You should familiarize yourself with Mockingbird, COINTELPRO and others. Many of these are people who are not CT's just trying to make us look bad. Just like Bi-Polarbear who used to post anti-Semitic crap and brigade it up to make us look bad.

The best way to attack in the information age is not to oppose the target group, it is to pretend to be one of the target group and then spout crazyness thus heaping ridicule on them and making anything else they say suspect.

That being said, some of it is probably young, new or paranoid posters.

Considering the term "conspiracy theorists" is the CIA's doing makes sense.

More familiar with the UFO phenomenon, I often see hoaxes made by "skeptics" that start proclaiming their shit as if it is something special.
They do it to try to discredit the real witnesses, because most think that these witnesses did the same thing. They also try to discourage any people that are interested. The only way people are still "believers", is because these people are witnesses themselves or have trusted relationships with the witnesses.

Do you have ANY evidence that the majority (as you imply) of posts that make CTs look bad are by people who want to discredit CTs, or are you just blurting it out like a fact because it fits your world view?

Shill Shill Shill Shill Shill Shill Shill Shill Shill Shill Shill

You have no idea what you are talking about

And thats what you see when you try to have a conversation about some of the more fringe conspiracies. I enjoy alternative news, I enjoy debating conspiracies debating being the main word. I feel like many users here consider someone challenging their ideas as shill behavior when its for clarification or simply to have a debate on the subject.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but as a veteran of this site it is easy to tell the difference between someone who is just disagreeing with you, vs someone who is blindly advocating a position, while trying to pretend they are not blindly advocating a position.

*called an appeal-to-authority-fallacy penalty on myself, with the help of the below commenter.

I don't want to say I'm a veteran yet but I believe that it's also pretty dang easy to tell. Some people have better bullshit detectors than others. There are legitimate skeptics, there are conspiratard trolls, and then there are people I'd think to be somewhat shills. If not shills, they're trolls that hide themselves better. Regardless, with much of RES's help, determining a user's intentions isn't too difficult.

Judge each one individually

Don't worry lucy, we each judge you individually. I just really hope you get the help you need.

Nice to know you care Shillfred

If someone is going to judge an entire community based on the actions of a few members they are not worth your time.

That being said, these types of conspiracy theories do hurt the image of the community in people's eyes. This is why people from conspiratard are constantly posting articles here that they think are silly. Look at the two submissions this morning about the school stabbing. These are not real conspiracy community members, they are trying to make the sub look bad.

Yeah thats what made me think of it, i love to hear logical arguments about what could possibly be the truth, and whether or not we should look into something, but when we get some people that just post utter bullshit, i think it makes us look bad in the eyes of a lot of people and they are less willing to discuss and conversate with the community based on a small minority of nut jobs

I agree with you, completly. You cannot really have a good discussion here most of the time. You try to talk some sense and tell people to maybe not jump to the first conclusion they pull out of their bum, and they scream at you, shill/troll/idiot.

The worst part is these guys are not the vocal minority here.

Hence, why it is now against the rules of the sub to make "shill" accusations.

If you wish to discuss the existence of actual shills, JTRIG and what have you, that's fine.

Arbitrarily accusing other users of being a "shill" solely to discredit them is counterproductive, at best. At worst, it has caused innocent users to be harassed as a result.

I'd just caution you to be careful about what you post here. Try to avoid posting any information that could help someone identify or locate you. Most people here are good, smart people with a healthy interest in their rights and the elite who work to against those rights. However, there are also a small handful of very specific individuals who could pose a genuine danger to you if you were to get mixed up with them in real life. Best to stay off their radar.

Thats just it though. The people who don't want constructive discussion about conspiracies to take place have realized this flaw and are using it to discredit us.

I like to think of conspiracies as islands in an ocean. We have to navigate them with boats built for turbulent waters other wise we will not stay afloat. If we are too ridged in our thinking and hold our opinions too closely we are helpless to the strong winds and high waters.

The islands are all different on the suface, but underneath connect to the same continent, and this is where the root of the issue is. A lot of people don't put the pieces all together and treat each conspiracy as a small isolated incident.

*Elaborate surveillance grid covering the globe with the resources and capability to monitor any human being on the planet. *Pedophile and sex trafficking rings interwoven with the top of the societal pyramid.

Those two things should not coexist unless the are directly linked.

Edit: Some words

Edit this while you are at it :)

with they top of the societal pyramid.

Woops, thanks!

Define "extreme conspiracy".

Where do you draw the line? I think anyone who thinks sandy hook was a hoax or false flag is extreme.

I guess by extreme, i mean people who without any basis or any evidence scream conspiracy about anything. Like the Peaches Geldoff thread, i mean why would that be a conspiracy? Who would want her dead?

I prefer to look at the evidence first, and then say "hey wait a second that doesnt add up". But the "extreme" ones automatically call conspiracy based on their opinions of the government and then try to find minor discrepancies and use it as evidence

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They have a long history of mental illness. It's probably best to not engage them at all, as they show signs of being a little unstable. This is not the sort of person you'd want to get hold of your personal information.

If you are going to make insulting comments about me which are both offensive and entirely false, then do it to my face, not in some weasel comment to another user. Thanks.

First, I never mentioned you by name. Second, stay away from me and my family. If I see you lurking around my home or place of business, I will not hesitate to engage in a perfectly legal means of self-defense.

Just stay away from me. I don't want anything to do with you.

What the fuck did I just read!? You need help.

[deleted]

Please refrain from attacking other users. Further violations may result in a ban.

The post states the death was "suspicious." This is not screaming or calling it a "conspiracy." They are clearly looking to analyze it more in a skeptical manner.

Why would you immediately rule it not a conspiracy before you've heard the details?

I guess by extreme, i mean people who without any basis or any evidence scream conspiracy about anything. Like the Peaches Geldoff thread, i mean why would that be a conspiracy? Who would want her dead?

This is a story I posted and it is not "extreme" by any definition of the term.

A young person has died whilst apparently alone in a house for reasons unknown. The post-mortem was inconclusive, so they are waiting on toxicology, but we can almost certainly rule out both suicide and drugs, as I've explained in that thread.

This leaves "natural causes" and foul play. Again, I've explained in the thread why foul play should not be ruled out.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/22lw93/police_rush_to_declare_peaches_geldofs_sudden/

I am speculating, as I often do, but it is extrapolated on circumstantial evidence, and my hypothesis is plausible.

Nobody is forcing you to read posts in this subreddit.

Why can you almost certainly rule out drugs or suicide? Please tell me?

Here's a suggestion. Why don't you actually read the other comments in that post?

I have done, all ive seen is a link to a report that said the friends insisted she wasn't using drugs and they found no paraphernalia.

There are many many drugs that you dont need any paraphernalia for and still doesnt rule out anything as the family could of got rid of any to protect her reputation as well.

Your opinion is baseless and misinformed, the "pedophiles" she tweeted about were 2 young mothers that let the charged pedophile who is in prison rape their babies. They were merely 2 fucked up fans that did a fucked up and disgusting thing, they weren't high ranking officials of the government that would have had her killed. Yeah the death is suspicious, but any death of a young person would be met with questions. Theres no toxicology report and nothing more than the police's official stance on the matter.

Yeah the death is suspicious,

Yes, that what's my post title suggests I think. You make it seem like I'm claiming she was murdered by lizards on pogo sticks.

but any death of a young person would be met with questions.

Of course, but Peaches is not an ordinary person. Her background, her links to the OTO, a cult associated with ritual child abuse, suggest she could know some very unpleasant individuals.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2599517/From-Scientology-libertine-cult-Ordo-Templi-Orientis-OTO-How-Peaches-obsessed-occult-spiritual-study.html

The fact that she outed the two women who allowed Watkins to rape their babies might have made some other people nervous.

I am not making any claims - just setting out some arguments as to why the police saying that her death is "non-suspicious" is premature. They clearly have no idea how she died.

When your government will lie to the public about the reasons and rationale for waging wars, what wouldn't they lie about?

If you have any evidence to support your "extreme" theory that Adam Lanza killed anyone, I'd be happy to see it.

Those who demand evidence arent extremists. those who are easily lead by those playing to their prejudices are the extremists. Lets face it, you noticed Adam Lanza has big bug eyes and he "looks" crazy, so thats enough evidence for you. Case closed!

But there is a good chance many of these extreme (or shocking) conspiracies are true.

Sandy Hook very well could be a hoax and is totally worth pursuing.

No, no it's not. Sandy Hook Truthers are the best example of the real world danger presented by the extremists.

If u say so

I view the 'crazy' ones as just another viewpoint. I will only take seriously, the ones that resonate with me, or are well sourced. It doesn't bother me to see people cry conspiracy on everything, as long as it's not always hitting the front page. When you first "wake up" it seems like you fall for more of the BS. Also, there are people that post shit to make this sub look bad..... they have to overcompensate for their own shortcomings so they chose to rag on us to make themselves feel better.

You must be a zionist reptilian.

Its sad to see how the movement has developed over recent years.

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Marketing is a form of conspiracy though--it's trying to subtly influence people and often in secretive or manipulative or exploitative ways. Also, much of the psychological lessons learned by marketers is used by the elite beyond just selling products . . . like going to war. I think it's totally within the realm of appropriate discussion here.

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Just offer them for sale and offer factual information about the product at the location of sale.

I don't need to be manipulated with messages embedded in my entertainment and when out on the street to purchase things . . . or be told we need to live a consumption based lifestyle to be happy.

The way diamond rings were marketed to Americans is a perfect example. This didn't used to be a custom yet industry crafted very effective messages to push Americans into this custom. Same with female smoking (Edward Bernays' campaign).

Kids are especially vulernable. It's amazing how kids pick up on commercials and these are not simply conveying what the product is they are "hooking" the kids. Think of the way candy is displayed at the checkout to get kids (and adults) to engage in impulse buying.

Think of the huge amount of money spent on how grocery stores are laid out.

Television programming also subtly pushes products (the character drinks a coke). And then there is the deceptive viral or social media marketing campaigns that make it seem like these are ground up fan bases for products when really they are top down marketing campaigns. See Frontline's good segment on this: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/generation-like/

There is all sorts of explicit and subtle manipulation going on. Not to mention other deceit. Like changing the packaging size to get us to spend more (a la Mr. Rooney's complaints). Or planned obsolescence (like the lightbulb conspiracy).

Marketing is a very manipulative field.

You're completely right about marketing being manipulative, it is arguably the most manipulative market today, but i think when it comes down to breakfast cereal being the subject discussed, its hard to find the evil conspiracy involved. I think if there was more quality discussion and less illogical and imagined conspiracies, we would have a much better chance at promoting good discussions with a wider variety of people. As it stands now we have a small minority perpetuating a stigma of "crazy conspiracy theorists" and in my opinion that is really damaging

You are making yourself look stupid with this post AND with your classification of yourself as a "Conspiracy Theorist"

Look at the facts, source check, ignore the bullshit.

Your a good one to tell somebody to ignore the bullshit

wat?

Somali piracy interests me, I just saw that philips movie and I posted some shit I found. you just linked to the entire thread, I have no idea what you are trying to say.

You can do a lot better than that if you want to find "bullshit" on me brah, even with the short time ive had this account

/r/mildconspiracy

stick around youll start sounding crazier by the day! i started of as a causal news nerd and now i notice everything, see what ur missing is a long history of conspiracies that tie together, and when u find that tentacle my friend, ull wait days to built up the courage to sound crazy in front of us. Enjoy

Im always confused when someone says we think "everything" is a conspiracy, when that statement is just a sweeping generalization that nobody makes except those complaining about others doing it, even when there is no evidence to support their complaints.

Are their conspiracy nut jobs on here? Yes

Do they make /r/conspiracy look bad? Apparently not to 225,602 subscribers

It is a forum for free thinkers no matter how screwy the topic might be. Get over it on what the world thinks. If your concerned with such. We'll then you are in the wrong subreddit

What did you expect?

Some of the really crazy posts are just assholes loony-baiting. Or possibly part of an actual conspiracy to manipulate our community into discrediting ourselves or chaffing the discussion here to prevent any coherent dialogue.

All three. It also dilutes the new queue, making it hard to see the difference between good posts and shit ones and making it easier to bury certain threads while escaping notice (because there are so many).

In short, whenever you see a post like "r/worldnews censors/removes my comment about ____" then yes, you can presume that conspiratards have ruined it for us.

sometimes outsiders make sarcasm to mock us.

weak theory is acceptable but should be presented with enough explanation of the reason and without expression of certainty.

It usually is. It's usually people that preface it by saying "I saw a weird event and wondered . . . I'm not sure though. What do you think?"

But then we get posts like the above that shame people from wondering. I prefer to have open minded discussions.

If you think a theory is unlikely then say so. No need to shame someone.

i am conspiracy theorist too. what i meant is when some one post some extreme conspiracy theories.

Humans are social animals. Society is an organism made up of levels and levels of other organisms. I tend to think the majority of events and their protrayal involve "conspiracy" of one type or another. Accidents happen, but when they do, nobody wants to take the blame. Hence, just about EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.

So yes, I am working from that fundamental understanding of human nature. People and systems are stronger in numbers and people have the ability to plan ahead and thus work from an agenda. Now when we bring economics into it, there is a pretty defined agenda. So I take that premise and work backwards, yes. Not everything HAS to be a conspiracy, but there's a good chance it is. Test the official story and see if it works out. Often it does not. Then look for the context this event happened in. History isn't a vacuum.

The issue is when people start making extreme leaps to form connections that probably don't exist, and when the conclusion we're working backwards from isn't just "I think there might be a conspiracy here", but, "I think Aliens did it".

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That's actually the prevailing psychological theory about "conspiracy theorists" which tries to portray it as a disease.

Conspiracy Theorists are just projecting!

No... Conspiracy theorists understand the complexities of human nature.

This. I've been lurking here for years and years. Used to comment under another name, but left. Wild bullshit is a big problem here, almost as big as shilling from people that deny/disrupt/discredit the legit posters.

Honestly if I was a shill, I think it would be easier to go in and stir up bullshit about random/outlandish theories and get others to upvote them to poison the well. To a large extent I think this has already happened here.

A big problem is also stupid reddit infighting. Reporting on censorship is good, essential even, but calling out random reddit users? Crybaby posts about your own account? Self-centered conspiracies? This shit plagues this board and is one reason I think it lost its energy.

What it takes is FACT BASED SOURCED AND WELL WRITTEN pieces that are convincing to people. Usually if it involves you directly, or directly involves someone you don't like, and it doesn't illuminate a wider angle or system, it isn't worth posting. Sadly most of what we get now is naval gazing.

Considering the powers that be are masters of media and repetition, naval gazing is tantamount to hari-kari in terms of getting anything done. There's SO MUCH SHIT going on these days it's almost overwhelming. I think we all just need to pick a topic, figure out a way to express, get smart on it, and start talking about shit that matters. That's how you solve this problem.

People who just wake up late in life, or get way too invested in conspiracies are ignoring sure. But My dad has been talking about false flags since the 90's. So I grew up in this shit, I see 90% of conspiracies either as entertainment or "anything is possible" with 10% of the theories being the really important true shit.

[deleted]

Disagree. If I'm going to name one group that are disinformation people it would be the David Icke conspiracies. I don't want to silence these people though.

The anti Zioinst stuff is not disinformation . . . if anything the disinformation is the idea that stuff is planted here to make people look bad.

Edit: I mean anti Jewish stuff has been planted in a few instance, as has been well publicized. But the vast majority of anti Zionist expression here is sincere.

The only person who can make you look stupid is You! And, in the grand scheme of things, no one knows anything. So everyone is stupid, look at the state of the planet..

Yes or its purposely being done to discredit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHaFqYZf60g

It's discussed in that video but the method is basically say you are X label, I'm a CONSPIRACY THEORIST and then spout nonsense thus discrediting the label you fall under.

I'm Alex Jones, I'm a conspiracy theorist, I believe 9/11 was an inside job, also Juice boxes make kids gay

If anyone watched Brian Dunning (calls himself a skeptic) on the Joe Rogan podcast, it wasn't purposely done but Dunning made skeptics look bad by calling himself a skeptic then poorly arguing points, making things up, and saying people should have faith in science instead of looking at evidence.

or you don't even have to say you are x label, just say something associated with the label

9/11 was an inside job - person now thinks, okay, this guy is a conspiracy theorist, and then say lizard people or bigfoot or just mention alex jones and you've done your part in helping to discredit the word conspiracy and phrase conspiracy theorist which has been redefined as impossible or crazy talk.

even former CIA chief Dewey Clariag admits there has never been a conspiracy in this country

Calling everything a false flag is annoying because when one really happens like in the Turkey/Syria situation it's lost in the noise despite credible proof.

It is far more likely that you and your ilk work hard to discredit conspiracy theories.

Yeah im a government shill, sent here to discredit you O_o

Paid much for doing such a poor job?

Most of what's posted here (if you look at the 'hot' section) is basically alternative or mainstream news regarding topics conspiratorial in nature.

Some other, "fringe" posts can indeed be controversial, but I see no harm with allowing others to speculate on current events.

Why should people here censor themselves solely to appease the perception of others, who would mock them regardless of what they say or do?

What you're advocating is censorship. Again, I see nothing wrong others who choose to speculate on alleged conspiracies or the possibility of a conspiracy underlying a current event, no matter how remote a possibility. If you're only concerned with "how it makes us look" because some speculation doesn't fit your narrative, perhaps you should find another sub.

Are extreme conspiracy theorists making the rest of us look stupid?

Alex Jones explains it, then promotes it single-handedly

Yes it does, and it discredits the REAL conspiracy theories.

Alex Jones and Dahboo7 are perfect examples ot these "exteme conspiracy theorists".

No. I agree a large number of threads are bullshit, or at least I think they are bullshit, but what do I know. There's always people who believe more far-out stuff than another guy, and people who won't believe anything even with all the evidence in the world staring them in the face. It doesn't really matter.

Personally, I don't think we can possibly know what is actual truth. It's all going to be colored through the lens of our own minds. Truth is something you approach, not something you arrive at. Even knowing the broad facts of what occurred, there's still more steps to take like why did this guy do this thing, and why did that guy do that thing.

Take the Apollo program, which is a conspiracy theory sure to bring up the hackles of 100,000+ subscribers to this subreddit. I don't know whether we went or not, but I think it's impossible for us to go today. Does that make me crazy, and do I make you look bad for thinking this? My worldview allows me to hold this thought in my head where other people would decide this is evidence of insanity.

You know they say eyewitness testimony is unreliable because one guy will see a green jacket while two others saw a red jacket. That guy was there and he saw what he saw. Compare the people and they see the different colors when you show them red and green. Maybe it was green when he saw it. That's the simplest explanation, it just doesn't fit into what we think we know about reality.

I know I don't know shit about the nature of reality. I also know nobody else knows shit about it either.

Yes they are, and they do not get it (although the people posing as extremists and fear mongers know exactly what they are doing). A typical example: Think aliens exist? Great! Guess what, you wont ever find out until we replace our government/industry system with one that is far more open. Focus on the things that matter, change them and the rest will become far clearer.

There are always people on the extreme. There are always people who will think you're stupid. It also doesn't help that some of the regular conspiracies would be devastating if they were proven beyond a doubt to the general majority.

All that matters is that the best and brightest of us do our research and know what we're talking about.

i see so many nut jobs screaming conspiracy about absolutely anything and everything, it seems as soon as something is on the news someone has to automatically assume there is a conspiracy behind it and it isnt as it seems.

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

yet another ignorant skeptard demanding we provide "evidence" for our speculations and opinions.

this is not a court of law.

[deleted]

Please refrain from attacking other users. Further violations may result in a ban.

This is exactly the kind of thing we are talking about.

yet another ignorant skeptard demanding we provide "evidence" for our speculations and opinions

Speculations and opinions presented as fact.

now you are speculating

This is the first time Ive heard the term "extreme conspiracy theorists". Is this something new or is this another attempt at trying shed stupid light to make conspiracy thoughts look evil.

This sub points out facts that people can research on their own. Do the research. Fact check and then come back to ask questions.

I have a theory about 9-11 conspiracies, which I'll repeat here because it's relevant to your topic.

It's my belief that the more extreme 9-11 theories (such as the theory that the buildings were brought down by planted demolition charges) have been seeded throughout the Internet to turn attention away from Israel's involvement in the 9-11 terrorist attacks. The more crazy 9-11 theories, the less time is spent talking about the plausible theories, such the theory that Israel had foreknowledge of the attacks and failed to warn the US government.

You've created another account? Why do you need four accounts if you tend to post in the same subreddits?

There's a lot more evidence implicating Saudi Arabia. It's interesting that you defaulted to the Israelis as your main suspect.

It's way more likely that there is/was more Saudi involvement (maybe even direct from their intelligence agencies) in 9/11. I'm not even sure what would have happened if invaded Saudi Arabia instead of Afghanistan.

I thinks thats very highly plausible, it honestly would not suprise me at all if that were to be the case. We know the government has done things like this before, misdirection is the magicians best trick

That said, I believe those three buildings would not have collapsed the way they did without demolition /cutting charges being involved.

Just offer them for sale and offer factual information about the product at the location of sale.

I don't need to be manipulated with messages embedded in my entertainment and when out on the street to purchase things . . . or be told we need to live a consumption based lifestyle to be happy.

The way diamond rings were marketed to Americans is a perfect example. This didn't used to be a custom yet industry crafted very effective messages to push Americans into this custom. Same with female smoking (Edward Bernays' campaign).

Kids are especially vulernable. It's amazing how kids pick up on commercials and these are not simply conveying what the product is they are "hooking" the kids. Think of the way candy is displayed at the checkout to get kids (and adults) to engage in impulse buying.

Think of the huge amount of money spent on how grocery stores are laid out.

Television programming also subtly pushes products (the character drinks a coke). And then there is the deceptive viral or social media marketing campaigns that make it seem like these are ground up fan bases for products when really they are top down marketing campaigns. See Frontline's good segment on this: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/generation-like/

There is all sorts of explicit and subtle manipulation going on. Not to mention other deceit. Like changing the packaging size to get us to spend more (a la Mr. Rooney's complaints). Or planned obsolescence (like the lightbulb conspiracy).

Marketing is a very manipulative field.