Yeah the war drums are beating. I swear if they try to draft me I'm going to revolt. I'd rather fight wall street than Russia. That is where the real enemies are.

These are my own thoughts as well. I ain't fighting the Russians, when our lives are being destroyed from within.

Damn straight! I mean even if we beat the Russians what the hell could we expect to come home to?! The bankers owning even more shit while us middle class and poor people lose our loved ones while those shitbags hide out in Dubai?!

Let's just hope the Russians see it the same way as us, lol

Yeah frankly that is what I'm betting on. I think it was Goebbels who said that of course the peasants of germany don't want to fight the peasants of france. But that it is the job of the government to make them fight.

I really hope that I am not making the wrong move relying on Russian cynicism. On the other hand what else can they do but fight if the US invades? Which is the most likely situation if a war breaks out because the US military is not defensive in structure.

All I can say then is that I will not be one of the men invading Russia.

Our only hope may be to collectively refuse to obey the draft, I just hope enough people are actually willing to do it.

I think if enough people refuse loudly and vigorously right in the beginning then maybe we have a shot at a bringing the banker run government down.

It's critically important that young people are aware of the lies behind this push to war. They always go for the youngest eligible in a draft. With the garbage being taught in schools these days 18 year olds won't understand what's really going on here. I was in high school when 9/11 happened, I recognized something was wrong with the story but it wasn't until years later that I started to really understand how the world is manipulated. I'm almost 30 so a draft isn't as big of a personal concern for me, but I can't agree more that we need to see this stop.

Wow being in high school when 9/11 happened must have been pretty spooky. That whole year right after 9/11 was completely crazy with the biggest censorship crackdown and just general oppression I had ever seen. I was an adult though and had for years been learning to distrust my government. Watching the government's reaction to 9/11 really cemented my belief that the people who rule us are psychopaths and totally out of touch with reality.

As for being to old to draft you should understand that if you have a necessary skillset you might still find yourself drafted. I read an article a few years ago about how they were going to change the enlistment standards to allow older people with IT skills for instance. Maybe that has changed now I don't know.

But I do know that my son is getting into the draftable age and he won't be answering the call.

Count me as a conscientious objector.

An important point that should be noted:

conscientious objection is not good enough; you're still supporting the war machine

do you think the guy who cooks for the soldiers is any less responsible than the guy who pulls the trigger?

If mail comes to my house, am I required to open it and read the contents?

Relax, our generation is protected by mutually assured destruction, we lucked out.

The plague protects the sick?

Only if you're speaking of radiation sickness. Welcome to the future.

It hasn't happened yet.

There is still time to avert this madness.

To be fair, people have been claiming we're on the brink of worldwide nuclear war since we invented nukes. So yes, we can change our path. It just isn't easy when the system is so thoroughly set against you if you aren't a member of the elite.

It just isn't easy when the system is so thoroughly set against you if you aren't a member of the elite.

Systems come and go. They can be destroyed and new systems put in their place.

I'm with you (sharpens pitchfork), we just never actually do anything about it

Never is a strong word. History is rife with examples of people doing something under conditions like these. The social control is cracking and the rulers are becoming desperate. Their fear is displayed by their attempts at increasing the social control and surveillance web that they force us to live under.

I dont think it is that we NEVER do anything about it. I just think it's a question about whether we will take action before these psychopaths that rule us destroy everything with their fear and ignorance.

i like your style.

There is certainly a herd-rush to indict Russia or Russia sponsored forces in the Malaysian airliner incident.

For me, the matter is not so cut and dried and I can see absolutely no positive gain any pro-Russian would derive from shooting down a civilian plane.

Additionally, we have history as a guide to such incidents; remarkably, the US and Russia(USSR) have shot down civilian planes in the past and the Ukraine as well.

Each situation varied in details:

• 1983: The Russians claim they mistook the Korean airliner for a US RC-135 Recon aircraft... "The Soviet government expressed regret over the loss of life, but offered no apology and did not respond to demands for compensation. Instead, the USSR blamed the CIA for this "criminal, provocative act"

• 1988: The US claims it mistook the Iranian Airliner for a F-14 Tomcat fighter...and paid reparations.

• 2001: The Ukrainian government blamed the shooting of the Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 on a "mistake" during the testing of the Buk, S-300.

The MH17 shootdown benefits NATO. It puts Putin in a corner. Putin will no longer be able to support the rebels without appearing to openly support terrorism when NATO/U.S. has finished their kangaroo "investigation" and concluded that the perps were the rebels. (Let's remember that less than one year ago, Putin stopped a U.S. bombing of Syria in the U.S. "WMD" rerun of the Iraq invasion. Let's watch and see now how quickly the attempted rape of Syria reoccurs).

Cui bono? Who benefits? NATO. Not Putin.

Does this necessarily mean that the MH17 shootdown was a false flag? No.

Could the MH17 shootdown have been an accident? Yes.

Does it look more like a NATO false flag when NATO/the U.S. rushes to judgement, or establishes "guilt" while avoiding/purging unanswered questions in their eventual "investigation"? Yes.

Russia's enemy is not the American people, it is the American government. Remember that.

The American government is as much the enemy of the American people, as the Russian government is to their own people.

Trust none of these fuckers.

I agree, but I don't make much of a distinction between the US and NATO; where one ends and the other begins, etc.

They certainly share common goals, but NATO is more a tool for whichever countries wish to use it to conduct overseas operations. We saw France heading a NATO-lead mission in Libya, a massive combined Saudi/Turkey/US/UK mission in Syria etc.

You know its possible that they had to use up too many war excuses with Iraq to be able to bomb that place that by the time that they destroyed Libya as well there just wasn't anything more to say that was believable.

Well, also the evil Russians stopping the wholesale destruction of yet one more civilization.

First off, friggin love the username, and thanks for the well thought out and sanely presented information. I think we lose sight of history all too often in cases like these where the blood goes straight to boiling leaving no room for rational discussion.

On that point, seeing as Russia taking the blame for this benefits nato greatly... how hard would it be to sneak into Russia and pull this off? I know it's practically a war zone these days, but I haven't heard of a resurgent Russian army so I'm assuming it's poor coverage at best. Given the US government's proclivity for "it never happened and you can't prove it" black-ops.... what's to stop us, or another like minded country from setting this up?

Granted, any rational being knows that poking the bear, and by extension China is blatantly insane... but you never know. I realize this sounds like a conspiracy theory and may be written off as such, but it was just a thought. Seeing as we have so little information, curiosity got the better of me.

Just look at all of the stories about bodies being dragged around, looted and the credit cards being canceled. They are all vague pieces that point to "reports", without citing these reports or naming anybody. Blatant propaganda that went into effect about five minutes after the shootdown. The Jew bankers hate Russia for not handing over their economy.

I'd like to learn more.

Forget Russia, how about the story of 'elite pedophiles' in Britain?

Guess what law was passed a few days before?

On July 10 the U.K. government introduced an emergency bill to provide law enforcers and intelligence agencies access to telecommunications data to help them investigate criminal activity.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2455860/uk-rushes-through-surveillance-bill-extending-data-retention-rules.html

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/16/un-commissioner-criticises-decision-fast-track-emergency-surveillance-bill

That was definitely planned to whip some public anger against pedophiles so their new laws would pass with little protest.

It'll help keep tabs on all those pesky whistleblowers so our governments can keep fucking kids in peace.

The child rape is a bonus for politicians, the real aim is to protect their money.

Just the usual thing that the socio/psycho-paths who tend to gain positions of power do for each other, it's as old as human civilization. The elite look after each other.

I watch both in my household. Comparing the reports is like night and day. That scares the hell out of me.

Exactly! When I watch the news, I like to switch around between RT, BBC, CNN and Al Jazeera.

I've noticed that RT and CNN focus on a different range of stories. When they both feature the same story, it's really educational to see how they each put their own different spin on the facts.

hmm, sound similar to when snowden appeared in the corporate media, of propaganda outlets (guardian and washington post) .... and a lovely 40 minute interview on NBC.

sounds like the snowden story was a modified limited hangout

he told us nothing new

instead... they told us old information that any aware person knew

in order to... PUT FEAR INTO

1) the people

2) journalists

3) potential- whistle-blowers

You know even if you and other users bred to spread this idea about limited hangouts is itself one, I applaud you for your persistence. Maybe you are a bot, or a group of many people, or one individual who thinks people need to consider the possibility. Whatever the case, I think it is a bit over the top, but welcome anyway.

You know even if you and other users bred to spread this idea about limited hangouts is itself one,

other users?

def not a bot, def not a shill,

its just i have limited time on here so ... im not guna spend time researching stuff or finding links to post, its spreading the idea of thinkin criticaLYYY

[deleted]

define smear campaign

Remember guys, Snowden released information that fucked up American tech enterprise worldwide and showed numerous backdoors in hardware, yet he is still an agent!

old info?

The Guardian is a propaganda outlet? Seriously?

entirely,,, same with bbc and rt and nbc

Gulf of Tonkin, Lusitania, "Remember the Maine". These "outrages" turn the populace into self-righteous mobs, hell-bent on revenge and war.

Forget the fact of EU/NATO expansionism up to Russia's borders. Forget EU/NATO war mongering in Syria, Georgia, Kosovo, Libya, and Iraq. Forget the lies you just learned were lies two minutes ago.

The rebels in Ukraine warned not to fly over their airspace. They've been taking out military aircraft on a regular basis. Those who are to blame are those who sent a civil airliner into a conflict zone, and this is not something under rebel control.

i posted this in another thread:

I post things like that and get stuck in the most pathetic debated with the sheep on my list.. I should delete them? Where are you people in real life..its so hard to find people in real life that think like us..and not exactly like us, or me. Just with an open mind and half a brain and that little burning flame in them that makes them want to know the truth.. but people care to much about their careers and staying ahead in rigged game of life

Welcome to the club, bud.

I think a lot of people are afraid of saying these things opening in real life because of the 'craziness' that's associated. When I have said some - shall we say - questioning opinions I have (not necessarily conspiracy related), I'm surprised how many people are on board with them.

Where does the US want to lead us, WW3, probably!

This is timed quite well with the general breakdown of the economy. The US already made the bullets and bombs during better times and now seeks a monumental distraction that also has the capability of squashing competitors - otherwise known as war.

Those bullets (.40cal hollowpoints) are illegal to use in warfare (not very practical either) However they're great at mowing down un-armored civilians.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

Also reported elsewhere, at the height of the Iraq War the Army was expending less than 6 million rounds a month. Therefore 1.6 billion rounds would be enough to sustain a hot war for 20+ years. In America.

So unless all of Mexico decides to jump the border, those bullets are probably destined for American civilians.

This is the gun that fires them: http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/ump_general.asp It's pretty much standard issue for every SWAT team in the west.

Well the bullets that the myriad federal agencies bought recently have our name on them but for this I was referring to the US having massive weapons caches for conventional warfare. China also started hoarding insane amounts of copper as well.

So I'm guessing the the hollow points don't work well in war because a flak jacket will stop them?

No, because its been declared a war crime since 1899 at the Hague convention. These bullets are illegal to use in international wars. They are allowed to legally use them on us. They cause significantly more damage and cause bigger wounds than using full metal jackets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet

Well at least they're cheaper. /s

In (modern) war, the point is to maim not kill. If you maim an enemy soldier, someone has to drag his wounded ass back to the medics. Now they're down two or three soldiers, and it only took 1 bullet.

Also, 40 S&W is a pistol round. Not very accurate beyond 100 yards.

That's the beauty of this, from their position. They can divide populations with this. Especially when those populations were forced together from the beginning. What's more profitable that two populations that hate each other? They can be exploited.

Thats been the goal from the beginning. to divide people so we can stand together to make the world a better place. We need to stop focusing on sides and focus on our countries involvement in the conflict.

We know.

We still won't do anything about it.

We're cowards.

What's to do?

If you're smart, you'll put your billions into the gold market.

Nothing i guess.

Sums up things pretty well atm. The problem is no one on either side of the conflict (Americans, Redditors, Russians) never bother to look and think objectively about things from the other side. They hear one thing (Propaganda) from the MSM and the run with it. Pretty sad

I dont believe russia is the bad guy they make them out to be any more.sure they have fucked up in the past and done some unsavory things but i think its changed days and the real bad guy is the american government

I think they both are the bad guy. But even saying that gets you downvoted.

they are both the bad guys, but we need to be focusing on getting our country to stop what they are doing here in the U.S. They dont belong creating conflicts in other countries.

They have been doing it that long the seem to think of thereselves as the world police. And I think that what there really after is complete control.

It's blindingly obvious in Australia at the moment. "Let's conduct a transparent investigation... but Putin is responsible, time for tough sanctions". 24/7. It just disgusts me how the deaths of those poor people are immediately politicized.

And I will counter argue the Russia love from conspiracy minded types. I remember the RT circle jerks. And it is all because it confirms your perspective (which I understand because hardly a news source would even look at anything that disagreed with the official version of things) But, Putin is still KGB and the KGB is just as bad as the CIA but worse because they are flying under the radar while everyone focuses on the CIA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4YtgA2jnu4

It's definitely possible that this was the russian backed ukrainian rebels mistaking the airliner for a military transport. The suspicious thing is that

1: they shouldn't have had a buk- can we prove that they do?

2: this works out really well for nato and we've seen this exact plan before to justify conflict escalation

3: the talking points are really loud and aimed at russia

Hey McCain just said the Kiev doesn't have this capability so they should have this capability. It kills two birds with one ZNN interview; First it purports that Kiev couldn't have done it and Second it proposes that more arms be shipped to them. I wonder how much of the population can even understand this if they were even to read a dissection of his position.

I agree that the talking points are loud and aimed at Russia. sort of reminiscent of Bin laden after 9-11. I am not exactly unhappy about that. Russia is a threat to the US. The cold war isn't really over and never really was.

In the 90's one of the major concerns was terrorists getting weapons from decaying Russian military bases. It is totally plausible that they had a buk.

The cries are in unison. The pressure is mounting. Russia will back off.

Now what to do about Israel and Palestine redux times infinity and ISIS.

Rebels captured a Ukrainian BUK system on July 9

the cold war was supposedly about russia being a militaristic threat and the spread of communism. Are you saying that the current threat is economic?

It seems like the current great game is about who can steal the most resources and who can sell and use the most weapons.

I don't want to live in a new world order dominated by russia or china, but I also don't understand why it is so important that ukraine be broken up and joined with the EU.

Well I'm not going to apologize for the Soviet Union but times change and I think that the West and US much in particular has yet to reach peak insanity and dysfunction, even though it seems quite bad. The Russians already went through this and their system collapsed and they had to regroup and to reflect on why things turned out so shitty. Americans haven't gone though this yet and has even yet to reach peak disillusionment. Americans are hardly even aware that their military is all around the world occupying numerous hostile regions and "allies". Its the empire that passes for something other than an empire. Its completely insane and twisted. The population at large is just not going to wise up voluntarily and the US elites are now trying to force a single choice onto the world instead of being able to present the more attractive option. The dollar has gone parabolic from excessive monetary printing and other world powers are moving away from it. Its "use it or lose it" time for the US military. There won't be gas in the tank in 5-10 years to even get over there yet alone threaten anyone.

Let us take a look at the word "seems". Where is this dysfunction? Besides what the media portrays. Have you witnessed it personally (beyond the DMV idiots?) Peak insanity? Where? Again have you witnessed this yourself or is this conclusion influenced by the screen or the press?

For too long the contrary opinions have been dismissed or squelched but now with the advent of the internet we can read all kinds of sources that agree with our thinking. It doesn't mean our conclusions are correct. It just merely means that the media has realized that there is an audience for alternative ideas. We need to be mindful of this trapping.

I'll make a quick list of dysfunction; the pills, obesity, narcissism, prisons and the wars. The vast majority of people are trying to ride it out and are just "hoping" that things get better.

I'm proposing that the peak insanity in the worst part of the population still hasn't hit yet because their world hasn't completely crashed around them in all ways. I think that is coming. After it goes to shit people will be very disillusioned with the system instead of merely dissatisfied.

if it gets to that point, panic will ensue. no one will organize because there are too many egos not willing to strategize. What will happen is they will be rounded up and put into prison but not before women get raped and the children get killed.

we are not Starving here. Most of us have roofs over our heads. Why would we fuck that up? better the devil we know than the devil we don't.

Sure so people are just going to ride it out and make very little change and the military and CIA will be trying to murder and bomb people who plan against using the dollar. There is the possibility in all off this that the US will actually be successful in squashing alternative currency systems and will further grip the world through all of this political intrigue. I predict though that the US will just become more obviously frothy looking trying to lock everything down and that enough people (in the rest of the world, leaders and otherwise) will have woken up to this that it will fail but not before a hell of a lot of chaos in Euroasia has ensued. Also common people don't need to be literally starving for society to become quite miserable. The vast majority of the people survived the collapse of the USSR but just ask them if that period of time was even tolerable at all. It sucked ass. The US is different though and it will be much better on the food front but far worse in violence and mental instability. You should look up some of the item comparisons of the collapse of the USSR to the future collapse of the USA when the dollar tanks. Neither is pretty at all. I'm from California and now am living in L'viv, Ukraine and I can see how it will be similar and also different in my home state when things fall to shit. If you are waiting for jackboots marching down your suburban street or tanks rolling around then you will miss out on seeing what a terrible shitty time is in store. I really don't know if it will be insane like Serbia or something crazy like that and I suspect not but really that is complete hell and even multiple steps better than that is just completely intolerable for the human psyche.

great post.

I bet the polish jews thought the same thing.

Or the CIA is worse because everyone knows that they are a criminal, unaccountable organization up to no good but no one does anything about it.

You shouldn't quote people without giving credit, but I dig your point. I think the problem is mainly that Russia has been the "bad guy" for so long that it's just really easy to dredge those emotions up even though obviously it's a very complicated country. I don't agree with everything Russian (such as banning Bitcoin), but I think anyone who has been paying attention for the last decade or so would have to admit that many of the world's problems could be solved by US-Russian cooperation.

Bitcoin is the one world currency in Beta form.

I know, it's awesome!

Ever heard of Tavistock? ;)

I have to disagree. I've seen more propaganda from the Russian government spread even on this very subreddit. It says something when I can tell where people are getting their misinformed information because I can trace the fabricated claims right back to Russia Today. An RT journalist even ragequit recently over the Russian government's plane crash propaganda (but you won't see that on the front page of reddit).

It's actually been comical to watch RT.com since the plane crash. For a solid 24 hours after the crash, the top story on RT.com read (paraphrasing here) "the Ukrainian government could have downed the plane. Now we're not saying they did, and we have no evidence they did, but it is totally possible they did."

This is the exact kind of logicl Glenn Beck is famous for using to brainwash.

Wow. If you think you have seen more Russian propaganda on reddit than Western then I think your brain is broken and cannot even recognize your side's propaganda anymore because you are swimming in it.

What claims did Western media outlets backed directly by a government entity make without any evidence?

Protip. Russia has exactly as much of a benefit if they did it and they pin it on the opposite sude.

I'd give Russia more credit to have done a better job if they did as you suggested.

The isssue is that, if russia did, the people manning the rocket launcher system would be the seperatists. Who just don't have the knowledge or skills required to do it properly. not to mention that RUSSIA and there forces have been the ones continually taking planes down around that area and on the border.

maybe next time don't immediately jump to your russophilia, and actually look at the situation objectively.

i am fully aware that ukraine could hace taken the plane down. pr russia. or phillipino terrorists aboard the plane, or aliens. id just rather look at all of the evidence without bringing my own beliefs in and ruining tye evidence to fit my beliefs.

The MH17 shootdown benefits NATO. It puts Putin in a corner. Putin will no longer be able to support the rebels without appearing to openly support terrorism when NATO/U.S. has finished their kangaroo "investigation" and concluded that the perps were the rebels. (Let's remember that less than one year ago, Putin stopped a U.S. bombing of Syria in the U.S. "WMD" rerun of the Iraq invasion. Let's watch and see now how quickly the attempted rape of Syria reoccurs).

Cui bono? Who benefits? NATO. Not Putin.

Does this necessarily mean that the MH17 shootdown was a false flag? No.

Could the MH17 shootdown have been an accident? Yes.

Does it look more like a NATO false flag when NATO/the U.S. rushes to judgement, or establishes "guilt" while avoiding/purging unanswered questions in their eventual "investigation"? Yes.

You know even if you and other users bred to spread this idea about limited hangouts is itself one,

other users?

def not a bot, def not a shill,

its just i have limited time on here so ... im not guna spend time researching stuff or finding links to post, its spreading the idea of thinkin criticaLYYY

old info?