Figured I'd just throw this in here:

https://twitter.com/vesti_kpss/status/478926313831792640

"Soon above Ruin(I guess some derogatory name for Ukraine - "Ukraina" is Russian for Ukraine and "Ruina" is Russian for a ruin) an airliner stuffed full of euro-tourists will be shot down. This will be the reason for official NATO invitation. That's the way I see it"

Posted exactly a month ago.

My Russian isn't that good but I think I got the translation about right there (feel free to correct).

Anyone has anything on this Twitter account?

Interesting. Although if NATO wanted to get involved, you'd think that Crimea would be plenty of excuse already.

Not saying it's impossible, but I'll believe it when we actually declare war.

Declare? The US doesn't declare war anymore we just "go" to it.

America hasn't been in a War since the Second World War.

We perform Operations where we inject freedom into freedom hating countries.

I'm full of me. Please don't inject anything into me. There's no room.

"freedom hating countries"? Yeah because there are people out there who want to be in a prison and told what to do. What next, you gonna tell me we got hit on 9/11 because we have too much ketchup on our freedom fries?

no no you don't get it

they don't hate freedom, they hate freedom.

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Satire dude.

Who said anything about the US declaring anything? Pretty sure we are talking about NATO here.

When you have to twist the words of the post you are replying too, it's a pretty good sign your argument is extremely weak.

Read the comment that I was directly replying to.

"Not saying it's impossible, but I'll believe it when we actually declare war."

No idiot.

This thread is about a tweet of how NATO was going to use a downed commercial jet to invade Ukraine. As an excuse to go to war.

The next person says "Not saying it's impossible, but I'll believe it when we declare war."

In that context it is abundantly clear that we was meaning NATO.

You, and nobody else, then changed it to the United States, to spew your garbage that fits your agenda and ignored reality.

Nobody except you said US. We was clearly referring to Nato.

I was not born yesterday.

I stopped reading at "No idiot". Remain civil. We have enough worries without adding insults to strangers.

Stop being an idiot and I won't have to treat you like one.

Chill bro, sounds like you got your dick in a blender or something.

This thread is about a tweet of how NATO was going to use a downed commercial jet to invade Ukraine. As an excuse to go to war.

No, this thread is about gathering the communities thoughts about the incident.

This specific section of comments was about NATO.

When you have to play childish word games to try and make a point, it becomes very apparant that you have no actual point.

Grow the fuck up you fucking childish idiot.

I'd take your own advice.

if you really think the NATO is not US leaded, you really need to look into it.

That's still not the same as US troops. When you have to play word games in a feeble, pathetic attempt to make a point.... you should probably not say anything at all.

Of course the strongest, biggest most experienced military is going to take on a large prescence in the Alliance.

I mean, you're so smart. I would have never guessed that!

dont be mad bro. Just stating the facts.

It's not about the strongest, the NATOis leaded by the US since its creation and it's totally normal. As an US project and initiative against USSR during cold war

It's not about the strongest, the NATOis leaded by the US since its creation and it's totally normal

And they lead because they're the biggest and strongest.

Just the facts "bro", no need to be mad, "bro".

well I m not mad my friend.

They don't lead because they are the stronger, but because they are the reason it exists. "Western" organisation against "eastern" (the comies). Cold war =)

But it seems you just want to be right, so ...

Here you go: you are right on the internet sir.

Sure dude

No we have to wait until France falls and something bad happens on US soil to enter a world war

Nah they need the people to want it. To feel. This way public opinion is in their way.

I bet that's why Germany won the world cup and our ministers have been calling for arming the country the last few months ;)

Not much evidence backing him up. You could probably find a tweet about everything that could happen. Doesn't say much imo.

Well, he does say in a reply

Culprit in the face of Putin's militiamen and agent Will be detected Instantly.

Which is exactly what happened. With an hour a video had been released implicating them, and the ukrainian government was taking every media opportunity to call the russians out.

Seriously?

Let me know when you find one.

You can lead a horse to water. Whether it's thirsty or the water is stagnant are other questions.

imgur link

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Does this explain reasons why the bodies of victims have been treated in the manner they have. Allowing the crash site to be compromised, the delay to recover, and now storing the bodies box cars? I would think all of these things could throw off determining an accurate time of death...I dunno

This point needs to be researched with intense scrutiny. If it can be confirmed something really dark is going on. The blood draining part reminds me of Linda Moulton Howe's research and gave me chills to read. Thanks for bringing it up. Have an upvote.

So where did the original passengers go?

I wish I had the answer to that.

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This is the plot from an episode of the BBC's Sherlock. It's a dark day if intelligence agencies are taking ideas from TV shows rather than vice-versa.

Translated Comments.

SPOOKY

only SPOOKY if you believe the ramblings of a guy who worked for the people who shot down the plane

If he worked for them, this is a pretty serious piece of evidence. If someone had predicted 9/11 or any other terrorist incident in this fashion, they'd be wanted for questioning.

with the power of Google you can find people predicting any event. People predicted 9/11. Hell the Bush Admin got warnings how Osama was wanting to strike. The problem with predictions like this is it is CHERRY PICKED. This prediction is meaningless in the swarm, since it was one of thousands of wrong predictions made every day.

Plus no one even tries to verify if the twitter isn't faked. . .

Pretty sure "ruin" just means "wreckage".

Yeah but military planes have been shot down by pro Russian separatists so this person could have been talking about those planes

Hmm, he does specifically say "...stuffed full of innocent euro-tourists..."

I dunno, someone who speaks Russian should chip in on this.

who is the guy that tweeted that? Someones gotta know russian

Is it possible the tweet was relating to MH370?

Australian agencies on local news here are suggesting some of the worlds top AIDS and HIV Research Scientists have been lost in MH17

http://www.smh.com.au/national/crash-claims-top-aids-researchers-heading-to-melbourne-reports-20140718-zuaw3.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696643/Famous-Dutch-AIDS-researcher-Joep-Lange-reportedly-dead-Malaysian-flight-crash-way-conference-Melbourne.html

not the first prominent AIDS researcher to be killed on a plane intentionally taken down...

Dr. Johnathan Mann, WHO, AIDS Czar

SwissAir 111

Edit: Quoted in the Washington Post! Thanks Bezos!

What makes you think SwissAir 111 was intentionally taken down? Not trying to be blunt, but the Wikipedia page makes it look like it was a legitimate plane malfunction

This.

Read to the bottom

Is that legit?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live search for AIDS Australian media is JUST beginning to report it.

I just finished this book and am now persuaded that the history of AIDS/HIV is strikingly different than we are taught.

TL;DR ?

edit:

(that the New York Times refused to review)

Ah, one of those authors.

AIDS will bring billions in research, worthless drugs and vaccines,

Just No.

I'm watching via australian news here near melbourne.

That's the biggest load of pseudoscience I have ever read, comparable to bull shit anti vaxers.

108 AIDs researchers actually. 108, its fucking unreal.

HIV drug company conspiracy to maintain profits?

Interesting. This downing cooinsides with the flight 800 downing where a top AIDs researcer was lost. Note that the Malaysian flight went down on the anaversary of the flight 800 downing. Very ritualistic, and would point to western dark occultists downing the Malaysian flight to both take out more aids researchers and darken Russia's image with regards to the Ukrainian situation.

I am so putting "dark occultist" under my religious preference for any future paperwork.

Some distraction from the Israeli while helping out the TPP agreement by executing some top good will researchers. Sounds like this is indeed a conspiracy. Here's the link to the article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/aids-researcher-joep-lange-confirmed-among-dead-in-malaysia-jet-shoot-down/2014/07/17/4869c6a2-0e2d-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

I hope more people are making screenshots and copies of everything, because some interesting pics/videos are being deleted rather quickly

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its a nokia. forged in the fires of Keilaniemi, Espoo. it cannot be destroyed by mere mortals. its the best possible way to keep evidence intact.

It is, the One Nokia!

True, we used to throw ours around to demonstrate how sturdy they were.

Name one

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Name 3

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Name 6

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Your*

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[deleted]

[deleted]

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[deleted]

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Woosh

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Just as well as any iphone could

Too bad you're (probably) wrong. Assuming you have the nokia n95, a phone from 2007, then you're packing a 5 megapixel camera. The current iPhone packs an 8 megapixel camera with a fuckton of hardware and software advantages in other places.

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I'm brainwashed how? I figured your claim was bs, and research (wiki pages on those respective phones) proves me correct.

I don't own an iphone, but is it really that hard to believe that technology has advanced over 7 years?

Holy shit. You're not feeding the troll, you're throwing him a fucking feast!

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Yeah, I mean the Motorola dynatac 8000x is obviously just as good as iphones today, anybody who thinks different is completely brain washed.

Get your head out of your "anything capitalist is bad" ass

This isn't an iphone 5 vs an samsung galaxy 3. This is a modern phone vs one from 7 years ago.

Are you gonna tell me the motorola brick is at the same level as an iphone?

Translation: letsgohome54 has not worked for 7 years and is very poor.

Lol

Anyone got some links/sources?

The plane hadn't been on a route that travelled through that area in the recent past

This is not true, 75 planes went through the same airspace in the two days prior to the airline going down. In fact airlines went through immediately after and before of course, don't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy!

The link posted above is just a post from flightaware with this specific flight's information, and previous flights of mh17, and not the frequency of aircraft travel. Keep in mind MH17 may not fly the same exact pass everyday, its called weather.

This is true because the link from flightaware demonstrates the exact words I used. Don't let you interpretation of the situation cloud the words that I posted. MH17 hadn't flown in that area in a number of days. I made no reference to other flights. This may not be evidence of a "conspiracy" but it is a piece of the puzzle as to why this tragedy happened. The plane wouldn't have been in range of a BUK in that area if the flight had taken a route similar to one in the days prior.

it is evidence of nothing. Planes passed 40 minutes before and minutes after. .other planes.

Coming back from Chicago to Denver I went over Minneapolis. You know what its called? a flight plan . .shortest distance vs. aircraft safety . ..and smooth ride.

You get on there and make implications that mean nothing, don't get mad if people call you out on it.

Flight paths between certain areas change often.

Which is why it got shot down, because they fucked up and flew over a 'war' area.

Civilian planes go over war zones all the time without getting hurt. Typically they fly at an altitude where most guns cannot reach. In this case, nobody suspected that the rebels had such fire power.

The West want Putin dead

k

USA USA USA

Or, one of putins cronies took the plane down. both are incredibly likely. you seem to forget the part wherr putin is a fucking awful person to have in power.

Not at all, he's a good man trying to protect his people from the psychopathic Western bankers. Putin is a hero! Taking that plane down wouldn't benefit Putin, only the Western Bankers

Sure are reaching there without any supporting evidence.

Twitter account from spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine, reported 2 fighter jets near MH17. Account is down now.

Anyone has more screenshots? Here is one.

http://i.imgur.com/8YILn3x.png

https://twitter.com/spainbuca

Would those particular, available AA missiles be readied fast enough, or overall as effective on smaller, faster, lower craft?

A Spanish air controller working in Kiev wrote on Twitter that the plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter Jets minutes before the crash.

Twitter.com/spainbuca

Is it normal for fighter jets to escort a civilian plane through a war zone? (serious)

Civilian planes don't usually fly through war zones unless it's abolutely necessary. I'm sure Malaysia Airlines wouldn't direct their plane over the area if they knew such a thing was even possible.

I saw this post on Sydney Morning Herald:

9:23am: A Qantas spokeswoman told our reporter Eryk Bagshaw its Dubai to London route flies 740 kilometers south of the flight path that MH17 was shot down in.

The spokeswoman said the Dubai-London flight used to fly over the same route as MH17, but Qantas made a precautionary decision some months ago to no longer fly over the area. The spokeswoman was unable to comment on whether other One-World flight partners have continued to use the route.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-ukraine-near-russian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37ltr8V2v

The flight path of the HM17 was very irregular. In every previous flight, the plane was south of the Sea of Azov. There have also been numerous reports of Ukrainian fighters tailing civilian aircraft. So why did the pilot choose that more dangerous route? Who authorized the plane to redirect its path and why? There definitely seems to be more to this story.

the above is a little bit off. your using flightaware and not observations from aircraft control/etc

MH17 flew this flight path for one reason - it was CHEAPER for cash strapped malaysian airlines than taking the US/British based route to the south.

they thought they were safe though - "An industry source told The Telegraph: “The belief was that a plane could not be shot down at that altitude, which is why aircraft continue to fly over zones that have wars going on.”

with people assuming that the 33k was well above the missile range. guess we proved that one wrong.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-malaysia-airlines-was-flying-over-a-war-zone-2014-7

All of the other flights flew further south, typically around Crimea with the Sea of Azoz bordering it to the North East.

The nearest Airport in the area is Simferopol in the middle of the peninsula.

Here's the weather history for that day: http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/UKFF/2014/7/17/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Sevastopol%27&req_state=&req_statename=Ukraine

From about an hour before the shoot down there were thunderstorms in the area which continued for several hours. It's quite clear that the plane went further North to avoid the thunderstorm.

The flight was instructed to fly 2000 feet lower within UKR airspace as well source:

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/ukraine-traffic-controllers-instructed-mh17-to-fly-lower-mas-says

Qantas and other major airlines are run a bit more effectively than MA.

That's bullshit, planes fly over Afghanistan daily.

Majority of airlines uses the same route over ukrain, so no its nothing unusual about the route.

My ex was on a flight to Florida and two jets came either side of the plane, chilled for a bit, then off they went. It was maybe 6 months after 9/11 mind you.

Is there terrorists in the plane?

I feel safer already.

She said there were two hill billies that got on in the UK. Fully fledged with the dungarees and straw hats and everything. But really very clean, also, carrying briefcases and wearing sunglasses. I always told her, if it was secret service, you wouldn't have even noticed them. So what the hell were two hill billies doing all dappered up in London? Imagine the next efit of terrorism to be a red neck in dungarees.

So the planes flew by, looked through the windows, saw they was cool, and left.

God bless America.

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Mind control is real.

This is bullshit, civilian planes regularly fly over war zones. This is so unreasonable an act, that airlines were not even worried.

Yes.

No - the WARZONE was considered safe to air travel and wasn't closed.

Plus - and if this is true we would know it, not from the Spanish ATC but from the same people who verified a missile launch/watched it approach the target (US radar from what I understand)

The Russian Minister of Defense gave a presser presenting the radar evidence of the interaction between the military jet and MH-17 at the time it was shot down. http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-russian-military-finally-speaks.html

A Spanish air controller working in Kiev wrote on Twitter that the plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter Jets minutes before the crash.

Why am I thinking of Flight 93 over Shanksville?

If that were the case, then where was the wreckage in Shanksville?

Uh. then they shot it down or it wasn't what they are claiming it was.

Could some1 translate this plz (on mobile and can't read Spanish)

I will only mention the most important information he´s said,and in order, i took in account the time they were sent and stated it if i though it was important, it was done very quickly im sorry if i make some grammar errors:

The planes crashes (sent 8 hours ago)

Kiev authorities are trying to make it look like it was done by rebels.

It might have been taken down (sent 8 hours ago)

He mentions military personnel from Kiev got to the control tower and there´s foreign people with them.

He says two fighter jets escorted the plane until three minutes before it disappearead.

As soon as the plane disappeared the military personnel informed the people on the control tower that it was taken down, then he says it took hem seven minutes after it disappeared.

It was recorded on the radars that it was taken down by Kiev, they know it and the miitary personnel know it.

The military personnel are saying it was done by someone in the army they dont know whom, but certainly it wasnt pro-russian.

The minister of interior knew what the jets were doing there but the defense minister didnt.

The military personnel (MP from here on) confirm it was shot down by ukraine,but dont know where the order came from.

He says he mentioned in previous tweets that some MP are against the actual ukranian president.

Militar control officially confirms it was shot down (sent 3 hours ago).

He says the official reports doesnt mention where the missile came from but it wasnt from autodefense on rebel areas.

The high commanders are saying it came from the army but dont know where the order came from.

The MP at the orders of the minister of interior knew everything that was going on at any time.

The MP confirm it was taken down by ukraine.

Some MPs knew everything about what was going on, some didnt.

The way the MPs took control of the command tower minutes after it happened and them knowing all the detais made us think it was them.

The "what have you done?" face of the MPs that arrived later didnt leave any doubt.

The MPs that are accompanied by foreign people are asking the people in the control tower to tell their version.

Our response was this radars dont pick up on missil signals, but military do, there isnt any doubt left.

The military report states where the missile came from, which is false.

If theres something new i will translate it. I know some thing dont make sense because of the chronology but i just translated what he said

Edit 1 : Some formatting. Edit 2: More formatting, corrected some gramatical errors and changed interior minister to minister of interior.

Edit 3: apparently i cant see his tweets now or follow him, does someone have access?

Tnx, if this is true its breaking

yes actually there are several comments from journalist asking him to speak with them.

Mirror

Doesn't seem to exist anymore. Any screenshots?

http://s1.postimg.org/3yijsqklb/escorted.png

Important.

Was that removed, I can't access the link.

It was removed because it was fake disinfo.

Putin was in the air at around the same time ... it is possible someone thought this was his plane

Route crashed plane took:

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53c80549eab8ea4401a32dc0-790-433/screen%20shot%202014-07-17%20at%201.17.15%20pm.png

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added.

Source: RT

Hoooly shit, imagine if Putin's plane got shot down.

This shits starting to sound way too much like a rejected Modern warfare script.

If only. The world would be one despot fewer.

You know nothing would change for the better if Putin died in office, right?

of course no despote in the land of the free...

Putin seized Crimea without firing a single bullet. He is a benevolent leader.

Bullshit. he used civilians as shields as he ordered his green men into bases. if he was benevolent and peaceful he would A) npt use civilians as shields and b) not have ordered them there in the first place.

And it worked because the Ukrainian's were thoughtful, which is more than I can say for Israel... lol.

Ukraine would have been wiped off the map and spark WWIII most likely.

I wish.

This seems like the most important piece of info yet.

The flight path of the HM17 was very irregular. In every previous flight, the plane was south of the Sea of Azov. There have also been numerous reports of Ukrainian fighters tailing civilian aircraft. So why did the pilot choose that more dangerous route? Who authorized the plane to redirect its path and why? There definitely seems to be more to this story.

Interesting. Looking at the flight paths of the plane in the last week don't seem that odd, they follow the same path KL to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to KL.

But while flying near Black Sea or Ukraine, all past flight paths divert course purposefully in this area. Their not completely the same not too off course.

Flight path a week before shot down - 07/11/2014 06:36PM MYT

Sunday - 07/13/2014 05:47AM MYT

Wednesday - 07/16/2014 05:54AM MYT

Friday (path and location shot down) - 07/17/2014 06:30PM MYT

Edit: looking at the last photo the path looks diverted way further to the original previous flight paths. It was intentional and perfectly steady cruising.

This is interesting but I don't think it really proves anything, looking at the last one and the one the next farthest north, it's just about as far up from the farthest one south. So as this is the farthest north I think you could still chalk it up to slight deviations in flight pattern that could result from other air traffic and weather.

What were the flight paths of other airlines on the same, or similar flight paths? I know that it isn't easy, but it would provide a larger sample size and show if there was really anything unusual or if it was just flying the same route that a KLM or Lufthansa flight went.

i've seen maps that showed a bunch of flights going through that area (MH17 going down) that day. Weather created a channel of flights there. . . .and a bunch took it

You can't /shouldn't just look at MH17 but look at the "river" of planes that day. . .tells a different story.

[deleted]

The thread says "share your thoughts", not "we know what happened".

Nobody is saying it isn't speculation.

Take a deep breath dude.

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Do you realize what sub you are in?

Speculation is fun. I don't care if people discuss a tragedy and speculate as to what happened.

If you really are that upset about people speculating, I think you are the one who's pathetic.

Its really refreshing to actually read this comment in this sub. Is it not what conspiracy is all about? Some we know, some we talk about.

Speculation just lets uncredible theories circulate and gain traction. It's literally the essence of misinformation. Again, pathetic.

That's cool. Please feel free to turn on your TV and wait patiently to be told what to think by the "authorities", waving your little flag (whatever flag that is).

This is pure speculation - good for what? Pathetic.

Conspiracy Theories are pure speculation, it's what this entire subreddit is about. We aren't the fucking news. We just read it and analyze it.

It ultimately doesn't mean anything and most of us do it simply because we enjoy piecing things together and seeing what unfolds.

Now, onto the main points.

Fairly sure separatists claimed responsibility

Are you fucking serious? You accuse us of speculating and spreading misinformation when there hasn't been a single article that claims that the Pro-Russian Ukrainians took credit for the missile!?

then immediately retracted after they realized it was a commercial plane.

If that's the case, the US and the International media would be ALL THE FUCK OVER THAT. They aren't.

No one knows who fired the missile. Regardless of what the data reveals, Russia and Kiev will point fingers at each other.

I'll call this like I see it. If the news shifts to the Gaza conflict and everyone gets quiet about Ukraine, you will know for a fact that Kiev fired that fucking missile, to try and take a shot at Putin. Can't blame them for wanting him out of the picture but, it wouldn't surprise me if they goofed.

Puppet governments are VERY bad at dealing with shit because they're too concerned about lining their own pockets. Mass executions and labor camps, they can do...Anything with finesse requires competence and a competent puppet government is an oxymoron.

Look at Iraq! You can give a government ALL the fucking tools to get the job done but, if you throw a bunch of corrupt "Yes-Men" in charge, you will always get the same results.

An utter clusterfuck.

U know there was a phone call right that had the russian rebels in it..........orrrr are you retarded they litterally admitted it and were scanning the rubble and communicating with a russian general.....

Iraq is more of a clusterfuck because of our for profit Blackwater gang of mercenaries and Obama's weakness than anything else.

I think he was referring to Saddam's government.

Uhhhh....you do know you are in the "conspiracy THEORY" subreddit....right?

Go look up what theory means, the earth going around the sun is a theory.

....no that is proven fact at this point...what the fuck are you smoking?

Also, the definition of theory is in the sidebar, clearly you don't understand the meaning.

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people are dead

I always see this excuse. Wouldn't it be fair, to propose that if what was told as the official story turned out to be a lie, that such a situation is more offensive to the victims? That actually doing your own investigation is indeed the farthest thing from being disrespectful to those victims?

Imagine if it turned out a Government entity actually was the guilty party in an event. Would you say it's disrespectful to the victims that they lied about it? I sure would.

more likely: some punk edited the status to watch nuts like you freak out.

Disregarding the offensive nature of this comment, but the burden of proof is now on you to prove this assertion. Is it even possible to "edit the status"? I can't seem to find anywhere on the site where I could do such a thing.

EDIT

I love how argumentative cowards always delete their comments out of embarrassment.

I can't remember the young troll-accounts name but he had nothing positive to add and was being overtly hostile as well as willfully ignorant of the topic at hand.

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Seems to me both sides of the argument have legitimate reason for concern, and you somewhat are using the dead as an excuse to not talk about it in that sense.

How do you know to a certainty the flight wasn't cancelled? All you need to do is prove the Flight tracker has been tempered with.

The loss of life can still be a factor, if the flight was cancelled with the passengers on board, and they are still missing, there is very real potential for some kind of conspiracy.

More likely than "someone changing it to fuck with nut jobs", as that would likely result in a loss of their job, it could be that "cancelled" is a better term than "shot down over a war zone." But even that seems unlikely. Shouldn't they have a special designation for situations like this?

[deleted]

You said:

more likely: some punk edited the status to watch nuts like you freak out.

As a response to this link, So, I asked you to prove it was changed. You avoided answering this, and instead said:

the flight wasn't cancelled

This is why I said:

How do you know it wasn't cancelled

Nothing philosophical about it. All I asked was for your explanation on how this "punk" changed what the flight radar says in order to "fuck with nut jobs". I even gave an alternate explanation for why it says cancelled.

I'm not the one who needs to get the fuck out.

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I'm not acting like I know what happened, You are. I wasn't there.

It seems you're purposefully avoiding the actual question, which was not:

"if this says it was cancelled, then what crashed? What was shot down?"

But instead:

"Why does the link provided say the flight was cancelled?"

Do you have reading comprehension?

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"Why does the link provided say the flight was cancelled?"

Barring your extremely shitty comparison and misinterpretation of what I said, that is the question being asked, to which your best answer is:

more likely: some punk edited the status to watch nuts like you freak out.

Which is pure speculation. If you're just going to continue lobbing ad hominem attacks then you are not really worth conversing with.

[deleted]

Wow... Whatever dude.

/r/mypussyhurts probably has some threads more your speed.

/r/worldnews is leaking again

So this would be potentially interesting as it's the only post in this thread to give a reason for why someone would intentionally shoot down this plane, but the reason itself doesn't actually make sense. What would Ukraine gain by shooting down Putin's plane? Surely Russia would see the assassination of their leader as an act of war (and rightfully so). It would basically guarantee Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine, and it would mean the Ukrainians wouldn't get another cent of US money. And for what gain? None. None at all.

It would ONLY benefit russia, and eastern Ukraine seperatists

Whereas this only benefits Ukraine.

yeah - Putin wasn't targeted. That #@#@ wouldn't sail if they did.n Your 100% right.

As a former Yugoslavia citizen I can tell you some things about that. Yugoslavia was a 3rd power in the world, with the 3rd largest army and a fully functional socialist model not seen anywhere in the world. During times of Stalin and Nixon, people of Yugoslavia lived in an almost utopia like society. However, all the different nations were held together by one man only, Josip Broz Tito. When he died Yugoslavia was dismantled politically, then their member states plunged into war with eachother. It was a silent coup by the west, and even Chomsky wrote about Yugoslavia being one successful socialist model in the world.

Putin has been in office for 16 years now in Russia, I shudder to think what would happen if he were killed somehow and the oligarchs get hold of its governing process. It would be WW3 no doubt about it.

Very much doubt about it. Yugoslavia descended into civil war because it was a patchwork of ethnic groups. Russia doesn't share a makeup anything like that. Who do you think will be fighting whom in this Russian civil war?

They don't need Russia to fight anyone, all they need is another cold war. America lives on war economy, hence the fiat currency, which was first instituted in WW1 to fund the war.

But why would Putin's death lead to another Cold War? If anything, it would probably smooth relations with the US. A lot of US politicians really hate Putin.

Thats a pretty ignorant statement, considering the US is a failing empire that feeds on war and plundering resources.

It needs another cold war to excuse increasing surveillance and eroding of freedoms daily. The US citizens need to wake up to the reality that their rouge government is causing mayhem all over the world and stop them, or be stopped.

Looking at your comments now I see you're very hardline on your stance, maybe even paid for it. Feigning ignorance is common among shills everywhere, be it deliberate or unintentional, it is stil ignorance.

Man, that would be awesome to be paid to call out people on their bullshit on Reddit. Alas, I just understand that the United States government isn't a single, monolithic entity with one set of priorities or values.

Its not?

Yeah I posted a similar sorry in /r/Russia.

Why would Russia or Pro-Russian separatists shoot down a plane that looks and has the colors of a Russian presidential plane?

People don't stop and think.

this...this is retarded.

who gives a shit how the aircraft look? At 12 miles it is at the edge, if not beyond human visual range. hell the closest the plane could pass would be 6 miles...its 200 feet long...you will never see the colors. it would be smaller than the dot that is this period.

Also WTF. the planes were near each other in poland (wait whats that, they were in the same grid about an HOUR apart...so in reality no where near eachother). who gives a shit? at 550 mph the closest they came was about a rhode island (long ways) apart

These kinds of missiles use sophisticated guidance systems. What is visible to the naked eye is meaningless.

I agree, and yet the article was trying to push that they look alike. i was pointing out it doesn't matter that they look alike.

you know they make pretty good binoculars and telescopes these days.

Kinda got to be able to see it in the first place.

Indian PM was also on the same route from a successful BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) meeting. 55 min difference, per a FB post, by his party person (Subramamia Swamy).

http://i.imgur.com/89w76cv.jpg

Interesting, the Mail Online ran a story about possible conspiracy theories. If you are going to discredit a story, wouldn't it be near the top?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697293/From-CIA-assassination-cock-nefarious-Illuminati-involvement-The-MH17-conspiracy-theories-doing-internet-rounds.html

This is what the Russian's want us to believe. . .its right from their propaganda mill. I wonder if its true - that Putin was anywhere near that.

If Putin flew over, as claimed, he took a big chance. Since what i'm reading from this shoot down the dip#@@ on the ground couldn't tell a military from a commercial jet - not sure how they would of known it was Putin.

That would be awesome, if the damn Ukraine separatists shot down Putin. A lot better than who they ended up taking down.

[deleted]

Yeah but tweets and videos posted today (with English text) apparently showing rebels with BUK missiles are completely reliable. Fucking hell. Have you been paying attention to the Snowden leaks? I don't suppose you have.

[deleted]

RT is, frankly, full of shit; it's a mouthpiece for the Russian government. 99% chance that this was an accidental shoot-down by rebels using Russian hardware, and now Russia is scrambling to deflect attention away form it.

So your saying there is a Chance?

Says RT is full of shit

Still has 1% chance.

Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

But in all seriousness, yes, it could have been the Ukranian military. But the more we hear, the more it seems like Russia was responsible (and is desperately trying to cover it up)

My issue with this is, why would they take down his plane. That would start a war they can't win. Doesn't make sense

Bingo! The West want Putin 6 feet under

why would Russian rebels/Russian special forces, fighting for Russia, want to shoot down a plane with the Russian president on board?

Maybe it wasn't Russian rebels?

Or maybe it was, and Russia really wants to deflect attention from that

But the news said it was. /s

Aren't they capable of false flag attacks too? If they kill the Russian President and blame it on Ukraine, then they would finally have full support from the world for Russia to take over Ukraine.

I doubt Putin'd be up for that.

I blame obama.

What? Who said the plane was taken out by Russian rebels? The jet was apparently struck at an altitude of 10km. Russian rebels don't have the capability to strike planes at that altitude. The Donetsk rebels only have MANPADs which can target aircraft at 3 to 4km max. However the Buk division of the Ukraine armed forces was reportedly relocated to Donetsk region on Wednesday. Buk missiles can hit targets at more than 10km.

There are videos of russian rebels with buks, they've tweeted they used them to shoot down a plane and the same time this happened...

No they didn't. Locals on social media saw the crashed plane, filmed it and said a Ukraine cargo plane was downed.

This was posted on militia leader Igor Girkin Russian's 'Russian Facebook' page (Cam Strelkov) by people who run his page.

As they state on the their page HERE this was not information from Strelkov himself - as his posts are marked/highlighted with banners indicating when it is him posting. Similar to when Obama or whoever signs his tweets with his initials.

However this has not stopped Western media reporting that a militia leader claimed he took out the plane then deleted the post.

Keep sucking up the propaganda and ignore the facts if you wish.

[deleted]

Is there reason to believe this occurred, can you provide me with something other than it being a possibility?

There was a tweet by one of the leaders, (correct me if i am wrong shortly) after it happened that he soon deleted. saying they took out another Ukraine military plane. they made a mistake.

He's a mole.

OK so ignore the facts that I've stated and go by an alleged tweet? OK I'll play the game. Where did you hear this story? Fox? How did they strike this plane at 10km?

Its all over the web now, videos and pics of that BUK launcher rolling in that region. Its even mentioned in top comments of default subreddits at news and worldnews.

Rebels don't have BUK launchers. Ukraine does. They deployed them there on Wednesday.

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/military-specialist-russian-rebels-with-buk-vehicle-seen-nearby-before-mh17

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/uk-ukraine-crisis-airplane-idUKKBN0FM1U420140717

Ukrainian Interior Ministry official Anton Gerashchenko said on Facebook: "Just now, over Torez, terrorists using a Buk anti-aircraft system kindly given to them by Putin have shot down a civilian airliner flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eqtwaDOjD4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5Gs3c0ICQ

So the "rebels not having buks" idea seems bunk now, they clearly do, there are videos of it.

How convenient that these videos are posted today and in English calling the rebels Russian terrorists. Seriously? Check the sources. There is absolutely no way to verify this footage but as it fits your narrative you are quite happy to accept. Anything to bash the Russians right? You realise Ukraine forces reportedly moved BUK missiles to the region on Wednesday?

I don't have a specific narrative friend, I simply provided you with some links, you provided a "nuh uh" if you have evidence to suggest this isn't the case please do present it. I have no dog in this fight, I was merely pointing out that the rebel groups clearly tweeted in celebration that they did this, thinking it was a cargo plane, then removed the tweet. That's all over the internet, clearly not faked. I'll await proof that this is false.

I was merely pointing out that the rebel groups clearly tweeted in celebration that they did this

No they didn't. Locals on social media saw the crashed plane, filmed it and said a Ukraine cargo plane was downed then posted in a forum that rebels had downed a Ukraine plane.

This was posted on militia leader Igor Girkin Russian's 'Russian Facebook' page (Cam Strelkov) by people who run his page.

As they state on the their page HERE this was not information from Strelkov himself - as his posts are marked/highlighted with banners indicating when it is him posting. Similar to when Obama or whoever signs his tweets with his initials.

However this has not stopped Western media reporting that a militia leader claimed he took out the plane then deleted the post. Just because something is 'all over the internet' and repeated over and over by Western media does not make it true.

The definition of spin.

maybe, but you are going to need to say something other than that. I don't form opinions or conclusions based on an assumption.

Trust me ;-)

(I'm on a phone right now, more text later I promise)

deleted tweet about BUK

I see a photo of BUK missiles. And?

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/cj0367n

Do you really think the rebels were carrying one of these missiles around?

Yes

I read this too, Yeah before this happened the Rebels took out a SU-25. Those have Flares and cannot be killed with a Manpad Igla stinger thingy.

However those Buks came from Ukraine not Russia as far as I can tell, they were stolen from a base or two. same story for the Manpads, it only makes sense to keep an Anit-air unit stocked with both.

I'm just learning about the jet fighter escort.

This is the key info, this shoot down was an attempted assassination of Putin by Kiev/NATO. The reports that Eastern 'rebels' shot it down is likely disinfo.

Oh I bet the US and Russia know exactly who shot the plane down. They have amazing Spy satellites that record a certain number of hours, of which they can/could go back and see the exact point of launch.

The game continues.

Obama and Putin were in contact within 30 minutes of the impact. I'm pretty sure both know exactly what happened.

Remember the video of Obama talking to the Russian guy about having more flexibility after the election? I never thought much if it but its becoming more and more relevant.

Don't give Obama so much credit. The guy might be another greedy cunt, but he is clearly hanging on for his in a sea of greedy cunts 10 times bigger than himself. You think Obama himself is running the show? His wife would like to have a with you. The dude has aged 20 years in 10 months.

Such comments are how international diplomacy is achieved. Don't be foolish.

"Russian guy" He was talking to Putin & they didn't know the mic was on.

Pretty sure it wasn't Putin but rather Medvedev

Link?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sHiHxCNA_2c

ah the old "Obama is a KGB agent" conspiracy.

What theory does this fit into?

The theory that both probably told each other what they knew and are now in damage control and trying to formulate a response.

Why would they be working together?

The show must go on.

Possibly. But I definitely think US knows what happened to the plane that dissappeared.

I'm sure the US has some amazing tech that we can only dream about right now. I've seen some future tech articles and videos that show drones flying over cities with a recording area of 25 square miles + up to 12hrs record time, so it is TIVO in the sky.

Well Imagine what spy sats are up there, recording conflict areas and being able to see where everyone is at any given time in full color or high def B&W. I mean, come on! I bet they know.

The technology that you are talking about has been publicly revealed so imagine all the classified technology that is available to them that they will not reveal to keep an advantage over others.

True! So much more secret, amazing, tech that we will learn about many years down the road.

This is true to an extent, but in this day and age it's nothing like it used to. The gap as closed as we shifted from the 20th to the 21st century. Maybe during the 60's and 70's there would have been these huge gaps in the public awareness of "advanced" technology, but these days it's extremely hard to keep secrets to the point that it's not even worth it in most cases. You have to remember that private corporations are the ones innovating whatever advanced technology might be in question, not the government in and of itself. It's also worth noting that the line between private corporations and public government is extremely blurred in this age.

some people think there is a god. There is a lot of room in this world for all kinds of faiths. . .

I think if the US Govt knew, we would be excavating it already. Nobody messes with Uncle Sam's biggest friend BOEING AT ANY TIME.

That's right, if your going to make a conspiracy theory don't make one up that puts the biggest of the military industry complex look bad.

Russia has presented their military radar data and is demanding the USA present its satellite data. Both sides know exactly what happened. Only one side is presenting what it knows.

A certain number you say? You talk shit.

No, these numbers are sound.

Mr.NSA man.

As a Malaysian, and MAS staff, this is a very tough time for us. First, it was MH370, and now its MH17 furthermore, we are in the middle of a financial meltdown. The timing couldn't be any worse as we are preparing our self for war against the Philippine insurgencies.

Will update you guys once any information is deemed to be save to be release to the public. (Malaysia have very strict Secrecy Act, i don want to take chances or i'll end up in prison)

Sorry dude, but please elaborate on Philippine insurgencies? I'm a Filipino and I haven't heard of this

Are you referring to the Sabah incident?

Yeah bro. I shouldn't have said the Philippine insurgencies. Should have said MILF. Heard rumors that since the latest abduction case the MILF have come better prepared, even engaging Malaysian Navy in a shootout.

That's an unfortunate acronym.

rd rumors that since the latest abduction case the MILF have come better prepared, even engaging Malaysian Navy in a shootout.

I'd love to be invaded by MILFs.

Filipino MILFs can be a bitch.

I somehow think the incidents are related. They just couldn't cover this one up. But they probably shot the other down too.

Who is shooting down MH planes and for what purpose? I find the thought fascinating.

Its a well known fact that during MH370 that our ex Prime Minister said in a well documented press statement that there are "foul play" from the bigger countries. He was referring to the US

From my side, that document are far beyond my paycheck.

From where i stand, from the documents in my possession or i read, i agree with u

Is MAS on the brink of bankruptcy?

Even before MH370 MAS are heavily in debt.

Dear Dude, get Tails on a USB stick and boot from there. link is here ; https://tails.boum.org/ - but open it from a public computer outside your local area.

Then do an AMA :)

Btw, if MAS is in financial trouble, that makes you.. corruptable. Fly there and there then and then with these and these people, we'll give you xx million dollarz.

For what value of XX would MAS say yes?

Because the guy who inherited the patent that was invented by the people on MH370 certainly has enough dollars for whatever number MAS could , or apparantly has, come up with.

There are three major questions:

1. ​Why was MH17 flying through a war zone where 10 aircraft have been shot down?
2. Why 2 Ukrainian fighters were seen following Malaysian jet minutes before the crash?
3. Why Ukraine's air traffic controllers instructed MH17 to fly lower?

President Poroshenko has some serious explaining to do.

Edit: Russia wants Ukraine to answer 10 questions

Great summary, hopefully the truth comes out. But it appears the info wars is firing on all cylinders. Hopefully the Spanish airtraffic controller isn't disappeared.

okay - of all the news article you would quote. . .why Russian. They are backing the people who shot down the plane; have long controlled their media; and its in their best interest to use their state controlled media in that way

2 jets followed MH17 - interesting. . .but I'm not taking russia's word on it

You're not going to take Russia's word for it- because the American media is so non biased, right?

Human beings are biased. . .but US Media is not owned or controlled in any significant way by the US, Canadian governments.

Do not confuse natural and human bias with state controlled media.. . .or even the level of bias of Fox News (news you want to hear, tailored for you). Its very different than the state controlled media of Russia.

The media is in a frenzy today.

We must remember 1 thing, When they have a lot of things to show you, it means there is something they don't want you to look at.

With the cryptome dump most likely happening tomorrow, i am not surprised with this media hype we are experiencing today.

http://benswann.com/cryptome-remaining-snowden-docs-will-be-released-to-avert-unspecified-us-war-in-july/

Or, you know, Israel just put boots on the ground in Gaza.

That's actually heavily reported on in American TV news, so it is another distraction too.

[deleted]

What? Why was this comment even necessary?

Funny how it is all becoming more clear now eh?

What? Something is happening everyday. You can't just say that every tragedy is a diversion. Or else there would be a tragedy twice a day just to keep up.

you should really look at the history of false flag opperations.

You made the WP http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/07/18/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-webs-many-mh17-conspiracy-theories/

You famous now,n igga!

The Magic 777s

Mh17 (one seven) - a 777 has been flying for 17 (one seven) years, was shot down during the 17th (one seven) day of the 7th month of 2014. 2+0+1+4=7

295 "souls on board" (Anderson cooper's words) 2+9+5=16 then 1+6 =7

A lot of 7s.

Not sure if anyone watched the "number 7" video that was posted last week. Christine Lagrade, the chief of the IMF had some pretty cryptic uses of the number 7. Can't link now, but if some can, I'll reward you with one full upvote. :)

Edit: I currently have 7 upvotes! See, proof of something going on!

Half Life 3 confirmed.

Best possible response to this nuttiness.

<Half Life 7 confimed>

~hangs head

Seems there's a lot of that going these days.

WTF?

"I see banned people!"

Am... am I shadowbanned?

Freeman! 7 letters!

G-Man is Gabe

Gabe Newell is Illuminati, confirmed

THAT'S NUMBERWANG

Fuck me that was brilliantly placed.

Wow! Thanks for your thoroughness!

I don't want to sound like a wowser, but is the whole "7" thing a real link to the crash or are you guys just having a bit of fun

Half life 3 confirmed?!

Occultists love numerology. Not sayin', just sayin'.

Occultists love numerology. Not sayin', just sayin'.

Exactly - numerology, esoteric symbolism, etc.

There is no question that many of the most powerful people on earth (and through history) are totally obsessed with this stuff - the evidence is everywhere, from art to architecture to writings that go back millennia.

Do I believe in it? Do you?

Irrelevant.

Point is that many very powerful people believe, and they are the ones that can make shit happen.

The powers that be play with this number shit and have been through time...they are 7's, while we are 6's.

Fair enough

To add: did you see the video where the head of the IMF openly discussed numerology and centered her entire speech around the number "7"? Pretty bizarre stuff no matter which way you spin it.

Edit: Here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

Thanks ill check it out after work

Aleister Crowley.

[deleted]

Huh? He could have just linked the video on its own, but instead opted to include additional info to emphasize a point I was trying to make.

[deleted]

Yeah but I thought hardcore day was July 20th, 2014....

Yes. It is.

I don't want to burst your magnificent bubble (no sarcasm) but is this not always the case? 9/11, flight 11, 11 crew members on board, hit towers stood as 11, NY was the 11th state to ratify the United States Constitution. the twin towers took 11 years to build. 9+1+1=11, September 11th was hundred days to the end of the year. 1111 multiplied by 1111 is 1234321 a pyramid number. 4 being the top.

You know where I got this info, but it seems to be a trend.

Edit; Point well made. So it is just bollocks then. You can grab any number from any situation and make it work.

Ok, now try it with 23...

I feel like the superstitious 7 thing is a huge distraction, that is, unless some of these elite worldwide pagan organizations made a sacrifice because their 7-headed god threw a hissy fit.

[deleted]

one spike through each wrist + spike through each ankle = 4 spike wounds. plus 2 spear wounds makes 6. So, maybe 6 is the number of death?

[deleted]

I know, I've read the book

[deleted]

5 is the number of death. Jesus had 5 wounds, 2 spear wounds + 3 spike wounds

In your first post, you said two stab wounds. I was just pointing out an inaccuracy with a sarcastic response

wow

17 is the 7th prime number.

Thank you!

It's mutual

Battery percentage??

http://i.imgur.com/oh2m2Hu.jpg

[deleted]

And shit posting in /r/Conspiracy won't help your low self esteem.

[deleted]

I agree 100% on the numerology thing. ANYBODY can find ANY connection between numbers if they really try.

The only reason why I am ANY bit convinced about the significance of numbers/numerology this year/this month/within these current circumstances is because the fucking HEAD OF THE IMF gave a long speech discussing numerology and the "magic number 7" (!!!). The head of the IMF is a pretty fucking serious position. Don't you find it kind of strange that somebody in such a high position of power would go out of her way to entertain batshit crazy OCD/schitzo conspiratards if there wasn't SOME significance to it? We're talking about the GLOBAL ECONOMY here. http://youtu.be/QYmViPTndxw

Maybe its how they communicate? You can say all sorts of secrets like this, its like an old school encryption scheme. I also find this is strange, but there is so much we don't really know, and when the head of the IMF starts speaking occult languages, it has to make you wonder...

I agree. But, even if the head of the IMF buys into this stuff, does that make it any more relevant? Seems to me like the IMF could ply their trade regardless of magic numbers

Yeah its so retarded the fifth most powerful woman in the world, managing director of the IMF Christine Lagarde does it

Reagan's wife was into astrology

Yes? So is Christine Lagarde's, and she is head of the IMF.

Spoken like someone who has no idea about numerology, numbers, and their importance.

Importance to whom? Whoever orchestrated this crash?

Spoken like someone who has no idea about numerology, numbers, and their importance.

[deleted]

I feel bad because I am active in this sub and explore all possibilities but I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. I am just reminded about that episode of South Park lol.

[deleted]

okay that's the part that got me after quite. quite convenient-->convenient store-->7-11 haha

"If we're going to shoot down this plane to mislead the public, we should at least make sure it all adds up to one number"

really dude?

Yup. Nobody will suspect a thing.

If there was occult significance, then yes.

what makes you think there is, besides all the numberwang?

No, that's all there is.

Just checked. It's 670 weeks and 2 days from 9/11

[deleted]

[deleted]

Edit: I currently have 7 upvotes! See, proof of something going on!

I'd upvote, but you're on a roll, and I don't want to spoil it!

At the time I read this post, it was posted 7 hours ago.

July (17)

Awesome!

I used to do a lot of the same numerology stuff. It's always interesting to look through.

Looking for patterns doesn't really mean anything...

It happened 132 days after MH370 2 x 3 + 1 = 7

Nice one!

I downvoted you so you would stay at 7 just FYI

Thanks!!

flight 370
on 3/7
on a 3700km flight plan
at 37000 feet.

4560 days after sept. 11

37⁴ - 1 /4560 = 411

For what its worth, "souls on board" is a standard term used to describe the number of people on the plane.

there was this hilarious videos. Like shaft or something. . .where they start adding and changing and going on "Athena, as everyone knows. . God of war, and war starts with W and"

it was hilarious. . .God I can't find it. . but thats exactly what this 7 stuff sounds like.

Crowley.

My first thought when the israeli ground invasion and a boeing 777 go down on the same day was The Guard's IMF speech about numerology and the number 7.

Also - what height was the plane flying at? 33,000 ft...

*Lagarde

Touché

It was 133 days after the first flight went down. 1+3+3=7

computer hackers did it?

This is good info. All the previous flights between the same destinations took a different route. Flight MH17 was the only one in the past week to fly over the Ukraine/Russia Border. All the other flights went through the Sea. Interesting.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140706/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

The other image is from another flight tracking site that says the flight was canceled:

http://www.flightradar24.com/flight/mh17 -screenshot if link isn't working http://i.imgur.com/yz6e071.png

And this guy who is an air traffic controller: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&amp;tl=en&amp;js=y&amp;prev=_t&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;u=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fspainbuca&amp;edit-text=

the above is how a good conspiracy theory gets started. do a little internet searching. .get some out of context information. . .and then run with it (only MH17 went through this space)

In the days leading up the MH17 a LOT of planes went through that space

US, Europe,and British avoided the space but a lot of planes based in other countries (like Russia) flew over that space. just look online. . .easy to get a list. Why was MH17 flying over a war zone

because its cheaper

if anyone is to blame, its malaysian airlines

and stupid people shooting rockets at jets they don't know what they are

Your last link is borked.

This is part of what really happened. Disregard the rest, it's disinfo.

Im doing the best to document everything that seems legit!

Is it possible to get an idea if other flights with different destinations going through the region also avoided the conflict zones?

Maybe it was pilot error that led the plane over this dangerous region, which in turn made the separatists think it was an Antonov military plane, as normally there wouldn't be any passenger jets there.

Well, yeah, there was that Notice to Airmen.

His account is gone.

[deleted]

you have got to be kidding me about the spreading AIDS part...I don't usually judge /r/conspiracy but holy fuck man...

[deleted]

[deleted]

Homoslavians inject an enzyme into each others bung holes that breaks down the immune system. An enzyme that only occurs genetically in homoslavians even though being a homoslavian is a choice Source: http://www.minnpost.com/party-politics/2014/07/minnesota-house-candidate-makes-aids-gay-agenda-campaign-issues

[deleted]

Are you implying that if a top AIDS researcher dies in a plane crash, waves of AIDS will emanate from the boss's death?

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

Actually I am. Thanks for asking.

[deleted]

What do you carry in your briefcase?

are you?

[deleted]

no, you aren't.

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

Please explain to me the flaws in my theory?

It relies on the assumption that AIDS researchers on their way to attend a conference would have HIV samples in their luggage. That assumption is, not to put too fine a point on it, fucking mental.

I am.

You can't carry a pathogen on a passenger plane. It's illegal.

You could always try to smuggle it, but that's a bad idea. Luggage is x-rayed. That would kill or extremely damage your samples.

Not to mention HIV is a fragile virus that cannot surive long in the enviroment, let alone an explosion followed by crashing into the earth. Not to mention a lot of wreckage is still smoldering and fire is a very good way to kill a virus.

If it magically makes it to the ground....now what? Someone would have to get large amounts of the virus in an open wound. The timetable for this is pretty shot. Even the hardiest viruses can't survive forever outside of a host and HIV won't last an hour.

Shoot down a plane, infect Europe with AIDS!

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiratard] Top minds in action. MAS17 was shot down to spread AIDS into the war zone

^{If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.}

If the crash was in any way related to the AIDS experts on board, spreading it would be a completely ridiculous reason, more likely would be delaying breakthroughs in AIDS research, sponsored by Big Pharma.

But I think it's much more likely there is no conspiracy here and it was just separatists thinking they were targeting an army Antonov with a minimal crew.

But I think it's much more likely there is no conspiracy here and it was just separatists thinking they were targeting an army Antonov with a minimal crew.

This seems like the smart bet now. A group of untrained partisans could have captured an AA rig and not known what they were doing.

Yes like they did a few days earlier against an Antonov transport:

14 July - Ukraine military plane shot down as fighting rages

A Ukrainian military transport aircraft has been shot down in the east, amid fighting with pro-Russian separatist rebels, Ukrainian officials say.

They say the An-26 plane was hit at an altitude of 6,500m (21,325ft).

The plane was targeted with "a more powerful missile" than a shoulder-carried missile, "probably fired" from Russia. The crew survived, reports say.

Footage of the burning transport (which news agencies have mistaken for the MH17 in a few cases)

CNN overdoing it with the font size just a bit

At least it wasn't in Comic Sans.

Not so fast...

http://theoatmeal.com. What's wrong with comic sans?

No room for anything else, sorry.

My grandma has no problem with it

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Footage of some random explosion from a distance, more specifically.

FTFY

Kinda impossible to say wether this is legit or not

Who shot this video? Why were they "ready" for the shot? They are aiming the camera right at the place the plane is going to impact.

To be fair, maybe they could see the plane falling from the sky and hurried and took out a phone.

Its already on the ground with the video starts. It's reasonable to believe they started their camera after they watched it fall from the sky.

Redditor sets a fire off in the distance and says it's the shot down airline. All for that False Flag karma.

Also, if this is actual crash footage, and it was shot down, wouldn't there be a smoke trail from the initial hit in the air?

That is what I thought, but apparently at 33k feet there isn't much oxygen to burn. So from what I have been told, the missile impacted and damaged the plane enough to take it down. The initial explosion was doused due to lack of oxygen.

I suppose the movies have trained us for a HUGE smoke trail.

I would like an /r/ELI5 to talk about this aspect of the crash. Where is the smoke trail from the impact video?

Ahh I see, thanks for the info.

But if it was burning as it fell at some point wouldn't it start to smoke if it was burning the entire time it fell into oxygen rich air? Just a thought.

Yes, there would be... where is it? If you look at how the Buk Missile system works you would see that there would be a definite smoke trail from the missile... This has false flag written all over it

Edit: Here is a video of the Russian-made Buk missile, as you can see it leaves a definite smoke trail...

You find any way you can to make something more malicious than it already is without even bothering to check your assumptions. That's not skepticism. That's blindness.

The 9M38 surface-to-air missile utilizes a two-mode solid fuel rocket engine with total burn time of about 15 seconds; the combustion chamber is reinforced by metal.

SAMs don't have a smoke trail after their burn. That launcher has a combat range of 29nmi.

"This has false flag written all over it" my ass.

Well, somebody apparently shot it down for whatever reasons. Probably the Russians, to secure eastern Ukraine and all their wonderful oil and natural gas infrastructure. They probably wanted it documented. So the cameraman is just part of the crew.

EDIT: Suck it. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/malaysia-airlines-mh17-shot-down-tragedy-deaths-buk-missile-launcher-video-putin-russia-ukraine-obama-brits-dead-9613730.html

Relevant: Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 crashed over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia ... Ukraine [eventually] admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces.

So the takeaway here is just that people fuck up sometimes?

No, no. Everything has to be intentional. The alternative is too horrifying to consider.

What, That blind greed, aggression, ineptitude, incompetence and bureaucracy are all this world is? That none of it really has any ties except the ones we make up (or can prove)?

sometimes ?! Personally I'm in favor of always applying the Hanlon's Razor

I almost always Apply to the SpaceTire Razor Rule, thats where I jump to conclusions based on my biased perspectives and I shut out all conflicting information.

Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

US shot down a Iran Air Flight and immediatly accepted cupability for shooting it down and paid the family 300k per wage earner on plane, 150k per non wage earner.

Yes and rewarded those responsible while refusing to apologise.

the point is, when people shoot down planes (like the US) they normally admit to it.

1812 was a very long time ago...

Edit: Accept my apologies, I made this comment before I went to sleep and now I feel absolutely stupid 😂

Not sure if serious but that is the flight number. Ukraine shot down the passenger jet on 4 October 2001. Wasn't so much fuss made about it 1) because it couldn't be blamed on Russia 2) social media wasn't around

Relevant: I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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It was shot down by Ukrainian forces. Some people will do anything to blame Russia.

I'm not blaming Russia, but just saying that if it has always been considered Russian by Russians then it is just a really bad excuse to consider it Ukrainian to try to blame Ukraine. I don't know all about that fact, but I'm just throwing it out there. The old news has nothing at all to do with this discussion though

Has anyone considered that someone has it out for Malaysia Airlines?

Who would go that far into take down an airline? Who has the kind of money because of a grudge?

There are much simpler and cheaper ways of taking down a company.

Just ask Le Chiffre

Or the Malaysian government that has been dragging its feet on the ttip or tpp.

Wouldn't that be something.

I know you're joking but with the mysterious cargo from the last plane and now this one I'm thinking something they're trying to secretly transport is so dangerous or important they rather blow it up that let it be transported or terrorist but the public can't handle a plane full of people bring shot down to save the targets. The people in the planes would be doomed anyway. Being the same airline could imply having people on the inside looking the other way on security checks and such.

Or Malaysian airlines is being used because they are so incompetent.

Looks like bad damn luck, since 70 aircraft traveled the same area within the 2 days before the shoot down. . .with flights right before (minutes) and after . . .

Some airlines did avoid the area. . .but it could of easily been a Russian flight (that would of been fitting) or a few others.

I know you're joking but with the mysterious cargo from the last plane and now this one I'm thinking something they're trying to secretly transport is so dangerous or important they rather blow it up that let it be transported or terrorist but the public can't handle a plane full of people bring shot down to save the targets. The people in the planes would be doomed anyway. Being the same airline could imply having people on the inside looking the other way on security checks and such.

Or that some of its flights are being used and/or diverted for unknown but clearly important reasons by "unknown" persons. And that other, equally unknown persons are trying to sabotage or seize control whatever shady thing Malaysia Airlines is a front for

Don't be ridiculous and ask relevant and objective questions! Deep in your heart you just know the Russians did this.

(sarcasm alert)

So, who benefits? Or was it just some retard operating an anti-aircraft missile launcher?

No one benefits, and yes it was probably a kid who barely passed 11th grade operating the missile launcher.

I mean, the launcher has to be operated by four people. The Russian BUK Missile Defense has four operators. But I mean, they're rebels, so… Not saying anything bad about rebels but don't think they would have the best Missile launcher operators.

the BUK is supposed to be hard/old school to use. . 6 months of training. The biggest thing is that its built/supposed to be used with a radar command. I.e someone tells them what to target, they target, and done

From what we are hearing this wasn't being done. The BUK was on its own, and on its own it can't tell commercial from military. . .hence the issue.

with that being said, they weren't smart. They assumed (most likely) that the flight overhead was military. So either they were badly informed or untrained. Seems that lessons 101 on this would of been some sort of work to check the path of commercial jet

Doesn't SIRI work in Ukraine?

I'd say they did a pretty good job of hitting their target, so they're not incompetent.

I doubt they decided to shoot down a passenger plane from their own initiative rather than getting direct orders from higher up (the rebel leaders, or even higher up, whoever is funding them).

Someone told them to do it, possibly to distract the world from Gaza, or for some other reason we could speculate about. Someone also must have instructed the pilot to fly through that area rather than taking the ordinary route for that flight over the sea. Considering how much crazy attention this story is getting in the media, I'm guessing this was set up from both sides for some sort of media distraction just as MH370 was.

Sucks that real people have to die for 2 weeks of media curiosity though.

I mean I hate(because it speaks loads on my country) to say it but the rebels aren't exactly the smartest people in the world. Sure it takes 4 people to operate....but that could also mean 4 people pressed a couple buttons

There are only two reasons that anyone would do this, first is stupidity, second is that they wanted to blame it on the other side to get international support.

So I'm guessing that who benefits will be whichever side can sway people's support to their side of the conflict.

The third is the Israelis wanted a distraction for their invasion of Gaza...

The fourth was it was an attempted assassination of Putin

The fourth was it was an attempted assassination of Putin

That may make sense considering someone else posted that they shared similar flight plans.

There is a possibility that whoever launched the missile could have been a little trigger-happy. I wouldn't say it would be super likely, but not impossible

A lot of the rebels aren't extremely educated and I wouldn't fully write it off. I think there's a high possibility.

Cui Bono? If this ends up tied to the Russian separatists then it's the Kiev govt as they will end up with much more support from the west. Doesn't mean they did it, just answering the question..

If the USA propaganda machine succeeds in convincing people that Russia is behind it, the USA's hand at isolating Russia is strengthened. That's what it is all about.

Separatists were wining war, they encircled large group of pro-Kiev forces, about 1/4 - 1/3 of their total army. This would be devastating failure for Kiev, would completely undermine the morale of the troops and popular support for the war. The NATO intervention is only one thing left to save them. Now it is not needed as plane fell almost right making some territory around here a non-combat area and allowing pro-Kiev troops to escape thus preventing defeat.

I don't think the Ukrainians would risk losing all support from NATO/EU by deliberately shooting down a civilian airplane. If the world found out, there would no longer be anyone opposing Russia's offensive.

1) Investigation takes very long and before it will be done there will be a different government in Kiev, the event itself will loose the heat. EU/US will point out to Russia as long as it humanly possible and they are not interesting in truth. Also it is worth noticing, that Ukrainians accidentally downed the airplane before and got away with it just fine.

2) Pro-Kiev forces are already killing civilians as many as died in this Boeing on daily basis and didn't loose any support whatsoever. The EU/US turns a blind eye to those crimes against humanity as it ignores the fact that neo-Nazies was the force behind revolution and still dictates most parts of Kiev agenda.

1) makes sense.

2) what is your source on neo-nazis being behind the revolution and/or dictating anything in their current government?

2) Even wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector is saying somthing about it. But those organizations are just the tip of the iceberg. You cannot have so many right wing or openly neo-nazi organizations without social institutions being (education, culture, etc) subverted to produce people inclined to join such organizations or at least follow their line of thought. But who made those changes to those social institutions?

Here we are coming to the core of Ukrainian civil war (we shall not deny this 'conflict' its proper name). There is one ethnicity, but there are two cultural identities, 'Russian' and 'Galician', the first not needing much introduction and the latter stemming from that is now western-Ukraine and that previously was part of Austrian empire. After fall of soviet union 'Galicians' extremists with some help from West gained power and started to subvert above mentioned social institutions with the goal of cultural assimilation of 'Russians'. While this process was relatively slow it was more or less painless, and people didn't mind it, but the later process stopped at 50%/50% ratio. Deadlocks started to happen. The first deadlock was solved with 'forced recalculation of votes' by 'Galicians' in 2008. The second deadlock of 2013-2014 was resolved with much more violence, not only in Kiev, but in other places as well. This violence went unnoticed by majority of Ukrainian officials because at this point most of officials already were sharing view of 'Russians' being sub-humans. Later their actions in regard to language laws and their actions in eastern territory dispersed even latest bit of doubt. (For example people who burned alive 'Russians' in Odessa got away with it). Almost forgot good old prohibition of communistic party with killing of some prominent figures from it.

To summarize: many of the things happening in Ukraine now could only happen if and only if majority of officials and politicians were supporting neo-nazies in one way or another sharing their outlook.

Sorry for long and somehow chaotic rant, I would gladly answer any questions here.

because at this point most of officials already were sharing view of 'Russians' being sub-humans.

I'm not saying I agree with anyone thinking that, but come on. Soviet occupation starving millions of people (and for what a noble cause!) Deportations in the tens of thousands. 70 years of occupation, during which Ukrainians were considered and treated as sub-humans. Yeah, you gotta be a Nazi, if you have some mixed feelings about Russians.

70 years of occupation, during which Ukrainians were considered and treated as sub-humans.

This contradicts even wikipedia version of history. Please, could you educate yourself first, even a little bit? This is not even biased view, it is some grotesque version of propaganda.

Considering famine episode in worth noticing the leader back then was Georgian and most of mid-level functionaries were Jews. Russians and other ethnicities suffered as much as other back then. There numerous issues with this "Holodomor" thing, but nowadays anything anti-Russian will do. One don't need to check the fact or now a thing. If something bad happened it was either terrorists or Russians.

Third, has you read bout difference being cultural one? The communists were as much different as those two archetypes I've described. Many Russian people were against communism and fought in civil war against it. Yet you are equating Russians with Communists.

Also, look at this episode with plane. Governments has all kinds of satellite info, yet for some reason withholding it, while press is raging "Russians did it". The whole situation could be made clear quickly, yet it isn't and Russians blamed for it. The same with history, but with even less factual information and more propaganda. Keep it in mind.

... riiight.

According to /pol/ RT is reporting that Putin's plane flew that exact route 30 minutes before the plane got shot down, and the two are very similar in appearance.

It's RT via 4chan, though, keep that in mind.

Eh - even RT via RT is not that great.

Israel benefits. This is a great media distraction to keep people from talking about the troops they moved into Gaza the same afternoon.

Less focus on Israel maby? Just a thought

It's going to become the focal point on the news for the next week and we will stop talking about Gaza, that should be fairly apparent to everyone by now.

I'm really worried about global stability. I'm not extremely informed on everything going on in the Middle East. But combined with this the shit is going to hit the fan sooner than later. A global war is coming and it might not be nation vs nation. It could be neighbor vs neighbor.

I agree with you that some sort of global conflict is on it's way, but what do you mean by neighbor vs neighbor? Specifically in the US. I feel like the country will have martial law if a global conflict breaks out.

get ready.

What kind of asshats down vote you for simply saying "be prepared."

Oh right.. the "it couldn't happen here" crowd.

i believe it will happen and very soon.

So am I

Check out Asia, Africa, and South America too!

I'm on mobile so I can't post links until I get home, but the guy that posted the FB status to the effect of if my flight disorders this is what it looks like? The aircraft pictured is not the one that was registered for this flight. The aircraft in the picture is very clearly 9M-MRC. The aircraft that was shot down was supposedly 9M-MRD. For reference MH370 was 9M-MRO.

According to flight aware 9M-MRC was nowhere near Amsterdam or Ukraine at the time.

Edit: http://www.reddit.com/r/creepy/comments/2az112/a_passenger_posted_this_on_facebook_right_before/cj082ce

I can't be the only one who thinks it is EXTREMELY fishy that supposed radio contact between rebels and Russia talking about how they shot down the wrong plane was available withing hours of this tragedy, thanks to the Ukrainian government?

How very convenient that they could release that nearly instantaneously.

All the info pointing to the rebels was released within hours.... The Ukrainians sure are efficient.

It was posted before the crash even happend. Ukrainian rebels tried to blame russia. But they failed, because of the fact that they posted the radio contact too early...

What do you all make of this? http://www.charter.net/news/read/article/the_associated_press-rebel_suggests_malaysia_plane_victims_long_dead-ap

I know this is /r/conspiracy but that's nonsense, a friend of mine lost 2 coworkers, who wore traveling with their families. Also are they expecting dead people to bleed out?

Its funny..not sure what his angle is?

Please elaborate more, English is not my native language, and I really do lack some idiomatic expressions.

I'm sorry for your loss, this is horrific.

I'm not the poster, but I'll explain the language.

"Its funny" means "it's strange/weird" "not sure what his angle is?" means "I'm not sure what his motive/purpose for saying this is"

I think it's clear what the purpose is... they don't want to accept responsibility for murdering nearly 300 civilians.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss.

yes, i trust your word, random guy on the internet

I think a top comment on another reddit post makes a great comeback to this argument.

Explain where the 150 Dutch that boarded a plane yesterday went and we will consider this theory.

it's what I thought the first time I saw pics of the crash scene.

This needs to be much higher up

Video from the site (possibly NSFW/NSFL) some images of human remains

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c3_1405624764

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The wings are not particularly strong, they just have less momentum compared to the body of the aircraft. Additionally, in many crashes the fuselage absorbs some impact energy before the wings impact. This is also why the tail frequently survives almost totally intact, even in devastating crashes.

This is r/conspiracy, not r/witchcraft. Occam's razor applies. The simplest solution is that it was shot down. Any conspirators don't give a shit about human life.

you miss the point of questioning severely if you believe that.

What the hell is severely questioning? And I don't see how it pertains to a plane that obviously existed. Why would anyone go to the trouble of creating a fake crash when they could trivially cause a real one. If you are going to propose the absurd, you better have something to back it up

No one said anything like that.

I did.

Malaysia certainly is having bad luck with their airplanes with this coming almost on the heels of the MH370 disappearance. Not to start anything, but Malaysia was the country that convicted Bush II and company of war crimes and crimes against humanity in 2012, making it impossible for them to travel abroad without risking arrest on those charges. I don't suppose the one thing could have anything to do with the other... Could it?

Well i've heard enough, to guess this outcome

1 - Russian SAM on the gruond 2 - crew was either Russian or Russian trained 3 - SAM crew was not working with central/control radar (did not have ability to distinguish commercial from military) 4- crew assumed that sense it was "war" there would be no fly overs of commercial aircraft. 5- missile exploded as expected. . .killing everyone before they ht the ground (within 30 seconds)

. . .stupidity, assumptions, and half measures mostly from the soldiers firing at unidentified targets using no information. God even Siri will tell you whats overhead.

Thats the real kicker here. The U.S.S.R. and the U.S. have both done accidental shoot downs before. And they weren't even combatants in a war at the time. From a PR perspective, the best thing to do would be to get out in front of this thing. Admit you made a mistake, but explain the circumstances. Its war, and these things happen.

Of course, to do that, the rebels would have to admit they got a BuK SA-11, amongst other equipment, from Russia. While everyone "knows" that, Russia doesn't want anyone to be able to "prove" it.

So instead, we get lies, accusations, and a bunch of innocent people rotting in a field. Very sad.

You don't just train some people in a few weeks how to operate such a machine. Iv heard many things, some ppl say the separatists took the vehicle's from Ukrainian bases. If that's the case then Putin had nothing to do with it.

Other's say they were Russians, if that is the case then this could not have been an accident, but there is no reason why Putin would should it down. The military are not a bunch of amateurs, the target must be confirmed through various means and the command to fire is given from high up.

I would like to know how many other aircraft before the Malaysian one passed over the region.

1 - posted above, and elsewhere. . US satellite captured both the BUK launching and the BUK moving back to Russia with one less missile. This leads me to believe and understand why Russia is covering up, hiding, etc. They want to "pretend" that they are not in Ukraine.

2- No evidence that a commercial airliner was targeted. Intercepted communications (by Ukraine) fits with what it looks like. BUK was firing missiles without primary radar. The Buk can't tell the difference between commercial and war planes. Chances are the people made a assumption that if its in the air, it must be war. . .even though 70 planes flew over the same area within the last 2 days before this. . with other planes going minutes before and after . . .

bottom line, it was a mistake of war. The coverup is Russia and NOT because they shot down a commercial plane (thats no big deal, US has done it before and admitted). . .the big deal is that - i'm guessing - Russians pulled the trigger and not Ukraine separatists. ..

Russia comes out openly

All those pictures are total bs

Zerohedge article on it

I just find the desperation for anti-US conspiracy very interesting. So you want to believe state OWNED (not biased) media?

Lets see what the black boxes say. . .my guess is, no Fighter Jet escort. No talk about it. Just flying on a approved corridor and then darkness. . .

the black box will only show that the MH17 isn't escorted. . is my guess. But a missile strike would just show the route, normal conservation, and then - total failure -

i've not see the american pictures, do you have a link?

US satellite reports are being widely reported in various media (except RT) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/dangerous-skies-over-ukraine-flight-mh17-likely-shot-down-by-surface-to-air-missile/article19669682/

Now if your asking for the actual "images" well no one here is an expert on such images, either Russian images of the "jet fighter" or US images of what they saw. . .so not sure why you need to see images other than to make ridiculous conclusions from a uninformed observer "look, that shirt. . .that says FBI. . and its upsidedown"

so you're saying we should believe whatever the american government say simply because no one outside the american government can spot a gert missile tank in a picture?

sorry that doesn't wash, would you believe me if i said i have pictures of Elvis talking to Jesus in my pool but because you're not in my special photo-looking club and wouldn't possibly be able to recognise objects in a photograph you can't see them? no of course not.

"believe" is a word with lots of lines on it. I am not implying we always believe everything everyone says in a position of authority.

Yet if a politician (like Kerry) gets out there and says we have confirmed X, Y, and Z .. .I'm betting they are 90% sure of what they are saying.

You are not John Kerry, nor are you the US Government or any other credible source. So therefore you can't really compare your Elvis pictures with a authority like the US and its track record.

The idea that the US Govt can fabricate evidence like this, put Politicians in a "uninformed" position with possible blow back. . .is pretty out there. tin foil time.

so you're basically saying american politicians wouldn't lie but Russian politicians would lie?

what do you think of Russian people that say Russian politicians wouldn't lie but american politicians would?

nope never said that.

I said that a Politician wouldn't say something like this without evidence to back it up in the US. Russian's don't have to worry about a free-press (they own the media) US pOliticans aren't so lucky

everyone lies -

but not to the crackpot level your noting that would require media, military, and administration collusion over a aircraft going down over Russian/Separatists cold territory.

if Russia says there was a fighter, and no one backs it up, i'm going to go with them being full of #@@

I have far more trust in our military/administration than Russia

haha yeah american press is totally free and never biased, they wouldn't just get automatic support for statements like that simply because they're the establishment and the establishment doesn't lie...

you're assuming they wouldn't make this up, bob that works at cnn is assuming they wouldn't make this up, mary at fox couldn't care less as long as it fits the agenda, timmy at NPR is assuming they wouldn't make this up....

apparently no one has actually said 'hey, show us the pictures then if it's such a clear cut case!' they've simply gone 'oh yeah, mr pentagon said it was the ruskies then it was the ruskies, right you are sir!'

The fact is russia have posted their satellite images showing suspicious movements of Ukrainian BUKs in that area - why is it so hard for america to show conclusively the russia buks they say they have pictures of?

1) Freedom of Press is built into our constitution, and as such I would say American Press is a lot more free than any press on the planet. . .

2)establishment "the man?" is a general term. An accusation without focus. What is an establishment? how could it lie. . .its unfocused accusation that can't really be responded too

3)I'm not assuming anything about making things up. News Media are paid to get ratings. that is the only thing you need to focus on in game theory. there is no "agenda" in game theory, except self interest. CNN will nail a f'n screw in Obama's ass if it got them 10pts in the ratings race. Nothing would make FOX happier is if a US Jet shot down MH17.

4) People in conspiracy theories aren't swayed by facts. You get pictures, they don't prove anything. You say stupid #@! like "hey thats a clean passport" and other insane and idiotic observations. I havent' gone looking for the video/pictures but the US govt has said its there, they say they have seen the BUK moving back to russia. . .no real reason or evidence they are lying

5) Russia "says" what? TR is saying it was another jet fighter (already partially disproven due to the fragment pattern on the jet). . and the area was under (widespread knowledge) separatists control. . .so why would the Ukraine . . HOW would the Ukraine be moving BUKS in a russian/russian controled area? wow . .

i don't want evidence they're lying -- i just want them to release they evidence they say they have, why is that so hard?

and point five is answered pretty well by the satellite images russia released :p

depending on the resolution, and what the picture shows, i'm not sure if/the purpose of showing the imagery.

seriously - the imagery itself is for analysts, I only care for the interpretation by these analysts. Why do you want the imagery? As if you dont believe what the US govt is saying?

why should i believe what one government is saying when it contradicts what another government is saying? both should put their cards on the table and show their proof.

basically what you're saying is the evidence might be of such a low quality they don't actually have any way of demonstrating it's veracity, one black pixel they've decided is a BUK for no real reason than it'd really help their case if it was one?

I could recognise a missile tank on google earth and the russian satellite images clearly show enough features to recognise a BUK - why do you think the american satalite images are going to be so hard to recognise?

i mean you know that a BUK is larger than a car right? and has big missiles strapped to the top of it? it's pretty easy to spot one in an image, i guess they could point to it with an little read arrow to help the partially sited...

If you think, based on previous experience, what the government is, what it does. . .that both US and Russia's record of credibility are the same that is your right.

Russia. . .has proven itself to be pretty shady, and as close to a dictatorship as possible. Russia controls its media. It puts people in jail (or kills them) for disagreeing with the Putin administration.

Based on that, I will accept US Govt analysis of an event versus Russia. especially since the US dog isn't in the hunt exactly. . .

if you don't think that america has a dog in this race then you're not paying attention.

I know it's hard for you to imagine this but there are people in russia, china, heck even north korea who believe America is basically just a phony democracy where deluded and brainwashed people idly vote for politician A or politician B despite the fact no matter who they vote for the same things happens - change you can believe in? change to what? a new front in the eternal war?! people from the rest of the world have media which doesn't sensor things like the war in iraq, when you see embedded journalists talking to shills and crowds cheering as the american flag is draped over saddams face and the statue pulled down everyone else is hearing the vile american invaders staged a PR stunt for the cameras while all across iraq mass anti-american protests raged. They're also seeing blown up homes, pictures of bloody bodies, crying children and all sorts of things that american tv simple does not show.

The world perception of america is as a vile warmonger, i mean you think what Israel is doing to Palestine is wrong? America literally carpet bombed north vietnam with chemical weapons and fire! they use white phosphorous in iraq and set up zones where they kill everyone inside no matter who they are - this is the sort of thing the rest of the world hears about america.

and when america says 'hey putin probably was behind that false flag terrror attack on that school' everyone in the rest of the world says 'yeah exactly as likely as bush is to have been behind the twin towers lol.' -are they both nonsense? both true? it's impossible to know, simply saying 'i'm american and i don't believe america would do such things but the russians would' is not a valid argument, it's mindless jingoism -exactly the thing you're laughing at other nations for!

how many times have you seen CNN spend a week obsessing over schools being bombed by american forces? exactly never. how many times have they obsessed over an airliner crash? every time it happens, well unless it's iranian and america did it....

The world has a different perspective on america and the actions of america nationally - likewise people inside russia often have a very biased view of russia, russian patriots and conformists would say 'of course russia wouldn't do such things, russia is protecting itself from nato - russia is not invading countries around the world and imposing it's will with an iron fist, it is hard working mother country producing oil in the cold and trying to survive against american attacks like aways...'

american media is HUGELY controlled, this is very obvious when you actually look for it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh0fjdU3Jp8 is a great documentary made by a war correspondent [started in vietnam] about how biased the media can be in it's coverage, especially with embedded reporters and the like.

imagine if you will a russian chap call igor polvinski, igor wants to learn about america so he goes to school and asks what america is like 'it's a terrible place where the media is biased and the politicians are evil' and then he turns on the television and the film is about corruption in american politics or about how crazy nutters in america might destroy russia simply because they're bonkers and powermad -fiilms like Dr Strangelove for example or Spies Like Us..

This person then starts to develop an image of america so they look at american media where there are two choices presented to them translated FOX news and RT translating interviews with Alex Jones and others of the same type - obviously fox makes him think 'wow these fucking nutters are fucking nutters, they're barely human they're so blood thirsty and ravenous!' then Alex Jones says 'omg fema camps, poison the water supply, they want to take over the world, iraq was an illigal war!' and they're like, wow yeah the sane people in america have it really hard, poor alex living in such a mad world...

then someone says 'no you've got it all wrong, they're not like that,,,; and the person says 'no fuck you american sympathiser you're wrong because look at this report from china about american human rights! look at this essay by chompsky on how the press in america is totally owned by a small cartel of economic elite that tied directly to the military industrial complex, look at this report endorsed by everywhere not complicit that says iraq was without a doubt a war of aggression and bush and blare should be tried in the hague for war crimes....

i mean that's where it's at - blare and bush literally did the same crime the nazi's swung for, starting a war of aggression - there was no link between the towers being bombed and Iraq, it was an oil grab. when people in russia, china and anywhere outside the very narrow western mindset see's that they consider america to be just as dodgey as russia.

so no, america does not get a magic pass where we accept whatever it says just because it says it - it either proves it or it shuts the fuck up.

1)" russia, china, heck even north korea who believe America is basically just a phony democracy where deluded and brainwashed people idly vote for politician A"

The opinions of persons within states that excessive full control over their media isn't a reliable source. in fact. Plus i'm in marketing, perceptions are not reality - 1st truth. Just because people believe something doesn't make it true.

2) i'm not aware of Putin false flag attacks nor any source information on it. So I can't comment. 9/11 was solved quickly (Saudi terrorists/Osama) and Russia isn't involved

3) Media isn't "controlled". You have to do more than show some video. . .control equals some evidence of a connection and stories being manipulated. Your nativity on the media process not withstanding the only control is WHAT MAKES MONEY. We have a #@! media sure. . .but its not one of control. People don't want to watch certain crap - and so the media doesn't always show it.

You can't make some crazy accusation that goes against the very constitution (Freedom of press) without evidence. Cherry picking news stories you think they should covered is meaningless. If media is controlled WHY DO WE ALLOW YOUTUBE? come on. On one hand you tell me about control, the second you show me a VIDEO from the f'n website within the US that is how most people consumer their MEDIA. Now that is IRONIC

4)Alex Jones - if you put him in an argument, that guy discredits you. he is like a rotten apple. Such a media hungry/money hungry idiot that he will say any conspiracy to get more ratings. Just as CNN caters to mom and dads. . .alex jones caters to crazies. And get this - HE IS ALLOWED TO EXIST. So is he part of the big plot? if media is controlled why IS HE HERE

5) Your lack of knowledge on WWII is something. Nazi's went to death for 6 million jews, slave labor, and yes - a aggressive war. Maybe you could accuse blair/bush on aggressive war. . but if you win the war, you don't get punished for that.

America doesn't get a "magic pass" - but it is a credible source of information and unless you have a source/statement from the state department that is proven to be a lie (and not early/misinformed) . . .not sure how you can sit there and type/argue different.

No magic pass needed, if you got a pretty damn good track record.

If media is controlled WHY DO WE ALLOW YOUTUBE? come on.

they have youtube in russia yet you said the russian press is controlled?

and as for mentioning alex jones did you even understand what i was saying? that's what russian people are seeing of america i'm using it to demonstate what you're seeing of russia, you see the russian equivilents of alex jones trotted out to say putin eats babies or putin does false flag terror attacks but they don't tell you the way the sensible russian press are telling it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_YouTube

Russia does censor youtube, United States does not

though I would agree, United States or Russia would find it worthless to censor people like Alex Jones. Only the truth gets censored.

Your lack of knowledge on WWII is something. Nazi's went to death for 6 million jews

actually they were tried for starting a war of aggression, maybe before shouting about not knowing history you should actually check your facts?

unless you have a source/statement from the state department that is proven to be a lie

there are hundreds of them, iraq having weapons of mass destruction for example

" Specific charges included the murder of over 6 million Jews, pursuing an aggressive war, the brutality of the concentration camps and the use of slave labor. " - look up WW2 Sentencing . .aggressive war was only one item. . .

"there are hundreds of them, iraq having weapons of mass destruction for example" - never blame on malice, what is better explained on incompetence. A lie would require the administration to KNOW there was not a weapon of mass destruction, and next told us different. Bush administration didn't lie. . .but they were wrong. they were stupid. They ignored evidence they shouldn't have and cherry picked evidence they should of

but that is being an idiotic, being incompetent, not malice.

haha seriously, you think the government accidentally presented an entirely false case to persuade the nation to go to war? have you not paid any attention to recent events? they lied and they knew they were lying.

• sure, i'm open to the source. . . .just show some evidence they lied and not incompetent. I remain all ears. Skeptic but an open mind.

i already have, watch the documentary i posted it has reporters and government officials explaining how the lie was passed off.

or here's one of the people responsible for inventing the lie;

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/man-whose-wmd-lies-led-to-100000-deaths-confesses-all-7606236.html

here's someone writing about some more lies;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/colin-powell-wmd-iraq-war_b_2624620.html

such classic deceptions as 'Powell played an intercept of a conversation between Iraqi army officers about the UN inspections. However, when he translated what they were saying, he knowingly embellished it, turning it from evidence Iraq was complying with U.N. resolutions to evidence Iraq was violating them.'

here's another talking about how the security services were totally aware this is a lie...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims

there are hundreds of similar stories for reputable sources, it's quite clear the US and British governments knew they wanted to go into Iraq so they could gain gain control of the oil reserves and pipelines - this led to them cooking up absurd stories and fake intelligence so they could lie to the people and convince them to accept the mass murder of millions in their name. it's all absolutely vile.

The analyst/defector lied - that is admitted it seems. . .but

I no doubt understand and believe that the administration wanted to believe in IRAQ WMD and the reason to go to war. As an administration they listened to people who lied to them (such as your 1st point). I'm sure that people who had concerns were afraid to voice them. . .because the administration KNEW there weapons of mass destruction. . .they KNEW it, don't you dare challenge the president on this.

they ignored evidence (no doubt in my mind) that conflicted with their view. They were stupid, and incompetent. .that is no doubt. They exaggerated evidence that they did have. ..

I think this silo vision and ignoring of the evidence that conflicted with their world view DID allow 9/11 to happen (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0)

but its not proof of a lie. . .its proof of what happens in an organisation when boss wants to go with plan A and all the people working for him are pussies. I've seen it at my work too. . .it happens.

its not lying

its being stupid

heh you can excuse anything using that kind of argument, we might as well let all criminals out of jail because they probably just accidentally brought cocaine instead of sugar and that gun? they probably got told it was a horse and didn't want to upset anyone by disagreeing...

it get's to the point where either they were guilty of purposefully doing these things or extreme guilty of criminal negligence.

if it's possible they can be so criminally negligent once it takes us to exactly the same point as before, anyone that can fuck up enough to kill millions of innocent people in a war which turns out to be illegitimate has forfeited and right to be trusted at any point in the foreseeable future - therefore to go back to our original point, there is absolutely no reason to trust their word on what intelligence they have, maybe the subordinates are again too scared to contradict the president? if that's how they got into iraq then it might be how they fuck up the situation in the Crimea too...

There was significant evidence that the case for WMD was bad. A lot of counter evidence. . .from the CIA agent on the ground (who the bush administration went after) to the varacity of the turn cloak.

MH17 is a separate event and the evidence and supporting intel aligns. You sound like Bachman saying how we disproved one theory so all science is crap.

MH17 evidence is only growing, and the direction is pretty conclusive.

i'm not saying that this is certainly bad intel they have, i'm simply saying if they want anyone to believe it they have to demonstrate the information they have and allow others to scrutinise it.

no one is going to trust america if they simply say 'yah, we know our long time enemies did it so like, that's that, m'kay?'

how is that hard to understand?

The track record of conspiracy theorists with intel is ridiculous. Even when they get all they ask. . .they will invent something else.

regardless - if it can be released it will be. Yet at this time there is no reason/evidence to doubt the conclusion.

there's also no reason to believe it...

so given there's nothing going for it either way we're best just ignoring it until they offer something to back it up.

as for blaming the existence of conspiracy theorists that's a weird argument, who cares what those people say if they're always going to say negative things? release the evidence so people like me who can be swayed by evidence can look at it and say 'oh yes, that is the evidence which proves this who debacle once and for all...'

If someone is convinced that MSM and a global conspiracy to make russia look bad is afoot. . .than Evidence will not impact things.

I mean we have debris, pictures, and pieces of jets at all 9/11 crash sites and eye witness to planes hitting the pentagon but that mountain of evidence is ignored. I'm just being realistic. I'm satisfied with what i've heard. . and you will TWIST/ignore/argue with whatever is given to fit your belief.

so if you're just going to mindlessly believe everything the us government tell you without even desiring evidence then why are you in this sub?

only a conspiracy theorist would say that being a skeptic, and asking for evidence of lying/deceit/etc means mindlessly believing everything.

I'm here to point out who is beveling mindlessly and who is being a skeptic

i'm not the one who starts with belief

no you're not being a sceptic you're being a believer, it's pretty simply burden of proof;

claim made - america has pictures which prove Russia's guilt.

evidence required - the pictures.

asking for evidence of claims and not believing statements until they're proven is scepticism, i'm being sceptical of americas claim to posses pictures which implicate russia.

you're disregarding the need for proof and in fact arguing that they shouldn't provide proof because according to you whatever they release won't be good enough, which of course is another assumption based on nothing but your personal emotions and faulty reasoning.

What should happen is if America believe they have evidence which implicates russia in the form of areal photography they release an annotated version of it expounding their case to the international community and global population - this then put's you in a position where you can say 'yes, here is the evidence' and if i say 'ahh but maybe it's drawn by disney...' you can say 'oh you people will say anything!' but i probably wouldn't say that unless it was very poor lineart...

you're not a sceptic against conspiracy theories you're a believer in whatever you think your team is supposed to believe.

what evidence is there that Ukraine military or USA was responsible for this attack?

1) separatist territory 2) separatist shot down jets before and after MH17 (do you disagree that the separatist were targeting and shooting down jets, including 2 fighters AFTER mh17) 3) pictures from crash show clear damage from a externally detonated missile 4) US analysts confirm evidence of a missile launch/BUK system ( THOUGH US HAS SAID THAT THEY CAN'T SAY FOR SURE 100% who fired the missile).

skeptic says - okay all evidence points toward Russian separatist. . so where is evidence to the contrary?

If US says. . we think Aliens did it. . I would be like, hmm . . .but if they say the sky is blue. . i'm not going to bother wondering about pictures.

no you're muddying the water now, most of that is nothing to do with what we're talking about and they have no place is this discussion.

We are talking about the photos america claims to have which prove the BUK systems were in place at the time, this is a fairly simply thing - there is exactly one important thing, do the photos exist? and exactly one way of answering that - yes, here are the photos.

any other answer of 'yes they exist but i forgot them, the dog ate them, i was in Chicago at the time...' just won't wash, it equates to no.

no one is asking them to prove things they haven't asserted, if they say they have a picture showing there was a russian BUK in the region that is all they need to do, show the picture and we have a solid point to work from - we know both parties definitely had BUKs in the area.

as it stands we have Russian images clearly demonstrating Ukrainian BUK movements in the close vicinity, no images clearly demonstrating rebel or Russian BUKs.

it's not a case of 'is the sky blue' because we all look at the sky every day. you don't look at BUK movements everyday. It's like living in a cave and someone coming down and saying 'comrade the sky is red like mother russia' but then someone else comes down and says 'i have seen the sky and it is blue like the tears of our enemies!' then they argue and the american says he has a picture of the blue sky so the yank says 'comrades i also have a picture of the sky and it is a red sky' and he pulls out the picture and waves it around for everyone to see, it's an artistic image with shepherds delighting in the foreground. So everyone in the room is like 'well, where is this picture 'merica?!' and america is like 'uh.... annalists have it, national security, TOP SECRET.' and everyone else is like, 'pffffft whatever' and side with russia and glorious communist revolution happens...

alot of blah blah blah. It was either 1) Ukraine firing a BUK in Russia controlled Ukraine or 2) Separatist. Doesn't take a lot of math to figure this one out dude.

we're not talking about that, we're talking about the images america claims to have but for absolutely no reason isn't showing anyone.

presenting a nonsense view of events and hoping i'll get distracted is silly, let's cover the actual issue.

America should just show the fucking photos and the only reason they wouldn't is because they don't have them.

the discussion is about MH17

the only reason the images are of any relevance is to solidify the current expectation/verify who shot it down

you don't know what your talking about do you?

you're getting carried away, we can't talk about everything at once.

right now we're talking about the pictures, there is no reason for america not to release them so we can only assume they don't exist.

okay, I don't buy that they would just make something up. .that makes even less sense.

maybe the pictures are 1) aren't very conclusive 2)show capabilities that US doesn't want to share ..

get off the jump to conclusions map boyo

so you're choosing to believe them based on nothing but emotional attachment to the system you're a part of? what would you say to a russian who says 'but Russia would not lie..'?

1) you're saying maybe the pictures they have don't actually prove what they suggest and were they to show people they'd say 'don't be fucking ridiculous, this is even worse intel then the fucking WMD bullshit you pulled last time!'

having rubbish evidence is not the same as having conclusive evidence.

The Russian satellite images show something that is either a BUK or a replica BUK and there's no doubting that, they also match the topography and other images of the area they claim to be very clearly. Why Ukraine could theoreticallybe moving around replica BUKs is a question not even a question worth asking, it looks like a BUK it is a BUK;

If america can produce pictures which look like reasonably a BUK then i will likewise assume that it's an actual BUK...

2) if their images are too high res then lower the res to just above google quality, so what?

if they don't have images but used some other technology then the answer is still 'no they do not have an image, yes they lied.'

if they had sophisticated technology recording it then they should say 'we had sophisticated technology detect it, we can't tell you about it sorry...' that's a different thing entirely, what they said is they have a picture that clearly shows BUK movements, either they do or they don't.

you can't cherry pick a piece of evidence (i..e the unreleased photos) and then ignore all the other evidence. We got Soviet separatists shooting down jets left and right, taking credit for shootdown, creash happened in separatist controlled area. I love it that you focus on one thing and dismiss everything else. Its not a case of a single photo. Its a case of multiple pieces of evidence.

but i'm not saying this is the only thing we need to worry about if we want to decide who shot down the jet, i am making no judgement on that in this conversation - i am simply saying that if america has pictures then it should release if it expects anyone to belive them, the same thing that intelligence annalist said in that link i sent

so if it doesn't matter - because we have evidence without the photos - what does it matter if we have the photos or not.

Its like saying you must have a photo that the sky is blue?!

haha we already did the blue sky one, remember?

if it doesn't matter than america should not have mentioned it, the thing is they did mention it and it's pretty much the only thing they have mentioned beside gut feeling.

do you now agree that when judging the evidence we should ignore the statements from america claiming to possess a photo as of no relevance?

hey i saw this and thought of you

http://democracyandclasstruggle.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-mh17-crash-us-veteran-intelligence.html

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if that plane was on course? Was it intended to fly through that area?

Gif of Route from Today and Yesterday

EDIT:FIXED link

unavailable.

Fixed

From what I have read, it was on course and not anywhere near any exclusion/war zones. The route it was on was actually an approved route by the UN.

The flight course was standard, no deviations as far as i'm aware.

[deleted]

That's a little unsettling.

Deviated over Poland. Wonder if there's a US base near by the initial deviation?

[deleted]

I find that hard to believe. He would be headed to Moscow, not Crimea.

Fair enough. I never said Putin was going to Ukraine or Crimea. Out of interest how do you know where the plane was when it was struck?

The path from Warsaw to Moscow is too different than Warsaw to Ukraine. Don't fall for the blatant propaganda - look at a map.

No reports talk about the plane being struck anywhere than above Eastern Ukraine.

Not falling for anything. The that fact that the Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing 'intersected at the same point and the same echelon' is interesting information.

same echelon? wtf does that mean? Vector? One took off from Warsaw and was headed north east, the other south east from Amsterdam - the closest it got was 20 miles from warsaw and it never landed.

Does anyone know why it was last tracked so far from where it ended up? I thought they tracked planes constantly.

Did you miss how MH370 vanished?

Over the Sea! This is over the most controlled airspace in the entire world.

Most controlled airspace in the entire world? Bit of an exaggeration.

I was being sarcastic in my previous post.. Of course they track airplanes. Even MH370. It would be naive to think a commercial airliner can just disappear without anyone knowing it's whereabouts.

Well it used to be...

Likely the same plane.

This is VERY important right here:

This is not the United States. In the US, going missing is nearly impossible (I say nearly, because mountainous areas can lead to blind spots at certain altitudes for radar.) If other stuff is working, missing isn't really gonna happen with the radar coverage.

Now, in other countries? VERY different. I don't know what their radar setups are like, but I do know there are ENORMOUS gaps in quite a few areas. A la MH370 and the Air France flight from a few years ago.

How far is that? Could that not be attributed to air traffic?

I don't know why you were downvoted, this seems like a perfectly reasonable cause for this deviation, and both sides of the argument need to be looked at to reach a sane conclusion.

To counter, one would say that air traffic couldn't be an explanation because airliners have been avoiding the airspace, but to counter that, there's proof that the airspace wasn't actually absolutely avoided, and a fair bit of civilian flight has actually taken place in those areas.

That "Last tracked location" leaves plenty of room to substitute in MA370 and divert MA17...

there is a no fly zone over the area with trouble, up to 31k feet. The flight was at 32k feet.

I love flying over war torn countries!

The scenery this time of year is wonderful.

I find it interesting that earlier today tougher sanctions were implemented on Russia's involvement in the Ukraine causing their stock market to drop almost 4%.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jul/17/russian-stock-market-hit-by-new-ukraine-sanctions-business-live

If mainstream media suggests that Russia is to blame for MH17 being shot down I fear this "Red Scare" will escalate into something much bigger in the coming weeks.

It is just as possible that either side did it.

Another video angle with debris falling from the sky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPu1dhje3Po

I don't mean to be funny when I say that debris literally looks like the lavatory toilet paper falling.

It isn't smoke. It is long streams of paper like material.

Hard to see at what distance this was shot. Seems too big to be toilet paper.

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/June/1/Technique-Mischief-with-a-purpose.aspx

yes. It's toilet paper by comparision with this flight school toilet paper drop.

good catch!

I dont know what a typical length of toilet paper roll is on an airliner ( I imagine it is a standard supplier at Schipold in AMseterdam so should be easy to find out.)

I think this literally gives us a ruler in the sky to judge size and distance.

Could be insulation

It appears to be white phosphorus. I heard a news reporter say something similar this morning and it got me hunting for answers. Google images is very telling. Here is another relevant link.

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/08/white_phosphorous_the_new_napalm/

Oddly enough while watching footage this morning on ABC news a commentator said is was phosphorus dropping from the plane. I found this with is an interesting link on the US use of white phosphorous.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4441902.stm

It's clearly not phosphorous.

He's right.

Was MH370 just found?

Downvoted in less than a minute. Seriously, though... How can you NOT ask that question? Malaysia Airlines, AGAIN?

A Malay 777 at that. Coincidences can happen. They happen all the time. But, that doesn't mean they should be ignored. Especially when they are so statistically significant. How many major airline incidents have we had in the last year? How many different airlines were involved? How many types of planes?

MH17 777 Goes down 17/7/14. Strange synchronicity with the number 7.

THAT'S NUMBERWANG

On 7th of March.

What the hell is it with numbers and some of you guys?

It is built into our brains to seek out and recognize patterns.

It's also built into our brains to follow routines and patterns.

The numbers are there aren't they, nothing to do with 'us guys'. Just points of interest and observations dude.

THE NUMBERS MASON WHAT FO THEY MEAN

And let's not forget how Israel may have a replica plane... I saw a picture with bodies though.

Occult numerology/astrotheology is a religion hidden in plain sight.

Sounds crazy but these guys leave their "fingerprints" all over it this way. It's actually quite effective for it to sound crazy to the commoners.

With 7 bags of peanuts on board.

http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israelis-planning-another-9-11-using-the-missing-777/

MH 17 s/n 28411 the twin to MH370 in Tel Aviv and MH 370 are 28411

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/32518092

Then where is the original MH17 plane? It's been flying for 17 years (to the day). Not discrediting your theory, just saying there has to be an explanation for the other plane.

One of the passengers posted this before boarding MH17

Haha, this is actually kind of funny. This is very typical Dutch humor, which clearly went over the heads of the British writer. Nothing to see here, move along.

It is definitely a bit morbid, but I'd say it was more of a "joke" that turned out to be a bit too untimely.

I say so because if I was about to board that plane, I'd laugh to myself and say "uhoh, I hope this one doesn't get lost!" and maybe do similar. Then of course people who saw the event happen would be aghast.

This certainly corroborates the notion that this was a different plane

I genuinely don't understand. Why does it? What's the difference?

People sense things sometimes. That picture may become very important in the near future.

That, I can't explain, other than with the old "switch-aroo" excuse. Why is destroying one plane any worse or better than the other? I don't know... "Their" motives and methods come from places with which I am not in touch.

It's not like I believe what I am proposing wholeheartedly. I would be foolish to do so, as I am not there, nor privy to vital information. But given events in the past, I feel it is important for us to at least consider these ideas.

congrats, most controversial comment here.

That's what I originally thought. I was thinking wow what a creepy end to that plane.

flightradar24.com down!

http://i.imgur.com/pRaOtoe.png

Its back

How about Russia trying to start WW3 by shooting a plane down near putins plane(that looked the same or whatever) and blame it on ukraine because its on their territory...like hitler invade Poland by faking a Polish attack on its own troops with his own troops disguised as Polish army...My thoughts on the subject anyway

The idea that it was Russia which shot the plane down is ridiculous. The people who actually have something to gain from this are the Ukraine government.

And the west can have its new cold war.

Not true russia has exactly just as much to gain. If the international media spins it into it being Ukraine's fault then russia gets to take a lovely stroll all the way through ukraine without nato lifting a finger or the EU getting involved. they no longer have to deal with any sanctions, and putib gets to be one step closer to his dream of the soviet bloc nations being dependent on, and part of, mother russia. it is just as possible , and has just as many advantages for Russia as it does for Ukraine.

If the international media spins it into it being Ukraine's fault

Hah. You, Me, and Russia knows that would NEVER be the case.

Except it is, buddy.

Evidence seems to point that way, yes...

yeah, Us intelligence says your wrong. I believe them.

it was a Russian SAM and these Separatists (backed by Russia) were shooting down 3-4 planes within the week. So likely they were shooting down another plane, and the idiots didn't know it was a commercial flight.

The reality is, if they knew, they WOULDN'T of done it. I don't think Russian or their backed boys in Ukraine ever wanted this to happen. 100% chance they are working to misdirect right now and clean up so we can never prove -100% - who shot it down. they even moved the launcher that did the deed back into russian territory. I'm betting its getting dismantled

yeah, Us intelligence says your wrong. I believe them.

Did you believed them when they claimed there were WMD's in Iraq? We now know this was a lie.

Did you also believed them when they claimed they had evidence that Assad used poison gas on civilians in Syria? We now know, thanks to the UN investigation that it was the rebels backed by the USA who did it.

Almost every single excuse the USA has used to justify further occupation and war in the middle-east has been shown to be a lie.

When will you realize you cannot trust your media or government? - Especially on the subject of Russia or the middle-east?

yup--false flag attack is what that is called.

Why would Russia want to start WW3? There is no coming out of that a victor and they know it.

Ukraine isn't worth much really as far as occupying it. The wheat, potatoes, coal, iron, etc can just be bought. Mostly the country is just a raw exporter and something that is in the way of better markets.

Shit is odd. Why another Malaysian plane?

And why do those passports look better than mine?

Malaysia did many things that could be perceived as hostile to the US shadow government.

They found Bush & Cheney guilty of war crimes in court in 2012. They created a gold-backed currency. They refused loans from the IMF. Not sure if that was it, but these things "they" do not like.

The Malaysians are also the first to charge Israel for genocide and they have so far refused the signing of the TPPA agreement. Malaysians former PM Mahathir was at one point the only serious politician actually talking about the Zionists and their control over various organizations.

this passport thing (and people wondering about it) is about perfect example of "whahhh? you think"

God - seriously people. If you were faking a airplane crash I'm sure you would hit every passport with a bic lighter. its only reality that is abnormal and unexpected.

Plane disappears off the face of earth, few months later the same type of plane from the same air line is shot down creating a Jus ad bellum (multi national casualties). It's a bit suspicious to me.

As of last month over 1,200 777's had been built. If there was a strong connection I doubt the perpetrators would pick the same model of the same company. Unless they were both shot down after hijackings. Which you'd think they'd tell us to inspire more fear.

Or the perpetrators know how to tale control of it remotely

I believe it's the same plane that "vanished" which is why they didn't find it earlier this year it was going to be shot down there by justifying NATOs entrance into the conflict...war....spat...whatever this is.

Registration number of the missing plane ends with a D

Registration number of the shot down plane ends with a O

Both registration numbers are otherwise identical. Looks like we're playing the "Boy Howdy That's A Lot Of Coincidences!" game again.

And the registration number is relevant how?

Looks like we're playing the "Boy Howdy That's A Lot Of Coincidences!" game again.

TIL that this kind of thinking is not pure satire.

Let me ask you a serious question: do you only ever discuss things you have verified for yourself to be 100%, unequivocally true?

I... really don't get what that has to do with you thinking the coincidence of the registration number of one plane ending with D and the other ending with O matters.

And no, of course I don't, because almost nothing is 100% strongly verifiable.

As a result of the crash near Donetsk mankind lost about a hundred specialists in the fight against AIDS. In addition, the board could be a cure for HIV.

Or maybe (extreme long shot) evidence HIV/AIDS was man made.

and these specialist were to be silenced. But i think that is just another subplot to steer attention/ confuse.

If this AIDS specialist plot line takes off, then it wont be soon after when everything fishy about concerning the crash itself becomes just a debate over AIDS. I'm not doing good job here trying to explain myself but something like: "Hey, theres something fucking fishy going on with that whole malaysian airlines crash" - "What so you are one of those AIDS denyer conspiratards. So you think AIDS is fucking imaginary disease. HAHA! GTFO. Case CLOSED"

What do you make of this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=772_1405690761

This whole thing has got to be, by far, the fishiest fucking story I've ever heard. Everything around this plane is fucking crazy.

I'm going with the air traffic control guy! I hope we find out who he is & hear more from him.

We will probably never hear from him again.

But you guys are right: when it stinks, something is rotten.

Edit: Looks like he got deported. Interested to see if he will give future interviews, or if they shut him up.

Damn! Deported, that is crazy, gonna have to look it up when I get home.

Seriously this thing is rotten

Source for deportation?

Here under "Update":

" We are informed that the twitter account of the Spanish air controller has been closed down. Following his statements, he and is family have been threatened by the Kiev regime, including death threats.

He has been deported from Ukraine. He is a man of courage and determination committed to the truth. "

rendition

It seems unlikely that the Russians would do this deliberately.

And it would also be one hell of a gamble, for the Ukrainians to do it, as a false flag.

Could have been an accident…if the missile launcher was being operated by Russian separatists without the proper training, they might have mistakenly left it in “automatic” mode, wherein it launches at anything in range.

Isn't it just another "problem-reaction-solution"? That's all i'm seeing. Don't believe for a second what mainstream media is telling us...

ensactly.

Here's another theory you guys can consider..

Governments are tying to create frictions against the allies between Malaysia and Russia.

In January 2013 - Malaysia is the first country to step out to public stating they pledge to stand with Palestine. Malaysia also a strong communist country. Soviet Union has always been strong support to Malaysia.

In Late 2013 - Israel was found to bought Boeing 777 from Malaysia airline and was kept in Tel Aviv, just being parked there.

In March 2014 - Mh 370 mysteriously went missing. With unknown cargo. Until today, the Malaysia government didnt answer, why the weight of cargo given and the things in the cargo didn't not match up.

In July 2017 - Before MH17 incident, Malaysia government publicly announce they will stand with Palestine. with Strong message "http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v7/ge/newsgeneral.php?id=1054045"

Also Israel has start ground attacks, Malaysia attention has been diverted to MH17.

The video that caught the explosion of MH17, was exploded on ground. If it were shot down, wont there be trail of smoke from the skies and to the ground??

http://www.rightthisminute.com/video/malaysia-airlines-boing777-allegedly-shot-down-over-ukraine

All of these does not match up.

Problems with your statement. 1. Malaysia was always pro US when it came to the cold war. They even fought a war against a communist insurgency. 2. WTF. Malaysia is a muslim county. They obviously support Palestine. It has nothing to do with that shit.

November 2013, Malaysia finds Israel guilty of genocide.

Malaysia is a muslim country, of course they side with Palestine. They're also not a "strong communist" country. Neither is Russia.

So I'll put this out there. But could we be seeing a demonstration of hacking of a commercial airliner? Both the MH370 and the MH17 were 777's and so might have some common exploit that make the planes vulnerable.

Just a thought.

This was my first thought, both planes signals were lost, if someone can correct this.

Well if you are going to hack a planes on board systems I am guessing that communication and telemetry would be the first things you disable as you take control.

Of course you have to ask why some one would want to do this, but this is /r/conspiracy after all...

Yep - hacking commercial air frame. It quite possible if you hack a airline to make it explode in mid-air. . complete with virtual missile fragment damage

I blew up my ex's car the same way. All evidence made it look like a missile from a drone hit it. . but in reality, it was just a hack I found on line called 'blow up my car"

I would not rule out the chance this was a provocative act by the west. Not a false flag, but still intentionally motivated. Malaysian airlines loses all communication with MH17 after crossing the Western border of Ukraine, is supposedly guided from its original southern flight path by two fighter jets directly over the no fly zone...The plane was intentionally sent flying over Donetsk, while guided by two fighter air craft, making it appear as a military plane....Separatists shoot it down and the west finally has a credible reason to gain international support for its campaign against Russia

Basically what I am saying right here:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-to-start-a-war-the-american-use-of-war-pretext-incidents/28554

lol go suck on putins dick some more.

Tragic mistake and coincidence...

A lot of those passengers were actually on their way to a Bali I've taken the reverse flight from DPS to KUL

Now the terrorist are free to fly MH370 into NYC armed with a nuke. Americans, Brits n Canadians are not going to shoot down a 777 with Malaysian markings.

I think by now they're prepared to shoot it down at sight, 9/11 won't happen twice i'm sure of that because they know if it does it'll result in total anarchy in the country. Saying it like that when assuming it isn't a government related crash like last time but a terrorist attack the second time.

Interesting.

yeah, there are easier ways to get a plane that size. . .and smaller if a nuke. . .than the Mh370 oddity.

Does anyone remember this?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video

so I just read this...conspiracy?

100 of the worlds best.....

Apparently, leading AIDS researchers have a terrific track record for dying in terrible and mysterious plane crashes.

• http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/04/us/jonathan-mann-aids-pioneer-is-dead-at-51.html

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111

I swear. this is what I think it has to do with. Big Pharma would fall to pieces, who knows if any of the people on that plan had a cure, needing funding for trials for a cure etc. it does not surprise me one bit theories circulating around the US supplying or somehow supporting this and covering it up as Russias fault

I'm sure "big pharma" makes a bit of cash selling AIDS medications, but does it really make enough to make it worth the risk of shooting down a jet full of people, including some AIDS researchers (that haven't even found a cure)?

Don't think so. Occam's razor applies.

Good observation! Someone here shared this documentary on Flight 111... I lost track of where, but it's worthy of a re-post.

Proof of NATO involvement in false flag attack on MH17?

Turns out there was a live drill last month which involved NATO fighters shadowing commercial airliners, jamming their transponders and broadcasting a military transponder signal in its place. This would explain the reports of Ukrainian SU-25s shadowing MH17 - electronic warfare to make the 777 appear like a hostile military plane to the missile crews.

SU-25s are ground attack jets that have neither the service ceiling nor speed to "Shadow" a 777.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU-25

An unladen SU-25 can reach 22,000ft, well within the 4km range outlined in NEWFIP to be able to jam and spoof the civilian transponder. And for all we know, an F-16 out of Poland could have done the job. Time will tell, but there's no denying that this drill just one month before looks very fishy.

SU-27 has the capability to reach far beyond the height of the 777...60,000 ft service ceiling. Ukraine has 70 of them EDIT: The Su-27 (I forgot to mention) is an air superiority fighter...The SU-25 (Best plane in the world IMO) is a CAS aircraft, but does have R-60 air to air missile capable of shooting down hostile helicopters and low flying jets. It is also equipped with a 30 mm cannon that can rip tanks to pieces :)

I'd caution restraint before everyone jumps to conclusions. We all know the MSM will spin this in whatever way advances the octopus's plans. Wait till tomorrow and analyze everything with fresh eyes.

No real discussion can take place currently. They will drown out everything that does not suit their story.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lifenews_ru/status/489821390040993793/photo/1 how is it possible that all these passports are in such prestine condition after looking at the other wreckage?

Body parts are scattered around up to 15 km from the crash site. And the passports must have been in suitcases so protected from the dust. Just imagine throwing a suitcase from the top of the empire state building. The suitcase will be damaged but the passport in it may be fine. The same thing with throwing a passport from the skyscraper.

Passports are designed to survive plane crashes and fires. They're also standardized worldwide. There's no conspiracy when you see a passport intact after a disaster.

Passports are ALWAYS in a pocket, on your person. Come on now.

When i fly i always put it in my bag. I don't want to fly 10 hours with that in my pocket.

Oh, much easier to find those after a massive crash. My mistake!

Never had it in my pocket when flying internationally, kept in my bag under my seat.

Oh, much easier to find those after a massive crash. My mistake!

Just like the WTC attacks.

First thing is that came to my mind

It's almost as if passports are universally made to withstand crash and fire.

Remember to save any suspicious videos or images on your drive so you can reupload them later should they mysteriously disappear off websites.

excellent thinkin' there, mageant.

Zerohedge had an interesting article on flight paths and possible diversion earlier tonight. Unfortunately, Zerohedge is down right now (at least for me). In any case here is there tweet about the article:

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/489936286783135744

Well, it looks like the US response is going to be - nothing at all. How can we gauge this? It's easy, if shit is going to hit the fan gold goes up, it it's not, gold goes down. Gold initially went up on the news of the crash, now it's creeping back down because Washington has told the money men not to worry, they'll just use it to encourage the EU to cut gas purchases from Russia. Hence, not a false flag - it's a real incident but it won't result in WW3 so we can all get back to Bieber.

This was pointed out to me:

http://www.flightradar24.com/flight/mh17

Idk if you can look at the cache page and see if it was "canceled" before the actually crash

Website down. STRANGE.

It probably crashed from all the traffic it would be getting over this story

http://i.imgur.com/yz6e071.png

Uh

Israel is launching ground offensive. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/israel-launches-ground-operation-gaza-strip-n158646

How are these two events connected? Not challenging you, just curious.

Misdirection? News media feed you a juicy story of an airliner shot down in one part of the world to draw your attention from an invasion in another part of the world.

Just something to watch, don't get so involved in one that you miss other things.

Video of the plane falling out of the sky. Missile strike to right wing

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA

Looks like just the right wing sustained damage. Those people were alive all the way to the ground. Horrible.

I'm told that was actually the Ukraine military jet turboprop AN-26 which was shot down a few days ago

Just looked and you are correct, here it is uploaded June 6:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB4xJ_F3ddA

CNN made a big fuckup airing this footage.

14 July - Ukraine military plane shot down as fighting rages

*Use a custom date range in Google running up to the moment before the crash so your results don't get swamped with this news story.

Damn, this needs some visibility.

source?

I thought the plane disintegrated in mid-flight. Any comm from the pilots ?! Any mayday signal or telematics from the plane/engine system ?!

This is the downing of an AN-26. If this was MH17, the pilot would have sent an emergency massage, which he didnt.

Been talking with my dad and we have a theory that this was set up as a diversion for the Israeli-Palestine war. A lot of news media outlets don't even bother with reporting the situation there and the American government don't even seem to be taking it serious. Both wars are pretty much identical in terms of the situation (land grabbing) so since the Ukrainian-Russian situation has gone quiet it became an opportunity for the bigger powers to relocate their focus on Russia (an important power in our world) again using the Ukrainian government to shoot MH17 down.

Proof-read 29 times because I'm using my phone so there might still be plenty of errors

Things just seems really fishy now, this is going from an investigation to the sound of war drums.

This event has doubled the daily average of "free thinkers", I come here most days ad there is usually, roughly 400-500, today it is double that.

Tin foil suit and hat are on.

Anyone remember that shit back in the day called the webbot? Anyone remember how shortly before it went offline and what have you, it mentioned scientists and other prominent people going missing?

I think if I had unlimited resources, this is how I would kidnap those I want to utilize whether for my nefarious plot to conquer the world, or the cliche of we are pulling the best,and brightest for our breakaway civilization.

I know, crazy.. But I do believe it is really easy to A: swap a plane midair for another, or B: switch planes before takeoff. Either way, I think planes are easily disguiseable as a different plane

CNN is pimping it now with a new headline

ugh...

Welcome to everything in the news for the next 3 weeks. They are gonna pimp the dead children and tactical airstrikes on Ruinia will be recommended.

Anti Russian propaganda being flooded out by American MSM.

The U.S. is an empire and a military plutocracy, certainly no real democracy exists there, nor can it be allowed to. The imperial-piratical system in place in the U.S. post-Cold War cannot, nor does it seek, to outperform in kind the stabilist mercantile forms at which Germany and Japan excel (neither, of course, does it have the demographic reserves of a vigorously industrialized China), rather, it pursues through the force of unequaled military might (legacy of its unscathed position after WWII) to create and determine the very terms of order and even of existence on this Earth, but—and this is key—not through the imposition/maintenance of a stable and expansive Pax Americana, but rather through the supposedly controlled disruptive yet creative potential of perpetual war throughout the unconcluded project of history.

Yes it's true, we destroy and rebuild and repeat.

We supported the rebuilding of Germany and Japan, while allowing them to retain their culture and dignity.

China is rich in resources, but morally bankrupt. Thanks to America, China has a middle class now.

Regardless of the last 20 years of insanity in this country, America and Americans have improved the world immeasurably.

War has been perpetual throughout history, that's not America'a fault.

We've fed billions of people, spent hundreds of trillions on global wellfare, and sacrificed our lives for the health and safety of the people on this planet. Yet 'America' is the bad guy?

Don't worry, the American empire is going to collapse soon and the suffering will be endless.

Yesterday i found a website that comprehensively summed up the story of a spanish air traffic controller working in Kiev at the time of the mh17 disaster. It contained twitter screenshots, translations and a link to a spanish RT video. As far as i know he received death threats and was deported (to spain) and wants to stay anonymous (but i think is first name is Joseph if i remember correctly).

I wanted to show that site to a friend who is also intrested in hearing all the sides on this and the article simply doesnt exist anymore. Does anyone have a good source that is still online, other than imgur screenshots and reddit threads?

Can someone please explain to me why the live footage of the wreckage is billowing black smoke and in the footage of the found wreckage parts there's no sign of scorching or fire?

I believe those pictures are of the scattered wreckage.

It was a plane full of fuel to make a long trip. If it blew up in the air the parts would spread and the fuel would catch fire. The parts that spread away from the fuel tanks would not be as burned and might even be unburned while the areas with the fuel tanks will be an inferno for a while.

Yes, why doesn't the footage show the plane damaged or on fire while still in the sky? The fireball doesn't seem to appear until it hits the ground.

This could be due to a number of things. I'm not totally sure, but by the time people noticed the plane and started filming, the smoke in the air could have dissipated and the plane could have crashed.

There are pictures of bodies and wreckage everywhere.

How come all the smoke is coming from a ground explosion... Where is the smoke trails in the sky either from the aircraft or the surface-to-air missile..?

The plane may have suffered more physical damage than explosive - maybe it took a lot of shrapnel. The plane doesn't have to catch on fire to go down.

Yeah but, there's video's showing the explosion on the ground and while that happens there is no smoke in the sky yet... there would be smoke trails all over there sky if missile's were fired and the plane fell from the sky...

Wasn't there reports of the plane being found in Israel?

An identical 777 is/has been stored in Tel Aviv by a US based company

There are 777s everywhere.

No, it was a Malaysian 777 stored in Tel Aviv. Malaysia also has no diplomatic or economic ties with Israel and an American company was used to first buy the Malaysian 777 and ship it to Florida and then it was sent to storage in Tel Aviv, Israel.

So what's the significance? Malaysian Airlines (and pretty much every other air carrier) that operates 777s have multiple planes in their fleets.

Nothing significant as of yet, but a plane painted with Malaysia airlines livery could be used in some sort of false flag attack since the disappearance of flight 370.

Who would want to use a Malaysian Airlines plane for a false flag attack? Furthermore, who the hell would gamble on a false flag attack involving a large plane with 300 passengers on it that may not work?

where were there reports of this: are you just making this up?

http://www.intellihub.com/will-matching-malaysian-airlines-777-stored-israeli-hangar-later-used-false-flag-attack/

What we need is an other look asap to check if it is still there

Also started another thread because I'm getting downvoted to shit in here.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2b00fg/remember_that_identical_777_that_israel_was/

Wow, you are spot on.

Just pasting in here from that link:

Details uncovered by DAHBOO77 and displayed on PlaneLogger.com’s website confirm that the plane was placed into storage on Nov. 11, 2013 in Tel Aviv.

Details for Registration N105GT

GA Telesis LLC – 777-2H6ER

Serial 28416

Line Number 155

First Flight 25.07.98

Model 777-2H6ER

Status Stored

Comments r21.10.13 frd Lourdes-Tel Aviv 04.11.13,none

So its serial number is 28416, though that could (?) be changed.

Good work Sherlock!

Holy shit so an airplane leasing company did their job and leased an airplane to Malaysian Airlines, and then they stored that plane once the lease finished?

What the fffuuuucccckkkkkk /s

[deleted]

It reflects in my down votes!

Exactly. She shills are trying hard to silence you. Its only making your voice and words louder. Such idiots, but this should not surprise us adterbhow badly they fucked up Aurora, the NAVY shipyard, SANDY HOAX, the Boston Firecracker, and the gayest/most ridiculous - Eliott Rogers.

It's not really shills downvoting you, it's just people who realize that it's not weird for an airplane leading company to have an airplane they leased previously in their hangers. They even have that information available on public documents.

Why would a company lease an airplane to store it?

They leased it out, but it wasn't currently being leased so it was in storage. It's not uncommon.

don't forget Chris Dorner

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiracy] Remember that identical 777 that Israel was hiding? I did.

• [/r/conspiratard] A company in storing its Boeing 777 in Israel. It&#x27;s a conspiracy for some asinine reason.

^{If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.}

so is this what the pentagon should have looked like on 911?

[deleted]

How are they different. Please explain.

If you seriously need me to explain the difference for you...

One crashed into an open field. So it hit the ground. And you can clearly see the wreckage from the plane from all angles.

The other crashed into a building. So it didn't just hit the ground. Again, it crashed into a building. So the wreckage from the plane will be less visible. It will be mixed with the wreckage from the building, and not visible from all angles and harder to spot. But it's still there.

yeah, the wings disintegrate when they hit concrete, but slice right through steel leaving cartoon cutouts . depending on your choice of physics.

What the hell...?

Been posted multiple times

Translated headline: "Air Traffic Controller: The Boeing 777 "flew fighters escorted by two Ukrainians" before disappearing"

What if this whole deal about Malaysian airplanes is a plot by the US to assassinate Putin?

The flight that got shot down deviated from it's original path slightly. They might have planned to have it collide with Putin's plane "by accident". Putin's intelligence knew and shot it down.

The first Malaysian plane surved the purpose of showing the world that this series of planes from Malaysia Airlines has a faulty navigation that makes them deviate from their path. So the first one got lost, and the second one crashed into another plane.

What if its all a plot to assassinate the Prime Minister of Malaysia?

Blue Steel :)

Putin is so hot right now!

funny how we were BFFs with Pootie Poot when W was POTUS. Now? Guess it was time for a new bogey man?

It is an interesting thought. Though currently I am intrigued by the Spanish air traffic controller tweets saying it was a Ukrainian job.

To prevent a collision, they shot it down after it could have taken place?

Assassinating world leaders is so 20th century. Most amateurs aren't even dumb enough to attempt this anymore, let alone states.

Made a throw away because I usually just lurk here.

First let me say, this is a tragedy, if it is as we're being told, a case of trigger happy pro Russian rebels with access to sophisticated weaponry getting carried away or mistaken and shooting MH17 down.

However, because I love a good conspiracy, and because this just feels like way too much of a coincidence, this theory popped into my head. Feel free to pull it apart completely as it has pretty much no basis other than conjecture. I could be joining dots where there are none and I have my tin foil hat on for this, so I'm ready to get torn down.

My first assumption is that this is not what it seems. I always start by asking the question when extraordinary events happen, "who stands to benefit"? There is nothing to suggest anything out of the ordinary with this yet, but bear with me.

Let's say that MH370 (the other one) was taken by a rogue element of a nation state (we'll call them Blue) that had reason to believe its political and economic interests in another country were under threat of attack. Blue, had intelligence that a plan was underway by another nation state, let's call them Red, to regain their former power and influence. However for political reasons both domestically and internationally, this Blue is completely unable to step in militarily to halt the perceived threat. They needed a smoking gun, something like 911 or WMDs in order to justify military intervention to protect their interests under the guise of playing world police. With their previous experience of successful fabrication of plane crashes, Blue decides to engineer a solution to the smoking gun problem.

Based on the further assumption that if you can make a 777 disappear, you could also make it reappear, you then have an interesting possibility. 2 months of intense logistics and a mysterious disappearing plane later, Blue is ready to fire the gun and start stoking the fire for a build up to war.

Let's step into the shoes of Blue for a moment and understand their world view. A war in Europe would help destabilize an entire region and further your interests there by threatening a faltering economy and currency still reeling from the economic meltdown you engineered. It would serve to re establish your home country both militarily, politically and economically, opening important new markets for weapons, reconstruction and the like. Further, it would help distract attention away from impending political meltdown at home and serve to line the pockets of those who helped your "element" achieve the power and influence it has come to wield.

/conspiracy

Both the U.S. & Russia are the proxy hands playing Risk there. This tells me satellites that can read the year on a penny are double super extra heavily scoping this tiny area of the world 24/7. IMO if neither side produce "eye in orbit" images showing the exact location of what ever hit the plane then hiding such info from the masses would be done to keep the profitable ill war machine in slaughter mode.

If no peace is forced then war is forged in tandem to sell, for hell on earth is a gold mine alchemically transmutated from blood, lead, & steel.

A wise man once wrote & warned of the games.

"The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous."

Rarely see real winners nor honest whiners, just

               winers (  ゜Д゜)⊃旦 & 且_(ﾟ◇ﾟ；)ノﾞ diners
               ✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞✞                     

feasting on masses of flesh putting on a show while ill games of death are played by illetes eating dinner together in private exclusive clubs they both belong to. Examples: G8 clubs or simply Meeting At the Ritz

TL;DR: Solid finger pointing proof that both sides can agree to condemn with in days or IMO same ole same old BS war games both are taking to the bank.

þ

genocide is the overall intention--massive population reduction.

Its not needed anymore. Technology is outpacing the need for population control. Thats what I tell my self at night anyway.

It happened in Russia and China, Population Out paced technology and huge swaths of people were killed off.

I personally define genocide as intentional full extinction while the majority of the killers kept masses smile & cheer. [Some see genocide even when not fully implemented.]

I do not think the U.S. & Russia want to fully exterminate races in Ukraine nor do I think you are saying such, but while on the topic even when genocide [as I define it] seemingly happens in my mind, it is not easily widely acknowledged, as it then is usually debated because every death was not from war or simply ignored & forgotten due to pain & guilt.

The pulpit players overall intentions are often while slaughtering is presented alike a cheerily dreary made up fictional puppet show performed for the home masses to appease them from getting angry. I am glad I do not play their game nor pay for tickets.

Thanks for reading & for your relevant thought provoking post. I enjoyed remembering Truganini & her not lost to history people.

;þ

I wouldn't say Genocide but population reduction yes

Now think this may be a distraction from Israel/Gaza.

Remember Irsrael owned A Boeing 777 Malaysian airline

*http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/21gv1d/just_a_heads_up_a_malaysian_airlines_sister/

*http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis-php

No it's not a distraction.

That is a valid assertion, we'll add it to the list of what may have possibly happened.

Sorry, bored of explaining it to every conspiracy theorist, here from another comment:

1. A military invasion takes some kind of planning ahead. They didn't say "A plane was shot down, fast everyone attack gaza now!"

2. The attack was also announced earlier.

3. The "World" can watch multiple incidences at the same time.

4. The Gaza conflict is going on for ages. Literally everyone that reads news every now and then knows about it.

you're a real active one aren't you.

Well perhaps the Gaza Conflict isn't what is being distracted from then?

yeah, because cnn still publish gaza attack news in their website

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/07/17/tsr-magnay-israel-gaza-invasion-begins.cnn&amp;hpt=hp_c3&amp;from_homepage=yes&amp;video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F

I'm just leaving this here...Anybody thinks this could be the Tel Aviv Plane?

http://www.intellihub.com/will-matching-malaysian-airlines-777-stored-israeli-hangar-later-used-false-flag-attack/

NINJA EDIT: IT is EXACTLY the same model...Boeing 777-2H6ER

There are a lot of planes in the world.

How many of those?

Gate 09-11? http://imgur.com/4Q1cJck

Am I the only one who finds this to be more evidence that flight 93 didn't go down the way they say it did on 9/11? This plane was most likely shot down yesterday by a missile and there was a ton of debris and bodies. Flight 93 there was almost nothing.

There's a difference between objects in free fall reaching terminal velocity around 200 miles per hour and objects pile driving into the ground under max thrust at around 600 miles per hour.

Drop a coffee mug on the ground by just letting go of it. And then use all your strength to spike a coffee mug into the ground as hard as you can. You will notice the one you spiked has much smaller fragments.

I still think the fact that basically nothing was found is bizarre.

[deleted]

Israel owned A Boeing 777 Malaysian airline

*http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/21gv1d/just_a_heads_up_a_malaysian_airlines_sister/

*http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis-php

Reg: 9M-MRI Boeing 777-2H6(ER)

Distraction from Gaza?

I made a post about this, but in case no one sees it maybe this will be useful to some of you; http://globalnews.ca/news/1459910/plane-victims-long-dead-not-fresh-says-pro-russia-rebel-commander/

I was just thinking the same thing earlier

Source pls

It wasn't for a false flag, it was to fool a terrorist. They had broken his communications, but didn't want them to know. So, instead of cancelling the flight and tipping him off, they filled the plane with already dead people.

What are four (4) 20+ pounds live pigeons doing on board MH17? http://imgur.com/SnccQ1O

These are some properly heavy live pigeons!

(source: the cargo manifests.)

The "SHIPMENT OF POT" concerned me more.

It was probably 4 pallets of chickens, not 4 individual chickens.

That or they were in cages that weighed 20 lbs.

Two dogs. =(

How did you get the shipment manifest?

they say it´s done by ukrainian rebels... But there is one thing I don´t understand. How is it possible that the united states is the first country which comes with proof that the plane is shot down by the rebels... I mean Russia or Ukrian should be the first country which should have shared what happend not the united states... That just doesn´t make sense...

Because somebody fucked up major and won't admit to it. If it was the sepratists they won't admit because then that would mean they're done, Russia won't sell them out like that either, if it's was Ukraine same thing.

NSA dude.

Plus the US has an agenda to push from their Money-Overlords.

The IMF is forcing Ukraine to Attack the eastern borders because if Ukraine falls into russian hands, that is a lot of lost money for them.

The IMF has straight up told Ukraine that their loan will be renegotiated if they lose their eastern border. That sounds like a threat to me.

I don't understand why they would load the plane with partially decomposed corpses. They have to know at least some of the bodies will be identified..? And what will their story be when the identified bodies don't match the passenger manifest?

Maybe they expected the plane to come down in a Ukraine controlled area.

When TWA 800 went down, a great deal of energy was put into the official story that it was "not a missile" that took the plane down. By some accounts, eyewitnesses were intentionally discredited/barred from testifying to perpetuate this version of events. I find it interesting that so much energy is being put into the missile theory in this case, simply of because how fast and certain the response is comparatively. I'm even more interested to see what kind of eye witness accounts come out as this unfolds, if any.

that was an excellent documentary..it's on netflix and I watched it shortly after MH370 went missing. (I am not affiliated with the doc) but anyone posting/reading on this sub would definitely find it interesting.

Name of the doc?

Strategy of Tension = Systemic Destabilization

Photographs emerge of shrapnel damage on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/07/21/photographs-emerge-of-shrapnel-damage-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-17/

First forensic evidence of a surface-to-air missile (and not air to air) details in the link.

One central question in this is the following: was it shot down by a surface-to-air missile or by an air-to-air missile. Analysis of the shrapnel should be able to answer that question. If it was an air-to-air missile, Ukraine is going to have some explaining to do.

"Mr. Shit! Please allow me to introduce you to Mr. Fan ! Mr. Fan, please meet Mr. Shit !"

Google Operation Rapid Trident II.

Pro-tip regarding the name of the operation. 3 planes, one in the front, two following in the rear. I know its pretty obvious, but this shape forms the trident. And a trident is a weapon.

The NATO nations knew what they were doing and they got 300 civilians killed. Nice job provocateurs.

elaborate

So early in June NATO forces were doing drills with Ukraine's air force. The drill was to fly behind a civilian aircraft 3-5 kilometers. (this way the airliner wouldn't be able to physically see the fighter jets nor have any detectors on board to detect military craft.) They would then duck down bomb their targets and fly behind the civilian aircraft. This operation was called Rapid Trident II.

Since Early July civilian aircraft have been banned from flying over that region. So why was MH17 flying over it? was it pilot error or were they instructed by Ukraine air traffic control? The black box might tell the tale. Since the Russian Separatist are in control of the scene Right now the media is selling it as a bunch of drunks trying to pry it open with a screw driver and a cigarette in their mouths.

further more, I heard this analysis from the no agenda show from july 20th that, civilian aircraft radar in europe went out a wide scale at the same time NATO/Ukraine were doing drills regarding radar jamming. And then they totally denied it was them.

Here is another thing to think about, the BUK missile is very advance. It can detect a military aircraft signal vs a civilian aircraft signal. You have to be able to confirm the thing you are killing before you launch a missile at it from 20 miles away.

So this is the theory: Ukraine's air force is flying behind this MH17 without them knowing. To tell the truth, sounds like using human shields similar to Hamas. They blip out the civillian aircraft radar so it becomes invisable, then they crank up their MIL signal and goat the russians into firing a missile up at them. With MH17 in front of them. The Russian separatist see a confirmed MIL signal and fire a missile at Ukrainian Aircraft. they duck out and the missile takes out a civilian aircraft. Russia is like, what the fuck happened?? Our signal said military.

Pretty fucked up tactic to force the world to start war with russia. http://rt.com/news/us-uk-ukraine-crimea-069/ I bet they sold this as an escort mission.

Meanwhile this happened yesterday and no one is mentioning it: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/world/europe/Malaysia-Airlines-jet-ukraine.html

So all in all, it looks like the Russian separatist probably did shoot it down, but maybe under false (spoofed) pretenses. This would all sound far fetched, but they drilled for this just last month.

Lastly everyone all now know, whenever you want to pull off a false flag, make sure to have the military do a drill regarding that exact scenario.

A quick MH370 thought.... It was reported that MH370 turned off all of it's identifying hardware and flew as high as 40,000ft... Could this have been evasive maneuvers by a pilot that knew what he was doing when trying to evade a rocket attack? You spot a rocket, first thing is to turn off all communications and radar devices, next, fly as fast and as high as you can, then fly downwards as fast as possible to gain as much speed. You're trying to keep as much distance from the rocket as you can so it runs out of fuel before it reaches you. You turn off all comms because missiles can use these as locks. Just a thought.

That's a really strange idea. But I can see your point. But which country would attack? China? North Korea?

I haven't go a clue. However, the chances of a 777 going missing is millions to one against, as too are the chances of one being shot out of the sky. However, the odds of both being the same airline are almost immeasurable. I find it odd that the MH370 pilot does what any good pilot would do when under rocket attack - go as dark as fast as possible (turn off everything electrical and anything that can identify you) and go as high as the airframe can withstand then take a very fast downwards motion to get as much speed as possible. This looks like evasive maneuvers to me. Logic would dictate that because of the odds involved it is most likely not a coincidence. Who shot the plane down over Ukraine? So far everyone is saying "it wasn't us" - how do we know they're not telling the truth? It might not have been either side. Who's got beef with Malaysia? I don't know.

[deleted]

Lol. I think you're looking in the wrong places buddy. 295 dead including 23 Americans is a BIT high of a price to pay to deflect media coverage from what is, in the grand scheme of things, small potatoes.

Fuck that shit. Keep your eye on power plays between Russia, USA, Israel, and Ukraine.

And pay attention to the Gaza Strip as well.

[deleted]

How does the TSA have anything to do with a flight being shot down over Ukraine while flying from Amsterdam and Kuala Lumpur?

I mean, really, how could TPTB try to spin this as having anything to do with the TSA? Buk missiles in Ukraine.

Awww, I made him delete all of his comments.

I love when that happens.. Nice work lol

Israel just invited Gaza. CNN is covering MH17 and not that. Nice distraction right?

I always think its too coincidental that these types of stories happen when major world events are happening. Israel/Gaza skirmishes going on right now, plane crash. Russian/Ukraine skirmishes, plane crash...

Why aren't the bodies burnt if they are that close to the wreckage? I may be ignorant, sorry.

plane was hit by missile mid air, creating a large debris field. Then The remainder of the plane landed and exploded, as seen in the video.

[deleted]

Because the plane didn't land and explode, it blew apart mid air. People went in all directions, fire went in all directions. I'm sure the landing killed most of those poor people. Plus as the other guy said, the fuel was held in the wings and passengers sit in the middle of the plane. Imagine going 500 miles an hour, 40,000 feet in the air then then a seat ejector being pushed. You fly out. Hit ground. Die.

There are a lot of remains that are burnt. there were also firefighters on scene putting out fires.

The fuel is located in the wings, some parts of the plane may only have had a brief flash of fire, when it impacted. THEN the fire starts to spread across the wreckage.

pretty common sense.

Cool thanks!

Pretty common sense from the guy who thought russia wanted to shoot down putin

Why is the plane different from the crash site to the one supposedly uploaded(tweeted) by a passenger before boarding?

http://i.imgur.com/UN2ofUB.jpg

Edit: I'm looking for other images but it looks like MH370 had a blanked out window.
http://imgur.com/7jSS8xj

Looks the same.

Directly under the flag a window is blanked out. Is it the angle of the picture in the tweet as to why you can't see it?

It's difficult to see in the tweeted picture, but the "blanked out" window is there. Here's a close up picture of the plane (9M-MRD): http://i.imgur.com/KdwfRdk.jpg (taken by this guy)

Yeah. I guess so. The angle and glare from the tweeted pic makes it seem like it's not there

Yeah. I guess so. The angle and glare from the tweeted pic makes it seem like it's not there

Blanked out? Dude, I am all for a good conspiracy but you're grasping at straws. Mothafucka coulda put the shade down because it was too bright.

Did u even look at the picture? It is not a shade. The window is not there in the wreckage photo.

Sorry man, I am pretty sure you are wrong. Looks identical to me - just different angles.

How is that different? Looks the same to me.

Flag is in the same direction...stripe is the same....window is right there...

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiratard] MH17 Discussion Thread : This is just ridiculous. Numerology and namely the number 7 can help explain the crashed plane

^{If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.}

Some people on reddit do not have never will understand sarcasm.

Guys, where's DAHBOO?

http://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2b00fg/remember_that_identical_777_that_israel_was/

dahboo is the man. excellent news source brah.

I remember people saying he was missing. I thought maybe he came back but then again... disinfo agents..

Phew, looks like he's still at it:

https://twitter.com/dahboo7

777

Occult Message in Speech by Christine Lagarde of IMF

"Now I'm going to test your numerology skills by asking you to think about the magic seven" "Most of you will know that seven is quite a number

Shot down by Ukraine on orders of .....?

South Africa

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696389/That-blast-look-smoke-Sick-boast-laughing-rebels-saw-MH17-hit-missile-hours-leader-boasted-We-warned-not-fly-sky.html only just found this thread, unsure if you have seen this article. Whoever this was and for whatever purpose. It is an act of pure evil. My heart goes out to the victims families. A truly heartbreaking event, innocent people dying, just shows that we are mere statistics when it comes to the bigger game

I cannot post a link because I'm using something that doesn't let me but, The Telegraph's youtube channel has/had a video about some collegues who work for the AIDS Foundation on the plane...could the plane have been taken out because someone on the plane had found a cure or vaccine for AIDS?

[deleted]

MH17 is just the designation for the flight route Amsterdam -> Kuala Lumpur serviced by Malaysian Airlines, it's not specific to any aircraft in particular.

At 33000 feet, would there be any bodies still intact on impact? I'm reminded of the so called crashed plane at 911 over the field where they said there wasn't one part bigger than your hand left. That was allegedly shot down by a missile.

The jet was taking a flight path regularly used by Russian planes. The Ukrainian nationalists fighting rebels who want to make their country part of Russia probably shot it down, thinking it was Russian. There are even reports they might have thought it was Putin's plane.

So they tried to shoot down Russians, and accidentally got a third party's aircraft.

100% false flag. I'm suspicious they used the other plane they stole and fucking staged the whole thing. We've seen what they can do.

http://jezebel.com/108-top-aids-researchers-killed-in-malaysia-airlines-cr-1607119208

108 AIDs researchers died on this flight?

edit: research the AIDs virus, current stuff though, I will sound mental going into it but if you see for yourself it will be better. There is a huge reason those guys were on that plane.

I honestly think that either Putin set this up or at the very least purposely supplied them and not that the rebels stole the soviet BUK from Ukraine. Probably to force other countries to co-operate with him and fix relations because he just showed them "how horrible" the situation is.

If you noticed, The UK, The netherlands now agree that the relations need to be stronger.

Yes. They were on that plane by chance. If it wasn't then it would be the CEO of whogivesafuck and 5 scientists.

this is terrible, but what about Lagarde's cryptic speech? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

also, wasn't the plane escorted by 2 fighter jets?

i'm worried this may be a false flag, news of Gaza is lessening

If this is a false flag, it's to get NATO into the Ukraine conflict. Not to distract from Gaza.

http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-plane-crash-182256709.html

18th anniversary of TWA Fl 800.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/height-of-ukraine-no-fly-zone-faces-scrutiny-1405639624

Posted this in main sub before I saw this..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696838/Fears-Americans-died-MH71-crash-State-department-investigates-agency-report-23-US-citizens-aboard-flight-shot-Ukraine.html

TL;DR: It was reported online yesterday that 23 Americans were onboard this flight. MSM is apparently investigating.

”What is inconceivable in normal times is possible in revolutionary times; and if at this time the opportunity is missed and what is possible in such great hours is not carried out--a whole world is missed”- Ben Guiron

So right now is there any evidence suggesting that Ukraine wasn't responsible?

Well, there was the social media post by the separatists (later removed) claiming responsibility for shooting down a plane. There is also released audio on YouTube of the separatists admitting they shot it down thinking it was a military vessel. However, the credibility of this evidence is debatable.

That video you mention of the separatists admission allegedly was created a day before the plane was shot down. There's another video floating around in this thread where someone had gone into the metadata of the video and found this information. One could argue time differences could account for it, and they do to some extent--putting the video creation 8 hours before the wreck.

I'm not meaning to suggest one way or the other, and such is the problem with the internet. Anytime you think you've found "proof," there's generally always "proof" pointing in the other direction.

It's a free for all of information--none of which, in my opinion, can or should be trusted.

Please don't take my comment as an endorsement for any evidence that I mentioned or that has been provided by either side. I do not necessary believe one way or the other, I just felt bad that no one had responded to his comment and thought I could sum the information so far.

Thank you for sharing your opinion!

Come on cerebral. D: I'll do anything you want if you just reply back to me. xD

I didn't feel like searching through 800+ comments to see if someone said this already but here's my theory: The Ukrainian military basically enticed the pro-Russian rebels to shoot down MH17 by sending two fighter jets to make it look like military operation. Russia has obviously been supplying the rebels with artillery so once they realized the rebels mistake, they conspired with them to point fingers and muck up the investigation as much as possible. Ukraine stands to gain the most should the rest of West have further enmity with Russia because right now apart from the "sanctions" that Putin just shrugs off, all they've received are a few disappointed head shakes. So Ukraine set the bait, a commercial flight full of international passengers, and the rebels took it and BOOM! The rest of the world is mad at Russia (again).

Edit: Apparently there was no Spanish air traffic controller!

[deleted]

Thanks for setting my facts straight! That misinformation made it a long way.

maybe, he was a Ukrainian with a spanish twitter handle, or maybe spain is lying....

likely he was deported to allow him to be renditioned/snatched/kidnapped, never to be seen or heard of again.

Hmmmm....

Ya know what, I think you are right... Now we gotta identify the planes that were seen with the jet

I like the No Agenda/Adam Curry theory:

Plane was shot down in order to make Putin and Russia look bad, in order to sway them from buying Russian oil and gas and use the US. They have been painting him as crazy for a long time in order to do this.

A military jet flew behind the plane in order to get them to accidentally lock onto what they thought was a military aircraft. They were running similar exercises a few days before.

So I was on Flight Tracker and for the hell of it I typed in MH17 and this is what came up...

http://imgur.com/Xr7pUKl

I'm no expert but, it says on July 17th(Crash Date) that the flight was canceled. Only to land on July 18th at 6AM at KUL early. Then on the 19th, it left at 4:15pm, 4 hours late only to land in at 10:02 AM when it was supposed to land at 6:10am. So from July 17th-19th is was completely off schedule? It still says it's in operation.

Could someone explain?

1. Its likely the software doesn't have a "bombed out of the sky" category for the flights.

2. MH17 is the code of the route, of the flight connecting any 2 points, not of the plane itself.

Oh ok.

Thanks

The bodies that were drained of blood. I wonder if they were also missing the pineal gland.

Workin on a partial theory -- for them, anyway.

3 Blogs re: MH17 WhiteApple An open letter to Robert Parry & Tom Engelhardt & the Families of Flight #MH17 - A Rant of the West - #MH17 http://whiteapple.ninja/ How to Seduce A Bear while Running Down the Mountain http://whiteapple.ninja/index.php/8-technological-progress-and-moral-evolution/4-a-perspective-on-cold-war-disarmament Facts regarding the Shelling of the Donetsk Train Station on 7/21 by Kiev forces or Making the Dead Wait http://whiteapple.ninja/index.php/8-technological-progress-and-moral-evolution/5-kiev-conflicts-itself

new reddit user, could use comments, criticisms, votes, corrections, viral etc. a few other things

Did Israel use this plane to distract the worlds attention away from the massacre in Gaza??

If they did it ain't working, Gaza is being covered as much as this story is

Seems like the US media is turning on Israel.

I kind of like it.

That is still 45% of airtime vs. 90%

I think it's relevant.

This flight went down 133 days after the first flight went down. 1+3+3=7.

Whats with all the 7s?

You're kidding right? Please tell me you're joking. Please.

The BBC are mentioning "Several of those on board - it is not yet clear how many - were heading for a major international conference on HIV/Aids in Melbourne, Australian officials said."

But not mentioning where anyone else was destined for.

Is it maybe to get the attention away from ghaza? I wonder...

Compilation of evidence:

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.se/2014/07/evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is.html

Both West and East sources.

some I didn't know, rotten passenger bodies. hole-punched passports, loads of them.

Weird as hell. Plane with some corpses and fake passports? See the pictures.

Evidence? Come on, this is even cheaper counterintelligence than Putin used to do. You try to play the game, but you play it bad.

Game, are you high?

http://www.reddit.com/r/creepy/comments/2az112/a_passenger_posted_this_on_facebook_right_before/cj082ce. Something is wrong

What if cure for AIDS was on that plane?

Well scientist document everything and make backups (usually ) so if a cure was found it still is available, a greater loss is the minds that have developed the cure(not being able to discover something else)

This may be going far out on a limb - but does it seem too far fetched too think, with all these aids/hiv experts and researches on the plane, that the russian government would have any interest in destroying that plane? Taking into consideration their stance on homosexuality and so on..

Interesting thought.

The limb just snapped.

Could it be possible that this attack was orchestrated by the Russian government to paint Ukraine as the killers of innocents and give a headline to the world to direct attention back to the area?

It just doesn't make sense that a commercial airliner would fly into airspace that has been designated as a no fly zone since april

It was no longer a no fly zone at altitudes above 30,000 ft. It was open to commercial flights and many had flown that route since it had been re-opened.

It makes no sense for Russia to do that. It does, however, make sense for Ukraine or the West or whoever hates Russia to bait Russian Rebels into firing at a civilian jetliner.

Or just do it themselves and then blame it on the Russians claiming 'initial evidence' points to it. Just look elsewhere in comments threads and everyone's on board with that thesis.

What kind of bookings are lost due to becoming full?

"Barry and Izzy Sim had been booked to travel on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which has been shot down on the Russia-Ukraine border, killing 298 people including 27 Australians.

But the couple, who were travelling with their baby, rebooked to a later flight with another airline after learning the flight was full, the UK’s Telegraph reported."

This happens a lot. You've never been in an airport and heard an announcement about a flight being full and the airport paying for lodging for the night?

nah this overbooking must be a new thing, I did a lot of flying like 20 yrs ago - never heard of it.

It's happened on literally every international flight I've been on and about half of domestic flights. They usually offer upgrades and discounts if you switch flights.

I travel for work. It seems to happen just about every flight now. Not sure how it happens, but it does.

They over book seats expecting people not being able to make the flight, so the plane always stays full.

http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

I just found it strange the major airliner events are with American Boeing 777s

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 (Boeing 777-200ER)

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (Boeing 777-200ER)

Asiana Airlines Flight 214 (Boeing 777-200ER)

Averted Crisis:

Japan Airlines (Boeing 777) - Japan Airlines Flight to San Francisco returned to Tokyo after crew hears of Flight 214 on the same day and mechanical failure warning is given. Mechanics on ground find hydraulic leak in their flaps.

Edit: These also all occurred in the past year, and all with Asian countries that are "close allies" with the US.

[deleted]

I think Europe went through a spate of Airbus related incidents (involving public commercial airliners) in the later 20th century.

Alistair Crowley

777

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/777_and_Other_Qabalistic_Writings_of_Aleister_Crowley

Maybe "occultists" are attracted to their symbols like moths to a flame, triggering their own desires of events. However, the Boeing 777 " ranks as one of Boeing's best-selling models" and "has received more orders than any other wide-body airliner" [wikipedia: /wiki/Boeing_777].

Also, "the Asiana Airlines Flight 214 accident in July 2013 was its first fatal crash in 18 years of commercial service."

Since July 2013, there were three major incidents and one averted incident. The major incidents involved Boeing 777s, and Asian based carriers, and all carriers are operated in countries that are 'closely allied' with the US with airplanes built in the US.

Maybe if you use magic numbers and symbols and you get magic results and riches.

Asiana Airlines Flight 214 (Boeing 777-200ER)

that SFO 'crash' was faked.

the video from the cell phone shows the plane cartwheeling before it came to a standstill, ditto the later released 'CCTV' video, yet the photos of the plane on the ground, and the video from when they removed the wreck, show NO damage to the nose or cockpit of the plane.

The plane pivoted under the cone to body section after 'belly flopping' onto the runway. The images shown do not show the point of rotation. The under side of the nose connection to the body then goes into the dirt, before rotating the plane as much of the kinetic energy is now pushing dirt. The plane then comes to a stop.

Why did the Kiev authorities not issue proper safety instructions after the Kiev military transport plane was shot down on 14th July? Did they want a civilian plane to be shot down over Donetsk? http://cjchivers.com/post/92236272756/a-catastrophically-insufficient-restriction-this

I have thought that this tragedy was distraction for what happen at Gaza. We know lately Gaza tension higher because Israel attack Palestine. While it's still happen, then this tragedy happened.

What about your thought?

Yeah I agree seen nothing of gazza in the papers today shameful

This is the 1000th comment! Yay!

Has anyone thought of the possibility that some people survived the crash?

Here we go again! Malaysian Airways have now started flying over Syria - I'm not even making it up. Are they on fucking drugs or something?

Edit: Oh and if you think this is common - flightradar.com said Malaysian Air are the ONLY airline to be flying over war torn Syria. Just as they were one of the only airlines to have flown over Ukraine. It's as though they're looking for trouble.

Joseph Farrell: NEWS AND VIEWS FROM THE NEFARIUM JULY 17 2014

Hey thanks axolotl_peyotl! Most welcome. And thanks for the link. Didn't know Joe had his own sub! :)

ps - that name, anything to do with peyote? ;) cheers.

It is already speculated that the plane was shot down by Ukranian army because it was mistaken for Russia's presidential plane that was in the air and maintained the same course at similar time.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=ru&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http%3A%2F%2Ftop.rbc.ru%2Fpolitics%2F17%2F07%2F2014%2F937293.shtml

Interesting, I could see this being the case.

"Okay guys, so here's the plan: We're gonna wait here where Putin's plane is going to cross overhead. It'll be a big white passenger plane with red/blue stripes down the sides. Don't miss it!"

I can only imagine the "shiiiiiiiiiiet....." reaction when they realize it was the wrong plane. There will be the guy that goes, "come on man, why would they paint it the same color scheme?!"