[TIL] The IRS is the result of the ratification of the 16th Amendment that was, however, never properly ratified by the 3/4 margin required by the constitution, and thusly seems to be yet another unconstitutional scam (Like the War on Drugs or Obamacare)
137 2014-06-15 by strokethekitty
Ive heard the argument that the IRS and its IRC are unconstitutional. I liked the sound of that, but never bothered to figure out why. So, lets discuss this little troddened theory that may or may not hold water.
Through a some research, one source explained that several statesin the early 20th century had, in their constitution, set forth how to deal with a proposed amendment to the constitution. They set rules and legislation within their constitution that prohibited them from voting to ratify a proposed amendment until after the very next state elections.
This served to insure that the people got to have a say in whether or not the amendment should be ratified by making the proposed amendment a huge part in the campaign platforms of the potential incumbents; it served to act as a cool-down period to reduce the tendency to approve an idea because it is the moments trend (im feelin gun control parallels here).
Other states, for various other reasons, have failed to properly ratify the amendment. Some of these reasons are:
Some, like florida, outright rejected the proposal
Some, like Ohio and California, never sent back certified, signed and seal copies of the proposal, which, if anyone has ever had to hand in a sealed copy of your college transcripts (for instance, to be accepted into the United States Navy at a higher rank), if the seal is broken, the transcripts credibility fails to exist, and another copy must be acquired
The constitution of some states did not grant the state government the authority of taxing income, and therefore (alledgedly) did not have the authority to pass along that authority to the federal government
Some states, like North Carolina and Mississippi and Colorado, had outlined in their constitution that before voting to ratify a proposed amendment to The Constitution, the proposal must be read on three seperate days, in order to provide ample chance for members to be present should they be absent one day, to serve as a cool-down period, and to insure better understand of the proposal as sometimes some members in our government feel its okay to vote on a proposal, without even reading it! (Like that one chick who said, "You have to pass it to know whats in it!")
Anyways, long story short, back in 1913, 36 states were required to vite in approval for ratification of the 16th Amendment which allowed fir the creation of the Internal Revenue Service.
After a little bit of digging, it turns out that only about 20 states successfully and lawfully casted an approving vote--just a little more than half of what was needed.
Now, seeing whats going on today with all the scandals involving our beloved income rapists that is the IRS, is it really hard to believe that even its creation couldve been fraudulent? (I dont think i even have to ask you how they would benefit by forcing this scam back then...)
Regardless of its believability, I am asking knowledgable individuals here to either provide evidence or information for or against this claim, and, provide any other reasons why the IRS is or isnt constitutional. Also, I would be willing to discuss other possibly unconstitutional bullshit scams our government has delivered us, like the War on Drugs, Obamacare, etc...
EDIT: This is the site i originally found the info. Investigate it if you want:
http://theruggedindividualist.net/IRS_is_Unconstitutional.html
25 comments
15 SovereignMan 2014-06-15
Lavin v. Marsh, 644 F.2nd 1378, 9th Cir., (1981)
Bollow v. Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, 650 F.2d 1093, 9th Cir., (1981)
What is “income”?
Internal Revenue Code:
TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > § 1
§ 1. Tax imposed
(a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses
(b) Heads of households
(c) Unmarried individuals (other than surviving spouses and heads of households)
TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > § 2
§ 2. Definitions and special rules
TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > § 63
§63. Taxable income defined
(a) In general
(b) Individuals who do not itemize their deductions
TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 62
§62. Adjusted gross income defined
(a) General rule
TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 64
§64. Ordinary income defined
TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 61
§61. Gross income defined
(a) General definition
In review:
§63a - “taxable income” means “gross income” minus...
§62a - “adjusted gross income” means, in the case of an individual, “gross income” minus...
§64 - “ordinary income” includes any gain ... (watch for the word gain in the following Supreme Court decisions).
§61a - “gross income” means all “income” from whatever source derived... (Note the Edwards vs. Keith Decision below)
§??? - “income” means ????? ............... Nowhere to be found in The Internal Revenue Code!!!
These are the only definitions in Title 26, the Internal Revenue Code, that include the word “income” yet none of them actually define the word “income”. The definition of the word “income” does not exist in Title 26. How do we really know this for sure? The Supreme Court tells us so:
U.S. v. Ballard, 535 F2d 400, cert denied, 429 U.S. 918, 50 L.Ed.2d 283, 97 S.Ct. 310 (1976)
Note that in section 61a the term “income” is claimed by IRS “agents acting in the governments behalf” (see the 2 decisions at the top of this page) to be defined by saying “from whatever source derived”. Let's look at §61a a little closer:
§61a - “... gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:
(1) Compensation for services...”
Example: One receives $100 as compensation for services. How does one derive income from that $100 source? One simply invests the $100 and any any resulting profit is income.
Exactly what is this thing, this “income” that is taxed? Where can we find the legal definition as used in Title 26? Let's ask the Supreme Court:
12 SovereignMan 2014-06-15
Let's ask the Supreme Court... continued:
Butchers' Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746.(1883)
Redfield v. Fisher, 292 P. 813, 135 Or. 180, 294 P.461, 73 A.L.R. 721 (1931)
Edwards v. Keith, 231 F110, 113 (1916)
Conner v. U.S., 303 F Supp. 1187 (1969)
Emanuel J. Doyle v. Mitchell Brothers Company 247 US 179 (1918)
Merchant's Loan & Trust Company v. Smietanka 255 US 509 (1921)
Stanton v. Baltic Mining, 240 U.S. 103 (1916)
Burnet v. Harmel 287 US 103 (1932)
Staples v. U.S., 21 F Supp 737 U.S. Dist. Ct. ED PA, (1937)
Oliver v. Halstead, 196 VA 992; 86 S.E. Rep 2nd 85e9 (1955)
Central Illinois Public Service Co. v. United States, 435 U.S. 21 (1978)
Note: This information is provided for educational use only. I am not an attorney and do not give legal advice.
Note: Most judges nowadays dismiss the above citations as "frivolous" arguments.
Edit: Corrections.
10 SovereignMan 2014-06-15
Some other interesting decisions:
Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43 (1906)
U.S. v. Tweel, 550 F.2d 297, 299 (1977)
Hassett v. Welch, 303 U.S. 303 (1938)
Spreckles Sugar Refining Co. vs. McLain: 192 US 397
5 FreedomIntensifies 2014-06-15
When you finally get to sources that sound like they are making the case that compensation is not income, is when you run into problems with your sources:
This decision was reversed by the Supreme Court.
The text you quote as part of this decision:
is not actually in that decision.
This decision doesn't even contain the words income.
I suggest that you go here for a more coherent argument of your position.
1 SovereignMan 2014-06-15
I'll double check those sources. Thanks.
And thanks for the interesting PDF too.
1 SovereignMan 2014-06-15
After double checking, I've removed the Lucas v. Earl quote and edited the Conner v. US quote. The Oliver v. Halstead quote is still relevant.
Thanks again.
6 archonemis 2014-06-15
You cannot quote U.S. Law to people who don't care about and violate U.S. Law. Courts do not care about the law. They literally make it up as they go along. It's called 'tort.'
All of your quotations of tax code are irrelevant in a court of law.
(See: Sherry Jackson and Larken Rose for details)
That said I have halted participation in the tribute system [Federal Income Tax]. Should they turn their attention toward me (it's possible) I will not be quoting their law - the law they break daily. I will deflect their attacks through a very specific line: I'll challenge their standing. This is a complex concept, but it boils down to these points:
1.) Violation of a right.
2.) Injury.
A code violation could only count as a violation of a right if and only if the codes applied to you. But there is no evidence [that I know of] to prove that their codes and laws apply to you. Yeah, sure their paperwork says they own you if you're born on land they've claimed to be theirs, but that has nothing to do with you. It would be like if I held up a piece of paper that said I had a right to everyone's house in North America. It's meaningless if it's not connected to the people from their end.
Without some kind of evidence that their codes apply the default position is that they don't apply to you or anyone you know. The U.S. Federal government is completely illegitimate.
Another way of looking at this would be to use their own paperwork to see if their own paperwork match. The U.S. Supreme court found that a citizen was a member of a body politic owing a duty of allegiance in exchange for a duty of protection; these are reciprocal duties. The U.S. Supreme court has also found that they have no duty to protect anyone. So the only reason for government is to protect people and yet they don't protect anyone. Great - they just invalidated themselves.
Not that any of this matters.
I stopped participating for purely ethical reasons.
If they want to kill people it won't be on my dime.
3 thediabolical1 2014-06-15
What do you mean "stopped participating?"
2 archonemis 2014-06-15
I do not give them money and I do not file their paperwork.
They get zero communication and zero financial support from me.
2 thediabolical1 2014-06-15
Thank you. Not for replying, but for having the courage to stand against tyranny. A lot of people sit and complain about this or that but it's rare to find someone who wants and does more than just bitch about it. We are financing their terror campaigns on other countries strictly for the benefit of corporate interests. Every dime we give them. Godspeed, friend. Your walking the righteous path. I wish you luck and success in everything you do.
2 archonemis 2014-06-15
We are few.
But our numbers grow.
3 jeffinRTP 2014-06-15
Might be a good place to start. http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/16th.htm
3 ceilte 2014-06-15
It would seem to me that rather than an individual taking it upon themselves to declare that the 16th was ratified incorrectly, the proper venue would be the Supreme Court itself, as they seem to have the ability to judge the Constitution itself (Article III, Section 2), "The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution[...]"
I suspect that fighting it with nonconforming and disobeying the IRS will just end up with the outspoken individual being mired in the bottomless well of the Tax Code and never able to prove standing to challenge the constitutionality of the 16th itself. It would be a fascinating court case to watch, though.
3 Crimson_D82 2014-06-15
The supreme court already ruled the 16th amendment granted congress no new powers. In a court of law I would simply put it in the IRS to show the law that mandates US citizens file a 1040.
Hint: there is no such law.
-1 ceilte 2014-06-15
I read that summary. What I didn't read is where the Supreme Court actually ruled on if the 16th was constitutionally ratified, which was the original assertion.
If the attorneys for either side don't argue the point on if the ratification was legitimate in the first place, then it's not a question the court will address.
2 Crimson_D82 2014-06-15
It's not listed here but I already know it for a fact. It's also noted in a few documentary's as well.
1 ceilte 2014-06-15
I can look up the case if you can provide the name. I am specifically looking for one where SCOTUS ruled on the constitutionality of the ratification of the 16th, not whether it's interpreted to grant new powers (which is a different issue).
1 Crimson_D82 2014-06-15
Wish I could help but I've only heard it cited in documentary's and I don't remember. Try this. It's the long cut but if you look on YouTube you can find a shorter version.
1 archonemis 2014-06-15
You cannot get them to acknowledge their own laws.
Remember that they ignore and break their own laws daily.
Also, you would have no standing in a court of law to sue or prosecute them.
Why? They have no fiduciary duties to you. They do not represent you in any legally speaking.
2 Crimson_D82 2014-06-15
IIRC the supreme count it's self ruled that the 16th amendment gave congress no new powers.
2 dbell 2014-06-15
Stop paying your taxes and let me know how that works out for you.
3 archonemis 2014-06-15
"Your" taxes.
I always find it funny that the ownership is, for whatever reason, assigned to the person being compelled to pay taxes. As though it isn't the government imposing the taxation.
1 frozenfoot 2014-06-15
some states altered the text which means the same documents was not ratified by all states
2 archonemis 2014-06-15
The U.S. Federal government is of no legitimacy.
If they were really here to help us they would not charge us to file their paperwork.
If they really meant to help us they would be clear in their language.
If they really meant to help us they would not put us in prison for non-violent "crimes."
Who cares if it was ratified? They get nothing.
1 --install-suggests 2014-06-15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Adoption
3 archonemis 2014-06-15
"Your" taxes.
I always find it funny that the ownership is, for whatever reason, assigned to the person being compelled to pay taxes. As though it isn't the government imposing the taxation.