[deleted]

Admittedly, there are a few users here who are.

Yes. Detractors, misinformers, disinformers, likely government contractors, bots, shell accounts from projects like JTRIG, etc..

I mean, the very fact in-and-of-itself that JTRIG even exists, to me, discounts the honesty of the entire systems of FaceBook, Reddit, and most other social media outlets.

What would be the benefit of spending time and money to shout into an echo chamber, just to get downvoted? No offense, but if I were a conspiracy planner I'd consider hanging around talking to you guys to be the utmost waste of my time.

So why do you spend so much time here? As an antagonist of conspiracy theorists, what is your goal?

Today's a slow day at work, so I have some time to kill on my phone. I find the logical leaps and bounds that happen in this subreddit to be fascinating, so I enjoy interacting to better understand what makes it all tick. Don't interpret it as malice, I'm sure you're all great people on the other side of the monitor.

Lose the act already. You post to conspiratard. Don't pretend to be open-minded to anything in this sub. You're purely an antagonist here.

I'm open minded to anything, but that's not what interests me about this sub. I find it to be an interesting place, full of dichotomy. If you feel I've antagonized you, I apologize. I will, however, continue to post here, as respectfully as possible, with or without your permission.

Don't care. Just calling you out for trolling, however you prefer to phrase it.

Cool, gotcha. Hope you feel better having that off your chest.

Sorry you had to deal with traubster, guys like him are so dead set in their beliefs you can't really help it; heck, if you were a troll I would find you quite well fed after such a discussion with him. Makes you wonder what his intentions are for engaging you ;)

People like that led me to create my new sub /r/conspiracycrossfire. It's a bridge I'm attempting to build between the two communities which I find are often disgusted with themselves. Beyond that, each sub tries to paint a caricature of the other, and I think a better mutual understanding couldn't possibly hurt.

Stop on by, I've only just started so it's almost entirely submissions by me over the past few days. Feel free to change that.

benefit of spending time and money

Remind me where the employees of GCHQ who would be involved in a program like JTRIG get their money from?

When you do not have to provide a product for a paying customer, only provide a reason for your existence, spending money that is not yours becomes very close to zero burden.

Still there's a finite amount of resources available to any project. I can certainly see the benefit of using the internet for PR, but I can't see what the possible benefit of paying people to chat with /r/conspiracy subscribers is. Especially when those viewpoints are just going to be downvoted anyway. If I were a conspiracy planner, I'd rather those resources be spent on catering, or something tangibly useful to the furthering of my conspiring. Not paying people to piss into the wind.

paying people to piss into the wind.

Meh, its a negligible cost really. If there exists apps that allow even 50 accounts to one agent, and you have a team of 20, that's 1000 random accounts assumed to be individual.

Even if that team assigned 5 people to reddit for whatever the reason, its still 250 accounts here able to detract, misinform, perhaps even mod a sub. Shit, you can go one step further and ask "why couldn't an admin account be 'compromised'?"

And why? Why? Well, that honestly is the $64,000 question. But they themselves state:

"TRIG's mission includes using "dirty tricks" to “destroy, deny, degrade [and] disrupt” enemies by “discrediting” them, planting misinformation and shutting down their communications.[2][3] Known as "Effects" operations, the work of JTRIG had become a "major part" of GCHQ's operations by 2010.[2] The slides also disclose the deployment of "honey traps" of a sexual nature by British intelligence agents.[2]"

Proof of shills: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bivings_Group

https://www.commondreams.org/views02/0514-03.htm

I think that part of it is that it's just an easy bandwagon to get on. Hey look these guys are crazy, everything they say is crazy let's all laugh at them!

The things we discuss take some critical thinking and setting aside pre-conceived notions which is very difficult for a lot of people. For most people it's easier to join in on the hatred than to actually try and understand what people here are doing.

You can see this all over reddit every day. There will be a topic that hits front page that claims something and all of a sudden you will see it repeated all over reddit. It becomes lore and everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

There is also the reverse problem of completely normal subscribers who try to contribute when they can to this sub and simply because they may disagree with a theory or two they get called a shill just for arguing differently. I thought this sub was about discussion of conspiracy THEORIES not getting pissy because someone disagrees. I too though will admit I've seen some people in other subs that are definitely paid shills and I've seen what I will call troll shills who do it for the upvotes. Reddit as a whole has both these problems.

Yeah I am starting to see this side of the sub more often. SH and Boston are two sacred subjects and if you even suggest that they might have been legit tragedies you get jumped on.

I personally don't think they were 100% legit but for example I have not seen a shred of legitimate evidence to suggest that the boston thing used actors. There are a lot of weird things you can point out in pictures but nothing that actually rises to the level of true evidence. This is a tough opinion to present on these boards without being attacked.

This is the problem with most skeptics though, they normally take the craziest portions of conspiracy theories and paint everyone with one broad stroke.

9/11 for example, i don't think it happened the way the official narrative says but i also don't think no planes hit the buildings. Yet, i'm painted as a "truther" by 99% of people and it's implied that i believe in every ridiculous theory ever presented.

I personally don't think they were 100% legit...

End of fucking story.

Agreed. We need to start coming together on what we can agree upon instead of fighting over what we don't.

Well thanks for understand...and thanks for not attacking me.

I personally don't think they were 100% legit but for example I have not seen a shred of legitimate evidence to suggest that the boston thing used actors.

If you have already done a few hours work on Boston this should seal it for you, if not... You may just be a Blue-pill.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34d_1398073030&safe_mode=off

Sandy Hook, well something stinks and stinks bad but saying exactly where the stink is coming from is not so easy. Thanks to the blatant all encompassing cover-up.

You may just be a Blue-pill.

This is the problem the OP was talking about. I think that video is fairly compelling but there is no smoking gun and nothing that can be considered hard evidence.

The "strap system" can be explained by the fact that many people were wearing lanyards that day and the first thing you're supposed to do when someone has an injury like that is apply a tourniquet.

Other things like the misapplication of the right prosthetic. You can google pictures of Jeff Bauman and see his right leg on that day and it looks fairly convincing. If it was not applied correctly I think you'd be able to see his stump.

On the other hand there are very few pictures of his right leg, almost every other picture shows his left leg clearly and the right is obscured in some way. To me this lends credence to the theory that he was an actor.

Hopefully you can see that people can be on the fence or even disagree with you without being shills or "blue-pills".

Why decide on something that you can't really know? We don't have all the data and it's foolish to make up your mind at this point.

Sandy Hook, well something stinks and stinks bad but saying exactly where the stink is coming from is not so easy. Thanks to the blatant all encompassing cover-up.

This is absolutely true and another reason why making up your mind on SH is a bad idea. There are so many redacted photos and videos that it's impossible to know what went on there that day. All I know is that I have not seen hard evidence that Adam Lanza was there that day.

when you have spent the time to know the bigger picture and know there is a photo of hoddy guy crouched near the spot before the bomb goes off holding a leg shaped bag... then another photo of him entering the scene with several premade straps on his head/neck....

the only id we have of "bauman" is from a facebook post....

Hopefully you can see that people can be on the fence or even disagree with you without being shills or "blue-pills".

it is irrefutable. believe your eyes or deny. if you or others have not done the work needed to know about the hoody crouch photo and the other photo with the straps on his head whose fault is that? it doesn't change the facts.

Sandy Hook is not possible to be 100% but Boston it absolutely is.

Sandy Hook there are just too many blanks. Still nothing wrong with theorising about what those blanks may contain.

and know there is a photo of hoddy guy crouched near the spot before the bomb goes off holding a leg shaped bag.

Got a link to that? I thought I'd seen everything on this topic but don't remember this.

Yeah this is almost become normal to see some of the extremists on here screaming shills. I've been called a shill so many times I just learned to let it go. Not worth my time.

I know the mods can't be everywhere but damn they honestly from my point of view don't really care if a well known submitter calls people shills. They just slap them on the wrist. I get called a shill all the freakin time and honestly it happens more than it doesn't from what I've seen. This is why I don't really like commenting here. I just go to some of the smaller more well maintained subs about conspiracies.

It's actually kinda funny. In this sub I'm called a shill a lot because I don't always agree with the posts. A lot of them I don't agree with and think they are pretty debunkable and if they are I comment on why I don't agree with the post. Inside this sub I get labeled a shill. However, the other day I was debating something in another sub with somebody and their "trump card" on me was saying: "This coming from a guy who vists /r/conspiracy." This was their way of saying that nothing I say is credible because I go on this sub. If he took the time to read my comments here he would see that I'm usually discrediting claims that are silly, but nevertheless just the fact that I comment here makes me seem not credible to people.

People don't understand the implication of shill. Shill is like a troll who is being paid. A shill or a troll isn't just someone who argues the other side, they are someone who argues the side that they don't actually believe.

For a troll they do it for the laughs, for a shill they would have some vested motive.

People need to settle down with the shill thing. I think most people here are either trolls or legitimately believe the stuff they are saying even if they haven't spent enough time studying the topic to make this evident.

I tend to believe that also. I think there are definitely people here trolling but some of the theories that I see people posting seem like they are so absurd nobody would really believe them. Someone around the anniversary of JFK's assassination posted a theory with a link about how the real shooter was actually Jackie Kennedy and she was a Russian spy. Anyone watching the video or who studied it at all could tell you this is ridiculous. This seemed to be a theory so that when somebody says "I don't believe the official JFK story" the person retorting could say "yeah you conspiracy theorists think it was the cia, or the mob, or jackie kennedy etc." and it makes all the "theories" look equally laughable even though they aren't. I do believe some theories are made up to discredit the entire community.

To summon these provocateurs, just mention Sandy Hook or the Boston Marathon along with actual plausible conspiracy theories (pharma coverup for former, FBI fuckup for latter).

It's like catnip to them, the same way saying vaccine GMO monsanto homeopathy magically summons the Skeptic Atheist Army of Doom (SAAD).

To summon these provocateurs, just mention Sandy Hook or the Boston Marathon

You're absolutely wrong about this and I resent the implication. If you don't know enough about Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombings to see they were hoaxes, fine, but if you want to tar those who have a better understanding than you do, as "provocateurs", then I have a problem with that.

You're absolutely entitled to have a problem with it.

There are a lot of suspect individuals who go out of their way to defend the LUDICROUS official narratives of Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombing, and I tag them all the same way, so welcome to the club.

Have you tried /r/conspiratard - that might be more your cup of tea?

You are proving OP's point. Because I think the conspiracy is more likely the FBI planned an op that went terribly wrong (not without precedent, see OK City, underwear bomber, etc), and not that hundreds of people contributed to a big stage set fake act as shown in explicit detail on YouTube, you think I belong in /r/conspiratard?

I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt (looked through my history, and saw I'd upvoted you a bunch in the past), but I guess I was wrong, thanks for getting that spidey-sense tingling with those DDDDs!

you think I belong in /r/conspiratard ?

You suggested that anybody who believes Sandy Hook or Boston were hoaxes are "provocateurs", so yes. If you want to fucking troll, go to /r/conspiratard and stay there.

Making no valid attempt to argue your point in a respectful way. Check.

Insulting intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you. Check.

Attempting to chill speech and disrupt discussion. Check.

Are you sure it's me who belongs there? It's like you borrowed their playbook.

Drivel.

You made a ridiculous accusation about people being "provocateurs" and you're just compounding the insult. You are a disgrace.

I didn't say that everyone who believed that was a provocateur. I said that provocateurs come out of the woodwork to attack you whenever you mention an alternate conspiracy theory. Et voila. Weird, didn't expect that to happen so quickly, but hey, thanks for proving a point.

Lame attempt at "re-imagining" your statement after the fact - the implication was crystal clear.

Don't take it personally. This guy is a real hothead. He's got some anger issues he needs to work through.

Oh, I'm not taking it personally, I was conducting an experiment that I didn't expect to yield fruit. This is fascinating stuff, here. Check out the downvotes, too.

Also, while I would like this sub not to be discredited so much, it's natural that people would feel threatened by it and do this -- but anyone who takes a few minutes to read will see past the propaganda if they have good sense.

I like posting here because there are good people here, good stories here, and a surprisingly low level of noise to signal, despite targeted attacks...and you know, you've got to accept and process every piece of information you can in order to get to the little nuggets of truth.

It all comes down to discussing with or without facts. Logical fallacies and the such. If you see someone totally bashing you without discussing facts then "sill is as sill does"...

Or downvoting you into the ground for a very valid point, as appears to have been done to your comment here. This is a really interesting thread...

Can I get a witness? Thanks, bud! My advice to you would be to use facts and nothing else and if people do not use facts back, then treat them as a shill b/c as I said earlier, "shill is as shill does"...

Or just hang out on /new

Calling people shills, trolls, racists, antisemites or any other name with the intention of defaming them is against the rules.

The mods can't be everywhere all the time so if you see these problems then report them.

This is all covered by rule 10 and rule 1

Indeed. Thanks.

I tend to believe that also. I think there are definitely people here trolling but some of the theories that I see people posting seem like they are so absurd nobody would really believe them. Someone around the anniversary of JFK's assassination posted a theory with a link about how the real shooter was actually Jackie Kennedy and she was a Russian spy. Anyone watching the video or who studied it at all could tell you this is ridiculous. This seemed to be a theory so that when somebody says "I don't believe the official JFK story" the person retorting could say "yeah you conspiracy theorists think it was the cia, or the mob, or jackie kennedy etc." and it makes all the "theories" look equally laughable even though they aren't. I do believe some theories are made up to discredit the entire community.

when you have spent the time to know the bigger picture and know there is a photo of hoddy guy crouched near the spot before the bomb goes off holding a leg shaped bag... then another photo of him entering the scene with several premade straps on his head/neck....

the only id we have of "bauman" is from a facebook post....

Hopefully you can see that people can be on the fence or even disagree with you without being shills or "blue-pills".

it is irrefutable. believe your eyes or deny. if you or others have not done the work needed to know about the hoody crouch photo and the other photo with the straps on his head whose fault is that? it doesn't change the facts.

Sandy Hook is not possible to be 100% but Boston it absolutely is.

Sandy Hook there are just too many blanks. Still nothing wrong with theorising about what those blanks may contain.

and know there is a photo of hoddy guy crouched near the spot before the bomb goes off holding a leg shaped bag.

Got a link to that? I thought I'd seen everything on this topic but don't remember this.