The only sure way to speak freely is to meet face to face.

If you can't do that, then there will always be someone watching.

I understand your frustration, I too am frustrated by the amount of censorship and shills and people saying shit to steer a conversation in the wrong direction and pit us against each other as opposed to talking about the subject at hand.

But what else is there to do? The day that reddit gets shut down or changes its posting policy is the day we know we struck a chord. Until then, all we can do is keep focus and not get distracted by those that try to muddy these waters.

At the end of the day, them knowing that we know will never be a concern unless we do it right in their fucking faces. And if they shut this platform down, it will be all the more evidence that we are digging in the right place.

Speaking is overrated and history has shown that more a often than not, talking goes ignored by the majority, and if not ignored, the extreme opposite 'taken out'.

Time for talking is over, actions speak louder. They have made move after move to destroy, or just coincidentally, fuck up the United States.

Professional accidents are going to be the only way to fix this country, since voting is a corrupted and tightly controlled platform.

Authority by reason is the solution, not authority by force. Even if you think you need to use force to help the situation, you only recreate the same problem if you don't have an idea of how to live peacefully in the future.

Destroying things is often much simpler than creating things.

So why are you on reddit if you prefer more radical routes?

Go everywhere!

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In spite of all the censorship I continue to learn on this site. In spite of all the censorship we are, more and more, able to track it. In spite of all the censorship, we are still able to open people's eyes and awaken them to the dangers we are facing. In spite of their many attempts, they have not yet rendered this site useless.

came here to say this

if, or when, the land is barren we move to new pastures

Exactly. If I was in power I would want to destroy this sub as people are stronger when sharing ideas and discussing issues. I've noticed over the last 12 months a consistent effort by come commentators to rubbish this sub and encourage people to 'go elsewhere' "do other things". It's suspicious as why would anyone go to the trouble of commenting here if they hated this sub or thought using the sub was a waste of time?

[deleted]

I enjoy optimism but your traffic only strengthens their abilities and enriches the ones in control. It may be that you side with them on many issues, it may mean less to you if that is the case.

Did you know that when you place the word "but" or "however" in a sentence, you effectively nullify what preceded it? That said, your testament of enjoying optimism rings hollow. As for the agreement? Let's talk about the latest big thing I found on Reddit, the Cliven Bundy Ranch episode. Clearly, Reddit (i.e.: the pro status quo establishment sect) is against this guy....yet I still managed to hear about it and was able to discern the reality vs the spin.

To me, there is still a utility to be found here....but you are of course free to feel otherwise.

I have started to right click title posts, copying link location and pasting in a browser tab instead of direct linking and crediting reddit for incoming traffic to said sites.

Always a good idea. Titles don't always match the article and a lot of it is obvious click bait.

[deleted]

Peddling bullshit will always be it's own weakness, no matter how they attempt to repackage it.

[deleted]

You don't have to.

So why are you even here?

Why are you here if you hate it so much and why are you not actually doing something then?

I think the best we can do is talk or better yet debate. Though it seems to be getting harder and harder to do these days. If you bring up anything that disagrees with the cultural norm you're dismissed as a "crazy conspiracy theorist" and people develop negative attitudes towards anything you say from that point on. Its almost as if they don't think you have the right to disagree. Its discerning but I think above all you can't lose hope that there are people who are open to discussion

People are afraid that they haven't been told the truth. Greater yet they fear that they were wrong in the past and that people have died with their co-signature that could have lived. They fear that the people who wish us harm have legitimate reason for those feelings. Instead of openly acknowledging that out government has lied and man continue to lie they'd rather continue on the path we're being lead down and bury the doubt along the way because, for now, it is comfortable.

Dunno. What are you going to do, OP?

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How are you ever going to change the world from the reddit platform, a platform that censors the very name of it's creator and the names and acronyms of the tyrants you would stand against?

Ok lets see.. Is that a question?

How are you ever going to change the world [...]

So are you being rhetorical then? Why even post if you're not actually looking for advice on the scenario you posed in your question? Are you even looking for replies?

What is the purpose of this posting?

information gathering tactics fail

It failed because you still have yet to answer my question. Nice try? What do you mean? Defensive? Yeah, when OP is a total fag and posting meaningless drivel that's not answered, I get slightly annoyed in that I even bothered commenting instead of moving on. It's exacerbated by the lack of response.

Nothing can be done to reddit by the users except perpetuate the honey pot. The only thing that will change reddit is to not use reddit. Go somewhere else. Use another form of organizing and communications; however we all know its futile because all electronic data is held somewhere, somehow, and able to be seen by someone that you probably didn't intentionally want it to be seen by. What do you do then? Encrypt all data? Maybe between two points that would work, but for a site like reddit? Nah. Its more or less a billboard in Times Square that we all post to.

[deleted]

Ahh i see now. This is some sort of altruistic attempt at getting fellow redditors here to question within themselves to see what needs to happen next.

Only you detect rage - I have not raged at all. Merely asking a question as to what your idea was. But that's not allowed, then?

And obviously the joke of "ops a fag" is lost on you. It's not always an insult, ya know. <Sigh> Internet noobs.

EDIT: if you haven't yet, you should check out /r/undelete

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You _, however I _. But you ____ when I said __. Your __ is baffling.

This kind of conversation deviates from the real point.

Here's the thing, if you leave, millions will stay.

So you have a choice between contributing to your voice, or the conversation continues without you.

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Rule 1 of trying to change the world: Get thicker skin.

Easy, start your own version. They're allowed to do whatever they want. It's not like we're paying them.

Being dependant on someone/something else will limit your results in any endeavor.

What would you suggest? Cower in fear (which is the ultimate goal of censorship/thought police/JTRIG/etc.) and run away with our tails between our legs?

There are a lot of minds at stake on this website. If there weren't and it made no difference, then why would shills/censorship exist at all? If anything, seeing all of the obvious censorship just pisses me off more and makes me more resolute and fearless in speaking my mind.

As for the data compilation bit? Fuck 'em. They see our browsing habits anyway whether we're on reddit or not, what's the difference? Unless you just throw your computer out and avoid the internet entirely.

[deleted]

Interesting ideas to think about. I would re-iterate, though, that the censorship/misinfo/derailing has been getting worse in recent weeks/months which leads me to believe that this site and some of the users on it are making a difference in some way. What happens when the rest of reddit at large realizes how widespread the censorship has become? Do they just start banning everyone and deleting entire subs? How obvious would the censorship become then?

As for the compilation of data part: like I said before, they already have all the info on us they'll ever need. If we're on a computer, we're being monitored. What does leaving this site do if I'm just going to start using another one and saying the same things and being monitored just as absolutely? I still learn things from this site daily - it isn't as one-sided as you're making it (at least not in my opinion).

I can see the liars lying in real time, see the lies they tell, see the deceptions and spin they try to put on things, see the censorship as it happens, see the specific topics that receive more attention, see the specific topics that receive no attention, etc., etc.

I know who my enemy is - I'd rather engage them here where there are still other minds at stake than leave for some other, mythical platform that doesn't currently exist.

I can see where you're coming from though - I just don't know what you're suggesting. If I want to fight censorship, I go where the censorship is occurring. At least that's how I see it.

[deleted]

I think we're coming at this from two slightly different angles though I do agree with your core points. I'll attempt to elaborate.

If they do see the corruption, they will align with it because they already align with reddits left of center ideology. They will not break a sweat when oppositional posters or sources are removed from their sphere. They've been exposed already, no one does anything.

You're dead on with this and I'm very much of the belief that you can't make anyone learn what's actually going on not just on this site but in the world at large. That's something each person has to decide to research and seek out on their own. However, I speak from personal experience when I say that this site does open (or at least has opened) many peoples' eyes to things. What happens to reddit when posters like you and I disappear? What happens when there isn't anyone here pointing out the censorship? That, to me, is when we truly get into some 1984 territory where everyone just worships Big Brother and there is no dissenting opinion anywhere, at all.

The more info they have, the better they can counter before you act. This is how they stay ahead of you, you are defeated before you construct a defense.

You're right on this, also - but what's my alternative? I have a life, a job, an apartment, bills, friends and family who are still "in the bubble", etc. So what's my move? I don't have one, anyone who would care to monitor me knows I don't have one - so fuck them. If I have to exist "inside the bubble", I'm going to educate myself as much as I can and try to inform and interact with others. As it stands, I still learn things from reddit - hell, I'm learning just from this conversation we're having.

The tactic of standing in and absorbing blows is not a solid one.

This goes back to my previous point - if I'm not here absorbing the blows, then no punches even need to be thrown. And that's an even scarier thought to me.

if you were, you would not be trying to convince me to keep my web traffic on reddit.

I'm not really trying to convince you of that - I just think this site is already over-run enough without losing more sane, actually human users. I agree with your point of attacking their wallet but what of the idea of using their own platform against them? Enough of the userbase of reddit waking up to the bullshit and taking the site back for themselves. Is that even possible? I don't know.

You can't name it and it's liable to change with new information.

Truth, freedom, love, life, justice, equality - that's what I stand for. Anyone who is against those things is my enemy, regardless of what they call themselves.

There are a lot of minds at stake on this website.

The point is that the platform is corrupted. If something comes about where communication is crucial (another Occupy, for example) we'll be kicking ourselves for not having a truly open platform established. Now is the time to implement the open source code, brand it right, and get users.

It's going to take the right person or group of people getting fed up enough with reddit's bullshit. The userbase is already really pissed. I think it's a matter of time before a challenger appears.

Don't even need new technology. Just fix how moderation works and pledge support for free speech.

Now is the time to implement the open source code, brand it right, and get users.

I agree with you here. I don't have the skills to do that however, so I go where the people are/information is (which despite all of the censorship on this site, there is still a lot of healthy discussion and good information posted here).

Don't even need new technology. Just fix how moderation works and pledge support for free speech.

I agree with you here - more control over moderation from the userbase and also something to mitigate botting/downvote brigading would go a long way as well.

Maybe something requiring you to comment in order to downvote or something that shows the usernames of those who downvote. Not sure - I'm sure collaboratively we could come up with ideas that would work.

theres 7 billion , vs what, 20,000 people?

In what context? You mean 20,000 people who are "running things"? I'd say the number of those who have "true" power is far less than that but that those in their influence ("doing their bidding" if you'd rather) is far more than that.

200 richest families?

and their servants, employees and dupes

If they read what I type, they can't unread it. If my ideas are valid, a person will be forced to abandon reason or agree with me.

What's right or correct is objective, if you ask me. A good idea stands on it's own merit.

Speak on ideas that you would want everyone to hear. An example would be practical and beneficial solutions for the future.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a chart you can look up, it organizes the general needs of life into an order of priorities, the first things that have to be addressed is the physiological needs, the most urgent physiological need is to avoid exposure. So, people need housing, then food and water and various other things to be healthy. Community gardening, and people cooperating with each other in good will and good faith is a good solution, but I bet it's not the only one.

Ideas are the most dangerous and helpful thing there is. Keep thinking and expressing yourself and cooperating with others as best you can.

I hope hundreds of spies take a gander at what I'm talking about, I only want good things for people collectively. I'm not so pessimistic to believe that the human race can't even feed itself or not harm itself.

http://influenceexplorer.com/organization/advance-publications-inc/af32309a08884c149effd39f62d93d44

I agree that reddit has its downsides, what with the whole site being switched hands after the creator committed suicide. I also believe it has its upsides, its a nice collective (usually) that thinks/feels in a similar way that I do about the current state of affairs. Its an information gathering site for both sides, making it a double edged sword. Take that as you will. I do enjoy a good pondering, though, so I'm not flaming your thread. Everyone smile for big brother. He's watching, you know.

Frankly, nobody will do shit until the levy breaks. We can't rewind our situation as a nation. Historically, this is the life cycle of democracy and capitalism; we're on the back end of it. There is no amount of debate or "told ya so's" that can change the direction we're moving. That said, things will change all in their own time, the question is, are you going to be prepared for it?

In truth, any system of governance with the monetary system at its' foundation is subject to an inevitable expiration from internal decay.

That's not the way Reddit works, actually. This entire site is based on "censorship" if you consider that censorship is just controlling what kind of content is allowed on certain subreddits and what is not. Every subreddit has mods refereeing to ensure the content is following the rules. If you don't like what the mods are doing on a subreddit, go make your own. That's the beauty - this is not a "Big Brother" issue at all. The site is user-generated so stop bitching and make it what you want it to be.

Reddit is entertainment.

Go to the library and read up, filter the bs online, and continue to discuss and debate ideas with others, maybe even with your representative, if they do stuff like that. That is the way forward.

I don't understand what you're trying to say

The more censorship the more questions people will ask

Agreed.

I was just today wondering how and why /r/Conspiracy is even allowed to exist.

Who says we're going to change the world from Reddit? Only an idiot would think that.

How are you ever going to change the world from the reddit platform, a platform that censors the very name of it's creator and the names and acronyms of the tyrants you would stand against?

Ok lets see.. Is that a question?

How are you ever going to change the world [...]

So are you being rhetorical then? Why even post if you're not actually looking for advice on the scenario you posed in your question? Are you even looking for replies?

What is the purpose of this posting?

information gathering tactics fail

It failed because you still have yet to answer my question. Nice try? What do you mean? Defensive? Yeah, when OP is a total fag and posting meaningless drivel that's not answered, I get slightly annoyed in that I even bothered commenting instead of moving on. It's exacerbated by the lack of response.

Nothing can be done to reddit by the users except perpetuate the honey pot. The only thing that will change reddit is to not use reddit. Go somewhere else. Use another form of organizing and communications; however we all know its futile because all electronic data is held somewhere, somehow, and able to be seen by someone that you probably didn't intentionally want it to be seen by. What do you do then? Encrypt all data? Maybe between two points that would work, but for a site like reddit? Nah. Its more or less a billboard in Times Square that we all post to.