ASTRONAUTS

"I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on Earth." — Colonel Gordon Cooper, Mercury & Gemini Astronaut

"I happen to be privileged enough to be in on the fact that we have been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomenon is real. It has been covered up by governments for quite some time now." — Captain Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut

"...I've been asked [about UFOs] and I've said publicly I thought they [UFOs] were somebody else, some other civilization." — Astronaut Eugene Cernan, Apollo 17 Commander

"Mission control, we have a UFO pacing our position, request instructions." — Astronaut Cady Coleman

"I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. [...] It looked like a saucer, a disk. About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me - and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared." — Captain Donald Slayton, Mercury Astronaut

"Statistically it's a certainty there are hugely advanced civilizations, intelligence, life forms out there. I believe they're so advanced they're even doing interstellar travel. I believe it's possible they even came here." — Dr. Storey Musgrave, NASA Astronaut

"For nearly 50 years, the secrecy apparatus within the United States Government has kept from the public UFO and alien contact information." "We have contact with alien cultures." — Astronaut Dr. Brian O'Leary

"In my official status, I cannot comment on ET contact. However, personally, I can assure you, we are not alone!" — Charles J. Camarda (Ph.D.), NASA Astronaut

NASA, CIA, ARMY, AIR FORCE ETC

"Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFOs come from and what their purpose is..." (1)

"Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe that unknown flying objects are nonsense." (2)

— Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, first Director of the CIA, 1947-1950

"We had a job to do, wether right or wrong, to keep the public from getting excited." (2) — Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Scientific consultant for Air Force Project Blue Book

"Of course UFOs are real, and they are interplanetary. The cumulative evidence for the existence of UFOs is quite overwhelming and I accept the fact of their existence."

— Air Chief Marshall Lord Hugh Dowding, Commanding Officer of the Royal Air Force during WWII "Let there be no doubt. Alien technology harvested from the infamous saucer crash in Roswell, N.Mex., in July 1947 led directly to the development of the integrated circuit chip, laser and fibre optic technologies, particle beams, electromagnetic propulsion systems, depleted uranium projectiles, stealth capabilities, and many others. How do I know? I was in charge! I think the kids on this planet are wise to the truth, and I think we ought to give it to them. I think they deserve it."

— Colonel Philip Corso, Former head of the Foreign Technology Desk for United States Army Research and Development, National Security Council member, Eisenhower Administration.

"We must insist upon full access to disks recovered. For instance, in the La case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination." — J. Edgar Hoover, first Director of the FBI

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity... anything you can imagine we already know how to do." — Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works "This 'flying saucer' situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious." — General Nathan Twining, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff 1955-1958 "Unidentified Flying Objects are entering our atmosphere at very high speeds and obviously under intelligent control. We must solve this riddle without delay." — Rear Admiral Delmar Fahrney, USNR "The nations of the world will have to unite, for the next war will be an interplanetary war. The nations of the earth must someday make a common front against attack by people from other planets". — General Douglas MacArthur

Page 2 of this official FBI document

http://i.imgur.com/bREig.jpg

Source page 22

From FBI Official Documents archive

Also page 57 and 58 are worth a look.

http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO%20Part%201%20of%2016/view

http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO%20Part%201%20of%2016/view

Thanks for taking the time to make such a fantastic post.

awesome post, i reposted it in a few places too! thank you for taking the time!

great post!

Just to piggyback this on there: 12 government documents that take UFOs seriously

Richard Dolan is one of the very best writers in the UFO field, and he also has radical politics. He's currently working on his third edition of "UFO's and the National Security State." I just listened to the interview he did on the best paranormal radio show out there, theparacon.com. (Unfortunately, it has lots of commercials, though.)

Hmm, don't know if that's a very good metric. Govt also took seriously that LSD would make you kill your baby, marijuana would lead you to heroin, Vietnam going communist would lead to a domino effect, Iraq had WMDs, etc.

Literally all of those things you mentioned were deliberate disinfo/propaganda.

Just like ETs!

Despite your shitty attempt at trolling, you might actually be onto something with this - you wouldn't be the first whistleblower or UFO-researcher to suggest something similar.

That wasn't a troll attempt. On job site on my phone or I'd supply evidence that tptb are going to use a fake et war to enact nwo.

Okay, my mistake - I'm usually pretty good at picking up on sarcasm but sometimes it's quite difficult online where there's no shortage of trolls trying to derail every conversation into some kind of circlejerk.

I've read up on Bluebeam, too. Seems eerily plausible despite its seemingly outrageous premise.

Well. A few things. A lot of these documents were top secret at the time. The only reason They came out was because of FOIA requests in the nineties. Also, it's a lot about the context of each document. Like a 3 star general (later 4 star) saying that UFOs are "not fictitious" and "not hallucinations" and are commonly "domed on top, flat on bottom". Not sure if that's the actual quote (im on my phone) but it's the gist of the twining memo of 1947.

this is awesome. I have to put it on Geekation. Never seen the evidence from this POV before.

One can only hope these aliens are Special Circumstances.

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In my opinion, in a world such as ours where one can expect a measure of notoriety and even profit to come from professing such beliefs, it comes as no surprise that several people have done so. This, combined with the well-documented unreliability of eyewitnesses, and the tendency of people to straight-up lie when there is an incentive, leads me to think that this evidence is not, in fact, very compelling.

It's the exact opposite of what your implying.

These people, and the people that make up the disclosure project, are putting their perceived sanity, careers, and relationships on the line by admitting they believe they've had unexplainable encounters.

Four star generals, air force pilots, commanders, astronauts- these people do not have to claim alien to make money. Thats preposterous.

I expect that the many individuals who claim to have revealed "top-secret" UFO information have had all sorts of reasons for doing so. However, there is undoubtedly incentive to make false claims because of the strong "UFO culture" that gobbles it all up.
This, combined with the contradictory nature of any details "revealed", the tendency of humans to delusion, and the inherent unlikeliness of the claims leads me to lend little credence to the stronger statements above.

That being said, people claiming that there is probably intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, or that people have seen flying objects that they could not identify, or that the government keeps secrets regarding its military, have a point.

This is absolutely absurd. Do you live in the same country as I do where any figure of importance will drown in ridicule if they dared to say that aliens have been visiting us? Talk to pilots, people in intelligence, etc about how their careers will turn out if they actually publicly talk about this subject. Their careers will instantly derail if not terminated.

And in the cases of some of these people, even their legacy will become jeopardized. Ed Mitchell is one of only a handful of men to have stepped on the moon, there's already large numbers of detractors calling him a lunatic.

And there's also the issue of numerous corroborations to what these people are saying. For example, the Japanese pilots and crew who claimed they saw a glowing giant walnut shaped UFO following their airplane at a dangerously close distance not only have multiple corroborating witnesses to back the claim but also have multiple radar readings from independent radar towers backing up their claim.

And in the case of the Corales Island UFO attacks, you had countless independent witnesses ranging from citizens, to nurses, to doctors all reporting the exact same thing. You also have dead bodies after they've been attacked, identical marks on the bodies of victims etc. And later on, the government even sent in the military and the military officers witnessed the same UFO attacks as all the other witnesses. There's detailed military notes and reports on what these soldiers witnessed.

You don't have to "believe" these witnesses, but it's just silly to chalk them all up as attention seekers if you took any time to look into many of these people's claims and reports. And the imaginary monetary incentive is hilarious. There's maybe a handful of UFO historians and scholars who can make a decent living off this, and maybe a handful of books that have hit NYT best sellers. The majority of these people who come forward will never see a day of steady income from their old career again due to the UFO-crazy label. That's why so many of these high level officials speak after they've already retired.

I probably don't live in the same country as you, but I digress; these things can, in some contexts, be risky for one's career. That doesn't mean those making these claims aren't seeking attention, in fact it means they get more attention. Still, probably a significant number of these people do believe what they are saying.
However, events with multiple witnesses are a different issue. In those cases it is pretty clear that something occured, and that there were sometimes flying objects involved that were not at the time identified.
That being said, I expect someone (not me) with actual knowledge of the specific incidents could in most, if not all cases explain them without invoking extremely unlikely extra-terrestrial explanations.

What I was trying to point out in my original comment is that anecdotes are the very least reliable kind of evidence because there are so many explanations other than them being literally true; I was not accusing the witnesses of being attention-seekers all.

That being said, I expect someone (not me) with actual knowledge of the specific incidents could in most, if not all cases explain them without invoking extremely unlikely extra-terrestrial explanations.

This right here is why we cannot have an actual conversation on this subject. You are an intelligible guy, I recommend you please study into this subject before you comment further. I think if you enlighten yourself on this subject and review on a case by case basis what is happening you would have a different tone about this subject. I think you would certainly think twice before dismissing events by saying something to the extent of "someone somewhere can probably explain this away without the extraterrestrial hypothesis". This is an intellectually lazy argument.

This is even more of an issue because those "someone somewhere" have already attempted to do exactly what you've said and have published reports saying the extraterrestrial explanation is the least improbable explanation for the 5% of truly unidentified flying objects. This is the French space agency saying this. Numerous other governments have published reports on this subject as well. Even the U.S. government have published reports on this. Look into project Blue Book which was constructed specifically to explain away UFO cases. That's where the infamous "swamp gas" explanations came from. The scientist who led this project later on admitted that this was a coverup and that they flat out made stuff up to explain away extremely compelling cases. He admitted they weren't trying to scientifically investigate the subject, and that they were just the "scientific" rubber stamp to dismiss the subject. You should read into what he actually wrote about his theory on the subject after the project was ended. But then again, you might just call him an attention seeker and dismiss him.

This is nothing personal. I've just had so many conversations like this with people in the past where they literally have not opened a page on the subject and are attempting to dismiss every single thing by using generic, ignorant, and uninformed responses. There's no way to argue with them because their arguments are by definition irrational and ignorant. They have not given an ounce of effort into educating themselves about this subject, yet they feel compelled to speak on it with some sort of authority. They approach this as if they are the rational and enlightened one in the conversation.

I'll admit that you have a point. One of the reasons why I comment on forums such as this is because sometimes I am wrong/uninformed, and others can help me be less wrong about the world.

Could you link me to some sort of index of relevent events? I have sort of tried to look for myself before, but I always get bogged down by the misinformation and complete lack of skepticism that I find. I have been unable to find a single blog or forum that I can take seriously.

British ministry of Defense released information on this subject not to long ago, aswell as Mexico, and even Russia. How hard did you look? Did you just go on youtube? The human race, without intervention of extra-terrestrials, has found numerous planets that could potentially contain life, now imagine an intelligent race millions of years ahead of us. I am pretty sure they know we are here. I believe most people would agree that we are not the only intelligent life in the galaxy, let alone the universe. Humans always seem to think they are right, based on historical references, you should understand what I mean pretty clearly. Therefore, we think it is impossible for life to travel through the galaxy due to the time contraints based on our physics, yet what if our views are fundementally flawed. Einstein E=mc² was just proven incomplete/incorrect. Who is to say what is next. On the matter of aliens, I believe with the massive amount of people coming out to talk about their experiences, this scenario will either be disclosed or debunked within my life time. HYBRID ALIEN BABIES OP people finally get to realize how inferior we really are in the grand scheme of things... we are essentially worthless... philosophy 101

Except that an astronaut already has recognition and notoriety. You're also discounting the massive risk to reputation and possible career termination and ridicule that comes with such beliefs. The risk reward ratio is actually skewed towards more risk in my opinion.

Most of these people aren't astronauts, but I'll admit that in the case of astronauts, other motivations are more likely. They may truly believe what they are saying, but people have been truly believing false things since there have been people. Anecdotes are never strong evidence for anything.

Yeah it's not "evidence." It's testimony. And testimony is known to be flawed for a lot of reasons. But the notoriety angle specifically I don't find convincing.

I think that some people come out with these stories for the potential money and attention, but I can see how that could be unconvincing for the examples cited above.

Throwing out witness testimony is the biggest cop out and when having an argument or discussion, it's like creationists pulling the God card. Yes we can throw out random citizens and non professionals, but this?

At a certain point you have to ask yourself everyone else is hallucinating (for almost a century), and lying, or you're just delusional and oblivious to the truth. Of course then they just say "Occam's razor bro", pretending that mass, decade long hallucinations, are more likely than any visitation or real phenomenon.

Wonderful material, thank you.

Top quality post. Thank you.

Awesome post

just adding the Interdimensional hypothesis advanced by Jacques Vallew

Great work. I believe too, but does any of yhis constitue 'evidense?

This will blow your mind as it blew mine right now. Lokas and talas are sanskrit terms that we still use these days and are referenced heavily in Vedic cosmology. They are classifications of planets and all descriptions of them are given in the Hindu scriptures, the Vedas :http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/forum/f17n03p190_sanskrit-theosophical-terms-and-their-meanings.htm

Page 57 says it was a Soviet craft

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Don't give reddit your money. It doesn't reward OP it rewards Conde Nast.

Didn't the Canadian Navy have an encounter with a USO too ?

I'm not refuting their claims, but, don't you think it's in the best interest of astronauts to perpetuate the alien theory? Sorta job security if you think about it.

Why would that help their job security?

Anything space-related and exciting increases chances of increasing NASA's budget, more employment for astronauts etc.

Except these astronauts have retired.

Dude you've overslept! Wake the fuck up already!

How can you all read those scanned pages? I can barely make them out.

Wasn't there an astronaut who drove across country in a diaper? Also Mitchell thinks he can channel energy to a guy in canada

So all the astronauts and doctors in the op's list are crazy?

I didn't say that although I know that some of those quotes were taken out of context or shortened like the UFO one. You could have added "looks like it is one of our boosters" because they figured out what it was

This invalidates everything!!!

I didn't say that i just said don't blindly accept some quote

Don't blindly write things off just because you have been trained from the time you were very young to do so. The panic that would result in the public from full disclosure by our government that aliens do exist and have been here for sometime would be unprecedented. Religions would shatter people would more then likely do something stupid out of fear and ignorance. If all of this does not make sense or I have got you pegged wrong as a sceptic I apologize. To me the amount arrogance it would take to believe that we are alone is mind boggling.

I didn't say we are alone. Just because we are probably not alone does not mean aliens have been visiting earth. There is a difference. Some of those quotes have been taken out of context. Thanks for the assumption though.

I apologized :(

The diaper story was a misinterpretation... it didn't really happen like that.

Please give the proper story. I thought she drove long-distance wearing a diaper, to go kill the lover or partner of the person she wanted. Wrong ?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19508417/#.Us3fgJ5dVp0

Thanks for the info. But of course that is what HER LAWYER is saying. Maybe it's true.

Lol oh well. This is an irrelevant debate anyway.

It's been a while, but I remember there being some spin proven to have been put on it. I'd have to go research it. But that's not the point here anyway, can't say all astronauts are nuts even if she DID do that. LOL People are people, everywhere. Using the people who mess up to say everyone can is an infinite argument. :)

well regardless a crazy bitch still drove across country. And mitchell belives in homopathy and that someone can "channel" energy to him from canada

LOL oh well. It still doesn't mean all astronauts are nuts. I know no one was implying that either. It's just that, this argument can be said for any person on earth. If one person was crazy, anyone can be. :)

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19508417/#.Us3fgJ5dVp0

my point still stands. she was crazy and drove across the country.

:) and my point still stands, it's a moot point. Anyone can be discredited by saying anyone can be crazy.

So do you think that Mitchell has the ability to have someone "channel energy" to him from Canada? Or was he lying about that but not the Aliens?

LOL I'm saying I don't care. The initial reason this came up was to discredit astronaut testimony by showing the fallibility of astronauts is just as likely as anyone else. Well of course it is. So we are really debating weather all human testimony ever, anywhere, can be given credibility, period. Of course this is impossible either way. People are people, everywhere. Some are reliable, some are not. We can't generalize any group that easily. I probably shouldn't have even brought the diaper thing up. It's just one example.

We were arguing the reliability of one person using the fallibility of another. Moot point.

Us.

ff tactics!

While you may be correct it doesn't mean much unless you can connect us to aliens in some meaningful way.

It's like going into court and saying I have the proof that this man committed murder. You pull out a gun and say see, this is the gun he used to shoot the victim.

Without any way to connect the gun to the crime it cannot considered proof.

not sure but I think he means the fact that we are alive in the universe proves that 'intelligent' life already exists somewhere in space, if not in this very solar system!!

Ah I see. This question is about aliens though, not intelligent life.

You're not that sharp are you? We are aliens.

Well I guess that would depend on how you define the word alien.

I know I was born and raised on Earth so I'm not an alien.

I'd like to know what definition you're working with that makes you feel that we're aliens.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess he meant that to everything else, we are alien-like in comparison.

An example would be anything that isn't human but native to Earth. Animals, insects, etc. We are nothing like them in that sense, or "alien" so to speak.

No. He's saying that the question is about proof whether or not aliens exist. If you're defining aliens as life in the universe then only an Earth centric perspective keeps us from being classified as aliens. Us or any other life on Earth.

As others have said, our very existence combined with the vastness of the universe makes for a compelling argument that there is life on other planets.

It's a bigger picture take on the question. I think the confusion is coming from people limiting the discussion to whether or not aliens have visited Earth.

The people not taking your meaning here are cracking me up. "I was born on Earth, man. I know I'm not an alien." Hilarious.

That argument is one of those things that makes sense as an analogy but when you think about it, it's not realistic at all. You're argument is that of "Life can only exist on land. Here, let me fill this cup on the beach. Nothing inside. See? There is no evidence to prove we aren't alone on this planet. So let's just keep it that way until one of these supposed sea creatures knock on our door or we see them using telescopes. Oh also people in boats tell stories about seeing fish, but they're just silly. ". There is an anachronism to our thinking and the way we go about looking for something like alien life. You have the world's professionals. The only ones who've been to space in the minuscule capacity we can, telling us what they see and it's just not good enough. Neither is anyone else, no matter how many times. They're all crazy.

My other point is you aren't special. Human life, relative to what this Universe can produce on it's timescale is a notch in a branch in an infinite forest. You can believe we aren't visited because human beings can chose to ignore evidence, or lack of it. But, to even entertain the idea that we are alone is literally magical thinking. Like, it would take an act of the collective intention of every pantheon of Gods in history going super Sayan to make us alone, or even the first.

You know what, your comment made me go back and re-read the original post and the comment I was responding to and I realize I was wrong. You're absolutely right and I'm not sure what I was thinking when I posted that.

If you were to ask me to make a wager I'd bet every time that aliens exist, but I was looking at the question in the wrong way. You gave me a reason to think about it again and it helped me to realize why I was wrong. Thanks.

The problem with aliens is that, until you see one in person, the evidence for them could just as easily be evidence for advanced human technology, which does in fact exist.

This is true. I'd like to think that there are aliens whose technology has been reversed engineered by us to try to be on par with them, and that some of the evidence (sightings, videos, etc.) are from our own spacecraft. However, I do also believe some of the evidence is from other alien species (plural).

If all of it IS advanced human technology it's time for a mother fucking riot because it takes me almost an entire day of travel to go from west to east coast right now to see my family.

There are billions and billions of stars and planets...for earth to be the only one that contained intelligent life is astronomically impossible.

If there's one, there must be another.

That doesnt mean they are here though.

The converse is also true:

It doesn't mean they aren't or have never been here.

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I saw a show that said if life on earth was represented on a time line by a man's outstretched arms, our existence would be at the tip of his finger... meaning that for all the time life has been on earth, man has only been here a very short amount of time. Any alien visits would have more than likely been about aliens landing and seeing fish walking out of water and decided there was nothing here.

But it is also statistically likely that they're either stuck in the stone age or looking for aliens themselves in their own limited corner of the cosmos.

Where are you getting that statistical likelihood from?

The fact that we have high speed wireless internet yet cannot even put a man on Mars. This fact greatly reduces the likelihood of aliens visiting Earth.

Is it that we cannot put a man on Mars or that we choose not to? Or maybe we did already and we (people like you and I) just haven't been told about it. It can be speculated but, in any case, I'd caution against claiming to know the "facts" about the space program and advanced technology that exists today.

Not really. Out own technological limitations have nothing to do with what an ET race that could be millions of years older than us may have.

I had an argument with my religious uncle about this. He was sure that we are alone and that anything that says hi is the Anti-Christ. As in everyone but us is the Anti-Christ, and I made him re-explain because as an atheist, I may have finally gotten the proof I need for a soul, because the deep pain I felt in my entire being after hearing it must have only come from that. Don't underestimate the stupidity of people.

On the subject of multiverses, Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said that everything has a pair.

This documentary The Hessdalen Light phenomenon is extremely hard to dismiss.

For reference, this famous photo was taken there.

Hessdalen phenonema is not ET, it is a natural and unexplained phenonema as ball lightning. While proof that what was once pseudo science, proven true

Except that in a scientific study done on it, the lights have responded to lasers being pulsed at them, something like 8/9 times. The frequency of flashing doubles in speed.

One night, the observers aimed the laser beam (633 nm; power¼0.4 4 0.76 mW, type: Ne-He) at two blinking lights that appeared one after the other over the course of one hour. Several attempts were made to get a reaction. The lights ‘‘responded’’ almost always by changing their flashing sequence from a regular flashing mode to a regular double-flashing mode and returning to a regular flashing mode after the laser beam was moved away (Strand, 1985, 2000).

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_18_2_teodorani.pdf

I'm glad you have proof it's natural, though.

There is none that would satisfy the degree of certainty you're looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect a picture of an alien flapping its dick in the wind to surface, but a well put together documentary of various sources would suffice.

hahaha I wanna see an alien flappijng his dick in the wind

This is why the aliens stay underground! They kept looking & groping for my penis! These humans are insane!

Walk outside and take your pants off...

I did it, and I saw my dick. I am a 245th generation extraterrestrial, therefore I just saw an alien flopping his dick around.

That's the thing.... If we had a clear, high res picture of an alien flapping its dick in the wind we would just collectively call it a photoshop. No matter how convincing it is it can never offer positive proof of aliens. We can only analyze the photo for faults and say it's fake.

"Wow. Does that asshole even TRIM?"

what if he was circumcised.

What's that got to do with manscaping? :/

replied to the wrong comment. but i'll leave it because circumcision is like savage mode manscaping if you do it as an adult.

I don't expect a picture of an alien flapping its dick in the wind to surface

The video doesn't show his dick.... but there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIelWH75q1M

Out of the Blue is the best UFO doc I've seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYPCKIL7oVw

The focus on ex-military and NASA personnel lends it a lot of credibility, in my mind.

Check out the day before disclosure, it's definitely the best on the subject.

Like another poster said, most "evidence" that could be indicitive of aliens could also be signs of an ancient human civilization that had advanced technology just as easily. For this reason, i consider the aliens and the ancient human civilization (older than what is currently "accepted") as one and the same. Afterall, who says aliens cant actuslly be humans from the past?

Any how, there are different categories:

Locations/Megalithic Structures--See the pyramids at giza, puma punku, the nazca lines, teotihuacan, titicaca, the temples of the mayans, aztecs, and other south american ancients, gobleki tepe, underwater megaliths of the coast of japan, india, and bahamas (and more).... All of these things (theres a bunch more. These were just off the top of my head) have certain things in common. A researcher found that several of these use the same exact unit of measurement, they dubbed the megalithic yard, in their construction. All of these are likely to be older than what current archeaologists are willing to publicly accept.. usually around the yrs 11800 or 9000 or 7000 b.c. You know, the end of the ice age era, and its interesting to note that comets hit the earth just before these dates, as well... Anhhow, All of these offer celestrial alignments within their construction, and they all use multi-ton stone blocks called monoliths, made from granite usually, the hardest rock other than diamond, all about the same time, the same way, and the same mysteries and folklore surrounding them.

This bring me to my second part, myths. Check out the dead sea scrolls, the book of enoch, and the ancient manuscripts of ancient sumer, which have the oldezt known versions of many ofbthe stories in the bible, thousands of years before jesus walked the earth (talking about the old testament...). Read about the annunaki that the sumerians talked about. Also, cross reference every flood myth you can find, zuisudra, noah, the white haired man in south american myths, etc. This is just scratching the surface.

Then, the third part, my favorite, genetics:

What do dogs, the potato, wheat, and corn all have in common? Well, before a certain period of time, they were not domesticated. Then, relatively overnight humans had them domesticated. I wont go into depth on these here, but their story is of great interest to me.

Also, the human genome. We have about 240 gene thst are not found anywhere else in the animal kingdom. And, looking at alll of the available records and fossils and such, there was a period where these genes did not exist, and then, on the evolutionary time scale they came about overnight. Now, it takes many many generations for one gene to mutate into something helpful for an organism. But, to hsve over two hundred arise all at once in such a short time frame? There is something unnatural about that. Again, i wont go into great depth here because my comment is slready massive. But this is highky intdresting to me as well.

All these things, when taken together, convince me they are pieces of one story, a story of some civilization, be it human or alien doesnt matter much to me. The lost history of civikization fascinates me, and the fsct thst the library of alexandria was burned by the romans infuriorates me. Just imagine what knowledge was burned! Ive akways felt they burned it to hide the true history of Man.

Agreed with everything you said. You can add Cortez burning virtually every text he could get his hands on in South America, too.

I've always thought it interesting, though, to consider that maybe the Library of Alexandria and some of the other "burned" ancient texts actually weren't destroyed after all. Maybe that was just a cover story - maybe they're all still around. I just find it hard to believe that the people running the show back then would have wanted those things to be destroyed. Knowledge is power (as those who have power, I'm sure, would agree).

I consider mass book burnings to be one of the greatest crimes against history. Makes me wonder if the knight templars crusades were for similar reasons, to kill off any evidence. Our invasion on iraq, same deal.

But i agree with you. In all probability, those who lit the match probably copied the info ajd passed in on through esoteric societies like skull and bones, freemasons, or the illuminati. Thats my guess anyhow...

I agree that we know very little about our own history.
If we accept a very conservative view of how long modern humans have existed, say 50,000 years, we only have, so far, been able to date so far discovered sites of civilizations back about 10K years.

That expertise and knowledge was not identical to what exists now does not automatically mean that those civilizations were less knowledgeable, only that different technologies prevailed. It is quite easy to imagine various catastrophes that could have caused periodic fresh starts, made by smallish numbers of survivors, given both the nature of humans and the nature of our planet as a system, that is also part of a larger system, and so on.

Your comment reminded me of that show about what happens after humans are gone and how long it takes for all signs of civilization to widdle away to nothing. It was an intriguing show, and is supportive of your comment.

Also, id consider fifty thousand years very conservative, as there is evidence of modern humans going back 400,000 yrs ago, but most scientists consider 200,000 yrs ago more accurate. (The 400k figure was from a recent human skeleton that is thought to be from that long ago, but i dont think they have come to accept it or prove it yet...)

But your point stands. We think civilization started a mere seven thousand yrs ago un sumer, while all it takes is ten thousand yrs for our current civilization to turn to dust in the wind and be nonexistent. Fifty thousand yrs is a loooong time, several civilizations couldve come and gone in that time. I feel, it is more likely (in regards to aliens) that a past civilization got to the space age themselves and sought refuge in the heavens from some earth shattering cataclysm or something. No need for interstellar travel, no need to redefine our understanding of the laws of physics, no wormholes, and, with potentially tens of millenia and thousands of generations, the body can evolve to its surrounding which would be zero gravity (and no sunlight, could evolve into smaller, weaker, greyer humans....).... I feel im going on a tangent.

But yea. I agree with your comment.

Yes, embrace uncertainty, (admit we don't know much), and barge ahead, keep asking questions. Feeling certain about something is probably the best indicator, more information is needed.

i think the Drake Equation is pretty convincing. other than that, there are amino acids in comets and there might be intergalactic amino acids.

http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci.com/files/styles/article_image_big/public/images/2013/06/H2_01_03_dalek.jpg?itok=qqgpYf2-

Here is an expanded version of the Drake Equation containing the proposed "Dalek" variable.

This is to simulate the reduction in alien life by a civilisation being destroyed by more advanced groups.

fucking geoblocking

http://imgur.com/tLbFui6

but wouldn't a conquering civilisation also increase the number of planets with communicative abilities too?

Depends how they conquer - do they stay and enslave or suck the planet dry of whatever resource they need? My guess is both types of civilizations are out there right now. If not in this galaxy, then in another.

at the very least there should be an increase in noise while the conquering takes place? i would think conquering the milky way would take a decent amount of time, conquering from another galaxy even longer.

also would a timelord function with a value of 1 render the dalek function void?

Resources? What would we have that couldn't be found elsewhere? I don't someone would make that travel to be malicious.

Imagine, for a moment, that a civilization has mastered the technology of solar power to the point that they can suck the solar energy from an entire star without breaking a sweat. In fact, they can do it without risking any lives, by deploying machines to operate the ships which put the cosmic solar panels in place. The sun is the ultimate source of energy, and our planet just happens to orbit one. Just a hypothetical scenario, to answer your question!

The Drake Equation is worthless, from a science or math perspective. It's only use is philosophical. The amino acid point is very good, though.

You have proof of this? Or is this another ex cathedra type pronouncement?

Proof of what? The fallibility of the Drake Equation is in the Wikipedia article the commenter linked to.

The amino acid in asteroids information can be found here to start: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_meteorite

i think the philosophical argument offered by the Drake Equation is currently the best "proof" we have because of the lack of hard evidence.

I always refer back to the famous drake equation, numbers dont lie....unless the govt or big corpations are the ones putting out the numbers

the Drake equation is:

N = R* X Fp X Ne x Fl X Fi X Fc X L

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which radio-communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone); R* = the average rate of star formation in our galaxy fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations) fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space

here is considerable disagreement on the values of these parameters, but the 'educated guesses' used by Drake and his colleagues in 1961 were

R* = 1/year (1 stars formed per year, on the average over the life of the galaxy; this was regarded as conservative) fp = 0.2-0.5 (one fifth to one half of all stars formed will have planets) ne = 1-5 (stars with planets will have between 1 and 5 planets capable of developing life) fℓ = 1 (100% of these planets will develop life) fi = 1 (100% of which will develop intelligent life) fc = 0.1-0.2 (10-20% of which will be able to communicate) L = 1000-100,000,000 years (which will last somewhere between 1000 and 100,000,000 years)

Drake states that given the uncertainties, the original meeting concluded that N ≈ L, and there were probably between 1000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.

Taken from wikipedia here is the direct link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

At the very least, > 0.

If it is 1000 then the nearest civilization might be really far away.

But of those 1000 I would guess alteast 1 of those would have far more advanced technology than our own. Our civilisation is very young in the grand scheme of things (10000 years or so, and only the last century or two has seen vast advancements).

Yeah but what if that 1 simply doesn't give a shit about us because it is so much more advanced. Really my biggest reason for skepticism is that I think once a civilization reached a certain level of hyper intelligence it would begin colonizing in every direction as quickly as possible, essentially not much slower than it can travel which would be near the speed of light.

Since that time they've been finding that life can arise in places they did not expect before, so they still use that equation but it is my understanding the numbers are substantially larger now.

This does not take into account that we were hit by a planet the size of Mars greatly increasing our metal content by fusing the two interiors (increasing our magnetic field) and reducing the crust making metal more available (thus technology more likely). It also does not take into account that intelligence is no more a tool than a claw. It is only by chance that our early ancestors developed opposable thumbs then lost their trees due to climate forcing them on the ground and using those hands to survive - when they were not originally meant for tool using but for climbing - as survival goes. Or the earlier destruction of the dinosaurs. This of course leaves many planets that could of gone through the same situations - but less.

However, if the speed of light is, in fact, an absolute limit, it is quite unlikely that we will come across any of them for quite some time.

No. There are other means of travel. Stop parroting what you hear on youtube.

I don't know of any non-hypothetical methods of FTL travel. Do you?

wormholes for one? But we cannot even hope to create the energy necessary. As well as probably many other loopholes we find around the light speed problem. Could also take advantage of gravitational effects. But its a lot of theoretical science. Either way, I know science knows of a few theoretically, and we will discover more. It's just a matter of how much energy we can manipulate, and right now, well, fossil fuels! What can I say, maybe a while after we remove that bullet in the kneecap.

Wormholes are hypothetical. There are some valid solutions to the GR equations that allow them and some that do not. We have no evidence of their existence, just a theoretical framework that might allow them.
Also, you cannot use a wormhole travel back in time to before the wormhole was created, and since traveling FTL is the same as traveling back in time, one cannot travel FTL until the wormhole is already in place.
This means that if one chooses a destination, they still cannot reach that destination faster than light until they have reached it slower than light to create the wormhole. Wiki article

Point being, it is extremely difficult if even possible to travel faster than light, and anybody telling you we have more than hypotheses on its possibility is not being truthful. It is entirely possible that it just can't be done.

Those numbers are totally arbitrary.

Phil Schnieder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xedmfAgx8eg

Thank you. I watched a video on this guy years ago and lost his name to time. Thank you.

Please download the video in case youtube ever wipes it.

Keepvid.com

You are correct and I shall.

If you haven't heard of him yet, Andrew Basiago recently came out with a pretty crazy fucking story too. Check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGp6R3uExc

I am more skeptical of Basiago but I do hear everyone out. Still highly speculative but if you're interested, you can find more info at /r/Chrononaut

Cool! Thanks! I'll check this out tonight.

I'm not sure if anyone has posted these yet but here you go:

this video is the canadian minister of defence saying "holy shit aliens are real" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt1WVeyMqdo

The Disclosure Project: a bunch of goverment officials getting together talking about their CRAZY experiences in a hope to spread awareness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

Finally, I have seen UFOs before and I think it is much more common than people think. I challenge anyone reading this to go camping away from their big city, out of cell phone range, and watch the stars. Maybe take one of those laser pointers that goes miles up with you and point it around. (not at airplanes duh) I swear I have done this on a few occasions and had my mind blown by some of the things i saw. and i know what i saw. and i dont care if you believe me. but I want people to try for themselves because it is INTENSE.

edit: I was in Washington state all 3 times I saw what i saw. I don't know if that has anything to do with it lol. Ive always been a believer and i was 20 years old before i saw anything. I just never would have thought its that easy.

I really really really want to do this, I live in a big city and the light pollution here is atrocious, I see maybe 15 stars in the night sky :(

Where do you live? i live in portland oregon. I honestly think it can be done anywhere. as long as you are far away from the cities. My logic is basically that when they are flying, they can see huge cities in the distance just like we can. and they know to avoid these places otherwise people by the thousands would see them and record them a lot more often than they already do lol. so they know to hang out in the middle of nowhere so they can fly around and do whatever they want. because when me and my cousin were camping FAR out in washington on some mountain and we went for a walk in the middle of the night around 11pm and you could see all the stars. as we made it out of the trees though into a clearing my cousin told me to look up and we some what basically looked like moving stars in outer space. some people might claim "satellites" but no. there were at least 15 of them in different parts of the sky. some flying in triangle formations, some flying circularly, and zig zagging. satellites go in one direction. but anyway we watched for like 10 minutes pretty much shitting ourselves. where it gets a little more unbelievable is that my cousin started flashing his weak ass flash light at them on and off and after a short time one flew over us in our atmosphere. we were watching them in space, and then one responded by flying right over the trees. literally, a split of a second. no noise. if I had blinked or turned slightly, i would have never seen it. that was it for us. we pretty much lost our minds. this all took place over like 40 minutes. So I went to radio shack and bought one of those green laser pointers for 60 bucks. went camping this summer and saw some other shit that was pretty intense. Basically im a fanatic now about it. It is THAT easy. I honestly don't care if they are aliens or humans in spaceships. but i for sure saw UFOs.

Thanks!!!

canadian minister of defence

FYI, Hes not talking about anything he learned on the job, he got that from reading a book which even UFO believers say is fake so take his testimony with a large pinch of salt.

ya the part about praying mantis aliens was a bit of a stretch for me too but im not gonna rule it out because this world is crazy as fuck and anything is possible. but also in the video he talks about how he received UFO reports but didn't think much of them. and then he got the book. and then he called his friend who was high ranking who said that everything in the book is true and more. Phillip J Corso was also high ranking and he wrote that book.

Evidence for anything can be be denied. And really, what can ever truly be known? All we'll ever have is our best understanding of things, and that will never be the best understanding of things.

Understanding grows in the space fear once resided. If you want wisdom, be fearless in your pursuit of it.

I look at it this way...

Who would be the most reputable source, one that would likely have come in contact with aliens? Astronauts on their space missions, no?

Considering how many of the astronauts on the Apollo and Gemini missions have made claims that all but confirm it... I'd call that proof in my books.

It's fairly well-accepted that big governments know but withhold the information. So we have to look for sources outside that.

Check out Marshall Vian Summers. He claims to be channelling from friendly aliens that would like to help us. I realize this sub is mainly young men who will have a kneejerk negative reaction to "channelling," but Summers gives the best explanation I've heard about why the unfriendly aliens are here and what they want with planet earth. And I've been interested in, and reading on this topic for 40 years.

Can you elaborate at all? I'm curious as to what conclusions you've drawn after 40 years of research (I still have a ways to go to catch up to that).

The upshot is that we are in very deep doo-doo. We are like the Native Americans when Europeans arrived: natives being overtaken by a far more technologically advanced people. It didn't go well for the native Americans and it's not going well for us.

The astonishing thing is that people are so terrified of being laughed at that they would rather deny all the evidence and surrender passively to the invaders than speak up and be laughed at! And the invaders know that about us, they've got our number. Why do you think the very mention of ufos, aliens or spaceships is cause for giggles? To keep people from organizing a resistance.

Planet earth may well be surrendered without any significant effort made at all to hold on to it, due to man's intense fear of being laughed at. We could be enslaved here, just as Native Americans were made 2nd class citizens on the land their ancestors lived on for thousands of years. But the plans of the aliens are far more evil. They are not human, they have zero compassion and if we do not serve them we will be eliminated.

I've come across some similar things myself.

What do you think of the idea that there are both benevolent and malevolent species of ET's here?

Also, what do you think they're using us for? I've read things along the lines of them "harvesting negative energy" or using mankind as some type of food or energy source in other ways.

If any or some of that is true, it makes me think that there must be something about Earth or us humans that's really, really special. If a technologically superior race from another planet/galaxy/dimension/etc. is keeping us alive rather than wiping us out when they likely have the means to do so, there must be a reason for it.

If nothing else, talking about this stuff is interesting to me - I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

Also, what do you think they're using us for?

We're not special, but Earth is. Most of them destroyed their home planets just like we're about to destroy ours. So they have to steal a planet that can support life from someone else -- in that brief interval between when we are evolved enough to have global communication but before we've trashed the place.

Edit: Anyone who spends much time in this sub can see that we're heading for a global fascist dictatorship. Who do you suppose is at the apex of the pyramid? And has the patience to enact a plan that takes centuries to bring to completion? Only a non-human entity.

Criminals generally want instant gratification -- for themselves. They rob a bank so they can get hookers and cocaine that night. Yet here we have a plan to enslave humanity that takes centuries.

Who do you suppose is at the apex of the pyramid? And has the patience to enact a plan that takes centuries to bring to completion? Only a non-human entity.

I tend to agree with your line of reasoning here. I remember reading somewhere that it isn't the capstone of the pyramid that's really important but what's in the tunnels underneath. Not really sure where I'm going with that but I think that it somehow fits into the "it isn't the humans at the top of the pyramids who actually matter; the true power remains completely hidden" idea and can also be related to DUMB's, "the runaway civilization", the bearer bonds scandals and the like.

It's just so difficult to know for sure with all the lies, half-truths, misinterpretations, fallacies, etc. that one runs into when researching this type of stuff.

Like I said, check out Marshall Vian Summers. Specifically chapter 10 of his book Great Waves of Change. He lays it all out.

I honestly don't know if the guy is for real. If he is, I wonder why they haven't taken him out. But his prophecies so far are coming true.

I totally believe there is good and bad aliens. in the videos I listed earlier in this, there are government officials talking about different species of aliens. Grey aliens are commonly reported to abduct people and conduct weird test probably for evil purposes. but there is supposedly a species that looks just like humans and could walk by you and you wouldnt even know. I believe the are probably our ancestors. And I have a hard time thinking they would enjoy seeing us suffer. Other aliens I have heard do enjoy our suffering. In China they boil dogs ALIVE because they believe the more they suffer the better they taste. maybe it is something like that idk lol. they enjoy our adrenaline that is created. In the past there was this event in Nuremberg Germany in 1561 where UFOs were seen by an entire town of people and the UFOs were fighting each other in the sky. I personally believe that the good and the bad are fighting for control over earth. And in our life time hopfully the good will win. But I have heard a lot of positive things about aliens. in the disclosure project a bunch of high ranking military guys tell stories about how UFOs are checking out high profile nuclear installations. trying to keep tabs on our abilities to destroy the earth. because Aliens understand that what happens in our planet effects other planets and parts of the universe. and they don't want us to destroy our planet because it could have a impact on them. We have pretty much already PILLAGED this planet of its goodness so I don't see a advanced race needing our petty stuff. Just like we don't care about what ants do in there little world. But ya basically there is good evidence out there and it could go either way but i try to stay positive because i dont want to believe that one day an alien will have me for lunch, testis first.

my 2 cents :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8qGxRbGKnI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yb67zM1Sh-Q http://youtube.com/watch?v=DARcIIc4pCw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cm9tRCSjZ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Global news coverage of multiple events that appear similar. The light that descends in Jerusalem creeps me out the most.

The second half is an interview with a guy who claims to have worked for the government and calls into a radio program with a dire warning about the future. Obviously questionable lol

Old canadian homies.

I'm looking for undeniable evidence. Got any?

Every single piece of evidence ever produced has been denied. It takes no effort, someone says "that's not real" or "that was filmed with a potato" and you can't take it back, the thing has been denied.

Has it been rationally and intelligently examined? Who knows, but this particular well is thoroughly poisoned. All you can do is show people the things you find compelling, then hope they develop their own interest and go looking themselves. Once they have that, the aggregate of information that is available makes it pretty difficult to say anything but "oh shit, aliens".

There is no hard, undeniable evidence.

I know of a means to attain this evidence. Purchase both a security system, with HD camera(s) and a 1TB hard drive. Attach the security camera to a high powered telescope. Have the telescope auto track the moon. Have the unit set up on some high elevation area, and between the three days before & after the full moon. Zoom in with the full moon filling up the entire view finder. You should get some objects darting across the face of the moon, and often making right angle turns.

1) Personal experience. I grew up having gone through various things that I found out only many years later were described very similarly by others who themselves had contact experiences.

2) The accumulation of data and information that is out there is simply absolutely overwhelming. If even a small fraction of what's out there is true - and a lot more than a small fraction of it is true - then there is absolutely open and shut case evidence (nay, proof) that we are not alone, and are being visited.

[deleted]

When I was young, I had various experiences that were 1) very harrowing and unlike anything I had ever experienced before or since, and 2) very similar to accounts that other individuals have recounted as contact experiences.

I would lay down to bed at night, and before going to sleep, would find my body rendered immobile, and I would experience a type of weird "whooshing" feeling inside my head where it felt like my identity were being sucked out of my body. I would simultaneously be hearing what seemed like a thousand different voices talking indecipherably and approaching closer and closer. The experience was generally so absolutely terrifying that I would shake out of the paralysis and "pop" up with a start - my heart and adrenalin racing at a 1000mph. No later would I pop up, however, than I would be "pulled" back down and rendered immediately paralyzed again. This cycle would repeat over and over again until finally I finally lost consciousness.

It wasn't night tremors or sleep paralysis, by the way, because they all require first a state of actual sleep or unconsciousness before they come on. As I stated, I was awake the entire time until I finally went out.

During that same time, I had a series of "dreams" that were vivid enough for me to remember them to this day - three or so decades after they happened. One involved my laying down yet being suspended in the corner of a room and having a spindly, tan-ish brown colored hand with a few pretty long, spindly fingers on it examining my privates. Another involved my walking around through a corridor that only decades later I saw similarly depicted in various contact-oriented films, not the least of which was "Fire In The Sky".

This is a pretty abridged version of some of what I experienced.

What you described was a dream and almost the exact description of sleep paralysis, which you DONT have to be asleep first to fall into.

You're inability to understand what sleep paralysis actually is and is not - as well as your thorough lack of understanding of what I myself experienced - is indicated by how far off the mark you are from what actually happened in just the few short words you typed. That you came on here to offer such an empty "analysis" shouldn't even be acknowledged, but I feel it was important (enough) to, for the moment, at least let you know you're nowhere near as aware as you think you are of sleep paralysis or (and especially) the contact phenomenon in general.

Either way, your type doesn't seem to be the kind that could grasp or understand the existing data, so I'll let it be.

I have sleep paralysis and you described it exactly. I will sometimes slip into it before I ever fall asleep. Its quite terrifying. Big words and long posts also don't make you more correct.

I have sleep paralysis and you described it exactly.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that the only possible explanation for anyone else experiencing something similar to what you have is "sleep paralysis". I guess your sleep paralysis also involves visions of ET hands and ships that you never before saw but years later read and saw described by other contactees right?

Right?

Your sleep paralysis also involved that right? This was, as you said, "exactly" like what happened to you right?

Ohhhkay.

Big words and long posts also don't make you more correct.

Ignorance most definitely doesn't make you more correct - much as you might like to think so.

Sounds like a dream to me. Have fun getting mad at your computer screen.

Wow. You're so...clever and...scathing.

Relevant

I thought this was over. I guess not? Later kid.

Ohhhh. Okay. I see. I get it now. You're one of those little immature kids with an ego so tiny and fragile that you have to have the last word, right? Oh how cute. You came on here trolling, not knowing what you were talking about or understanding the topic at hand, and simply want to continue being a troll.

Okay then, little troll. You can go ahead and have the last word since I know that's what your little, ignorant, know-nothing ego craves so much.

Have at it, little buddy. All yours. :)

Here's what makes me a believer, think about it like this.

Throughout time there have been tales about non-human beings. Many of these tales reference beings that came from the stars or heavens. This has literally happened since the dawn of mankind, there are cave paintings in France, which depict alien like being and what appear to be UFO's. So fast forward to modern day and these tales still go on and in many, many cases the stories and descriptions are similar, even nearly exact.

So my point is this. If you don't give eye witness accounts any merit, that's understandable to a degree. I can see how it's easy to not believe an individual, but when you have masses of people...are you seriously going to tell me that EVERY person, EVERY single one who's reported an alien experience was either lying, hallucinating, dreaming, suffering from insanity or some other mental disorder, trying to sell a story or just being a troll? EVERY single person, EVER? In ALL the time periods and ALL the cultures that have these stories, ALL of them, liars? Really?

That's the part I find to be astronomically ridiculous. I honestly believe that if that is the case, that everyone who's ever had an alien story was lying, dream, hallucinating, etc, etc, then in all seriousness here, we, the human race, as a species have some SERIOUS ASS mental health issues to deal with.

The fact of the matter is this; if even just 1 person in all of human history was telling the honest to god truth about an alien encounter, then the phenomena is real. And I just don't believe statistically that there hasn't been at least 1 person in all of human history, sharing an honest, genuine, real encounter they experienced.

life on earth

We exist. You think were the only intelligent species in this universe? That's just arrogant

OP, it's a massive topic, so the best way to really "know" is to read some of the better books on the subject, such as anything by Jacques Vallee, "Above Top Secret: The Worldwide UFO Cover-Up," by Timothy Good, or "UFO's and the National Security State" by Richard Dolan. I'm currently reading "Messengers of Deception" by Vallee.

It's an extremely complex subject, with a massive amount of phony reports and intentional disinformation, amidst all of the legitimate cases. The government's own report into UFO's was called Project Blue Book, and it left a lot of cases unexplained.

Well there is the fact that there is a lack of evidence that they don't exist..soo......

I think a lot of people wonder daily if they will fake an ET invasion to bring about the final chapter of the NWO.

No need to fake it if the NWO was aliens the whole time.

True. OR if they had contact with the aliens that didn't give a shit about us.

Life is inevitable... Because of the amount of space in the universe and the amount of time that has passed, it is safe to assume there is alien life.

If that life has actually been to earth? I don't know.

http://www.capturingthelightdvd.com watch this if you can. This is my all time favourite.

At 16 I was rudely awakened to the fact that Other Intelligent Lifeforms (OILs) were with us. This fact sickened me because I realized my species was not smart enough to realize we were being watched and visited by whatever these lifeforms were. My knowledge was confirmed as an Air Force NCO watching alien craft observing military activities in broad daylight while not seeming to care if they were being observed by military personnel. I believe I have had countless encounters with these creatures since I was two or three, but I thought they were ghosts until my multiple UFO encounter at age 16. My faith has kept me whole - but I am a strong believer in keeping weapons for protection - including small arms. Too bad that most of us are closed minded. F. Carlton McLean, Jr.

With the special effect technology that exists I have trouble with anything on film. That only leaves testimony, statistics, and logic. I have seen two documentaries that compiled the testimony of senators, military running bases with nuclear arms, pilots, and the like. More evidence than God. These people have nothing to gain and plenty to lose. I can accept this. The cover ups by the "government" is evidence too. I mean like dropping flares in Phoenix 2 hours after the sightings for the media to film. What I find most fascinating about ET is that, or how, they advanced as far as they did without killing themselves off. Did their evolution have one more magic piece in their history that they formed a world government early on or did they suffer such global disasters that they had to cooperate to survive or did they take control of their future on their own or through intervention from ET? If we are to accept ET as real then we can garner that they are not in complete control of themselves; they may be able to travel near the speed of light (or faster) using anti-gravity and dark matter but they don't see the future (or they wouldn't be crashing and killing themselves). They seem peaceful and have a habit of showing they can control our weapons and tend to disable our weapons when fired upon rather than blowing us out of the sky. To some point they seem prepared to try and change or stop our destruction if we go that way - does that say anything about ET's thoughts on free will? It is a stretch to try and guess where their morality is if we believe they are in league with any governments such as the US - such as the this would be decidedly immoral in my opinion. But of course they can change the game at any moment they don't like the way their tech is being used. Getting back to the question of how they advanced as far as they did without killing each other (as Carl Sagan questioned) if survival of the fittest runs amok when we run out of natural battles for survival and move into the stage where we covet more money and power than we can use. Once the fox has eaten all the chickens he will eat the less advantaged foxes. Maybe if life starts on habitable planets through comets and asteroids then truly advanced life only occurs through intervention from ET. For what it is worth there is far more evidence, through credible living witnesses than there is of God. At any point it is logical that it will take humanity and empathy for humans to advance. Maybe the circumstances need to come about that put the chickens in charge. A foreshadowing of this is the small mammals that lost their predators when the asteroid hit us 250 million years ago. Evolution does not favor intelligence, it favors survival. It did, however, finally take intelligence to dominate the earth. Is this natural? The earth is obviously out of balance. On the other hand intelligent life is the conciseness of the universe. For this to occur evolution would have to be more than just a physical survival of the fittest. Gary

So, if intelligent aliens have been visiting Earth, why don't they contact us openly ? Why just make mysterious light flashes, or temporarily abduct drunks or crackpots ? They must have come a long way to get here, why not strike up a trade relationship or something ?

Very slow, probably getting us savages accustomed to the fact we might not be the end-all-be-all of the universe.

Hmm, are they revealing themselves more today than they were 50-60 years ago ? It's my impression that there are FEWER sightings today. And certainly nothing clearer than there were 50-60 years ago.

When it comes to alien life, I believe any argument that stems from motive is fallacious. They're too alien and there are too many unknown variables involved.

For all we know, if they have visited, they do what they do just to toy with us.

Hmm, as far as I know all life is driven to compete and grow and expand and reproduce, or else it would disappear. You think alien life wouldn't share those basic characteristics ?

I think the "fact" that they came across huge distances to get here shows that they must be quite a bit like us, in terms of motive. Their motive must be curiosity or conquest or trade, I'd think. Who would make such a huge effort just to "toy" a bit ? And if they wanted to "toy" with us, wouldn't revealing themselves clearly wind us up even MORE ?

There are too many unknowns here for such speculation. But there are many reasons even humans might visit a place without announcing their presence to the "lesser" species there.

You're asking questions that you know are impossible to answer definitively but if you would just use your brain for 10 seconds it would be easy to come up with possible answers to all of them (assuming, of course, that aliens do exist).

Sorry, I guess my brain is useless. Perhaps you could state those answers.

Interesting; since you believe aliens exist, what is your own belief based on?

I believe in aliens as much as I believe in the great Mother/Father God.

I have an idea that many who believe in Aliens, but not a God are using the idea of Aliens as a replacement for the Biblical belief that grants believers a natural superiority to non-believers. I believe there exists a need in many to feel superior to others and to justify discriminatory acts and oppression.

Ex: If I am not a creation of a God I can no longer believe in, but cannot think I am born of the same gene pool as all else on earth, then I must believe in Aliens, this is confirmed, for me, in the Alien believers not believing all of us earthling humans are those special genetic products of Aliens or that we are from different, and unequal, Alien origins.

My belief in aliens comes from reasoning and logic. The universe is so big that the odds that aliens don't exist are extremely low, if not non-existent. I think you're right about some people "replacing" God with aliens, but that would probably be less common than you think. I don't believe in any Christian God, yet I believe in aliens...the two are not related in my system of beliefs because aliens are in the reason/logic section ... and God is in the imagination section.

The next question is how did the Aliens you might be from originate?

I don't think recognizing the possibility of life elsewhere with greater knowledge automatically leads to our own origins, sure it is a possibility, but that is weak evidence, the possibility of life elsewhere being the foundation of a life here, earth, that originated from that elsewhere.

Also, check out Project Blue Book. The government has admitted that there are a lot of UFO sightings that can't be explained.

Anyone truly interested in a factual analysis of this subject should read two authors: Jacques Vallee and Richard Dolan.

What do you believe, then? We (all living beings) just sprang up from the dirt one day out of nothing?

What about the Drake equation? You think Earth is the only planet in the entire UNIVERSE that's ever experienced life?????

Earth is so special that we're literally the only place in existence that can support life? If anything sounds like a superiority complex to me, it's that mindset.

I am not in a fixed thought system, I don't think I know enough to claim I know anything.

Well I agree with you here. This seems a far cry from your other comment, though, where you imply that you don't believe in aliens or the "great Mother/Father God" and then proceed to psychologically analyze and diagnose all of those who believe in aliens but not God as having a "need to feel superior". I don't know, it just rung false to me and I think if you're going to make statements like that you should be prepared to defend yourself when asked how you got there.

Your two comments just seem to contradict each other, that's all.

And I don't know what you mean by not being in a "fixed thought system". I never accused you of being in one, whatever one is - I was asking for your personal opinions/beliefs.

I lean to believing I evolved from the earth's soup, that does not mean I completely reject the idea of Aliens, but I haven't found as much evidence for that as I have found for evolution on earth.

To me, not being in a fixed thought system means I do not believe there will ever be a final question, final answer.

We learn something and that changes what we know about everything else.

*add t to the end of thought.

I agree with your basic premise but I disagree with your conclusion. Just because we may never "know" the final question/final answer doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means we aren't looking in the right spot or asking the right questions. Truth is truth is truth, it doesn't cease to exist just because you or I or anyone else are unable to ultimately discover its true nature.

You are forgetting we are part of a system, a system that appears to be expanding at an increasing rate, constantly changing, and there is time, not the human version of time, the time related to that other information we have observed and call: mass, space, speed, light.

What ever you are basing your truth on never stops changing, how can your truth not change?

I prefer the word fact, since the word truth, used in a Biblical sense, may have no basis, or is it only that everything else had changed, while the belief of what is truth stayed the same?

Why would believing earth creatures came from earth automatically mean non-belief of life on other planets?

Have any of you seen the documentary, Sirius?

I've been meaning to watch it. The film presents evidence of extraterrestrial technology and possibly an alien lifeform. Not sure I'm convinced about the alien lifeform, but the documentary is professionally done and presents a lot of solid points in the discussion of "Are we alone?".

Would love if a bunch of us could watch it, and come back to discuss.

It's no good. :/. I was very excited for it, though.

I have him on tape! I have you on tape witnessing it!

The fact that we are alive. Life exists here why would it not exists elsewhere, what further proof does one need.

Sheer size of existence that we can even see. Improbable that we could be it. Damning of all.

I was feeling a little bit hungry, and then I saw your massive word salad and now the hunger is gone.

You like? You want fresh towel?

Aliens don't exist.

puma punku and baalbek

Lady Gaga

Ha!

No love for the lighthearted!

I saw that.. i usually dont entertain low-invest comments, but i made an exception cuz this one made me giggle outloud.

Sometimes you have to take a break from all the seriousness and just have a laugh!

That was my intention the whole time. I knew someone would chuckle.

Definitely not Ancient Aliens on H2.

Ancient Aliens Debunked

Lol that show is cool and brings up a lot of interesting points, but it's obviously a stretch more often than not.

What is a interesting thing it brought up?

Doesn't matter. Your post doesn't belong here. See r/ufos.

Are you joking? It could be the biggest conspiracy in the entire history of the human race.

Could be?

It is.

The ratio of upvotes to downvotes dictates that it does belong here. Maybe you don't belong.

my brother-in-law. he's a complete slob, a totally anti-social backward hillbilly. but. he graduated from veterinary school with honors and makes a bezillion bucks a year. he like dogs but hates all other animals. complains about animal and wildlife welfare support orgs. thinks the world would be better off with humans, dogs and sport species only.

there is plenty of eyewitness evidence of things that could be aliens

I see lots of guys who look like Santa Claus each year, too.

yes, and obviously you are observing the existence of something. i don't claim to know what ufos are, but i think your denying reality to say they don't exist. some take is as proof of aliens, but that is only one theory.

There is zero proof of aliens that cannot be explained by more mundane means.

Depends how they conquer - do they stay and enslave or suck the planet dry of whatever resource they need? My guess is both types of civilizations are out there right now. If not in this galaxy, then in another.

Proof of what? The fallibility of the Drake Equation is in the Wikipedia article the commenter linked to.

The amino acid in asteroids information can be found here to start: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_meteorite

No. He's saying that the question is about proof whether or not aliens exist. If you're defining aliens as life in the universe then only an Earth centric perspective keeps us from being classified as aliens. Us or any other life on Earth.

As others have said, our very existence combined with the vastness of the universe makes for a compelling argument that there is life on other planets.

It's a bigger picture take on the question. I think the confusion is coming from people limiting the discussion to whether or not aliens have visited Earth.

I have sleep paralysis and you described it exactly. I will sometimes slip into it before I ever fall asleep. Its quite terrifying. Big words and long posts also don't make you more correct.