This must be the hardest hitting story to break in a long time, especially in regards to a website like Reddit. I'm very interested in seeing Reddits response to this and if this will result in any changes to the status quo. Glenn Greenwald needs to keep this up.
My first thought upon reading the Intercept article was to post this on their sub with a headline like: "I mean Glenn Greenwald, what a tard amirite?" Then I thought about the effect that would have on my inbox and pussed out.
I can't find it on the front page of any of the default subs. I've tried submitting a similar article to /r/news (everything else was already submitted and couldn't be submitted again) but shortly after i submitted it went into a black hole.
It started to, until it got removed and then reposted. Mods took the wind out of the sails in every way they knew: deleting for no reason, removing others on account of it being a "repost," then allowing some to surface and then tagging it with "opinion/analysis," and then finally letting one surface during the off hours knowing that it would get buried once people started posting new stuff in the morning. Oh, and I think the article that finally made it didn't even contain all of the PPT slides.
Being in a different time zone, I watched that shit show happen and it wasn't pretty.
I keep submitting these stories to r news and others so I can have evidence shall we ever need it. I document when I submit where else on reddit has that link been submitted to and how long it last before its removed. The stories I have done so far have all been consistently removed after and elapsed time after posting. 10 minute for EXAMPLE. Also all the post have had similar amounts of downvotes at time of removal. Unless there are people who sit in new and downvote these one after the other it can't be a coincidence that these all get a downvote less than a second after each other. I hope to reverse engineer or at least get some hints on what they are doing and specifically how so we can point and pick out marketers in comments and submissions from real accounts. Once I get a lot more data il post
Reddit can be manipulated easily too. If a suspicious world news story breaks, governments can distract reddit with planned posts to AdviceAnimals, aww, pics, etc. Surely they would have upvote/downvote bots at their disposal.
They could also distract or try to manipulate us with scheduled IAMAs. That dodgy Morgan Freeman one comes to mind.
It's bigger than the spying leaks. We know GCHQ and the NSA are best buds too of course. It really is telling that this didn't make it to the front page.
I recommend you all keep an eye out across reddit to see which subs censor this story and which allow it.
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable.
There's another submission of the same article in /r/worldnews that hasn't yet been taken down. Interestingly, that one actually has an editorialized title while the one that was taken down does not.
Edit: it's been put back up.
Edit 2: now the other submission, which was posted later but had more upvotes, has been removed. This is blatant content manipulation on the part of /r/worldnews mods.
Looks to me like the one they kept was posted before the one that was deleted? I guess that's kinda fair on whoever was the first to post the link in /r/worldnews.
Why so that the person that posted it first can get their imaginary points?
Who cares who posted the article first, the important thing is that the information is seen by the people. If the second one has blown up then let it run and don't manipulate it. Seems counter intuitive to delete or mess with the position unless you are trying to hide or bury something.
I personally think you're reading too far into it. Had they wanted to hide all this, both threads would have been deleted. As would this one. As would the countless other threads floating around Reddit about this same issue.
Edit: Added "Possible" evidence. This does not rule out the very unlikely possibility that this guy spent his whole day trying to spread the word about /r/news and /r/worldnews and then SUDDENLY decided to delete his account.
It used to be possible to check if a user was shadowbanned or deleted by checking the json; wherein a shadowban would populate the json and a deleted account would render a 404 error.
In summation, absent the original poster of those comments coming back under an alt we won't be able to figure out if he was shadowbanned or deleted himself.
I will say that when you see the username of a comment deleted, but the comment stands, it is often the case that the user deleted his own account. Usually as a result of constant PM abuse which goes ignored by the admins.
I mean this in all seriousness and without malice....What did you know before this broke? What conspiracy theory about this was posted here before? What information did you guys know that the average redditor didn't? Like, where are the posts about this on /r/conspiracy before this story broke?
Honestly is it a huge surprise. We all know companies have been for ages paying people to promote things online or blogs to have good reviews. It's no surprise a government is doing it too.
Are you asking me to do research for you that you could easily do on your own using the same system (computers and internet) that I would use? Do I understand you correctly? Do your own damn work.
I have no doubt these methods are being used at some level but it would be nice to see a real example with evidence. There must be documentation of specific operations with names and details.
It didn't come off as a joke. It's a very common theory here that Greenwald and Snowden are shills themselves, agents of a "limited hangout" operation.
A theory I consider likely to be bullshit disinformation, the sort of thing that is right up JTRIG's alley
Greenwald is not a shill, he is legit, Snowden is not a shill, he is legit, however someone inside wanted this information out, so put Snowden in a position to be able to do exactly what he did.
You better believe that Snowden was profiled to hell before he was employed by someone like Booz. So he was essentially allowed to get out, and the information was allowed into the public domain, they are trying to suppress the stuff that's a little more on the damaging side, but really, they want everyone to know they are watching, because a lot of people already knew anyways, anyone that mattered that is...
Now they can make people self-censor online for fear of the thought police.
You'd realise if the government actually did make a habit of destroying reputations of people on the internet most of the /r/conspiracy mods would be crazy nazis who rape babies by now.
That's not far from the truth. Not to that extent but it still happens. Some of us mods regularly come under attack and defamation is one of the tools used.
Rule 10 only changed in the sense that we clarified that calling someone a shill or a troll is also considered a person attack.
It has always prohibited against attacking the users, the community as a whole and the mods. The only reason that anyone is making a big deal about is because there was a change and the opportunity is ripe to try and stage a rebellion and continue to disrupt the community.
Let's "face it" every time we adjust to rules, the trolls adjust their tactics to continue to disrupt. And every time we adjust the rules we get a little bit closer to the best recipe of success. I can't help bit notice that this latest adjustment has really panicked the horde of trolls.
Here is the actual link to the warning you got, where you implied twice that I am a cunt. Your whole objective here is to disrupt this greenwald conversation. These rule changes were discussed to death in a sticky post a few days ago and now something as huge as this greenwald post is here and suddenly its a good time for you to start kicking a dead horse.
Its painfully obvious that you want to be able to scream SHILL! TROLL! RETARD! From your various accounts because it is a low effort way to disrupt.
Those days are over. Adjust your tactics or give up. Personal attacks will not be tolerated here.
The problem is your selective enforcement, the fact you are constantly snarky and then ban people for doing the same, and how you've managed to, over time, ban long time regulars. You can't be trusted.
The rules are intent on stopping dialog that is clearly designed disrupt the conversation. I dont care how long that person has been a member of reddit. This isn't a blue collar seniority rules kind of thing. Its about having tact, respect and application for peoples opinions and views.
Every program that I ever thought was used against US adversaries can now be understood/assumed to be used against all on the fucking planet. I was such a brainwashed zombie and trusted it would all only ever be used for good.
America needs to wake up. UK and other citizens of all the 5 Eyes need to wake the fuck up.
It is. I think back to programs I supported and how i thought they were for the war fighter and to save lives. Bullshit! I see now it's all for economic gain, power and control. The US just needed the public to buy off on all the costs. Sure, develop technology to "protect" the homeland. Now that it's produced and in the black world, so they can do what they please.
Interesting. I'm sure the contrarians encountered here are, all, 100%, just voicing their own views and not operating under any other agenda.
Harvard Law Professor Cass Sunstein, a close Obama adviserand the White House’s former head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, wrote a controversial paper in 2008 proposing that the US government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites, as well as other activist groups.
Sunstein also proposed sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups” which spread what he views as false and damaging “conspiracy theories” about the government. Ironically, the very same Sunstein was recently named by Obama to serve as a member of the NSA review panel created by the White House,
Well Stephen King doesnt remember entire books he has written, but he was also doing incredible amounts of cocaine and booze while writing those books.
You think that's bad? Another of Obamas White House advisors (the Science advisor), John P Holdren made recommendations in his book called Ecoscience that make this look like child's play.
• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation's drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who "contribute to social deterioration" (i.e. undesirables) "can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" -- in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational "Planetary Regime" should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans' lives -- using an armed international police force.
It may not be as bad as you think. You have to imagine that more than a few of those guys are on our side. Most people that I know with military backgrounds aren't considered pro government.
They're suggesting that these puppet accounts are created for the express purpose of shaping public opinion; not that there are just a lot of guys on an Air Force Base reading reddit during free time.
The fact that this is not on the front page speaks volumes. This might be it. The point of no return. If this story does not go viral on the internet then we know that they are in control.
They are in control and have always been. The Internet came from DARPA and they didn't release it to diminish their own power. Granted they were pushed by Fido and other grass roots efforts, but the idea from the get go was easy monitoring of all communications and the ability to propagandize with practically no overhead compared to analog methods.
Just finished reading propaganda by Edward Bernays and even back then in, what, 1919?, he talks about the exact same thing in how to sway public opinion. Nice to see nothing changes with time except the platform.
The Crowd, A study of the Popular Mind
by Gustave Le Bon. It was first published in 1895 so it has some serious biases. But if you can over look that there is some good information in it about how people become manipulated in large groups and how it plays out in social environments.
And
From Dictatorship to Democracy
by Gene Sharp are also good ones that are relevant to the books already suggested.
the above subs haven't organized a single effective action. all they do is argue about who to ban next for mean comments.
so even if the mods are acting in good faith (which i question), all the CIA needs to do is send a regular supply of trolls and they'll drop everything to deal with them. they leave themselves completely open to disruption by COINTELPRO.
i'm sympathetic to the idea of eliminating all intersecting oppression, but we gotta fry the biggest fish first. we're not effective when we're arguing amongst ourselves. we argue about cismen while the bankers leave us all destitute. is that how we win? i don't think so.
it's not fishy to anyone that the above subs haven't organized ANY acts of real life resistance?
Subscribed to /r/conspiracy after seeing the shitstorm on /r/worldnews earlier last night. I've always thought there was a lot of truth in conspiracy theories, and that the 'crackpot' theorists that came along with the rest were a worthwhile price to pay for the intelligent, if slightly paranoid scrutiny of the majority of conspiracy theorists. Like, keeping a check on things.
Also, I've never really committed to believing in theories myself - I've seen lots of very convenient concurrences but I would never say I had anything more than a vague hypothesis, and not much solid evidence...
But now in the wake of all this, I'm starting to realize that a lot of conspiracy theories are not only more real than I'd ever imagined, but could personally affect me instead of being some distant thing that might have slight consequences on my life through the economy, etc. but never really interact with anything I experience in a big way.
So yeah, new subscriber checking in. I'd really like it now if someone could tell me how I can best help protest these outrages. I feel like most of the time I see some big issue that should make me ultra-paranoid but instead I just grumble and feel passionate about it for the few minutes I'm reading the thread, but then promptly distract myself with everything else on Reddit and go back to being oblivious. (And that in itself seems like an unhealthy habit because I'm effectively training my own mind to be begrudgingly accepting of unacceptable news. Sort of like how every time YouTube updates, everyone says they'll take action, but no one ever does, so now YouTube basically knows that they can do whatever the fuck they like, and as long as they change things slowly enough, people will stick around because they're too lazy to feel strongly about changing anything...)
Anyway sorry, I get longwinded sometimes. I dunno if anyone will read this. Hope someone does I guess, but if not TLDR Hi! I'm new and subscribed!
When the people in charge have to resort to censorship they've already accepted and admitted that their argument, their philosophy, doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
The free flow of information will bring them down, that's why they're always trying so hard to limit and interfere with the information.
The term conspiracy 'theory' is designed to make people think nutters are just pulling stuff out of the air as some kind of weird hobby whereas the vast majority are regular people, some even academics doing real research and uncovering evidence (not theorising!) but don't expect anything to see the light in mainstream media no matter how clear cut, it's controlled and has been for decades if not longer.. see operation mockingbird on that.
So I don't know, that Wolfgang Halbig guy talking about Sandy Hook makes me think those in the right line of work may be able to get stuff done through legal means (if a judge can be found who is not corrupt). I've also heard talk of a possible coup in the US relating to the 260+ military commanders that were fired.
The rest of us, well I guess we have to be creative if we want to make a difference.
What was the shitstorm on worldnews? was it about Ukraine?
No, it was about this same topic of this recent Snowden leak, but apparently a lot of the stories covering NSA topics had been systematically deleted by /r/worldnews mods...
Yeah Im working on presentations that I hand out in my area in populated areas. I was also thinking about hosting some events as well. I think the best way to handle this is to think about your area of expertise and work from that angle in small ways little by little to bring about change. Trying to do big projects outright that have a huge time investment have a way of discouraging.
I have a hunch that sometime soon a lot of us are going to have plenty of time on our hands to do real activist work.
Fact: NO AMOUNT OF PROOF WILL BE ENOUGH FOR JOE SIX PACK TO CARE.
If anyone is to do anything, it will be the likes of those that believe the proof, until we are finally locked up with the other undesirables. By then it will be too late. Why even bother worrying about this anymore if not one person is going to do anything, let alone the millions that see the meteorite heading for us. It will hit. No one has the will to stop it.
Joe six pack doesn't care because he doesn't know. See, our neighbor Joe here goes to work everyday, and when he comes back home he is exhausted. Joe though wants to know whats going on with the world while he was at work. He sinks into his couch and flicks on CNN. Joe has been watching televised news for a while, he trusts this source. Or for his news, Joe opens up Internet Explorer 9 to his yahoo homepage and checks out the front page. "Oh Kate Middleton dressed her son up as a punk kid! How cute." Then Joe jerks off and goes to bed, only to start the cycle again in the morning.
Sadly, this is most of America. They receive their news from the propaganda machine we call corporate media. Think about this for a second, our government fucking pressured tech companies to install backdoors into their products... our government must also have the power to pressure news outlets into reporting what they want.
Laissez faire is a valid option. Let the rabbit hole get so deep in wide that nine tenths of mankind fall in, start it all over with a couple centuries of feudalism: we're bound to strike another golden age eventually.
Joe six pack will care when that next welfare check doesnt show up and he really cant find a job, the next big financial crisis is right around the corner that is when people will be ripe for revolution.
History is cyclical. Great empires rise and fall in the ashes of those before them, forgotten by men but remembered chemically. Maybe one day we'll get it right, but we're snowballing now. No sense in getting illusions of grandeur on a subforum.
OK So our tax dollars have been used to generate lies, manipulate conversations, and ruin reputations of innocent people or in their words " These online covert actions follow the “4 D's:” deny, disrupt, degrade, deceive." IT'S TIME TO END THE DEPRAVITY WHICH MEANS THERE IS NO MORE TIME FOR APATHY
Greenwald and Snowden are fighting the ACTUAL war we all need to care about. This is for the future.
We will either live in a 'perfect intelligence' police state -- that only creates the inevitable situation where some group with enough power can perpetually abuse the public interest (captive profits / rigged system) and redirect any attempt to organize and change the system (discredit and destroy people's reputations and livelihood), or we will live in a equitable and transparent society -- likely socialist, because robotic automation is making it impossible for everyone to pick up a shovel and be useful (just a glaring fact of the future few are addressing in the "jobs" debate).
Maybe if they get paid well, but not soul crushing at all? I guess they could say well I'm getting paid to feed my family....there's people who control Drones to kill people, i'm not killing anyone so they probably reason shilling on forums as everyone else is doing it now to. Iran and Russia are doing it so I'm a patriot for my country!....
Its same brainwashing as military use to get soldiers to do the dirty work of a few crusty old men who in the future will be young men who used technology to never age and keep controlling the world :(
there's the argument that the old creeps who control the policies will die off and we can move on to something better...if they keep on living longer, recycle em in and out and some plastic surgery lol
I think they are here. Just look at those that have been disrupting the comment threads with complaints about the rules here instead of staying on topic.
Speaking of which, I haven't seen that bot around lately that told us when we were linked to in another sub. I know it wasn't yours, but could we get that back if it's gone?
Obvious insider information on the safe-bet: "The Intercept". Who the fuck would invest that astronomical sum otherwise on a reporter who has been "harassed" by TPTB? Especially after what happened to Hastings.
The Hegalian Dialect is more like if I post an opinion that is polar opposite to yours in order to undermine your viewpoint. We had a guy here called "myconspiracyname" who did that very often. I'm sure he's still around somewhere.
What you're describing is what some people call "limited hangout operation". An old technique of exposing a minor misdeed to hide a larger one. Similar to how you describe it in your second paragraph.
A limited hangout is very close to a preemptive attempt at subverting the Hegelian dialectic which occurs in the hexis (on a cultural level).
Hegel has some notion of this society wide discursive process in the form of his history, but it's really not until Adorno and Horkheimer(and their descendants) that a fully fleshed out criticism of Bernaysian manipulation was really flushed out in proper historical context.
This makes sense, as Hegel was around before Le Bon started the discipline of PR.
That's some impressive knowledge on mainland philosophy that flies way over my head.
However, even though both phenomena fall under the same category of discourse, I still find them to be different enough to merit separate meanings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the HD uses a thesis and antithesis to reach a synthesis. Sounds different from waving a carrot as distraction from an underlying issue.
but the HD uses a thesis and antithesis to reach a synthesis. Sounds different from waving a carrot as distraction from an underlying issue.
The idea is that by positioning yourself in such a way wherein you entrench the thesis (as it emerge in history), you can subvert/obfuscate/weaken the emergence of the antithesis. Therein rendering an artificial synthesis which is nothing more than a control structure casting itself with a new face. In this way the form of the dialectic has been subverted and rendered useless.
Definitely. We have been screaming from the top of our lungs about shills for years. Yet again, we have something ancient confirmed. Even though it feels mighty nice to hear.
"Screaming from the top of [your] lungs about shills for years" and direct evidence finally being released to the public of NSA involvement in such activities are very different showing conspiring between GCHQ and NSA in such activities are very different.
Saying things like "I told you so, I knew it all along" only distracts from the importance of these leaks further and alienates people.
It wasn't my intention to sound like a know-it-all. It's just difficult to miss that many of the propaganda outlets online don't even hide it (example). Even outside of Reddit.
But one interesting thing to note here is that Greenwald's article incriminates the British intelligence agency GCHQ and not the NSA. I find that peculiar, even though I can't attribute it to anything.
I didn't think that was your intention, and almost deleted my comment because of that, and starting to think I was becoming the distraction.
But there's another comment on this page, I just saw: "Once again, absolutely nothing new here." This kind of attitude is counter-productive, and it's pervasive with Greenwald leaks - every time he leaks a new document, unseen by the public, people start staying "nothing new, etc."
Also, you're right, my comment about the evidence of NSA involvement is unclear/misleading. Although it is a GCHQ document, it was shared with the NSA, so there is NSA involvement, but to the extent is still unknown.
... This kind of attitude is counter-productive...
Sure, if you have an attitude of creating awareness, but not if you look for truth.
Curious, what you find peculiar?
We now have reports that show spying from Australian, Canadian, British (this case), Swedish, and other intelligence agencies worldwide. Note that all of these reports were gathered from the NSA alone. One obvious conclusion can come of it, and I'll let you make it yourself.
Haha, I think you know the answer already. The conclusion is that the NSA is connected to all these other intelligence agencies. It's not a secret, and the reason I made it into a riddle is that I think they themselves want you to know that their tentacles can reach to every corner around the world.
..my perspective on this is that the NSA is working (and paying in at least one case) these agencies to perform operations on American citizens so the NSA can claim plausible deniability, while NSA infiltrates the other FIVE EYE citizens, and thus GCHQ et al can claim plausible deniability there. Similar to this cooperation - this one really scared me.
You're absolutely right. As well as blaming the most incriminating leaks on foreign intelligence agencies. The worst one IMO was the spying on Brazilian corporations, which was done by Canada, not the US.
NSA Worked Out Deal With GCHQ To Spy On UK Citizens, Secretly Expanded It
from the funny-how-that-works dept
Early on in the Snowden leaks, it became clear that the NSA and its UK equivalent, GCHQ, had a very close relationship, sharing lots of data with each other. We noted a convenient potential byproduct of this collaboration: while, technically speaking, NSA isn't supposed to spy on Americans and GCHQ isn't supposed to spy in UK citizens, if they spy on the others' citizens and then share the results, they can get around that loophole.
But there's another comment on this page, I just saw: "Once again, absolutely nothing new here." This kind of attitude is counter-productive, and it's pervasive with Greenwald leaks - every time he leaks a new document, unseen by the public, people start staying "nothing new, etc."
I have been guilty of that, ill be more careful. Its just that I see something that has been repeated and circulated a bunch of times. I think everyone has already saw it and is trying to distract from new information.
COINTELPRO was a long time a go. This is fresh evidence of the same kind of thing happening now and it should absolutely be shown and discussed. Your attempting to undermine the content by insinuating it's being done for money. Every journalist gets paid for work unless you think getting paid for work is a bad thing.
Your attacking Greenwald for releasing new evidence showing something that we've long suspected. Why is that?
Dribs and drabs of stuff we already know. Here is proof that COINTELPRO still goes on, that's true. Did anyone really think it ever stopped? Well, here is a nice reminder for you, I guess, if you have.
But we didn't know about this without proof until it was released. We've had stuff in the past after COINTELPRO but just thinking we know isn't enough to really know is it now? We need evidence so we adjust our position from 'knowing' as you put it to really knowing.
I suppose you are right in a way. Apparently, people need to be spoonfed tiny little portions of strained peas, with Daddy Snowden and Mommy Greenwald pretending it's an aeroplane flying into their mouths.
What people need is evidence. We don't need to be spoon fed information, we need evidence from the source that it's happening so it puts an end to speculation. It's no good saying "shills exist guys" without offering evidence. People have seen stuff from the past and even recently and it's a long (and strongly) help position in the conspiracy community that it existed and that conspiracy theories were and are a target. I fully agreed with that and this new information does no harm at all by it being revealed. We need this information which fills in this gaps between past operations and now.
You seem to be dismissive again. Your statements about paying attention does not include evidence like what has been revealed. And yes, I've been paying plenty of attention but no matter how much attention I paid, the same kind of evidence has not been presented by a single person on this matter since The Church Committee.
I don't take the view that this is being done for money which is what your implying. By posting this information, they're putting themselves, their friends and family in the crosshairs for anything including disappearing into a shallow grave.
You keep pushing the idea that it's 'nothing new' and it's all for money.
Edit: I have slightly altered my post because I made a small mistake that looked like threatening behavior.
I changed...
"By posting this information, you're putting yourself, your friends and family in the crosshairs for anything including disappearing into a shallow grave."
To...
"By posting this information, they're putting themselves, their friends and family in the crosshairs for anything including disappearing into a shallow grave."
I'm talking about Snowden and Greenwald posting the leaks. They are putting themselves in the crosshairs by leaking the information and they've already been intimidated and threatened.
Wow, I am sorry if you thought it was directed at you but it most definitely was not.
I realise putting 'your' instead of 'they're' looks wrong but I meant the people that are leaking the NSA files.
I just find it odd that someone like Greenwald wouldn't investigate the man offering the money and his economic investing ventures worldwide. Scahill as well.
As a countermeasure (which I encourage everyone to do), I searched on "infiltrate" and every post that came up that was of the Greenwald article I upvoted.
It drives me crazy that mods were deleting posts, votes, or comments... ironically, and in a recursive sort of way, these deletions reaffirm the proof of this whole "conspiracy".
I just noticed that Greenwald posted a link to the presentation in the article on his Twitter page.. I was unaware that he uploaded the complete document to The Intercept page along with his own article.
Did anyone catch the last page with the full size pic of Teller (of Penn and Teller) giving the last word? I wonder if they hired him to give a lesson or two or if they just randomly used his photo. Brings to mind their debunking of 9/11 in their series "Bullshit". Also the 3 pics of other magicians naming them as agents. It's been long known that Houdini (houdin?) was an agent but does anyone know anything about the others?
This type of stuff is all too common in government organizations (and contractors). If you don't toe the line you become a target for political assassination using all of the methods used in the article. I love it how these people act like they've "arrived" and have the right (and the duty) to harass people for no reason. I feel sorry for them.
I posted this on another thread in response to a post addressing Zionism but it is related to anything.
Zionism is just an ideological poster to assist the destructive assertions of wealthy corporate entities ultimately serving the economic (power) interests of the Rothschilds and their associates. Christian Evangelicalism and Radical Islam are used in the same fashion, especially in resource rich regions such as africa, middle east etc. 'Zionists', are really just another branch in the Rchild's money hoarding network, they are discreet and downgrade there existence as a driving political force, unlike the Vatican, one of their compliant rivals (money hoarding network). Most of the world's economies are dominated by the Rchilds and countries that aren't, tend to have violent replacement of government until they do; Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, incoming Venezuela.
North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Russia are independent, China, India, Brazil and their allies have significant independence but are still influenced. A global economic unification is imminent, though no king rules forever and the Rchilds will lose power as new industries (New forms of energy, advanced internet and space technology) and a new corporate elite will emerge to overthrow them.
It will gradually occur but it will happen, the institute that is the Vatican has been operating since Augustus, though they may have changed their face and creed, thrived for thousands of years due to the delay of civil progression, but because our society has rapidly accelerating civil progression, they won't be able to last too long. This is why conservatives and fascists exist to purposely degenerate the progress of civilisation so the feudalistic oligarchies and monarchies can maximise the time of rule.
Essentially, the group of Money hoarding networks such as the Rchilds (and banker/corporate associates, Rockerfellers, Morgans etc.), Vatican, House of Saxe-Coburg/European Monarchies, Saudi/Islamic Monarchies etc. are currently in a loose alliance (not exactly loyal to each other) to dominate the world and snuff out other Money hoarding networks such as the Russian Oligarchy, Iranian Shia Islam, Chinese Oligarchy etc.
Money hoarding networks = Nobility, Nobility = Top of the Food chain
Part of the basic principles of Feudalism. We are not a democracy, we just democratically elect representatives who all serve the same feudal nobility, which barely changes.
Edit: We cannot break this system, we have been living in it since the dawn of civilization, it is how society functions and will remain like this until trans-humanism, we need a dominant minority to command the masses.
If you've ever played WoW, this is the basic concept of the Lich King, and when Arthas died this is why Bolvar Fordragon had to replace him, because the mindless scourge (zombie army) will be too destructive and rampant without a selfish ruler to manipulate and direct them in order to achieve a purpose. The only thing we can do is try to maintain a Lich King that is less evil malevolent and psychopathic, replacing Lich Kings that refuse to accept their time is over and retain power for an extended period.
This is why we are experiencing censorship and such, it is the circle of life, kings don't want to allow their children to replace them, thus seeking the fountain of youth.
I would like to point out something that may not be obvious. This sub is highly managed using sophisticated software which notifies agents when certain topics arise. If you wish to get your topic past the 'new' queue, avoid using keywords and instead find creative ways to spell out the word/topic.
This post has highly valuable information but it is easily targeted and supressed since it includes 'chemtrails' in the topic. We may nee to start getting creative with titles. Just a suggestion.
/r/bestof has been posting successful articles attacking the denizens of this sub with impunity, however we are banned from being featured there to possibly present the other side of the picture no matter what the merits of our contribution might be.
Seems fair right?
do not participate at these links. It makes you subject to an immediate ban.
I just put them up under fair use for discussion here in the persecuted, manipulated, backwoods.
Meh, I'll trust Greenwald and Poitras over these guys. NSFWCorp are pretty much just contrarian trolls. Mark Ames personally dislikes Glenn Greenwald for some reason and goes fishing for any excuse to write an article criticizing him. His other pasttime is bashing libertarianism and claiming it's a made up ideology invented by the Koch brothers.
is it time to leave reddit? I really love this site, I get my news from reddit, but I don'y want want it, if it's constantly censored or maniupliated, or buried
I went looking for an alternative yesterday. Not much luck finding a place with both a large compilation of articles and further submitted links in the threads.
leave? come one it's half the fun, we can't call people the "s" word, but there's nothing in the rules about suggesting that what someone is saying sounds like something a compensated freedom hating scumbag might say.
Ok, we know it is happening. Let's talk about how we can fight back. There is no possible way systematically defaming political dissidents threw libel, fraud, and "false flag" attacks can be legally justified. Somehow this should end up in the Supreme Court. Of course we shouldn't rely on that corrupt bunch to stop this, but a legal fight would certainly bring it to the public's attention. Right now they are just doing this in the shadows. We need to force them to defend what they are doing so it can be met with the scrutiny it deserves.
This is just one idea. Let's hear some strategies for subverting the subversion of free discourse on the internet!
let me give you an example of how in the corral we are....I could pay for a website , set the entire thing up to mimick reddit....I could post the site and say "hey. come on over to my place, no paid shills here"....this of course would be shadowbanned, removed, whatnot...and if you were to see something like that, you could be guaranteed it was "them" just trying to steer you into another "open cage"
There is only one solution and it would send most of this sub into a paranoia fuelled uproar. Some would claim it as boat and switch but there's only one way that it would work:
1) issue every ISP with the credentials to create 'internet passports' for every user. This would be the end of anonymity on the internet but it would mean no more sock puppets. It would also be the end of trolls, criminals, shills and sock puppets.
2) all content submitted by an individual would be traced to their internet passport. If someone is spreading disinfo, misinfo, criminal activity etc then they could effectively be traced and blocked from internet communication.
I bet there's a whole heap of those covert agents he's talking about here on this subreddit reading this shitz. How about becoming whistleblowers like snowden, perhaps you have sexy girlfiends and live in a nice Hawaii house too.
You seriously think that government cares about /r/conspiracy? I can guarantee it loves this sub because this sub spreads so much b.s. and false info. It actually damages the cause it was meant to serve. It makes us look crazy, and we are doing it to ourselves. The government doesn't need to damage /r/conspiracy's reputation because it has done it itself.
Jesus did you actually read the article?
I have seen with my own two eyes shills submit antisemitic material to discredit the sub. Do you not think that they do this shit in other way's and means?
It's weird too how the admins get involved when criticisms are leveled at moderators and Reddit itself. But yet they do nothing when particular users are destabilizing different subreddits.
What is your question? Greenwald has not released any facts that were not manipulated and or exaggerated to make him the most money possible. He doesn't give a fuck about people other than himself. They "info" was "released" as slow as possible so he could make maximum profit from each "release".
I'm wondering how Glenn Greenwald is in on it, or whats the point of releasing this information.
I'm a fan of James Corbett, i've heard his take on Greenwald in that round table discussion with Sibel and there take is he's getting lots of money but still leaking this information I wonder what the benefit of doing that is.
Hell...it's not just the government that does this, Anonymous attempt this as well...me thinks of the "Justice for Jenny" campaign against UnderTakerFreak1127 by 4chan...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQSAzaXIb8Q
What we are quickly learning is that when people don't have to work all day to produce the means of their continued existence they turn to absolutely immoral activities. Therefore, all population in excess of those needed to continue the existence of the species ought to be purged.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. When people fill their time with activities other than simple recreation or labor in the production of real commodities of intrinsic value, they turn to evil schemes such as the ones Greenwald exposes. Pay people to play games, to write books, to give speeches, fine. But when you pay people to do this, it is time to close shop on whatever society in which it occurs. I mean, if this is the pinnacle of secular culture, then please please please give me theocracy!
Well then it seems like stuff like this is just something we will have to come to accept. Under theocracy we may not have 'freedom' to do and say what we want, to have sex with who we want, and to abort when we want, but at least we have concepts. Under secularism, these concepts are toast:
Under the title “Online Covert Action”, the document details a variety of means to engage in “influence and info ops” as well as “disruption and computer net attack”, while dissecting how human beings can be manipulated using “leaders”, “trust, “obedience” and “compliance”.
How can I trust you or anyone knowing that there is the distinct possibility that you are a lie?
Wow. I had assumed that since Jews and Blacks could be seen as needed to continue the existence of the species, as they could reproduce, you wouldn't need to "purge" them.
There are a lot of loving people here, but I've run into some that really get me down. I don't know what kind of religion would coincide with your vision, but it has nothing to do with God.
Therefore, all population in excess of those needed to continue the existence of the species ought to be purged.
I personally think you're reading too far into it. Had they wanted to hide all this, both threads would have been deleted. As would this one. As would the countless other threads floating around Reddit about this same issue.
there's the argument that the old creeps who control the policies will die off and we can move on to something better...if they keep on living longer, recycle em in and out and some plastic surgery lol
History is cyclical. Great empires rise and fall in the ashes of those before them, forgotten by men but remembered chemically. Maybe one day we'll get it right, but we're snowballing now. No sense in getting illusions of grandeur on a subforum.
302 comments
188 Dodgerillo 2014-02-25
This must be the hardest hitting story to break in a long time, especially in regards to a website like Reddit. I'm very interested in seeing Reddits response to this and if this will result in any changes to the status quo. Glenn Greenwald needs to keep this up.
80 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Where is /r/conspiratard to point and laugh at Glenn Greenwald for believing in this "conspiracy bullshit."
38 [deleted] 2014-02-25
They got the rest of the night off.
14 pjvex 2014-02-25
Those guys at /r/conspiratard really are an irritable group of malcontents.
20 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Indeed, they are. Fortunately, thanks to these revelations, nobody takes them seriously anymore.
-6 brodievonorchard 2014-02-25
My first thought upon reading the Intercept article was to post this on their sub with a headline like: "I mean Glenn Greenwald, what a tard amirite?" Then I thought about the effect that would have on my inbox and pussed out.
55 ZapPowerz 2014-02-25
and its no where on the front page of Reddit. How weird is that?!
30 Haxford 2014-02-25
I can't find it on the front page of any of the default subs. I've tried submitting a similar article to /r/news (everything else was already submitted and couldn't be submitted again) but shortly after i submitted it went into a black hole.
54 ZapPowerz 2014-02-25
Doesn't this pretty much 100% validate the article in question? I think it does.
38 holocauster-ride 2014-02-25
Also this doesn't appear on Rueters, CNN, CBC, BBC, Al Jazeera, The Guardian, The Associated Press, UPI, or Fox News.
16 atomheartother 2014-02-25
Not only are posts on the subject being deleted but user accounts who try to talk about it too much are being deleted.
See http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1yycxf/reddit_censors_big_story_about_government/cfpbask
15 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
It only made it to like number five in worldnews last night. That was the one sub I was sure it would take off in.
28 in_the_airoplane 2014-02-25
It started to, until it got removed and then reposted. Mods took the wind out of the sails in every way they knew: deleting for no reason, removing others on account of it being a "repost," then allowing some to surface and then tagging it with "opinion/analysis," and then finally letting one surface during the off hours knowing that it would get buried once people started posting new stuff in the morning. Oh, and I think the article that finally made it didn't even contain all of the PPT slides.
Being in a different time zone, I watched that shit show happen and it wasn't pretty.
12 0fubeca 2014-02-25
I keep submitting these stories to r news and others so I can have evidence shall we ever need it. I document when I submit where else on reddit has that link been submitted to and how long it last before its removed. The stories I have done so far have all been consistently removed after and elapsed time after posting. 10 minute for EXAMPLE. Also all the post have had similar amounts of downvotes at time of removal. Unless there are people who sit in new and downvote these one after the other it can't be a coincidence that these all get a downvote less than a second after each other. I hope to reverse engineer or at least get some hints on what they are doing and specifically how so we can point and pick out marketers in comments and submissions from real accounts. Once I get a lot more data il post
7 babblelol 2014-02-25
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ywspe/new_snowden_doc_reveals_how_gchqnsa_use_the/
Heres a link, but yeah I don't think it's on the front page.
3 ferriolom 2014-02-25
http://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ywspe/new_snowden_doc_reveals_how_gchqnsa_use_the
1 cavalierau 2014-02-25
Reddit can be manipulated easily too. If a suspicious world news story breaks, governments can distract reddit with planned posts to AdviceAnimals, aww, pics, etc. Surely they would have upvote/downvote bots at their disposal.
They could also distract or try to manipulate us with scheduled IAMAs. That dodgy Morgan Freeman one comes to mind.
34 mangage 2014-02-25
The shills in the comment threads for these stories are gonna go so meta they may explode.
12 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
14 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
It's bigger than the spying leaks. We know GCHQ and the NSA are best buds too of course. It really is telling that this didn't make it to the front page.
0 I_dont_upvote_myself 2014-02-25
Don't doubt that it will, you're only feeding the fire then.
3 Wild2098 2014-02-25
It's run through the front pages of numerous "popular" subs. Might be relevant for a day or two, but you gotta remember reddit's attention span.
1 Bilgus 2014-02-25
http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm This is a pretty in-depth article on their tactics. I think everyone should read this to spot when you are potentially being manipulated.
1 Black_Metal 2014-02-25
:)
83 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
I recommend you all keep an eye out across reddit to see which subs censor this story and which allow it.
76 wynstonsmythe 2014-02-25
It was removed once in /r/worldnews:
http://www.np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1yu8g8/how_covert_agents_infiltrate_the_internet_to/
There's another submission of the same article in /r/worldnews that hasn't yet been taken down. Interestingly, that one actually has an editorialized title while the one that was taken down does not.
Edit: it's been put back up.
Edit 2: now the other submission, which was posted later but had more upvotes, has been removed. This is blatant content manipulation on the part of /r/worldnews mods.
64 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
Worldnews mods are masters of manipulating the organic curation of content. Watch them closely.
28 computer_d 2014-02-25
I was the person who golded that post. Fucking pissed off that it was removed
7 InkMercenary 2014-02-25
Denied gold, that's rough.
7 computer_d 2014-02-25
First and last time!
2 0fubeca 2014-02-25
Goto his user and give gold
3 Wild2098 2014-02-25
Why would you contribute to a website that is so controlled?
2 computer_d 2014-02-25
I thought I may as well do it for the NSA-related posts. Nope, never again
-4 Cainedbutable 2014-02-25
Looks to me like the one they kept was posted before the one that was deleted? I guess that's kinda fair on whoever was the first to post the link in /r/worldnews.
5 Zipo29 2014-02-25
Why so that the person that posted it first can get their imaginary points?
Who cares who posted the article first, the important thing is that the information is seen by the people. If the second one has blown up then let it run and don't manipulate it. Seems counter intuitive to delete or mess with the position unless you are trying to hide or bury something.
-3 Cainedbutable 2014-02-25
I personally think you're reading too far into it. Had they wanted to hide all this, both threads would have been deleted. As would this one. As would the countless other threads floating around Reddit about this same issue.
3 Dewaska 2014-02-25
Could it not be an instance of forum sliding?
10 amranu 2014-02-25
I attempted to post just the slides to r/news however my post was immediately filtered.
The original article was removed as 'opinion/analysis'. I am inquiring in what way it would be valid to submit this information to r/news now.
The post I made is located here
-15 SurfohNahmicks 2014-02-25
How exactly does the Greenwald article apply to world news?
23 spasticbadger 2014-02-25
Because the Internet is used by the world.
12 Zebraton 2014-02-25
Care to show any angle at all that it wouldn't be news that impacts the world?
8 dehehn 2014-02-25
Take a look in your url field, see that www up there? Know what that stands for?
2 serenity_suppository 2014-02-25
It's an intranational thing between five eyes
14 ZapPowerz 2014-02-25
Its up in /r/libertarian
14 GovEqualsAids 2014-02-25
They aren't going to censor it, that's for sure.
4 klmd 2014-02-25
How about putting the Greenwald link on the side bar, above the gentleperson's guide.
4 atomheartother 2014-02-25
Here's some possible evidence of user accounts being deleted, which would mean it's more than mods:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1yycxf/reddit_censors_big_story_about_government/cfpbask
Edit: Added "Possible" evidence. This does not rule out the very unlikely possibility that this guy spent his whole day trying to spread the word about /r/news and /r/worldnews and then SUDDENLY decided to delete his account.
6 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
It used to be possible to check if a user was shadowbanned or deleted by checking the json; wherein a shadowban would populate the json and a deleted account would render a 404 error.
However, I think reddit admins silently changed this behind the scenes. As this account of an older poster I know to be shadowbanned renders a 404.
In summation, absent the original poster of those comments coming back under an alt we won't be able to figure out if he was shadowbanned or deleted himself.
I will say that when you see the username of a comment deleted, but the comment stands, it is often the case that the user deleted his own account. Usually as a result of constant PM abuse which goes ignored by the admins.
3 atomheartother 2014-02-25
:/
2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Holy shit. The Metal gear solid series was more accurate than I thought possible.
1 adrixshadow 2014-02-25
Can we make this sticky and put into sidebar permanently?
61 ZapPowerz 2014-02-25
Another conspiracy PROVEN. But we are still crazy nut jobs right?
5 genesissequence 2014-02-25
"If most of your ideas aren't stupid, you're probably being too conservative." - Paul Graham
The Power of the Marginal
5 DeltaForcePanda 2014-02-25
I mean this in all seriousness and without malice....What did you know before this broke? What conspiracy theory about this was posted here before? What information did you guys know that the average redditor didn't? Like, where are the posts about this on /r/conspiracy before this story broke?
4 goodluck_7proxies 2014-02-25
Before JTRIG there was COINTELPRO.
2 shockaDee 2014-02-25
Look for whistleblower William Binney
2 SofaKingGazelle 2014-02-25
Honestly is it a huge surprise. We all know companies have been for ages paying people to promote things online or blogs to have good reviews. It's no surprise a government is doing it too.
0 ZapPowerz 2014-02-25
Are you asking me to do research for you that you could easily do on your own using the same system (computers and internet) that I would use? Do I understand you correctly? Do your own damn work.
2 cavalierau 2014-02-25
Sadly for a lot of people they only recognise 'proof' if it comes from a reputable TV network or newspaper.
0 LennyFackler 2014-02-25
I have no doubt these methods are being used at some level but it would be nice to see a real example with evidence. There must be documentation of specific operations with names and details.
7 serenity_suppository 2014-02-25
Reddit is anonymous.
Proof impossible unless someone comes forward from within agency.
Imagined grievous contractual penalties for disseminating evidence of program as it is with other whistleblowers
7 serenity_suppository 2014-02-25
Reddit is anonymous. No proof til another whistleblower steps forward
5 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
I'm really hoping that there's a list of disinfo agents somewhere, I bet it would be even crazier than we think.
-8 LennyFackler 2014-02-25
Glenn Greenwald. Lol. Minds blown.
4 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
That theory doesn't really hold much water after this story.
It's a big stretch to imagine this leak as part of a "limited hangout."
it's bigger than the NSA leaks. It shows what the spy network is being used for. The manipulation only works if people aren't aware of it.
0 LennyFackler 2014-02-25
It was a joke which I see isn't really allowed. But the original topic is interesting. I'll try to find a less hostile place to have a discussion.
7 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
It didn't come off as a joke. It's a very common theory here that Greenwald and Snowden are shills themselves, agents of a "limited hangout" operation.
A theory I consider likely to be bullshit disinformation, the sort of thing that is right up JTRIG's alley
2 shockaDee 2014-02-25
There may be a nuance to this arguement:
Greenwald is not a shill, he is legit, Snowden is not a shill, he is legit, however someone inside wanted this information out, so put Snowden in a position to be able to do exactly what he did.
You better believe that Snowden was profiled to hell before he was employed by someone like Booz. So he was essentially allowed to get out, and the information was allowed into the public domain, they are trying to suppress the stuff that's a little more on the damaging side, but really, they want everyone to know they are watching, because a lot of people already knew anyways, anyone that mattered that is...
Now they can make people self-censor online for fear of the thought police.
52 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Nice. This is of the upmost importance and has only 15 up votes on /r/politics and it's been up for an hour.
38 fapsternot 2014-02-25
r/politics is a shining example of the tactics used in this document.
15 Zipo29 2014-02-25
Similiar to /r/worldnews
8 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
I thought worldnews was better. I still think it is a little bit. At least I'm not shadow-banned there.
3 atomheartother 2014-02-25
/r/worldnews is a bit better than /r/news, but it's still absolute shit.
24 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
/r/politics is gone. It's worse than MSNBC now.
edit: well fuck, this story is climbing its way up there. If it makes it to number one in /r/politics i'll eat my hat.
edit2: I don't think I'm going to need to start marinating the hat just yet.
4 atm0sphere 2014-02-25
I don't see it there at all. Amazing.
22 gizadog 2014-02-25
The people in /r/politics are not human but government zombies.
-5 redandterrible 2014-02-25
Dehumanising opponents is a good strategy for disregarding them. Or justifying any number of other activities.
Congratulations on using such an effective technique.
8 Zebraton 2014-02-25
Did you read the damn article?
9 TheUltimateSalesman 2014-02-25
It's not just /r/politics, it's reddit. And reddit capitulates.
1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
I just created a subreddit where we can discuss just how compromised this website is.
0 conspiracynut29482 2014-02-25
You'd realise if the government actually did make a habit of destroying reputations of people on the internet most of the /r/conspiracy mods would be crazy nazis who rape babies by now.
3 SovereignMan 2014-02-25
That's not far from the truth. Not to that extent but it still happens. Some of us mods regularly come under attack and defamation is one of the tools used.
48 GovEqualsAids 2014-02-25
Good job mods.
32 TheAxi0m 2014-02-25
Those who can not accept criticism reveal a lack of integrity.
Rule 10.
5 virgule 2014-02-25
Let's not confuse attacking and accusing with criticism. That's just plain daft.
4 facereplacer2 2014-02-25
Great way to put it.
-1 Jjny88 2014-02-25
Facebook
11 needshumor 2014-02-25
The mods should explain themselves here. Why in the hell has it been moved?
2 Flytape 2014-02-25
What?
Why has what been moved?
What do you want me to explain?
2 needshumor 2014-02-25
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ywspe/new_snowden_doc_reveals_how_gchqnsa_use_the/cfohbrc
1 Flytape 2014-02-25
So mods of a different sub. Gotcha. I was much confused.
1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
-4 Flytape 2014-02-25
No you were banned for calling people cunts and children.
1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
-2 Flytape 2014-02-25
No, these rules aren't even the issue.
Rule 10 only changed in the sense that we clarified that calling someone a shill or a troll is also considered a person attack.
It has always prohibited against attacking the users, the community as a whole and the mods. The only reason that anyone is making a big deal about is because there was a change and the opportunity is ripe to try and stage a rebellion and continue to disrupt the community.
Let's "face it" every time we adjust to rules, the trolls adjust their tactics to continue to disrupt. And every time we adjust the rules we get a little bit closer to the best recipe of success. I can't help bit notice that this latest adjustment has really panicked the horde of trolls.
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1yu84v/greenwalds_latest_the_shills_are_real/cfobgfw
Here is the actual link to the warning you got, where you implied twice that I am a cunt. Your whole objective here is to disrupt this greenwald conversation. These rule changes were discussed to death in a sticky post a few days ago and now something as huge as this greenwald post is here and suddenly its a good time for you to start kicking a dead horse.
Its painfully obvious that you want to be able to scream SHILL! TROLL! RETARD! From your various accounts because it is a low effort way to disrupt.
Those days are over. Adjust your tactics or give up. Personal attacks will not be tolerated here.
6 Pueblito 2014-02-25
The problem is your selective enforcement, the fact you are constantly snarky and then ban people for doing the same, and how you've managed to, over time, ban long time regulars. You can't be trusted.
3 trinsic-paridiom 2014-02-25
The rules are intent on stopping dialog that is clearly designed disrupt the conversation. I dont care how long that person has been a member of reddit. This isn't a blue collar seniority rules kind of thing. Its about having tact, respect and application for peoples opinions and views.
-1 Flytape 2014-02-25
Which long time regulars?
8 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
7 TheAxi0m 2014-02-25
Someone said they were being cowardly and then they banned them.
5 brofidential 2014-02-25
When the mods fail us and we sense bots, we should just post JTRIG all over that mutherpludgepucker.
1 fuckyoua 2014-02-25
I say we post about it everyday. It's the proof they said we didn't have about shills. They are left with their dicks in their mouths.
3 YourWorkingBoy 2014-02-25
Or cunts. Don't forget, women can be dirtbag shills too. May I please have a what what for equality.
2 fuckyoua 2014-02-25
what what
-26 timbertodd 2014-02-25
Hey guys I don't believe in any conspiracies and I will gladly disprove anything you try and put forth.
I bet I work for the government!
7 [deleted] 2014-02-25
yawn...
-2 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
I bet you live on your mothers couch.
39 Orangutan 2014-02-25
COINTELPRO Techniques for Dilution, Misdirection and Control of an Internet Forum
16 ronintetsuro 2014-02-25
25 Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules Of Disinformation
10 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Some people think COINTELPRO and MKULTRA stopped. lol.
38 brofidential 2014-02-25
Every program that I ever thought was used against US adversaries can now be understood/assumed to be used against all on the fucking planet. I was such a brainwashed zombie and trusted it would all only ever be used for good. America needs to wake up. UK and other citizens of all the 5 Eyes need to wake the fuck up.
20 sushisection 2014-02-25
I have a feeling this rabbithole is much deeper than i want to believe.
8 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
It is, the faster you dig to the bottom the faster you can make sense of it all.
0 jshanthonymayne 2014-02-25
You would just be putting yourself in a bigger hole...why not climb out while you still can?
11 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
Because a person needs to know their place in the world, burying your head in the sand wont make reality go away.
0 buildabeast 2014-02-25
Yes because only dubdubdubbot can shine light on the governments darkest secrets. He is the hero /r/conspiracy deserves!
1 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
mehhh
4 brofidential 2014-02-25
It is. I think back to programs I supported and how i thought they were for the war fighter and to save lives. Bullshit! I see now it's all for economic gain, power and control. The US just needed the public to buy off on all the costs. Sure, develop technology to "protect" the homeland. Now that it's produced and in the black world, so they can do what they please.
2 trinsic-paridiom 2014-02-25
Good for you, im glad more people are waking up. Lets keep the ball rolling :D
34 curiosity36 2014-02-25
Interesting. I'm sure the contrarians encountered here are, all, 100%, just voicing their own views and not operating under any other agenda.
35 [deleted] 2014-02-25
"I've written hundreds of articles.. I remember some and not others.. that one I don't remember very well.. I.. I.. I.. hope I didn't say that".
12 moonpurr 2014-02-25
Fantastic find and post. Thanks for this. It kind of explains it all in a nutshell.
3 facereplacer2 2014-02-25
I forgot about that one. So good and relevant.
2 IhateourLives 2014-02-25
Well Stephen King doesnt remember entire books he has written, but he was also doing incredible amounts of cocaine and booze while writing those books.
1 fractalfrenzy 2014-02-25
It's not just that he claims to not remember writing the article, he also won't answer the question of whether or not he still believes what he wrote.
1 IhateourLives 2014-02-25
Yea I know I was just kidding around.
-1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
great point!
15 [deleted] 2014-02-25
You think that's bad? Another of Obamas White House advisors (the Science advisor), John P Holdren made recommendations in his book called Ecoscience that make this look like child's play.
This is completely real.
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/
5 Zebraton 2014-02-25
It's confirmation of what we knew as their attitude basically, but awesome link, thanks.
34 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
26 moonpurr 2014-02-25
Start becoming more self sufficient. The less you need the system the less that paradigm exists.
15 IhateourLives 2014-02-25
I got a lifestraw and always keep a good supply of peanut butter,weed, and vodka (I dont drink, just for trade). That should do it right? :)
8 moonpurr 2014-02-25
Lol. You will learn to love vodka if the SHTF.
4 dehehn 2014-02-25
Also useful when combined with rags and fire.
2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
It is surprisingly versatile.
5 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
8 moonpurr 2014-02-25
A little of both is wise. Edit- alcohol is one of the most prized items to barter when the SHTF.
30 an0n4btc 2014-02-25
https://prod01-cdn02.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/2014/02/deception_p48.png
In a nutshell is what happened to the Occupy Movement.
Image linked from laziness of counting down images on this informative article.
28 fakeaccount164413213 2014-02-25
Most reddit-addicted city: Eglin Air Force Base, FL
19 dhs2020 2014-02-25
From February 2011: Revealed: Air Force ordered software to manage army of fake virtual people http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/18/revealed-air-force-ordered-software-to-manage-army-of-fake-virtual-people
1 materhern 2014-02-25
Thats disturbing.
3 7i77y 2014-02-25
Heard that's where they make astroturf for the collosseums, 'strue?
2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
wow. That's not good
0 ventian 2014-02-25
It may not be as bad as you think. You have to imagine that more than a few of those guys are on our side. Most people that I know with military backgrounds aren't considered pro government.
5 Jack___Torrance 2014-02-25
or it's home to The Federal Department of Astroturfing
0 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
Lol I doubt astroturfing is done in house, it is likely outsourced to countries like Israel.
3 Yearoftheboomerang 2014-02-25
Why would you outsource something like that to a country with equally high labor costs?
1 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
And since when would costs matter to the government?
4 Yearoftheboomerang 2014-02-25
They're suggesting that these puppet accounts are created for the express purpose of shaping public opinion; not that there are just a lot of guys on an Air Force Base reading reddit during free time.
1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7uNH2rskWE
23 Fhwqhgads 2014-02-25
This explains a lot of the people on reddit who make excuses for greed and corruption.
21 blankonese 2014-02-25
The fact that this is not on the front page speaks volumes. This might be it. The point of no return. If this story does not go viral on the internet then we know that they are in control.
6 Zebraton 2014-02-25
They are in control and have always been. The Internet came from DARPA and they didn't release it to diminish their own power. Granted they were pushed by Fido and other grass roots efforts, but the idea from the get go was easy monitoring of all communications and the ability to propagandize with practically no overhead compared to analog methods.
1 trinsic-paridiom 2014-02-25
shoot how far you going back?
16 KeavesSharpi 2014-02-25
Shills are real? NO WAY!
-7 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Next in the news, humans are capable of lying!
16 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Just finished reading propaganda by Edward Bernays and even back then in, what, 1919?, he talks about the exact same thing in how to sway public opinion. Nice to see nothing changes with time except the platform.
9 Zebraton 2014-02-25
People have not changed, so the methods stay the same.
4 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Century of the Self is a good doc on the subject.
1 PeaceOneday 2014-02-25
I second this
2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
learning about Edward Bernays is what really tipped me off to conspiracy theories being true. crazy stuff.
1 trinsic-paridiom 2014-02-25
The Crowd, A study of the Popular Mind by Gustave Le Bon. It was first published in 1895 so it has some serious biases. But if you can over look that there is some good information in it about how people become manipulated in large groups and how it plays out in social environments.
And
From Dictatorship to Democracy by Gene Sharp are also good ones that are relevant to the books already suggested.
15 doubleherpes 2014-02-25
/r/anarchism and /r/socialism have both been fractured by ban-happy parties seeking to divide dissident groups based on identity politics.
2 kunteater 2014-02-25
Identity politics: the worst kind of politics next to religious politics
4 doubleherpes 2014-02-25
the above subs haven't organized a single effective action. all they do is argue about who to ban next for mean comments.
so even if the mods are acting in good faith (which i question), all the CIA needs to do is send a regular supply of trolls and they'll drop everything to deal with them. they leave themselves completely open to disruption by COINTELPRO.
i'm sympathetic to the idea of eliminating all intersecting oppression, but we gotta fry the biggest fish first. we're not effective when we're arguing amongst ourselves. we argue about cismen while the bankers leave us all destitute. is that how we win? i don't think so.
it's not fishy to anyone that the above subs haven't organized ANY acts of real life resistance?
15 Patrik333 2014-02-25
Subscribed to /r/conspiracy after seeing the shitstorm on /r/worldnews earlier last night. I've always thought there was a lot of truth in conspiracy theories, and that the 'crackpot' theorists that came along with the rest were a worthwhile price to pay for the intelligent, if slightly paranoid scrutiny of the majority of conspiracy theorists. Like, keeping a check on things.
Also, I've never really committed to believing in theories myself - I've seen lots of very convenient concurrences but I would never say I had anything more than a vague hypothesis, and not much solid evidence...
But now in the wake of all this, I'm starting to realize that a lot of conspiracy theories are not only more real than I'd ever imagined, but could personally affect me instead of being some distant thing that might have slight consequences on my life through the economy, etc. but never really interact with anything I experience in a big way.
So yeah, new subscriber checking in. I'd really like it now if someone could tell me how I can best help protest these outrages. I feel like most of the time I see some big issue that should make me ultra-paranoid but instead I just grumble and feel passionate about it for the few minutes I'm reading the thread, but then promptly distract myself with everything else on Reddit and go back to being oblivious. (And that in itself seems like an unhealthy habit because I'm effectively training my own mind to be begrudgingly accepting of unacceptable news. Sort of like how every time YouTube updates, everyone says they'll take action, but no one ever does, so now YouTube basically knows that they can do whatever the fuck they like, and as long as they change things slowly enough, people will stick around because they're too lazy to feel strongly about changing anything...)
Anyway sorry, I get longwinded sometimes. I dunno if anyone will read this. Hope someone does I guess, but if not TLDR Hi! I'm new and subscribed!
6 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
Talk. Speech is a powerful weapon.
When the people in charge have to resort to censorship they've already accepted and admitted that their argument, their philosophy, doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
The free flow of information will bring them down, that's why they're always trying so hard to limit and interfere with the information.
6 mjh808 2014-02-25
The term conspiracy 'theory' is designed to make people think nutters are just pulling stuff out of the air as some kind of weird hobby whereas the vast majority are regular people, some even academics doing real research and uncovering evidence (not theorising!) but don't expect anything to see the light in mainstream media no matter how clear cut, it's controlled and has been for decades if not longer.. see operation mockingbird on that.
So I don't know, that Wolfgang Halbig guy talking about Sandy Hook makes me think those in the right line of work may be able to get stuff done through legal means (if a judge can be found who is not corrupt). I've also heard talk of a possible coup in the US relating to the 260+ military commanders that were fired.
The rest of us, well I guess we have to be creative if we want to make a difference.
What was the shitstorm on worldnews? was it about Ukraine?
3 Patrik333 2014-02-25
No, it was about this same topic of this recent Snowden leak, but apparently a lot of the stories covering NSA topics had been systematically deleted by /r/worldnews mods...
1 trinsic-paridiom 2014-02-25
Yeah Im working on presentations that I hand out in my area in populated areas. I was also thinking about hosting some events as well. I think the best way to handle this is to think about your area of expertise and work from that angle in small ways little by little to bring about change. Trying to do big projects outright that have a huge time investment have a way of discouraging. I have a hunch that sometime soon a lot of us are going to have plenty of time on our hands to do real activist work.
1 Patrik333 2014-02-25
That's a reat idea, thanks!
1 PeaceOneday 2014-02-25
Be the change you want to be in the world. Realize your personal and universal responsibilities. Be kind and emernate love. :)
13 hamsterfist 2014-02-25
Fact: NO AMOUNT OF PROOF WILL BE ENOUGH FOR JOE SIX PACK TO CARE.
If anyone is to do anything, it will be the likes of those that believe the proof, until we are finally locked up with the other undesirables. By then it will be too late. Why even bother worrying about this anymore if not one person is going to do anything, let alone the millions that see the meteorite heading for us. It will hit. No one has the will to stop it.
13 sushisection 2014-02-25
Excuse me but you have it all wrong.
Joe six pack doesn't care because he doesn't know. See, our neighbor Joe here goes to work everyday, and when he comes back home he is exhausted. Joe though wants to know whats going on with the world while he was at work. He sinks into his couch and flicks on CNN. Joe has been watching televised news for a while, he trusts this source. Or for his news, Joe opens up Internet Explorer 9 to his yahoo homepage and checks out the front page. "Oh Kate Middleton dressed her son up as a punk kid! How cute." Then Joe jerks off and goes to bed, only to start the cycle again in the morning.
Sadly, this is most of America. They receive their news from the propaganda machine we call corporate media. Think about this for a second, our government fucking pressured tech companies to install backdoors into their products... our government must also have the power to pressure news outlets into reporting what they want.
3 hamsterfist 2014-02-25
I know. You know. Millions know. What are we doing about it? We ARE Joe Six Pack. We ARE doing nothing.
2 7i77y 2014-02-25
Laissez faire is a valid option. Let the rabbit hole get so deep in wide that nine tenths of mankind fall in, start it all over with a couple centuries of feudalism: we're bound to strike another golden age eventually.
1 sushisection 2014-02-25
winners in a rigged game tend to get lazy
4 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
Joe six pack will care when that next welfare check doesnt show up and he really cant find a job, the next big financial crisis is right around the corner that is when people will be ripe for revolution.
1 hamsterfist 2014-02-25
The only hope is true collapse. Sounds regretfully sad to me. The next collapse might be "it". The great die off. This all makes me extremely sad.
3 7i77y 2014-02-25
History is cyclical. Great empires rise and fall in the ashes of those before them, forgotten by men but remembered chemically. Maybe one day we'll get it right, but we're snowballing now. No sense in getting illusions of grandeur on a subforum.
2 adrixshadow 2014-02-25
Doesn't Fox News occupy the same niche conspiracy does?
Is there so much difference between Alex Jones(even if he is an agent or not) and Fox News?
Pretty sure if we could get them on the Internet they will naturally acclimatize.
Its the normal common sense, progressive democrats with an eduction that are more indoctrinated.
1 sun_raider 2014-02-25
nothing wrong with waiting for a decent plan to come up.
12 Bitty31985 2014-02-25
OK So our tax dollars have been used to generate lies, manipulate conversations, and ruin reputations of innocent people or in their words " These online covert actions follow the “4 D's:” deny, disrupt, degrade, deceive." IT'S TIME TO END THE DEPRAVITY WHICH MEANS THERE IS NO MORE TIME FOR APATHY
9 Fake_William_Shatner 2014-02-25
Greenwald and Snowden are fighting the ACTUAL war we all need to care about. This is for the future.
We will either live in a 'perfect intelligence' police state -- that only creates the inevitable situation where some group with enough power can perpetually abuse the public interest (captive profits / rigged system) and redirect any attempt to organize and change the system (discredit and destroy people's reputations and livelihood), or we will live in a equitable and transparent society -- likely socialist, because robotic automation is making it impossible for everyone to pick up a shovel and be useful (just a glaring fact of the future few are addressing in the "jobs" debate).
0 Fake_William_Shatner 2014-02-25
Getting down-voted because their a fans of a police state?
CONSPIRACY!
8 jolliples 2014-02-25
Figured this would be front page. Not shocked I had to search for it
8 [deleted] 2014-02-25
So how do shills sleep well at night?
Maybe if they get paid well, but not soul crushing at all? I guess they could say well I'm getting paid to feed my family....there's people who control Drones to kill people, i'm not killing anyone so they probably reason shilling on forums as everyone else is doing it now to. Iran and Russia are doing it so I'm a patriot for my country!....
Its same brainwashing as military use to get soldiers to do the dirty work of a few crusty old men who in the future will be young men who used technology to never age and keep controlling the world :(
2 cccpcharm 2014-02-25
dorritos and masturbation
1 Yearoftheboomerang 2014-02-25
And you sounded reasonable until you drifted off into X Files fountain of youth land.
1 cumtrails 2014-02-25
anti-aging in mice 2010 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans
there's the argument that the old creeps who control the policies will die off and we can move on to something better...if they keep on living longer, recycle em in and out and some plastic surgery lol
1 adrixshadow 2014-02-25
The greatest trick is to make them think they are the good guys.
So compartmentalization and sprinkling of blackmail
8 toxicw4ste 2014-02-25
Has anyone asked Alex Ohanin about antique jetpack in any of his AMA's?
7 Ambiguously_Ironic 2014-02-25
I can't wait to hear this get "debunked".
9 dehehn 2014-02-25
I'm surprised I haven't seen a single conspiritard on here yet.
6 SovereignMan 2014-02-25
I think they are here. Just look at those that have been disrupting the comment threads with complaints about the rules here instead of staying on topic.
1 shockaDee 2014-02-25
Speaking of which, I haven't seen that bot around lately that told us when we were linked to in another sub. I know it wasn't yours, but could we get that back if it's gone?
1 SovereignMan 2014-02-25
As far as I know it hasn't been disabled. Perhaps it's just been absent due to a lack of cross links to other subs.
1 shockaDee 2014-02-25
Ok, thanks!
6 moonpurr 2014-02-25
Why is billionaire co-founder of EBay Pierre Omidyar funding Glen Greenwald's NSA-Snowden leaks to the tune of $250 Million?
http://www.corbettreport.com/secrets-for-sale-the-greenwaldomidyarnsa-connection/
And another to think about-
http://pressthink.org/2013/10/why-pierre-omidyar-decided-to-join-forces-with-glenn-greenwald-for-a-new-venture-in-news/
13 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
Obvious insider information on the safe-bet: "The Intercept". Who the fuck would invest that astronomical sum otherwise on a reporter who has been "harassed" by TPTB? Especially after what happened to Hastings.
Thanks for the links.
15 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
10 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
The Hegalian Dialect is more like if I post an opinion that is polar opposite to yours in order to undermine your viewpoint. We had a guy here called "myconspiracyname" who did that very often. I'm sure he's still around somewhere.
What you're describing is what some people call "limited hangout operation". An old technique of exposing a minor misdeed to hide a larger one. Similar to how you describe it in your second paragraph.
9 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
A limited hangout is very close to a preemptive attempt at subverting the Hegelian dialectic which occurs in the hexis (on a cultural level).
Hegel has some notion of this society wide discursive process in the form of his history, but it's really not until Adorno and Horkheimer(and their descendants) that a fully fleshed out criticism of Bernaysian manipulation was really flushed out in proper historical context.
This makes sense, as Hegel was around before Le Bon started the discipline of PR.
7 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
That's some impressive knowledge on mainland philosophy that flies way over my head.
However, even though both phenomena fall under the same category of discourse, I still find them to be different enough to merit separate meanings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the HD uses a thesis and antithesis to reach a synthesis. Sounds different from waving a carrot as distraction from an underlying issue.
8 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
Well thanks.
The idea is that by positioning yourself in such a way wherein you entrench the thesis (as it emerge in history), you can subvert/obfuscate/weaken the emergence of the antithesis. Therein rendering an artificial synthesis which is nothing more than a control structure casting itself with a new face. In this way the form of the dialectic has been subverted and rendered useless.
6 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
In that case, shouldn't we then call it a "faux dialectic" or "ghost polarity"? I'm just making up terms for the fun of it, but you get the idea.
8 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
Yes, this phenomenon needs a name; it is, in essence, the complete and total control of human language.
5 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
I just tagged you as "philosophy guru". Hope you don't mind me turning to you if I have questions.
1 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
That is very kind of you and you are always welcome to ask questions; I'm useful for most post-Westphalian Peace stuff.
1 Rabbit_TAO 2014-02-25
Reminds me of Stormclouds.
5 moonpurr 2014-02-25
Be careful naming names. I think it's now against the rules here.
7 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
He has been banned for a while now anyway.
5 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
3 OrdoAlbiPhoenicis 2014-02-25
See also the Overton Window and Door in the face technique
8 moonpurr 2014-02-25
No problem. I just believe in looking at both sides of the coin my friend. This article posted by the mods is valid. But the rabbit hole goes deep.
15 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
Definitely. We have been screaming from the top of our lungs about shills for years. Yet again, we have something ancient confirmed. Even though it feels mighty nice to hear.
-4 [deleted] 2014-02-25
"Screaming from the top of [your] lungs about shills for years" and direct evidence
finally being released to the public of NSA involvement in such activities are very differentshowing conspiring between GCHQ and NSA in such activities are very different.Saying things like "I told you so, I knew it all along" only distracts from the importance of these leaks further and alienates people.
11 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
It wasn't my intention to sound like a know-it-all. It's just difficult to miss that many of the propaganda outlets online don't even hide it (example). Even outside of Reddit.
But one interesting thing to note here is that Greenwald's article incriminates the British intelligence agency GCHQ and not the NSA. I find that peculiar, even though I can't attribute it to anything.
3 [deleted] 2014-02-25
I didn't think that was your intention, and almost deleted my comment because of that, and starting to think I was becoming the distraction.
But there's another comment on this page, I just saw: "Once again, absolutely nothing new here." This kind of attitude is counter-productive, and it's pervasive with Greenwald leaks - every time he leaks a new document, unseen by the public, people start staying "nothing new, etc."
Also, you're right, my comment about the evidence of NSA involvement is unclear/misleading. Although it is a GCHQ document, it was shared with the NSA, so there is NSA involvement, but to the extent is still unknown.
Curious, what you find peculiar?
10 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
Sure, if you have an attitude of creating awareness, but not if you look for truth.
We now have reports that show spying from Australian, Canadian, British (this case), Swedish, and other intelligence agencies worldwide. Note that all of these reports were gathered from the NSA alone. One obvious conclusion can come of it, and I'll let you make it yourself.
0 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Why do you gotta do this to me......
8 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
Haha, I think you know the answer already. The conclusion is that the NSA is connected to all these other intelligence agencies. It's not a secret, and the reason I made it into a riddle is that I think they themselves want you to know that their tentacles can reach to every corner around the world.
1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Yes, I see that and believe it..
..my perspective on this is that the NSA is working (and paying in at least one case) these agencies to perform operations on American citizens so the NSA can claim plausible deniability, while NSA infiltrates the other FIVE EYE citizens, and thus GCHQ et al can claim plausible deniability there. Similar to this cooperation - this one really scared me.
3 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
You're absolutely right. As well as blaming the most incriminating leaks on foreign intelligence agencies. The worst one IMO was the spying on Brazilian corporations, which was done by Canada, not the US.
2 curiosity36 2014-02-25
Bingo.
NSA Worked Out Deal With GCHQ To Spy On UK Citizens, Secretly Expanded It from the funny-how-that-works dept
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131120/12242125305/nsa-worked-out-deal-with-gchq-to-spy-uk-citizens-secretly-expanded-it.shtml
1 trinsic-paridiom 2014-02-25
I have been guilty of that, ill be more careful. Its just that I see something that has been repeated and circulated a bunch of times. I think everyone has already saw it and is trying to distract from new information.
-5 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
19 [deleted] 2014-02-25
COINTELPRO was a long time a go. This is fresh evidence of the same kind of thing happening now and it should absolutely be shown and discussed. Your attempting to undermine the content by insinuating it's being done for money. Every journalist gets paid for work unless you think getting paid for work is a bad thing.
Your attacking Greenwald for releasing new evidence showing something that we've long suspected. Why is that?
-8 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
8 [deleted] 2014-02-25
But we didn't know about this without proof until it was released. We've had stuff in the past after COINTELPRO but just thinking we know isn't enough to really know is it now? We need evidence so we adjust our position from 'knowing' as you put it to really knowing.
What people need is evidence. We don't need to be spoon fed information, we need evidence from the source that it's happening so it puts an end to speculation. It's no good saying "shills exist guys" without offering evidence. People have seen stuff from the past and even recently and it's a long (and strongly) help position in the conspiracy community that it existed and that conspiracy theories were and are a target. I fully agreed with that and this new information does no harm at all by it being revealed. We need this information which fills in this gaps between past operations and now.
-4 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
6 [deleted] 2014-02-25
You seem to be dismissive again. Your statements about paying attention does not include evidence like what has been revealed. And yes, I've been paying plenty of attention but no matter how much attention I paid, the same kind of evidence has not been presented by a single person on this matter since The Church Committee.
I don't take the view that this is being done for money which is what your implying. By posting this information, they're putting themselves, their friends and family in the crosshairs for anything including disappearing into a shallow grave.
You keep pushing the idea that it's 'nothing new' and it's all for money.
Edit: I have slightly altered my post because I made a small mistake that looked like threatening behavior.
I changed...
"By posting this information, you're putting yourself, your friends and family in the crosshairs for anything including disappearing into a shallow grave."
To...
"By posting this information, they're putting themselves, their friends and family in the crosshairs for anything including disappearing into a shallow grave."
-3 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
5 [deleted] 2014-02-25
I'm talking about Snowden and Greenwald posting the leaks. They are putting themselves in the crosshairs by leaking the information and they've already been intimidated and threatened.
Wow, I am sorry if you thought it was directed at you but it most definitely was not.
I realise putting 'your' instead of 'they're' looks wrong but I meant the people that are leaking the NSA files.
2 moonpurr 2014-02-25
I just find it odd that someone like Greenwald wouldn't investigate the man offering the money and his economic investing ventures worldwide. Scahill as well.
2 IAmNotHariSeldon 2014-02-25
What type of safe bet? I'm not following you.
4 Hatchetman4NWO 2014-02-25
/u/moonpurr gave a good link to a video from The Corbett Report that can explain it infinitely better than I can.
But long story short, many believe that Greenwald and/or Snowden could be controlled.
6 Orangutan 2014-02-25
The Risks of Trusting the Snowden Story
Greenwald Responds to Critics, Rejects Conspiracism
8 moonpurr 2014-02-25
Nice. Thank you.
5 Orangutan 2014-02-25
THE GATEKEEPERS: Foundations Fund Phony "Left" Media
6 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
Awesome info-graphic, thanks for sharing.
3 Ryan2468 2014-02-25
These NGOs really are out of control.
6 pjvex 2014-02-25
As a countermeasure (which I encourage everyone to do), I searched on "infiltrate" and every post that came up that was of the Greenwald article I upvoted.
It drives me crazy that mods were deleting posts, votes, or comments... ironically, and in a recursive sort of way, these deletions reaffirm the proof of this whole "conspiracy".
6 br1Zian 2014-02-25
so this is pretty much everyone from /r/conspiratard
5 godiebiel 2014-02-25
We have been vindicated !!!! AGAIN
5 Jack___Torrance 2014-02-25
..and then change the moderation rules on forums to prevent them from being exposed
3 [deleted] 2014-02-25
ukraine NATO flavored 'revolution'/coup?
3 [deleted] 2014-02-25
in other words: the story of reddit, also.
3 Tech_49 2014-02-25
I'll be interested to see how quickly (if at all) this gets picked up by any other 'news' outlets.
3 eunosroadster 2014-02-25
I just noticed that Greenwald posted a link to the presentation in the article on his Twitter page.. I was unaware that he uploaded the complete document to The Intercept page along with his own article.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/documents/
Very interesting read!
2 Ryan2468 2014-02-25
The full document is linked in the original article.
3 eunosroadster 2014-02-25
Thanks, I must've missed it this morning.. Was going to make a new thread just encase I wasn't the only one who missed it.
Carry on..
3 sansfolly 2014-02-25
Did anyone catch the last page with the full size pic of Teller (of Penn and Teller) giving the last word? I wonder if they hired him to give a lesson or two or if they just randomly used his photo. Brings to mind their debunking of 9/11 in their series "Bullshit". Also the 3 pics of other magicians naming them as agents. It's been long known that Houdini (houdin?) was an agent but does anyone know anything about the others?
3 mehx1000 2014-02-25
This type of stuff is all too common in government organizations (and contractors). If you don't toe the line you become a target for political assassination using all of the methods used in the article. I love it how these people act like they've "arrived" and have the right (and the duty) to harass people for no reason. I feel sorry for them.
3 LHFan23432 2014-02-25
I now wonder if my thoughts, opinions, and beliefs are truly my own...
3 xXZoroasterXx 2014-02-25
I posted this on another thread in response to a post addressing Zionism but it is related to anything.
Zionism is just an ideological poster to assist the destructive assertions of wealthy corporate entities ultimately serving the economic (power) interests of the Rothschilds and their associates. Christian Evangelicalism and Radical Islam are used in the same fashion, especially in resource rich regions such as africa, middle east etc. 'Zionists', are really just another branch in the Rchild's money hoarding network, they are discreet and downgrade there existence as a driving political force, unlike the Vatican, one of their compliant rivals (money hoarding network). Most of the world's economies are dominated by the Rchilds and countries that aren't, tend to have violent replacement of government until they do; Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, incoming Venezuela. North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Russia are independent, China, India, Brazil and their allies have significant independence but are still influenced. A global economic unification is imminent, though no king rules forever and the Rchilds will lose power as new industries (New forms of energy, advanced internet and space technology) and a new corporate elite will emerge to overthrow them. It will gradually occur but it will happen, the institute that is the Vatican has been operating since Augustus, though they may have changed their face and creed, thrived for thousands of years due to the delay of civil progression, but because our society has rapidly accelerating civil progression, they won't be able to last too long. This is why conservatives and fascists exist to purposely degenerate the progress of civilisation so the feudalistic oligarchies and monarchies can maximise the time of rule. Essentially, the group of Money hoarding networks such as the Rchilds (and banker/corporate associates, Rockerfellers, Morgans etc.), Vatican, House of Saxe-Coburg/European Monarchies, Saudi/Islamic Monarchies etc. are currently in a loose alliance (not exactly loyal to each other) to dominate the world and snuff out other Money hoarding networks such as the Russian Oligarchy, Iranian Shia Islam, Chinese Oligarchy etc. Money hoarding networks = Nobility, Nobility = Top of the Food chain Part of the basic principles of Feudalism. We are not a democracy, we just democratically elect representatives who all serve the same feudal nobility, which barely changes. Edit: We cannot break this system, we have been living in it since the dawn of civilization, it is how society functions and will remain like this until trans-humanism, we need a dominant minority to command the masses. If you've ever played WoW, this is the basic concept of the Lich King, and when Arthas died this is why Bolvar Fordragon had to replace him, because the mindless scourge (zombie army) will be too destructive and rampant without a selfish ruler to manipulate and direct them in order to achieve a purpose. The only thing we can do is try to maintain a Lich King that is less evil malevolent and psychopathic, replacing Lich Kings that refuse to accept their time is over and retain power for an extended period.
This is why we are experiencing censorship and such, it is the circle of life, kings don't want to allow their children to replace them, thus seeking the fountain of youth.
1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
1 xXZoroasterXx 2014-02-25
nope, lol?
2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
2 xXZoroasterXx 2014-02-25
He's a dipshit
3 SoundSalad 2014-02-25
Genuinely surprised at the lack of cointelpro in this thread.
3 joseph177 2014-02-25
I would like to point out something that may not be obvious. This sub is highly managed using sophisticated software which notifies agents when certain topics arise. If you wish to get your topic past the 'new' queue, avoid using keywords and instead find creative ways to spell out the word/topic.
A simple example of this is here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1zoge0/everything_you_need_to_know_about_chemtrails/
This post has highly valuable information but it is easily targeted and supressed since it includes 'chemtrails' in the topic. We may nee to start getting creative with titles. Just a suggestion.
2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
5 avengingturnip 2014-02-25
No, r/stalkerwatch.
2 TheButtchin 2014-02-25
All the movies you see with this kind of thing happening makes you scoff at the idea, but now that it's real, it's kinda eerie.
1 adrixshadow 2014-02-25
The reason they can make any movie is we consider it fantasy.
Remember Stargate?
Yeah...
2 alllie 2014-02-25
A lot of that is too complicated for the people they hire figure out how to do.
2 wizesass 2014-02-25
Manipulation?
/r/bestof has been posting successful articles attacking the denizens of this sub with impunity, however we are banned from being featured there to possibly present the other side of the picture no matter what the merits of our contribution might be.
Seems fair right?
do not participate at these links. It makes you subject to an immediate ban.
I just put them up under fair use for discussion here in the persecuted, manipulated, backwoods.
Whispering in the well so to speak.
http://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/1ykty0/is_it_right_to_delete_posts_about_conspiracy/cfli2ay
do not participate
http://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheMetaLoop/comments/1y7mcr/will_the_true_digg_patriots_please_stand_up/cfivvp2?context=1
Do Not participate, no, seriously!
1 moonpurr 2014-02-25
And yet another great article allowing us to follow the money...
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/extraordinary-pierre-omidyar/
This one is veerrrryyyyy interesting!
7 fernando-poo 2014-02-25
Meh, I'll trust Greenwald and Poitras over these guys. NSFWCorp are pretty much just contrarian trolls. Mark Ames personally dislikes Glenn Greenwald for some reason and goes fishing for any excuse to write an article criticizing him. His other pasttime is bashing libertarianism and claiming it's a made up ideology invented by the Koch brothers.
2 Ryan2468 2014-02-25
It's always the Koch brothers.
5 Fuckyousantorum 2014-02-25
Couldn't it be disinformation? What makes it guaranteed truth?
-1 moonpurr 2014-02-25
Look into it. You will find the answers.
1 Licence2Shill 2014-02-25
orly?
1 mitchdenver 2014-02-25
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ywspe/new_snowden_doc_reveals_how_gchqnsa_use_the/cfopqrf
1 ENYAY7 2014-02-25
is it time to leave reddit? I really love this site, I get my news from reddit, but I don'y want want it, if it's constantly censored or maniupliated, or buried
2 Scoled321 2014-02-25
I went looking for an alternative yesterday. Not much luck finding a place with both a large compilation of articles and further submitted links in the threads.
1 ENYAY7 2014-02-25
Some very important stuff in this article. so is reddit compromised? what's next? SHould we leave
1 cccpcharm 2014-02-25
leave? come one it's half the fun, we can't call people the "s" word, but there's nothing in the rules about suggesting that what someone is saying sounds like something a compensated freedom hating scumbag might say.
1 fractalfrenzy 2014-02-25
Ok, we know it is happening. Let's talk about how we can fight back. There is no possible way systematically defaming political dissidents threw libel, fraud, and "false flag" attacks can be legally justified. Somehow this should end up in the Supreme Court. Of course we shouldn't rely on that corrupt bunch to stop this, but a legal fight would certainly bring it to the public's attention. Right now they are just doing this in the shadows. We need to force them to defend what they are doing so it can be met with the scrutiny it deserves.
This is just one idea. Let's hear some strategies for subverting the subversion of free discourse on the internet!
1 cccpcharm 2014-02-25
let me give you an example of how in the corral we are....I could pay for a website , set the entire thing up to mimick reddit....I could post the site and say "hey. come on over to my place, no paid shills here"....this of course would be shadowbanned, removed, whatnot...and if you were to see something like that, you could be guaranteed it was "them" just trying to steer you into another "open cage"
1 Fortheloveoflife 2014-02-25
There is only one solution and it would send most of this sub into a paranoia fuelled uproar. Some would claim it as boat and switch but there's only one way that it would work: 1) issue every ISP with the credentials to create 'internet passports' for every user. This would be the end of anonymity on the internet but it would mean no more sock puppets. It would also be the end of trolls, criminals, shills and sock puppets. 2) all content submitted by an individual would be traced to their internet passport. If someone is spreading disinfo, misinfo, criminal activity etc then they could effectively be traced and blocked from internet communication.
Can you all see why that would never happen?
1 cccpcharm 2014-02-25
the s-fest is in full swing...world news is poppin with s words
1 Frogtarius 2014-02-25
I bet there's a whole heap of those covert agents he's talking about here on this subreddit reading this shitz. How about becoming whistleblowers like snowden, perhaps you have sexy girlfiends and live in a nice Hawaii house too.
1 buildabeast 2014-02-25
/r/trueconspiracy
1 KhalifaKid 2014-02-25
wow they removed the sticky about the rules/mods discussion?
1 totes_meta_bot 2014-02-25
This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.
I am a bot. Comments? Complaints? Send them to my inbox!
1 adrixshadow 2014-02-25
This should be screenshoted and stickyed in the sidebar
1 1Bobbielewis 2014-02-25
Makes you question all the negative press we are seeing right now out of the Ukraine
http://1citizensopinion.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/is-yanukovychs-arrest-warrant-legitimate/
-1 buildabeast 2014-02-25
You seriously think that government cares about /r/conspiracy? I can guarantee it loves this sub because this sub spreads so much b.s. and false info. It actually damages the cause it was meant to serve. It makes us look crazy, and we are doing it to ourselves. The government doesn't need to damage /r/conspiracy's reputation because it has done it itself.
1 notloz2 2014-02-25
Jesus did you actually read the article? I have seen with my own two eyes shills submit antisemitic material to discredit the sub. Do you not think that they do this shit in other way's and means?
It's weird too how the admins get involved when criticisms are leveled at moderators and Reddit itself. But yet they do nothing when particular users are destabilizing different subreddits.
-1 daJamestein 2014-02-25
Ze spy has breached our defences... You have zeen what he has done to our colleagues! And Ze worst thing is... HE COULD BE ANYONE OF US!
-2 3DGrunge 2014-02-25
Glenn Greenwald is in on it though.
0 [deleted] 2014-02-25
do you think releasing this type of information slowly and watching the populace almost not care is the point?
-1 3DGrunge 2014-02-25
What is your question? Greenwald has not released any facts that were not manipulated and or exaggerated to make him the most money possible. He doesn't give a fuck about people other than himself. They "info" was "released" as slow as possible so he could make maximum profit from each "release".
1 [deleted] 2014-02-25
I'm wondering how Glenn Greenwald is in on it, or whats the point of releasing this information.
I'm a fan of James Corbett, i've heard his take on Greenwald in that round table discussion with Sibel and there take is he's getting lots of money but still leaking this information I wonder what the benefit of doing that is.
-2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
For a little while there, I didn't see a sticky post on the front page.
During that time, I didn't know what I was being told to think!
-5 [deleted] 2014-02-25
Why the fuck is this still on the front page? WE GOT IT
-7 Woodnot 2014-02-25
Hell...it's not just the government that does this, Anonymous attempt this as well...me thinks of the "Justice for Jenny" campaign against UnderTakerFreak1127 by 4chan...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQSAzaXIb8Q
6 Zebraton 2014-02-25
That's like saying the little kid that spies on his mother is like the NSA.
-9 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
3 SovereignMan 2014-02-25
Not in this sub. See Rule 10.
-15 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
1 Starcraft_III 2014-02-25
I don't know why you have been downvoted, you speak truth.
2 [deleted] 2014-02-25
[deleted]
3 trinsic-paridiom 2014-02-25
I think he was down voted because the "Once again, absolutely nothing new here." is a typical dis-info tactic designed to devalue the message.
-19 NeoPlatonist 2014-02-25
What we are quickly learning is that when people don't have to work all day to produce the means of their continued existence they turn to absolutely immoral activities. Therefore, all population in excess of those needed to continue the existence of the species ought to be purged.
6 amranu 2014-02-25
Let's not argue with people that try to discredit this subreddit, ignoring them is a far worse punishment
5 curiosity36 2014-02-25
Kill the handicapped, disabled, those that don't want to have kids, infertile men and women, homosexuals, etc ?
-9 NeoPlatonist 2014-02-25
Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. When people fill their time with activities other than simple recreation or labor in the production of real commodities of intrinsic value, they turn to evil schemes such as the ones Greenwald exposes. Pay people to play games, to write books, to give speeches, fine. But when you pay people to do this, it is time to close shop on whatever society in which it occurs. I mean, if this is the pinnacle of secular culture, then please please please give me theocracy!
8 curiosity36 2014-02-25
I'm with you on it being shameful to bankroll disinfo agents to patrol the internet. Not at all with you on purging or longing for a theocracy.
-7 NeoPlatonist 2014-02-25
Well then it seems like stuff like this is just something we will have to come to accept. Under theocracy we may not have 'freedom' to do and say what we want, to have sex with who we want, and to abort when we want, but at least we have concepts. Under secularism, these concepts are toast:
How can I trust you or anyone knowing that there is the distinct possibility that you are a lie?
3 curiosity36 2014-02-25
Would you trust me more if the president were the pope and we killed off all the gays?
-7 NeoPlatonist 2014-02-25
Yes actually. Although I'm not sure why you are bringing the gays into it. Why not the jews or the blacks?
3 curiosity36 2014-02-25
Wow. I had assumed that since Jews and Blacks could be seen as needed to continue the existence of the species, as they could reproduce, you wouldn't need to "purge" them.
There are a lot of loving people here, but I've run into some that really get me down. I don't know what kind of religion would coincide with your vision, but it has nothing to do with God.
-1 paperzplz 2014-02-25
what's wrong with immoral activities?
64 AssuredlyAThrowAway 2014-02-25
Worldnews mods are masters of manipulating the organic curation of content. Watch them closely.
10 amranu 2014-02-25
I attempted to post just the slides to r/news however my post was immediately filtered.
The original article was removed as 'opinion/analysis'. I am inquiring in what way it would be valid to submit this information to r/news now.
The post I made is located here
-15 SurfohNahmicks 2014-02-25
How exactly does the Greenwald article apply to world news?
23 spasticbadger 2014-02-25
Because the Internet is used by the world.
12 Zebraton 2014-02-25
Care to show any angle at all that it wouldn't be news that impacts the world?
7 [deleted] 2014-02-25
yawn...
8 dehehn 2014-02-25
Take a look in your url field, see that www up there? Know what that stands for?
2 serenity_suppository 2014-02-25
It's an intranational thing between five eyes
-3 Cainedbutable 2014-02-25
I personally think you're reading too far into it. Had they wanted to hide all this, both threads would have been deleted. As would this one. As would the countless other threads floating around Reddit about this same issue.
20 sushisection 2014-02-25
I have a feeling this rabbithole is much deeper than i want to believe.
-2 dubdubdubdot 2014-02-25
I bet you live on your mothers couch.
3 Yearoftheboomerang 2014-02-25
Why would you outsource something like that to a country with equally high labor costs?
1 cumtrails 2014-02-25
anti-aging in mice 2010 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans
there's the argument that the old creeps who control the policies will die off and we can move on to something better...if they keep on living longer, recycle em in and out and some plastic surgery lol
3 7i77y 2014-02-25
History is cyclical. Great empires rise and fall in the ashes of those before them, forgotten by men but remembered chemically. Maybe one day we'll get it right, but we're snowballing now. No sense in getting illusions of grandeur on a subforum.