Outsider here. I'll be honest with you; I disagree with most of the major view points here. But I subbed a while back because I enjoy getting the alternative view it provides. I find a lot of it to be really bizarre, but I also like questioning things recently and I enjoy the perspective you guys provide as I consider myself open to new ideas. I never comment and I rarely vote, either up or down. But I browse the /rising/ queue of my front page, so I see a lot of things here when they're young.

My opinion as an outsider? You guys are your own worst enemy. I'll see a title that looks interesting and open it up just to see comments bitching about downvotes and mass brigades and whatnot, or if the theme needs to be changed because a non-truther made it. And maybe that's just because I'm floating around the rising topics most of the day and don't often check in on the hot topics. But I'd like to see the intelligent discourse a group such as this could provide, but it's like threads can rarely get there without tangets about downvote bots.

I don't know what the fix is, but it seems like there's a lot of back and forth here that takes away from the topic at hand and that's disappointing. Sometimes it seems you guys are more intent on proving some sort of corruption on Reddit instead of looking at the topic itself. If there is indeed a conspiracy to take you guys off topic, I would say it's working because an outsider like me, someone who's not a "true believer" isn't very often coming back to see what made the top threads of the day.

My opinion as an outsider? You guys are your own worst enemy. I'll see a title that looks interesting and open it up just to see comments bitching about downvotes and mass brigades and whatnot

The constant barrage of complaining is off-putting. There are over 200,000 subscribers, but every thread I go into, I have to read about 5 downvotes and how it is an attack?

It has really soured me. I'll probably be banned for criticizing the subreddit now, but the constant discussion about attacks and censorship completely takes away from trying to discuss actual issues. I find stories every day. Nothing seems to be disappearing. But reading every post, you would think it is.

If the admins are banning people, I think that means it's not all in our heads.

A couple people out of 200,000 isn't an attack.

True, but out of those 200k, how many vote, either up or down? I rarely do and I lurk in this sub all the time.

He means the moderators, not the admins.

No the mods have said twice now that the admins answered them and banned people who were downvoting everything here. It's not in our heads, there are people downvoting every submission here.

Hell, there was a guy in a thread yesterday who admitted to downvoting everything in "new" and admitted to using sockpuppets in his own personal downvote brigades.

What a cop out for the shit content and comments that get posted here.

200,000 teenagers subscribed.

Moderators are far below par and mostly corrupt.

Comments here make YouTube comment sections look like Shakespeare.

People here are just generally irrational, illogical, highly defensive about their ignorance and immediately resort to a barrage of fallacies every single time someone disagrees with them.

This sub is shit. Though they did finally got rid of /u/sovereignkid as a moderator but everyone could see that coming from a mile away.

Thanks for your insightful comment. Not sure what it has to do with mine, though.

While we're on the subject, are there any good alternative "conspiracy" subs out there that I should subscribe to rather than waiting for this one to get good?

Unfortunately not that I know of. But if you find one let me know.

This sub will never be good. It's past the tipping point of no return. It's overpopulated by shit from the subscribers to the moderators to the content.

It depends on what you like but I enjoy the more fringe ideas rather than just plan criminality. I'm already not surprised by that stuff. If you like the far out stuff /r/fringediscussion is good and so is /r/WantToBelieve I'm trying to model the sub from our Conspiracy & Paranormal show The Higherside Chats after a few of these other subs but there's only 95 people in the sub and while everyone likes this type of material, they really just wait for me to post a new show. I'd definitely love more posters of conspiracy stuff over at /r/HighersideChats if you're up for it.

The admins of reddit banned a few accounts that were "blindly down voting every submission on conspiracy"

I'll probably be banned for criticizing the subreddit now,

Why do you say that? This post was 14 hours ago, are you banned?

but the constant discussion about attacks and censorship completely takes away from trying to discuss actual issues.

No shit. Why do you think they're doing it (whoever "they" is)?

A couple of people doesn't equate to an attack to try to stop discussion. Constantly harping on a couple of people does, however.

Your criticism is well crafted even if incorrect, and very respectful even if critical.

You won't be banned for being a thoughtful commentor. The people who get banned for being critical of this sub sound like "omg you're all racist loons!" And "the joos did it!".

Now the problem we are talking about which isn't apparent if you browse our front page has to do with new submissions. People have been getting multiple down votes within seconds of making a new submission. This is not only frustrating but it messes with thread rankings and makes sure that only low effort posts make it to the front page.

Personally I don't think that conspiratard is 100% at fault. We have some political groups in here that are militantly opposed to any post that isn't sucking the cock of Obama and others who are opposed to anti Republican posts. We have global warming junkies and other junkies that have strange voting habits (I suspect).

I think we have many problem voters that are problematic for different reasons.

I was actually banned though recently in a free energy thread, arguing how it breaks laws of physics, and arguing against the machine. Because the mods thought I and several others were brigading from another subreddit, everyone who disagreed in that thread was banned.

These heavy handed tactics are also something that subscribers rightly criticise about this sub, I didn't bring it up here before because I thought I would get banned again, 'for attacking the sub' or something. I was not ok with what happened despite me saying, it's cool.

I get that there are some who don't like this place but I am just a normal guy giving an alternative opinion, not a shill/brigador. like the op said, the users (and mods) are often their own worst enemy. And they need to realise that, before this sub can improve.

All of those points you've made here are fine except for the fact that it's gotten noticeably worse within the last week or two. I wonder what the reason for that is.

There has been a theme going around in SRD that this subreddit needs to be banned by reddit. Nuked by the admins. W/e.

They are drumming up support for such an action and this might be a side effect of that support. Rest assured that these people have short attention spans and things will return to normal.

It's simple: everytime a reasonable discussion might take place, a debunker and/or r/conspiratard comes up and derails it with his incessant denials, subject changes, logic fallacies, rejecting logic based on source labeling (ad-hominem), empty contradiction and the best of all degrading the subject after empty rebutals just to dismiss it as "irrelevant" "it means nothing anyways" when proved wrong.

This has been a constant and it has shaped most of its users to deal with anyone that disagrees with them in the same way because we are just beyond tired of debunkers and r/conspiratards derailments.

The only people I see derailing threads are people who claim threads are being derailed. More comments are about "OMG we are being targeted" than about the content itself, and it all devolves into a shitfest of accusations.

Bingo.

wearethewolves -2 points 1 day ago. Don't talk about shills. Don't identify their behavior. Just let them do their thing, and DO NOT identify them publicly as shills. Because....oh yeah, it really hurts your credibility.

That's interesting. Have a link or screenshot to where I said that? Pretty easy to post text and claim someone said something.

iamagod_ -15 points 2 hours ago. The fact is, I absolutely support the admins removing all Sandy Hook and Fort Hood content that points towards a government conspiracy. Anyone who believes in that garbage deserves whatever hurt they get.

Or should I just link to your rule-breaking comments?

Paraphrasing your comment. Not trying to pull a fast one on anybody. Nor would it, since the source comment is unedited, and anyone with an ounce of thought can also clearly see this. Are your feelings hurt? Is that why?

Quoting your 'eye for an eye' method of dealing with life for posterity. All the while, threatening to tell the adults on me. Class act.

wearethewolves [score hidden] 9 minutes ago That's interesting. Have a link or screenshot to where I said that? Pretty easy to post text and claim someone said something. iamagod_ -15 points 2 hours ago. The fact is, I absolutely support the admins removing all Sandy Hook and Fort Hood content that points towards a government conspiracy. Anyone who believes in that garbage deserves whatever hurt they get. Or should I just link to your rule-breaking comments?

Man, you're a really aggressive stalker. Keep it up.

Yes, replying to your idiotic comment is now known as stalking. As you can see from your vote tally, the people do not appreciate your parroting of the government issued conspiracy theory lies as fact. Of we wanted that, we would simply turn on the TV.

I will ask you calmly and only once: quit stalking and harassing me.

I'll explain this to you simply and clearly once again. Replying to you in this thread. Only in this thread. Challenging you on your highly flawed take on the events. Calling you our when you speak lies. None of these things could possible be construed as "stalking" or "harrasment."

It's sad to watch the distractors cry when they horribly botch their stated objective. When they are not able to trust, turn, or distract from the damaging conversations at hand. Keep trying though. You've got to work hard. Get all your facts down. And be able to lay them down clearly and concisely, if you want to sway public opinion. I can tell you with certainty that playing the pathetic 'woe is me' victim card will NOT work.

i agree with you

Agreeing with your own posts, I see. Surprise!

i agree with you

And -15? You're really going to have to pull in your "friends" to make that happen.

Never seen the guy before, downvoting you for being crazy. Also creepy as hell.

The "friends" that I spoke of two posts above come running to support the lies and disinfo of their peers. How's the JIDF doing again, /u/IThinkIThinkTooMuch? Up to the exact same bullshit, it appears. However far less effective that they've ever been.

As mentioned earlier, we see clearly through you fools. Your insults and blatant vote rigging cast your group in a very negative light. You're losing not only the battle, the overall war on truth as well.

Go get help.

Disinfo at its finest. As mentioned previouslyx you morons may want to look into finding a way to make your vote rigging a little less obvious. I'll go get some help, while continuing to expose the bullshit that has infested our sub. Clearly demonstrating the damage our open discussions cause.

And as mentioned previously, the fact that such escalated methods are now being employed, you are losing ground far greater than ever before.

You are fucking delusional haha

Holy crap, did you just accuse me of being part of the JIDF? Achievement unlocked! I'm a fairly secular reform Jew from the midwest, so this is news to me, but wow, this is actually the highlight of my internet life. Creepy and insane you may be, but you just made my day, you adorable little nutcase. Thanks so much!

Supporting the criminal state of Israel makes you incredibly easy to spot.

Well, shoot, there goes my cover. Seriously, though, you're comedy gold.

Yes, comedy gold in your support of the criminal state of Israel.

You already said that.

I have grown tired of the derailments. In the past I have tried keeping it up with the waste of time and eventually got exausted and end up with insults and degrading replies as a child, even to this day I repeat this in my weakest moments. I decided to leave the sub until the infestation was reduced. I return and it starts growing again constantly so I have decided to refuse arguing with r/conspiratard members all at once but I haven't done the same for debunkers, for now.

Here you can have the best example possible as to how much those people are despicable to the point of going back on their own word just to shit on the person's face.

Au_Is_Heavy makes the logic fallacy of using lack of imagination as means of rebutal, asks that I explain it better to him in which I request that I will only waste the time with it if he accepts the fact that fires could not have done what happened to WTC7 and he proceeds with deception which I notice right away and demand that he writes his own words with no tricks, he still ignores it one more time before writing the statement in quotes, I ask him to lose the quotation marks and warn him for the last time, he finally does it as I asked. I then write what I said I would and after I write it, he changes his reply and adds a ? at the end of the sentence so that he could say he never admitted it. Forgets that I had the comment quoted without the question mark.

Despite all of his disgusting dishonesty and attempt at not admitting in the end, he still went back on his word 2 times: "Alright" and "Done"

This is the best example of how disgusting Debunkers can be.

You chewed him out because he didn't exactly agree with your position that "Fires could not have caused obliteration of those buildings, only demolition can, period." for which you provided not one tiny bit of evidence.

The problem with "truthers" is that there is no known explosives that could have been smuggled into the buildings for a controlled detonation because it would require MANY TONS of explosives. You just can't hide that. This means that either everyone in all the buildings was in on it (ridiculous), a previously unknown explosive that's vastly more powerful than anything known (speculative), or science fiction nonsense like earthquake machines (stupid).

"False flag" is at least worth discussion because that's about what's going on inside the minds of the hijackers, and it's vastly more likely that investigators didn't know exactly what was in their heads. There was significant speculation about their identity as well. "The Israelis were behind 9/11" strikes me as more plausible than earthquake machines.

I also wonder why there is more speculation about 9/11, which was on video, as opposed to the completely unsolved anthrax attacks that followed 9/11 and led to mass hysteria and the Patriot Act. Given that the anthrax was apparently traced to the US military, this at least appeared to be a "false flag" operation of some kind.

It's fun how people like you rest the fact that it couldnt happen on fantasy. It wouldn't have been tons of explosives. As well, the calculations have been completed already, and a 20 man team could have easily rigged all core columns.

Now what you believers of the official government issued conspiracy theory is that if what they claimed was true, every single support in both towers would have had to have failed catastrophically at EVERY SINGLE POINT, AT THE EXACT SAME TIME. I don't know why you haven't yet picked up on this, but life doesn't work like that, I'm afraid. Do you know what does though? As we've stated all along, the fantasy of a staged event. Hollywood.

You should try and understand that the physics of buildings falling isn't possible for a random person. Its ridiculously complicated so try not to make claims about what should have happened.

Notice I didn't mention what I believe to have happened myself.

No, it's not complicated. And we can definitely leave it to the professionals. About 3000+ of them. http://AE911Truth.org

We witnessed a controlled demolition three times that's day.

Yes it is... extremely complicated. It's not as simple as you think dude. The buildings are complex structures that you don't understand completely. Not just beams and floors. And a lot of those guys aren't even remotely in the correct field to have any more say in the matter than a layman.

I have hundreds of prior controlled demolitions that show how a building reacts to planted exlosive charges. I also have dozens of collapsed buildings. Exactly zero exhibit actions seen in other building collapses.

Claiming that a person is incapable of understanding the obvious use of conventional explosives in the staged 9/11 event is incredibly foolish. A pathetic attempt at supposting another government lie. Sad.

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you a demolition expert? And you don't know what my beliefs are about that day so don't pretend to. Im just pointing out a few things that are obvious to the general public. One being you can't pretend to be an expert or speak for them.

I, as well as you, are fully capible of researching the obviously staged event. You, for some foolish reason, can only stand to prop up the fictional government issued cospiracy theory (shill like behavior?). All thr while, claiming this "highly complex" collapse cannot be understood by simple investigation and research. A degree now is required, in your mind. Those who wish to know the truth are easily able to find it. It requires work. It does not require a masters degree in engineering.

I highly suggest you do the smart thing, and look to the words of the lead architect of tye complex. Look into the protections that were over-engineered and built into the skyscrapers.

When you have completed this, try to find one other time in history where a building collapse leaves pulverized dust. One where the entire building comes down. As though ALL key support structures were removed at the EXACT same time. Frankly, either perfect "collapse" is not possible without the removal of ALL supports. With some deep investigation, you will find that the inner core, which was not affected by the impacts of the planes, was able to keep both towers standing by itself.

Another huge piece is dealing with the kerosine accelerant. Of which, 95%.burned up in the massive fireball of impact. Not leaving enough fuel to cook the steel to temperatures hot enough to partially weaken the steel.

It wouldn't have been tons of explosives.

Yes it would. I don't know a lot about demolition, but I've talked to several demo and pyro people about this and they said many tons. It would take several 18-wheelers just to transport the explosives.

a 20 man team could have easily rigged all core columns.

A single person could do it all given enough time. Could 20 men do it all in less than 12 hours (ignoring that people worked in the WTC at night)? No, not based on the volume of explosives.

And this would be impossible to hide. I don't know how the workers were supposed to miss tons of ampho or plastic explosive and wires strung everywhere. Again, those same demo people told me this would be completely impossible to conceal.

If the WTC was mined with explosives, the thousands of people inside the buildings absolutely HAD to know about it and willingly sacrificed their lives. And the survivors, first responders, many New Yorkers that worked nearby, etc. have all conspired together (10,000+ people) to keep the secret for 14 years.

As we've stated all along, the fantasy of a staged event. Hollywood.

Just like the moon landings, right?

You do realize that both towers were practically empty. As well, both had very large periods or power down in the days leading up to the staged event. Your logic does not discount any of the pre planted explosives theory.

You do realize that both towers were practically empty.

Yet thousands of people died.

As well, both had very large periods or power down in the days leading up to the staged event.

The problem isn't the time needed to install the explosives, but the fact that they are impossible to conceal. One person in the building for a few minutes would likely detect the explosives, let alone thousands of workers.

How many were officers and firemen? How many of those deaths are not supported by the SSDI?

The power outages and work performed in the towers in the EXACT areas of impact was more than enough time. This is why WTC7 was "pulled" when the plan didn't work as they expected. To not leave any explosives or evidence, it was taken down as well. The smoking gun in all of this is the collapse that goes against all known physics as well as history.

Repeating things doesn't change them.

You explanation doesn't work without resorting to science fiction, either invisible explosives or earthquake machines. You might say "burning jet fuel" is sci-fi, but even you agree that it was at least on-site.

And if "they" really do have invisible explosives and earthquake machines then only a fool wouldn't want to join "them" as they have power unto gods.

I really wish you were right because invisible explosives and earthquake machines are pretty cool.

Do not waste time with this debunker, he doesn't care at all about what you say, he will ignore everything and continue throwing his blind belief.

Just as an example of how biased he is, in his next reply he continues insisting that explosives are impossible to conceal and that one person in the building for 30 seconds would detect the explosives.

This is not the mind of a person interested in having reasonable discussions, this is the mind like a child that has his ears covered and spits the nonsense fantasies that he believes to be possible without a shred of common sense. It's borderline pathetic.

I'm picking up on this. Thank you. He has been labeled "govt shill"

The problem with "truthers" is that there is no known explosives that could have been smuggled into the buildings for a controlled detonation because it would require MANY TONS of explosives. You just can't hide that. This means that either everyone in all the buildings was in on it (ridiculous), a previously unknown explosive that's vastly more powerful than anything known (speculative), or science fiction nonsense like earthquake machines (stupid).

You start your attack using the same logic fallacy the user I mentioned before used. Your biased imagination is not evidence for rebutal, it is just a biased imagination.

If that logic had any merit then you wouldn't even dare to disagree with us when we said years ago that it is impossible for any tall building to globally collapse due to office fires and it is also impossible for it to achieve free-fall speeds, especially since we have the entire history of mankind proving this. But after 13 years we know pretty well how much you guys have no problem in believing in impossible scenarios being possible so why do you keep using that logic to refute our arguments is beyond my comprehension.

All of this still doesn't gives him the right to be a liar and try to weasel out of what he agreed to do by trying to deceive me with empty vague words. One of the few things that show how despicable a person is is to go back in his own word multiple times just so he won't agree with someone through deception and cheating.

"False flag" is at least worth discussion because that's about what's going on inside the minds of the hijackers, and it's vastly more likely that investigators didn't know exactly what was in their heads. There was significant speculation about their identity as well. "The Israelis were behind 9/11" strikes me as more plausible than earthquake machines.

The fact that the majority of the US still to this day thinks the war against Afghanistan was because the 9/11 terrorists were from Afghanistan while in fact none of the terrorists where from there and instead most from Saudi Arabia strongly suggests the US intentions of pushing to a war by any means necessary.

I also wonder why there is more speculation about 9/11, which was on video, as opposed to the completely unsolved anthrax attacks that followed 9/11 and led to mass hysteria and the Patriot Act. Given that the anthrax was apparently traced to the US military, this at least appeared to be a "false flag" operation of some kind.

Because 9/11 was the start of everything, once you take that one down all of the rest crumbles. The Iraq 100 000 deaths was all based on a lie, publicly admitted lie about them having nukes and the public turned a blind eye to this horrendous bloodshed caused by their military war thirst. If something has horrendus as that was exposed and still almost no one cares about it, trying to do the same to the rest would meet the same result. This is why the 9/11 is the most focused, at least IMO.

If you have a genuine interest in this discussion I suggest that you read more about it here.

Your biased imagination is not evidence for rebutal, it is just a biased imagination.

"Lack of imagination" is not a logical fallacy. Please show a citation for that claim.

Investigation is supposed to be about looking at what happened as opposed to imaginary speculation. We see a building on fire that collapses. With no other evidence the logical conclusion is that the fire caused the collapse.

Leaping to science-fiction explanations like earthquake machines or alien spaceships with absolutely no evidence whatsoever is neither logical or reasonable.

But after 13 years we know pretty well how much you guys have

After 13 years the "truthers" haven't produced one iota of evidence that the WTC complex buildings were destroyed by anything other an aircraft impact. You don't just get to "ask questions" and "poke holes in the official story". 13 years in you had better have a theory on what you think actually happened.

With JFK we have the "3 shooters theory", what have you got?

strongly suggests the US intentions of pushing to a war by any means necessary.

That is NOT evidence that the WTC was secretly mined with explosives or destroyed with an earthquake machine. This is the claim (that truthers refuse to state explicitly) that I'm responding to.

A "false flag" attack where the USA or Israel hired the hijackers? Completely possible, even plausible. Bush covering up senior Saudi involvement? Possible, even likely.

It's the ridiculous invisible explosives or earthquake machine bullshit I can't swallow. And if "the government" really has these things, they're literally gods and there is nothing that can be done to oppose them anyway.

Yes, the same could be said regarding the testing for explosive residue in the wreckage. But alas, they never did that. Can you tell me logically why they didn't spend 30 seconds and $80 on an explosives field test that every fire dept has?

NIST and the UL were 100% unsuccessful in attempting to recreate their ridiculous theory of collapse. They have not to date proven that simple unaccelerated fire fell all three towers that fateful day. They have refused to, under grounds of laughable "national security." Any more ridiculous attempts at telling us how our eyes were all wrong in seeing the clear results of conventional explosives in WTC 1, 2, and 7? Give it an honest go. I challenge you to make even a single point. To date, in this thread, a goal you've sadly been unable to do.

Can you tell me logically why they didn't spend 30 seconds and $80 on an explosives field test that every fire dept has?

Why didn't the "truthers" did this? They don't need access to the "wreckage". If the planes were filled with plastic explosive there should be residue spread over several city blocks.

Any more ridiculous attempts at telling us how our eyes were all wrong in seeing the clear results of conventional explosives in WTC 1, 2, and 7? Give it an honest go.

I'm going to hold you to the phrase "conventional explosives". That means you have ruled out earthquake machines and magical explosives.

This means that many tons of explosives were required to take down these buildings.

How did the explosives get into the buildings? Were the planes filled with explosives? Even if they were, that doesn't explain the "truther" claim what WTC7 was a "controlled detonation".

This means that tons of explosives must have been inside WTC7. How were these explosives secretly moved into the buildings?

What is YOUR theory? How did the explosives get into the buildings? Put up or shut up.

I challenge you to make even a single point.

Here's my point, which has been repeated several times:

"Truthers" like to hint or "sort of" claim that the WTC buildings were secretly mined with explosives or destroyed with earthquake machines. This is ridiculous and the "truthers" know it is, so they back away from the claim the moment this pointed out and instead they're "just asking questions".

And as you clearly stated, the "truthers" did not have access to the pulverized rubble. The crime scene was illegally shipped off in a rush, prior to any possible independent and trustworthy investigation.

If they wanted to find the truth, the Commission would have had the power to subpoena. A standard practice purposefully avoided with the kangaroo commission.

The crime scene was illegally shipped off in a rush

The "crime scene" as in "several city blocks"? With the amount of explosives involved, residue should have been detectable a great distance from the WTC.

No one had free access to the pulverized dust. Of the pieces that were independently tested, nanothermite was found.

NIST did NOT test for explosives. Why is that?

I'd like to stop discussing the details and try to figure out exactly why you want this to be true.

The proposed conspiracy theory promotes a secret government that appears to be incompetent and corrupt, but it actually brilliant, talented, and efficient and has chosen to use almost all of that for secret manipulation for some mysterious end.

This view seems depressing to me, since it's presumed that everyone is really just a slave to "them". And "they" are so incredibly powerful (moreso than Stalin or any real-world dictator) that there isn't one iota of hope of stopping, disrupting, or having any affect on their plans.

As I've said previously, if you're correct than literally the only options are joining the conspiracy or painful death. Are you trying to get the attention of "their" recruiters or something?

After 13 years the "truthers" haven't produced one iota of evidence that the WTC complex buildings were destroyed by anything other an aircraft impact. You don't just get to "ask questions" and "poke holes in the official story". 13 years in you had better have a theory on what you think actually happened.

Thermite/thermate particles found in the dust, to this day no one has even tested the debris of actual collapses and building fires to show that the same particles were common.

Iron spheres indicate the present of steel melting fires that no office fires can achieve, to this day no one has shown the same spheres present in any other fire and/or building collapse.

A single man did more testing than NIST did in the entire time they took to build their report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YuDKUCALtU and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_pY0WLg9Cc

The NIST report has been corrected multiple times because of the independent researchers that the debunkers often label as "crazy lunatics", for example:

David Chandler's free-fall correction on the NIST report.

Ae911truth's missing and wrong structure values correction on the NIST report.

And even after all of this they still refuse to ammend the other serious mistakes that were pointed out clearly by the independent researchers, for example:

The available evidence shows that the fire responsible for the collapse initiation was already extinct long before and as such NIST did not have anything that could justify the fire they used for their simulation.

This is all just one fraction of the immense problems with the official version. It's not that we haven't produced an iota of evidence, it's that you guys refuse to see that we produced far more than NIST ever did to backup their impossible claims.

Investigation is supposed to be about looking at what happened as opposed to imaginary speculation. We see a building on fire that collapses. With no other evidence the logical conclusion is that the fire caused the collapse.

I don't know how more clearly I can tell you this, that logic is the logic of someone that has a serious lack of knowledge and assumes that correlation = causation.

I'll do it this way: The buildings collapsed because firemen entered the buildings.

Now since it never happened before and you cannot prove it to be false, my dumb logic is as valid as yours and we get stuck at personal interpertations of the same event using assumptions over assumptions while ignoring the history as an important indicator of such things being impossible.

Leaping to science-fiction explanations like earthquake machines or alien spaceships with absolutely no evidence whatsoever is neither logical or reasonable.

This is the second time you talk about this kind of subject without me ever mentioning anything like it. Why do you feel the need to mention these can only be justified as means to strengthen your argument by using unnecessary extremes as means to ridicule my side, unless I am wrong and you will admit to have been incorrect in doing so.

Also, you mention "absolutely no evidence whatsoever is neither logical or reasonable". Thank you, this is what truthers have been saying about the NIST report for years since they also made multiple impossible claims without absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Sadly you debunkers only see this argument fit for when it is convenient for you because when we use it then it becomes meaningless. Like practically every debunker does.

Thermite/thermate particles found in the dust,

Thermite is powdered iron. It's indistinguishable from iron or steel used in the building construction.

And please explain how you destroy an office building with thermite, something that has never happened in the history of demolition. And again, how did the office workers miss tons of explosives and wires strung everywhere?

I'll do it this way: The buildings collapsed because firemen entered the buildings.

So are you seriously trying to claim that when the firemen entered the buildings, magical explosive waves emanated from their bodies that destroyed the buildings? I don't think so.

No, what you're just implying, because you don't have an iota of evidence, is that the buildings were under observation by the conspirators who remote-detonated the explosives hidden inside when they saw firemen entering.

I have no idea why the "truthers" insist on sticking to this "magic explosives" nonsense when other conspiracies are vastly more likely. Even if you want to go "false flag" by the US government, you don't need magical explosives. You don't even need Islamic militants, the hijackers could have been disguised. They didn't even really need to be disguised, because the only way we know their identities is because the government just declared it, they could have been white neo-Nazis for all we know.

Now you might argue that wouldn't have destroyed the buildings, but completely destroying the buildings was irrelevant. Little damage was done to the Pentagon and the White House plane didn't even hit. The point was the attack.

I can't begin to see why the US would do all of this secret explosives nonsense when it's so much easier and cheaper to do it this way. US hires neo-Nazis to fly planes into buildings: Handful of agents to run the Nazis, a handful of agents to fake the ids of the hijackers. In theory, you could do this with as little as 10 people and a very low budget.

Thermite is powdered iron. It's indistinguishable from iron or steel used in the building construction.

Lie.

"Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition of metal powder, fuel and metal oxide." and "Thermites have diverse compositions. Fuels include aluminium, magnesium, titanium, zinc, silicon, and boron."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Further more, actual red chips of unburned thermite/thermate were found, these are not the combustion result:

"We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center."

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.htm

And please explain how you destroy an office building with thermite, something that has never happened in the history of demolition. And again, how did the office workers miss tons of explosives and wires strung everywhere?

This is a derailment argument (strawmen), stick with the facts and evidence and cease the attempt of demanding my assumptions that will be rejected by any means.

Like I said before: "Thermite/thermate particles found in the dust, to this day no one has even tested the debris of actual collapses and building fires to show that the same particles were common."

So are you seriously trying to claim that when the firemen entered the buildings, magical explosive waves emanated from their bodies that destroyed the buildings? I don't think so.

Again, you are claiming something that never happened before and which I say to be impossible, I did the same just now as an example to show you how ignorant it is to ignore the testament of history. If you argue with me on this then you will be doing the exact same thing to your claim. The fact that you refuse to see this just shows how biased you are in this subject.

I have no idea why the "truthers" insist on sticking to this "magic explosives" nonsense when other conspiracies are vastly more likely. Even if you want to go "false flag" by the US government, you don't need magical explosives. You don't even need Islamic militants, the hijackers could have been disguised. They didn't even really need to be disguised, because the only way we know their identities is because the government just declared it, they could have been white neo-Nazis for all we know.

This is the third time you are using ridicule in your arguments, I haven't given you any reasons to do so. This is my last warning, either correct your unwarranted ridicule tone or this conversation ends here.

Now you might argue that wouldn't have destroyed the buildings, but completely destroying the buildings was irrelevant. Little damage was done to the Pentagon and the White House plane didn't even hit. The point was the attack.

The impact of the twin towers crushing the thousands of souls in it were the strongest aspect of that attack that made the population approve the war and the subsequent ones, along with the "heroic" symbol that was Flight 93. Deny this and you will be denying the terrorism excuse being used constantly for waging wars for the past 13 years.

I can't begin to see why the US would do all of this secret explosives nonsense when it's so much easier and cheaper to do it this way. US hires neo-Nazis to fly planes into buildings: Handful of agents to run the Nazis, a handful of agents to fake the ids of the hijackers. In theory, you could do this with as little as 10 people and a very low budget.

Read operation Northwoods and you can stop imagining how impossible it would be for the US to stage false flags such as 911 in order to push for another endless war cycle.

Lie.

From the wiki article you cited: "Red iron(III) oxide (Fe2O3, commonly known as rust) is the most common iron oxide used in thermite. ... All of these examples use aluminium as the reactive metal." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

So, technically, powdered iron oxide and aluminium. Doesn't contradict my point that it's not distinguishable as "explosive residue".

This is a derailment argument (strawmen)

How is this a "strawman"? I'm directly addressing your evidence that thermite residue was found in the building. I'm not even questioning the claim, but assuming that it was found.

I guess the "derailment argument" is my questioning how the office workers missed large quantities of thermite in the building. It also burns slowly and is brighter than the sun. Somehow you don't consider the logistics of how an explosive can be used to be remotely relevant to whether it was used. You can't use TNT underwater, so you assume that any underwater explosion is TNT.

Again, you are claiming something that never happened before and which I say to be impossible,

Here's what I said 3 days ago that you ignored:

"After 13 years the "truthers" haven't produced one iota of evidence that the WTC complex buildings were destroyed by anything other an aircraft impact. You don't just get to "ask questions" and "poke holes in the official story". 13 years in you had better have a theory on what you think actually happened."

Since you outright refuse to present anything, I'm going to simply declare that your theory is that explosives were secretly installed in the buildings. This is logistically impossible.

So, technically, powdered iron oxide and aluminium. Doesn't contradict my point that it's not distinguishable as "explosive residue".

First you stated "Thermite is powdered iron.", not "Thermite is mostly powdered iron".

Second, you completely ignored the fact that red chips of unburned thermite were found on the WTC dust.

How is this a "strawman"? I'm directly addressing your evidence that thermite residue was found in the building. I'm not even questioning the claim, but assuming that it was found.

You should pay more attention to what you write, especially the part in bold:

And please explain how you destroy an office building with thermite, something that has never happened in the history of demolition. And again, how did the office workers miss tons of explosives and wires strung everywhere?

Here's what I said 3 days ago that you ignored:

I did not, I directly linked and explained evidence that proved the presence of a material known and already proven to cut steel beams. If you are set to ignore what I present then this discussion is over.

Since you outright refuse to present anything, I'm going to simply declare that your theory is that explosives were secretly installed in the buildings. This is logistically impossible.

Again, logic fallacy resulting of a biased imagination and even accuse me of not presenting anything. It's not impossible to rig a building under the cover of a maintenance and/or floor upgrade team. What it is impossible is to violate the laws of physics and having 3 tall steel-framed buildings suffer total collapse for the first *and only time in the entire history of mankind, one simply because of small office fires and at free-fall speeds.

Biased lack of imagination is not a rebutal argument, it is simply evidence of a person set to not listen to anything at all costs and waste the time of others: aka debunkers.

This conversation proved to be another waste of time with a debunker which consistently ignored the evidence and facts brought forth, twisted his own words to fit his claims and tried to pursuit strawman arguments multiple times. For these reasons and for you not even correct your unwarranted ridicule tone as I asked before multiple times, this conversation is over.

EDIT: To prove even more how useless it is to have a discussion with you, you are the kind of person that states with clear conscience that it is impossible to conceal explosives and that a anyone inside the building for 30 seconds would detect the explosives when in fact there has been already a bomb concealed in WTC that no one detected until it exploded, let alone in 30s. And your own words copied and linked here before you try to change them:

rtechie1 [score hidden] 1 minute ago

You do realize that both towers were practically empty.

Yet thousands of people died.

As well, both had very large periods or power down in the days leading up to the staged event.

The problem isn't the time needed to install the explosives, but the fact that they are impossible to conceal. One person in the building for 30 seconds would detect the explosives.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/224rkc/without_your_support_our_community_dies/cgnjhjo

For these reasons and for you not even correct your unwarranted ridicule tone as I asked before multiple times, this conversation is over.

Someone with the handle "GayUnicorn6969" is worried about being ridiculed?

This conversation proved to be another waste of time with a debunker which consistently ignored the evidence and facts brought forth, twisted his own words to fit his claims and tried to pursuit strawman arguments multiple times. For these reasons and for you not even correct your unwarranted ridicule tone as I asked before multiple times, this conversation is over.

The beauty of fact. He can't counter any of it.

An absolutely pathetic attempt by rtechie1. You're wasting your time arguing with fools. A true waste of time. As with the other disinformer you were speaking with, this guy is behaving exactly the same. "They couldn't have carried in all of the explosives. It souls have been 10 million pounds.of TNT. No one can carry that much. Someone would have talked. They are incompetent, and couldn't have pulled this off. Do not blame evil people for their malice, when you can incorrectly label it as an accident or error. They are evil everywhere else in life, but they wouldn't be this evil." I can hear his sniveling high pitched voice say this word for word. With all of it being 100% incorrect.

I still laugh at how these bafoons are still attempting to use the truther term as derogatory, when there is nothing more noble than seeking and compiling facts and truth. The adversaries of truth are fighting an uphill battle, and they are losing. They want us to believe they are stronger than they really are. They want us to think that our beliefs are fringe, when in fact we are the majority now. Truth is waking up countless people.

I read your entire post in a sniveling, high pitched voice.

Great work pulling that directly from my post you replied to. When you come up with insults of your own, then your trash might just he worth debating.

It would he nice if these fools actually tried. They can't debate FACT, so they do stupid shit like this to get a rise or distract from the damaging (to them) conversations that we have here. The truth apparently is quite damaging to their position.

Also, they could try a little harder to make the vote manipulation even just slightly less obvious. When you see an abnormally low vote count on non insult posts, you can be relatively sure of its accuracy. So much effort in an attempt to silence the open discussion of truth. The topics they attack with ferocity is quite telling.

Thanks, I try. For the record, this is the only thing I've posted in this entire thread. :)

Hahaha that exchange is great and very telling. I try to keep my questions simple, specific, and direct - "debunkers" don't seem to like ones like that most of the time.

Of they can't hide their lies in a wall of text, discouraging the average simpleton from even reading past the first sentence, what else can they do. That exchange was truly pathetic. You can tell he doesn't even believe what he's saying himself. It was clearly a staged event. Clearly.

Which is no different than most discussions on the internet ... Why not just engage them until the conversation is no longer at an intelligent level and then downvote troll replies, ignore it and not feed into the cycle?

Because that's another derailment tactic. The intelligent commentary gets buried below pages of distracting banter with shills.

I look at it differently. If you go to /r/politics and try to post something "transparent" about the Obama administration, it will get removed. Similar to Tesla in /r/technology. Stuff doesn't get deleted so much here, and what does is logged in /r/uncensorship. So you get more noise here, but also a lot more transparency. Which is more like the real world.

Viewing submissions and comments by new or controversial allows you to step over the noise more easily.

Also one think i think we need to realize is that their down-vote bots and what not are probably no where near as strong and plentiful as they could be, and i think this is intentional. If they were to use their full capabilities on down-voting i think it would be insanely obvious. So instead i suspect that they have been using a lot more of their resources in up-voting certain comments and submissions. It would be far less suspicious and most people would hardly notice.

dont forget the pro's

everytime a reasonable discussion might take place, a debunker and/or r/conspiratard comes up and derails it

Well that's pretty much entirely bullshit. If someone is making an attempt to debunk, then it is by definition relevant to the conversation, considering the purpose of this subreddit.

incessant denials, subject changes, logic fallacies, rejecting logic based on source labeling (ad-hominem), empty contradiction and the best of all degrading the subject after empty rebutals just to dismiss it as "irrelevant" "it means nothing anyways" when proved wrong.

All things you yourself are known to do. Don't generalize and create strawmen just to excuse your poor behavior and that of the community.

This guy does exactly everything I just mentioned before.

I state:

a debunker or r/conspiratard comes up and derails it

and he attacks it as if it was "someone attempting to debunk" instead of "debunker derailing the discussion" which was what I said. 2 completely different things, still changes my words anyway.

Then accuses me of doing everything I mentioned, completely ignores the part where I clearly state:

This has been a constant and it has shaped most of its users to deal with anyone that disagrees with them in the same way because we are just beyond tired of debunkers and r/conspiratards derailments.

khamul787 is the best example of a debunker that derails discussions and in his reply he proves just that.

"debunker derailing the discussion

Except that you claim this is what they're doing in virtually every conversation you have with them, even when you're completely wrong.

Then accuses me of doing everything I mentioned, completely ignores the part where I clearly state:

Because you do.

This has been a constant and it has shaped most of its users to deal with anyone that disagrees with them in the same way because we are just beyond tired of debunkers and r/conspiratards derailments.

Is also nonsense, and an excuse for poor behavior.

khamul787 is the best example of a debunker that derails discussions and in his reply he proves just that.

In every conversation we've ever had, you've avoided questions and ignored what I've said. Then you devolve into a childish fit.

You just further proved his point. He was correct that you inaccurately described what he said. Someone debunking with facts is completely different from someone using debate fallacies to destroy the conversation all together. Which you have just tried to do.

everytime a reasonable discussion might take place, a debunker and/or r/conspiratard comes up and derails it...

Nope. He claim it happens every time, which is nonsense.

Someone debunking with facts is completely different from someone using debate fallacies to destroy the conversation all together.

You would be right, except that he claims it happens every time, which is a false generalization. In fact, it happens very rarely. Often debunking is done with facts, but that is not what is represented in his comment.

He did over dramatize with that statement but you were also flipping his worlds to change the meaning of what he said. And this isn't a rare situation. Most all threads has some troll trying to mess it all up.

I do see what you mean. I suppose I was, in a sense, arguing the person there rather than the statement. He's quite infamous for claiming anything people say to disagree with him is derailing a topic, regardless of relevance. So you are right.

Rational responses always welcome. I have ran into this before myself. If I have come to dislike a person because of past experiences then having a bias is easy to overlook. I purposefully throw around different personalities online just to learn about the psychological effects of conversation through different lenses. Just a thought that we should all base our serious discussions on nothing but facts because the personalities we dislike could literally be anyone / anything.

Infamous where? Among who?

Infamous where? Among who?

He has a very creative imagination, if accusing me of being infamous makes him happy then let's leave him with his happiness.

Well, you're pretty infamous with anyone on the other side of the fence. but hey.

Sure thing, buddy, whatever makes you happy.

Good try, but you're wrong.

What a thoughtful post.

Except that you claim this is what they're doing in virtually every conversation you have with them, even when you're completely wrong.

Lie. I didn't claim such thing, I clearly stated "a" not "every single".

Is also nonsense, and an excuse for poor behavior.

Reject personal statement and label it.

In every conversation we've ever had, you've avoided questions and ignored what I've said. Then you devolve into a childish fit.

Lie. Let's take a look at who the child and derailing debunker is:

Khamul787 accuses me of spreading disinfo:

I've been over this before with you, mate. Only the core, and only briefly. Stop spreading disinfo; you're only making yourself look bad.

I prove to him that this is not true:

The entire visible 18 stories. The NIST time is a fraud, period.

Use your brain at least once, mate, you're only making yourself look bad.

source

I write an assumption in which I clearly state it and ask that people don't throw questionaires over my opinion, khamul787 completely ignores my request while calling me an ass and starts his questionaire anyway, gets angry because I point out his lack of respect towards my request.

source

I provide clear and direct evidence as to why NIST produced a fraudulent research, he shifts the subject, makes false claims about the times being discussed, does not correct his mistake and continues on a rampant of ignoring the evidence and clear material explaining the first statement.

source

Eventually derails the entire discussion by arguments of denial and eventually degrades and declares the importance of what was being discussed in the first place to be meaningless:

Not to mention, on top of all your nonsense, it doesn't matter anyway,

source

I explain why the bright flashes cannot be sun reflections caused by broken glass shards, he denies it and labels my claim "nonsense".

source

I request for evidence of his claims regarding the temperatures reached in the north tower, he links a statement where it mentions the claim of NIST's pockets of fire. Proceeds with demanding evidence for my claim when he clearly did not provide any for his in which I explain that he does not have the right to demand anything from me if he cannot provide evidence for his claims.

source

In which I reserve the right to end the discussion and khamul787 decides to consider in his mind to be another conceded argument in which he "scores" 5-0.

source

I use him as example of strawmen argumentation, he proceeds with attacking with personal imagined scenarios in which I run from his discussions because I am "losing".

source

Everyone can see for themselves the perfect example of what I described before, I have nothing else to say.

I prove to him that this is not true:

Nope. The evidence (such as the collapse of the penthouse into the building) clearly shows that the core of the building began its collapse long before the outer shell.

I write an assumption in which I clearly state it and ask that people don't throw questionaires over my opinion, khamul787 completely ignores my request while calling me an ass and starts his questionaire anyway, gets angry because I point out his lack of respect towards my request.

You posted it on a public forum designed for conversation. I have no obligation to support your request.

I provide clear and direct evidence as to why NIST produced a fraudulent research, he shifts the subject, makes false claims about the times being discussed, does not correct his mistake and continues on a rampant of ignoring the evidence and clear material explaining the first statement.

That's funny. I corrected my mistake here, and then provided proof immediately after.

Eventually derails the entire discussion by arguments of denial and eventually degrades and declares the importance of what was being discussed in the first place to be meaningless:

It was, because (and I stated this) it proves nothing. Freefall was already factored in to the building's collapse, and there is no evidence of a demolition. Proving it was marginally longer is irrelevant to the situation as a whole.

I request for evidence of his claims regarding the temperatures reached in the north tower, he links a statement where it mentions the claim of NIST's pockets of fire. Proceeds with demanding evidence for my claim when he clearly did not provide any for his in which I explain that he does not have the right to demand anything from me if he cannot provide evidence for his claims.

I said this like a dozen times. I shall emphasize here again, because you do not understand you still have to provide evidence whether I do or not. And AGAIN, you yourself admitted this was a troll thread that was factually incorrect at its very base. But no, you don't have to provide evidence for your OP, that would be ridiculous.

In which I reserve the right to end the discussion and khamul787 decides to consider in his mind to be another conceded argument in which he "scores" 5-0.

It was the 5th time you ran away from an argument.

I use him as example of strawmen argumentation, he proceeds with attacking with personal imagined scenarios in which I run from his discussions because I am "losing".

When you fail to address points put forward in argument, and then surrender in a childish fit, I would certainly consider it losing.

The butthurt is strong with you two

Yeah, well. I'm too stubborn for this place, honestly. When faced with someone of equal stubbornness, I end up in something of a feedback loop.

Looks like a downvote loop to me.

Meh. I'll live. Nothing of value

Nothing of value

That'll be a great name for your next sock.

Please haha. Name one sock account.

khamul787, that was tough.

That would be my main. Do you even know what a sock puppet is?

That would be my main.

Do you even know what a sock puppet is?

Yes, and its pretty obvious that's not what this account is. Your paranoia is showing.

its pretty obvious

says the sock.

You gonna provide proof for that? Cuz all I'm seeing is a false accusation. That's not very nice.

You being here is the proof silly!

So everyone here is a sock? Interesting theory!

No, just you.

Pay attention better.

Nono, I asked for proof. All you've given is presence here, which also applies to you and 200,000 others. You're going to have to try harder.

You being here is the proof

I don't need to say it differently. Maybe your reading comprehension is the issue?

Yes yes. So your proof is presence on this forum. Which makes exactly zero sense because there are thousands of others that fit that description. So what you're really telling me is that you have no actual proof. Correct?

So your proof is presence on this forum.

Just for you, yes, that is the proof.

Why? Can you explain your leap of logic? Because last time I checked, proof has to be universal. Just because it's proof for you doesn't mean it actually makes even the tiniest modicum of sense for anybody else.

I mean, I could claim to know that you're actually a potato, and my proof is that you too exist on this forum, but that doesnt actually make any sense.

So your proof is presence on this forum.

Just for you, yes, that is the proof.

Why? Can you explain your leap of logic? Because last time I checked, proof has to be universal. Just because it's proof for you doesn't mean it actually makes even the tiniest modicum of sense for anybody else.

I mean, I could claim to know that you're actually a potato, and my proof is that you too exist on this forum, but that doesnt actually make any sense.

Look! I can copy and paste too! Answer my question.

So your proof is presence on this forum.

Just for you, yes, that is the proof.

Mmk. Seems like your keyboard is broken. That is not proof. Provide actual proof and explain your jump of logic. Your argument is currently completely unfounded.

[deleted]

Then everyone is incorrect. What makes you think I'm a disinfo "specialist. (ooh, fancy!)" Do you have a real reason, or is it just because I disagree with you?

[deleted]

Oh wow. Five sentences and everyone of them an unfounded accusation dripping with condescension. OK, 'kiddo.' Its pretty obvious you have severe issues utilizing logic. Have a great day.

Oh wow.

Conspiratards are shocked by their essence.

[deleted]

Ladies ladies.. No personal attacks, please.

[deleted]

Please refrain from making troll or 'shill' accusations. Thank you.

Edit: Instead of levying pointless accusations, please do report them instead. All violations will be dealt with accordingly.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Then you missed the part where I comment on dozens of other topics. (and the part where I'm apparently paid to spend more than half my time talking about video games, but hey. We already know logic isn't your strong suit) But I guess that doesn't fit your agenda here.

Also, I still don't recall stalking you. I think you need to read a dictionary.

Come on conspiratard, I know who you are.

You still haven't proven shit, though. So really, you're jumping to conclusions without sufficient evidence, which is a silly thing to do.

[deleted]

I'm still waiting for proof. I'm pretty sure that sentence doesn't really confirm anything. But then, I never understand your logic.

[deleted]

What?

Well done.

That is part of the disruption, pointless crybaby posts.

Maybe we could have a /r/ConspiracyMeta forum for these issues to keep the /r/Conspiracy forum more on track. Its not a bad idea actually.

Bah this attack is real and it's damaging the integrity of the discourse, people saying it's not can fuck off.

Absolutely. It is annoying however to go into a topic and have the posts be off-topic complaining. We should have a better system for dealing with that and keeping content on topic while resolving any issues. Like a Meta subreddit could do.

Perhaps the reason why it keeps coming up is because no action is taken against it by Reddit. Imagine I came into a sub-reddit you use every single day and disrupted your discussion and called you an asshole and a lunatic constantly. It goes beyond trolling and it's a constant that has been done before even Reddit was around by the same people. People will come out of the wood work and play it down as trolling and make my post look paranoid but it isn't. It's been a long campaign of censorship that effected Digg to the point of nearly shutting down. Their admins removed the people that came here and setup conspiritard, why have Reddit not done the same?

Censoring people and trying to bury posts is not trolling, it's censorship. People on Reddit just don't care enough to rectify problems like a large number of people every day that listen to bullshit, get fed bullshit and do nothing about it.

Moving meta discussions from this subreddit to another will only serve to keep people in the dark about what is happening, why all their content is being downvoted. Look at the front page of /r/conspiracy, now look at it with the meta topics removed.

Yup, 100% agree, im in the same boat... or vote? shit what is it.

If you are being sincere.. i will tell you i've been here for awhile. It's an actual thing that is happening. Skeptards have lost the plot. This sub IS soured. And now it is what it is. Skeptards posting trolls and laughing at them as if they were real. There are more skeptards posting fake threads than people actually interested in conspiracy THEORIES. It is what it is.

Madness that this switch was flipped and suddenly comments like his are going to the top. People acting like it's always been like this, fuck off.

Retreat to productive forums. The /r/conspiratard fad is in the process of imploding. Until then this sub is an entertaining look at hysterical meta jerking. Skeptards unknowingly trolling themselves.

Yes but think about the unsuspecting redditor who stumbles in here not realizing the entire subreddit has been astroturfed.

That's the point. Disrupt, dilute and make it look like all of the sub is only about complete bullshit. That's why you get blanket name calling accusations in an absolute fashion because that's what people want and people do listen to it. I'm sure their is some people on conspiritard that are their for a bit of a laugh but the mods aren't. Conspiracies expose the politics and the actions they don't want to go away.

It's way beyond that. It's a jerk off sub for now. Activity is 50+% skeptard.

I'm reminded of how the JTRIG leaks were stickied for a week and just barely broke 1000 karma points.

Yet nothing stories get hundreds of upvotes daily. Maybe there really are only a handful of us foolish enough to still be here.

This.

It's been a pain intheass since the piss & moan fest! Hmmm?

You have an additional upvote to your 14!

Sleep is screaming at me! Quit bitching! Get back to the NUT!

This is really the top post here? I've been on this subreddit for years and I've never seen anything approaching the votebrigading going on at this very moment.

My opinion as an outsider? You guys are your own worst enemy. I'll see a title that looks interesting and open it up just to see comments bitching about downvotes and mass brigades and whatnot,

I think that's a fair point regardless.

How about changing the theme of this subreddit from the current dark and spooky dudes in sunglasses overlooking it, to something more justice and transparency orientated?

I check the "new" section regularly and try to vote the good ones up, and the alien, obvious mockery and other suspect shit down.

The entire site of reddit is under attack by censorship and other agenda driven shit, anything else we are doing to keep this subreddit from falling into the same pattern?

I love it. we're actually looking pretty good lately despite the attacks. As mindblowingly dumb as that may sound to some people reading this. Tesla censorship on /r/technology? They couldn't really explain it away, they had to give ground.

We could take the opportunity to work on our image.

^{I still like talking about aliens though}

I just don't like when people intentionally mix in the absurd, be it chupacabras, big foot, alien, or lizard shit with legitimate investigative journalism to spoil the entirety of the endeavor. I see this with 9/11 a lot and I think its a coordinated effort to discredit the research and topic.

Yeah I don't joke around about 9/11.

I'm personally guilty of bringing a little bit of paranormal/ET stuff into this subreddit because some of us enjoy it and it brings some much needed levity. It's a lot more fun to think about than the fact that we're gradually being enslaved by a totalitarian world government.

A theory is a supposition, an uncertain belief. So don't feel bad for wanting an open place to discuss IDEAS. Talk about UFOs if you want. WHO GIVES A FUCK. It's FUN. These skeptards are completely frustrated idiots who haven't a novel thought in their minds. If the idea doesn't come from a paper they don't understand or CNN they can't operate.

Most of them haven't actually read many papers. :( Mention real research to them and they disappear in a puff of smoke.

They don't read them because they don't understand them. They blindly believe the conclusion as indisputable truth.

It makes us look stupid. Instead of being the people who have done good work on 911 and other serious conspiracies, we become the crazies who believe there are aliens among us. I'm not saying they should be censored but we shouldn't encourage them or upvote them.

Doesn't make me look stupid. I don't find it offensive or threatening at all. Who cares if someone wants to believe in UFOs or bigfoot? I would be more concerned associating myself with someone who believed in the US government, the NSA, Monsanto or Pfizer. Those people don't just look stupid.. they are stupid.

You don't need to apologise for anything you post. I tend to stick to things that some people would perceive to be more based on reality but that doesn't mean I scoff at the idea of U.F.O's and such but I can see why some people think those topics might be detrimental to how this sub-reddit looks. The idea that this is a free thinking ground where topics can openly be discussed without censorship from mods is going in the direction a lot of the world is not.

It's incredibly important to maintain the idea that people should be able to formulate theories and opinions, present facts and expose crimes and corruption without fear or ridicule. Those kind of tactics of manipulation and intimidation are the reason why so many crimes are left unanswered.

The setup here is probably one of the best set of rules I've seen. No topic is censored, people either like it or don't and they up vote and down vote. Other sub reddits ban sites, submissions and even yesterday, Bipolarbear0 told people to refrain from speculating on the Fort Hood shooting in the post he/she created. The idea that you can't speculate or look for answers that aren't given to you by government mouthpieces is really disturbing to me. If that's all we had the ability to receive, we'd be completely fucked.

And I think now is a good time for a suggestion I have for people that post here.

• Take more time to consider the information before you post

• Check out the information before you post it, not just the headline

• Try and supply multiple sources for you post

• Try and use source material if it applies

• Try and accommodate skeptics by using sources they trust

• Start reporting people that are not here for discussion to the mods and do your part

All of these things would help this sub-reddit in a huge way.

This would never have been so heavily downvoted just weeks ago.

a practice of posting extensive sources is debatable and potentially a double-edged sword. a theory with proof is no longer a theory and speculation requires no proof. as for "accommodating skeptics" --fuck them.

I'm not using the full Reddit site so I don't see the up/down ratio. What is the number if you can post it please?

Maybe it's because of "considerate." Kidding :)

Bah, missed that. I'll change that now to consider! :)

It was 5/5 when I made the comment, including my upvote. Now I see 6/4.

Thanks!

Aliens (fictional) will be used to further enslave us. 9/11 appears to be the lead up to the exceptionally great lie. That enough will buy, and turn their hateful hearts towards this created "common enemy." Carefully watch for it as the economy nears collapse. While they may exist, they very likely are not visiting earth. Only humans fucking with other humans they deem lesser. As they have since the dawn of man, sadly. Nothing ever really changes.

Believe me when the alien mothership is hovering over DC I'll be the first one calling "Bullshit!"

Clinton is publicly backing disclosure. Couple the around the clock bombardment from alien television programming, with the run up of more and more famous names t back this so called demanded disclisure. This is all a CIA fantasy dreamed up as they were tucking with MK Ultra (mind kontrol). Getting a heard-on for world domination through subversion and lie. Through secret society who now claim Switzerland home.

The shit is getting shittier.

You would scoff at those that see, perceive, dream about such events?

According to some in here, there's this Card game.

Paranormal/ET events? Personally no, but since we're the front page of "conspiracy," high ranking result on google, I understand the desire people have to keep things more down to earth here. I want the free discussion, but I also don't want to scare away anyone who might wander in here.

What's this about a card game?

What's this about a card game?

The one that exhibits events of the NWO.

Honestly, I was just getting very punchy late last night. I've been voting like crazy for several weeks now (except the heddit hiccup...) to keep posts alive!

It drives me crazy when someone takes the time to comment but doesn't vote for the thread... These attacks have been horrible.

Still punchy this a.m. gotta run!

Its likely the adversaries of truth who continually stoke that fire. We may need to just fight them based on their established rules of engagement. Beat them at their own game. Publicize the side they wish to keep out of the public eye. May their own methods damn them.

The time where truth and justice must prevail is now. Who will stand, before they force you to stand?

^{Ed-Formatting}

I love that stuff. Please don't make me go to GLP to get it. I may not believe in all of it, but like Nietzsche said (more or less), he who deserves to rule must survive attempts at assassination.

On edit: Ideas, people, I mean ideas. "Morality must be shot at" and all that.

The CIA runs this trash to make us appear foolish. Some may make some sense, but they are always still disinfo nonetheless.

They more likely run "Sandy Hook is a false flag" than Annunaki stuff.

They have been placing tinfoil hats on us for the last half century. After they killed Kennedy it went full bore. The threat of our disclosure of the truth was apparently that damaging to their continual lies.

I still like talking about aliens though

<3 :)

Please keep talking about aliens. This sub has exploded in the last year. It's important to remember our roots.

You cant just go for the known. I love the alien posts. Breaks up the monotony. Im not an aliens-are-here theorist, but I am a 'its a really big space out there, could be something' guy.

Agree. I have my specific areas of interest. Most here do. But it adds to the flavor of /r/conspiracy to have articles about Area 51, aliens, etc...

A lot of people worry about how this sub is perceived. I honestly couldn't give a fuck.

Yeah, the confirmation of the NSA cellphone thing (Which was my big one. Cameras on both sides man....) was my "I dont give a shit anymore" moment. After that things like Convair 9/11 hard drive analysis became more possible/plausible.

Moreover, having gone through numerous "Government wouldn't do that , its terrible. Oh, they did? Well it doesnt matter." incidents tends to help this confidence.

Edit:amplification.

Please talk more about this corsair hd recovery

I came here because no matter how diverse the subject or contribution... comment, communication and information was being shared.

People were giving honest, thoughtful, personal feedback. Five or six comments, with nuggets of look here, consider this too!

It doesn't bother, hinder or impede me in the least bit to be down voted when I sign off: Dream great dreams, Reddit!

Schwartz gave Intellectual Gold to his Peers and they, like those of Tesla, sold out.

Your Image is a shit stain that precedes your birth! Yes! Your shit most often presents first! Crazy enough, the shit you swam in, was expelled upon your birth!

Talk about Alien existence?

Be mindful and considerate in how you comment, interact, engage and vote!

Read. Engage. Discuss. Share. Learn.

If nothing inspires you in your daily grind let your head find rest, somewhere, somehow, in dreaming beyond the shit storm of birth, life and death!

Dream! Dream well! Dream great!

Others, perhaps like myself, migrated here due to 9/11. I honestly felt respect was huge in here back then.

Dr. Bronner, is really you?

Sorry. I do not know the reference. Would be happy to discuss if you will enlighten me as to the comparison.

Look up Dr. Bronner's magic soap. Your comment reminds me of the writing on the bottle.

Oh. Damn. That's not good.

To be clear here: I would never advise women to use lemon and Vaseline on their sensitive lady parts as a form of birth control. Ever.

The "Tesla censorship" was due to spamming of stories, probably by Tesla flacks (they're big on social media). You might like the company, but they're not 50% of all technology. Tesla has certainly been adequately covered by reddit.

As we watch the corrupt media attack and demonize Tesla motor Corp. No.

As we watch the corrupt media attack and demonize Tesla

I'm not a fan of GM and Ford and their lock on the domestic auto industry.

But this is just crazy. Tesla is a tech media darling. They get enormous and constant positive press. Especially considering that they are a tiny boutique automaker like Ferrari.

Perhaps all that press means that they get some negative press too, but they negative press Tesla has gotten over QA problems is really nothing next to the negative attention GM has received over recent product recalls (which led to fatalities), for example.

If you think the incumbent automakers are blocking electric cars, that just isn't so. I've driven electric cars. I like electric cars. But there remain serious logistical issues with batteries involving range and charging that have yet to be overcome. Lots of people are working on higher-density batteries, but it's a tougher problem than you may think.

Legitimacy, based solely on the significant items that we caught and called out. And at least on these, the beauty called truth prevailed.

Agreed. WorldNewsPost yesterday.

Aliens are real dude.

Yes. You are one.

we all are

You're back? Whaaa-? How?

Still says "user not found" when I hover on your name.

Thats one of the biggest cover-ups of them all

I was just taking this as an opportunity to provide some feedback about the community and this subreddit in general.

It's going to be hard to combat the downvotes if they are done by bots or algorithms and from coordinated effort by people who have more access or power than the moderators of the individual subreddit.

i think it could do with a refresh baring in mind the last guy who did it was not even a truther and there is some wasted space at the sides and other issues.

how about a competition for the best design?

if you remember it was that guy all the fuss was about who applied for and got the job of mod cos his mate suggested him, or some shit and refused to quit for a few days despite the whole community wanting him to. i dont remember his name, i dont really want to... but one thing for sure he didnt belong here and his heart was not in the right place when he made the css. remember the sea of pyramids and all seeing eyes that got axed after a few hours?

you prefer the cia coined 'conspiracy theorist' over truther? give me strength......

/u/SolidWhetStone. I was actually just thinking a couple of days ago I wish we could get rid of the css he did. I know that's not what the point of this post was, but since it was brought up I thought I would mention that I don't like it either.

He was pure evil. I third the change. Currenrly, as it stands, it's ridiculous.

We can win, the targets of the down voting tribe are very politically motivated. If the title doesn't please them or the link site, or the OP. Down it goes, to oblivion.

I scan the new page upvote conspiracy items, never mind if I agree, It if it a conspiracy related post I will upvote, even If I have no agreement.
I am very flexible on what is considered conspiracy by the OP, questions are good, speculations are fine, a new view sometimes surfaces from someone who is not too buried in the details of their own previous conclusions.

Yeah. I mostly upvote good stuff too and occasionally downvote if I think something is obvious spam or outright mockery of anything related to conspiracy. I think we are winning too and as someone else again pointed out, if we weren't doing something right we wouldn't be getting this kind of attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng9SEB7N-yc

My main concern is disingenuous moderators are admin on reddit intentionally thwarting our efforts here through shadowbans and outright censorship like what seems to be the case in the Bostonbombing and Sandyhook subreddits. Autobots also concern me if anything with such and such a word or from a particular site is automatically set to get a downvote for every upvote or something of that nature. But I don't have the skills to accurately identify that or combat it if I did.

I just remember when the front page of reddit used to be a place where I learned about people like Bill Hicks, Mitch Hedberg, and Nikola Tesla and where we collaborated and organized things such as the SOPA blackout and the Colbert/Stewart rally, which turned out to be a bust, but showed the power and potential of a social media user base that a site like Reddit has.

Like American, it is being purposefully rotted from the inside.

R/conspiracy isn't the last bastion of hope by any means..

Although I do troll the new section for ass hole shills and down voters.

I like facts, but I also like ideas.

I have noticed though that there are a lot more disinfo articles in the new section as well..this is something to watch out for still. Kind of like the plastic ice that came in for a week straight from all kinds of different users.

How about changing the theme of this subreddit from the current dark and spooky dudes in sunglasses overlooking it, to something more justice and transparency orientated?

seems like a lot of support for this idea, being that this is from the top voted post in this thread

the men-in-black aliens? Pretty appropriate if you ask me.

bail

I notice the downvote brigading in r/conspirators, occasionally, as well as bogus reporting of posts. But it comes and goes. We have to keep vigilant of these things. Censorship is a growing and very serious problem on Reddit, and even though I don't have evidence yet, I suspect the admins are in on it

This is called concern trolling. He claims to care about hte community then viciously attacks the core tenents of it in order to force a different ideology. The fact it's getting upvotes show the populace here is long lost from hope.

Is it possible to not just constrict the 'Conspiracy' label - as this has come to be more about independent truth, awakening/exposure, and just try to recognize the root of public agendas. Conspiracy does justice, but its label in todays society doesn't do as much justice for what this community strives for.

Sad to see that my personal controversial research was not wrong about the problems this sub has been facing recently, but glad that the mods have been on it and letting us know about the situation.

The fact that there's an entire sub with users dedicated to mocking and insulting this sub doesn't help us either.

They want us banned by the admins now LOLOLOLOL

http://np.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/224hd2/i_hope_the_admins_get_tired_of_the_spam_from_that/

The funniest part about that thread is that the author does NOTHING all day except link to threads here.

That user has a serious obsession resulting from a mental disorder. He is the one consistently spamming his own sub with content from here that he hates, one can see easily how unstable he is by looking at his history.

It is best to ignore people like him or he might become violent and hurt someone.

I guess 1 thread about this wasn't enough for him..

http://np.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/224ua9/looks_like_the_mods_of_rconspiracy_got_tired_of/

Like I said, serious obsession resulting from a mental disorder.

I think he and duckvimes account for over 50% of their new threads lol

Yes and their fake accounts are responsible for at least 50% of the threads here! hahahaha.

JIDF fools. It's also likely bpb is a shared account as well.

could he be dangerous, maybe even... violent?!?

He wouldn't be the first one

This Biffingston character is a complete fool. "My sister, she was a flight attendant on 9/11. And, uh...coincidentially I was scheduled to fly to Jersey (slimeball) on 9/11. It's disrespectful to discuss the obviously engineered 9/11 operation."

Discussing fact and truth is not disrespectful. You've attempted, just as all the other shills who claim to have lost magical family members during the Sandy Hoax. Flare claims to help their nonexistent credibility, then focusing in on the emotional ploys. Anything to get the world to stop doscusso.g the truth. A simile for how the JIDF forum over there operates.

Can I ask how it is you find those posts so quickly? Do you follow that user? I would never see anything from that subreddit if it weren't for members here constantly posting stuff. It's as if some of you are constantly trying to encourage this subreddit's members to go to that subreddit.

Why give it any publicity at all? It's no different than posting links to Fox or MSNBC every day...

You've brought that up a few times.

I'll give you my take. I enjoy discussing conspiracy. if someone has a wacky idea about bigfoot banging a space alien it doesn't offend me. It can be interesting and entertaining.

What's not of interest is a sub where the majority of posts are unimaginative trolls by juvenile tools. That's where we are at with /r/conspiracy. As a result i need to keep myself entertained by examining the mental behavior that is overwhelmingly presented here. When you follow it along you end up on /r/conspiratard. And honestly, it's a really interesting thing that is happening. They are unknowingly trolling themselves by posting their own troll submissions on /r/conspiracy to /r/conspiratard. I find that interesting and I'm likely going to follow it to it's tragic conclusion.. When it becomes so obvious that a larger reddit majority will become aware of it and it will become a meme, providing years of enjoyment.

This thread is part of the story. First the majority of sincere subscribers here need to become aware of the novel event unfolding. And as a result, the skeptards will have an opportunity to, since they make up 50% of the activity here.

Not quite accurate. Here, have this downvote until you have some coherent anything to post.

Fight fire with fire. They CONSTANTLY post links to new threads here, and people wonder why the new queue in consistently downvoted. I think more people should be aware of the constant brigading that goes on.

edit: i find them the easy way, i click on their new queue every so often. 50% of the threads there are made by 3-4 users.

They don't seem to have 1/50th kf our thread/comment volume. The poster seems to be trying to insult you for stalking them, when it's incredibly easy to review their recent bullshit. Failed. You can easily find it. Either by the linking bots, or by a quick 5 minute visit.

OP is a stalker-type personality. He follows everyone who posts in this sub and obsesses over it. Id wager to say that if I did a search of his screen name, it would be on more than just Reddit, and involving exactly the same things.

Awww. You brigade us at every opportunity. But when we spot and publicly call out your ridiculous bullshit, were now stalkers. Excuse me sir. Your ignorance is showing.

I asked in the other thread; for the cause of transparency, and what could help prove that we are actually being targeted, could you or another mod post the correspondence between the admins? I, and I'm sure many others in this sub, would love to see proof (not that you're lying) that there actually were trolls downvoting everything en masse.

do you really need proof to see that the shills are downvoting everything? this isn't new, its been happening for awhile.

as censorship on reddit worsens.. shillery on /r/conspiracy will worsen as well

It seems very clear that this sub is under attack, and the rate, tenacity and staying power of the efforts indicate that it is not being carried out by a few pimply-faced kids out for the laughs via ridicule.

Apparently SOME of the posts, comments and information are touching nerves - and is being taken seriously enough to warrant a concerted effort to SHUT YOU UP.

So, what are the topics being discussed in this sub that have attracted the attention of the Killer Bees?

Is it UFO's and aliens? Not likely. Is it the NSA debackle? Nah, that is being discussed broadly across many "mainstream" subs.

So what is it that is being said that they are willing to work so hard to censor via their "downvote DOS attack"?

To answer that, it may be productive to look at WHO is mounting the attack, and see if we can find common denominators among the members of that group: What are their commonalities? Which topics to they find the MOST irritating and "offensive". What topics cause them to rant, rave and fling accusations on the "moral character" of the sub and its members?

Whatever it is, we need to do MORE of it, not less.

" If I am killing a rat with a stick and have him in a corner, I am not indignant if he tries to bite me and squeals and gibbers with rage. My job is, not to get angry, but to keep cool, to attend to my footwork and to keep on hitting him where it will do the most good."

• - A. S. Leese

Vaccines, nuclear power, GMOs, 9/11, Israel/Zionism, Sandy Hook. Those seem to be the main ones - there may be a few more.

Id say number 4 and 5 on that list are the buzzwords.

Good idea to sticky this - there are probably a lot of legit users here who mainly browse the "hot" queue or just check into the sub now and then and may not be aware of the rampant vote manipulation that's been occurring (which seems to have gotten much worse over the last week or so).

I stick mostly to the new posts, the hot is very disturbing in what makes the top, most days. The worthier posts are there sometimes, but further down. If I peruse new, I can up vote conspiracy items. I don't discriminate according to what I personally consider rational ideas.
I am not really a conspiracy chaser, I only follow the national dialog and our status as individuals in our own nation, (rapidly diminishing), and am fine with aliens and illuminati, even if I don't consider those ideas helpful. I am fine with having them on the thread. The bigger the tent, the higher the number of good ideas, no one is forcing us to read what we disagree with.

Actually it's a pretty bad idea cause it alerts all of the people who want to troll this subreddit of another way of doing it. I can almost guarantee this problem will get worse because of this post.

I could swear I read a post about 3 months ago that dismantled the algorithm and proved that a post that receives a down vote very early in will literally never recover.

Anyone remember that one?

Edit: found it. http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1siiiw/reddits_empire_is_founded_on_a_flawed_algorithm/

Title: Reddit’s empire...

That should be enough to make change happen!

Actually, it did.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2276ue/reddits_empire_no_longer_founded_on_a_flawed/

I also read that. Here's the update.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2276ue/reddits_empire_no_longer_founded_on_a_flawed/

If you look in the comments you'll see that they fixed this issue, but there are still others.

Without your support our community dies.

Our community is already dead all the core contributors have been wrongfully shadowbanned by the Admins of the site. Contrary to popular belief the Admins are NOT here to help us. We are not only under attack by the usual suspects but the Admins as well someone you cannot fight back against. Most of this site is dead as far as it being non controlled source of information and free discussion amongst like minded people, now its just a cesspool of shills, trolls, censorship by mods, and Admin removals/shadowbans.

Yeah man, this place is a shadow of what it used to be when I first came here. The intellect has shot way down. There used to be masterminds at work here, and there still are, but all the negative attention I think has rightfully spooked some people away. When you start to look at FEMA camps and their coffin supplies, DHS buying up all the ammo, Sandy Hook shit coming after peoples guns, ad infinitum. They're thumbing their nose at this place and simultaneously deploying so much propaganda and internet warfare. I mean there is a whole cyber battle group in the us mil for christ's sake. Imagine what they're trying to do to foreign nets. And the fact is, folks in this sub prob aren't debating any of them, they're not here to converse. They're here to down vote like crazy. Hell, reddit is conde naste right. Sure wouldn't be hard to blackmail the share holders to clamp down this place considering that much of the NSA data center bullshit is used for corporate espionage. I mean, wall street is stealing at miliseconds. The whole world is in on it. What purpose does this sub serve to money? Nothing. It hinders these greedy enterprises. Wouldn't want that in a country whose economy is based on buying consumer goods aka cheap, needless garbage.

I had a five year account and after about 3 months of coming to this sub it was shadowbanned. I could not believe it. They said it was for participating in a vote brigade from conspiracy.

Makes you wonder how a sub like /r/bestof can exist. Isn't that entire sub a giant vote brigade? I didn't even know vote brigading was a thing until I came here. I used to do it all the time because I thought it was normal. I'd find a link to an interesting thread and then go there and vote as I'd normally do.

Then all of a sudden I do that with a thread from conspiracy and I'm shadowbanned. A 5 year account gone without even a warning. Disgusting.

[deleted]

Pretty sure there is more than one user per account as well. Think about how one of them could possibly mod 70+ subs. There are several accounts that mod way too many subs for it to just be a hobby.

IMO, it's a team that is gaming the system. Doesn't make sense that they are somehow just a coordinated "volunteer" group.

my three year old main got shadowbanned to for "vote brigading" from /r/conspiracy which i wasn't even aware i had participated in a brigade. when i asked the admins for evidence or a link to what i had voted on i never received a reply, banned for doing something i didn't even have knowledge of.

1 minute, 5 downvotes lol

Pathetic people committed to what makes them pathetic. To be as pathetic as these loserBeing as pathetic as they are is a full time job and they are excellent at it.

Are there not any other solutions?

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/220gz1/do_skeptards_promote_state_horrors_like_nazism/

This thread says it all. 54 up, 54 down.

50% of the activity on /r/conspiracy is from skeptards. They are so lost in their troll attempts they are inadvertently linking fellow skeptard trolls from here to /r/conspiratard.

They are pointing and laughing at their own BAD troll attempts under the delusion that they are real posts. Honestly, it's one of the funniest, most bizarre things I've personally witnessed on reddit or any other forum/discussion community.. And I've been doing this since the days of fidoNet.

It WILL implode. Soon, associating yourself to /r/conspiratard will be like openly announcing you love eating shit.

This is a sticky post. People down vote for fun since karma is completely meaningless.

It's just so fun clicking that little down arrow!

What kind of lunatic "downvotes for fun"?

What kind of lunatic places any value on down votes?

Downvotes determine the information that gets shown to thousands of people.

Obviously all of those who are clicking the downvote button (which this post is about) believe it has value of some sort, otherwise why would they be doing it? Unless you, too, believe that it's just a bit of "fun" continually refreshing the new queue on this sub and downvoting every submission.

Not for sticky posts. As I said, karma is completely meaningless for this post.

I'm mostly in it for the dogecoin and good crisis actor jobs.

I have found myself in a pickle. I worry I don't know what is bullshit and whats not a lot of times. Or what has been debunked before or what is a legit submission. So (generally) I fear to upvote, as i could be bumping a dis-information post, and I don't downvote because I fear it could putting down the truth. :/

So up-vote to promote discussion and leave a comment asking for clarification. Whether I like an article or not, I up vote if I think that it is discussion worthy, not to promote belief. I think a lot of people here do that.

The price of a pickle.

Here's how I go about things. I (usually) either vote or comment, one or the other.

If I vote, my vote means: I think this topic is interesting, needs to be discussed, or is something I'm curious about and would like to read others' opinions on it.

If I comment, my comment stands on its own merit.

This works very well with reddit's processing for the hot (front page) list.

For a post to be in "hot", the reddit processing considers both the voting and the commenting. This is how you can see something in the "hot default 25 list" that only has a few votes, but also has several comments. I've seen posts with as few as 20 total votes (e.g., 15/-5) but also had 10 or more comments... as high as number 5 on the hot front page.

I fear to upvote, as i could be bumping a dis-information post

This is where the comments mitigate. I've upvoted posts I thought were potentially disinfo, because I saw comments underneath discussing that fact - thus, my vote was for people to see the discussion about the disinfo, not necessarily to believe the posted link.

Don't be afraid. Participate. If you want to see something discussed, but don't have something to immediately offer, upvote... get others' input... come back later and learn from it. If you comment, great; especially if it's a productive comment.

hear hear

It means what's happening here is working. The reason to target r/conspiracy is because it is a threat.

That's jumping to conclusions. Assuming something actually is happening (I honestly don't really care enough to really dig into it to find out), it could just be a small group of people who either hate some people here, or just don't like the general idea of this sub. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a threat.

I mean, come on, it's a sub on a website known for memes that has some 200,000 subscribers, far less active users. Very unlikely it is some actual concerted effort to censor information or quiet dissent or any such things.

So you're saying that there are 10-20 people who sit on reddit all day in the /r/conspiracy "new" queue continually refreshing the page and downvoting every post for, what? For fun? That seems likely to you?

Are you arguing that they downvote for financial gain?

I was responding to your claim that it's

Very unlikely it is some actual concerted effort to censor information or quiet dissent or any such things.

I think that it is a concerted effort (or at least could be one) - I never said anything about financial gain though I certainly wouldn't rule it out. JTRIG and online marketing groups do exist.

Now, care to answer my question?

Yes a threat to their juvenile jerk off session.

I like stickies and this one especially. Thanks Mods!

I never look at the front page. I just browse new until I see something interesting. It's easier to make my own opinions that way.

I like to view by controversial. The best conspiracies are always down-voted, even here.

I like the eye at the top of the triangle and the 2 masonic pillars.

I will contribute to this discussion in this way. We must look at this situation as we do our constitution. We cant stifle the right to free speech but we do need to figure out a sensible solution to our problem of people having the ability to hide what they deem too sensitive. The moment we divide ourselves we have only helped them destroy us as a whole. I do hope we all figure out a way to bring /r/conspiracy back to what it was.

Looks like the mods of /r/conspiracy got tired of multiple front page posts claiming vote brigades so they made a sticky about it. Still not getting that people naturally downvote out of disgust and stupidity of the posts though.

by: /u/75000_Tokkul

Upvotes: 64 | Downvotes: 20 | Timestamp of this thread.

Upvotes: 2 | Downvotes: 3 | Timestamp of cross-posting thread.

If this was an error, send me a message

/u/User_History_Bot Ocolus_the_bot

Data for the last 704 comments (MAX 1000)

To summon this bot, the first line of your comment should be: /u/user_history_bot USERNAME

lol, they don't brigade much at all. 400 links

That's an average of 7 cross-posts a day. This account is only 55 days old. I would say that's a pretty good amount of cross-posts.

I bet at least 25% of those are 3 distinct people too

The Oculus bot has been providing evidence AGAINST vote brigades by providing a timestamp.

For example, the bot's comment states a timestamp score of 64|20 - 44 karma for this thread 5 hours ago.

This thread is now at 225|92 - 133 karma.

So since being posted to /r/conspiratard, this thread has gained karma, thus disproving any allegations of a brigade.

OR the people who frequent here have upvoted it more than the people who saw the thread where this was linked.

In which case the evidence (of a downvote brigade) is gone and your claim left unsubstantiated.

Well what do ya know? /u/75000_tokkul again, like clockwork.

[deleted]

I honestly don't know what you can do. Any posts that include a hot topic or corporation name in the title get downvoted into oblivion immediately. If you obscure it a little, it takes a little longer, but you'll eventually get stomped.

I'll continue to stick to the new queue and continue to post links I find worthwhile despite it, though. If only because I find it really interesting to see what gets a rash of downvotes before any human actually could have read the headline...

I'd just like to point out that some of us (I won't name names) have given our daily support to this sub, only to be kicked off it for trivial imagined infractions. That cools you down pretty damned quick when it comes to loyalty to the sub. But here's an idea -- instead of kicking off people who contribute daily at a significant level, try kicking off the trolls and shills and brigaders for a change.

[deleted]

http://i.imgur.com/eIYQnTw.png

Thanks for stickying this.

I posted a sort of heartfelt appeal to reddit about this issue on /r/self last night, got a lot of downvotes, but a surprising amount of upvotes. I think it was 120 up 100 down when I checked this morning.

Damnedest thing, it got more upvotes, and less downvotes in the first hour than a very similar post I made here, asking for advice on how to reach out to other subreddits for support.

I slap that guy who told me it was pointless to try with my 120 upvotes.

This is very true. I regularly check r/new and it is so fucking obvious that there's a downvote brigade here at work 24/7. I've seen posts down voted that were barely 1 min old. Is there a way to block the IP address? So much good content is being wasted by these troglodytes and it's really hurting this sub.

d/v brigade here

That sucks. I do not come here often and I hope it gets better.

It won't get any better, normal users don't get paid to speak their minds but the shills trying to discredit/troll every real post made here do.

Sockpuppets: do you read what you're monitoring at times and ponder ur mission?

Can this sub be changed to allow upvotes only? That way the shills would have a harder time hiding stories.

I've seen subs where within the sub they remove the downvote (this was a while ago, haven't seen it recently as I recall), but it has limited usability. Similar to how some subs let you have flair after your name (for instance in /r/losit).

That hurts more than helps. All you need to do to downvote is uncheck the "enable subreddit style" box on the right side of the page to be able to downvote again.

The subs with upvotes only have a crippled feel to them to me.

Agreed.

That's a bad idea, even were it possible. We need the downvote to indicate that a post is wrong for the sub.

Or maybe we should build a list of trusted users who can up/downvote ?

you mean consolidate the power into a monopoly like our hierarchy of rulers have done? You new here ?

I personally changed my bookmark link from reddit to reddit/conspiracy

so that i can remember to check this place first, because we need it, it is making a great change!

I know. I posted a nice new submission of a video on on 911. Just the kind of thing /r/conspiracy would like.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/223tbe/the_ultimate_proof_nist_is_lying_about_wtc7/

It's got almost as many downvotes as upvotes. And sometimes more.

The paid shills are winning.

I always check the new section and give an upvote to something that deserves attention. I suppose they can't stop everyone because some quality posts always make it to the main page. It doesn't make any sense to me the people who come here and because they genuinely dislike the community downvote things. Shills will be shills, but its a shame that some cant consider the fact that people want to talk about a subject(s) that make them uncomfortable.

I wouldn't consider this forum a community. Even a few years ago before the diggtards showed up everyone was attacking each other. That's ok though - it's like the thunderdome. Say what you have to say and move on. I see a lot of what the mods say and do here as the same as the govt. if they really wanted things to improve for the better they would make changes to accommodate this being a better place. Instead they make rules like rule #10 that have only made it worse. You don't want downvote brigades? Disable the voting. This place has taken a slide and is most likely on its way out but shit happens and things change and we may hopefully find some other place for a while but don't start with the sentimental "community" bullshit. At least try to go out with the illusion of dignity.

Its amazing that the CIA/NSA is targeting this fucking place. Unfucking believable.

maybe we should fake our own death.

We should just make a new sub. New sub, new rules, just everything new.

Don't make a new one. I'm critical of some conspiracy theories and I get downvoted into oblivion for it. Yes I have commented on conspiritard too, but I do believe there are conspiracies in abundance. Just the popular ones grate with me, especially when there is quite good evidence against a conspiracy.

Just watch how I get comments removed from askreddit - I'm about to post a quite good question, but it'll be pulled.

The Question I'm about to pose is 'If I book a holiday in Egypt and there's a public stoning of a 12 year old prostitute taking place, will I face prosecution in the US or Europe if I join in and bounce some rocks on her skull?'.

The answer is a resounding NO! I already know that I wouldn't, just as I wouldn't face prosecution if I travel to Syria, join the rebel forces for two weeks, rape a few Christian children and then murder their entire family and eat their hearts on a live streaming webcam.

Why is nobody addressing these issues? The laws make no sense - if you travel to Cambodia and have sex with an under age prostitute you will face prosecution in both the US or EU - so you can't have sex for money with one, but you can murder an underage prostitute in another part of the world, and you can rape one if you're a member of an approved rebel force?

This is a conspiracy! This is going on right now and thousands of people are exploiting it!

Hi guys, just made this here account, pretty much solely for the purpose of this sub and for participating in the discussions herein.

I had a couple of hours to read and scan through all the various posts before I created this account, and then I saw this stickied post, so I thought I'd leave some input.

My biggest problem with a lot of what gets posted here is the same problem most news sites have, and that is sensationalised post headings.

Guys (the guys guys, not the people that are here only to rot this sub from within, and to them I recommend fucking a landmine), please try to be unbiased in the way you present information. Information is a thing which gets put through the prism of the mind that's interpreting it anyway, there is no need to attach bias to a piece of information before people have a chance to find out what the subject at hand actually is.

As far as the downvoting problem this sub seems to be experiencing, all I can say is this: persevere. If you see misinformation or something equally suspect, report it. If you see something as a relevant piece of information that should be seen, upvote it regardless of your personal feeling towards the subject matter. The thing about a place like this is that everyone is here for a reason. And while it may not be for the same specific reason you are here, these things we share in common with each other are beyond the scope of our personal prejudice. We are all in this together, so let's act like it.

Finally, I would just like to thank everyone involved in this sub and everyone involved in the spreading of information that is relevant to our survival as a species. It saddens me more and more each day to see my fellow man completely enslaved by their own kind, be it through financially crippling mortgage payments or through the thick layer of blubber that is reality TV. We all exist on the same planet, but unfortunately we are not all on the same planet, if you follow.

And these people, they don't know any better. They only have what they have been able to absorb from their environment, coupled with their own curiosity and fearlessness, however limited it may be. And the thing is, none of us started out the way we are now. We all share a similar past of an uninformed existence. But we are here now and that is what matters.

So thank you, each and every one of you, for this. For each monolithic oak that has stood the test of time came from a tiny seed, unaware of its own significance at the time of being said seed. We are the seed. Let's get to work.

We are getting closer and making people afraid. I wonder which posts does this

Check out the reddit FAQ, this part in particular.

How is a submission's score determined?

A submission's score is simply the number of upvotes minus the number of downvotes. If five users like the submission and three users don't it will have a score of 2. Please note that the vote numbers are not "real" numbers, they have been "fuzzed" to prevent spam bots etc. So taking the above example, if five users upvoted the submission, and three users downvote it, the upvote/downvote numbers may say 23 upvotes and 21 downvotes, or 12 upvotes, and 10 downvotes. The points score is correct, but the vote totals are "fuzzed".

One could only blame "vote fuzzing" for what we're seeing if it had always been like this. The massive downvoting of good posts and upvoting of troll posts is a fairly recent development. It was also sporadic at first but is now constant.

Fuck yeah. The elite can do everything they can to destroy our civilization, but we're going to do everything we can to stop them. And we will win. You guys are my favorite community on the entire goddamn internet.

And we will win.

How do you know that?

'Cause of people like you.

God is on our side.

God fights for the side with the best artillery

So the meek do not inherit the Earth? On that, we must disagree.

Oh-kay...

So our winning is based on faith. I was hoping for something a little more concrete.

[deleted]

And you are here because? If we are pathetic, what does that make the parasites (you) that live off us?

I was here first. Im just waiting for the rest of you to leave so we can get back to business...

[deleted]

So? you say that as if it means anything....

He has a point ya know.

I suppose stupid people might believe so...

Disable downvotes. You might end up with crap on the page but it may be the only option to keep the good stuff there as well.

Either that, or make sticky posts about each issue that way they can't downvote them into oblivion. A sticky each for NSA, manipulating the internet, Sandy Hook, 9/11, etc.

Reddit doesn't allow this. It does allow hiding the downvote button, but that wouldn't stop bots from downvoting.

How about being able to place a small tag icon next to the known shills name so others can see? Then we can monitor their actions just like the NSA monitors.

How can we honestly determine if a person is a shill or troll without witch hunting. Also you can do that for yourself with Reddit enhancement suite. Though only you can see your tags.

I've been a newtard for a while now. I upvote the shit out of anything that isn't tits out cray cray.

[deleted]

You don't have to come here you know.

Hello conspiracy. Another outsider here and regular SRDer. What are your opinions of us? I don't want to start a flame war, just a healthy discussion. Thanks :)

dramaqueens that have nothing better to do. clicking that sub makes my skin crawl

Is there a way we can make our upvotes count more than the shills? Like one of my upvotes counts as 20

This is perfect, I actually considered created a spare account just to set up an Upvote protest to raise exposure of the unfortunate manipulation that has been occurring on worthwhile submissions.

Mods, please check who's censoring this, it's ridiculous to think that it would have received 20 downvotes in this sub, obvious shenanigans

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/225v62/glaxosmithkline_today_recalls_paxilseroxat/

Best way to defeath a troll is to hug him! Upvote the trolls!

Edit: Removed 1 "s"..

"/r/conspiracy is being targeted" I remember this happening years ago. Why would it change?

There's been a change.

What's changed about it?

/r/conspiracy[1] is being targeted.

Is it the Illuminati, Jews, "The Gays", reptile aliens or the government?

Who is ruining /r/conspiracy? 84 children are attempting to decide

by: /u/75000_Tokkul

Upvotes: 619 | Downvotes: 254 | Timestamp of this thread.

Upvotes: 7 | Downvotes: 3 | Timestamp of cross-posting thread.

If this was an error, send me a message

That sub is a /r/conspiracy wanna be!

When a submitter submits to /r/conspiracy, they should make a comment on their own submission to the new queue, to nudge others into clicking it. Users who see this link should reply with a link to another submission in the new queue that is relevant, that way even if things get downvoted there's still links to them in other threads, able to be discovered by users browsing these threads years from now

http://reddit.com/r/conspiracy/new

Thanks for adding this!

[deleted]

I agree with this concept as we have other subreddits but they are not as strong. If we can clarify and organize great subs that can cover all the bases, we can potentially multitaskingly migrate and build up those communities as well as this.

I also believe that if it is possible, to maybe a way for reddit to introduce a tier system for new accounts to earn the privilege to downvote, or a way to reflect the choice of negative contribution over positive contribution.

Because that's another derailment tactic. The intelligent commentary gets buried below pages of distracting banter with shills.

I look at it differently. If you go to /r/politics and try to post something "transparent" about the Obama administration, it will get removed. Similar to Tesla in /r/technology. Stuff doesn't get deleted so much here, and what does is logged in /r/uncensorship. So you get more noise here, but also a lot more transparency. Which is more like the real world.

That's an average of 7 cross-posts a day. This account is only 55 days old. I would say that's a pretty good amount of cross-posts.

And we will win.

How do you know that?

The Oculus bot has been providing evidence AGAINST vote brigades by providing a timestamp.

For example, the bot's comment states a timestamp score of 64|20 - 44 karma for this thread 5 hours ago.

This thread is now at 225|92 - 133 karma.

So since being posted to /r/conspiratard, this thread has gained karma, thus disproving any allegations of a brigade.

Hell, there was a guy in a thread yesterday who admitted to downvoting everything in "new" and admitted to using sockpuppets in his own personal downvote brigades.

Are you arguing that they downvote for financial gain?

You being here is the proof silly!

You being here is the proof

I don't need to say it differently. Maybe your reading comprehension is the issue?

Why? Can you explain your leap of logic? Because last time I checked, proof has to be universal. Just because it's proof for you doesn't mean it actually makes even the tiniest modicum of sense for anybody else.

I mean, I could claim to know that you're actually a potato, and my proof is that you too exist on this forum, but that doesnt actually make any sense.

Look! I can copy and paste too! Answer my question.

So your proof is presence on this forum.

Just for you, yes, that is the proof.

How can we honestly determine if a person is a shill or troll without witch hunting. Also you can do that for yourself with Reddit enhancement suite. Though only you can see your tags.

You do realize that both towers were practically empty.

Yet thousands of people died.

As well, both had very large periods or power down in the days leading up to the staged event.

The problem isn't the time needed to install the explosives, but the fact that they are impossible to conceal. One person in the building for a few minutes would likely detect the explosives, let alone thousands of workers.

Do not waste time with this debunker, he doesn't care at all about what you say, he will ignore everything and continue throwing his blind belief.

Just as an example of how biased he is, in his next reply he continues insisting that explosives are impossible to conceal and that one person in the building for 30 seconds would detect the explosives.

This is not the mind of a person interested in having reasonable discussions, this is the mind like a child that has his ears covered and spits the nonsense fantasies that he believes to be possible without a shred of common sense. It's borderline pathetic.