Over past 14 days there has been over 30 anti-semitic posts on r/conspiracy. It's ruining this sub and distracting from real conspiracies. What is going on?
Anti-Semitic. A lot of the questionable content was at websites with names like "therealjewbeliefs.net" or "jewsdidthis.com". It's pretty obvious. Just look at the one on the new page from therebel.org.
Yup. There are theories that describe how the Anti-Defamation League (best friends with the United Nations, I believe) actually do actively try and equate the term "Zionist" with the term "Jew." I also believe they, and the founders if the Modern Zionist Movement, were the ones responsible for turning the term "Jew" (as originally used to denote ones religious afffiliation, i.e. "Christian" for Christianity) into a second use to denote ones race.
The term "Jew" was never before used or accepted as a race identifier, yet these agencies and movement leaders have fought hard to make the international community recognize the term "Jew" to be able to denote ones religious affiliation as well as making a new category for race. This leads to much more misunderstandings, and when coupled with the term "Zionist" with the double definition use of the term "Jew," we can see that the end result is the ability to play the race card whenever anyone says anything negative about the zionist movement (which, again, "Zionism" is not interchangeable with "Judaism."
As I've mentioned before, they are trying to limit damage by tricking their critics into criticizing smaller and smaller subgroups of Jews, until there is almost nothing left to criticize. It must be in the JIDF playbook, because we see it on a daily basis here, over and over and over.
That's two per day that you claim are anti-Semitic. Out of an average of 200 posts per day. That's only 1% and you would have a hard time proving that any of them are anti-Semitic. The mods delete the ones that are truly anti-Semitic so you don't even see them.
We're used to false claims of anti-Semitism by those that want to discredit this sub.
I could very easily remove this post based on rules 2, 10 & 11 but I'm not going to because I want people to see that it's people like you that are the ones that are really trying to ruin this sub.
Its weird that you find criticism of Zionist to be racist and antisemitic, but comments about people who want to have sex changes isn't, in your opinion, wrong.
At least he's not having a sex change like other whistleblowers (manning, Shayler etc).
You're allowed to say things that some people find hateful, and other people are allowed to say things that you find hateful. None of us are forced to agree with any of these things that anyone says, we aren't even required to find them hateful, antisemitic or anti-gay/transexual.
Please stop trying to fight this social justice warrior fight against "antisemitism", this subreddit is NOT about being politically correct.
We agree but you're misinterpreting my comment. I'm gay so not the most likely person to be transphobic.
My comment was a reference to a conspiracy that suggests the hormones of major whistleblowers are interfered with. So I didn't want another person added to this list as it would strengthen the likelihood that whistleblowers were being abused.
I don't mind honest, evidence based criticism of any nation, however, this sub has a wild and crazy obsessive hatred of Israel. Most posts just regurgitate the same old tired views, are upvoted to the sub's front page and become a "hate Israel" circlejerk. It's not genuine conspiracy research being discussed but instead it's a platform for xenophobia.
The fact that the moderators have to delete some Israel posts shows that it's even worse than I thought.
The fact that the moderators have to delete some Israel posts shows that it's even worse than I thought.
The mods delete the ones that are truly antisemitic, anti gay, anti white, anti black, pretty much anything calling for violence. The stuff we have to remove isn't dominated by "Israel". And the stuff we remove isn't going to be dictated by Israel.
Its not worse than you thought, you're over reacting more that you realize.
Free speech comes with a price, that price is having to choose for yourself which articles you want to read and not complaining about the articles you don't want to read.
Stop complaining. We appreciate your patronage but we do not appreciate your attempts so silence discussion about this specific content or any other content.
You obviously don't want freedom of speech here or you wouldn't be complaining about alleged "anti-Semitic posts". Or do you only want freedom of speech for yourself but not others?
accompanied by threats of course
I made no threats. I specifically said "I'm not going to" remove your comment.
Threats against those who write the truth, and the usual banning and quasi-shadow-banning of selected contributors. I expect to be banned myself sooner or later, because I won't self-censor, and I will write the truth.
I have taken a small hiatus from r/conspiracy, mostly due to my job, so im not up to date with the posts lately. Can you give us some examples of the posts you feel are antisemetic? That would help us answer your question better.
It is important to note that being anti-zionist is not the same thing as being anti-jew or anti-semetic. The term "Zionist" is NOT interchangeable with the term "Jew." This is a very common misunderstanding, and people will often see posts in this sub that are anti-zionist and immediately pull the racism card.
Thats not to say that there arent antisemetic posts to be found in this sub. I have seen a couple myself. But, the majority of posts that ive seen people label as antisemetic are actually anti-zionist. It is the misunderstanding of terms that i described above that allow for these situations to occur.
So, by giving us a few examples of what you think were anti-semetic posts, we can, as a community discuss it, and hopefully come to a common conclusion in regards to the possibly antisemetical posts...
I think we need to abandon the anti-Zionism defense and make an official statement that we are Anti-Colonialism. Any ruling class, oppressing the general population.
It would take a stickied post, a concerted effort on both the mods and regulars to report and respond, active banning of trolls, 'Tards and what, /whiterights? Our continued consent has been through not addressing the issue. These posters need to be downvoted into oblivion, despite whatever means they are using. Our front page is ridiculous.
I think we need to abandon the anti-Zionism defense and make an official statement that we are Anti-Colonialism. Any ruling class, oppressing the general population.
How about a statement that we are anti-socialist, anti-leftist, anti-atheist, anti-communist, anti-Marxist?
I did exactly as you said. A quick glance offers me no assistance in understanding which ones you found to be antisemetic posts. Just give us a few examples, the titles of the posts is all that is needed. It shouldnt be difficult if there were over 30 in the past 14 days that you thought were antisemetic.
The definition (from merriam-webster) of antisemetism is: the hatred of the Jewish people. These two examples dont show much of a hatred for a particular group of people, in my opinion. Though, the holocaust denialism that the first one is about sits precariously on the line between antisemetic and plain inflammatory. That OP felt that those five "facts" were proof that the holocaust couldnt have happened. I found his arguments to be very weak and unsubstantially defiant to his claim.
But, merely believing that the holocaust never happened isnt the same thing as being antisemetic, despite how often the two go hand in hand. This first example you chose to offer to me does not portray any hatred. It is just a discussion on why that OP believes the holocaust never happened, however weak his arguments were.
I read the second one, and i didnt find anything particularily antisemetic. It was basically just reporting on an article. Within the article, they say "The Jews," and if taken in context, they are talking about the jewish people as they relate to the zionist movement and the people of Israel. There wasnt actually anything that was defamatory or made with hatred in that post, just a report on certain meetings that took place, and the conclusions drawn thereof. Nothing antisemetic in there. (If you found something in that post that you saw was blatantly antisemetic, please tell me which part, as i did not find any.)
I suspect the other posts you have issues with are going to follow this pattern. As ive mentioned before, many people complain about antisemetism here, but when you actually look at the content that they have issues with, it turns out that the content only offended them because it either reports information about events of the jewish people, of the zionists, and/or of the people of israel. Often, this information is not favorable to those groups' image. Yet, it is not antisemetic unless it conveys hatred for the jewish people.
Other people claim antisemetism is used when discussion take place on the topic of holocaust denialism. Holocaust denialism isnt inheritedly antisemetic. It only becomes antisemetic when those who entertain the idea use it to purposely convey their hatred of the jewish people.
Ill give an example, and you will see the parallel:
"In america, the percentage of adults over the age of 20 years old who are obese is around 36%."
This is just reporting on statistics, and the claim itself is not Anti-American.
"Americans are a bunch of fat, lazy people. They dont deserve to satisfy their gluttony when one third of the people in the world face starvation. They are all evil and should be destroyed. I hate them all."
This second one is an example of Anti-Americanism. The difference between the two statements should be obvious, and parallels what happens when people complain about antisemetism. Often times people will take the first example type and be offended by what is said, and claim antisemetism where there is none. This actually occurs much more often than not, and i fear your issues are aligned with this type of mentality.
(Then there are those that claim antisemetism just because someone else used the word "Jew" or "Zionist." Without any consideration of the context in which those terms were applied, they call antisemetism immediately and fervently persue retribution. This, based on my observations, happens more often than legit claims of antisemetism, but less often than claims of antisemetism due to the misunderstanding of the context or terms, or the ignorance beheld by the claimant of the use of antisemetism.)
Unless you can provide more details that prove blatant antisemetism, i can only conclude that you are possibly being over-sensitive.
Im sorry that my worded comment was too much for you to comprehend.
Holocaust denialism in and of itself is not inherently antisemetic, despite its often use as a tool for antisemeticism. Holocaust denialism can be discussed without hatred towards the jewish people.
Actually, there are many jews who are against zionism. During the modern zionism movement's beginning, and even to this day, there are high level rabbis in Judaism that were/are fervently against the Zionism movement. I have a link to a website authored by a Jew who explains all of this in great detail, if you are interested.
I'm someone who genuinely believes that American Jews control the media, and use the media to their own advantage, and much worse than this, use the media -- our media -- to injure non-Jews, specifically white Christians, by poisoning the self-image of whites and training white children to hate themselves.
Now, believing as I do this to be absolutely true, is it strange that I might feel something less than sweetness and light toward these American Jews? Who are trying to destroy my entire fucking race? I think it is quite reasonable that I point out Zionist lies, Israeli crimes, and Jewish deceptions, whenever and wherever I see them.
29 comments
6 [deleted] 2014-01-18
Anti-semitic, or anti-zionist? Did being anti-nazi mean one was also anti-German?
2 Myconspiracyname 2014-01-18
Anti-Semitic. A lot of the questionable content was at websites with names like "therealjewbeliefs.net" or "jewsdidthis.com". It's pretty obvious. Just look at the one on the new page from therebel.org.
1 [deleted] 2014-01-18
[deleted]
2 strokethekitty 2014-01-18
Yup. There are theories that describe how the Anti-Defamation League (best friends with the United Nations, I believe) actually do actively try and equate the term "Zionist" with the term "Jew." I also believe they, and the founders if the Modern Zionist Movement, were the ones responsible for turning the term "Jew" (as originally used to denote ones religious afffiliation, i.e. "Christian" for Christianity) into a second use to denote ones race.
The term "Jew" was never before used or accepted as a race identifier, yet these agencies and movement leaders have fought hard to make the international community recognize the term "Jew" to be able to denote ones religious affiliation as well as making a new category for race. This leads to much more misunderstandings, and when coupled with the term "Zionist" with the double definition use of the term "Jew," we can see that the end result is the ability to play the race card whenever anyone says anything negative about the zionist movement (which, again, "Zionism" is not interchangeable with "Judaism."
0 modbuster 2014-01-18
As I've mentioned before, they are trying to limit damage by tricking their critics into criticizing smaller and smaller subgroups of Jews, until there is almost nothing left to criticize. It must be in the JIDF playbook, because we see it on a daily basis here, over and over and over.
2 SovereignMan 2014-01-18
That's two per day that you claim are anti-Semitic. Out of an average of 200 posts per day. That's only 1% and you would have a hard time proving that any of them are anti-Semitic. The mods delete the ones that are truly anti-Semitic so you don't even see them.
We're used to false claims of anti-Semitism by those that want to discredit this sub.
I could very easily remove this post based on rules 2, 10 & 11 but I'm not going to because I want people to see that it's people like you that are the ones that are really trying to ruin this sub.
-1 Fuckyousantorum 2014-01-18
Freedom of speech alive and well on r/conspiracy, accompanied by threats of course.
4 Flytape 2014-01-18
Its weird that you find criticism of Zionist to be racist and antisemitic, but comments about people who want to have sex changes isn't, in your opinion, wrong.
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1vh9rz/julian_assange_reacts_to_obamas_nsa_speech_slowly/cesm6zd?context=3
This is how freedom of speech works.
You're allowed to say things that some people find hateful, and other people are allowed to say things that you find hateful. None of us are forced to agree with any of these things that anyone says, we aren't even required to find them hateful, antisemitic or anti-gay/transexual.
Please stop trying to fight this social justice warrior fight against "antisemitism", this subreddit is NOT about being politically correct.
Thanks and have a good day.
2 modbuster 2014-01-18
Well said. Now mean it, and stick to it.
0 Fuckyousantorum 2014-01-18
We agree but you're misinterpreting my comment. I'm gay so not the most likely person to be transphobic.
My comment was a reference to a conspiracy that suggests the hormones of major whistleblowers are interfered with. So I didn't want another person added to this list as it would strengthen the likelihood that whistleblowers were being abused.
I don't mind honest, evidence based criticism of any nation, however, this sub has a wild and crazy obsessive hatred of Israel. Most posts just regurgitate the same old tired views, are upvoted to the sub's front page and become a "hate Israel" circlejerk. It's not genuine conspiracy research being discussed but instead it's a platform for xenophobia.
The fact that the moderators have to delete some Israel posts shows that it's even worse than I thought.
1 Flytape 2014-01-18
The mods delete the ones that are truly antisemitic, anti gay, anti white, anti black, pretty much anything calling for violence. The stuff we have to remove isn't dominated by "Israel". And the stuff we remove isn't going to be dictated by Israel.
Its not worse than you thought, you're over reacting more that you realize.
Free speech comes with a price, that price is having to choose for yourself which articles you want to read and not complaining about the articles you don't want to read.
Stop complaining. We appreciate your patronage but we do not appreciate your attempts so silence discussion about this specific content or any other content.
3 SovereignMan 2014-01-18
You obviously don't want freedom of speech here or you wouldn't be complaining about alleged "anti-Semitic posts". Or do you only want freedom of speech for yourself but not others?
I made no threats. I specifically said "I'm not going to" remove your comment.
1 modbuster 2014-01-18
Threats against those who write the truth, and the usual banning and quasi-shadow-banning of selected contributors. I expect to be banned myself sooner or later, because I won't self-censor, and I will write the truth.
1 strokethekitty 2014-01-18
Im wondering the same thing as u/dyrnwynsk.
I have taken a small hiatus from r/conspiracy, mostly due to my job, so im not up to date with the posts lately. Can you give us some examples of the posts you feel are antisemetic? That would help us answer your question better.
It is important to note that being anti-zionist is not the same thing as being anti-jew or anti-semetic. The term "Zionist" is NOT interchangeable with the term "Jew." This is a very common misunderstanding, and people will often see posts in this sub that are anti-zionist and immediately pull the racism card.
Thats not to say that there arent antisemetic posts to be found in this sub. I have seen a couple myself. But, the majority of posts that ive seen people label as antisemetic are actually anti-zionist. It is the misunderstanding of terms that i described above that allow for these situations to occur.
So, by giving us a few examples of what you think were anti-semetic posts, we can, as a community discuss it, and hopefully come to a common conclusion in regards to the possibly antisemetical posts...
0 redditeditard 2014-01-18
I think we need to abandon the anti-Zionism defense and make an official statement that we are Anti-Colonialism. Any ruling class, oppressing the general population.
It would take a stickied post, a concerted effort on both the mods and regulars to report and respond, active banning of trolls, 'Tards and what, /whiterights? Our continued consent has been through not addressing the issue. These posters need to be downvoted into oblivion, despite whatever means they are using. Our front page is ridiculous.
1 modbuster 2014-01-18
How about a statement that we are anti-socialist, anti-leftist, anti-atheist, anti-communist, anti-Marxist?
0 redditeditard 2014-01-18
Because not most of us are?
2 GodBlessAdolfHitler 2014-01-18
I'm all those things and A transracial communist transvestite. It'd be best if you spoke for your self, i.e., check your privilege.
1 redditeditard 2014-01-18
Obvious troll is obvious.
You do know that conspiratard regularly cites your user name as "proof" of our racial hate, right?
-3 Fuckyousantorum 2014-01-18
Simply search r/conspiracy using the word 'Jew' and sort results by month and you'll see them all. They are 100% anti-Semitic.
1 strokethekitty 2014-01-18
I did exactly as you said. A quick glance offers me no assistance in understanding which ones you found to be antisemetic posts. Just give us a few examples, the titles of the posts is all that is needed. It shouldnt be difficult if there were over 30 in the past 14 days that you thought were antisemetic.
-3 Fuckyousantorum 2014-01-18
Try this one...
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1vgl0x/dismantling_the_largest_zionist_conspiracy_5/
And this http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1veypa/haaretz_zionist_central_command_reunion/
I could go on and on. I find virtually all of them prima facie anti-Semitic.
1 strokethekitty 2014-01-18
The definition (from merriam-webster) of antisemetism is: the hatred of the Jewish people. These two examples dont show much of a hatred for a particular group of people, in my opinion. Though, the holocaust denialism that the first one is about sits precariously on the line between antisemetic and plain inflammatory. That OP felt that those five "facts" were proof that the holocaust couldnt have happened. I found his arguments to be very weak and unsubstantially defiant to his claim.
But, merely believing that the holocaust never happened isnt the same thing as being antisemetic, despite how often the two go hand in hand. This first example you chose to offer to me does not portray any hatred. It is just a discussion on why that OP believes the holocaust never happened, however weak his arguments were.
I read the second one, and i didnt find anything particularily antisemetic. It was basically just reporting on an article. Within the article, they say "The Jews," and if taken in context, they are talking about the jewish people as they relate to the zionist movement and the people of Israel. There wasnt actually anything that was defamatory or made with hatred in that post, just a report on certain meetings that took place, and the conclusions drawn thereof. Nothing antisemetic in there. (If you found something in that post that you saw was blatantly antisemetic, please tell me which part, as i did not find any.)
I suspect the other posts you have issues with are going to follow this pattern. As ive mentioned before, many people complain about antisemetism here, but when you actually look at the content that they have issues with, it turns out that the content only offended them because it either reports information about events of the jewish people, of the zionists, and/or of the people of israel. Often, this information is not favorable to those groups' image. Yet, it is not antisemetic unless it conveys hatred for the jewish people.
Other people claim antisemetism is used when discussion take place on the topic of holocaust denialism. Holocaust denialism isnt inheritedly antisemetic. It only becomes antisemetic when those who entertain the idea use it to purposely convey their hatred of the jewish people.
Ill give an example, and you will see the parallel:
This is just reporting on statistics, and the claim itself is not Anti-American.
This second one is an example of Anti-Americanism. The difference between the two statements should be obvious, and parallels what happens when people complain about antisemetism. Often times people will take the first example type and be offended by what is said, and claim antisemetism where there is none. This actually occurs much more often than not, and i fear your issues are aligned with this type of mentality.
(Then there are those that claim antisemetism just because someone else used the word "Jew" or "Zionist." Without any consideration of the context in which those terms were applied, they call antisemetism immediately and fervently persue retribution. This, based on my observations, happens more often than legit claims of antisemetism, but less often than claims of antisemetism due to the misunderstanding of the context or terms, or the ignorance beheld by the claimant of the use of antisemetism.)
Unless you can provide more details that prove blatant antisemetism, i can only conclude that you are possibly being over-sensitive.
-3 Fuckyousantorum 2014-01-18
The more you write the less you make sense. Questioning the holocaust is as anti-Semitic as you can get
2 strokethekitty 2014-01-18
Im sorry that my worded comment was too much for you to comprehend.
Holocaust denialism in and of itself is not inherently antisemetic, despite its often use as a tool for antisemeticism. Holocaust denialism can be discussed without hatred towards the jewish people.
2 redditeditard 2014-01-18
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
Questioning any historical narrative is like, our thing, man....
1 modbuster 2014-01-18
Your lack of intellectual clarity is embarrassing.
0 [deleted] 2014-01-18
[deleted]
2 strokethekitty 2014-01-18
Actually, there are many jews who are against zionism. During the modern zionism movement's beginning, and even to this day, there are high level rabbis in Judaism that were/are fervently against the Zionism movement. I have a link to a website authored by a Jew who explains all of this in great detail, if you are interested.
0 modbuster 2014-01-18
I'm someone who genuinely believes that American Jews control the media, and use the media to their own advantage, and much worse than this, use the media -- our media -- to injure non-Jews, specifically white Christians, by poisoning the self-image of whites and training white children to hate themselves.
Now, believing as I do this to be absolutely true, is it strange that I might feel something less than sweetness and light toward these American Jews? Who are trying to destroy my entire fucking race? I think it is quite reasonable that I point out Zionist lies, Israeli crimes, and Jewish deceptions, whenever and wherever I see them.
0 Scoled321 2014-01-18
30 links or it didn't happen.