Yup. Another controlled opposition. Good eye. Slowly leaking stuff that has already been known causing "reforms".

If he was truly a sore, he'd be dead.

By this logic, all leakers we know of are fake, because none of them are dead.

Like Manning?

Manning isn't dead....

No, he's just a woman now in a 5x5 cell, totally living! What a life! Yum!

But the claim was that if he was if Snowden was a real leak he would be dead. If thats the benchmark, then Manning isn't really a leak, and Assange is a fake as well, cause they aren't dead either.

Daniel Ellsberg too, oh and Tice, Binney and Drake.

They just need to get on the wrong plane one day.

They couldn't kill him because he was too high profile.

Now they just let him rot in jail and then either kill him or make it look like he killed himself. Wait a little bit and let people forget him.

Are you new here?

Assange isn't free either. He too is too high profile. They can wait for him to get on a plane.

Kinda, but still, Snowden is also high profile, a house hold name. You don't have to be knew or old to this sub to use common sense. There is no reason to assume Snowdens leaks aren't valid. Things being released were not common knowledge and known. So far you haven't provided a reason that others are valid and Snowden isn't. I'm willing to entertain the idea, but so far you have set a standard that disqualifies nearly every whistleblower situation you can come up with.

Kinda, but still, Snowden is also high profile, a house hold name.

He's a flavor of the week.

You don't have to be knew or old to this sub to use common sense.

If you're new your "common sense" is probably a lot of "programming"

There is no reason to assume Snowdens leaks aren't valid.

They might be valid but for most around here it's kind of "duh yeah we know"

Things being released were not common knowledge and known.

Again, you're new.

So far you haven't provided a reason that others are valid and Snowden isn't.

That wasn't the point of the post, the point of the post is to out Snowden as an agent and therefore shouldn't be trusted.

I'm willing to entertain the idea, but so far you have set a standard that disqualifies nearly every whistleblower situation you can come up with.

Go look up the list of dead whistle blowers. Some may have just stayed at home a lot and haven't been a recent enough threat but one day maybe one of them will be coaxed in to getting vaccinated for something...

Seriously, I'm new to the sub, I'm not new to the scene. And I'm not new to the world. And to use that to discount what I'm saying is very very wrong.

I knew he was CIA. I figured he was in some part of the government to begin with. There is literally nothing to "trust" about him. He's not providing me or anyone with any information that we need to rely on. So sure, I don't "trust" him any more than I "trust" you.

I just haven't seen a reason to believe he is providing false information. Something people "know" are guesses and presumptions, even if they turn out to be true. I have friends who "know" who killed Kennedy too. They don't "know" any more than people on this sub "know" everything they say they know. They have ideas. They follow suspicions. Snowdens leaks have confirmed much of what I suspected. Much that people think they "know" but don't truly.

But beyond that, it informs those who don't know or have the suspicion, which is MOST of the population. So maybe the real issue is that you spend to much time in here instead of out there, so you don't realize how much Assange and Snowden have revealed to the general populace that they didn't have the foggiest idea of.

Seriously, I'm new to the sub, I'm not new to the scene. And I'm not new to the world. And to use that to discount what I'm saying is very very wrong.

Dude, I figured you out as being new to the sub, that should say something. Stick around for a while and when you become beaten down with the bullshit then you'll get what's up.

Here's a tip, try the no agenda show: www.noagendashow.com

It helps cut through the media bullshit.

I just haven't seen a reason to believe he is providing false information.

It's not false it's just not really all that groundbreaking. If he came out with aliens and photos of aliens and a whole bunch of shit then he'd really be whistle blowing. "NSA Records your phone calls" around this sub was reacted with "duh, told ya" besides other whistle blowers had already blown the whistle on the NSA.

So maybe the real issue is that you spend to much time in here instead of out there

There's nothing out there. It's all an illusion. Wake up.

so you don't realize how much Assange and Snowden have revealed to the general populace that they didn't have the foggiest idea of.

Again, it's all been released before, the media was just told to shine a light on Snowden. Because the CIA needs to fuck with the NSA.

Now this is telling. You figured me out because after my time in this world, I haven't come to the same conclusions as you so I must be new. This is your perception problem, not mine.

I agree, to me its not ground breaking, but to many people it is. Sometimes the most important news is that which finally gets announced to those too dull to seek for themselves.

Nothing out there? Wake up yourself. The PEOPLE are out there. The ones that matter are out there. Get out and walk among your own for a bit. They are the ones needing saving, not people in here.

The reason or cause for the general populace gaining knowledge is inconsequential. Use the tools at hand to accomplish a job. Every piece of info can me a tool, for good, for bad, for nothing. You only choose to make it unimportant.

Our difference is not our time spent in this realm of thinking. Our difference is perception and how we view the world and other people. Nothing on this forum matters. Nothing. In the end, if we stay to this forum discussing it, they win. Only flesh and blood matters in this life.

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Are you kidding? Am I being trolled this whole time? Taking the high ground? Is that what you saw? Is that what you read? Unbelievable, what a waste of my time. I thought we were having a good conversation. I came to the realization by your comments that we won't come to an agreement because we see the world differently.

You didn't kill anything. You showed you view the world different. I know what you are saying, I disagree with what you are saying, but you apparently can't see past your own view as being absolute and so you can discard those views you see differently. So what about this...

Its not the high ground, its reality! You said there is nothing out there when I was very clearly talking about going out there to be among the people. You view that as nothing, an illusion, I very damn obviously view it as important. How is that anything but a fucking completely different view of the world we live in?

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I'm really not sure what to say. You have this nasty tendency to simply skip over anything you don't like. Like the fact that I have multiple times said that I don't trust him and don't need to. That information is a tool in and of itself to use for good or bad.

Like I said, I knew he was CIA, he might still be CIA, I don't care because its not like I trusted him inherently to begin with, and him being CIA or not shouldn't stop you, me, or anyone from evaluating information as it comes in.

Geezus, what do you want me to say? "Fuck snowden I'll ignore everything he's says without thinking about it"?

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Fair point. And with that, I will agree, he's used up, regardless of who or what he is.

Also, thats not fair to me. At any point in time I'm thinking about things on multiple levels. I simple do not have a strong ability to keep things simple, and as such, its not fair to you or anyone else. Its not fair since you can't see where my brain is going and I can't adequately map it out. I'm sorry. It must seem like I'm off everywhere in all directions. I'm not, I promise you I'm filing directly towards your point. I'm not trying to derail the conversation, I'm really not.

No. They arent leakers but these opposition folks wound up dead. Michael Hastings, William Cooper just to name a few...

I do think Bradley Manning and Julian Assange are legit as well

Had forgotten about Hastings, had not heard of Cooper, Ill have to look him up, thank you!

William Cooper was the uncontrolled version of Alex Jones. Dude got shot up by the feds for tax evasion. "Behold a Pale Horse " is a classic

Link Snowden to CIA, notice which organizations promoted him as a hero, link it to Ukraine...get worried.

Very possible, that Snowden is an agent, and if you have a security clearance and work in intelligence, who are you working for, by any definition, but the primary group.

It is also very possible, that while he knows a lot about digital data and the internet, he may not have any idea of his roll.

I don't think Oswald had any idea of who his employer was, at any time, all that kind of stuff is easy and why there are so many CIA front organizations, kind of the perfect corporate fascist organization, some even turn profit for CIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_snowden

It's in his first paragraph: "former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and former contractor for the National Security Agency (NSA)."

Yes, that doesn't mean his act was CIA directed, if it was, get worried.

*meant to mean.

Everyone knows, once you're in the CIA you're never out.

source?

Every single gang ever.

It's like telling a theist there is no god. You're running up against their delusions, these well-fed, never inspected, mental delusions. They include ideas like:

"Snowden wouldn't lie. He gave up a really nice life so he can...."

"Snowden is a hero. He brought the government's wrongdoings to light."

"They took our jobs!"

The exact same mentality.

Please repost this with information provided is he what we think he is.

I've seen some good stuff being brought up in this thread.

Every whistle blower with actual intel to leak works for the government in some way. You can't have access to this type of intel without it. What, you thought some how he magically got this info from....from who? Whistleblowers all come from the inside or have contacts to the inside. Thats how it works.

He worked at the CIA first where they cooked up their little plan with him and sent him over to the NSA like a trojan horse.

So, CIA working against the NSA? Parts of the government turned against each other? I don't know, sounds good to me. Better them fucking with each other than us.

CIA working against the NSA?

Yeah, the CIA and the FBI are pretty buddy buddy though.

Parts of the government turned against each other?

It happens all the time on all levels, it's a grab for funding and relevance, why do you think the FBI is on a 6 week cycle?

Better them fucking with each other than us.

But they are fucking with us, they use us, they take your tax money and allow you and people you know walk in to harms way.

Well, I'm aware they are fucking us. Still doesn't mean a whistle blower is fake. I just don't know who else besides someone on the inside you think would be a credible whistle blower? Some blogger who makes up his own theories and provides no evidence and has no credible reason to believe he has access to the information in the first place?

Still doesn't mean a whistle blower is fake.

He may have blown a whistle but it wasn't on anything that people didn't already highly suspect. He may not be fake but we can't blindly follow this guy as being awesome. If he's telling you google is safe because it's encrypted do you think you should still trust him after finding out he's a CIA agent?

I just don't know who else besides someone on the inside you think would be a credible whistle blower?

It'd be fine if they didn't work for the CIA first.

Some blogger who makes up his own theories and provides no evidence and has no credible reason to believe he has access to the information in the first place?

Maybe they get a hidden camera and catch some goings on?

I touched on this elsewhere.

Separate this sub from the majority of the US. The majority of the US didn't suspect crap that Snowden has revealed. I don't think you realize just how ignorant the populace is. If you think most people knew about what he has said, you don't realize it at all.

I know you are stuck on the CIA thing, not an issue for me. The deeper he was the better his intel could be. As I said, I don't really "trust" him as there isn't any info I have to trust to rely on.

And any security person can tell you there is precisely zero chance of sneaking in a hidden camera when you don't have security clearance. If you don't have clearance, you aren't getting close. Thats why whistle blowers are insider the machine. Because you have to have a way in and out before you can get actual intel.

Separate this sub from the majority of the US. The majority of the US didn't suspect crap that Snowden has revealed. I don't think you realize just how ignorant the populace is. If you think most people knew about what he has said, you don't realize it at all.

They only realize it because the mass media is putting a spotlight on it because they were told to by the CIA.

I know you are stuck on the CIA thing, not an issue for me.

Well you probably love Anderson Cooper too.

And any security person can tell you there is precisely zero chance of sneaking in a hidden camera when you don't have security clearance

So how come I'm seeing all these videos of cows getting treated like shit?

Mass media only made it a story when other outlets pushed it.

I've not watched Anderson Cooper, but he has pretty eyes.

You see these video's for several reasons. One being they are shot by someone working undercover. I know of at least three instances of people getting hired for this purpose. Another reason is that security at a processing plant isn't even near the same level as national security. I can get into a processing plant, I can't get into FBI files. And if I could, I sure as hell couldn't get a camera through multiple types of scanners without authorization.

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How come it didn't make the other NSA leaks a story?

Wasn't as juicy a story? Weren't allowed to run it? Valid point. The media very obviously chose to run with one line and leave the other.

Obviously you're easily swayed by the CIA

I was being facetious, obviously.

If you really wanted to I'm sure you could hide a tiny camera inside your asshole and if you have high enough clearance they let you get around the asshole check.

If you have checked out of a real conversation, let me know before hand so I don't waste time thinking about what you have said.

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Fuck, man. You even slam my comments that are saying you have a valid point. Are you wanting to talk or just to fuck with me?

Don't start in with that. We both know you weren't being serious, we both know they make camera's even smaller, and we both know that you would still need the security clearance to get in far enough to get real intel.

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Oh I'm on topic. You just don't like what I'm saying and disagree with it. The topic is Snowden being a CIA agent and indirectly whether his information is trust worthy or legit.

My response has been consistently that I know he's a CIA agent, no I don't trust him, and I don't need to trust him to evaluate what he releases.

So.. yeah.. what is a good question...what the fuck are you so pissed about.

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Well, thats what I said, multiple times. Even a liar tells some truths.

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Where do you think whistle blowers come from? This logic is just baffling. The people who will actually know something to blow the whistle on are those inside with the access to it. I don't get it. You basically just discredit the only people who have the real access to give real information because they are in the best position to get the information.

Its circular logic. The whistleblower is fake because he has access to the information that would allow him to be a whistleblower. So all whistleblowers must be fake.

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As I've already posted else where, there is nothing to "trust" to begin with. Like all news and information I read anywhere from anyone, I read it and evaluate it on its own. Even if I could completely 100% verify a source was valid, that wouldn't stop false info from being planted.

I knew he was CIA already, that was let out long ago. Most people know that already. Still, information is information and bringing it to light for the general populace is a good thing. All information is a tool. You either use it or you don't. Good, bad, ugly, doesn't matter.

As for making money off it, that means nothing. Even the "purest" people get lured by the promise of money. You think because someone leaks info they aren't subject to the golden rule? He who has the gold, makes the rules? So why would agreeing to a book to make money have any bearing on his validity? Do you require some purity that doesn't exist? Everyone bows to money in this world. Having an agenda of making money doesn't make the claims true or false. It makes him human.

I bow to no one voluntarily, not Snowden, not the President, nor a God.

I'm sorry you are so angry. I've made it pretty clear that he isn't unassailable, but rather, that it doesn't matter if he is assailable or not.

So stop worrying about the man, and concentrate on whats released, evaluate what is released, and judge on its own merits.

Or discard all information if you distrust the person. Your life, your mind, do what you will. I'm not here to judge.

Well........... Then prove it!

Bring some evidence to the table of any shape or form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_snowden

It's in his first paragraph: "former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and former contractor for the National Security Agency (NSA)."

Okay, that's weird....

Is there anything else that he has mentioned during any of his speeches? I've noticed that they seem very well scripted. There's got to be some more tell tales from those.

I mean, why hasn't he revealed something damning?? The patriot act makes the spying on US citizens legal. There's gotta be something "illegal", and there's not... So none of it matters.

I see only good things which have come from these leaks. They have damaged and exposed the NSA which was once nicknamed NO SUCH AGENCY. The leaks have also opened up a discussion about the National Security State.

A healthy dose of suspicion is good, but tarnishing Snowden without some kind of proof doesn't help. Snowden worked for the CIA. He might still be working for the CIA. Neither would an ongoing relationship necessarily mean that the information isn't genuine, nor would it diminish the importance of the information.

Perhaps Snowden worked as a CIA mole. According to Fletcher Prouty CIA moles have more or less openly infiltrated all branches of the government. They can be called into action if necessary. So the relevations of Snowden might really be the result of a turf war. Snowden could have been activated to tarnish the competition. I don't believe this is the case.

Then there is also the thing, that there is a an internal war in the CIA. There are still lot of old school guys who are very concerned about the direction into which the country is heading. They hate the neocons and fight against the Full Spectrum dominance approach which is based upon the Wolfowitz defense planning guidance from 1992. They also hate the subservience of the politicians and policies towards Israel.

Scheuer, McGovern and Giraldi are some of the retired CIA guys who speak from the outside for this fraction. But you can bet, that there are also lots of like-minded CIA employees who still work within the agency and share similar goals.

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people like snowden usually like him for being the one responsible for releasing knowledge of the Gov't wrongdoing

Being interested in his leaks does no harm.

It sounds like you're trying to discredit him more than trying to "out" him as a CIA agent.

This is a Stupid post that I see posted here every week.

Are you a genuine nut or a fake nut trying to make this subreddit look nutty?

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Yup. And I'm a former President and Pope. Idiot. Since I wrote it it must be true.

Like Manning?

No, he's just a woman now in a 5x5 cell, totally living! What a life! Yum!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_snowden

It's in his first paragraph: "former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and former contractor for the National Security Agency (NSA)."

How come it didn't make the other NSA leaks a story?

Wasn't as juicy a story? Weren't allowed to run it? Valid point. The media very obviously chose to run with one line and leave the other.

Obviously you're easily swayed by the CIA

I was being facetious, obviously.

If you really wanted to I'm sure you could hide a tiny camera inside your asshole and if you have high enough clearance they let you get around the asshole check.

If you have checked out of a real conversation, let me know before hand so I don't waste time thinking about what you have said.

I'm really not sure what to say. You have this nasty tendency to simply skip over anything you don't like. Like the fact that I have multiple times said that I don't trust him and don't need to. That information is a tool in and of itself to use for good or bad.

Like I said, I knew he was CIA, he might still be CIA, I don't care because its not like I trusted him inherently to begin with, and him being CIA or not shouldn't stop you, me, or anyone from evaluating information as it comes in.

Geezus, what do you want me to say? "Fuck snowden I'll ignore everything he's says without thinking about it"?

No. They arent leakers but these opposition folks wound up dead. Michael Hastings, William Cooper just to name a few...

I do think Bradley Manning and Julian Assange are legit as well