So, see ya tomorrow?

FYI: At least 4 users from r/conspiratard have been banned for linking that post to their sub and to r/subredditdrama... and who knows where else.

Why can't we just ban all of them? They are a huge problem and I see it as a pretty clear conflict of interest.

Sure, they will claim "freedom of speech" but they are still free to post in their own sub. What about freedom of assembly?

Why can't we just ban all of them?

All 20,000 of them? Even the ones that don't troll or break rules?

Why not? Oh what a dream that would be. If they are active in that sub, it stands to reason they are disruptive here. It's not often they actually provide a good counter argument.

A bot could easily identify and purge.

There are quite a few regulars here that also post over there in order to defend their beliefs in certain conspiracy theories. Ban them too? What about the people that discover that sub first but then decide it's too crazy then come here?

At least for now, we're just going to leave it as it is and deal with them on an individual basis.

Well you could say "going forward, as of now". Draw a line in the sand.

SEPARATE AND EQUAL!

It would be useless. A dedicated shill has multiple accounts. Reddit Enhancement Suite allows switching accounts in one click. Censorship isn't the solution. Rule 10 serves the shills.

We are drowning in a sea of shills, and you want to quit? How is that going to help?

The huge number of comments posted by shilldimension on that thread suggests there might be more than one person using the account.

Also this shill tag team must have +100 sockpuppet accounts (all with different IP addresses to make it look legit) to produce that many upvotes. We are talking shilling on a military-industrial scale, if you get my drift.

and or jidf scale, the 2 powers most interested in derailing nine1one threads, for some reason......................

He (dimension) actually replied twice to a comment I made, which backs up your theory. My other comment in this thread has a link.

Yes, that looks suspicious. And even if it is just one guy, it proves he was just churning out responses without making any effort at all. Just any old tripe to ruin the discussion, basically.

You have been a contributor for a while now, and it would be a real shame if you left.

We've had a huge problem with voting manipulation for years, this isn't something new. It's also a natural reaction to steer such an open outlet like /r/conspiracy, especially if the content is true and incriminating. You don't see the amount of downvotes /r/conspiracy receives in other subreddits.

However, while they manipulate the voting system, it's still a difficult task for them. You can bet your ass that they upvoted that top comment with multiple accounts. The best way to counteract their sabotage is simply contribute as much as possible to this subreddit, which makes your departure damaging.

I would ask you to reconsider and actually be more involved to at least make their "jobs" more difficult.

We should be submitting all posts to conspiratard also and put them to work.

thats a great idea. everyone should start cross posting.

that's a great comment. resource burn certainly can work against them, too. it's a way to combat the overall chilling effect they have on people's willingness to comment on or submit things. simply put, more (quality) commenting and more (quality) submissions. i can see how it not so simple, of course, in practice without intentional organizational efforts of one kind or another.

I really don't think the "manipulators" are that many, otherwise, you wouldn't see the thread receive 800+ vote count. It's a lot easier to manipulate the comment section though. The top comment has 200/100 which is a 2:1 ratio, pretty bad. Yet, it's #1 comment.

The general public is also more open to these ideas nowadays, and I really think that this subreddit is making a lot of progress.

I am new to Reddit. The whole up and down voting exercise isn't very important to me. The one time I was downvoted I actually asked why (in the Libertarian subreddit) since what I posted was factually correct. I didn't get an answer.

I guess I just don't get why people find up and down votes so important. I read the comments, reply to what interests me, and leave it at that. There seems to be a lot of wasted effort over worrying about up and down votes.

Actually, the problem /r/conspiracy has is unique compared to other subreddits. We have certain groups that intentionally downvote some content to reduce their visibility. It's not about people not receiving well deserved karma.

As you might know, much of the content here is very controversial, so it's understandable that they would manipulate it for political benefits.

I would add that I'm not sure I will be sticking around either. In one month online, I've found myself becoming much more coarse in my comments to people, as well as making judgments that I would never make in person. People are just so nasty to each other online, and so quick to judge. And it comes from both sides.

I just gave my opinion on one aspect of 9/11, saying I believed planes did hit the pentagon. I was personally attacked comment after comment for stating that opinion and giving some evidence that had persuaded me on that particular piece. I was treated horribly for not agreeing there was a missile, and immediately called a "shill" and "disinfo agent" among other things.

It seems this format lends itself to snap judgements, name calling and insular thought. I have many serious questions and doubts about 9/11 and who was involved. It is nearly impossible to discuss however.

Add in people who want to ridicule even having questions, and there seems to be little room to gain knowledge. Such is communication in this era.

... I've found myself becoming much more coarse in my comments to people, as well as making judgments that I would never make in person.

Yeah, we all go through that. You still need to remember to be as true to yourself as possible. Though I know that it's easier said than done. I've found many of my days get ruined by some insulting comments, and simple things like "retard" or "idiot" I actually find hurtful, which sometimes make me shut this damn page off. But if you're like me and enjoy a rational discussion in real life, then you should also let that guide you here. It's good to distance yourself from your ego as well and change your mind on things, which is still difficult as fuck, but good for you.

You need to know that the Pentagon incident in particular is highly controversial, even among those who shun the official story. A group called CIT (citizens investigation team) gathered testimony from eyewitnesses that turned the incident on its head even among "truthers" and there is still a huge split in the movement. They claim that there was a plane, but it flew over the Pentagon without hitting it, while most think it was a drone or a missile. If you listen to the witnesses' testimonies, you'd probably find it very reliable as many do. I'm personally split on the issue (literally 50/50) and distance myself from the discussion as much as possible.

Unfortunately, we've had a lot of what you might call "shills" or people with an agenda who create new accounts and try to sabotage the comments section. And you having a new account might have contributed to people suspecting you of being one of them. My account is much older, but I still got accused of being a shill last week by a member here for disagreeing with his economic ideas. He made a huge fuss about it, but it made me laugh, which is what you also need to do about the accusations. Some people are overly paranoid, which might affects their judgement.

That said, I've personally also accused some users of being shills, when I'm 100% certain that they are. I can give you at least one concrete example in a PM.

Wow, this turned out longer than intended. Sorry.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have already learned to avoid certain topics. I wish it weren't that way, but as you said...

I guess I shouldn't give up so easily. I'll put more effort into learning the ropes. I also just installed RES (thank you to the person that pointed me that way). Now I see all the up and down votes. It will be interesting to watch.

Ah. Intentionally trying to hide certain comments? Or just submissions in general? That makes sense now for my comment in the Libertarian subreddit. My comment pointed out one particular thing Obama was doing wasn't illegal (I didn't support it, just pointed out it wasn't illegal). I received dozens of downvotes, despite what I posted being correct. Obama is hated there, so my comment was seen as "pro-Obama". Voting it down hides the comment at some point.

The only comments I downvote are personal attacks or racist/angry comments. I upvote comments that challenge my position. I see it as up to me to make my point. The idea that people come here just to try to hide other people's comments is something I will have to absorb going forward.

Intentionally trying to hide certain comments? Or just submissions in general?

Both.

My comment pointed out one particular thing Obama was doing wasn't illegal (I didn't support it, just pointed out it wasn't illegal). I received dozens of downvotes, despite what I posted being correct. Obama is hated there, so my comment was seen as "pro-Obama". Voting it down hides the comment at some point.

That's still a bit different from what they do here. Your comment was more like throwing a lamb into shark infested waters, it was bound to be attacked. Those who manipulate the voting system here have no interest in the topics discussed. They do it to silence the content so less people see it. If you browse the "new" tab, you would notice pretty quickly after a while which content is targeted.

I have to clarify that this isn't only limited to /r/conspiracy, it happens elsewhere, while there's less censorship by the mods here.

If you leave they win.

The top comment I see has less than one hundred votes. It is a detailed comment covering one point of the movie. I see this as healthy. Why not just provide rebuttal, rather than complaining? The post seems to have a lot of detail, which is what the OP asked for.

The comment certainly isn't an all encompassing rebuttal. I personally like detailed conversation on the subject matter.

Well truth be told it wasn't an actual rebuttal. There was a 2hr span with no intercept and his response was "there wasn't enough time" when in fact the system is completely automated (15 mins at most to intercept).

I don't know that your 15 minute claim is accurate. The golfer Payne Stewart's plane was intercepted. It took 80 minutes (time zone shift must be considered). That's the example I used to use until I found out about the different time zones. I thought is was 18 minutes. It was really an hour and 18 minutes.

Do you have any examples of 15 minute intercept times? I'd love to be able to save those links.

The golfers plane was on autopilot and on course. Here is the intercept procedure:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0506.html

Yes. I understand that. They had lost contact with the plane, and asked for an intercept, same as if it was off course. I'm just saying it took 78 minutes for the intercept. You said 15 minutes at most. I was wondering if you had some real world examples, because I was shot down with my Payne Stewart example once the time zone shift was understood in the timeline.

Your information seems to be conflicting. The 1 hr 18 minute intercept time is due to change in EST/CST timezones. Apparently it may have been 18 minutes, but it's still being debated.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19634

EDIT:

According to NTSB logs, it was 39 minutes from ATC requesting dispatch to visual, but I do find a lot of varying information. http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Payne_Stewart

Chill out and come back tomorrow.

[deleted]

what else is new? this has been going on for years. just get some popcorn, watch and if you like, throw their shit back at them.

=]

So what if it's shit upvoted to the front page. Upvotes for visibility, sure. Of course shills and others will tear down whatever meaningful conversations are held here. So what. Stricter measures won't make things any better.

You want this sub to be a better place? Upvote New submissions, try to give them more visibility. You want better conversations? Don't feed into trolls.

Hey, good idea. Fuck it. Hey mods, if you want people to stay, figure out a way to keep us here. Pretty soon you'll be moderating nothing but trolls and shills until you give up on the sub yourself.

We can't have one regular conversation here. Not a single fucking one. So, trolls, good job. I suppose this is what you wanted. Peace out fuckers. You ruined the sub. Now pat yourself on the back and enjoy your brief little victory.

Edit: Yea, I dont even want the chance to wander back to this place. Fuck this account too.

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiracy] Hey r/conspiracy. Let's do a mass purge. 3 down so far, let's make it 100. Conspiratard dies if we die. Instead of sitting on this sub all day being angry that every conversation is tainted, delete your account and do something productive for the cause with your freed up time.

^{I am a bot. Comments? Complaints? Send them to my inbox!}

This is probably a good time to do this en masse. The trolls want people to make fun of. So this entire sub is just a huge waste of time because it's almost literally /r/conspiratard version 2, since they're always here and make up a large percentage of the members. How about we just all delete our accounts and grab picket signs, hand out fliers, etc...

This sub just serves as a ghetto for our ideas. Get out and spread the fucking movement. How long do we have to wait and bitch about it online? Fuck /r/conspiratard. They can shill themselves with all of their sock accounts. shills shilling shills. Let them keep themselves busy. I'm out as well. There's absolutely no reason to stay in a place that is unrecoverable. It's done. They won a long time ago.

The conspiratards have penetrated the mod list. At least one of the mods is a conspiratard plant.

On second thought, divide and conquer has worked for the conspiritards : /

Try and take your emotion out of it and realize it's just a game. The sub was gamed hard and that's how it works now. I have seen your posts and they are very good so please stick around, just remember that when we hit the front page - things will go sour fast. Pretend you are in a classroom of 10 year old, would you let them get the best of you? If there is a place that isn't yet compromised I certainly don't know if it.

I have always been in favor of an outright ban of anyone associated with conspiratard but we aren't there yet. The top poster in the thread you speak of, is a blatant $hill and is quite well known. If you actually corner him/her with facts, as I did they simply spew incoherent garbage, effectively drowning the good information out. This is exactly what the purpose is, so anyone 'grazing' the information will quickly lose interest.

So, take a deep breath and realize you are not going to 'win', ever. But if you can change only one mind, it's still worth it. You have posted some damn good stuff, so please hang in there.

It would be a bummer to lose you dude/dudette. It is a failed subreddit by design. The best we can do is hope to shine light on nearly 3,000 murders without the correct murderers behind bars.

That being said, I'm sure you know how many minds you've opened up to the truth with well documented research. I can only say I'll miss your content. You are one of the reasons this sub is good. Fuck the trolls.

Agree. Too many comments not related to the subject matter are spewed within seconds of the original post: "wrong spot, please post xyz.." WAAAAAAAAYY too many sub police (mods and mod wannabes). They all got a hammer - lookin for a nail.

I agree with everything you wrote, but your presence would be missed. It's a shame people can't discuss conspiracies without knowing they'll be harassed. The quality of the sub definitely suffers due to this as people self-censor.

Suprise, suprise.

You came back.