Police are not there to create disorder they are there to preserve it. going to the streets is the PTB plan.

the only hope is to get everyone aware so it never comes to violence. To the point the MSM cant lie and cant Divide and conquer. building alternatives to the FED grasp on money with bitcoin and MtnHours.

As a skeptic, I tend to wonder why there is such hostility by conspiracy theorists against bitcoin when basically what it is is nerds figured out how to do money better in the same sense that nerds figured out how to do long distance phone calls better when they came up with skype.

A decade from now, Bitcoin or something like it will probably be the world reserve currency. It wont be by choice of any government - they will have no choice but to accept it as such. Simply because its the invention of nerds who figured out how to more efficiently transmit value. I can send 80 transactions all over the world for combined fees of less than $1 usd. That has to mean something in this subreddit. You guys need to get behind this technology. You can help drive it forward.

As a skeptic, I tend to wonder why there is such hostility by conspiracy theorists against bitcoin

That could be because you're not actually a "skeptic", just a mainstream thinker who is averse to evidence which challenges their conventional world view.

Bitcoin was a brilliant invention, but it has created a Dutch Tulip mania for the 21st century. Thousands have already lost their shirts through hacking, fraudulent exchanges like MtGox, FBI confiscation and currency manipulators. Bitcoin is inherently unsafe and always will be.

As opposed to currency that has been counterfeited since inception? OR maybe if bitcoin policy was used to collapse the housing markets and give ownership of everything to the banks...

+/u/dogetipbot 500 doge

Thanks for the doge.

I am not a supporter of the current fiat system at all. All currency systems have different drawbacks. The global fiat system is guaranteed to collapse at some point because too much worthless money has been printed (or clicked) into existence - there is too much debt to ever be paid back, and its getting worse.

Cryptocurrencies are a great idea in principle, but they have different risks. They can't be printed to infinity, but since their value is so volatile, they are being used by speculators as a commodity. For a cryptocurrency to really become established, a mechanism has to be incorporated to makes its value stable.

That mechanism, in my opinion, is the same as Fiat. Mass adoption of the currency. Hence, I spent everything I saved as a disabled guy for 2 years, change and birthday cash which I am severely fucking lucky to even get this many years into my adult life... A true sign of the terrible times... trading, buying, selling any sort of legal commodity I could, like I did as a child to perpetuate my paintball habit. Just so I could build a decent desktop/ mining rig. Now I have two desktop/mining rigs.

I am now barely even considered a "Middle class shibe". Which, I know is entirely silly, but that's part of the point of the currency for me, to stop taking money so damn seriously... So I think the levity is a fantastically necessary addition to money.

I am continuing to mine to support the blockchain, and I'm going to give more tips than I received. Because it was a few tips that got me into the entire thing. It is a powerful thing, rewarding people for educating and informing others.

So, yeah, there are risks, and there are speculators, but using that as a reason against adoption is like not using USD because a Forex market exists, and people take advantage of legal credit default swaps. Better is better. This is dial-up to broadband. Remember people on TV talking about e-mail in the 90's? Same deal.

Pushing for peace and prosperity, one moon bound Doge at a time!

I respect your commitment, and wish you the best. I have been following bitcoin since the early days (< $1) and would have made a packet if I had bought some. After accumulating some"bits of a bitcoin" I switched them into doge because I think it has more potential (in terms of % gains), but I haven't invested anything into cryptocurrencies thus far.

I think we both agree that fiat is toast. The key question is what comes next? There's a lot of uncertainty.

There is a lot of uncertainty. I like the Dogecoin community's sense of purpose. I think that a currency born outside of the silk road, on the clear net, with a message of caring and a focus on doing good things should be the one to fill the power vaccum that is going to be left behind by the implosion of the USD.

It's wishful thinking, but I would rather be hopeful and work towards positive change than do nothing at all and simply hope that it all gets better without having to do anything.

:-D to the moon!

Also, could you imagine being put on trial for revolutionary behavior... and the main evidence is that you gave out dogecoins which are represented by this picture? P=Prosecutor, J= Judge.

P- "Your honor, He didn't pay taxes on his Cryptographic currency holdings, because, and I quote; "Much wow, War Bad, No supporting. To the MOON.". He then detailed the entire inner workings of the federal reserve banking system for the next three hours without pausing. I believe he may be a crazy and violent person."

J- "But, you said that he gave out this currency to people who spoke of non-violent protest to achieve change?"

P- "Yes, but he also said he wanted to destroy the power structure of the federal reserve, DESTROY your honor! That's violent."

J- "And he intended to do this with an image of a doge and a made up currency based upon a cute dog meme? Looking through the testimony, it appears that he pretty accurately described flaws within our banking system and how they are exploited with impunity."

P- "Well, yeah, when you put it THAT way, this whole thing sounds petty and cruel."

+/u/dogetipbot 500 doge

You guys need to get behind this technology

Im not trying to argue, im just trying to explain why im against it.

First if all, it can easily be hacked. Hell, it already was hacked several times. Not only that, but there is no reserve to back up the digital value. Also, its infrastructure relies on the internet heavily and full heartedly. An emp can knock all that out (natural or manmade).

Not only that, but a one world currency can be used as a segway to one world bank, one world constitution, and one world government (NWO).

Not that i believe this WILL happen. I just believe it COULD. So i chose to not participate.

2 things... Bitcoin protocol itself has never been hacked. Second if an emp or something knocks out the entire internet we will have bigger issues, no more credit cards either... only physical assets. Get your fact right man.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/18/history-of-bitcoin-hacks-alternative-currency

Thats enough for me to not trust bitcoin.

Period.

Plus, why put so much faith into bitcoin when it has the same exact weakness as the original source of commerce?

The way i see it, the risks are the same (actually, the risk with bitcoin is more, due to the unknow factors)

There is literally zero incentive to use bitcoin. Zero.

Provide these "facts" that prove otherwise.

Ok... still the Bitcoin protocol has not been hacked as suggested in your other post. Bitcoin services have been hacked just like any other money service, Target hack anyone. So does that mean you do t use credit cards either?

I just wanted to let you know you made an incorrect statement.

I made a correct statement. I stated bitcoin has been hacked. Thats all i need to know to decide whether or not i will use it.

There is zero advantage to using bitcoin over credit cards. Zero.

There is more to bitcoin that is unknown, as far as hacking and fraud are concerned, than there is to know about credit cards.

Credit cards are safer.

Again, provide facts to prove otherwise.

No. You made an incorrect statement. Centralized exchanges where people go to trade national currencies for bitcoin have been hacked and people who have wallets on their computers have been hacked but the bitcoin itself has not been hacked. When an exchange is hacked and bitcoin are stolen that is the digital equivalent to a bank robbery. When a bank is robbed it has no effect on the underlying principles of how centralized planners move create and manipulate money. It doesn't change interest rates or reserve ratio requirements across the board. If a cyber criminal hacks into Bank of America and manages to wire out a bunch of dollars that doesn't break the dollar. With bitcoin those hacks of places where people kept some bitcoins are the only hacks that have happened. Bitcoin itself wasn't "hacked." MtGox wasn't bitcoin, it was more analogous to bank of america.

I get your point. Thank you.

Its still enough for me to not trust bitcoin.

Citizen journalism like We Are Change is doing, and has been doing for years, is just as important as protest.

The Occupy and Tea Party movements, which each started off as populist uprisings, eventually fell because they were cleverly co-opted by the Democrat and Republican parties.

People need to break out of this two-party paradigm, or nothing good will happen. Citizen journalism has the power to break that two-party system.

Get involved with Free & Equal if you want to help. As xxCRM114xx has suggested, go to college campuses and hand out literature.

Go out, armed with your camera phones, and question corrupt politicians and corporate business moguls. Upload it to YouTube. You can even put ads on you videos for businesses that are honest and good to fund your citizen journalism like AMTV does.

There have been plenty protests, plenty of coverage, and they either get infiltrated or the masses don't see them or wake up. There were quite a few big protests at the capital. The politicians saw all the people, didn't matter, business as usual. We've lost representation in most politicians. The people on this subbredit know that, which is why we say what we say.

Not too mention, you have trigger happy police and "free speach" zones. What a scary ass joke.

How many rallies, protests, and town halls have you been to?

Exactly, tell me, once you've traveled a few hundred miles to go to rallies (like I have), and realize they don't care (the politicians see but don't care). I'm for peace, I've been to DC at least 5 times. The people don't care, they are complacent. I choose to inform those around me whom I love. I am making progress. To be blunt, fuck you for calling me lazy, I'm not. I'm just not as naive as you to think you can "wake everyone up". Do you're little meet ups, You will only attract those who care, for the rest, what's the Beibs doing? Awww, shit kardashian said what? Yea, fuck you. Don't ridicule us, because a lot of us "been there", tried that. Fucking piss ant, sing coom by yah while you save the world, be a little more mature. The masses are ignorant and people don't give a shit. I sleep fine, with a couple beers at night, because I hope when I wake up, this will all just be a fucked up dream. Fuck you, fuck you're naivety, and fuck your condescending words. Most of all fuck this world, cuz shit is getting real, real quick. I'm peaceful, and I share the knowledge I have, but shits a lost cause. All you have to do is look at the Romans, Rome is on fire, but we have sports, and social media :) .

Come in here thinking we are all just arm chair, lazy, commentators. This shit has been going on for a long time. We as a community have said this shit for a long time. People do not listen, or are just lying to them selves. There is a point in time where you say enough is enough. People don't care, that's why this community is jaded. Sorry to wreck your hopes and dreams. Be real, be honest, and this is the community. The US is dead. What happens next is any ones guess.

I'm not saying anything about militancy. I'm saying before you try to help the general masses. Start with people who are close to you. Have an open discussion. People will naturally spread the word. I'm against the people who want to give the state a reason to slam the hammer down.

[I need a good synonym for stand...gather?]

Uprising?

I share your sentiment. However, there has been many attempts at protesting, to no avail. We have (myself included) written our representatives many times, to no avail.

They are chosing to not listen to us.

Our founding fathers set forth a paradigm for us citizens during a time when we disagree with what tue federal government is doing. It starts of by written grievences, then formal protests.

Just like back in the 18th century, we have tried and tried to get our government to hear us out. And, just like in the 18th century, there are no tangible results. The final stage, dare i say, would be revolution. I dont believe we are there just yet, but more and more each day that seems to be the on way we can take back control of our country.

I think the onky way to avoid revolution is for the majority of our citizens, in unison, to take to the streets, peacefully.

But, therein lies a problem. It is incredibly difficult to amass such large numbers in any mesningful way in order to conduct such a scale of peaceful protest. Thus, i believe there is only the last resort left.

Until then, i will continue to address my grievences to my areas representative, and i will continue spreading the truth (not particularily about conspiracies, but the generalized notion that our federal government is out of control) until the time comes.

The problem literally is ignorance. Too many people chowing down on mcdonalds in front of the tv watching bachelorette or some shit, too preoccupied to look out their own window to see the world around them is changing for the worst...

I wonder if our founding fathers saw the same thing in their countrymen. In fact, i think they did. Lemme quote sam adams for a second:

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

– Samuel Adams

Maaybe you misread what i said. The time for formal protests has come already. There have been many attempts (some i did partake in). What you are pushing for is trite. Its been used up. Laughable (from TPTB and the ignoramuses' point of view, not mine). Its been tried and hasnt work.

Same thing with written grievences and letters addressed to our representatives. I have written several times, personally.

What you are pushing for seems to be one final protest. Even against the precedence of historical (albeit recent) ineffectiveness that protests seem to garner. Im not against the idea. Though, from my experience, trying to get people to wake up has proven to be fruitless. The stubbornness of tbose who remain ignorant compounds this.

I still conduct conversations with those around me, slowly but surely inserting small tidbits there to make them curious enough to do their own research. Thats all we can do at this point, until we are all driven to revolt.

I am not defeated, and i will remain vigilant in my own rights.

Or maybe, just maybe, the people, the likes of me, decide that instead of doing superficial protests we decice that it is in our best insterest to hiard as many guns, as many ammo, and as many like minded individuals in preparation of what is to come?

What if, instead of public demonstrations that have been known to epically fail, i have created a group (which i did, and you are welcome to join) that prepares on the individual level rather than the failed public level?

What if, i have something up my sleeve that TPTB nor you know about?

What if?

You dont know

So, stfu. Join the cause or shut the fuck up.

You sound exactly like TPTB. "You are defeated." Fuck that shit.

Im defeated when im dead.

Period.

The same remains for those that follow.

...And the reason you're not at your local college campus protesting is?

I don't protest because I don't give a fuck. Honestly, I did for a long time (not protest, but give a fuck). But it seems like too much energy because I am comfortable. I have a good job. I have my own place now. I am working on keeping a lady around. And I have a little money saved up. I know our government is corrupt, I know they don't care about me or the education of my future children, and we'll probably be knee deep in another war by the time I am done typing this. But you know what? I honestly just dont care anymore. There are too many things to worry about in my life without trying to educate people who don't want hear it about 9/11, government corruption, and whatever other conspiracies there are. What people need to focus on are Wolf-pac to reform campaign finance, and our education system. That is it. If we can maybe sorta kinda a little bit start addressing those things then we will have a slightly higher educated and skeptical population who would be more willing to question authority and not just follow the carrot on a stick.

I like the message you are trying to put out but honestly I just think its too much.

What do you think is going to happen in the immediate future?

Well that is a bit of an extremist view to take. I mean literally all of that stuff has happened until about the 2:15 mark and then he pretty much exactly describes the movie Elysium. But you know what, all of those issues can be tapered and helped be prevented if we do two things. The first is money out of politics and the second is education reform. Thats it. Literally all other problems will slowly melt away if we can fix those two things.

Violence or Illegal activity would not be tolerated, and anyone who engaged in criminal activity or used the crowd to incite a riot would be shunned from the Movement.

Like this didn't already happen with OWS. Look, OP, I agree with you and I get tired of all the "lets do something" that ends in doing nothing. OWS failed because it, like the TEA party movement, became compromised. They worked because they didn't have already idiot political figures heading them up. Once that happened, the legitimacy was lost.

Then the intrusions occurred where LEO actually posed as protesters and incited violence to the point of alleged rapes. How do you fight that which was born out of violence? Militias are powerless against the military armed with the NDAA. Obama signed executive orders giving him powers over just about everything in times of turmoil (he sidestepped the 'martial law' declaration and just made an executive order).

So we stand around until we either get tased and arrested, pepper sprayed, or the movement works for a while until Sarah Palin gets elected as de facto leader and the whole thing gets associated with extreme right wing neocon nuts.

No, you're absolutely right. It's difficult to break the cycle that has been so ingrained in my generation that action is not valuable because it's only you: you are alone in this.

But you're 100% right.

I don't mean to sound defeatist, or even that I have given up - I haven't. But I find it extremely difficult; and maybe it's because I live in San Antonio and no one here seriously gives a fuck, at least in the social circles I have encountered.

Anyways, thanks for the honesty.. It does help me as I can take criticism.

Hey OP, a lot of the users who frequent this sub are here to bring down messages just like yours. Many of the lurkers come from r/conspirtard

I completely agree with you. I would actually make a bigger noise about it and try to get people to stop going to work. Essentially to garner attention, if you have enough people refuse to go to work it starts to gain attention rather quickly. I would participate in a sit in or something but I also have a daughter and the responsibility of taking care of her. I can't just not go to work and manage to be responsible parent. I would gladly walk in rally with her in a stroller though on a weekend and in fact did so last year in a rally against Monsanto.

Dude, relax. Go out and have a breath of fresh air. Enjoy life a bit. If you get caught up trying to fix everything ... freaking out on all these conspiracies, you will just generate yourself a lot of bad blood .. and in a sense, "they" win over you.

Think about it, the only way "they" lose is if you can live your life to the fullest, as it's meant to be. Being aware of how things work give you the option of knowingly opting out of this system. Don't try to change the world, just create the means to opt yourself out, and maybe so doing inspire others to follow your path.

Cheers, friend. Peace to you and your loved ones.

No, I am not talking about denial. You see, wanting to change the world in a drastic manner will only pass you off as being crazy, and most people don't even care. Seriously.

The attitude I am talking about is covered in the following podcast by 2 activists I respect very much. It is not denial, it is taking care of yourself first, to inspire others to do the same. For example, growing your own food, trade commodities so as not to be dependent on all the garbage and GMO's they sell in supermarkets.

Being free now is possible, and it does involve changing anything in the world. It means concentrating your efforts on the only thing that matters: you and those you hold dear.

To put it another way, our civilisation as we know it is changing. Structures are falling apart, and it does not look pretty from afar. But ... many civilisations have collapsed in the past, only to be replaced by something better, and greater. Roman Empire collapsed, and the people then must of thought it was bad, but then OUR empire was built on top of that. We had a good time for a while, and now it is going down.

Instead of focusing on trying to save a ship that is doomed, why not prepare for the next empire that will be built on top of ours? Start building today the upcoming empire. If you have success doing this, it will certainly inspire others ( just as I have been inspired ). THinking this way seems to me a lot more constructive and bring up a lot less bad blood and emotions.

Here are 2 very cool podcasts that go into more details on this exact subject, these actually present solutions to the problems that are troubling you. In no way is this denial, rest assured.

http://www.corbettreport.com/episode-146-lessons-in-resistance-building-communities/

http://www.corbettreport.com/episode-170-the-coming-anastrophe/

Remember, if you spend a lot of time feeling enraged and powerless against a big "machine", thinking only of conspirations ... "they" win, and you lose out on the enjoyment your life is supposed to bring you.

He has a point, you have to get yourself into a position of health and wellbeing before you can make any real change. Its best to start with yourself and move forward from their. Do something that inspires you and people will follow.

My problem is that people don't realize what little time we have to act. And why we need to...now. I need people to fucking do something for others, not talk about getting delusionally happy and other self-centered distractions.

You will realise, in time as I did that most people don't care. You will realise most people are not up to letting go of a little bit of their well-being (possessions, money ) to help others. The masses are self-entitled, egoistical superficial sheeps that follow and repeat whatever bleached mainstream information propaganda they are bombarded with.

So you are upset about the poors in Africa? You will realise most others are more interested on what the IPhone 6 is going to be like, or Nintendo games. Trying to clue in these people hard facts of life will at best get you blank stares, at worst it will alienate you. It takes a lot of time and patience to open the eyes of just one person. I suggest you listen to the corbett podcast "how to talk to people", you will understand what you are up against.

If you truly believe you have a mission to change the world, then I cannot do anything better than wish you the best of luck.

Come on bro, relax. I really do understand your point, I foster 3 african children and live a very simple life. Believe me, I am doing what I can, educating those that care to listen on the corruption of the system. But, understand in my opinion the boat is going to sink someday (soon, hopefully) and there is no purpose in trying to patch it up. Concentrate on getting in the liferaft, if you want my opinion.

We can agree to disagree, no hard feelings.

It hasn't hit people where it really hurts yet. That's why there's so much apathy. But I would like to comment that you are as American as they come, though still a bit naive.

Because things just don't work like that. You can't plan it. And if people like Obama, Biden, etc., came to your debate to defend themselves, they would just utter the same political diatribe that they utter in every other situation. It's all lies and obfuscation of fact. I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I think you are a bit idealistic. And there's nothing wrong with that, except idealism becomes its own ideology that blinds people to the exact reality of the situation. I respect your post though. I don't mean to be critical. However, I would recommend trying to make sure your illusions are shattered at all points along the way.

That people will gather and organize against corporations and it will look anything like you describe is incredibly unlikely.

Look at the history of protests against corporate power, the most famous recent example would seem to me to be the occupy wall street movement, although that was not EXPLICITLY anti corporate since it was not explicitly anti anything.

When you organize a movement you don't get "regular folk," you get the motivated minority, who tend to be the people with the most hard-line views and entrenched interest. You don't wake up a population all at once, some people are already predisposed to any given movement by pre-existing interests, and they will be the first and loudest, and they define your movement for you, and it wont be the way you want. I'm sure there were smart motivated people with common sense who wanted to see the occupy wall street movement work, but all of that got sidetracked when the base turned out to be a bunch of weird hippies. What will your base be?

I will have no base(now i see the naivety).

You learn fast, but next you will need to adapt your plan to your new info. How can a base be a benefit.

All movements have bases, whether they want them or not, who is yours? how will you appeal to them? what are their benefits to the cause and also their liabilities?

Or if there is a base you want to avoid, how will you deflect them from the cause?

I will hopefully have a crowd of people talking to each other, discussing the information being displayed, and sharing it with their friends on the internet.

Lets say that we are in your future where this is happening on a wide scale. The base in this scenario are the people who talk the loudest, discuss the most vehemently, the ones most motivated to share on the internet.

This is your hidden support base among the regular folk. They have their worn interests that cause them to be so passionate, and those passions will come to shape the movement, because they will quickly become the face of it.

Ok, but what you want to show them is information that already is available to them.

The people who are successful at what you want to do are people like Snowden, but he had access to new and important information.

People aren't going to suddenly take an interest in a YouTube video that has been around since 2008.

Here is essentially what I am saying to you, there are two ways to effect change: start a movement or reveal a new and important truth. Both are incredibly unlikely to succeed, but not impossible.

Ah, I feel like you are lashing out after having people here start to crush your dreams a little. I was only trying to help.

Also, I don't know your specifics, but I don't think my situation or the world at large is a hellish nightmare or likely to be one in my lifetime.

Hell we live in an information age. Think about just 50 years ago how people had to get information. ALL they had was media and maybe word of mouth.

Now look at the spread of information today. Look at the syrian civil war being organized through facebook and twitter. Look at how we are talking right now.

You live in the dawn of a goddamn golden age, my boy. But just because the river has come to the horses doesn't mean we can make them drink. They will get thirsty in their own time.

Not taking to the streets is not being defeated. And maybe my means are more humble than yours, but also perhaps my goals are more realistic and achievable.

Yes, I'm not looking to start a movement. Also, if I did you would not be on board with it probably since you and I, and everyone else in this subreddit, will disagree on SOMETHING.

I, for instance, do not think 9-11 was an inside job. Other conspiracies seem much more concrete and realistic to me. But I'm sure if you drew up your list of your top 10 conspiracies everyone should rally behind here, practically no one would agree with them all. That is the nature of conspiracies.

But ask yourself this, if you look around and say "NO ONE HERE HAS ANY EMPATHY, WHY CANT THEY FEEL WHAT I AM FEELING??" is that a problem with everyone else? or a problem with you?

which is more likely?

Part of exposing conspiracies is exposing how populist uprisings like you advocate, and that's obviously a great idea, get co-opted. It's important to understand that. You have to be completely educated on elite shenanigans (aka, conspiracies,) if you're to be an effective leader who educates and changes paradigms.

I'm with you though. People need to get off their asses.

[deleted]

Imagine if the Tea Party (the real one, started by Ron Paul supporters) and Occupy came together on the issues they agree on, and started there.

This was put together by Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, and Cynthia McKinney in 2008:

Foreign Policy: The Iraq War must end as quickly as possible with removal of all our soldiers from the region. We must initiate the return of our soldiers from around the world, including Korea, Japan, Europe and the entire Middle East. We must cease the war propaganda, threats of a blockade and plans for attacks on Iran, nor should we re-ignite the cold war with Russia over Georgia. We must be willing to talk to all countries and offer friendship and trade and travel to all who are willing. We must take off the table the threat of a nuclear first strike against all nations.

Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the government. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.

The National Debt: We believe that there should be no increase in the national debt. The burden of debt placed on the next generation is unjust and already threatening our economy and the value of our dollar. We must pay our bills as we go along and not unfairly place this burden on a future generation.

The Federal Reserve: We seek a thorough investigation, evaluation and audit of the Federal Reserve System and its cozy relationships with the banking, corporate, and other financial institutions. The arbitrary power to create money and credit out of thin air behind closed doors for the benefit of commercial interests must be ended. There should be no taxpayer bailouts of corporations and no corporate subsidies. Corporations should be aggressively prosecuted for their crimes and frauds.

Wow, the tards are really attacking this post with downvotes. I think you've struck a nerve.

Well, to be fair, I know for sure that some of us aren't just sitting around doing nothing in the real world. I'm an activist, and have a few activist friends that post here as well.

But, you're most likely right, the vast majority here are just keyboard commandos.