I would say religions would be the oldest of all.

As it was discovered that fear was a good tool for oppression, control and manipulation of a mass of people, well laced with violence of course.

That's what I was gonna say.

Basically it started with whoever told Adam and eve that if they ate the fruit they would die.

I think egyptian and sumerian beliefs and zoroastrianism and various things predated abrahamic stuff long before that.

Not sure how much I subscribe to abrahamic religions being egyptian beliefs version 2.0 (although the similarities are glaring) but if we are saying 'religion' then we need to look FAR earlier than Judaism/whatever they called abrahmic religions when they started)

Agreed. At the least we should be looking into the Sumerian cultures and myths first. then we gotta find out who the fuck built gobekli Tepe. While we are at it, puma punky, teotihuacan, and all the other magnificent megaliths, as these possibly predate even the sumerians.

Also, I do not believe the Egyptians built the pyramids or the sphynx. I won't claim that aliens built them, either, though of course I'm interested in that theory as well.

Basically, my favorite stuff is about alternative explanations to history, as in our creation, oldest civilizations, religions, etc. I feel the beginning of conspiracies fall somewhere within these parameters.

I actually have a feeling that human civilization is much much older than we accept today. As in tens of thousands of years of civilized human presence (not just Hunter/gatherers). And, of course, this is known by some esoteric groups who vie for the suppression of this knowledge. (Speculation alert!)

Basically it started with whoever told Adam and eve that if they ate the fruit they would die.

No it started with who ever told people that story.

That is a religious story meant to show us not to sin again!

Maybe it wasn't a story? Maybe something like it happened, and got skewed while travelling the proverbial grapevine?

Anything is possible.

My believes on it are..You will find out when you find out. Until then live your life and treat others as you would yourself.

But to me the bible and other religious texts where stories to get the population under control. Even had a great conversation with the leader of a Hindu/Buddhist Temple near me, where he opened up and said he felt (and others) that the stories are ways of telling people to do the right thing. He used the examples of the way they pray (stand, kneel, bow and repeat) which is basically stretching/excise, the reason they take their shoes of is not to show respect but because the ground outside is dirty and should not be tracked inside, and the last one he used was how they do not eat certain foods as they are unhealthy for you. Back when these things where started you couldn't use science as an reason why, but some all seeing figure could get you to do them.

Well, I've always felt that the religious myths throughout all the different cultures in history all say essentially the same thing. For instance, there is something like over two thousand flood myths (if I remember correctly). And they all essentially say the same thing, even though the cultures were seperated by vast distances and supposedly never had contact with the other cultures.

So, either history has the latter part wrong, or the former is the result of real incidents observed by people who had a limited vocabulary (compared to English) and a limited means of recording and disseminating the facts surrounding the incidents.

But, that's just me. Yours is certainly possible too...

O do not get me wrong, I am not saying every part of the story would not be true to some extent.

I do not doubt all parts of it specially the parts that all match up. But the practice of using historical events or current ones in a story are and have been used for a very long time.

Some of these religions also have conflicts with other religions. Such as monotheistic or polytheistic.

Understood. I guess we agree on that then haha.

I always thought the story was about taking Soma/Psychedelics and raising the Kundalini snake up your CNS

I think conspiracies have existed since before history. History is actually rich with conspirators, connivers, plots and coups.

I'm not really a follower of the 'grand conspiracy' thing, so someone else can answer that aspect.

e2a: not to say there aren't some grand conspirators existing now, but they are mere blips. As are we all.

Understood..I'm just trying to understand when "conspiracy theories" began and what was the first documented case in human existence..We had a ton from the 19th-21st centuries...But I just want to know when it began bc I am very curious...And Yes I would believe religion would probably be one of the oldest of all...But then again, you have people who believe in Ancient Aliens and doomsday...I think they would also be amongst the oldest, as well. I'm just trying to learn more about when and how it began to become a conspiracy theory, as we know it today.

Sure...it's a fucking interesting question.

I 'think' ancient aliens is a pretty modern concept, but prophecy is very old.

Listen I'm asking for some help and trying to learn...I only mentioned Ancient Aliens(bc a lot of people believe in it) is a modern concept, and I do believe that the prophecy is older. All I came here to do is ask a question and trying to see if anyone really knows and could give me a good link that I could read more about it. Or even help me out showing me the right direction to look in.

Yeah I dunno dude, I am brought to mind of some stuff I read about 'conspiracy' amongst aztec tribes, 'skinwalkers' and stuff - but that's more standard ancient civilisations being massive bastards to each other than a conspiracy in a wider sense. (there was a good podcast on askhistorians some time back about it, worth a look).

I think another user probably knows better than me though, cheers for posting an interesting question though. Sorry I couldnt be more help.

thanks

Do you have a link? Bc I would like to hear it...I couldn't find it

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/podcast

episode 03 I think (or 04 or 05) was when they talked about a 'skinwalker' and tribal conspiracies.

(they've produced a lot of episodes since I last checked. Time to update my mp3 player!)

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Pretty sure /u/kfarr87 isnt going to 'brigade' the askhistorians wiki page but thanks for the heads up. automoderm8r ;)

No I just asked the same question...that was it

haha sorry man, I've got this silly habit of replying to bots on /r/conspiracy wasn't claiming you were gonna do anything :D

ok thank you

Can you elaborate on that "grand conspiracy" thing?I have an idea of what you mean, but I'd rather let you tell me than to assume I already know...

Well this is going to be massively wrong and just one badly repeated summary of one flavour of a grand conspiracy. But, for example, some believe the Templar Knights of the christian crusades in err the 11th century, never really dispersed and that freemasonry and other secret societies spawned from this collective - who as time went on became immensely powerful and came to become the hidden dictators of the modern world.

(bear in mind this is probably very wrong particularly date-wise)

That's what I mean by a grand conspiracy.

There's others though, more esoteric ones, like ancient alien style stuff or stuff about forgotten civilizations (Nazca lines) and unexplainable things from even pre-history eras.

Sorry I'm not very definitive in my answers, I really like that stuff but I'm more of a 'corrupt 20th century politics' guy than a 'illuminati' type. But I'm in no position to discredit people with different views.

I actually really like the ancient alien stuff, and I generally view conspiracy theories from that perspective. But, possibly more uniquely so.

For instance, if the ancient aliens stuff was true, I could posit that ever since they left humans had a sense of abandonment. They needed to fill the hole, and the result of such attempts became religion and thus the conspiracies we see today. (This was a terribly abridged version, btw).

But, I do feel like many of the topics discussed here are related. I can't see how each is happening without being interconnected, purposely, somehow.

Yeh, I mean - I consider the 'ancient aliens' premise in a panspermia or (figuratively) like a 2001 sort of thing and consider that not a conspiracy but just like a genuine concept to explain life on earth/higher cognitive function respectively.

When it comes to actual interaction with otherworldly beings and heiroglyphs depicting it or whatever then I get a bit skeptical.

But my skepticism is very much, 'well I'm not sure - but tell me more about it' than 'fuck off mate, that's bollocks'. Which I think is healthy.

As for interconnectedness, I sort of feel a connectedness of a lot of disparate topics mentioned here.

I think my main joy of the interconnectedness of the topics on this sub is that when you ignore the trolls and pisstakers, this is one of the most empathic subs on reddit - definitely the most given it's size and particular challenges of people always taking the piss.

You guys are alright :)

Haha yea, once you weed out the trolls it's a nice place. I remember conversing with you like a year ago almost, or sometime this past winter, and have saved you as a friend to reflect that back then. I do that with people I have pleasant discussions with.

So consider yourself alright as well.

Oh, and to address your skepticism (albeit rather open minded), it certainly is healthy imo. I am skeptical even of my favorite theories (like the ancient astronaut theories). I can't even admit that I truely believe them. I want to, but I can't. I am vastly fascinated by it, but I can't admit subcribin g my beliefs to them.

I actually don't believe many of the theories discussed here, but I enjoy reading about them and learning, and I take everything with a grain of salt and an ounce of compassion for hearing others explain their beliefs. It's entertaining and interesting.

Thanks :) Do you have a favourite documentary or article you suggest I should watch?

Uh, shit. I'll do some digging. I don't save my browser history at all, which is a pain in the ass. I also don't watch YouTube videos much at all, so anything I would be able to offer would be reading material.

I'll go ahead and find some for ya tomorrow (it's about bedtime for me and I know this is gonna be a decent endeavour). Oh, but first, about which topic were you referring?

Oh cool, yeah no rush :)

Well, you said about mysteries of ancient constructions and stuff.. something on that topic would be cool!

Cool. Should be easy cuz that's one of my favorites. Be forewarned though, I'll probably have several links for ya tomorrow that each have lots of info. Also, I have some books that I've read independently from the internet sources that have been very informative as well.

TL;DR I hope you like to read! =-P

Bring it on!!! :D

First, here are the books I have read:

The Earth chronicles by Zechariah sitchin

• A volume of twelve books, he goes into depth about the annunaki per the ancient Sumerian tablets and stuff.

• There were giants upon the earth is another good read by sitchin. Also, check out his website, www.sitchin.com, and check out the link on the left of that page called Articles, it takes you to a page that has some things he has written for his website.

Slave Species of the Gods by Michael tellinger

• This is a fantastic read, and explains the annunaki and how and why they created us.

Uriels Machine by rober lomas and Christopher Knight, two freemasons who also wrote the Hiram key where they explain the freemasons as much as they can without breaking their oath.

• In uriels machine, they explain how certain megaliths like Stonehenge were actually calendars that tracked the Sun, moon, and Venus, to keep track of time more accurately than the Gregorian calendar we use today. It was also useful in find the suns inclination and this the latitude they are on, which is important for agricultural reasons. This book also touches on the megalithic yard and how they used 366° in a circle rather than 360°. It's very informative.

Also, check out Erich von daniken. I'd start with Chariots of the Gods first and then move on to his later books. Also very informative.

Another author includes Phillip coppens with his book The Ancient Alien Question.

Also, Graham Hancock has written several books on this subject and he is pretty good as well.

This amounts to well over twenty books on this subject, and they are all fascinating. there are some others as well, but these were my favorite.

Btw, this is the second time I have written this much up, as I accidentally hit the back button earlier and lost a huge wall of text. Nonetheless, this will be useful for any pertinent books that you might like to read. In a little bit I'll respond back with some links about online articles and maybe a video or two... But this should be good for starters.

Oh, and check out Wikipedia's articles about the annunaki. That's a good starting place too.

The annunaki is important in these theories, and with a little bit of analysis you can see how plausible the theories are (at least when compared to the major organized religions which encompasses the beliefs of billions of people today...)

Again, I'll respond back soon with some more links and stuff.

Thanks very much :) Looks like I have some reading to do!

Haha no problem! Some of those books I'm sure you can get off the internet for free, if you know how.

But yea, I'm still frustrated from losing that wall of text that had a bunch of links in it, but I'll retype it up in a little bit. My apologies.

Oh! I forgot, another book called "Everything you know is wrong" by Lloyd pye. It talks a lot about Bigfoot and the evidence for them, as well as positting that the annunaki actually used Bigfoot (or some other extinct hominid) as a template for our creation by splicing their genes with the hominids genes.

It am so discusses the problems with the current understanding of evolution. He argues that macroevolution (evolution of one species into an entirely different species) is wrong and unsubstantiated. He says that humans aren't the only ones with a missing link, virtually all species, according to pye, have missing links. He does admit that microevolution (small variances within a species, for instance, the bill shape and function of finches on Galapagos) is certainly substantiated.

When I read this book, it reminded me of one of the other books I listed above about how humans have something like 223 genes that are not found anywhere else in the animal kingdom, with evidence that these genes arose literally out of nowhere and at the same time, which cannot be explained by the current theory of evolution.

There is also research done on human mitochondria DNA (mDNA) and the human y chromosome that indicates a single common ancestor, one female and one male respectively, amongst all humans, and those two lived approximately 200,000 years ago. I find that these facts or conclusions support the ancient alien theory, but not exclusively.

Again, I'll get around to typing up a list of links...

The biggest conspiracy is the manipulation of the human race throughout history by extra terrestrials. http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html

Thanks, I'll check into that...

The first clergyman was the first rascal who met the first fool. ~ Voltaire

more

The Roman orator named Cicero exposed a plot that set to have the city burned to the ground. He was almost assassinated for his role in exposing the plotters, and his success earned him the title of Pater Patriae.

The question you are asking, I believe, is wrong. There have always been conspiracies. Crimes committed by an organized group of people are as likely (if not more likely) to happen than crimes committed by one single person.

Given that, the question becomes, when did the suggestion of "conspiracy theories" become associated with people who were suffering some mental instability? When did it become advantageous to those in power to render the term "conspiracy theorist" as pejorative?

I would guess it began when, despite attempts at the concealment of conspiracies committed at high levels (ones which would cause a upheaval in government) or any misdirection applied to growing suspicions started to become less effective (likely as a result of improved mass communication by radio, television, and now the internet enabling more efficient dissemination of conspiracy suppositions and discussion).

At that point, when you cannot hide the facts as easily, and communication makes propaganda less effective, then, the next step is to figure out a way to stop the discussion before it starts. This is what I think happened with the "tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist" archetype.

That way, anyone who might think there is reason to believe a crime may have involved an elaborate series of events, substantial deception, and multiple high level parties involved...that person will stop himself.

He'll think.... "nah...what am I saying? That's crazy talk".

I know it wanst probably the best question. I was on Wikipedia that some journal came out with the proper name of conspiracy theory in 1900.And since then we've had thousands of conapiracies. But really all I want to do is pin pont the first documented case and trace it and learn how conspiracy theories have evolutionized from the first to the ones from today. But I do believe there are others before the proper name of conspiracy theory that came out in 1909.

Sure...it's a fucking interesting question.

I 'think' ancient aliens is a pretty modern concept, but prophecy is very old.

Oh cool, yeah no rush :)

Well, you said about mysteries of ancient constructions and stuff.. something on that topic would be cool!