knowing.

selfish finite feelings vs infinite finite feelings The more power the harder it is to look past your own happiness.

I wouldn't say Government is the general public's "god". I would say it's their Daddy.

Some UN minions told us that to accept the new world order they have to destroy three basic pillars that keep the population grounded and then replace that space with their ideology. The pillars are 1. family bounds, 2. nationalism and 3. religion. Ask which nations are in favor of this pillars and which nations are detroying them on purpose and you will know the sides of the global war. Which countries are destroying the familily with gay rights, gender studies, agitation between men and woman and much more? Which are the countries that are not protecting their countries from foreign influences? Which countries are opposed to religion and whose population is mocking every religion but have cultural events full of satanic symbols and rituals. If it is not done by design then the coincidence is staggering.

So, you think the Middle East is doing pretty good then, huh?

I had to read my comment again. No, there was no evaluation of good or bad that I wanted to express. There might be people out there that think destroying the family bounds is a great idea, but really I am not one of them.

It is obvious to me that Putin is acting diametrically opposed to everything the USA or the EU does. How do you explain that? Maybe because he wants opposed poles sharing the power of the world and is opposed to the globalist dream of the one world order?

Tell me where I've gone astray in my reading.

Some UN minions

You don't approve of the UN.

told us that to accept the new world order they have to destroy three basic pillars that keep the population grounded

If the enemy would cast asunder, the hero must desire to protect the MacGuffin pillars of society, but what are they?

The pillars are 1. family bounds, 2. nationalism and 3. religion.

Let us set aside for a moment the assertion that the UN is organized enough to have their own Satanic ideology and instead simply assert that the combination of words leading up to this point suggest that you value these three "pillars" and worry they are threatened by mysterious international forces. Have I lost the thread of you narrative yet?

Ask which nations are in favor of this pillars and which nations are detroying them on purpose and you will know the sides of the global war.

I sure don't see any Western European countries fighting for traditional family, nationalism or bronze age woo religion.

Which countries are destroying the familily with gay rights, gender studies, agitation between men and woman and much more?

Hell, at this point, even gun-toting, Bible-thumping America looks like it has fallen on the so called wrong side, between gay marriage, equal rights for women in the workplace "and much more"! Do you remember when those people knew their place? Pepperidge Farms remembers!

Which are the countries that are not protecting their countries from foreign influences?

I could go Google you up such an impressive list of acronyms like NAFTA, but I'd rather ask you to make me a list of countries protecting themselves from foreign influence. It's not that the suggestion is wildly unfamiliar, it's just that I am accustomed to hearing that sort of talk out of Arab governments seeking to thwart western intervention in their attempts to beat, gas and bomb their populations back into a more obedient mindset.

Which countries are opposed to religion and whose population is mocking every religion but have cultural events full of satanic symbols and rituals.

Hrmmm, that sounds like a jab at Hollywood and the good, ol' US of A. Let's contrast life in America with life in some more devout places like Calcutta or Benghazi or Kashmir. How's life going under the grace of god? or did you have some other, specific god in mind?

There might be people out there that think destroying the family bounds is a great idea, but really I am not one of them.

Right, let's bring marriage back to its roots, an exchange of property as described in the Bible. I don't think they put the same one man and one woman cap on things though...

It is obvious to me that Putin is acting diametrically opposed to everything the USA or the EU does. How do you explain that?

Putin is the head of a former super power hoping to claw its way back into relevancy on the strength of natural gas and an aging nuclear stockpile. I explain it in that international relations is game with a finite pool of victorious circumstances, which is to say that the more good one country controls, the less good is left on the table for the other countries. I certainly don't need to fall back on sky wizards and hidden demons.

Maybe because he wants opposed poles sharing the power of the world and is opposed to the globalist dream of the one world order?

Vladimir Putin would sit the thrown if he knew where it was and how to get there. So would every other elected politician serving in office in a wealthy country today, I think. I don't need Illuminati cabals to explain that this is how the game of thrones is played. You cling to the comforting notion that the enemy is known and therefore can be exposed and defeated and the good can finally get back to the way things were before the cancerous evil, but when? When, exactly, was this golden age of peace and free thought? The real world has a hundred hundred viscous, bloodthirsty dictators waiting for the right opportunity, silently biding their time and doing their part at their level. The enemy is not some otherworldly devil or attainted cabal, but the very fact and frailty of human nature. We are the sum total of our many possibilities, each one of us every hero and every monster. By shifting the blame to metaphysical dichotomies, you excuse yourself the responsibility to make the world a better place.

You don't approve of the UN.

No, I do not approve of the expansion of the Anglo-American, psychopathic establishment, through central organizations that they control, called UN. WHO, WTO, IPCC and IMF are nonfunctioning, corrupted bodies of global control that do not serve the purpose they claim to have. That alone should raise eyebrows, even not knowing their history as successor of CFR, the League of Nations or the research of Carrol Quigley. If the Rockefellers that sponsored the UN building are not luziferian then it must be a rather odd coincidence that they have a Lucis trust. I do not believe in imposing bad things for the greater good, because that way you can force the most destructive and violent agendas down the throats of the gullible. They want a one world religion and that religion is based in the occult. They act as if they are opposed to religions and that they want a brighter future. But they are devaluating and attacking Christianity, Judaism, Islam and every other religion that is not based in the occult. Femen did not even realize that they are just pawns of the UN agenda when they run into churches. I think their destructive agenda is well known by now and I can not be ignorant about it.

21 Goals of the Illuminati and The Committee of 300

Ron Paul exposes United Nations plan to destroy US

Vladimir Lenin: 'Destroy the Family, You Destroy the Country'

I am myself an atheist, but I consider religions to be of philosophical value and they provide help and keep people grounded. Some humans need them, they represent the individuality of people and should not be forbidden or be controlled by the state. There are two examples from last century where they forbade religions in a state and it went miserably wrong (social-nationalistic Germany and communistic UDSSR). The UN should better not tamper with religions and not try to force the clash of civilizations to discredit every religion.

but I'd rather ask you to make me a list of countries protecting themselves from foreign influence.

Perhaps you are not paying attention. They try to protect themselves and I think you do not understand what is going on in Europe. All sorts of countries are trying to get out of the grip of the globalists. Some just have to flee under the belt of one of the super powers and Russia is still one and gaining influence and military force by the day.

• Austria: President Haider was too nationalistic and had a “car accident”.

• Poland: President too nationalisitic. Plane crash with all the policians.

• Ireland: They forced the EURO and the Treaty of Lisbon on Ireland even when most of the population did not want that. But they voted as often they wanted to get it done.

• Iceland: The only successful little country so far.

• Greece: Too nationalistic, they have thrown out the president and replaced him with a Goldman Sachs minion.

• Czech Republic: Vaclav Klaus was too nationalistic and they forced him out of power and he was also forced to reluctantly sign the Treaty of Lisbon.

• Italy: see Greece and the population hated that Goldman Sachs guy.

• Switzerland: they are tampering with this country even when it is not in the EU.

• Ukraine: First "color revolution". And the country was heavily propagandized by the EU and they wanted them to sign treaties but now they are back under control of Russia.

I do not know if you are familiar with the call of independence from Scotland and Basque Country. You see some presidents and part of the population know something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

The problem is that none of the countries in Europe have enough military power to oppose the globalist agenda and they can not even protect their population from being spied on by the NSA. So in reality there is only China and Russia left. And for sure there are some countries that claim to be independent and sovereign nations, but they are instantly attacked like Libya (oil, gold dinar) or Afghanistan (opium, Caspian see gas pipeline) or are not important enough to have a military intervention at the moment (for example Cuba, Argentina, Uruguay, Venezuela). And for sure there are some countries that are vilified all the time because they are not licking the boots of the Anglo-American establishment.

So that's why the NSA gives me the same uncomfortable feeling as rigid mainstream religions, they're both trying to enforce their versions of the "good citizen" on us. Considering who they are and what they do, I see no reason why we should "aspire" to uphold their ambiguous and hypocritical moral codes.

It's now the business of the US Military/HAARP/DARPA to control the weather and seismic activity. They do actually have a belief they're all powerful. It's amazing they can't forsee consequences that will harm them as well as the rest of us.

That's a perversion of what the actual Bible relates to the fundamental aspects of The Human Condition. It starts with the primary tenant that man has free will. "Religions" may prescribe what you must do, but you need to take into context that the initial act that defines man's realm, is based on doing what he chooses irrespective of any command from anyone. That is why "they" will fail.

Does no one remember who Jesus (or Yeshwa if you prefer his hebrew name) was? He would have been labeled a "terrorist" today. He threw the money lenders out of the temple. He upset the status quo, big time. We really need to start asking ourselves "What would Jesus do?"

I am not religious, but I do like to study religious text and try to figure out how it actually applies to mankind without assuming the existence of God as it has been assumed or interpreted by clergy and scholars.
The Tower of Babel scripture has fascinated me for years - 9 simple lines that most churchgoing people pay little mind to but really speaks a lot to me about the true nature of the "God" portrayed in those books:

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar[b] and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Throughout the Old Testament, the depiction of God seems more to me to be in the nature of a lab tech than a beneficent deity. Multiple times, God will scatter man across the Earth or even extinguish life on a mass scale and "Start Over". Like a trial and error pattern. That doesn't sound like All-Knowing and All-Powerful to me.

If God is afraid that man can come together as a collective and accomplish so much, and our government is acting as God, then I believe the solution to our government problem is not a new form of government led by a small group of people. The solution is a collective, a hive mind that checks itself and is not bound by secretive and corrupt power mongers.

A true collective is what the NSA's far-reaching information theft is designed to conquer. Turn the individual against their neighbor and they will never cohere.

I just want to congratulate you on the use of the word epiphany, well done, well done indeed.

Seriously? This is on the front page?

Oh, I get it. Obvious shit gets upvoted. Not doing anything gets upvoted. Regurgitating the same gets upvoted.

Who knows, maybe it will inspire an epiphany in a uninitiated traveler exploring this part of the multiverse. And maybe we'll debate it while we're at it!

The US government wants you to believe in "God". "God bless America" "One Nation under God" "In God we trust" Obama swearing in on multiple Christian bibles.

Not to mention the Republican party and their "War on Christmas".

Do you believe an openly Atheist presidential candidate could win in the USA for president ? And then refuse to swear on a bible ?

I just don't agree with the religious reference. From my point of view the government is still fully corrupted and polluted with religion.

As well as much of America. Atheism is not growing fast enough.

In r/news this is how people of America feel about the government. * Poll: Americans Have Little Faith in Government http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1ual8i/poll_majority_of_americans_have_profoundly/

• http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/01/02/poll-americans-have-little-faith-in-government.html

Are they polluted with religion... or using it as a means of exploiting people who believe in God? "Look! We're the godly candidates, vote for us!" It's a clever angle. Even the devil masquerades as an angel of light. I would.

Stalin, Mao, the North Korean government, all atheist.

Very well said. I do think the evidence shows that they use religion as a means of exploiting people who believe in God. If they do worship a god, it's clearly not the god of the bible.

others may have realized it first, but it could still be an epiphany to him. it was quite the epiphany when I realized it.

Oh totally! Corbett & Max Keiser are like my go to guys. & never disappointed by Lew Rockwell.

I think people take it too literally. It has some good ideas in there, but I think a large part of the Old Testament is, in my opinion, meant to be taken allegorically/metaphorically. I think that of all of the old scriptures, the ones that actually resonate with me would be the Gnostic Gospels of the Nag Hammadi library, which were only discovered in 1945. They humanize Jesus, instead of placing him on a pedestal of idolatry. The teachings of Jesus in the Gnostic Gospels are incredibly interesting. It's no wonder why they had to be buried/hidden...the Roman authorities wanted to cherry pick the teachings to control people's perspective of their state religion, and keep them subservient... Like a modern day book burning.

So, you think the Middle East is doing pretty good then, huh?

You don't approve of the UN.

No, I do not approve of the expansion of the Anglo-American, psychopathic establishment, through central organizations that they control, called UN. WHO, WTO, IPCC and IMF are nonfunctioning, corrupted bodies of global control that do not serve the purpose they claim to have. That alone should raise eyebrows, even not knowing their history as successor of CFR, the League of Nations or the research of Carrol Quigley. If the Rockefellers that sponsored the UN building are not luziferian then it must be a rather odd coincidence that they have a Lucis trust. I do not believe in imposing bad things for the greater good, because that way you can force the most destructive and violent agendas down the throats of the gullible. They want a one world religion and that religion is based in the occult. They act as if they are opposed to religions and that they want a brighter future. But they are devaluating and attacking Christianity, Judaism, Islam and every other religion that is not based in the occult. Femen did not even realize that they are just pawns of the UN agenda when they run into churches. I think their destructive agenda is well known by now and I can not be ignorant about it.

21 Goals of the Illuminati and The Committee of 300

Ron Paul exposes United Nations plan to destroy US

Vladimir Lenin: 'Destroy the Family, You Destroy the Country'

I am myself an atheist, but I consider religions to be of philosophical value and they provide help and keep people grounded. Some humans need them, they represent the individuality of people and should not be forbidden or be controlled by the state. There are two examples from last century where they forbade religions in a state and it went miserably wrong (social-nationalistic Germany and communistic UDSSR). The UN should better not tamper with religions and not try to force the clash of civilizations to discredit every religion.

but I'd rather ask you to make me a list of countries protecting themselves from foreign influence.

Perhaps you are not paying attention. They try to protect themselves and I think you do not understand what is going on in Europe. All sorts of countries are trying to get out of the grip of the globalists. Some just have to flee under the belt of one of the super powers and Russia is still one and gaining influence and military force by the day.

• Austria: President Haider was too nationalistic and had a “car accident”.

• Poland: President too nationalisitic. Plane crash with all the policians.

• Ireland: They forced the EURO and the Treaty of Lisbon on Ireland even when most of the population did not want that. But they voted as often they wanted to get it done.

• Iceland: The only successful little country so far.

• Greece: Too nationalistic, they have thrown out the president and replaced him with a Goldman Sachs minion.

• Czech Republic: Vaclav Klaus was too nationalistic and they forced him out of power and he was also forced to reluctantly sign the Treaty of Lisbon.

• Italy: see Greece and the population hated that Goldman Sachs guy.

• Switzerland: they are tampering with this country even when it is not in the EU.

• Ukraine: First "color revolution". And the country was heavily propagandized by the EU and they wanted them to sign treaties but now they are back under control of Russia.

I do not know if you are familiar with the call of independence from Scotland and Basque Country. You see some presidents and part of the population know something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

The problem is that none of the countries in Europe have enough military power to oppose the globalist agenda and they can not even protect their population from being spied on by the NSA. So in reality there is only China and Russia left. And for sure there are some countries that claim to be independent and sovereign nations, but they are instantly attacked like Libya (oil, gold dinar) or Afghanistan (opium, Caspian see gas pipeline) or are not important enough to have a military intervention at the moment (for example Cuba, Argentina, Uruguay, Venezuela). And for sure there are some countries that are vilified all the time because they are not licking the boots of the Anglo-American establishment.