When used as torture, yes. Conversely; 3 hours on LSD can feel like an eternity of heaven.

Its not the LSD, it is the minds behind its use as a weapon that is bad.

Also if you can use the experience to move further into yourself working towards experiencing love and compassion and move away from fear based mental structures you can theoretically make the experience how you want it. But you need to have extreme control over you mind and under circumstances like that im sure it would be difficult, but not impossible. All LSD does is force open the mind to its full potential. You usually dont want to be forcing it open like that, but if you dont have a choice the only thing you can do is move further into yourself.

Just a side note, you build up a massive (temporary) tolerance for LSD just after one trip.
Taking it day after day would probably have little or no effect, even with high doses..

I'm sure with the CIA you are getting controlled clean doses. They may be able to work around that.

The work around isn't "controlled clean doses", it's using a drug like Nelotanserin between trips.

Nice. What's the drug do?

It's a 5-HT2A inverse agonist, apparently trialed for insomnia.

only the tests performed under lab conditions.

this is true, however all you have to do it double the dose and bam! your tripping again. same is true for mushrooms. I just cannot imagine 174 days of LSD. I have had a couple bad trips in my day and it felt like an eternity in hell. Every negetive emotion simultaneously running through me. visions of a white robed, white bearded man walking with a gandalf like cane turning into demons and staring right at me. horrible visions and hallucinations. i honestly thought that i was never going to be sane again. 6 months of continuos tripping is torture. plain and simple.

"Just a side note, you build up a massive (temporary) tolerance for LSD just after one trip."

What makes you say this?

Try taking LSD today and the same amount again tomorrow.. Report back with your findings.
Just google 'LSD tolerance', it's a well known.. "issue", if you will.

I've found things like that to be very subjective, and dependent on the individual involved

LSD tolerance is well known and not subjective, it's a question of brain chemistry, you run out of transmitters. But "doctor" Ewen Cameron just upped the doses to almost lethal levels, and combined it with an umbrella of other drugs. That guy lived in his own little hell, and just had to share it.

"LSD tolerance is well known and not subjective, it's a question of brain chemistry, you run out of transmitters"

What "transmitters" do you run out of, specifically? Do you have a source for this information? Have you ever actually taken it?

LSD desensitizes 5-HT2A receptors: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20827462

Sedating people with a drug like Nelotanserin between trips would plausibly reverse LSD tolerance.

1) That is in rabbits.

2) They are inferring desensitization by the number of "head bobs", they weren't actually measuring brain activity, as far as I can tell.

3) They administered another drug, DOI, after the LSD in order to elicit the head bobs. Might there be some interaction between the two drugs that could explain any change in behavior? It is also seems to me to be quite presumptuous to assume 'head bobs' is an objective metric for tracking sensitivity at the 5-HT2A receptors just because activity there tends to increase head bobs.

4) I was responding to guy who claimed you "run out of transmitters" which is both untrue, and impossible. You would die if you actually "[ran] out of transmitters"

It seriously boggles my mind how people don't understand that every drug, literally every single drug, effects each individual differently, when it comes to tolerance, absorption and the breakdown of the drug.

The same thing has already been shown in human cells though, with the plain english conclusion that some people with ADHD and Schizophrenia "trip more balls": http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/66/5/1293.short

Overall I really wouldn't knock behavioral observation as a way of qualitatively measuring receptor desensitization in a known pathway, ask anyone who's dropped acid!

You're correct about the running out of transmitters part though, that's a common urban legend. There are drugs that produce lasting deficits of actual neurotransmitters though, such as serotonin for several days after taking MDMA (and some related SSRAs).

Read up on brain chemistry, I'm not qualified to be your teacher.

About LSD. Yes. I had to. It was a hard choice for me, because it DOES fuck you up, but I was aching for the experience and enjoyed it. I was studying comparative religion and needed a spiritual experience. I don't resort to simple tricks like that anymore. But it honestly helped me to transcend the first couple of times. Like Eurydike; in the netherworld, where no birds sing! Give, and it shall be given.

Every drug, literally every single drug, is going to affect each individual differently. We have different genes. Our brain chemistry is different. You tell me to "read up on brain chemistry" but seriously anyone who has ever taken a biochem class understands that tolerance of drugs varies from person to person, for literally dozens of reasons.

Your claims;

"LSD tolerance is well known and not subjective"

Completely wrong

"it's a question of brain chemistry"

True

"you run out of transmitters"

Completely wrong.

the lsd tolerance applies to shrooms as well if i'm not mistaken

yes but the doses are usually guesswork, from my experience anyway (one batch stronger than another, even from pretty local spots that i dug up from)

Doses aren't guesswork with 4-Aco-DMT hydrolyzed to psilocin, and the same thing occurs.

oh, i thought u were talking about shrooms, not the processed chemical

Synaptic neurotransmitters.

I thought there was no lethal dose of LSD.

It's true. I was actually thinking the same thing while reading this, apparently after you trip you should even wait half a year or so because the trip may not even be as strong/good without spacing it out.

Think repeated/daily dosing of LSD is extreme? Meet BZ, the USG's 'super hallucinogen' of choice:

According to Dr. Solomon Snyder, a leading psychopharmacologist at Johns Hopkins University, which conducted drug research for the Chemical Corps, "The army's testing of LSD was just a sideshow compared to its use of BZ." Clinical studies with EA-2277 (the code number for BZ) were initiated at Edgewood Arsenal in 1959 and continued until 1975. During this period an estimated twenty-eight hundred soldiers were exposed to the superhallucinogen. A number of military personnel have since come forward claiming that they were never the same after their encounter with BZ.

A partial list of drugs used in MK-ULTRA (also Project BLUEBIRD, MK-SEARCH & the still-classified subprojects), provided by an Edgewood test subject.

By this time the superhallucinogen was ready for deployment in a grenade, a 750-pound cluster bomb, and at least one other large-scale bomb. In addition the army tested a number of other advanced BZ munitions, including mortar, artillery, and missile warheads. The superhallucinogen was later employed by American troops as a counterinsurgency weapon in Vietnam, and according to CIA documents there may be contingency plans to use the drug in the event of a major civilian insurrection.

Unbelievable. They were doing some crazy stuff in the 50s and 60s.

Yep. Just imagine what they're doing now.

my experiences have been primal: when i went a little bit too hard on it, i began to behave ape-like. its really weird.

That's literally impossible because of the tolerance LSD causes for the two weeks following a trip.

Continuously dosing for 174 days would make you immune to the effects after a week.

[deleted]

Original research ftw. Incredible work.

I came across this Dr. Cameron fellow in a book I read not too long ago. Insane stuff.

Edit: Definitely worthy of a sticky.

Also, anyone notice that last night both Daily Show and Colbert Report, as much as they like to trivialize important issues, both gave shout outs to a bunch of different CIA atrocities?

Also worth mentioning that Dr. Cameron wasn't just some anomalous quack- he was the President of the APA (which publishes the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM) and several other professional organizations, all while conducting MKUltra experiments that left some patients permanently comatose.

Cameron served as President of the Canadian, American and World Psychiatric Associations, the American Psychopathological Association and the Society of Biological Psychiatry during the 1950s. Notwithstanding a career of honors, and leadership in early 1950s psychiatric circles, he has been heavily criticized in some circles for his administration without patient consent of disproportionately-intense electroshock therapy and experimental drugs, including LSD, which caused some patients to become permanently comatose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Ewen_Cameron

He was head of the World Psychiatric Association at one time, I believe. One of the unethical incidences that I read about which involved a patient of his was one where the patient was involuntarily dosed fatally with mescaline by way of injection. Something like a fatal dose by many factors, whereby the patient essentially hallucinated to death by heart attack.

As I said- unethical. If someone can be helped by psychiatry that's swell, yet I think it is very important for people to understand the history of this field of soft science which is involved in so many peoples' lives with such important repercussions.

To sum up, as I understand it, the man was given a world-class medical approval at the time, yet was essentially conducting illegal psychological warfare research on non-consenting Canadian patients, and being paid to do so by the CIA.

As Monty Python says, "Oh, come see the violence inherent in the system!".

Yep. A pretty fucked up human being.

For those wanting to tumble even further down the rabbit-hole, check out some of The Montauk Project books by Preston Nichols et. al. There is some weird, weird stuff surrounding Dr. Cameron, and the name Cameron is general. It's really quite fascinating...

Stick it! We have three mods approval.

4!

Yeah I didn't watch that but the fact that the media seems so much more comfortable going after the CIA than the NSA right now makes me wonder. I hope the infighting theories are true, if so it seems like a good thing.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I wonder if the CIA and NSA are fighting here on reddit lol

If you look at the whole situation from that perspective maybe the Feinstein thing is the NSA hitting back at the CIA, after the initial Snowden embarrassment.

This is somewhat relevant, its a vice documentary looking into scopolamine 'The Devil’s Breath'.

No, it's not relevant at all. Scopolamine is largely incapable of 'brainwashing' someone. While it can break down their will to a certain extent, the success of it is unpredictable because of the vivid and terrifying hallucinations that can complicate the process. Also, the individuals are so incapacitated that they believe they are somewhere else. They are rendered incapable of operating basic machinery.

Vice drastically overplayed the drug and its exaggerated local reputation without looking into the background of its pharmacology and the actuality of its effects.

[deleted]

I don't think so- mass drugging of scopolamine would not work as anyone would be able to influence anybody else at any time.

There are known Scopolamine antidotes, one I've taken in the past is Sunifiram: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-002-0577-3

Or is that just what they WANT you to think? ;)

Obvious idiot trying to provoce.

Lol, take scopolamine and try to pretend like you'll still be able to even function. Brainwashing means the person has to actually be able to do what they say...

That may be a little bit of a stretch. I could see it being applied to a situation like James Holmes.

Is this where I'm supposed to say "where is your tinfoil hat?"

Ahhhhh I'm so glad you're active again. You might just be my favorite user on all of Reddit.

Good Work !! Keep up these excellent, well researched posts !!

Another great and well sourced post.

I'd like to add something which is an opinion only so make of if what you will. I believe that taking away the ethical practices of medical and psychological research which has been embedded for a while could possibly garner results that can not be seen due to the limited nature of applied morality. These experiments were way more extreme than would be allowed because of the obvious implications for the subject.

Is it possible that the intense courses of drugs coupled with other techniques got results that remain a secret?

Certainly possible. Who could learn more about the human brain than those pushing it to its absolute limit in every conceivable way?

More modern (consenting)experiments have pushed the limits of the brain a lot farther though, I'd recommend reading up on repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation. Here's a fascinating video of rTMS in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX23Zzoqqfk

Electrical Stimulation of the brain was also a big part of MKUltra. Read here some of what Dr. Delgado discovered using brain electrodes that he called "Stimoceivers."

Dr. Delgado, a neurosurgeon and professor at Yale, [57][58][59][60][61][62] received funding for brain electrode research on children and adults. He did research in monkeys and cats, and in one paper describes the cats as "mechanical toys." He was able to control the movements of his animal and human subjects by pushing buttons on a remote transmitter box. In 1966, Delgado asserted that his experiments "support the distasteful conclusion that motion, emotion and behavior can be directed by electrical forces. Humans can be controlled like robots by push buttons." [63] BB 88, 89, MC 147

An 11-year old boy underwent a partial change of identity upon remote stimulation of his brain electrode: "Electrical stimulation of the superior temporal convolution induced confusion about his sexual identity. These effects were specific, reliable, and statistically significant. For example, the patient said, 'I was thinking whether I was a boy or a girl,' and 'I'd like to be a girl.'" After one of the stimulations the patient suddenly began to discuss his desire to marry the male interviewer. Temporal-lobe stimulation produced in another patient open manifestations and declarations of pleasure, accompanied by giggles and joking with the therapist. In two adult female patients stimulation of the same region was followed by discussion of marriage and expression of a wish to marry the therapist. [64] BB 88, 89

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol10pg

Perhaps more interesting is Dr. Delgado said repeatedly that he reached a point in his research wherein he discovered he didn't need the stimoceivers at all, and was able to get the same results using only "shaped and pulsed EM waves."

We take up Delgado's research on electromagnetic fields and their effect on people. "I could later do with electro-magnetic radiation what I did with the stimoceiver. It's much better because there's no need for surgery," he explains. "I could make apes go to sleep. But I stopped that line of research fifteen years ago. But I'm sure they've done a lot more research on this in both the US and Russia."

http://cabinetmagazine.org/issues/2/psychcivilization.php

Delgado's also interviewed by CNN on their special on Radio Frequency Weapons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMNa4RcmKqA

Also worth noting that MKUltra subprojects included "techniques of activation of the human organism by remote electronic means."

At least one subproject of the MK Ultra project was about the electronic control of human behaviour (subproject 119). Subproject 119[40] had the purpose to provide funds for a study to make a critical review of the literature and scientific developments related to the recording, analysis and interpretation of bio-electric signals from the human organism, and activation of the human behaviour by remote means. The survey encompassed five main areas: techniques of activation of the human organism by remote electronic means, bio-electric sensors, recording, analysis and standardization of data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

The big problem with weaponizing rTMS is the inverse square law, you've got to have the radiation source right next to the subject's head if you want to produce any kind of focal effects in different brain regions.

The required field intensities are also very high, on the order of 1-3 Teslas.

I've heard that said before, yet there are also engineers who seem to have different views on this. For instance, in the CNN report I linked to an electrical engineer builds an "RF mind interference device" based off Russian schematics. He seems confident in his assertion that:

In three weeks, I could put together a weapon that would take care of a whole town.

by building a weapon that would

Induce, basically, what would be considered hallucinations in people. Direct them to do things against their so-called better judgment.

The prototype he built was demonstrated successfully transmitting images into a CNN reporter's mind.

It's certainly possible the military is working with technology that the general public isn't privy to. Also worth noting is that Delgado wasn't working with TMS at all, but implants which he later found were, themselves, antiquated.

I'm of the opinion that the capabilities of RF interaction with the human body isn't a subject well-known to many civilian scientists. There are even reports of RF being bounced off the ionosphere still being capable of having biological effects.

Another RF weapon that was ready for use back in 1978 was developed under the guise of Operation PIQUE. Developed by the CIA, the plan was to bounce high powered radio signals off the ionosphere to affect the mental functions of people in selected areas, including Eastern European nuclear installations.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/suhajd~1.htm

I'd agree with the three weeks part, I'm actually building an rTMS machine currently, and easily could have finished it in three weeks had I been doing it full time.

The problem is doing it remotely.

You aren't targeting the entire brain, you're targeting very specific regions. In my case, I'm using low frequency to temporarily inhibit the left anterior temporal cortex to induce savant abilities (source). Low frequency rTMS on the left auditory cortex has been used to reduce hallucinations in schizphrenics (source).

Now if you switch over to high frequency rTMS, that excites brain activity instead of inhibiting it (source), you can plausibly target the left auditory cortex and induce hallucinations.

The neuroscience in this is sound. The issue though is the physics, disregarding the enormous amount of power required to generate 1-3 tesla magnetic fields, you still run into the problem that there is no way to discern between what parts of the brain you are hitting with your magnetic field at great distance.

Even if such a device as ultra low frequency MASER did exist, you'd still need to be constantly aiming it at the exact brain region in each person you are targeting.

Just shooting a bunch of radiation into the ionosphere hoping to achieve mind control is like firing birdshot at a TV remote 200 yards away to change the channel.

The only way you can get this to work is invasive implantation of hardware that can be remotely activated, like the experiment with the bull. That, or having your target wear the electrodes!

That's interesting and I hope you'll update us with your progress. Of course there's likely a large difference between an "RF mind interference device" as demonstrated by the build based on Soviet schematics and traditional rTMS devices.

The only way you can get this to work is invasive implantation of hardware that can be remotely activated, like the experiment with the bull. That, or having your target wear the electrodes!

Dr. Delgado is the man that conducted the experiments with the bull and is the same Yale neuroscientist who discovered that he could get the same results without implants at all. Delgado also utilized invasive implantation of hardware in humans brains, with the results I quoted above, but later lamented he didn't know what he does know now so that he could have controlled Franco, remotely, with shaped and pulsed EM waves at a distance.

Delgado responds "But who could have put the electrodes into the dictator? With electromagnetic radiation we could have controlled the dictator from a distance. We did some experiments at Yale where we influenced the brain from up to 30 meters away."

http://cabinetmagazine.org/issues/2/psychcivilization.php

I see no reason to believe he's lying about this. It's certain he knows more about electronic stimulation of the brain than you or I.

It would be interesting to know exactly what he meant by "not needing implants and achieving the same results with shaped and pulsed EM waves" or what, exactly, was entailed in the experiments "he conducted at Yale" wherein "they influenced the brain from up to 30 meters away."

It's my understanding that rTMS doesn't function based on radio frequency, while the device illustrated does. Therefore, it's kind of comparing apples and oranges when discussing how long it will take to build an rTMS, the power densities needed to power an RF Mind Interference Device, etc. I'm not a physicist and don't know how well radio waves bounced off the ionosphere can be refocused to the earth, but if the waves have the potential for biological interaction then using them in that manner seems feasible to me- and, apparently, to others in the government as well. We certainly know that waves can be bounced off the ionosphere with some measure of accuracy due to Over The Horizon radar systems.

I have no reason to believe Delgado or the engineer featured on CNN are simply making these claims up. Delgado pioneered the work in this field, so simply saying "It can't be done" doesn't convince me he's deluded in his statements to the contrary. As to the power densities needed, CNN said the device was transmitting at only "one one-thousandth of the Earth's magnetic field strength," while successfully, inducing visual hallucinations in the CNN reporter's brain. This was demonstrated and reviewed by Dr. Robert Becker, a two-time Nobel nominee for his work in the biological effects of electromagnetism.

From the video:

Robert Becker: This is a very significant experiment because it carries our understanding of how vision is actually performed a step further into the mystery.

DeCaro: He said he thought the machine caused a disturbance in the brain's interpretation of vision. And as such, could be used as a weapon.

Keep um coming.

Would you like to know more?

Or see how deep the rabbit hole goes?

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiracybestof] /u/three_letter_agency's exposé part 1 on MK-ULTRA

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This is a great post. I really appreciate someone taking the time to detail how we can be programmed.

Think you are above influence? So do all the people that watch Anderson Cooper.

The only way to resist is to follow the three pillars of Morality, Principles, and Ethics.

The only way to resist is to follow the three pillars of Morality, Principles, and Ethics

This is a really interesting response, I have been doing research in mind control for awhile now on a work I am writing and havent been able to find anything that could counter mind control. Maybe Im not thinking it through as well as I should be, but why does the three pillars of Morality, Principles, and ethics allow you to resist being influenced with mind control technologies?

Wow this is literally some of the most fucked shit i have ever read. This is complete madness...and things have only gotten more extreme.

Think about what forms of control will be possible once these tech companies invade your body. One day you will just have to have the latest internet-connected brain expansions to keep up with the technological rat race. Our loving corporate overlords would never abuse such quasi-godlike powers. That would be the end of the species as we know it, and nobody wants that (or so you'd think.)

Interesting read.

Critique:

1. When you quote, cite.

For example, in reddit's markdown,

this is considered a block quote directly from a source.

It should, therefore, be accompanied by a source citation.

2. When you cite something from the internet, on the internet, citations should be hyperlinked to the source.

Having read about MK-ULTRA many times in the past, the block quotes in your post certainly don't seem dubious. But, it would lend credibility to the topic and presentation if your post properly presented source citations.

Peace

While I'm sure you'll be able to come up with something that works for your "style" or "preference", I would like to draw your attention to a very specific type of markdown supported by reddit: definition links.

It allows you to put a your citations in, as you write the article; then, add the links at the bottom (hidden from view).

These kinds of links actually work extremely well with superscript. (you will need to "view source" in order to see what I've actually done here)

So, you can cite, complete with hyperlink, this way.¹

In the above example, I've used the numeral "1" as the viewable link citation. And, in order to illustrate the syntax, I've used the letter "a" as the definition reference. But, it could even more easily have been done by using the numeral "1" for both portions - to allow you to keep track of your links. As in this instance.²

When you see the actual source for this (click the source link below this comment), you'll notice that the link definitions are NOT cluttering up the text of this comment. Instead, they are listed (invisibly in the viewed comment) at the bottom. They could be anywhere, in fact. I could have placed them at the top... or at the end of each paragraph where they occurred (this would make it easy to remove links to paragraphs you might delete).

tl;dr: this style of linking/citing is very useful for this kind of "research" type presentation because of its flexibility (as in the case of the last paragraph above when you might want to remove a citation and its link, without having to dig around in separate areas of the document).

p.s. This was a PSA comment. Nothing more, nothing less. I wasn't trying to imply that you needed instruction for how to link. I was simply offering info for the public about an alternative to the straightforward [linked text](http://fully.qualified.url "hovertext") method.

i wonder if MK-ULTRA is still being used, from what i've read, it wasn't only LSD used, children were sexually abused to create multiple personality disorder, so that they could be "controlled" using code names/numbers/music, TRANCE-Formation of America by Cathy O'Brien, also Thanks for the Memories, the memoirs of Bob Hope's and Henry Kissinger's mind-controll slave by Brice Taylor

horror stories of CIA mind control.

this should should have been stopped, the torture of ppl to gain info for personal and/or political gain is disgusting.

edit: also 1996 by Gloria Naylor

According to Victor Marchetti, ex-CIA, it is still going on today under a different name.

ty for update - in my haste to respond to this thread i failed to mention that the books about MK-ULTRA SHOULD NOT BE READ BY:

ANYONE that is/ws a victim that has not been deprogrammed ANYONE that is not of age (obviously this is not for children to read)

realizing this is still going on brings tears to my eyes, it is so evil.

glad you split it into parts

[deleted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafpfO8leX4

This is a wonderful post. There's so much information out there on this that I have always found it kind of overwhelming. Thanks for a clear and succinct round up of some of the basic facts. Looking forward to your follow up posts!

I hope you talk about the monarch butterflies and somewhere over the rainbow at some point.

So does the 'MK' stand for Mind Kontrol, or is that too obvious?

Any other interpretations?

MK is the digraph representing the CIA Technical Services Division.

Anything they sponsor will be preceded by those two letters.

mind KINETICS perhaps?

This is when the notorious "polybius" arcade machine comes in.

only the tests performed under lab conditions.

The work around isn't "controlled clean doses", it's using a drug like Nelotanserin between trips.

The only way to resist is to follow the three pillars of Morality, Principles, and Ethics

This is a really interesting response, I have been doing research in mind control for awhile now on a work I am writing and havent been able to find anything that could counter mind control. Maybe Im not thinking it through as well as I should be, but why does the three pillars of Morality, Principles, and ethics allow you to resist being influenced with mind control technologies?